PDA

View Full Version : Jim McCoy accident



smccoy
10-11-2006, 11:41 AM
September 28, 2006 the day my world change forever. Jim McCoy was killed at work, he had been a lineman for almost 30 years. Jim was my husband for 14 years, we divorced March 26, I only though that was the worst day of my life, I was wrong. Jim has 2 children a 24 year old son and a 30 year old daughter who have turned their backs on me now their father is gone. So not only have I lost my best friend but I also have lost my family. All because of a co-worker was not paying attention to his job. Jim worked for MOPUB, FPL, and Amerin in the last 15 years, so if you worked with him at any time please email me at sherrisbirds@yahoo.com.



James Keith "Jimmy" McCoy
1960 - 2006
Mr. James Keith “Jimmy” McCoy, age 46, a resident of Lawson, Missouri, died Thursday, September 28, 2006 in St. Louis, Missouri as the result of an occupational accident.

He was born January 16, 1960 in DeQueen, Arkansas to Burl “Runt” and Wilma Todd Warford. He was a journeyman lineman for Ameren Power Company.

Mr. McCoy was preceded in death by his father.

He is survived by his mother, Wilma McCoy Warford of Horatio, Arkansas; one daughter, DeAnna Lutjen of Oak Grove, Missouri; one son, Jared McCoy of Oak Grove, Missouri; one brother, Dale McCoy of DeQueen, Arkansas; three sisters, Pam Davis of Lodi, Arkansas, Cindy McCoy of Hayworth, Oklahoma and Sharon Wax of Horatio, Arkansas: five grandchildren, Spencer, Hayden and Avery Lutjen, Bentley and Mackenzie McCoy all of Oak Grove, Missouri and a number of nieces and nephews.

Funeral Services for Mr. McCoy will be held at 10:00 a.m., Monday, October 2, 2006 in the Wilkerson Funeral Home Chapel with Bro. Alan Davis officiating. Burial will follow in the West Otis Cemetery.

Lnemn's Mom
10-18-2006, 07:54 PM
Sherri, my prayers go out to you. You and your children are grieving. Each their own way. What the kids (and yes, they are still kids) don't realize is that you all need each other now more than ever. Grief does strange things to everyone. Each suffer in their own way. But, losses are best dealt with when families stay together. It will come, just give it time. If you need a shoulder to lean on, you've got everyone here, and please, feel free to contact me at any time.
Patty

smccoy
10-19-2006, 10:04 AM
Patty, Thank you so much for your kind words. My wish is that other lineman will learn from Jim's death. He was killed by a co-worker that he knew was unsafe but worked with him anyway. His co-works at Ameren UE in Excelsior Springs know of his reservation about working with this man and so did his company boss but he was job sited and made to work with this man. I don't understand how this can happen??? I hope that all lineman will learn from this, do anything you can if you know a co-worker is unsafe DO NOT work with them, your life is not worth it!!! We have 5 beautiful grandchildren without their Papa. I pray this will never happen to another family!
Please share Jim's story to every lineman you know! I believe that being a lineman is the most dangerous job there is and as a family we know this and lived with it for almost 30 years. Jim saw many accidents in those years but they were just that accidents. What happened to Jim was no accident, he was murder by a unsafe co-worker who knew the right and safe way to do things and just didn't care, take the short cuts and get the job done as fast as passable.
Thank you again for your kind works!
Sherri McCoy

Hp Thompson
11-04-2006, 12:11 PM
Sherri,
I knew Jim, I worked with him on storm jobs with the company, he was liked by everyone he worked with, but I’m appalled by what you are saying about the accident. I know you are hurting about Jim passing, all of us at Ameren feels your pain and we’ll miss him, he had a great since of humor. There was six (6) line worker at this job, two (2) of them was doing traffic control, one on the butt of the pole, one operating the truck, two getting material off the truck while the boom was being raise to pick up the pole. (Six lineman didn’t see the line above them, they wasn’t going to set the pole but just to frame the pole and set it back down on the ground). All of these line worker are safe workers, Ameren takes safety to the max, once a week we have safety meetings, once a month ACT meets, twice or more a month supervisors come out to the job for their JBO’s, Ameren has safety fairs, safety training for all workers yearly . Jim was not murdered by his co-worker, Jim was in a tragic accident, which all of his co-worker will never forget, some of them are still having a hard time with it, they are not sleeping, (remember his co-worker have family to and they feel the pain of Jim accident) not eating and living that day over and over in there minds. They need support also. Sherri please forgive the co-workers, Jim would want it that way. With deepest regards, Hp

smccoy
11-04-2006, 10:38 PM
Please do not tell me how Jim would have wanted it..........Jim and talked about the the co-worker who was opperating the truck that day and he told me as well as his friends and co-workers that this man was unsafe. He was murdered by this man. Jim had been a lineman scence the age of 18 and I believe what he told me. Jim mad a mistake that day by working this man! Yes, I am hurting, the lost of my best friend of 17 years but I'm outranged that you or any one would tell me what Jim would have wanted. I hope no one that every know Jim will forget when it's was all said and done Jim McCoy was a safe worker that his co-workers could always count on to be there for them. You are right about 4 of men Jim was working with that day and my heart goes out to them and their familys. Ameren is just like all big companys, the saftey meeting, fairs and ACT meeting are done for the saftey of the company and not the workers. I hope and pray you do not believe what you have said here, because if you do then your gard is down and you are just asking for a tragic to happen to you and your family.
Sherri McCoy

tramp67
11-05-2006, 09:05 PM
Sherri, my deepest sympathies for you and your family. I imagine Jim told you many things about his job, co-workers, etc., and for him to tell you he felt
unsafe working with a particular individual probably meant that he really felt strongly about that person. Telling you things like that would make you worry about him, and I'm sure he wouldn't put that on you if he didn't feel strongly about a situation. I don't know all that happened, but I hope the other people he was working with will tell you the whole story, if for no other reason than to help put your mind at ease. Linemen that pay attention to unsafe co-workers are usually ones that are very good at this profession, and generally don't make assumptions about unsafe workers on a whim.

