Tricks of the Trade

[Swamprat]

We use to have a "Forum" "Before the terriorist Crash"...named "Tricks of the Trade". A Forum, not a Tread.

I'd like to think the "Powers that be", might add "Tricks of the Trade" as a Forum. We'll see. It was cool then....It would be cool now.

Anyway...
One of the "Tricks" I use to do...if ya want to call it that,...

My Hardhat,

...I always had a chin strap on it.
Always.

Most times it was tucked up over the bill, cause I didn't need it to keep my Hardhat on, less there were high winds, or I was workin a Transmission Tower, which thank god was rare...

I use to use my Chinstrap to clip about 3 extra Cotter keys on it.

As a Distribution Lineman...You're GONNA drop cotter keys.

If ya drop one...Not a problem. Ya got a spare, right there. And...ya ain't got to wait on your grunt for 15 min. to be huntin thru the grass for the one ya dropped.

Matter of fact....he don't even need to know ya dropped it.

"Tricks of the Trade"

[Lizzy Borden]

Put a folder clip on the talk key on your company radio so you can not accidently play everything you say over the air.

[LostArt]

Put a folder clip on the talk key on your company radio so you can not accidently play everything you say over the air.

LMAO! I can only imagine what Ms. Lizzy can say. Heh. Too funny.

[CenterPointEX]

The ratchiting handle on a set of isolaters is actually one of them there rodeo wrenches ya pay a hundred dollars for if ya buy one. But I'm sure no one is gonna take one from greed.

[Linemo]

My trick of the trade is to always have a rope sling in your bucket it will get you out of more binds than superglue well it least it has for me cause its the best extra set of hands you have

[Swamprat]

Yup. Always had one of those too.

Somethin else I always had in my bucket was a set of 6 ft. Snatch Blocks. "Comealongs".

They ain't used much anymore, what with the hot hoist's and all. But when ya need a quick grip and tug on somethin...They ARE the ticket. AND, they're light and portable. Also carried a Bulldog grip, but I think they are outlawed nowdays.

Ya probably had to be brought up with Snatch Blocks, to understand how great a tool they are.

[loodvig]

Ya know Swamp, you n I think alot a like! Although I hate to admit it! LOL
I too like a set of 6' comies with a bulldog grip. The new guys make up comies to extend way out to almost 25' ! Way too much rope for me! And a bulldog grip will fit about anything! Ya ever see the leather strap comies that Halls Equipment sells? A nice setup also.

[Swamprat]

"Ya ever see the leather strap comies that Halls Equipment sells? A nice setup also."

Nope, never seen leather ones man. Got a link where I can get a look at em?

The "comies" I carried had the Duckbill block on the pullin end. Makes for Real quick SECURE Lockoff of the rope. AND a one handed unlock of the rope.

25 Feet??? What the HELL are they pullin with that??? :-) :-)

[Linemo]

Swamprat the set I have on my bucket are 25-30 feet long and they are great when you need em I used them the other day transfering triplex from the second story of a house to a new mast riser on an addition without having to let the service down across the road by myself !! But I am going to get me a short pair just like you use for those times you just need a little bit of rope!!

[Swamprat]

" I have on my bucket are 25-30 feet long and they are great when you need em I used them the other day transfering triplex from the second story of a house to a new mast riser on an addition without having to let the service down across the road by myself !! "

I can dig on that.
If you're workin by yourself.

I can definately see a use for snatch blocks that long if you're workin by yourself on somethin like that. And, especially on "dead" stuff. Cool.

Keep a set of 6 footers around too man.

[loodvig]

http://www.hallssafety.com/

they are under blocks n tackel, only they are nylon now a days.

[Swamprat]

"they are under blocks n tackel, only they are nylon now a days."

Yeah man..Them are the puppies!.
Thanks for the link Lood. Damn good Link. Good stuff for linemen on that site.

Ya can still put whatever rope ya want in your blocks. They may come with nylon but...I'm pretty sure ya can just buy the Blocks, and braid em up yourself, with your rope.

[will]

I;m a old groundman and my trick is to cut little hole in my glove to send up splitbolts,cotter keys,copper sleeves and all the little things dropped off the pole.Can;t teach the young guns where to put the handline when on a pole they hang it at there feet.Lord help us . LOL

[Swamprat]

How "Old" Will? Your profile don't say...
Neat "Trick".

Been usin that trick since....oh....at least 72.

Actually, I started cuttin round holes in my Kuntz gauntlets, so I could hook em on the #6 copper hard drawn J hook, I had attached to my D ring. Made it easy to store my Leathers, when I needed to put my rubbers on.

Then, when I wanted some "bugs" (split bolts, Kerneys), or Staples....I'd just throw my glove down, as a "mini basket" and say..."Put em in here and send it back up. Glad to see an "old Groundman's" still around and teachin the New Linemen....It's a bitch, ain't it? When the groundman is smarter than the "Lineman".

How many of you "Linemen" have had your grounman send you up connectors....twisted in the handline.....

Good "Trick" Will.
Course nowdays, the grunts just use the "Tool Bag"....

"Where have all the Linemen gone....."

[spur]

When cutting in a inline dead end [hot with gloves] to sectionalize a peice of line, turn the shoe upside down to put the nuts on saves going to the tool tray or calling down to the grunt for dropped nuts.

work safe or not at all spur

[Swamprat]

Yup Mr.Spur, Good "Trick" man.

Just cause the shoe is pointed down...don't mean it needs to be REPLACED that way.

"Tricks", are what make linework...easier. Takes..."Thinkin" bout linework while you're doin it... to find and make "Tricks".

I always tried to Build the pole I was workin on....thinkin about the Lineman that came behind me to replace it.

[toptie]

years ago when I was working for corn tractors and we had to drive rods to achieve a reading of 25 mega ohms or 5 rods which ever came first, we used to hold a 3/4 head hex nut to the end of the first rod as we set it on the ground. The nut being slightly bigger than the 5/8 rod made driving ever how many rods you were driving easy, since all you were actually driving was the nut its self. From the contractors stand point we were achieving the goal, but in reality the ground wasn't as good because less surface of the rods was actually touching earth. That is the difference between quality work and contractor UNIT work.

[polehiker]

Back in 63 when I started, an old lineman showed me to get an old solid rubber ball (soft) and stick all the groundwire nails and clips in it. That way you pull out a nail and clip each time without digging in your ditty bag among all the other junk (Split bolts,scrap wire ends, etc.) If he was an old Lineman in 63, just think how old this trick of the trade is. LOL

[doug]

I Use This Sometimes When Troubleshoting A Line For A Temp Opening.i Put A Wrap On Both End Off The Bells And Wrap Them On To The Wire.then Cut The Wire In The Middle And Bend Tails Up .no Hoist Need For Now.works Great Off The Wood Or In A Bucket.the Line Is Grd And Dead.be Safe.

[lightningrod]

Sounds like a neat trick there Polehiker, think I'll borrow one off my boys sponge road hockey balls and give it a try.

[Linemo]

Swamprat you just hit on something that is in need of me getting up on my soapbox and talking about!!! To all lineman and apprentices listen and always make this your number one priority when you are building any type of line work remember to build everything like you were in your hooks !Why you ask if you turn all your hot line clamps toward the pole when you have to climb it you wont be cussing because its turned away from the pole and make you do something you shouldnot have to in the first place !It only takes a minute to look down and see that maybe if you turned the the cutout a little it would make it a little better for when you cant get your bucket there just like running underground cables up the pole look up from the ground first and see where you would have to be to do the work in your hooks and move it to another spot leaving the good climbing spot open!! Sorry for rambling on but if we all worked this way it will make it better when someone else has to come back{maybe you} and climb it and the first thing he sees is it was built out of a bucket and its damn near impossible for him to do out of his tools!!!

[Swamprat]

Yeah Mo,
I started Linework in 69. Learned shit as I got older and progressed in Linework.

I can remember I was taught...."When hangin a single crossarm, off hooks on the pole...Put the bolt in...from the back of the pole, leave 6" stickin out. Take your hammer, and smack the bolt till it bends...then drive it into the pole. That way, when ya hang your crossarm, the bolt won't move."

Also was taught, in the same senerio...to put your bolt in from the back, then take a staple, and "wedge" the bolt in from the front.

Took a year or so....but I learned to just put the bolt in and hang the crossarm.

Those...weren't "good Tricks". However...seein those bad "tricks", and many more... also taught me to watch out for them in later years, when doin changeouts.

Found quite a few in later years. AND...they were a pain in the Ass.
I could go into "Pal Nuts, Strippin threads, Z Tricks on secondary"....but I'll just say this.

Build a pole...for the NEXT Lineman that's gonna work on it. There's a "Trick" for ya.

[farky]

man that sure is a lost art there. thinking about the next guy till some nite in a hell of a rain u have to climb up and low and behold the sorry sob that short cutted his work and now u gotta work ur ass off because of him.teach the new guys to think about the next guy it may be you.

[lightningrod]

man that sure is a lost art there. thinking about the next guy till some nite in a hell of a rain u have to climb up and low and behold the sorry sob that short cutted his work and now u gotta work ur ass off because of him.teach the new guys to think about the next guy it may be you.

Couldn't have been better stated Farky, I do the work right the first time as I might be back up there again if I didn't.

[will]

Hey Swamprat started linework in june of 77,i work on bucket truck with two lineman now almost 23 yrs. Was digger derrick operater for 5 yrs. Love to watch young guns work on the ground so funny ,like seeing myself years ago.The work has come a long way. My frist foreman was old school started in the late forty,s had to walk the line with him.

[DuFuss]

One thing that can be helpful if you don't wear a chin strap on your hard hat is a piece of number 6 copper bent to form a hook. You can hang this in your toolboard and hang carter keys on it. Make it longer and you can hang nuts on it that come off your deadend shoes or 3 angle shoes.

Your lineman ratchet will come in handy when you are needing to bend some half inch guy wire. Just take the short tail that was left and pry it out with your flat head and slip your wrench over it with the small hole down. Now you can get some leverage to bend it out and bond your guys. This is probally violating some saftey rule as it is improper use of a tool, but we don't do that sort of thing do we? (Myself? I bought my tools to use.)

This tool is simple. It is just a twelve inch by half inch bolt. I wrap tape around it a the head for a thicker grip. Countless times I have used it to drive out old bolts, tighten hotline clamps or remove Jhooks. Countless times I have seen people use a 5/8" bolt to remove another 5/8" bolt only to have to remove the one they drove in. Bolt was free, tape was free. This is probally violating some saftey rule as it is a makeshift tool, but we don't do that sort of thing do we?

