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View Full Version : Dying to work for Elliot



blik43
06-26-2006, 04:08 PM
WTF. The more you dig on Elliot the more you find. 2 gone in one week and I heard they had 9 Primary flashs sins the begining of the year. I know Elliot guys read these posts so lets hear what you have to say. The only way to chage things is to sound off like you have a pair. Don't let our brothers fall into the Elliot MEATGRINDER.

linewife
07-10-2006, 10:26 AM
Why is it the company's fault for workers not following the safety rules in place?
It is so easy to blame the "Company" when things go wrong, especially when a worker is killed. Ask yourself... how often do I take a risk trying to save time or make my job easier. I won't get hurt because some of these safety rules are crap. I know what I'm doing and I won't get hurt!

rgnizr
07-10-2006, 07:26 PM
Linewife,

If I were killed on the job and you disrespected me the way you have disrespected Marshall Dean Tomlin, on the world wide web, where his children and family can read it, my wife would hunt you down and tear your eyes and your forked tongue right out of your empty head.

Let your husband speak for himself while he's still alive. Working for Elliot, he may not have long to live. Somehow though, I doubt your hubby's a lineman or anyone who might be exposed to danger other than choking. More likely, by the way you talk, he's their safety man and a shitty one too.

If you want to defend DHE so badly I recommend you go get yourself a copy of Tort Law For Dummies. You may think you are an authority on safety and training programs because your hubby works there or maybe you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night but it's quite obvious to me you don't know shit.

On the other hand, if you want to know the truth about Elliot and their phony apprenticeship and safety programs, stick around, it will all come out in the wash....Elliot's got a lot to worry about.

LinemansGF
07-10-2006, 08:53 PM
I can give you a first hand experience with Elliot. Victor Morris, the 25 yr old lineman for Elliot that got killed June 13 was my boyfriend. He left behind two daughters (ages 2 and 3),family, friends, a girlfriend, and my 5 year old son who loved him more than anything. Let me tell you of the absolute hell this company had put him through, and is now putting his family and me through. Have you ever heard of a company playing pranks, making inexperienced lineman do jobs their not qualified to do or make apprentices work together? Now who wants to tell me what a great company Elliot is to work for because - your full of SHIT!! I know the hell they put my boyfriend through before they killed him. His death was not an accident or anything he could have prevented, his death was due to the neglience of Elliot. And trust me I have facts to back up everything I have said about Elliot. This company is nothing but lies and bullshit, and when you call to ask questions all they feed you is BS. So anyone who wants to say how great Elliot is or defend them feel free to message me. I have done so much digging on this company and found so many things against them you wouldn't believe. One thing I can say, Elliot will not get away with this--they may have killed Vic but we will get justice for him, and try our hardest to make sure no one else's family ever has to go through what we are.

tramp67
07-10-2006, 10:49 PM
My deepest condolences to you and your family. My thoughts and prayers are with you, and I wish you well in your fight against Elliot. It's unfortunate enough when equipment failures, etc. cause injury or death to linemen, there's no excuse for companies to be putting peoples' lives in danger needlessly, or to be putting people in a position that they aren't qualified for or experienced in. There's nothing that can make up for the loss of your boyfriend, but I wish you well in your quest to find some justice for this tragedy. Please keep us posted on how you and your family are doing.

mscheuerer
07-11-2006, 08:40 AM
Our deepest condolences as well. It sounds like this Elliot outfit is bad news and has been from the start. If theres anything we can do for you please feel free to let us know.

mscheuerer
07-11-2006, 09:00 AM
Well, after being so intriqued with these last few posts I started digging myself. This outfit has a really bad track record for Lineman and Workers.

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2005/03-1362.html

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2005/04-0836.html

SHELIA
07-11-2006, 11:37 AM
My deepest condolences to you and your family. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

BigClive
07-11-2006, 11:52 AM
Well, after being so intriqued with these last few posts I started digging myself. This outfit has a really bad track record for Lineman and Workers.

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2005/03-1362.html

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2005/04-0836.html

If you read those reports the first suggest that the lineman connecting the bond felt that e didn't need to take precautions for such a trivial and reltively safe job. The hot wire was out of easy reach but the wire he was uncoiling made contact.

In the second scenario I have to say that he had all the safety gear up there but didn't use it in a scenario where is would probably have been better used.

Maybe a lot of these incidents are down to the work being treated too casually by the workers. Whether that's down to bad training, being pushed for productivity or just bravado is not really clear. It's one of those things that until someone gets killed in front of you you don't realise the full potential of what you're dealing with.