smccoy
11-06-2006, 02:57 PM
Thank you for your kind words, Jim was a Lineman through and through, he started his appenteceship just after his 18th birthday,his older brother was an Lineman and now works for the union. The Brotherhood of the IBEW was second only to Jim's two children. Jim's only son at a very early age would climb poles with him and was in the bucket often so at the age of 21 I was not suprise that Jared started his apprenticeship. With all of this said I hope that you and other can understand that when Jim spoke out about an unsafe co-worker it was a big deal! The reason that I have chose to speak out about this is because I don't want another family to go through what my children are going through. At the ages of 24 and 30 they do not have a father. Together they have 5 children and one on the way and my Grandchildren will grow up with there Papa. My words have been harsh towards the man who killed Jim, but he should have not been on the job, and I hope he never returns. I guess I should feel sorry for this man because as I have been told he is having a hard time with this, not eating or sleeping. But I can't feel anything for him, I just hope he does the right thing and never returns to work as a lineman.
Thank you again for the kind works and I will alway keep Jim's IBEW Brother in my prayes.
Sherri McCoy

smccoy
11-07-2006, 01:45 PM
Over the years Jim had lost many co-worker, the last time was a few years ago and he was just driving up on the job site and saw every thing as it happened, the man died in him arms. So I know how this has inpacted your life. Many years ago before I meet Jim while he was in apprentice school a very young man fell off a pole and died. I have heard the story and been there for the sleepless night, the mood swings, the long night of him not talking because it hurt to much to think about it and for the days he need to tell way more than I needed to hear about what had happened. I pray for you and your family that you husband will leave this line of work. He is still young and you have your whole life a head of you. Our son is in his 3rd year of his apprenticeship, and the timing has not been right to chat with him about this, but he has 2 children ages 5, 2, and one on the way in Jan. A pay check is not worth you life.
Before I meet Jim, 17 years ago, I never thought twice about the men that were working on the side of the road. But today I understand that there is not one aspect of our day to day lives that they do not touch. There lives are at risk each day so we can live this modren life.
Life is very short and changes without notice. Thank you for sharing with me the story of your family and for the kind works. Some times it helps to know that there is someone who understands!
Sherri

LinemansGF
11-07-2006, 07:23 PM
Sherri,
I'm so sorry for your loss, if there is anything I can do or if you ever need anyone to talk to please message or give me a call 304-481-4983. My boyfriend was a lineman that was killed June 13 of this year. You said that Jim was murdered, I without a doubt know what you mean, my boyfriend was murdered too. Vic and I had the same kind of conversations that you and Jim had from the sounds of it. Vic had trouble with his foremans, was being made to do things he wasn't and hadn't been trained to do, and was being told by his foreman he would get his ass kicked if he didn't do these things. Our talks still stick in my head and always will for the rest of my life. In that aspect I know what your going through. What goes around comes around, so the people responsible for Jim getting killed will eventually pay, just like the foreman's that killed Vic will. If you ever need or want to talk please get ahold of me.

Jennifer

smccoy
11-08-2006, 02:01 PM
Jennifer, Thank you so much, your understand and kind words mean a lot to me and my family. My heart is very sad for you and your loved ones because of your loss also. The men we loved lives were cut short at the hands of a co-worker, nothing will ever take that pain away but the pain is starting to turn in anger. I hope you were as outranged as I am at the person (HP Thompson) who tried to tell me how Jim would have wanted things. He also tried to tell Jim was not murdered. If Vic and Jim would have been killed by someone being unsafe with a gun, driving in a known unsafe way, or did something knowingley that would take there life then they would be charged with at least 2nd degree murder. But not in this case and I do not understand that. Every day I get at least 3 email from family or friends who loved ones were killed on the job by an unsafe co-worker. Something has to be done!!!! I fear for my Sons life everday.
Jennifer, I'm so sorry for you loss, feel free to email me.
Sherri McCoy
sherrisbirds@yahoo.com

BigClive
11-09-2006, 04:05 PM
Its a life for a single guy that likes danger and has no wife or children.

You know? I actually agree with that. Every time I see a post about a linemans death I immediately think of the impact it has on their family.

When a single person like me dies the only people affected are remaining family.

smccoy
11-09-2006, 05:02 PM
You know? I actually agree with that. Every time I see a post about a linemans death I immediately think of the impact it has on their family.

When a single person like me dies the only people affected are remaining family.