This tool is handy for removing staples, straightening squares and removing carter keys. You will probally drop the carter key so keep some extras. I only use it for that when I am trying to remove one that I is difficult to get with my hand or difficult to get to with my kliens once the hand fails me. (Square Cleves.) Tool reads ENDERES E5 5/8.

[CenterPointEX]

Found quite a few in later years. AND...they were a pain in the Ass.
Reminds me of my fourteen years on nights... Many a cold rainy night when I was out der by my lonesome, I'd refuse a switch, n when I'd close it, it'd drop open... I discovered if'n ya held it up der just barely open you could draw a small arc N weld the barrel to the switch... Probably some of em out der still holdin... Later when one of em did drop back open I knew to dodge that order til daylight.
From all dem years of trouble shootin URD drops, I put another pain in the gazoo out der for the enjoyment of future trouble men... When you are diggin lookin fer the drops ya gotta stop N figure out which ones ya have as you come to a set of wires... When hookin up new services we started markin the wire wit colored tape... So I'd take the excess ya cut off, mark it wit tape... lay it in the trench just below the surface with the ends barely stuck up under the transformer pad... Right when a fella stuck his shovel in the ground he would think he knicked the drops... I just imagine their faces when they discover after ten min's of careful diggin that it is a fake set of drops... There is thousands of em out der that way...

[Swollen Tongue]

When jackstrapping a small conductor to the insulator, don't use your good bulldogs. Use a service catchoff. Troublemen never get their grips back from the line crews.

[Swamprat]

When jackstrapping a small conductor to the insulator, don't use your good bulldogs. Use a service catchoff. Troublemen never get their grips back from the line crews.

Man....THAT's a "Tricks of the Trade".!! :-)

"Grip? What Grip?
...shit...I never saw any Grip on that line...." :-) :-)

[LINETRASH]

Time to share some knowledge with you guys.

Ever reconductor an existing line, complete with pole change-outs? Yeah. I thought so.

Here is one of the tricks from up my sleeve.

I have seen many men struggle with the effort of transfering a transformer from one pole to another.

I have seen guy rig two hoists. or a set of blocks, drop the tx to the ground, then pull it up the new pole.

Bah Humbug!

Generally the new pole is taller. Rig a tx gin off that pole (after the primary has been tranferred). Cut the old pole just above the tx.

Next. get a strain on the tx from a hoist rigged off the new pole.

Then, tie off a tag line to the grunts, who love to pull things, to the tx.

Call for the chain saw! Cut the old pole just below the tx, using a snap cut.

Get the grunt to get a strain on the tx against how it's going to swing.

Snap the pole, let the grunt ease off the tag. The tx, still bolted to a small section of pole will gently swing into position on the new pole .

Just back off the tx bolts from the small old pole section, remove it, and throw it at a grunt.

Jack the tx into position on the new pole and...well I hope you can take it from here.

I've got a million of 'em.

A rigging fool.

Linetrash :cool:

[spur]

a small but useful trick. When installing a bridle guy on a two pole structure, after your pole buddy has his on his pole take the guy wire put it over your belt stretch it to were it should go bend it and install a preform [only with a couple of wraps incase you have to re do it] at the bend. Make sure that the bolt for the guy hook is not tight and install the preform as you tighten up the guy hook it will tighen up the bridle make sure the nut is on the outside makes it easier to tighten.
work safe or not at all Spur

[stratcat]

Hey linefriends,

I've been reading the forums for quite sometime and have really enjoyed them. Thought I would share this trick with everyone. With URD wire, such as 1/0, remove the jacket and wrap the end of the concentric just enough that it will fit in the end of your cordless drill. Tighten down the drill and drill forward. It tightens the concentric tight and fast. Works really well.

P.S. This is my first posting, hope I went about it right.

Stratcat

[pole splinter]

Hey guys,
We get alot of real hard cca (green poles) now at our utility.It can be a real pain to drive date nails,copper ground wire staples,and underground shield lags into these things they call cca poles.I have gotten into the habit of spraying wd-40 on these things before you drive them in with your hammer.
We do this on new construction/dead work only.
On a new roll of tri-plex the end of the wire has two rubber caps on the hot legs,these are nice to slip on temporarily to some tri-plex up on the pole were you have cut the hot jumpers and the customer is doing an upgrade and you will be back later in the day to hook ' em back up,saves a little time and aggravation with tape while on hooks.They fit nice on the handles of channel locks on your belt so you can grab them easy to.3/0 underground wire caps fit real well on your sidecut/dikes handles to , seems to give them a better feel with rubber gloves on to,plus you can easily find your sidecuts when everybody's tools are mixed up on the ground. :)

[Stanman, at ComEdy Il.]

Easy one, some don't know about! Got a M.F. nut or pal nut twisted on tight? Loosen 3 turns off regular nut, then turn your lineman's wrench upsidedown, place on bolt, and hit with your hammer! Presto, the nut is staight again, and will come off with your fingers! :D

[MAVERICK]

How 'bout this one guys.

Ever have those pain in the ass pole butts that broke at ground level? You know, the ones that you have to dig down about 18 inches, wrap a chain around it and if you are lucky the chain might grab. If your chain slips, try cutting a notch in the butt with a chain saw giving the chain something to grab or try hammering a ground rod through the center of the butt, grab the ground rod with a little mule grip and pick that with your winch.

Works for me!!!

[Apples]

How about this Maverick. Position your truck so an outrigger is over the ground level pole butt. Press that sucker down about 3,4 inches and cover with dirt,go to lunch. I sure miss the old days!!!

[polehiker]

Brings back memories Apples. Did a few that way myself.I also pulled a few with the ground rod trick too. Glad to see a few of the old tricks of the trade are still around. Bet these young'uns still push one down now and then too.

[DuFuss]

So that's the reason we hit a pole in the ground when we do a changeout... :)

I like to use some hardheads. I drive them in around the side and put a choker cable on it. Sometimes I put the auger on the ground and just yank it out. If it's rotten then it doesn't work so well.

[bull]

I have found that if you drive a pipe of about 1 1/2' diameter about 2-3 ft into the butt and hook your pole chain around the pipe you can pull it right out. The local rea I work with just has some scraps of ridgid pipe and we leave them in the pole.

[Koga]

Ever fight trying to get a line hose on say 4/0 or 750 on any size really.A little glove dust sprinkled in the crack sure makes it slide on alot easier.

Dont come down the same way you went up
Koga

[Swamprat]

I use to carry a plastic bottle of baby powder, and just sprinkle some in the guts once or twice a week. :-) Needless to say, gloves too.

[Linemo]

Another trick on your hoses,guts pigs etc {whatever else you call em} is when you get your new ones to look for the ones with the longer lips on the bottom open side they go on so much better !Just in case you dont understand look at your hoses and if you have two different types try them and you will feel the difference but if you dont glove dust will be your best friend

[Linemo]

Just remembered this after reading a post by Koga about purple cuff URD elbows being a pain here is a little trick when installing the probe if you look at the probe from the white poly end you will notice where the poly meets the metal load carrying part that there are two dimples on them just find the dimple closest to the threads and this lines up with the hole in the probe where your installation tool fits remember this and you will never have to look inside elbows again to try to line them up it will always work

[LINETRASH]

Tied in with a guy once, I did'nt know about glove dust on the line hose.

This guy dusted all his hose.

I went to slap on a gut .

Sucker was mid-span before I knew it.

[lineman641]

glove dust works good but doesn't last ,try a silicone rag you use to wipe down sticks . works good and lasts a little longer than dust

[PAPA]

Baby powder works real well also.

[Port]

Be careful with baby powder, some of it contains
aluminum, which can create a problem.

[Swamprat]

Be careful with baby powder, some of it contains
aluminum, which can create a problem.

I swear,
I was just sittin back, waitin for a post like that. :-) :-)
Thanks for not dissapointing me. :-)

[PAPA]

Thanks SWAMPRAT.

Been yousing baby powder for 40 yrs.Never had a problem yet.
But I guess the next Generation Lineman see things We DIDN'T.

[Swamprat]

Thanks SWAMPRAT.

Been yousing baby powder for 40 yrs.Never had a problem yet.
But I guess the next Generation Lineman see things We DIDN'T.

Don't ya think all that aluminum in there just might scratch the poor baby's little butt Papa? :-) :-) :-)

[Three]

Don't ya think all that aluminum in there just might scratch the poor baby's little butt Papa? :-) :-) :-)
Probably not, since there's aluminum in most antacids.

We've started using a silicone spray. Works 1000% better than powder. Just be sure to wait a min or two after spraying. The can says the gas is very flamable, so I don't think you want to put em on right away.
Just have your grunt swing them over his head like a helicopter for a little while.That ought to get enough air through them (plus it'll be fun to watch).

[Swamprat]

We've started using a silicone spray. Works 1000% better than powder. Just be sure to wait a min or two after spraying. The can says the gas is very flamable, so I don't think you want to put em on right away.
Just have your grunt swing them over his head like a helicopter for a little while.That ought to get enough air through them (plus it'll be fun to watch).

Sounds cool....

What's the name of "a silicon spray" you're usin that's better than Baby powder.

I mean shit, ya tell us somethin is better, but ya don't tell us what it is!

1000% better? Spread the knowledge man. What it it?

I'll still go with Baby Powder.....
It smells good too.

[Three]

I'll get the name for you tommorow.
You should rub some of that baby powder on your ass. It'll help your chaffing, and it smells good!:-)

[Koga]

Gold Bond medicated powder in the drawers every morning during the summer heat stops it. ;)
Dont come down the same way ya went up
Koga

[Swamprat]

I'll get the name for you tommorow.
You should rub some of that baby powder on your ass. It'll help your chaffing, and it smells good!:-)

Way ahead of ya man.....:-) :-)

[lightningrod]

After we wash our rubber it is coated with a silicone liquid and then put on racks to dry, about the time the silicone is wore off its about time to wash again anyway so we don't have to reapply in the field.

[Swamprat]

That's pretty cool LRod.

