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tob298
06-08-2006, 05:53 PM
Heard about an accident that happened this week involving a JCR contractor crew working for Nstar. The info. is pretty slim but this is what Nstar is telling us. That while a JCR contractor was working in Natick-they were tranferring a junction pole (13.8k)with two buckets in the air-for some unknown reason one bucket came down (I don't know why or what that person was doing on the ground) but the other guy in the air decided to take off a jumper they had put on to do the transfer-as a prctice we do not take off jumpers by with one person-as he took the jumper off the top phase it slipped out of his hand and hit the top of the cutout the was energized but the wrong phase-the result was a phase to phase blast with him in the middle of it-he did get himself down out of the air-when asked what happened-he said " I don't know"-it was stated that he had 40% burns on him-Like I said the info is pretty slim-this is all Nstar is willing to tell us for fear of a law suit I think anyways-

loodvig
06-09-2006, 07:23 AM
I have heard other horror stories about JCR but this is the worst! I feel bad for the man who was hurt.

loodvig
06-15-2006, 06:35 AM
Any more info on this accident?

KingRat
06-15-2006, 07:50 AM
Loodvig, your slanderous and malicious comments which are neither justified or correct are not appreciated. JCR has the best equipment in the industry, including New England, look around it’s everywhere, I’m sure you’ve seen it. The JCR crew was not transferring a junction pole, both buckets were in the air at the time of the incident and the lineman was not utilizing jumpers because the pole was not being transferred, thus the lineman didn’t drop anything. The only information that can be released as the investigation is ongoing was that it involved a Chance cut out. When the investigation concludes, the results will be posted in order to keep the mis-informed to a minimum. The lineman is doing well and should be released from the hospital in a few days. His injuries were burns to his stomach and face, however, no plastic surgery or skin grafting was required because he was wearing the required PPE. Loodvig, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands, looking forward to hearing from you. This is a good web site for Lineman, let’s keep it positive

loodvig
06-15-2006, 09:20 AM
'JCR has the best equipment in the industry'
First off thank god the man is OK!
That's great! Do they still rent out bucket trucks to house painters when it's slow? Do they still send out trucks to glove 34kv with cracked bucket liners? Do they still cross N-Stars picket lines? Is it true the injured man worked only on street lights before the accident? Is it true lots of people quit after one day at JCR? Why did JCR have a big auction a few years back? IC Reed & sons seem to have no problems.

JCR comes from a good family of GOOD linemen. The Reed family. So tell me why this shit happens?

loodvig
06-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Well, come on big mouth, I'm just getting going on being slanderous! No reply?
I haven't even asked about another bad accident JCR has had. Does Salem St. in North Andover, Ma. ring a bell?

topgroove
06-15-2006, 08:00 PM
Dont worry loodvig, Ratking won't have the balls to reply.When I hear the name JCR all I can think of is picket crossing scabs. This asshole is doing damage control. After they have their story straight I'm sure Nstar and JCR will come up with some story to explain it.

" The only information that can be released as the investigation is ongoing was that it involved a Chance cut out. When the investigation concludes, the results will be posted in order to keep the mis-informed to a minimum."

Typical BULLSHIT!

BigClive
06-15-2006, 11:38 PM
Do you think Chance cutouts are going to be used as a universal cop-out now?