BigClive, Your life inpacts much more than your remaining family so would your death, I watched Jim lose many co-workers and each time he was changed, the affect you have on the people you work with and the bond and leave of trust is something I will never understand. Jim never know his mothers birthday, but he always know who he had worked a storm with and their work history and something about there familys. You belong to a Brotherhood that is built on trust. That is why the wifes, mother and loved one that have lost the men they love so much find it hard to understand when one of your own, takes someones life because they are being un-safe.
I hope you and the other Lineman who read this know that our prayes are with you each and every day.
Sherri McCoy

tramp67
11-09-2006, 07:49 PM
Sherri and Jennifer, I feel real sorry for both of your losses. I want to let you both know how much I appreciate the understanding you two have of the day to day risks and dangers we work around, and the comraderie there is among fellow linemen. We may have our days we argue, fight, or disagree with each other, but most all of us deep down care about our brothers out there, and not only are looking out for our own safety, but are doing our best to keep our brothers safe as well and make sure everyone goes home at the end of the day. It is really sad to hear about anyone getting injured or killed in this profession, and it makes me angry to hear about "accidents" that happened because of poor management, lack of training, or careless/unsafe individuals. If I feel strongly about a coworker being unsafe, I try to either refuse to work with the individual or at least have him in a position where the danger to the rest of the crew is minimal. I also let others know why I don't want to work with such individuals. It's tough, I've been fired once for letting management know about dangerous people on another crew, but I don't have any regrets. You are right, we need to stand up to coworkers that are putting our lives at risk, management also needs to listen to us. If there's anything I can do for either of you, please let me know. Take care of yourselves and your families.

Lnemn's Mom
11-10-2006, 11:22 AM
Sherri and Jennifer, I feel real sorry for both of your losses. I want to let you both know how much I appreciate the understanding you two have of the day to day risks and dangers we work around, and the comraderie there is among fellow linemen. We may have our days we argue, fight, or disagree with each other, but most all of us deep down care about our brothers out there, and not only are looking out for our own safety, but are doing our best to keep our brothers safe as well and make sure everyone goes home at the end of the day. It is really sad to hear about anyone getting injured or killed in this profession, and it makes me angry to hear about "accidents" that happened because of poor management, lack of training, or careless/unsafe individuals. If I feel strongly about a coworker being unsafe, I try to either refuse to work with the individual or at least have him in a position where the danger to the rest of the crew is minimal. I also let others know why I don't want to work with such individuals. It's tough, I've been fired once for letting management know about dangerous people on another crew, but I don't have any regrets. You are right, we need to stand up to coworkers that are putting our lives at risk, management also needs to listen to us. If there's anything I can do for either of you, please let me know. Take care of yourselves and your families.
The men working together and sticking together when they know of either unsafe workers or conditions is what is going to make a difference in this field. As long as there are those who are willing to cover it up, there will be accidents. But, if the men stand together and do so in unity, there has to be a difference made. The life you save may be your own, so don't think "oh, its never going to happen to me, and because I've stood up for the company, it will look out for me" Wrong Answer. Unfortunately, the days of the loyalty going both ways has been replaced by the company that puts more emphasis on profits than it does employee training and safe working practices. This is not true of all companies, but I think we all know which ones fall into this category. Its just something that makes it look bad on all employers, and that isn't our intentions. We want to see those who put their profits before the safety of the men held accountable.

NoName
11-11-2006, 12:11 AM
I don't think any company wants one of their employees to get injured or killed. The theory of the company not caring is ridiculous.

Where I once worked they had put stickers on the mirrors that said, You are looking at the one most responsible for you going home tonight. I firmly believe that I am at least equally responsible for my safety.

Yes the company pushes for production. They don't tell me to take shortcuts or do it in an unsafe manner. That would be up to the man performing the job to do it correctly. The company can ship me off if they don't like it.

Linemen take shortcuts all the time. They see other linemen get away with things a thousand times. They get away with it a thousand times too. It doesn't make it safe or right, but they do it and it is their choice to do it that way. Not the company.

Anyone that would order someone to do something unsafe is a criminal. Anyone who would do the unsafe act is stupid. Anyone doing that job and not knowing what they are doing is foolish.

Accidents happen. It is a very dangerous job and we must be vigillant every moment on the job. It is the nature of the industry we are in. That's why it is not a job for everyone. That's why we are trained the way we are.

I do not need a safety man to tell me something is dangerous. They are basically there to protect the companies interrests. An insurance issue. Them keeping us safe is more for the companies premiums not for our sakes.

Companies provide training. Some a lot. Some not a lot. You can make a man sit in training but you cannot make him learn or pay attention to what's being taught unless he wants to. You can rant about the training a company provides all you want. The man has to want to learn.

If the scenario of the truck boom being put into the primary is accurate, then that is something that is a very common incident throughout our industry. It is AN ACCIDENT! It is the linemans job to look up before comong into contact with anything with a boom extended out. Sorry but it is the truth.

It is a basic rule that I hear taught to first step apprentices right up to the new Journeyman on the job. It is simply a momentary brain lapse or the fact that you have done it and gotten away with it so many times you become lax with it.

If you work for a company that has so many injuries that you cannot sleep at night, then you might want to look for another company. It would be a sign that the workers there do a lot of shortcuts and the company does not care to stop them.

I am sorry for any person who gets hurt or killed. I feel for their family. I truly do! They are the reason we all go to work.