Just wonder how that silicon spray would work down here in the Swamps of Florida. 98 degrees, 85% humidity and shit. :-)
I'm thinkin it would run right out of the sleeve! :-)

I still like Baby powder...and ya smell good too! :-) :-)

[otpig2]

I use silicone spray
CRC, electrical grade silicone
Made by chemtrac same company that makes cable clean
works great and when the hoses start to stick its about time for a bath anyhow


work safe
otpig2

[Swamprat]

I use silicone spray
CRC, electrical grade silicone
Made by chemtrac same company that makes cable clean
works great and when the hoses start to stick its about time for a bath anyhow

That's cool man.
Noticed you're from the NW. You don't get much 98 degree weather up there, let alone...90% humidity.

Wonderin if any of the "boys" down in the south have used, or are usin that silicon spray? Would like to hear from them, and their take.

"Baby Powder"...Johnson and Johnson. :-)

[pike rat]

That's cool man.
Noticed you're from the NW. You don't get much 98 degree weather up there, let alone...90% humidity.

Wonderin if any of the "boys" down in the south have used, or are usin that silicon spray? Would like to hear from them, and their take.

"Baby Powder"...Johnson and Johnson. :-)
HEY SWAMP used silicon for sometime now works great .10 times better than power

[Swamprat]

HEY SWAMP used silicon for sometime now works great .10 times better than power

Ok, ok...So I'm "Old school"...

Ya still don't smell as good as I did!!! :-)

[dbrown20]

Salisbury puts out some called Salco I believe. dbrown20

[Swamprat]

I use to cut a round hole in my Kuntz line gloves, on the corner of the gauntlet...bout half an inch round.

Use to make it real easy to "store" em, on the "J", piece of #6 copper, Hard drawn, I had attached to my right D ring. Course ya can't do "improvised" shit like that no more. GOD Forbid!! That THING hangin off your belt might get CAUGHT on something! ;-0

That hole was also real neat for just throwin your glove down on the ground and havin the grunt put staples or kerney's or squeeze on's in it. Made it real easy to send up on the handline with the hole in the gauntlet.

"OLD"...."tricks of the trade".

[LINETRASH]

back when I climbed day in, day out, Your idea would have been helpful.

I was all the time looking for a place to stick my leathers,

your is a good idea.

But now, we have available these really cool plastic spring clips which I use regularly.

They are a diver's item, with a large clip for the guantlet of you gloves, and a smaller clip for wherever, belt, pocket, etc.

I now have one attached to my ear muffs, for when I am ready to try a questionable blown tx.

I roll up on a tx, blown, and "arm" myself, clipping my leathers and my earmuffs to my pocket, and putting kleins, channel locks, fuse, and finally, my beutiful extendo, of which I have used so much that I have developed rather large shoulder muscles.

Aww, all kidding aside, let me tell you, I love my job. ;)

[Swamprat]

back when I climbed day in, day out, Your idea would have been helpful.
Aww, all kidding aside, let me tell you, I love my job. ;)


"all grown up with kids and bills" :-) :-) Ya think so? :-)
Naw....
Ya never grow up. You're always still a "Kid"....BUT...ya just ain't got TIME to PLAY, cause of all the Grown up shit ya got to deal with!!! :-)

"Back when I climbed day in, day out"
COMEON man! :-) You're 20 years younger than me! :-)

Anyway.....Thank you sir. It was somethin I did, and served me well, with many uses, in my "number" of years in Linework. "A little #6 hard drawn copper on my right D ring....helped me out MANY times."

[oldokie]

How about your groundmen having your tap rod made up all you have to do is twist it on. How about using a 12" ground rod for a bolt driver. Using a hot tap
to twist your armor rod on works great on angel shoes in hot work.

[Saline]

"all grown up with kids and bills" :-) :-) Ya think so? :-)
Naw....
Ya never grow up. You're always still a "Kid"....BUT...ya just ain't got TIME to PLAY, cause of all the Grown up shit ya got to deal with!!! :-)

"Back when I climbed day in, day out"
COMEON man! :-) You're 20 years younger than me! :-)

Anyway.....Thank you sir. It was somethin I did, and served me well, with many uses, in my "number" of years in Linework. "A little #6 hard drawn copper on my right D ring....helped me out MANY times."

I got caught with the same trick. A #8 hard drawn copper hook attached to the D ring: clipped in on it one day and nearly saw St Peter. I then changed it to the back loop.

[Swamprat]

I got caught with the same trick. A #8 hard drawn copper hook attached to the D ring: clipped in on it one day and nearly saw St Peter. I then changed it to the back loop.

:-) :-)

Well Saline...
The first few days ya use a "New trick"...ya gotta get USE to it! :-)

I got my hook, hung up in phone lines climbin up sometimes, but then I got use to it bein there, and just flipped it up before I started to climb.

That damn hook was one of my best assets in climbin Linework, seriously.

You wouldn't believe what I hung off my belt from that piece of #6 copper.
Everything from wrenchs, connectors, gloves, switches, LA's, Lunch!,...

It was a real "mainstay" for me in Linework. But...That was "Back in the Day".....believe it or not, I've even hung a Jewelery Arm on that hook a couple of times. Ya gotta set your right hook REAL good though!

For you youngens...a "Jewelery arm" is the arm on a set of doubles, that has all the DA bolts and the through bolt in it...

"Back in the day..." :-)

[Tsplice]

While your burning burgers,sizzling steaks,and hoisting hotdogs.I would just like to remind everyone.to put down the beer for a moment and HUG your kids and KISS the wife and above all,HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY---- HAPPY 4th of JULY!!!!Tsplice

[meathlab]

skin towards your chum not your thumb

[meathlab]

skin towards your chum not your thumbprior proper preperation prevents piss poor performance providing people participate properly

[Koga]

on a H structure on transmission. Always stabb your side first and then yell "I got mine"! Pisses the other guy off everytime. :D

[Swamprat]

on a H structure on transmission. Always stabb your side first and then yell "I got mine"! Pisses the other guy off everytime. :D

YUP! :-)

I ain't worked much Transmission, but I learend that!...On the WRONG end! My hole was off bout 2 inches....shit.

Ended up just drillin another one.

I've pretty much just stayed with Distribution Linework, the rest of my Linelife, after my "short stint" with Transmission.

Got nothin but respect for Transmission Linemen. There's different "breeds" of Men in Linework, and different aspects of Linework.

Transmission Linemen, in my opinion....are pretty much, "Top of the food chain", in the Linework Ladder. Union or non. Don't matter.

Ya'll some tough MF's.

[Swamprat]

I;m a old groundman and my trick is to cut little hole in my glove to send up splitbolts,cotter keys,copper sleeves and all the little things dropped off the pole.Can;t teach the young guns where to put the handline when on a pole they hang it at there feet.Lord help us . LOL

Damn will, that's pretty cool.

I'm an "Old Lineman"...been sendin my kuntz glove, with in hole in the gauntlet down to my GROUNDMAN, since about ...Oh..."71".

How "Old" a groundman are ya man?

[LINETRASH]

Well, I'll tell ya, swamper,

I have known many linemen.

Your story of sending material via a set of kuntz rings a bell.

A friend of mine recounts a true story:

Larry Joe, a drinker, was up a pole drilling, when he discovered a nest in the pole.

Larry, being a good soul, gently gathered the 3 newborn chicks, plus nest into his glove bag.

He yelled to the grunt: "Be carefull with these baby birds"

At which point he hurled the glove bag to the ground!

It's true!

Some things you ca'nt make up!

["little beaver"]

For you Transmission Linemen, Have you ever heard of 'Striker Arms'? Possibly you used different terminolgy. Just curious!

["little beaver"]

The above was what we used to catch the timbers when we were framing H-structures with a chopper. We would drill the holes and mount steel brackets ie 'striker arms'. The chopper would fly the timbers in with the insulator strings tied up to the timbers and drop the timbers onto the 'striker arms'. There would be two linemen on each pole. We would then manuever the arms into position and drive the through bolts. We would use a 3/4 chain jack to slide the timbers into position.

The chopper of choice was the Bell 205 which of course is the civ version of the UH-1H (Huey).

[Swamprat]

The above was what we used to catch the timbers when we were framing H-structures with a chopper. We would drill the holes and mount steel brackets ie 'striker arms'. The chopper would fly the timbers in with the insulator strings tied up to the timbers and drop the timbers onto the 'striker arms'. There would be two linemen on each pole. We would then manuever the arms into position and drive the through bolts. We would use a 3/4 chain jack to slide the timbers into position.

The chopper of choice was the Bell 205 which of course is the civ version of the UH-1H (Huey).

That's cooler than shit Beaver.

Like I said man...I'm a "Distribution puke".
Tower work like that......THAT is some cool shit man!

Quite beyond me. Even in my younger days. My mentality was..."lower to the ground"...so to speak. :-) I'm a real Bad ass...up to about 60 Foot! :-)

Different "Types" of Lineman..:-)

["little beaver"]

Hey Swamp, You would be right in there with the rest of us. It's all part of the 'Brotherhood'!!

Yea, it was COOL! The lead Linemen, on one of the poles, he has a headset and he is talking to the pilot. The Foremen was Sam K from Rivers, Manitoba, and he is hanging half out on the skids spoting for the pilot.

We got D-Time for working under the chopper. At the pre-job one thing they made absolutely clear, if there is any kind of a failure with the 'ship' they will dropping the load regardless. Where we used this was usually at a river xing. There was lots of strange updrafts etc. Our best pilot was a Viet Vet by the name of Bob B. He is still flying here for one of the Oil Co's. He flies the 206 (Jet Ranger) now, his 205 (Huey) days are now behind him!

[onetime]

This will help you get through the day.Better than sleeping!

[Outlaw Lineman]

Take an old tire (15 or 16 inch) and cut out the bead. Then you put that big coil of guy wire in it BRFORE you cut the bands, now you have a reuseable guy basket. An old tramp showed me that one.

[Swamprat]

Take an old tire (15 or 16 inch) and cut out the bead. Then you put that big coil of guy wire in it BRFORE you cut the bands, now you have a reuseable guy basket. An old tramp showed me that one.

Yup.
Actually, after takin out the bead, we use to cut the tire straight thru. Made it easier to put the coil of guy wire in. Ya could just wrap the "tire" AROUND the guy wire. We then, would use some soft drawn #6 to put the tire back together. New roll of guy wire? Undo the #6 copper, put the new roll in, and re do the #6.

Pull that guy wire right out of the middle of the tire. Measure it and cut it off. Sweet.

I wonder if that's still "Allowed" now days....

[dooghi]

Yea we still use an old tire. It was here before me and that was 13 years ago I believe it was the first trie ever made.