Maybe training should be much more graphic. With detailed pictures of people who have died doing the same work. That tends to drive the message home.

edski104
07-11-2006, 06:29 PM
looks to me like this company fosters a climate that just begs for someone,hell,already more than one man,to get seriously hurt or like these 2 poor men,killed. the company obviously wants to put the blame for the incedents on the men,but the rules are for the company to follow too.how it sounds like these guys had a little time under there belts,but who knows how they wre trained? this is the kind of stuff that makes my ass itch all night and want to go back to the bad old days. i just hope the wives of these fallen men get all the payment that they deserve,and the company gets it's ass handed to it. one thing i can't figure out is why are the fines given by OSHA so small. you would thing that killing someone would be a lot bigger deal than 6 or 7 thousand dollars. i mean,is that all any of us is really worth to those people,and then they go and make all the rules on what we can and cannot do. go figure?!!

rgnizr
07-12-2006, 10:10 AM
If you want to know what a joke Elliot's safety program is, I have a little story for you. Names will not be included to protect the innocent....draw your own conclusion on the names that are included.

First we have to look at Elliot's safety handbook. In their handbook they have what they call a "No Excuses Safety Enforcement Policy" that primarily shifts responsibility for everything on the crew foreman. If you read it you begin to wonder why they need managers, office staff, payroll, training directors, safety trainers or even lawyers. Everything is the foreman's responsibility. You know what Elliot's gonna do when an accident happens right? Who in the f**k would want to be a foreman for this outfit?

Davis H. Elliot had a crew working recently on the property of Public Service Company of Oklahoma -PSO, who is owned by American Electric Power-AEP. The crew foreman was listed by DHE as being an apprentice until very recently but he was made responsible to run a hot crew. The crew had two linemen working in the bucket transferring a double dip-three phase pole. One of the guys in the bucket was considered an ap and the other was considered a jl (but he wasn't).

When the flash occurred it was a small hand tool that was being used to loosen a hot line clamp on a mechanical jumper that made contact with the underside of a lightning arrestor. Think about that.

Elliot fired the whole crew with an exception, you guessed it, the responsible guy, the foreman. Elliot knew that foreman didn't know wtf he was doing and had no business being responsible for a hot crew according to it's on policy but they put him out there anyway. They had to fire somebody though. One of them was a recently demoted foreman who almost burnt himself up a month before. If it weren't so frightening it would be funny.

Safety enforcement my ass. Safety training my ass. Apprenticeship my ass. Elliot is as blik43 says, the MEATGRINDER!

topgroove
07-12-2006, 10:34 AM
if you look at the last three fatalities at elliot you can see all three are very similliar. too little coverup was used and the lack of gloves and sleeves. After appeal no fines were even given, the violations were vacated and all blame was placed on the lineman. In each case the guys on the ground say it happened so fast they didn't see what happened because they were busy making up material on the ground. Are the crews so pressed for production that they feel they have to cut corners? Three fatalities in less than two years? Something is tragicly wrong.

Trampbag
07-12-2006, 12:11 PM
After appeal no fines were even given, the violations were vacated and all blame was placed on the lineman.


This is all too common a scenario when it comes to accidents in this trade. OSHA investigates, or rather the utility tells OSHA what the investigation concludes and the IBEW concurs. Fines are levied against the contractor (employer) by OSHA and the employer appeals those sanctions and the fines are greatly reduced or vanish.

Conclusion is more often than not; all fault to the lineman.

If you read what I said in the other thread on this topic -

4 fatalities and 2 serious injuries in three weeks ???

it explains 30 plus years of exasperation I have experienced with the accidents in this trade. It always comes dow to - BLAME THE DEAD GUY!

We have a serious problem in this trade. There is no central authority ensuring our safety standard, giving continuity in investigations or able to administer punitive action against employers having unsafe conditions in the workplace or providing escalading fines for persistent violators.

The IBEW certainly isn’t doing its job and conditions are approaching why Henry Miller and coworkers started the IBEW.

Also consider that the Worker’s Compensation Boards exist only to limit the liability employers have to pay to surviving family members. Also WCB’s protect employers from being sued by family members even if that employer is grossly negligent.

Basically put, line contractors and utilities are getting away with murder.

When will it be we as tradesmen will put aside our petty macho bickering and get together to force a change in the methods now applied that protect the employer, at huge cost to the family members left behind after a lineman is killed in a completely preventable accident?