KingRat
06-20-2006, 07:47 AM
Sorry for the delay Loodvig, I took today off it’s, too hot, who’s payroll are you on? Our buddy is out of the hospital, no skin grafts, just has to wear a lot of sun screen and a sombrero. He’ll be back in 4 to 5 weeks probably start him on something easy like street lights which he has done before. Although he has been doing line work for over 8 years, even went to Iraq and built sub stations and power grids over there, I’d work with him any day. I’m pretty sure we don’t rent trucks to house painters, but we get to use the equipment on weekends and holidays, and the owners have been known to let retired lineman use the equipment so I suppose they could be painting with them. . . .sure would beat using a ladder. What else. . .cracked bucket liners. . what’s that about? It’s up to us to notify the company about any defects in our equipment, especially since the owners still work on a crew, which I’m sure you probably know, and if they saw something like that on our bucket, we would probably be taking an unplanned vacation. Which is why some people only work here a day or get fired after a few hours, they just don’t make the cut. Yeah, that auction was a big deal here in Raymond, most of the equipment was from the Northeast corridor rail job, we kicked the shit out of that job don’t you think? No? we were one and half years ahead of schedule. What else…..you had a lot of questions…the Reed family are good people, good lineman and I.C Reed is no exception, but they have had accidents too, you probably never heard about them because their exposure is a lot less then JCR, especially in the south. You know why accidents happen across the industry, poor judgment and lack of concentration maybe. Why did the lineman in the valley get hurt, word on the street is he wasn’t wearing rubber gloves?!? With all our training and safety equipment, what’s that all about?? Salem St, N Andover in 1985, yeah I was here, the lineman took out a lag and the cross arm flipped down pinning the lineman against the pole, made contact with his upper arm, its why we wear sleeves all the time now.

Topgroove, we know who’s got the bigger balls and it definitely isn’t you. JCR pulled all the trucks out of Nstar on that strike. If that storm hadn’t hit and put people without power we wouldn’t have been doing any linework on that system. We responded to storm restoration with people out of power, just like any lineman should do. How about your buddy’s that left their trucks on Nstar’s property and couldn’t get them out to help people. You guys would have been smarter to do storm restoration as well, would have put public opinion in your favor and forced Nstar to negotiate your contract faster, but that’s up to you. It’s like when we went to New York to cover for you Grid guys. We were only there for storm restoration; the owner’s even came with us to ensure we only did storm restoration. We don’t cross picket lines asshole; we were scabs when we were in the union. I don’t get paid to do damage control, I’ll tell you whatever I know, whether it’s about line work, the meaning of life, whatever, just ask me and I answer truthfully and the best I can.

topgroove
06-20-2006, 10:23 AM
so your saying JCR worked on NSTAR property for storm restoration while its union employee's were on strike.

loodvig
06-20-2006, 01:44 PM
Ya, no sh!t, why would Nstar want to bargin with the strikers when they have JCR!!
I don't think you get it K-rat.
Tell the others more about the N.Andover accident. How the man lost both of his arms. How his twin brother took it. Where was his rubber cover up. Why did he pull the lag when there was 3 phase 336 bare on a 6 pin arm on a slight corner.
Was he fresh out of a mid west line school?
On Nstar's property is it true some of you carried baseball bats because you feared for your life? It was on the news showing guys with bats.

woody
06-20-2006, 08:13 PM
Love the question that's being asked now!...Did you cross a picketline or what? kingrat... what's the answer? woody

loodvig
06-21-2006, 07:38 AM
Oh they crossed alright. Along with a company called On Target! It was to help in a storm! wink wink 'They left N-stars property when the strike started'. Well ya, how else can you get to your trucks! If left where they were they may not have been able to get them after the strike started. Let me guess the trucks had a staging area close by! And N-Star paid for your hotel.

loodvig
06-21-2006, 10:40 AM
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is JCR like many other outfits are short of good help. So in the mean time they put green people in the air. You could be the paper boy one day and glove 13kv a week later!
On the bucket liner story: a man hired on and was told they were going to glove 34kv that day. He went out to put his gear on a truck and found the bucket liner was cracked. He went back and told the man. The reply was, 'if it was good enough for the last man it's good enough for you'. He drug up!
On the house painter thing. Ever wonder what 15 to 20 gallons of overspray does to a fiberglass boom? Did you ever hear of tracking K-rat?
'Who's payroll are you on' Maybe I work for JCR! Do you know for sure?