I am realistic though. I've seen a lot in over 21 years of linework. I have seen enough to know that I will be watching myself and my pole buddy. I cannot dpend on any more than that. It is ashame but it is the way it is in this world.

lewisgwen2
11-13-2006, 07:26 AM
Sherri,
I'm so sorry for your loss, if there is anything I can do or if you ever need anyone to talk to please message or give me a call 304-481-4983. My boyfriend was a lineman that was killed June 13 of this year. You said that Jim was murdered, I without a doubt know what you mean, my boyfriend was murdered too. Vic and I had the same kind of conversations that you and Jim had from the sounds of it. Vic had trouble with his foremans, was being made to do things he wasn't and hadn't been trained to do, and was being told by his foreman he would get his ass kicked if he didn't do these things. Our talks still stick in my head and always will for the rest of my life. In that aspect I know what your going through. What goes around comes around, so the people responsible for Jim getting killed will eventually pay, just like the foreman's that killed Vic will. If you ever need or want to talk please get ahold o
Jennifer Jen is so right I'am the mother of the 25 yr old that got KILLED we have got answer but now i wish i would have not ask things that as a mother of my baby boy is was not right the thing they did to my son my son begged for 45 min. for help now was they if you call the boss help ha. :mad:

lewisgwen2
11-13-2006, 07:45 AM
My
smccoy,

Thank you for the reply. I agree with you 100%, I too used to think the guys on the side of the road had a easy Job. I thought when the power went out that someone went and turned on the switch,seriously I had no idea how dangerous this occupation is. My husband went into this line of work cause he wanted to make enough money so that I could stay at home with our children,and he loved the outdoors. He did have a passion for being a lineman, he is young and alot of older guys really think he has the gift to be a lineman, they respect him and his abilities in the trade. I had no idea how dangerous it was until he was in the work, I knew the dangers, but you think it wont happen to him , he is safe and checks his work over and over and his theory is always look out for #1 ( being yourself). But the day he called me and said there has been a accident, I am ok but the guy doesn't look like he will make it. That day changed our lives forever, he went through something that I feared all these years. I saw the passion slowly die, to see my husband in this state was hard, he does not show emotion ,but this shook him up really bad, he would go in a daze and i would have to shake him, and when i asked him what he was thinking about, he would get emotional and say he could not get his face out of his mind. He was seeing it all the time, he had to help while another worker did CPR on the guy, so it was haunting him. If it wasnt for his manager and all the crew ,he would be in severe depression. I have 2 young boys and they look up to there daddy, they think its so cool that daddy "puts the lights on",and climbs the poles. I tell them they can be anything they want to be, but deep down a lineman is the last thing i want them to be. My husband works out of town and is home only 2 weeks every 2 months, so i fear that call. Its a life for a single guy that likes danger and has no wife or children. No man should be away from his family as long as they are sometimes, I try to keep it together for my kids and show a front for my family and friends, they don'y know how I raise 2 boys without my husband home all the time. I want him home,I want to burn him dinners and go to our kids school plays together,but being married to a lineman is not easy on the famiyl life. But he is working hard to get out of it, he cannot just leave his job right now as his income is all we have right now, but within a year he will be out of it completly. Your son is young and hasn't been much around the real dangers yet, my husband was around 21 when he was doing his apprentiship and here you are not allowed on a pole barely as a apprentice, they are strict here , BUT the contractors do not think twice about it, if they are down a man they will get the apprentice to do something he should not do. As long as he knows to always double check everything, and look after himself at all times. I think the money in this occupation is what brings the young guys in , it brought my husband into it, but now he has 2 young boys 5 and 7 yrs old and he is getting out for them.I will pray for you and your family. It's nice to know that people understand what your going through, when i feel like the only lineman wife at home alone all the time,i come on here and read the forums and it reasures me. Thank you again
My son was a dad that only wanted the best for his girls the best was not comming home I to sit and read this because of his death my family is torn apart so If you can get your husband off the lines please do the money is not worth it and no one on that job when it comes down to it will be his friend or be there for you or your children I find out the hard way.

rusty
11-14-2006, 08:14 AM
NONAME,

You are not addressing "" THE WHOLE TRUTH "" ! You may be blessed with working for a good company, THAT IS NOT SO FOR EVERYBODY, FACT!!!! Many times I have stood and argued against the "" FALSE EXCUSE "" that ultimately it is the employees responsibility for his own safety!!! This "" IS ONLY TRUE "" if the employee has the skills, training and supervison and trade knowledge to do so, FACT!!! This "" IS A LIE "" when Brothers are put in danger NOT KNOWING ANY BETTER! Or when FORCED to produce at the cost of their jobs, and the support for their families!!!

NOT EVERYBODY IS "" BLESSED "" WITH THE SAME WORKING CONDITIONS! FACT!!! BUT EVERY BROTHER AND HIS LOVED ONES PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE WHEN THINGS GO WRONG, FACT!!!

Lnemn's Mom
11-15-2006, 03:49 PM
I don't think any company wants one of their employees to get injured or killed. The theory of the company not caring is ridiculous.

Anyone that would order someone to do something unsafe is a criminal. Anyone who would do the unsafe act is stupid. Anyone doing that job and not knowing what they are doing is foolish.

Accidents happen. It is a very dangerous job and we must be vigillant every moment on the job. It is the nature of the industry we are in. That's why it is not a job for everyone. That's why we are trained the way we are.

Companies provide training. Some a lot. Some not a lot. You can make a man sit in training but you cannot make him learn or pay attention to what's being taught unless he wants to. You can rant about the training a company provides all you want. The man has to want to learn.

If the scenario of the truck boom being put into the primary is accurate, then that is something that is a very common incident throughout our industry. It is AN ACCIDENT! It is the linemans job to look up before comong into contact with anything with a boom extended out. Sorry but it is the truth.

It is a basic rule that I hear taught to first step apprentices right up to the new Journeyman on the job. It is simply a momentary brain lapse or the fact that you have done it and gotten away with it so many times you become lax with it.