Why do you think contractors are being used more and more? Contractors have different sets of safety rules, in many cases, and can perform work that the utility workers cannot. Also contractors who do violate the safety rules and get caught, as in a fatal industrial accident, can be ejected from the system. The utility simply gets another contractor, with exactly the same personnel as the one the ejected from the system. What changes?

rusty
07-12-2006, 01:42 PM
Brothers and Sisters,

We all know the truth, and today that is “ TO SOME PEOPLE “ denying liability and accountability as well as money means more than limbs and lives! We can hold those accountable, but I can't do ANYTHING unless I am contacted??? If these people can avoid accountability to protect their profits while doing so causes even further harm to the families, why the hell is it wrong to seek justice??? They have whole law firms on retainer WHY CAN'T WE????

IT IS TIME TO STAND AND BE COUNTED!!!

mscheuerer
07-12-2006, 03:30 PM
I think Bob Henriksen says it best here http://www.incident-prevention.com/Aerial/A_Got_Your_Gloves_On.html

If your company, utility, local or whatever you want to call it doesn't start with the most common sense safety rules like gloving and sleeving then your just pi**ing in the wind. Are they that stupid (ELLIOT) not to enforce the most prime safety concept of avoiding secondary contact!?!? Christ in the one osha investigation it was found that he wasn't even wearing anything while being aloft let alone being told about it!?!?!? It amazes me to no end that not only didn't the foreman present get involved but even other workers as well. STOP TAKING THE SHORT-CUTS SO YOUR GUARANTEED TO GO HOME TO YOUR FAMILIES!!! - its that picture on the fence as your going out the gate with the kids depicting a happy family in a caption that says "WE WANT YOU COME HOME" that should mean the world to you! Safety starts with the company and ends with the end user YOU! Unfortunatley it's all too common that your molded out of your companys safety program. If it doesn't exist or lacks then so will you. Stop listening to these bastards and take a stand not only for yourself but for your families sake as well.

EXCERPT FROM PSE&G - EAST COAST REGIONAL T&D - LOCAL 94
Let no mans ghost say "my training let me down"
Glove-it - GROUND-TO-GROUND NO EXCEPTIONS!

Lnemn's Mom
07-12-2006, 06:12 PM
Why is it the company's fault for workers not following the safety rules in place?
It is so easy to blame the "Company" when things go wrong, especially when a worker is killed. Ask yourself... how often do I take a risk trying to save time or make my job easier. I won't get hurt because some of these safety rules are crap. I know what I'm doing and I won't get hurt!

Some accidents are just that "accidents." But far too many of the companies are putting guys on hot work because they are understaffed and don't want to be bothered with the added expense of properly training the potential "lineman." If something happens to one, there are others waiting in the wings to fill that position. More and more, a young man walks in off the street, wanting to find a job that provides a good living for his family. That young man is given perhaps the "basics" but not the array of training that was once the norm for the lineman that are reaching retirement age and vacating their positions to the young ones who deserve to be trained, properly, to take on their role as lineman of the future. Until the companies are given the choice of either properly giving the young men extensive training, or facing a major fine in the event an accident occurs either killing or maiming the employee, the guys will only get minimal instruction. The lives of the young men cannot have a price placed on them, but when only facing a fine of a couple thousand dollars, that is something more companies are willing to "pay" just to keep the profit levels good and the corporate bonuses mounting up.
Everyone out there needs to stick together and put the pressure on the powers that be to put "LIVES BEFORE PROFITS." GIVE OUR YOUNG FATHERS A CHANCE TO SEE THEIR LITTLE ONES GROW UP!
Give the boys (young men) the training they need to work safely. And, if they don't belong in the business, give them the boot. Better to be sent on down the road on foot, than to be carried off on a stretcher. Make this field one that is safer for one and all.

edski104
07-12-2006, 06:32 PM
yes ma'am, I do agree with you about training all the youngsters.the biggest problem is the company pushing to put them in the air as soon as they have seen it done once. "ok ,go to it kid,what are you stupid or something,huh?" they get them any way they can. and when we tell them that the kids arn't ready we are acused of being too cautious about the apes. we do try tho, i can tell you that.I'm not sure,but i would have to hazard a guess that it would be worse in the little non-union shops where production is EVERYTHING. like this elliot co. work till you drop,or worse. but we still need to keep trying.

rusty
07-14-2006, 05:55 AM
Lnemn's Mom,

WELL SAID!!! As one who suffered the ultimate loss your words should be heard across our nation! To many they don't understand or deny the reality many are facing in our trade. Those that are blessed with the right tools and equipment as well as training, some times can't understand the world others are forced to work and live in.