[dbrown20]

Old set of tire chains works also. The tire method is tried and true. Think I saw one once using a car rim mounted on the back of a truck. Didn't look to close at it and don't remember how it worked. dbrown20

[LINETRASH]

Now they got prefab guy baskets.

I have made 'em myself out of #6 copper.

First thing I ever used is a shovel handle.

That's one of the funiest images I can think of, a grunt all wrapped up in a guy wire hairball.

I bet most of you have seen this happen.

[igloo64]

MY TRICK IS TO DO THE WORK MYSELF SO I KNOW ME AND MY POLEBUDDY HAVE DONE IT RIGHT ! HATE TAKING JOBS OVER FROM OTHER CREWS AND HEARING THAT FAMOUS PHRASE " GOT IT ALL SET UP FOR YA OR EVERYTHING IS READY ! ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG ! USUALLY MEANS TROUBLE AND TO WATCH OUR ASSES ! :eek:

[Swamprat]

Yea we still use an old tire. It was here before me and that was 13 years ago I believe it was the first trie ever made.

Heh, heh, heh....

That's the way I felt about the tire I used back in 69. The damn thing was so "handled" it was glass smooth on the outside. It actually "shined" like polished black glass. :-)

I use to love puttin a roll of guy wire in that tire....closin up the tire and cuttin the bands on the guywire. Neat to watch. Especially when ya cut the last band.

[Buckeye Hand]

Hey Maverick,

You ever put a monkey face under your chain to pull that butt or drive
a ground rod down the center , it pops right out!

[HighPotter]

"You ever put a monkey face under your chain to pull that butt or drive
a ground rod down the center , it pops right out!"


Can someone please explain this a little better?

I've heard the "drive a ground rod in the butt to yank it out"...and I can't get my head around this.....

Does it work on poles that are sheared off flush..?

Or do ya have to have a stub ?

And how the hell does drivin a ground rod in the butt help?


I think I'm gettin dumber as I get older...



HP

[Swamprat]

"You ever put a monkey face under your chain to pull that butt or drive
a ground rod down the center , it pops right out!"


Can someone please explain this a little better?

I've heard the "drive a ground rod in the butt to yank it out"...and I can't get my head around this.....

Does it work on poles that are sheared off flush..?

Or do ya have to have a stub ?

And how the hell does drivin a ground rod in the butt help?


I think I'm gettin dumber as I get older...HP

Me too. I want to hear this one. Hay....Live and learn. :-)

[oldokie]

Yes driving a ground rod in a pole that is broken off will work must have good
meat left for it to work we drive it about 4 feet in or more don't go all the way
through use a good bull dog grip an chain to pull it out only had two that
wouldn't pull

[Squizzy]

Must try that ground rod trick one day,if the poles snap off at ground level we often leave them and put the new one next to it. Or there is drill a couple of holes eighter side dig abit round the side and choke the chain on and pull out.On stubborn poles a shake side to side with the crane is good followed by some good hits with a large sledge hammer when the crane and pole puller have the tension on.........

[Swamprat]

Yes driving a ground rod in a pole that is broken off will work must have good
meat left for it to work we drive it about 4 feet in or more don't go all the way
through use a good bull dog grip an chain to pull it out only had two that
wouldn't pull

Interesting Oldokie....actually, never run into a old pole we couldn't get out of the ground. I'm talkin Distribution man.
Have seen a couple poles that were so "rotten" that they just weren't worth tryin to bring up. BUT....never run into a solid Butt....I couldn't get out of the ground. Never used a groundrod either. Used a Lag screw a couple of times though...

[oldokie]

I used lag also but when you need to go back in the same hole the ground
rod works great Iam talking about when pole is broke a ground most poles
will have some good meat in them make sure you put the rod there it will drive
somewhat hard if you get in the good part of the pole

[igloo64]

ANYONE EVER PUT A GROUND ROD THROUGH YOUR HAND? HURTS LIKE HELL! LET THE AP DO IT ! blakely your still a ompa lompa clone

["little beaver"]

I was on a 60KV Transmission rebuild in 1970. It was 5 miles long we changed a number of poles, changed all the wire from #2 Cu to 556 Al, and changed all the Xarms and glass to clamp top. We had no digger truck, back hoe etc.
We did everything with a JD 450 Crawler. We had an old A-Frame Truck ( we didn't set any poles with it) that we used to haul the poles and pull in the wire with the Take-up reel. In one place we had to re-route the line around a slide and we set a 65' pole. How did we do it?

[dbrown20]

Dollied it up and pulled in the new with the old wire.

Oh, you mean how did you set the pole, or what? Stood it up with the cat using tag ropes and then tied it off and pushed rocks and dirt around the butt until it was safely backfilled. dbrown20

["little beaver"]

We would dig the holes by hand just in front of the existing pole. To make it go a little faster, we would drive a hole down the center of the hole with a 'Johnson bar' and tamp in 1/3 of a stick of 40% 'ditching dynamite'.

We would hang a shive on the old pole about X-arm high and use a butt block as well. Then use the winch off the 450 JD to raise the new pole. In one place, we had to re-route the line down a steep hill using a 65' pole. So we first set a 30' pole using pike poles and then we 'ginned' the 65 in with the 30', again using the JD Crawler. We had side lines on the 65 with planks in the hole etc.

As you mentioned, we pulled the new wire in with the old using the take up reel that attached to the bed winch on the Line Truck.

The Foreman was Charlie Willete and two of his boys and his nephew started on this job and I believe that they are all still in the business. Charlie was a very good Foreman. The guy who operated the JD went on to become a successful road and bridge contractor and is VERY well off today.

It was near to a Ski area and we had a cabin up in the hills. It was a great summer. We were all 'unattached' and 'fancy free'. There was something about the 'old days' that wasn't so bad after all!!

[garey]

ever heard of dillardsmith

[DuFuss]

Sorry I didn't look back and see who posted this but thanks. I used their method of removing a gimped up locknut by putting my lineman wrench on backwards and hitting the other side with my hammer. Worked like a charm. After that I just backed it off with my fingers.


Some things that help me out of binds a lot you may want to keep in your bucket.

Hot hoist and at least 3 grips. A long sling rope. 3 or 4 shackles. Never know when you'll drop pins or need an inch to make something fit.

Another thing that you could get yourself in the habit of is when putting on guts put one on one way and the other with the head turned the same direction. I've seen a lot of guys put guts on with both heads turned into the insulator and then realizing later that they needed to move the phase when they didn't expect it starting out and make it difficult to cover it for themselves.

[LINETRASH]

Here's one:

If you have a stubburn pal nut that is stuck, here are two cures:

D.A Bolt in a wood pole: put your screwdriver against the palnut.

Take your hammer and knock the shit out of the screwdriver.

This deforms the pal nut and makes it loose as a goose.

Bolt on any steel structure or steel xarm:

Take your cresent wrench and over tighten the shit out of the pal nut against the nut, this also deforms the palnut, making it easy to remove.

Far as a DA bolt in the pole, I have also driven the bolt out right through the palnut. Also easy.

I got a million of 'em!

[xsuperv]

We use to have a "Forum" "Before the terriorist Crash"...named "Tricks of the Trade". A Forum, not a Tread.

I'd like to think the "Powers that be", might add "Tricks of the Trade" as a Forum. We'll see. It was cool then....It would be cool now.

Anyway...
One of the "Tricks" I use to do...if ya want to call it that,...

My Hardhat,

...I always had a chin strap on it.
Always.

Most times it was tucked up over the bill, cause I didn't need it to keep my Hardhat on, less there were high winds, or I was workin a Transmission Tower, which thank god was rare...

I use to use my Chinstrap to clip about 3 extra Cotter keys on it.

As a Distribution Lineman...You're GONNA drop cotter keys.

If ya drop one...Not a problem. Ya got a spare, right there. And...ya ain't got to wait on your grunt for 15 min. to be huntin thru the grass for the one ya dropped.

Matter of fact....he don't even need to know ya dropped it.

"Tricks of the Trade"
THE COLORADO SPRINGS TROUBLEMANS JOB. IN THE ADD IT STATES THAT THE LINEMAN CAN GET UP TO 11% OF THERE PAY FOR THERE PERFORMENCE IS A LIE. IF YOU TALK TO ANY OF THERE PEOPLE YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT KNOWONE HAS EVER RECIEVED ANYTHING OVER ABOUT 3.5 TO4.5%. ALSO IT IS A REAL SCREWED UP COMPANY WITH THERE POLICIES ANT THERE PROCEEDERS. YOU PRACTALY HAVE TO ASK THERE CONTROL CENTER TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. LINEMAN THERE DON'T HAVE TO THINK, THE CONTROL ROOM DOES IT ALL. THEY HAVE NO TRAINING OR ANY REFRESSER FOR THE TRADE WHAT SO EVER. I WOULD ADVISE ANYONE LOOKING AT THAT JOB TO TALK TO THE LINEMAN THERE BEFORE YOU TAKE THE JOB, THEY CAN'T KEEP EXPERENCED HELP AND HAVE HAD GOOD HELP LEAVE.

[OLE' SORE KNEES]

THE COLORADO SPRINGS TROUBLEMANS JOB. IN THE ADD IT STATES THAT THE LINEMAN CAN GET UP TO 11% OF THERE PAY FOR THERE PERFORMENCE IS A LIE. IF YOU TALK TO ANY OF THERE PEOPLE YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT KNOWONE HAS EVER RECIEVED ANYTHING OVER ABOUT 3.5 TO4.5%. ALSO IT IS A REAL SCREWED UP COMPANY WITH THERE POLICIES ANT THERE PROCEEDERS. YOU PRACTALY HAVE TO ASK THERE CONTROL CENTER TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. LINEMAN THERE DON'T HAVE TO THINK, THE CONTROL ROOM DOES IT ALL. THEY HAVE NO TRAINING OR ANY REFRESSER FOR THE TRADE WHAT SO EVER. I WOULD ADVISE ANYONE LOOKING AT THAT JOB TO TALK TO THE LINEMAN THERE BEFORE YOU TAKE THE JOB, THEY CAN'T KEEP EXPERENCED HELP AND HAVE HAD GOOD HELP LEAVE.