If you work for a company that has so many injuries that you cannot sleep at night, then you might want to look for another company. It would be a sign that the workers there do a lot of shortcuts and the company does not care to stop them.

I am sorry for any person who gets hurt or killed. I feel for their family. I truly do! They are the reason we all go to work.

I am realistic though. I've seen a lot in over 21 years of linework. I have seen enough to know that I will be watching myself and my pole buddy. I cannot dpend on any more than that. It is ashame but it is the way it is in this world.

Hats off to you! You apparently have been lucky enough to be employed by a company that cares about their employees! That is really great! But, there are companies out there that do push for production over safety. Those companies go out and make their money by underbidding the others, they push the employees to get the work done as quickly as possible, cut corners, if they even offer training, it bare minimum! The individuals put in the position of supervising the line worker have a MAXIMUM of perhaps 4 to 5 years of experience (from the day they hire in with no training/or experience to that position), and they are the foremen on the crews! It is criminal to put guys on a pole and force them to work hot when they have had no training at all. It is criminal to put men out on the jobs and not have a properly trained "foreman" with many years of experience as a journeyman lineman working that crew. It is criminal to put production before the safety of the men!
I pray that you or someone you love is never put in a job that puts your life on the line. The young boys coming out to work line work are doing so to make a decent living for their families. They do the jobs they as they are taught, and have been brought up to believe that safety is a part of the job site. Only in this day and time, a lot of the contractors out there are foregoing the training of the men and these boys are inexperienced enough to think they are receiving the training they are suppose to in order to finally be in the position of being a lineman. Only, when corners are cut to make profits higher, the boys are being put in danger. If you have not received the proper training, you have no clue that the way you are performing the job is dangerous! Only after it is too late, and then there is nothing that can be done.
I pray that someday the companies will be forced to put their training back into place. That the men who go out are properly trained, and if they are not "cut out to be linemen" given their walking papers. Loyalty should go both ways, but I question that value (NOT ALL COMPANIES) in many of the contractors where we are seeing the highest number of fatalities and injuries. Numbers have a way of speaking volumes!

NoName
11-16-2006, 02:10 AM
I have worked for many companies, and all over the East Coast. Normal working conditions and storm work. I have not worked for one company in my 21 years in line work.

The companies I worked for in outside construction did NO TRAINING. You came to work and worked. We didn't get any safety training or nothing like that. We got the occasional visit from the safety man that did a safety inspection. He didn't know anything but cones and chocks.

The training I received from day 1 in my apprenticeship was from Journeymen and older apprentices on my crew. Once a month I did a saturday at the training yard and did correspondance books in the evenings after work.

I didn't get any special training. I got trained by professional linemen on the job. 4 years worth. That was my schooling. I don't know what more you think people should get.

When I topped out I was made a crew foreman. There is no special training for that. A Journeyman lineman is suppose to be qualified to run crews. He is suppose to be able to do everything on a job site.

All this training you claim is needed is provided in the I.B.E.W. Apprenticeships. The ones who are lacking are the non-union people. They get a fraction of what they need. That is their fault because after a certain point in their careers they need to know that the training is better in the union side of the business.

Now a person with common sense in the line trade should know if something is hazardous and should not be done. If he doesn't know what he is doing, then HE SHOULD NEVER DO IT! Plain and simple.

No job is worth dying for. Your family gets no benefit from your death. That is common sense. These guys need to grow a set of balls and say no. Getting run off for refusing to work unsafe is better than dead isn't it. Is that common sense? I would say it is.

No instead you find people who are job scared and not too bright doing these things, and occasionally you hear of something bad happening. I'm sorry but life is hard and that is the truth of it.

Rusty can chirp about the companies responsibility all he wants. The fact is the man with the rubber gloves on is ultimately responsible for his own safety. Not the man screaming from the ground. Not the management.

If someone gave you a loaded gun and said, "Shoot yourself in the head!" Would that be his fault if you did? It is the same thing.

I am not speaking of situations such as a line coming hot by a careless act of a foreman. Some things are definitely criminal. But you cannot blame everything on others all the time.

I do not want to sound harsh and uncaring for all those who have died and their families. It sucks big time! I never want to see it happen again. The workforce has to quit looking to the company to provide for their safety and training. They need to go out and grab it if it isn't being provided to them.

It is up to them if they want to have the training and it's not provided. They cannot sit back and say "well the company should do it and screw them I won't do it myself either."

Plain and simple. If it is going to get you hurt don't do it. Everyone who has half an idea knows if something is not right and should investigate it a bit more before doing it. COMMON SENSE needs to prevail.

rusty
11-16-2006, 10:58 AM
NONAME,

While I respect your right to your OPINION, it in NO WAY REFLECTS THE REALITIES "" MANY "" DEAL WITH, FACT!

Your east cost training and experince was PROVIDED by those who came BEFORE YOU! I was the assistant BA for my local for 5 years. One of my responsibilities was serving the OutSide Memmbership. As you are aware Henry Miller ( A LINEMAN ) started the IBEW back in 1891. At that time the death rate for linemen was 50%! So your way of thinking IS IT WAS ALL THOSE BROTHERS FAULT TOO??? I CALL BS!