Thanks for caring and sharing!

dbrown20
07-15-2006, 09:33 AM
I must admit in fairness that Davis Elliot probably has hell manning their jobs. PSO in their need for bodies hires ever likely hand they can get from Elliot or any other half-assed contractor they can lay their hands on. I've only worked for PSO 14 years and hardly ever saw an apprentice for a long time. Now at our dock (3 crews), we actually have 4 apprentices. Amazing. They even hired a guy once who had retired from an IOU and was working for RSI. If you desire to get into linework and can pass their little Mickey Mouse test they will hire you. They have finally realized that half their work force will be gone in about 5 more years. There is one small REC in our area who act as a training ground for PSO. Kinda funny. Maybe it's helping the REC hands get more money. The Union works in mysterious ways. dbrown20

Lnemn's Mom
07-15-2006, 05:53 PM
I may be mistaken, but I seem to recollect that in the 70's Elliott use to be union. Again, I say, I may be wrong. But, right or wrong, putting young men on line work when they do not have the knowledge required to be there is WRONG. Its not serving any purpose for anyone, not the crew the young one is working with, not the company, and certainly not the young worker. There has to be some sort of standard put into place that is a guideline for what qualifications go into placing a person into this work. IF THERE ISN'T ONE IN PLACE, then someone needs to get their butts into gear and push for one. We can't afford to continue losing individuals at the rate we are now. Too many sons, fathers and husbands are going out to work to provide for their families, and not returning home. Safety is the number one issue, and it has to be the main focus of all industry related individuals. Having a well trained crew is the way for more of the companies to focus, not where the next one will come from once a tragedy occurs. We have to push for more training for this industry and a stricter guideline or penalties for the companies that fall short. As I said earlier, a small fine is nothing compared to the money they "save" by being able to push the next one out of the schute.
SAFETY BEFORE PRODUCTION AND BONUSES! Our young men are our future!

edski104
07-15-2006, 07:36 PM
david elliot the person was a union hand but when he started his company he went non-union because he knew all the ways of getting around the union rules, having been in the union himself.this was told to me by a very reliable sourse,whom i trust with my life,but not my wife, so it could be true.but he does know how to get around the union well enough,thats for sure,the little weasel. :eek:

lisa
07-15-2006, 10:22 PM
I must say that no matter how you look at it, it is an easy out for Elliot, no matter who was at fault, to say that is was the linemans fault. I was married to Marshall Dean Tomlin for 12 years and have 3 wonderful children by him. We had divorced 7 years ago, but still remained very good friends for the children. I KNOW that Dean was not qualified to be a lineman, but Elliot made sure it happened because that is what Dean wanted. We have yet to hear anything from Elliot or OSHA about the death of Dean. We are having to hire a lawyer for the life insurance, that was left to my children. That is taking money from the children for unnecessary fees. He had them as beneficiaries, but the company will not release the proper papers for the life insurance policy. They suck!!! I dont know if the girlfriend of Victor Morris knows it or not, and you will not be told by Elliot, but if you have not already started, ask for workmans compensation for those poor children that were left. I am getting the paperwork done now and they set it up in a trust fund for the children so that nobody can touch it until the children reach 18 years of age, and with them being so young, that can amount to ALOT if it draws interest from now until they reach 18 years of age!!! It will never replace their father, I know..... but in the years to come you can tell them their Daddy did that for them!! :) I really hate the idea what the first person wrote, blaming the lineman not being properly sleeved up, etc.....but if you aren't trained properly and are taught short cuts from the beginning, then you dont know any better!! Elliot is famous for shortcuts to get a job done quicker. Dean worked for Davis H Elliot from the time he was 16 years old. He washed trucks for them until he was old enough to enter the field. He then was what they called a Grunt....After a couple of years as a Grunt, he became a Operator.....Then last but not least a Lineman, which was his dream because that was what his whole family did...at Davis H Elliot.....His Father, Uncles, Cousins,....and the list goes on and on. His 11 year old son had decided that was what he wanted to do, until it killed his Father. The crew says, like one person mentioned, that it happened so fast.....Whether that is correct or not, I cannot say, but the crew was all friends of Deans and his funeral turn out was half of the crowd being workers of the electric company that he had worked with over his years at Elliot. Nobody, other than the crew and men he worked with over the years, came to the funeral, nor did they send condolences to his children, not even a sympathy card has come from this company. They called Deans father, but never once tried to contact the children. That says a lot for what type of company he worked his ass off for years for, huh????? We may never hear what happened, but at least there are forums like this that let us warn and tell what we know to be true about Elliot, they are out for the money and dont care if there is death of their hard workers to get it. Very truly yours, Lisa.

rusty
07-16-2006, 07:43 AM
Lisa,

I hope and pray you are documenting "EVERYTHING "! If you do get a lawyer ( AN I HOPE YOU ALREADY HAVE ) make sure they have the ability and skills and history to handle one of these kind of cases. After starting S.A.C. 3 years ago I can not tell you how many cases have been brought to me that were mismanaged due to lack of funding or knowledge. Many times people took it to their regular attorney and after the statues of limitations or the funding ran out, were told there was nothing else they could do???? If these Utilities can pay their CEO'S " MILLIONS " in YEARLY bonuses, they dam* well can take care of those who give their LIMBS AND WHOLE LIVES to make those bonuses!!!