Only the best tuna need apply............take it to BS column,this is tricks of the trade...how ya been Swamp?Have'nt talked in a while,hurricanes keeping me hopping $$ :)

[Swamprat]

how ya been Swamp?Have'nt talked in a while,hurricanes keeping me hopping $$ :)

I hear ya man...."make it while the Makin's good!" :-) Doin Great, thanks.
I'll drop ya a PM, and we'll "shoot the shit". :-)

[Swamprat]

THE COLORADO SPRINGS TROUBLEMANS JOB. IN THE ADD IT STATES THAT THE LINEMAN CAN GET UP TO 11% OF THERE PAY FOR THERE PERFORMENCE IS A LIE. IF YOU TALK TO ANY OF THERE PEOPLE YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT KNOWONE HAS EVER RECIEVED ANYTHING OVER ABOUT 3.5 TO4.5%. ALSO IT IS A REAL SCREWED UP COMPANY WITH THERE POLICIES ANT THERE PROCEEDERS. YOU PRACTALY HAVE TO ASK THERE CONTROL CENTER TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. LINEMAN THERE DON'T HAVE TO THINK, THE CONTROL ROOM DOES IT ALL. THEY HAVE NO TRAINING OR ANY REFRESSER FOR THE TRADE WHAT SO EVER. I WOULD ADVISE ANYONE LOOKING AT THAT JOB TO TALK TO THE LINEMAN THERE BEFORE YOU TAKE THE JOB, THEY CAN'T KEEP EXPERENCED HELP AND HAVE HAD GOOD HELP LEAVE.

Hummmmm...

Don't quiet "get" your post,....

This is "Tricks of the Trade" forum. Anyway Sir, Welcome. It's always good to have new Linemen sign on and talk.

[Swamprat]

Anybody ever pulled a "Z Trick" on open wire secondary?

It's an "Old day" thing, sorta like open wire secondary. :-) :-)

[toptie]

OSHA would have a field day. But in the hills of West Virginia when I worked for AEP , I put out a can fire with a can of oarange paint. Color had shit to do with it, but the can had blown its top and was on fire and had been burning for bout an hour. I took a can of orange paint and tied it to the end fo 35 foot telesocipic stick with # 6 alum. tie wire and got as close as I could with in the tele con bucket that I could, then held the paint can over the burning xformer. When the can exploded the blast blew out the fire by blowing awawy the oxygen. Then after it cooled we changed it out. Easy overtime that night.

[markwho]

Yes Swamprat I have used that trick a couple of times, we call them storm z or Rube Goldberg , where that name came from I have no idea. I have mostly used them on open wire services #6 or #4 cu. Most of our secondaries are #2 cu. or larger so we usually tke the time to resag properly. Mark

[Linemo]

Swamp you got me scratchin my head with this Z open wire thing please explain!!

[LINETRASH]

I believe swamper may be descibing a method of sagging open wire secondary.

You tighten up sloppy copper secondary by twisting a "z" into it with your kleins.

I have done this myself, with pole grounds and sec.

That what you meant, Swamper?

[JD426H]

"You tighten up sloppy copper secondary by twisting a "z" into it with your kleins."

That's it......but you gotta do it to both legs so the voltage doesn't get to the other end faster on the one that ain't bent! ;)

[thrasher]

When I started out in the business a lineman tried teling me the Z was a poor mans lightning arresster because lightning didn't like to turn corners.

[Swamprat]

Yes Swamprat I have used that trick a couple of times, we call them storm z or Rube Goldberg , where that name came from I have no idea. I have mostly used them on open wire services #6 or #4 cu. Most of our secondaries are #2 cu. or larger so we usually tke the time to resag properly. Mark

That's exactly it. You and Trash been around a bit. :-) :-)
Damn sure wouldn't do it nowdays! It does really look like crap, but it works. We use to do it like ya said, on #6 & 4 copper 3 wire. Sometimes all 3, but most times, just the bottom phase to get it a couple extra inches out of the tree it was settin on fire.

Nowdays, don't run into much 3 wire copper. Don't break my heart at ALL either!!!

Also doin it on the pole grounds too, when ya got one that's flappin around. Put some z's in it and staple it back. Beats breakin the ground and bringin out the Nico. :-) I WILL still do that!!! :-)

[riverhog14]

Yeah, ive seen the Z twist alot in grounding guy wires together.

[halfpint]

Is there anywhere in Florida a young apprentice can get his foot in the door?

[old horseman]

An old narrowback taught me this trick one nite on storm. I couldn't get into a pad mount, cause I had misplaced my five sided socket and it was to tight to loosen with my needle nose. This gnarled old narrowback came over with a short piece of 3/4" emt pipe and used my hammer to drive it on :rolleyes: the bolt. A good hard twist with a set of channel locks and walla I was in the can. Coulda lied to you guys and told you I figured it out but credit goes where credit is due even if it is a narrowback!!!!! :rolleyes:

[loodvig]

Beats breakin the ground and bringin out the Nico. :-)

Wow, now there's a name I've forgot about! The old 'Nico press'.

[edski104]

got one in my linebag right now. used it today as a matter of fact,on some #6 primary,on a #4 neutral,and some #2 hot legs. just another day here. :)

[Swamprat]

Is there anywhere in Florida a young apprentice can get his foot in the door?

Pike Electric. Drop me a PM, and I'll give ya number of a man you can call.

[DuFuss]

I have one. I haven't used one in 5 years though. They come in handy when places get stingy with the automatics.

EDIT: They also come in handy when you can't get enough copper for a bug. Just pop that sleeve in there.

[toptie]

All the years working in the trade, there were several poles I help blow down with an air compresser and a blow-pipe. It was always a slow go, crimping the air hose and giving the quick short blast of air only to have pole only fall an inch or three at a time. One day another lineman new on the crew taught me about venting the hole. Make you a score mark up from the butt of the pole to mark desired depth, then cut you a piece of 2" pvc a about a 45 degree angle or better to make it sharp for gouging into the soil as you are blowing with the blow pipe. Find the pocket of air and the sand will shoot out like a rooster tail and the pole will fall almost faster than you want it to. :)

[Swamprat]

Ain't really much of a "trick",
But it saves a hell of alot of walkin sometimes. I carry a set of pretty high power Binoculars ALL the time. They're actually the Zoom Kind. So If, I'm under a pole and lookin at a cutout...they still work, yet I can zoom em in and I can check out a lateral....8-9 spans.

Just reciently, had a lateral fuse blown.
Set up at the lateral to refuse.

When a Lateral fuse blows..."somethin" caused it. Took my "big eyes", and looked down the lateral. 6 spans down, spotted the vine infested trans pole with the door hangin. Refused the lateral, and got most of the people back on. Then went down and devined the pole and put that switch back in.

Saved me some "runnin the Line" time, and got the majority of the people back on a bit faster.

Binoculars.
They're not good for all situations, but alot of times, they save ya some legwork. The lateral I was talkin about, was 10 spans, road access, not many trees. Good view.

Ya gotta know when to use binoculars too.
I consider it a "Tool of the Trade". I carry my own.

[659Lineman]

Not really a trick, but reading about capturing guy wire reminded me of my first day as an apprentice. Seems 2 of the yards foremen were feuding. Really hated each other. I saw one put a new coil of 5/16 guy wire in the cab of the other foreman's pickup, then cut the bands and slamed the door. Luckly my foreman was the culprit, so I didn't end up cleaning that mess up.

[659Lineman]

Here's a trick I use. When you get a new "kid" on the crew, cut the hook off the hand line and FORCE him to learn knot's. This new generation just kills me. I never thought I'd be the old guy. And I'm 35.

[dbrown20]

Here's a trick I use. When you get a new "kid" on the crew, cut the hook off the hand line and FORCE him to learn knot's. This new generation just kills me. I never thought I'd be the old guy. And I'm 35.

Worked for a rat contractor once who didn't use hooks in their handline. Just had a loop in one end and used a sheet bend to tie the 2 ends together. dbrown20

[JDbGruntin]

Heya,
My trick of the trade thusfar has been keeping a roll of super 88 tape pushed onto the size adjustment knob on the back of my hard hat. Dont know why it is, but for some reason tape is one of those things that is a pain in the but to find and you gotta have it!

[spur]

Here's a trick I use. When you get a new "kid" on the crew, cut the hook off the hand line and FORCE him to learn knot's. This new generation just kills me. I never thought I'd be the old guy. And I'm 35.
This is not a trick just curious you said that you use a hook in the hand line? what type of hook is it metal or plastic? we weave a loop in our hand line on both ends of our hand line. Something the apprentice has to know because the journeyman will get him to make up a couple of hand lines just to make sure he knows how.
Work safe or not at all spur

[old lineman]

We used to have to dig all of our pole holes by hand. Shows my age.
Anyway anyone faced with this task knows what a pain it is when you have to set a pole in a swamp.
We used to get the pole upright with ropes using the old pole. I mean the pole was literally sitting on top of the ground.
We would then push a pipe (about 2.5") into the muck about 6-7 '. There was another pipe inside of it (about 2") we'd pull the inside pipe out and drop a stick of dynamite into the hole. We'd then pull out the bigger pipe and set off the dynamite.
Down goes the pole about 7 feet. No muss, no fuss.
Down side! We broke about 5' off the top one day. That's why they make saws.
In the middle of the swamp--- a blind man would be happy to see it.
The Old Lineman

[sickupnfedofComed]

I keep 3 sets of rope blocks(we call them jack straps) on the truck. The 25 footers are great for putting up wire that breaks midspan. Simply stretch them out, attach to wire on the ground and start taking them up. The wire pulls tight and takes itself up to the lineman waiting in the bucket.

[Swamprat]

Here's a trick I use. When you get a new "kid" on the crew, cut the hook off the hand line and FORCE him to learn knot's. This new generation just kills me. I never thought I'd be the old guy. And I'm 35.

Knots?

You ain't an old guy yet man.

Handlines, the hooks and clips, are Braided.

Teach him to brade rope. That's a diein art too, in Linework. Knots my ass.

Now, let's start again. "Cut the hook off the handline"....and teach him to BRADE in a new one...... You know how to brade a handline?

[Swamprat]

This is not a trick just curious you said that you use a hook in the hand line? what type of hook is it metal or plastic? we weave a loop in our hand line on both ends of our hand line. Something the apprentice has to know because the journeyman will get him to make up a couple of hand lines just to make sure he knows how.
Work safe or not at all spur

You guys are scarin me...and so are your "journeyemn". THIS is a handline hook man. AND it's Braided into the handline. I ain't believin this shit......

[Swamprat]

Give me a few days Spur....I'm off for a few days....

I'll post ya a picture of a LINEMANS handline. Complete with an adjustable becky, if ya know what that is.