Your BLESSED with the part of the country your in! To blame others YOU HAVE "" NO IDEA "" ABOUT THEIR SITUATIONS, IS EXACTLY WHY "" MANY "" AND THE COMPANIES THEY WORK FOR CAN "" MANIPULATE "" THEM TO TURN THEIR BACKS ON THE "" BROTHERHOOD "" , FACT! Correct me if I'm wrong but " OUR PREAMBLE " states some of the following! "" To Organize ALL workers in the entire Electrical industry, to promote reasonable methods of work, and to cultivate feelings of friendship amoung those in our Industry, to assist in sickness and distress!!!! NOW TELL ME AGAIN, how those who "" DON'T " have the luxury of 100+ years of history and sacrifice by those BEFORE THEM! Are to use their common sense and NO TRADE KNOWLEDGE being taught by the unskilled are suppose to grow a set of balls, and how YOUR OPINION AND POSITION SPREADS " FRIENDSHIP AND BROTHERHOOD""???????

I was NON-UNION for over 25+ years, have been UNION for over 10 years now. Have worked cost to coast and 7 foriegn countries. THE FACT A BROTHERS IS OR IS NOT UNION "" DOES NOT "" JUSTIFY KILLING ANYBODY!! Being UNION "" DOES "" give a Brother a "" BETTER "" chance of surviving, FACT! But to claim others need to grow a set of "" BALLS "", IS PRUE BS!!!

The bottom line is, THIS IS NOT A UNION OR NON-UNION ISSUE! Would being Union help, YES! But never should ANYBODY turn their backs on "" ANY BROTHER WRONGFULLY MAIMED OR KILLED "" nor their wives and babies left behind "" REGARDLESS "" IF THEY ARE OR ARE NOT!!! Those companies KILLING AND MAIMING BROTHERS "" SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY ALL!!!! And if we stand together IT CAN HAPPEN!!

US & CA Tramp
11-16-2006, 02:15 PM
AMEN Rusty!!

Those of us that have been around a few years understand exactly what your saying. A journeyman lineman should go through training for the Foreman position before he becomes one! There is a lot more to the job than "Noname" things there is, But then the ink has not dryed on his ticket yet so how would he know.

tramp67
11-16-2006, 07:06 PM
The day I completed my IBEW apprenticeship, I was offered a foreman position. I turned it down. I've been foreman on some occasions, but I turn it down more than I accept it. I am a tramp lineman, and have as much loyalty to any one contractor as they have to me - generally not much. I see contractors making brand new journeymen be foreman on jobs they have no clue about. There should be a minimum time as a journeyman before running a crew, as well as a requirement for management training so these people know what is right and wrong. Another thing I've noticed is nepotism runs rampant amongst contractors. GF's putting sons, brothers, other relatives in charge regardless of experience or qualifications. If they want their kin to make more money, give them a bonus or something, don't put them in a position where they are putting other peoples' lives at risk just so they can make more money. On many jobs, I try to find out what the foreman wants to accomplish for the day, and then go by what my experiences have taught me, instead of getting details from the foreman. Too many times, they don't have a clue and are just guessing. Unfortunately, many apprentices and new journeymen don't know any better and have to follow poorly thought out plans.

Lnemn's Mom
11-16-2006, 07:31 PM
The day I completed my IBEW apprenticeship, I was offered a foreman position. I turned it down. I've been foreman on some occasions, but I turn it down more than I accept it. I am a tramp lineman, and have as much loyalty to any one contractor as they have to me - generally not much. I see contractors making brand new journeymen be foreman on jobs they have no clue about. There should be a minimum time as a journeyman before running a crew, as well as a requirement for management training so these people know what is right and wrong. Another thing I've noticed is nepotism runs rampant amongst contractors. GF's putting sons, brothers, other relatives in charge regardless of experience or qualifications. If they want their kin to make more money, give them a bonus or something, don't put them in a position where they are putting other peoples' lives at risk just so they can make more money. On many jobs, I try to find out what the foreman wants to accomplish for the day, and then go by what my experiences have taught me, instead of getting details from the foreman. Too many times, they don't have a clue and are just guessing. Unfortunately, many apprentices and new journeymen don't know any better and have to follow poorly thought out plans.
No truer words have ever been spoken. Someone can't be blamed for doing something wrong if they don't know its wrong. The only way that the injuries and deaths are going to be brought back down is for ALL workers and foremen to have the proper training. The guys don't know they are doing something wrong, if this is the only way they have been taught. And an experienced journeyman lineman with YEARS and YEARS of experience (not 2 or 5 years total) is the only one who is qualified to be a foreman. When you put people in positions that they are not properly trained for, its a warming bed for accidents to happen. You don't take a guy off the street and put a pair of boots on his feet, hand him his hooks and tell him he's ready to work the hot stuff. And, you don't run short of men for a crew one day and ask a guy if he'd like to move up to either a lineman position (if all he's been doing is truck driving or ground work). On the same note, you don't take a guy with a couple years under his belt, and "promote" him to a foreman position.

mscheuerer
11-17-2006, 08:47 AM
Sounds to me if thats the case then there should be more Lobbying against these companies for proper safety training and promotional values, not withstanding the compensation problems to the families that arise or the admission of guilt after the fact. If these guy's weren't properly trained and it can be proven then thats a major problem.

Orgnizdlbr
11-17-2006, 09:06 AM
Rusty, you are 100% right on this issue. There are employers out there who dont have a care about the workers safety. Safety has become a joke in this trade. Inexperienced people performing tasks they have no clue about and should in no way shape or form are qualified to do.