tob298
06-24-2006, 07:51 PM
Sorry for not responding ealier but I was on vacation for a couple of weeks-anyways the updated story is that the JCR crew did not get a state police detail because they felt they could do the job from a parking lot with both trucks parked side-by-side. They were removing hard line taps and putting up cutouts in the taps place on a junction pole. Both buckets were in the air at the same time and had all three cutouts up and in and running but only one bucket could get to the outer phase to remove the hard line tap-so that man(the one that was hurt) went and took off the upper tap and held it alive in his hand-then reached over to get to the bottom of the tap-when he did this while reaching for the bottom tap his body shifted and the upper tap came into contact with the top of a live cutout of the opposite phase and had a phase to phase explosion-they did not have any rubber on the newly installed cutouts to prevent this-if they had paid for a state police detail they would have been on rte 9 where both trucks could have had a better position to get at everything and both guys in the buckets could have helped each other out safely-Now K-rat I know all this because this is how it was explained to me by my Nstar supervisor who had pictures of the event including where the trucks were parked and how much rubber they were using-now let us talk about crossing picket lines-you say that JCR only crossed when there was outage from a storm then how come you guys were doing our regular maintance work before the storm hit while we were on strike-both you guys and on target were scabs no matter how you try to justify it to yourselves or anyone else.

topgroove
06-24-2006, 09:20 PM
how bout it k-rat did you cross a picket line? JCR are scabs.

KingRat
06-26-2006, 09:51 AM
Well Tob298 I hope you had a good vacation, I thought this was a lineman's forum. If that's what truly happened, then why was the middle high side tap still attached to the hendrix and the low side hot line clamp off and hanging. The tap was 30" in length and will not reach the outside phase cutout. you saw the pictures, do you even know what your looking at?
let me run this by you Tob298, the injured lineman was in position between the middle and outside phase cutouts, 6” higher then the top of the cutouts, which was his first mistake. If you happen to see the pictures you would see everything covered up with line hose and blankets except for the brand new chance cutouts he installed, second mistake. The Lineman took off the low side hot line clamp then proceeded to take off the high side which he can do because he is 6’10” and the tap is only 30” long, could have used a shotgun even if his arms are abnormally long, which was his third mistake. The injured lineman was distracted by a noise, looked down and watched the arc form from the control area of his bucket to the tap in his hand. He let go of the tap and broke the arc when he put his hands up in front of his face. Burn marks on the exposed metal on the side of the bucket and control area seem to solidify this chain of events. The lineman says he was in the clear, but by how much? 2” maybe. What’s the flash over margin? High humidity, hot day, what do you think Old Lineman? Both trucks were in good position off the road and would be obvious to see in the pictures, what are you a state trooper?
What else. . .we did not do any maintenance work before or during the strike, nor did we stay in any motels or carry bats, don’t compare or confuse us with On-target.
Well its raining and we have the day off, yeah that’s right we don’t work in the rain, sorry to disappoint you JCR bashers. If you want the truth without paying union dues, K-Rat standing by!

topgroove
06-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Just answer one simple question.... Did JCR do storm restoration work for NSTAR while its rank and file employee's were on strike.

KingRat
06-26-2006, 11:12 AM
Loodvig, I almost forgot about you! Listen up, North Andover accident 1985, I believe it was a Friday. The injured lineman was framing a transformer pole. They had already run in the new circuit of Hendrix construction with single phase 1/0 ACSR outrigged on a 4 pin cross arm to make room for the new circuit…get all that? The lineman was in the process of putting up a steel standoff bracket for a transformer cutout and the lag screw holding the temporary arm was in the way. So he decided to remove it and drill the hole for the bracket. The arm tipped down making contact with his right elbow, startled, the lineman turned and made contact with his left arm on the Hendrix bracket that was grounded. Sleeves, a piece of line hose, move the cut out bracket a couple of inches, all would have prevented the accident. One of the owners and detail officer administered C.P.R to the injured. He did lose his right arm. However, he doesn’t have a twin brother and it wasn’t three phase 336 bare on a 6 pin arm…where did that come from?!? The lineman works out of Local 104 and goes by the name Lefty. 20 years working for the Grid, we can’t be doing everything wrong. We just had two linemen go to work for the power company and three go to Local 104, all as Journeyman.
Everybody is short of help these days, we as lineman have to watch out for each other more than ever. I know a lot about tracking deer Loodvig, your nothing but a paper pusher, stuck in a little cubicle looking at four walls, buying time. You don’t work with us, at least not anymore. I think your one of those Grid guys that got bagged for D.U.I and was suspended and worked for us until you were re instated. I didn’t agree with those deals, but that’s the owners business. How about it Loodvig, where did you dig up these stories?
What else. . .like I said before, we don’t cross picket lines, our trucks had been pulled off Nstar’s system, we only responded to storm restoration with people out of power. We did no maintenance, moved no houses, stayed only one day and the owners pulled us out. It was crazy. If that is what Topgroove is referring to as crossing a picket line, then I guess it is. Its raining, talk to me, K-Rat standing by.