My organization sends investigators as soon as we are contacted, after we do the investigation we get with the family and explain what we believe are the options. If we feel we can not help, WE EAT " ALL " THE EXPENSE of our investigation. If we can help and are retained any and all money will come from those responsible!

IT IS NOT WRONG TO SEEK JUSTICE!!!!

mscheuerer
07-16-2006, 11:34 AM
when he started his company he went non-union because he knew all the ways of getting around the union rules, :eek:

Yeah, no sh*t, well thats obvious cause had he stayed union he wouldn't be killing and/or maiming our younger generation lineman. I don't think that they would let this continue. These are EXACTLY why written control barriers and union contracts and safety programs are so well written in order to protect our men and women from incidents just like the one that are being posted. How many more have to die?

edski104
07-16-2006, 07:05 PM
you are right, i did mean that this hurting and killing of our brother linemen has to stop,i was not in any form giving aproval to this little worm of a man who contracts work and then asks his men to do things he himself would never do. shitbag. violating their basic rights to work and form a union and work under a union shop like he has been resisting for who knows how long now just for some extra scratch in his pocket. what a guy. but the real question we need to keep on asking ourselves if how are going to stop these things from happening to those we love and respect and work with.

rusty
07-17-2006, 08:19 AM
To One and All,

Everybody knows my back ground I was non-union for over 25 years and have been Union for the last 8 years, the issue of safety and the limbs and lives OF ALL OUR BROTHERS AND THEIR FAMILIES , " IT DOES NOT MATTER " IF THEY ARE OR ARE NOT UNION! The numbers and the history along with the facts show Union workers have a better shot at coming home a live and in one piece, BUT there are many GOOD BROTHERS ON BOTH SIDES!!! Those of us who have been on both sides know there are some on both sides that due to their biases and beliefs keep all our Brothers from becoming one. Many times we the Union Brothers have become our own worse enemy, because of our back ground and history, WE FORGET others have not had these options nor the history to fall back on! On the other side you have Brothers who have as much self pride as any Union Brother does! They may not know how to do it the Union way, OR MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN NOR HAD THAT OPTION but they get it done!!! Many times as an organizer for my local I stood toe to toe and nose to nose with my own Brothers in my local because of their treatment and beliefs of non-Union workers. Equally I did the same in the field defending the true meaning of Union against those non-Union Brothers who had been on the receiving end of some of our own!!! The longer we battle amongst ourselves , Brother against Brother standing on the hate and biases of the past OUR FUTURE BROTHERS WILL NEVER UNITE! I ask ALL in this trade WHO I CONSIDER " ALL " BROTHERS to remember this. I would rather be talking TO YOU THAN YOUR LADY OR LOVED ONES!!!! Help me turn this around NO MATTER which side of the fence your on! In my belief THERE IS NO FENCE, THERE IS JUST BROTHERS AND LOVED ONES!!!

The problem is those who put profits and production and bonuses " BEFORE " our Brothers lives, families and limbs, PERIOD!!!! Please take the time to explain to your loved ones how important it is to act as soon as one of these tragedies happen! Everyday that goes by more evidences is lost. As sick and sad as it sounds the pictures from the hospital may mean the difference between the family receiving justice or not! Many times due to modern medicine and technology a Brother who survives, 3 years later his appearance will not show the pain and misery he and his loved one had to endure!!

WE CAN " AND ARE " MAKING A DIFFERENCE! I can't do it alone and I can't help if I don’t get called!!

blik43
07-18-2006, 09:49 PM
Lisa,I hope by starting this thread I haven't caused your family any more pain than you have endured already. That was never my intent and please know you have my very deepest sympathy. If I can be of assistance please let me know.

LinemansGF
07-30-2006, 01:30 PM
My boyfriend, Victor Morris, was the Davis Elliot employee killed on June 13. We still have no answers about what exactly happened to him. Also, there are no official reports out yet does anyone know how long these normally take? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jennifer

Lnemn's Mom
07-30-2006, 08:17 PM
Jennifer, it took probably 2 months before the report on Todd's accident was listed. He was killed the 29th of June, and it was mid-September before the info appeared on the OSHA site.