The onus is on the employer. OSHA has become castrated by the current administration in Washington. All for the benefit of the employer, it is incumbent on the employer to provide training to its employees. If the employer does not provide training and exposes the workers to hazards they are not qualified to do or has no experience in, the employer is neglegent in its duty to the worker and MUST be held accountable and liable!

ken lindsey
11-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Sherri,I am very sorry for your loss. I,ve worked with Jim on storms and various other times. I had a few beers after work with him at substation/switching training a couple of years back. Jim was a good man and knowledgable lineman.
Ive wanted to respond to this post for sometime but was unsure of what to say except sorry for you and yours.
H.P.,who responded already to your post,is also a good and knowledgable lineman thats been around a long time and seen alot.Im sure he didntmean to upset anyone. Like H.P.,I dont think anyone out here would do anything they thought unsafe or anything to harm a brother.(fellow lineman).
After OSHA and AMEREN finalize there investigations into this accident,I think a lot of your questions will be answered.We all hope for the best,In Jims memory,and for his family.
Its just my opinion,but I think AMEREN is a good and safe CO. to work for.I believe our Mngt.is trying to improve the safety environment for everyones benefit,and have available,training on related subjects.
I know local Mngt. is trying to avoid finger pointing and working hard to stop accidents,injuries and deaths like Jims with many good ideas. Corporate could learn from this way of thinking.

There is alot of debate going on here about responsibilities and blame by who seem to be qualified lineman with different opinions.
NONAME; When it comes to working safely and safety training,I agree with you and also believe that Iam a least EQUALLY responsable for my safety.(and the safety of those Im working with.)
You wrote that we,as lineman,should be ableto do everything on the job after TOPPING OUT.We all know lineman continue to learn well after making journeyman lineman,and hopefully through out there entire career,every day.
I dont know anyone who claims to know everything in our field.
We also all know there are hazards in our field that common sense alone doesn,t cover.(capacitance,backfeed,circulating current,and even the equipment we work with,to name a few.)
It s just my opinion,however,I think a lineman needs common sense,training,and EXPERIENCE... As a lineman i,ve learnt alot by my own mistakes,but onlyafter extensive training and experienced lineman who kept an eye on me as I was coming up. Out here what you dont know,CAN kill you,,and sometimes even if you do know..

RUSTY: Ive heard when the IBEW was founded by Henry Miller,there were no safe work practices to go by.The electrical industry was still in its infant stage,and no one really knew or fully understood the hazards..Things were changing quickly,anyone with a heartbeat was hired to do linework,often with inferior and/or homemade tools.I understand things were hard in those days,and even knowing the risks,men waited in line to get a job.Alot of them died.I think Henry Miller himself died of electrocution on the job a few years after founding the IBEW.
We as a working force of linman need people like you watching out,however, its not allways a matter of whos at fault,the employee or employer,but why the hell did it happen at all. We need to learn why so it dosnt happen again...after all,were all still working on those safe work practices,adding to them all the time.
Hopefully the more accidents and near misses we hear about,we will learn from and not just our own misstakes.Some accidents are foreseable,,some arent...
Im a lineman and damn proud to say so,as was Jim McCoy.

rusty
11-20-2006, 08:23 AM
ken lindsey ,

Brother in our trade today ones life and limbs may only be a matter of what part of the country you work in. And to me that is PURE BS! Due to the manpower needs of our industry and the fact there are fewer and fewer elders left in our trade, many are getting moved up way to quick. There are MANY good contractors and companies that are trying to do the right thing! But at the same time there are SOME that the only way to make them understand is to make it cost more to KILL AND MAIM our Brothers than it does to have real training and safety to protect them, SAD BUT TRUE!

I too want not only justice for those left behind, but also the information to keep it from happening again! But many times due to the ability of these companies to protect themselves from liability, THE TRUTH IS BURIED WITH THE BROTHER!

My idea of a perfect world, would be when there is one of these tragedies the Brother and or his loved ones are treated as fairly and with as much appreciation as the CEO of the company! In an industry where it is a KNOWN fact sooner or later one of these tragedies will happen, there is no plan in place to care for the Brother or his loved ones. Yet the CEO of these utilities plan for their 100+ "" MILLION "" dollar "" YEARLY "" bonuses??? Then we have a Brother who may work for years, get maimed or killed and he or his loved ones have to fight FOR SCRAPS TO SURVIVE??? In a perfect world, 10 % of the bonuses made in this industry would go in to a fund, and "" REGARDLESS NOR ADMISSION OF GUILT ON ANYBODIES PART "" the Brother and wives and babies would be taken care of IMMEDIATLEY NO QUESTIONS NEEDED NOR ASKED!!!
Now there is a pipe dream!!!!

mscheuerer
11-20-2006, 02:36 PM
Rusty,

Good Call. I've been following this quite a bit on here. How much success have you had along with S.A.C. going up against these companies (i.e. insurance/utility etc...) and lobbying for all of this change and information? Also, has there been a change in the companies you're talking about? I know here in the north east theres not a lot of problematic issues pertaining to what you're talking about so I am assuming you're talking about the midwestern states?. If there were problems like that here I'm confident there would be a multitde of agency's involved right away. Good luck and keep plugging on your idea of the "perfect world"; The last time I tried to have an argument with the boss he told me (while walking out of his office) point blank that I could have become anything in the world. I chose to be a linehand. He chose to be a boss and then said he could be president if he wanted to.

rusty
11-22-2006, 10:14 AM
mscheuerer ,

Brother no truer words said, yes many have chosen this trade AND DAM* PROUD OF IT! That is why I am so focused on making those accountable stand up! Sorry to say most of what I have gotten from those agencies charged and responsible for protecting those in our industry, IS BS! In their defense most are under funded, under manned and don't have the skill level in our trade to do the job! Then you throw in some bureaucracy and personal egos and we have NO ACCOUNTABILITY! This doesn't even count the political power these large companies and utilities HAVE BOUGHT! You are correct it is in the South and Midwest. But at times it happens ANYWHERE! But both Coasts seem to have better conditions than others.