Knots in handlines?....what's this Trade comin to? Pretty sad when ya see questions like this, and...Knots in handlines.

Can I get a little help here from some Journeymen?

[659Lineman]

Whoa, hold on a minute. I cut out the hook, short splice the handline so its an endless rope. Then teach the ap how to send stuff up without having to haul the hook down to himself every time. You know, a grunt knot. That way, the lineman just grabs the bolt or whatever is sent up, the ap tugs on the line and it falls free of the bolt or whatever. Lineman isn't wasting time trying to get stuff off the handline. After the kid can run it properly, he is taught to braid a hook back in. Trust me, I know my knots and splices. Short, long, eye, back. I've even tackled a monkey's fist before. Don't think I could do one with out a book now though! Becky? Ya I know that one too. Started out when I was 18 on the 500 KV lines out here in the West.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Give me a few days Spur....I'm off for a few days....

I'll post ya a picture of a LINEMANS handline. Complete with an adjustable becky, if ya know what that is.

Knots in handlines?....what's this Trade comin to? Pretty sad when ya see questions like this, and...Knots in handlines.

Can I get a little help here from some Journeymen?

Seems to me he's talking about a slip knot Swamp......

[spur]

Give me a few days Spur....I'm off for a few days....

I'll post ya a picture of a LINEMANS handline. Complete with an adjustable becky, if ya know what that is.

Knots in handlines?....what's this Trade comin to? Pretty sad when ya see questions like this, and...Knots in handlines.

Can I get a little help here from some Journeymen?
Swamprat the pic of that hook is used on a running handline with a small snatch block and hook attached to it, We use it on larger poles. The hand lines I was talikng about are coiled up and brought up with you on you'r belt the lineman lowers it when he needs something and he pulls it up much more mobile. Having a hook on this style of hand line would be more in the way than anything else.Do you want a pic of that?
spur

[Swamprat]

Whoa, hold on a minute. I cut out the hook, short splice the handline so its an endless rope. Then teach the ap how to send stuff up without having to haul the hook down to himself every time. You know, a grunt knot. That way, the lineman just grabs the bolt or whatever is sent up, the ap tugs on the line and it falls free of the bolt or whatever. Lineman isn't wasting time trying to get stuff off the handline. After the kid can run it properly, he is taught to braid a hook back in. Trust me, I know my knots and splices. Short, long, eye, back. I've even tackled a monkey's fist before. Don't think I could do one with out a book now though! Becky? Ya I know that one too. Started out when I was 18 on the 500 KV lines out here in the West.

Yeah, I use to be able to do a Monkey fist too. The last one I made, the crew cut it off, and attached a "clip" to it, and saved it. That was...a "few" years back. I'll be damned If I could make one today. "Ya don't use it, ya loose it" type of things. Shit.

Actually Spur...I've never seen or carried the type of "Handline" You're talkin bout man. I don't carry somethin "coiled up" on my belt.

When I go up a pole, I throw out my handline, hook it to my belt and climb the pole. I'm a Distribution Lineman Spur. My Handline is my lifeline to the ground, AND my Lifeline If I get hurt. 1/2 inch line...55 Ft., expandable becky on the block.

To me Spur....It's a standard Distribution Lineman's handline. I been usin the same thing for 37 years...It ain't changed.

" The hand lines I was talikng about are coiled up and brought up with you on you'r belt the lineman lowers it when he needs something and he pulls it up much more mobile."

Hummmm...
My groundman pulls up what I need. You're workin a different type of linework than I am Spur. I don't pull up the stuff I need.

I'm not sure I EVEN want to know......

[Swamprat]

Seems to me he's talking about a slip knot Swamp......

I don't think so Labor.

"The hand lines I was talikng about are coiled up and brought up with you on you'r belt the lineman lowers it when he needs something and he pulls it up much more mobile."

[T-Saw]

Well Swamprat, I'm not tryin to start any fueds or anything, but , my foreman and linemen did distribution linework for 30 some odd years and they rarely used an endless handline. When I started with the company I was kind of in shock that they just used a piece of rope with an eye braided into each end , and called it a handline. They just carried it up on their belts , same as Spur was describing. I offered to get out the endless , with the adjustable becky and haul stuff up to them , but they said they liked doing it their way just as well. So now fast forward 12 years , and I do it basically the same way as they do. It works just fine,and as near as I can tell, all the guys I'm working with are pretty dang fine journeymen. It 's all what you get used to I guess, and of course the amount of hook work you do. I know that we don't do near as much as they used to . Almost everything is designed now to be bucket accesible ( or buried, then you don't need a bucket or hooks LOL, but that's a whole 'nother issue). Occasionally we would hang a small sheeve and run a few things up, but they would very very rarely , break out what I considered to be a true handline , like you are describing. Well I believe I've rambled on enough, just had to throw my 2 cents in.

Just out of curiosity , do you hang a line if you're working out of a bucket? We have some guys that will, but most just go up and down to get stuff.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I don't think so Labor.

"The hand lines I was talikng about are coiled up and brought up with you on you'r belt the lineman lowers it when he needs something and he pulls it up much more mobile."

I didnt see that post! I gotta go back and check!

[edski104]

i've done distribution and transmission and both usually will use a handline like swampy and myself use. i've gotten away from using it after i hang it if i'm in a bucket, because it's faster to go down and get the,lets justs say,a cut out ,from the grunt ,who has a hard enough time trying to figure out his name,let alone how to hook up a cut-out so i can get it off the line easy.but most places do use handlines with hooks and you need to know how to use them for the rodeo,too.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Well Swamprat, I'm not tryin to start any fueds or anything, but , my foreman and linemen did distribution linework for 30 some odd years and they rarely used an endless handline. When I started with the company I was kind of in shock that they just used a piece of rope with an eye braided into each end , and called it a handline. They just carried it up on their belts , same as Spur was describing. I offered to get out the endless , with the adjustable becky and haul stuff up to them , but they said they liked doing it their way just as well. So now fast forward 12 years , and I do it basically the same way as they do. It works just fine,and as near as I can tell, all the guys I'm working with are pretty dang fine journeymen. It 's all what you get used to I guess, and of course the amount of hook work you do. I know that we don't do near as much as they used to . Almost everything is designed now to be bucket accesible ( or buried, then you don't need a bucket or hooks LOL, but that's a whole 'nother issue). Occasionally we would hang a small sheeve and run a few things up, but they would very very rarely , break out what I considered to be a true handline , like you are describing. Well I believe I've rambled on enough, just had to throw my 2 cents in.

Just out of curiosity , do you hang a line if you're working out of a bucket? We have some guys that will, but most just go up and down to get stuff.


Let me get this "straight". You carry a coil of rope up when ya climb. When ya need something ya drop the end and pull it up to yourself. Ive been in this business 34 years, what the hell does the grunt do? My ground man is there to get the equipment to me, I must be missing something. How long is the "straight line"? Thats what I call the rope. I have to be missing something...how would you rescue a hurt man?

[LINEHAND]

Have used the method described many times when there is more poles to be worked than there are handlines. Just tie a rope to you belt, the the grunt ties what you need on the other end then you grunt et up. Would never consider it a true handline since you cant pull up wire, xarm, services etc... Guess its all in how you came up. Were I was at it was the grunts job to make the man on the woods life as easy as possible, the groundhand makes the lineman, especially on hooks! JMHO

[Hemingray Insulators]

ok, I'm a bit confused, now by endless handline are you meaning the rope is strung through a pully and then spliced into itself as you would splice 2 pieces of rope together?

[spur]

Well Swampy I think we can agree that there is more than one way to skin a cat in this great trade of our's , I have used you're handline when there was enough grunts to go around but with todays cut backs that is not the case.

spur

[659Lineman]

When I started I was told "Your handline is you best friend kid". We use it everyday. If someone can do the work from the ground, he does it. Changed out 2 poles today, bout 9 services between the two. The lineman, groundman and a handline swung them all. No slack blocks. Everytime we go up a pole, bucket or hooks, we take a handline. If the AP forgets to take it up, he is reminded, once he gets to the top, to come down and get it. We do run a 4 man crew. Foreman, 2 Linemen and a truck driver(operator). One more thing, my handline blocks have a "meat hook" and a "becky" on them. My "becky" of choice is a 10 foot rope through the eye of the block. Leaves 2 rope tails hanging out. We do have one guy that prefers the hook and slip "becky". Enough of my ramblings.

[T-Saw]

Wow, who'd of thought, that something as a simple piece of rope would spark such a debate. LOL
To answer the question of Orgnizedlbr, you got it pretty much right. We drop the end of the straight rope and pull up what's needed. As for the " What does the grunt do ? " question....uhhhmmm , he works for a different company, LOL, we ain't got none. I know , I know , Iknow....the guy on the ground is the grunt , no matter who he is. I just have a hard time saying , that guy down there , that's been a lineman longer than I been breathin' , is my grunt.But technically, he is at times, and I'm his occasionally. As for rope length, we have various lengths, and as long as it is at least twice as long as the pole height, plus a little , no problem. Hurt man rescue, is practiced and done by wrapping the x-arm if there is one , or around the pole with a screwdriver driven in. I was taught to drop the block and seperate the handline if possible, even when working with a regular handline, then you do the same thing I described. I know it sounds very different, but believe me . We can all do a hurt man rescue , quick enough that i would and do , climb with any of the guys I work with. Now once again , we don't climb all that much anymore , but when we do, I would say ,we do a damn fine job.

As for linehands comment that you can't pull up wire, services , crossarms etc....., we certainly do pull all those things, and yeah it does suck to have to hand over hand a xarm up a pole. that would be one of the cases for driving in your screwdriver and letting the groundman pull it up . That works good on services as well, or just lay the rope over the secondary and catch off the service and have the grunt hold the tension while you swing it. ( LOL to hear the foreman talk , they used to not even bother with a rop or a belt if it was less than a hundred foot service, " Hell just climb up ,wrap one leg around the pole , grab that service and swing it over . I never did figure out how they carried the stuff reconnect it though , if they didn't have their belts on. LOL but I still love to hear the stories of the old days, and I still learn a lot that way. I've only been doing linework for 13 years so I still have a lot to learn.)
As I mentioned, previously , I thought these guys were nuts for doing it the way they do. I was taught the same way as Olbr and Swamprat are talking about. The grunt better have the next piece of material ready to go for the lineman, and if it wasn't gonna cause problems, it better be already hanging just below ready to be pulled up to him with a cuple tugs , when the lineman was ready.