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak up and remove all doubt.

topgroove
06-26-2006, 12:55 PM
we only responded to storm restoration with people out of power. We did no maintenance, moved no houses, stayed only one day and the owners pulled us out. It was crazy. If that is what Topgroove is referring to as crossing a picket line, then I guess it is. .

YES! I consider doing storm restoration work for a company while its rank and file is on strike "crossing a picket line". I also find it reprehensible,
selfish and totally fucked up. Whether your in a union or work for a contractor I could care less to each his own. But to work for a company while its rank and file have been on strike for in this case 6 months without a paycheck is unbelievable. For that I wish only the worst for JCR and ON-Target.May both companies and all who work for them burn in hell.

old lineman
06-26-2006, 09:01 PM
Well Tob298 I hope you had a good vacation, I thought this was a lineman's forum. If that's what truly happened, then why was the middle high side tap still attached to the hendrix and the low side hot line clamp off and hanging. The tap was 30" in length and will not reach the outside phase cutout. you saw the pictures, do you even know what your looking at?
let me run this by you Tob298, the injured lineman was in position between the middle and outside phase cutouts, 6” higher then the top of the cutouts, which was his first mistake. If you happen to see the pictures you would see everything covered up with line hose and blankets except for the brand new chance cutouts he installed, second mistake. The Lineman took off the low side hot line clamp then proceeded to take off the high side which he can do because he is 6’10” and the tap is only 30” long, could have used a shotgun even if his arms are abnormally long, which was his third mistake. The injured lineman was distracted by a noise, looked down and watched the arc form from the control area of his bucket to the tap in his hand. He let go of the tap and broke the arc when he put his hands up in front of his face. Burn marks on the exposed metal on the side of the bucket and control area seem to solidify this chain of events. The lineman says he was in the clear, but by how much? 2” maybe. What’s the flash over margin? High humidity, hot day, what do you think Old Lineman? Both trucks were in good position off the road and would be obvious to see in the pictures, what are you a state trooper?
What else. . .we did not do any maintenance work before or during the strike, nor did we stay in any motels or carry bats, don’t compare or confuse us with On-target.
Well its raining and we have the day off, yeah that’s right we don’t work in the rain, sorry to disappoint you JCR bashers. If you want the truth without paying union dues, K-Rat standing by!

How did I get dragged into this (Old Lineman?). Maybe I'm mistaken.
The answer, 1 inch for every 10,000 volts. You do the calculations.
The Old Lineman

KingRat
06-27-2006, 06:22 AM
I enjoy reading your responses Old Lineman and value your opinion because of your intelligent, informed and unbiased respones. I thank you. K-rat

loodvig
06-27-2006, 07:30 PM
Nope don't work in a office. Never had a DUI either but I know who your talking about. He went on to Peabody light and took em deep on a fake injury.

topgroove
06-28-2006, 08:16 AM
notice kingrat will not admitt he crossed a pickett line. It dosent matter that it was for storm restoration work. that's like trying to make the argument that he's not a faggot cause he only sucked one dick.

loodvig
06-28-2006, 11:11 AM
ya no sh!t you do it once and you got the name for life!!!!

BigClive
06-28-2006, 12:46 PM
ya no sh!t you do it once and you got the name for life!!!!

Hey, isn't that the punchline of a joke? :)

loodvig
06-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Hey, isn't that the punchline of a joke? :)
Yes it is!
But this subject is no joke.

woody
06-28-2006, 08:40 PM
yup...nothing funny about this...crossing a picket line in any circumstance...is bad juju...PERIOD! NO REASON GOOD ENOUGH! woody

rusty
06-29-2006, 07:17 AM
To One and ALL,

I have been following this for awhile now. While I am just a nobody, would not these issues be better addressed under the forum for Union issues, instead of one meant for injured and killed workers??? Just my 2 cents worth, but from some of the responses, I bet any family member or friend of one of our fallen BROTHERS "" UNION OR NOT """, who came here searching for info, GOT MORE THAN THEY SHOULD HAVE!!!!

loodvig
06-29-2006, 08:19 AM
Well Rusty again your probably right. But you may notice a lot of these threads get off the main subject.

