View Full Version : Live work at night
08-24-2006, 10:58 PM
I am seeking information regarding Live Line (Glove & Barrier) work at night and other Work Groups policies. Our company is reviewing this policy. Presently it is the discretion of the work party as to if they believe there is sufficient light to complete works safely, but generally Live Line work is not carried out. Some of the initial guidelines limit the type of works may be completed if the work crew have sufficint lighting.
I am very interested in what other countries and companies are presently doing.
08-28-2006, 07:15 AM
In Western Australia there is NO live line work done at night. That includes gloving,sticking and washing.
08-28-2006, 05:15 PM
I agree lighting is the key, our trucks use 300w pheonix lights, plus LED hard hat lights, newer trucks have till lights,outrigger lights.and anything else to help. we have been doing it for decades. I remenber older trucks that had one light fed off a belt driven generator under the hood, that had to be run at high speed all the time
08-28-2006, 08:23 PM
Artificial light doesn;t provide the same contrast as a line against a naturally lit sky or background though.
Gotta love LED torches for ANY work though. :) I've got an early Petzl Tikka and it rocks.
08-29-2006, 07:17 PM
in Eastern Canada, The hot line techniques are left for the daylight.. this is the Utilities policy. Don.t get me wrong I wouuld'nt mind trying it.
08-30-2006, 11:46 AM
The others have already commented on the need for lighting. However our company also has a humididty restriction on gloving 34.5kv. Due to the fact humidity goes up of a night this means that for 34.5kv we could rarely do gloving of a night. For our 12.5kv lines though there is no problem. We just don't generally because you get more done in daylight than in artificial light. For those interested our humidity restriction on 34.5kv is above 85% humidity we do not glove the line. We have had this restriction since the early 90's.
08-30-2006, 09:13 PM
I can't recall working live line at night, however, we used to do most of our substation maintenance at night.
It always seemed to me that the lights placed on the ground left everything we wanted to see in the dark. Worse still was when we looked down to communicate with another crew member about something we were blinded.
That was in the 60's but now you can get LED lights in glasses frames and the head mounted lights Big Clive mentioned. That would have made a big difference BUT doing line work where the proximity of opposite phases is unknown seems risky.
The Old Lineman
08-31-2006, 10:06 PM
Why would any company want to get their crews to do live line work at night except in very special circumstances like an emergency? It cannot be productive at all and the risks have to increase. Sounds to me like a liability. Except, of course, the companies never really face sanctions when a worker gets injured when they have “planned” the task.
09-01-2006, 06:32 PM
Well, young fella, I guess you haven’t tramped quite as far as you think you have. I’ve been here and there and I have not run into a place yet that makes a general practice of live line work at night. It doesn’t appear to be productive outside of “specialised” circumstances like emergency work, and I have been involved in that.
Why would a company want to do it on a regular basis considering the greatly reduced productivity because of the inability to see as well as the increased risk to workers because of the greatly reduced ability to see?
Maybe I’m missing something here but it ain’t done “safely at night every day” where I have put my trampbag down. Ifn it was I would probably pick it back up again an look for something a little less back woodsy.
Of course if tripple time were involved...
09-01-2006, 07:23 PM
Upon reflection, just exactly what is referred to as “Live Line Work”?
To me “Live Line Work” involves everything from changing out a connector to fanning out phases making ready for stringing new conductor to cutting over a newly run conductor on a dead-end running 3 ways. Considering I have done “live line work” on voltages from 2300v to 500 kV, have used lever lifts and wire tongs from wooden structures, have utilised sticking and gloving methods on an assortment of voltages including rural systems where farms are miles apart fed by lightly loaded single phase to heavily loaded urban systems I need “live line work at night qualified”.
09-01-2006, 09:49 PM
Are you trying to say that moving phases at night is done all the time and that it is safe? I’ll call Bull **** to that.
I never had to drag a job due to any company working live primary at night because it ain’t done, lad. It isn’t productive. Hell sometimes it’s hard enough to keep the phases apart when you can see. Considering you cannot see the structure on either side of you at night unless you were to light them as well, what are you going to do with the structures the other side of them? It could and would take 4 or 5 times as long to check out those structures as it would in day light and you would probably have to add more personnel to the crew to watch the movement.
I know one thing, if I lived in the area where you set up all the gen sets needed to power up all that light and you started all that noise at 10:00PM outside my house and planned on running it for 3 or 4 hours I’d be calling the cops. Most cities, except possibly where you live, have noise bylaws banning construction work from 8PM until 7AM except for emergency work. Routine maintenance doesn’t get an exemption.
Also with the way the utilities are so sensitive to relayed circuits because of “worker error” and are so willing to run a contractor off for too many relayed circuits I can just see how popular routine live line work at night would be.
“Maybe it's going to take a younger generation to do it.” Yea, right.
Perhaps you should read the “Safety Meeting, Accidents and Near Misses” on this site a little better. There is a reason why accidents are on the rise in this trade. Perhaps what you said above is one of the reasons, just maybe, huh?
09-02-2006, 10:12 AM
I've only done it in emergency work or the rare outage that couldn't be done in normal working hours. Technically it wasn't hot work, kill out the bank then work on it or ground out the line and pick it up.
09-02-2006, 10:13 AM
I can honestly say here in NJ when theres an emergency regardless what the time, we tend to work it. Most cases the line crews will stabilize the incident and then have the construction gang disptached with appropriate equipment in order to rectify the situation, whether a pole transfer, rebuild, etc... We have a LOT of pole accidents here in the garden state! This works for both proprietory and non proprietory circuits. I agree with both sides of this conversation though to the degree that whenever safety is an issue everything stops until it is rectified. Too many accidents have happened to our brothers and sisters nationwide in this field. Lets be safe at what we do regardless of when we do it. If you have to question the integrity of your safety factor due to it being dark outside and the possibility exists that you may not be able to see something that you normally would during the day then you shouldn't be doing what your doing and should request whatever resources to be available at your disposal in order to make the work scene safe. Good luck regardless.
09-02-2006, 12:21 PM
As I said, and even TRAMPLINEMAN agrees, live line work at night is less productive and increases risk. So outside “specialized circumstances” (such as emergency work or where increased crews and lighting are used along with additional planning) it is not done on a general basis.
09-02-2006, 04:09 PM
i guess everyone is agreeing now. it's in our contract here."after sundown,crews may perform emergency restoration, pre-arranged outages, and streetlight maintenance.". restoration never comes into play as we do it all the time. but changing out cutouts at 3 am when you can do it the next day? whats the hurry? is that normal linework,putting on jumpers and other fun stuff. why would you do something that could wait till morning. there are always gonna be times that you need to work the **** hot at night,like swamps. gotta be done.just we try not to make a habit of it.and thats in a lot more places than i care to admit being. stay safe,brothers. ;)
09-06-2006, 07:38 PM
Line hose (pigs) are your best friend at night. Makes the lines real easy to see.
09-06-2006, 08:55 PM
Hmm, dayglow hose or that stuff that charges up from light and glows for a while. If the insulators were made of the same stuff you could turn off all the lights and work completely in the dark. :)
(That's a joke by the way!)
09-14-2006, 02:54 AM
Thanks to everyone for their input. I should have stated in the initial letter, that the live line (G&B up to 22kv) work was only limited tasks, changing insulators, retieing conductors, and tasks that can be completed within 1 hour, minor tasks in emergency situations.
It has been suggested that this would not be an expected task from management. And it is still the discretion of the lineys onsite if they will tackle the job at night.
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