But now after doing it the way we do it , I would say , for as little hook work as we do, our way works fine. I do think if I was going to be in backyards all day everyday, walkin wood , I would probably dust off the adjustable becky , seperable loop handline and use it, maybe , depending on what we were doing.

It's all in what you get used to I guess. I used to hate the thought of hanging a tub with a jib , until I was forced to do a few hundred LOL, due to a lack of an available digger derrick , But now, I hate the thought of having to drag that thing out just to hang a tub.

Aww crap, I gotta go to work, I think we oughtta start a lineman exchange program , where I can go work on a crew in Florida during the winter and one of you guys can come up here . LOL . You know , just to see how the other guy does it. LOL. Yeah yeah yeah I know, I could pack my bag and drag up just like anyone else, but I kinda like it here , overall. I think I'll just stay put.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I was taught the same way as Olbr and Swamprat are talking about. The grunt better have the next piece of material ready to go for the lineman, and if it wasn't gonna cause problems, it better be already hanging just below ready to be pulled up to him with a cuple tugs , when the lineman was ready.

Thats how its done. The grunts job is to make it as easy as possible on the man in the air. Maybe I'm wrong and too old or been around too long but thats how linework is supposed to be. I'm also not a big proponent of the screwdriver in the pole for raising arms, use the right tools and ya wont run into trouble.....

[Orgnizdlbr]

When I started I was told "Your handline is you best friend kid". We use it everyday. If someone can do the work from the ground, he does it. Changed out 2 poles today, bout 9 services between the two. The lineman, groundman and a handline swung them all. No slack blocks. Everytime we go up a pole, bucket or hooks, we take a handline. If the AP forgets to take it up, he is reminded, once he gets to the top, to come down and get it. We do run a 4 man crew. Foreman, 2 Linemen and a truck driver(operator). One more thing, my handline blocks have a "meat hook" and a "becky" on them. My "becky" of choice is a 10 foot rope through the eye of the block. Leaves 2 rope tails hanging out. We do have one guy that prefers the hook and slip "becky". Enough of my ramblings.

Thats what I'm talking about.......

[Swamprat]

Just out of curiosity , do you hang a line if you're working out of a bucket? We have some guys that will, but most just go up and down to get stuff.

Naw.

I just go down and get the stuff, or haul what I need with me so I don't have to come down at all. That's what them Double buckets are for ain't it? :-)

Sometimes, when you're workin somethin like a Buck pole changeout, where you're gonna be there for awhile, I'll have a handline so I DON'T have to come down.

[T-Saw]

Yepper , a double bucket makes a very handy spot to haul some extra stuff up, I don't have one, but the other truck I'm usually with does, so he gets to haul most of it. Although somehow today, I got stuck haulin , three cutouts, 3 poly bells and shoes, a coil of acsr, and splices, plus 2 hot hoists , and my normal assortment of stuff up while we were transferring a buck pole.

To answer Hemingray's question : Sort of, lol , I have seen them spliced back upon themselves, and I have seen them with a snap in each end to hook together. They work great, I just can't get the guys I work with to use them.

Orgnizdlbr... nice one, on the let me get this "straight " comment

[LINEHAND]

Seems like if you had a man on the ground to tie things on then he should be able to pull it up........ The way I was talking about is just a straight peice of rope with material tied to one end, get it off drop that end back down, but only use it when their is not enough handlines to go around, usually storm work and not gonna be up their long. Also if your pulling all those things (services, xarm,wire) up why not just put a block on it. Seems it would also make it easier than hand over hand for material too.

[LINETRASH]

I was trained by a gnarley old school ****er who tought me to use the handline as a tool , not just to get material up the pole.

I have used a grunt on the end of a handline to let off as I took up with slack blocks when moving a dead end to a higher new pole.

Ive had 'em take a couple wraps around the pole and hold up some big loads while I re-rigged.

A handline is a great tool. The hook swamper showed is not exatly like the one I used to use, but, it is very well designed.

You can send up a xarm insulator by putting the stud in the hook and letting the square washer hold it.

When I framed a lot, I would get most of my material in the bucket, and also hanging off 2 or three of those yellow bucket hooks, very strong. In fact, if I have 2 heavy ass directional rectangular lights to hang, I wont hesitate to hang 'em both on them bucket hooks.

I always carried a length of 3/8" samson rope hanging inside my bucket, just enough to reach the ground. If I had to jam the bucket into a difficult and congested pole, I could just drop a line and pull stuff up that I needed.

I used this rope once to pull up my handline so the grunt could let me down to the ground . It was either that or sit up there for a couple hours waitin' on the mechanic!

Alway remember, a good grunt keeps a lineman busy!

[old lineman]

Swamprat you seem to be having lots of trouble explaining the in's and out's of a handline with a hook.
You are 'bang on man' it's the best system going.
We called the cast bronze hook a 'meat hook'. The other end of the rope was connected to the hook via a snap hook snapped into the eye in the back.
The lineman could simply part the line by disengaging the snap hook. During a regular day of work, I used to disengage probably 10-15 timesfor many reasons.
This is by far the best setup I've ever used.
I think there should be an unwritten rule.
Linemen should never have to pull stuff up to himself. That's what grunts are for. Pulling stuff up always forces you to lift out of position (off to the side) and that's bad for the back.
The grunt can do this with the greatest of ease. If the object is heavy give him a hand.
A lineman using a straight line is far less efficient that one using a pulley handline.
A grunt can make or break a lineman!
A good grunt makes a good lineman. He'll have the next item required right at his finger tips when he needs it.
All the lineman has to do is reach out and grab it. I love working with a good grunt.
We become a TEAM, and there is no 'I' in team.
The Old Lineman

[dbrown20]

I've seen handlines only made in basically one form. All used a sheave. Pulling up things by yourself is a piece of crap, using a straight line or running line as some may term it. If the co. can't afford to have a man on the ground to send things up, it's time to move on. To me it is very unprofessional, and I do it myself, to bob up and down in the bucket to get things. If it's a very lengthy task, I always take a handline.

A handline should always have a sheave. If the sheave has a gut hook or meat hook no becky is necessary. If not a meathook type sheave then a becky is necessary. Hastings makes a handline hook similar to the one Swampy showed and Chance makes one very similar with more of a sharp V to the hook. I don't like either. Bashlin makes the best type. I have also used a handline with no hook, just an eye in one end and tie a sheet bend in it. To be able to part a handline is a necessity. To send a heavy service up or something that may be a little to heavy (string of bells), and use a vehicle to pull it with makes splitting the handline very necessary. Used to carry extra sheaves on the truck when it became necessary to have an extra handline then just a long piece of rope was just put in the extra handline and tied with a sheet bend.

Western power in Portland or Seattle, I believe makes a good line of sheaves. Used to make the old meat hook or guthook type.

Pulling stuff up by yourself reminds me of when I used to work for Ma Bell.

I've witnessed 2 forms of grunt and lineman coordination when doing work. One form consisted of the lineman who wanted the grunt to anticipate what he wanted and have it there waiting. The other didn't want it sent until he asked for it. I favor the latter. I used to work with a guy who would take something unasked for from the handline and fling it. If the grunt became angry this guy was tough enough to back it up. His premise was simple. He knew usually what he intended to do and he did not want the groundman interupting his flow of work by sending up something he had not planned for. Usually a running patter kept things straight like. "After I put on these guts , the next thing I want is a set of blocks and a grip". Doing it his way usually resulted in a smooth operation. dbrown20

[Swamprat]

Swamprat you seem to be having lots of trouble explaining the in's and out's of a handline with a hook.
You are 'bang on man' it's the best system going.
We called the cast bronze hook a 'meat hook'. The other end of the rope was connected to the hook via a snap hook snapped into the eye in the back.
The lineman could simply part the line by disengaging the snap hook. During a regular day of work, I used to disengage probably 10-15 timesfor many reasons.
This is by far the best setup I've ever used.
I think there should be an unwritten rule.
Linemen should never have to pull stuff up to himself. That's what grunts are for. Pulling stuff up always forces you to lift out of position (off to the side) and that's bad for the back.
The grunt can do this with the greatest of ease. If the object is heavy give him a hand.
A lineman using a straight line is far less efficient that one using a pulley handline.
A grunt can make or break a lineman!
A good grunt makes a good lineman. He'll have the next item required right at his finger tips when he needs it.
All the lineman has to do is reach out and grab it. I love working with a good grunt.
We become a TEAM, and there is no 'I' in team.
The Old Lineman

Yup, guess I am man. It ain't just a "handline with a hook" though. It's a "handline hook"...meathook.

I was just brought up with one that way. "Assumed" everybody was.

Guess Not. Which Reminds me....I was suppose to take a picture of my REAL Handline...I'll do that tomorrow and post it tomorrow night. Thanks for the Reminder.

I honestly can't BELIEVE this discussion on the Lineman's most BASIC Tool!!!

I've done "Shit and Get" linework too....LONG time ago. Dropped my ass off at a pole, with a sling line, a cross arm and a brace and bit. Figure THAT out without a grunt. Plus your bolt and Lag.

I'd like to think those days are gone....but I guess not.

If YOU got to TELL your grunt what you need next, when you're up a pole in the back yard...Shame on YOUR ass. YOU ain't taught that boy.

Quite obviously, he's never had a crossarm thrown back down at him for sendin it up wrong.

[dbrown20]

Worked for a Muni. once. On a weekend another guy and I answered a call where the local power co. (OG&E), and the Muni. had overlapping areas. It was the Pwr. co's problem. Had a burned up Cutout on a lateral. When we arrived the Pwr. co. troubleman was there and was tooled up. He started to climb the pole. He had a piece of long rope tied to his belt. On it he had tied a pair of hot cutters, a shot gun stick, and a new cutout with a hotclamp on it. I said. If you'll take a handline, we'll grunt for you. He replied. I don't even have one. I went and got one from our truck and said. Use this one. He did and we grunted for him. I thought it pitiful that a large power co. would expect people to work in such a manner. I have talked to REC guys who changed out pots alone and while climbing. I know this can be done, but I just think it is pitiful that co's coerce their employees into doing such things. Then if there is an accident, who's ass do you think is blamed? It torques me that co. management with these co's want to crow about safety. What hypocrites.

As for Swampy's remark about training your grunt well and not saying anything to him, I would have liked for him to grunt for the man I spoke of. If you think he always did things exactly the same each time then you would be mistaken.

To me a handline without a sheave and not a grunt on the other end is not a handline. It's just a piece of rope.