KingRat
06-30-2006, 07:22 AM
loodvig he's not probably right, he is right- well said rusty

rusty
07-05-2006, 10:27 AM
To One and ALL,

When it comes to caring for the families and those injured or killed in our trade, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR " ANY " OTHER ISSUES!!! PERIOD! While it is true Union workers have more history and training advantages than any others, WE TO still lose Brothers!!!! For me the issue of being Union or not depends a lot on how those who are Union carry themselves and how they treat and relate to others. But when it comes to holding those accountable for putting profits and production above the lives and fair treatment OF ANY AND ALL BROTHERS AND THEIR FAMILIES, NOTHING OTHER THAN ACCOUNTABILITY AND JUSTICE MATTERS! PERIOD!

I can't help if I am not called, have a plan """ BEFORE """ one of these tragedies happen!!! " MANY TIMES " justice and fair treatment is denied due to not having a plan and due to the shock and turmoil evidence is lost and covered up!!!! FACT!!!

Safety Jake
07-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Here is some info on the JCR accident in Natick MA.
The crew was working on what is called "circuit walkdowns" on the NStar system. The job was to install 3 15kv cutouts on a 3 phase junction. Main line curcuit was 336.4MCM Spacer Cable. Laterals were 1/0 al ASCR. The crew had installed the two oustide cutouts and removed the 4str Cu ozone taps. The lineworker was in the process of removing the middle tap..he had taken of the 1/0 lateral end and was moving to remove the other end from the spacer when he contacted the top of one of the outside cutouts. 13.8kv cross phase. This caused the circuit to operate once and also blew the two cutouts. He was able to bring himself to the ground and was actually talking on a cell phone shortly after he came down.
His fr shirt had a good size hole blown in it as did his fr pants. I have seen pictures of his rubber gloves, sleeves, hardhat, rubber blanket and the inside of the bucket and controls etc. I know the area very well and it is a heavily loaded curcuit not to far from the station.
The inside of the bucket looks like you're looking into a black hole.
I don't know all the details...but it appears that the trucks were set up in the field side of the work. This didn't allow both trucks to get in position to remove the tap. Hope this helps. Be Safe and know your job!!!!

old lineman
07-06-2006, 08:42 PM
Here is some info on the JCR accident in Natick MA.
The crew was working on what is called "circuit walkdowns" on the NStar system. The job was to install 3 15kv cutouts on a 3 phase junction. Main line curcuit was 336.4MCM Spacer Cable. Laterals were 1/0 al ASCR. The crew had installed the two oustide cutouts and removed the 4str Cu ozone taps. The lineworker was in the process of removing the middle tap..he had taken of the 1/0 lateral end and was moving to remove the other end from the spacer when he contacted the top of one of the outside cutouts. 13.8kv cross phase. This caused the circuit to operate once and also blew the two cutouts. He was able to bring himself to the ground and was actually talking on a cell phone shortly after he came down.
His fr shirt had a good size hole blown in it as did his fr pants. I have seen pictures of his rubber gloves, sleeves, hardhat, rubber blanket and the inside of the bucket and controls etc. I know the area very well and it is a heavily loaded curcuit not to far from the station.
The inside of the bucket looks like you're looking into a black hole.
I don't know all the details...but it appears that the trucks were set up in the field side of the work. This didn't allow both trucks to get in position to remove the tap. Hope this helps. Be Safe and know your job!!!!

I've read quite a few posts on this accident but the bashing caused me to ignore it. It's too bad that even when some one gets hurt the stupid stuff comes out.
How incompassionate is that? Grow up!
One thing that I would like to comment on is that it appears that the lineman removed the by-pass jumper by hand. That would lead me to believe that they were using Red Heads.
This type of jumper is fine for secondary but should never be used for primary.
The by-pass jumpers should be applied using a shot gun. Remove those hand applied heads an put on duck bills.
Then the linemen can operate the jumper while safely out of the flash area.
In this case even when everything went wrong he would have been at least 5 feet below the flash and the heat would rise leaving him to worry only about molten metal.
The Old Lineman

topgroove
07-06-2006, 09:41 PM
exelent advise old lineman! I would have used double rubber insulate and isolate. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing but we've all seen this type of accident many times in the last couple years. In most cases it involves a crew contracted out by a major utility to do feeder rebuilds.Not a.doubt in my mind that the guy that gets hurt is a top notch lineman that knows his shit. The problem is that in each case it would seam that basic safety rules were not followed, corners were cut and someone got got hurt or killed. I would have to say that in this industry, contracting out to the lowest bidder will pay its way in blood. There is no system of checks and ballances. Best of all, when things go bad, There is no liability.Oh well, maybe we should just order a shitload of body bags. Deregulation has really worked.

loodvig
07-07-2006, 05:05 AM
Maybe I read it wrong. But I thought it was double dead ended wire with solid taps. They put up new cutouts and the injured man was removing the taps. I didn't think jumpers were involved at all. Am I wrong?

old lineman
07-07-2006, 04:42 PM
Maybe I read it wrong. But I thought it was double dead ended wire with solid taps. They put up new cutouts and the injured man was removing the taps. I didn't think jumpers were involved at all. Am I wrong?
Beats me Perhaps your right and I misread it.
In any case we always have to establish a safe work area (cover up, space or de-engization) and place ourselves in the most advantages position out of the flash area.
No doubt this poor guy was trying his best and got into trouble. Not all trouble is repairable.
That's why we have to stand down and analize our next move. Expect the worst hope for the best.
The Old Lineman

Safety Jake
07-08-2006, 12:48 AM
There were taps being removed after cutouts were installed . These taps are 4str copper ozone with bimetal hotline clamps at both ends. NStar policy permits the removal of these taps by hand ( rubber glove method ). It is the lineworkers choice wether he uses a shotgun or goes hands on. Another consideration in the positioning of the trucks deals with the use of what is refered to as a "sign board"...a blinking arrow board required on this road. This may have been why the crew set up in the field. Not many contractors have these on hand. Just one more note... the curcuit was not set to one shot. The tap that was dangling after the flash was alive and contacted the bottom of one of the blown cutouts-picking up load in the process. If the lineworker had slumped over the bucket after the flash... there is a good chance he would have been in contact with this live tap. Good reason to ask for the reclosing to be taken off !!!! Know your job and be safe !

KingRat
07-08-2006, 08:48 AM
safety jake has it right, at least thats the way our boss explained it, the owners built the structure in our training yard for a safety review. taps were existing and had hotline clamps, injured lineman could have used a shotgun to clear taps. he could and should have done several things different on that day,its up to us as lineman to protect ourselves every day. follow safety rules, thats what they are for.

Safety Jake
07-10-2006, 01:35 AM
I kwow I'm a junior member to this site... but rest assured I'm experienced in the linework part of the discussion.
I do not want to talk lineman vs, lineworker BS... if this site is truly safety than I can help. I am a lineman with 34 years of time...contractor for 2 1/ 2 yrs., Municipal 8 yrs. power company 25 yrs and counting.
Let's work to fix the issues instead of throwing bombs.
I would love to see all contractors union...but guess what...it is not going to happen...so let's work to create a work place where we can all function.
Keep the talk here on keeping human beings alive and safe.
trust me...in the long run it will work for everyones benifit.
Be safe and know your job ! ! !

loodvig
07-10-2006, 09:06 AM
Well Jake you make a lot of sence. So being a 'junior menber' doesn't matter much, to me anyway.

KingRat
08-10-2006, 08:41 PM
Got wind that NSTAR completed a safety investigation on this JCR accident. Anyone have the details of what actually happened?
it appears that the injured lineman took low side hot line clamp off, passed it to his left hand and reached up with his right hand to remove high side clamp and drove low side tap into opposite phase cutout.he will be back to work couple more weeks.