If it's a life or death emergency anyone will do risky things. If not get some help. dbrown20

[old lineman]

You know DBrown when I was 'huffin em' our grunts paid close attention to the progress of the job. He did this because he was predicting what the next step was. And as I said he could make you look real good or bad if there was a falling out.
Linemen get the reputation of being premadonna's because of that superiority attitude that you spoke about.
I always looked a my grunt as my friend not somebody I should beat on if something didn't go as planned. Shit happens.
In fact it happens every day. That's life!
I have investigated near 100 hundred accidents and read tons of reports on others.
One common thread when you do an interview with all of the players is "I didn't see it happen".
Here's my take on that right or wrong. I've seen linemen load up the bucket with enough cover up, tools and hardware that it will take him 2 hours or more to comsume. What's a grunt to do in the interim. What about the 300 lb. capacity of the bucket. (I'll bet they are loaded to 500 lbs. on a daily basis working like that).
Watch the girls go by? Believe me thats not a stretch.
When a pulley handline is in use the grunt is watching, predicting, planning AND possibly seeing a potential error. I believe that's one reason why linemen don't like to work alone, they want that second pair of eyes.
Let's keep them involved, interested and working as a TEAM.
By the way I'm with you on this working alone crap. We need someone in the immediate area who can climb, is equipped to do so and has rescue equipment and knows first aid and CPR.
An AED is a bonus that we should also be harping about.
Honestly I don't have much respect for anyone belittling another worker be him/her a grunt or otherwise.
All you have to do is ask yourself why is he here? To earn a living like you and me.
They say, "the world owes us a living, but we have to work like hell to collect it."
Lots of grunts go on to become linemen but some can't for fear of heights, physical liabilities, fear of electricity, and the list goes on. One thing I know they have the same needs as us and can't command the same wage so they struggle more than us.
The Old Lineman

[Swamprat]

This is what I was brought up with, and taught how to make. I can't count the "Tricks" I've learned and been shown with these....with or without a grunt.

I saw one a few weeks ago I'd never seen before. Not sure I liked the "idea" behind it though. The Block had a "Brake" the lineman could flip and keep things hangin on the line to free up the grunt.

I don't know what it is, but somethin bout that "just don't set right" in my mind. Maby it's just me. A handline's a pretty simple tool. Now they're startin to put "Bells and Whistles" on em.......What next? A little voice that says...."You've Got Material"!!! :-)

Anyway....to me, THIS is a Handline.

[barehander]

This has been interesting reading.
Swamp, I'm with you. Didn't know others did not use handlines. When I was a Troubleman, I used a handline by myself and would have liked a self- holding one, thank God I can tie a hitch. I'll take some pics of what hooks we use. We use caribeeners instead of snaps and opening blocks.

Oldlineman, I have to disagree with you again, sorry. I am King when I'm on a pole. The grunt is not there to read my mind. A good lineman should have all his tools and material out before he goes up the pole. Like someone said before, "when I get done with this, I'll need this." I would never blaim a grunt when something goes wrong in the air, but, if there's a screwup on the ground cause he didn't listen, he'll get an earfull, the CEO of the company would get the same if he did it. It's to make them pay attention, to listen. I was tought that the grunt should have his hand on the handline at all times, not leaning against the trailer. That way he's always looking up. Struggle to make the same wage as us, where the hell do live where a grunt even comes close. Don't get me wrong, the grunt I train today is my pole partner tomorrow. 32yrs against a 1 month grunt!

[Swamprat]

Oldlineman, I have to disagree with you again, sorry. I am King when I'm on a pole. The grunt is not there to read my mind.

Maby I didn't explain that just right BH. I should have said..."I've had the pleasure of workin with a couple grunts/apprentices for an extended period of time, to where "They" learned how I worked, and were payin enough attention to know what I was gonna want or need next." Somethin like that's pretty Magic. I've had plenty of grunts that I would tell,..."Don't do shit....Stand there, hold the line and when I tell you to send up somethin...send it up."

There's alot more too it than that though. You as the lineman have to teach em....How to rig a crossarm to send it up for example.
Ya can't be yellin at the boy if he ties it in the middle and tries to send it up thru the secondarys....though I've worked with some linemen that like it that way....go figure.

I taught my grunts to hook the handline with the hook....around the arm, right below the carriage bolt of the braces....then run the line up the arm, and tie the line to the top of the crossarm with a "piggin string", in a Bow.

When the arm comes up to me, nice and straight.... I'd just pull the bow, hold the arm with one hand, and let the grunt pull the arm up.....right over my belt. Sweet.

[LINEHAND]

Yea swampy, I agree that it is up to the man on the wood to teach the man on the ground what he likes. Even if it is a seasoned ape or grunt, they may be used to a different linemans way. I always teach my grunt to hook the xarm in the drop pin, or usually like them to split the line and tie a clove hitch if it is a crowded pole. This will keep it secure and very easy to just slip off once horizontal. And like you said tie it at the top with a "bow" .

[old lineman]

One grunt we had in New England was a peach of a guy who had absolutley no desire to become a lineman but his whole focus was to become an electrical engineer.
He worked tirelessly going to university on weekends and nights.
Once he became an engineer I lost track of him but often asked about him.
To a man, everybody said he was the best engineer they ever had. He knew what worked and didn't and wasn't too proud to ask.
The Old Lineman

[Swamprat]

One grunt we had in New England was a peach of a guy who had absolutley no desire to become a lineman but his whole focus was to become an electrical engineer.
He worked tirelessly going to university on weekends and nights.
Once he became an engineer I lost track of him but often asked about him.
To a man, everybody said he was the best engineer they ever had. He knew what worked and didn't and wasn't too proud to ask.
The Old Lineman

Yeah,
EVERY Engineer ought to spend a year on a workin Line Crew, as a grunt...before they go "inside" and start tellin Linecrews what to do.

"Reality" is a real "Learning tool".

[Koga]

write a book on the proper way for a grunt to work a handline. It seems a lot of the young guys Ive seen lately either dont know or dont care to know, how it should be done.Sure makes it hard for the man up the pole. After watching two younger guys roll em up after a job I had to show em how to make one up, so when a lineman carries it up whole and drops it, it rolls out nice and straight and doesnt get all tangled up half way down the pole.

Koga

[Swamprat]

write a book on the proper way for a grunt to work a handline. It seems a lot of the young guys Ive seen lately either dont know or dont care to know, how it should be done.Sure makes it hard for the man up the pole. After watching two younger guys roll em up after a job I had to show em how to make one up, so when a lineman carries it up whole and drops it, it rolls out nice and straight and doesnt get all tangled up half way down the pole.

Koga

Well Koga,
Personal opinion. There's only ONE way for a grunt to work a handline. The way I show him I want it done when I'm up a pole.
AND...If he "don't care to know", then he "don't care to be in linework", and won't be workin with me.

Again, Personal opinion. I don't carry my handline up the pole rolled up. NEVER understood that. Seen alot of guys do it though. What ever works for ya.....

My grunt/apprentice, unwraps my handline...throws it out, and I hang it on my belt and climb the pole. What's the point in carryin that extra weight up with me and havin to undo it and drop it?

"Make it easy on yourself". Whatever "easy" is to you.....

[Orgnizdlbr]

Well Koga,
Personal opinion. There's only ONE way for a grunt to work a handline. The way I show him I want it done when I'm up a pole.
AND...If he "don't care to know", then he "don't care to be in linework", and won't be workin with me.

Again, Personal opinion. I don't carry my handline up the pole rolled up. NEVER understood that. Seen alot of guys do it though. What ever works for ya.....

My grunt/apprentice, unwraps my handline...throws it out, and I hang it on my belt and climb the pole. What's the point in carryin that extra weight up with me and havin to undo it and drop it?

"Make it easy on yourself". Whatever "easy" is to you.....

Couldnt say any better myself Swamp. I dont understand carrying the whole handline up either.....why take it up just to drop it back down???http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[dbrown20]

I think ordinarily most people undo a handline while carrying it up the pole, but sometimes in order to drop it down through a specific hole through the telephone or cable tv drops, I have seen guys carry it up made up and then unravel it. Also if you don't have one of those breakaway devices to carry it on some companies might insist that you carry it all made up in order to not get jerked off the pole by a car or something.

Guy told me the first time he was on a job and grunted, they put him on the end of the handline and told him. Here's your tether, don't graze any further than it will reach. dbrown20

[Special ED]

Swamp... I use the handline with the hook and snap like to showed every day. Its is easy to use and if you got help on the ground you can use it for anything. Hell I have even hung small 10kva transformers with my handline. I've also used the straight line with an eye on each end when working alone. I would mainly use it pulling up services or other light tasks if it was something major I would get out the regular handline with the block and get some ground help..

The block handlines are awesome. Have any of you seen the Jem2? Its a handline block that has a brake in it to hold a load for you so the grunt can get back to makin up your material.

My handline and a sling rope are good friends up in the air. Now if I could just get a grunt to learn how to operate the hand line instead of his mouth I would be in great shape.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I think ordinarily most people undo a handline while carrying it up the pole, but sometimes in order to drop it down through a specific hole through the telephone or cable tv drops, I have seen guys carry it up made up and then unravel it. Also if you don't have one of those breakaway devices to carry it on some companies might insist that you carry it all made up in order to not get jerked off the pole by a car or something.

Guy told me the first time he was on a job and grunted, they put him on the end of the handline and told him. Here's your tether, don't graze any further than it will reach. dbrown20

dbrown, if I have to drop through a spicific hole I still dont carry it all then drop it....I have the grunt split the line and pull me the end and drop it where I need it. If he needs the other end in the same spot i have him do the same.....

[polehiker]

Know I have been gone from the trade for 6 yrs and hope you guys don't mind me jumping in now and then. Climbed and used a bucket for 36 of my 38 yrs out there and never thought much of the straight line and pulling things up by myself. As was said on here earlier,the handline that can be split can really be a good tool and make the work go a lot easier. It also gives the grunt something to do. Just make sure he keeps it out of traffic. Use it and all you young'uns can use your shoulders and back for golfing and fishing when you retire and you may not hurt quite as bad. The aches and pains come soon enough without any help.Just a thought from an old guy in Fl. for the winter.

[Koga]

I will have em roll it out and carry the block up on my belt.On the few occasions I still climb :D . I was refering mainly to when its carried up in the bucket and then dropped, if its not rolled up right it wobbles side ways and gets tangl