But after 4 years S.A.C. is starting to make a difference, and only because of those out in the field helping. I had a wife call me and let me know she had lost her life partner, and while talking with the company they were playing hard ball. She made the statement that maybe should call S.A.C. for assistance and threw down my business card. She said they turned 180 degrees around and started doing the right thing!!! Sorry to say that is not the norm, most these big players have little fear of ANYONE INCLUDING THE GOVERNMENT, FACT! But at least now they know they have to be looking over their shoulder!!!

That is why it is so important that our Brothers and their families get the right kind of help! I can't tell you how many stories I have of those who got their family lawyer, and due to lack of expert ices and funds didn't receive the justice they deserved. This is not by accident! Those accountable plan on dragging these cases out AS LONG AS THEY CAN! Hoping to use their endless funds to bankrupt those seeking justice, AND MANY TIMES IT WORKS!!! They will drag it out up to the point of the day or hour your walking in to the court room. This can take YEARS and untold amounts of money to get to this point! Many companies try and do the right thing, OR SO SOME SAY and do UNTIL THE INSURANCE COMPANY LAWYERS TAKE IT OVER! Then the good company says , " we don't like the way it is going, BUT IT IS BEYOND OUR CONTROL! The sad things is, either way by design or not the much needed evidence and immediate documentation and follow up has been LOST OR COVERED UP! Each hour and day lost plays in their favor, FACT!

At the very least I URGE ANYBODY that suffers this tragedy TO DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, the photos from the hospital and treatment after ARE IRREPLACABLE!!!! If later they are treated right, no harm done! If the company is above board AND YOU CAN BET THEY ARE PROTECTING THEMSELVES, WE HAVE THE SAME RIGHT!!!!

But the most important thing we need is for EVERY BROTHER in this industry to set down with their loved ones and let them know what needs to happen!!! This will help preserve the evidence and lost time! Due to the pain, shock and misery and failure to act quickly, the odds of receiving justice grow smaller with every passing day!

My " DREAM " may one day be a reality! And I don't carry if the big players figure out it would be cheaper and make them out to be heroes, or if it happens out of true compassion!!! I would still be the happiest man on earth "" TO NO LONGER BE NEEDED ""!!! AS IT SHOULD BE!!!

Brother I don't know if you have read this article, but I believe it is a "" MUST READ " for every Brother and his love ones in this trade! here is the link for it.
http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=3528

Bull Dog
11-22-2006, 05:51 PM
Thanks Rusty could you pls post the whole preamble. Most of us have never read it. Your right keep up the good work. I think those that don't understand will eventually it takes time for some. Like line work it takes time to get it. Your right there is a difference depending were in the us you get your training. That is something that should end too. It shouldn't matter were your at it all should be the best it can be. Keep up the good work! I'm shu're you have wanted to pack it in at times but the cause is just. I have seen some real nasty accidents and co settle for a pittance. We need someone with your legal so the widows don't get snowed. They want to throw a few thousand at them and walk away. Sadly Ive seen it work. I'm so glad there is someone they can go to that really wants to help. Keep up the good work. I just wondered if you have someone that could take over if the needed. Might be hard to find someone with the same passion for the family's. Good luck.

smccoy
11-22-2006, 09:11 PM
I just want to take the time to Thank each one of the Lineman and there familys who have read this thread and who have taken the time to write there thought and feeling here. The first day that I wrote on here about Jim's death I never thought all of this would be here just a few weeks later. Even though we do not see eye to eye on the way that have been discussed here, I am thankfull for each work that has been written and read. With knowagle comes power. If thing are going to change it will have to come from the Brotherhood. In the years to come I pray that Jim's death will some how save the life of another Lineman. Keep talking about the danger of this job and how to change it and then do something about it! Please!!! With Thanksgiving just hours away, I find it hard to be thankfull. Jim always called Thanksgiving, National Over Eaters day and boy could he put away some food, purple peas and corn bread, jam cake, date bread, dressing, apple pie, and that was for lunch. I do have the many years we had together to be thankfull for.
Remember Jim and be safe.
Sherri McCoy

mscheuerer
11-23-2006, 10:22 AM
Sherri, not knowing you or your husband doesn't make a difference; A brotherhood is a brotherhood. You'd be suprised (and proud) to find out where some printouts of this thread have ended up being posted for linehands to read while coming and going. Information is everything and when that information concerns us as a whole we tend to pay some close attention. It's kinda like having that little voice in the back of your head while your working and thinking.

None the less I want to say Happy Turkey Day to all. Sherri; Jim had to be right about "Over Eaters Day"; Especially with some of those foods you have mentioned, Purple Peas; Jam Cake; Date Bread. You know being from the north east (A Yank?) I haven't heard of those before (Go ahead laugh!) but now I have something to talk about.... Sounds Delicious!


(Are they really purple???)

rusty
11-24-2006, 06:23 AM
Bull Dog,

Hope these help. We are all Brothers and Sisters, PERIOD!

CONSTITUTION OF NATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF
ELECTRICAL WORKERS
Preamble 1891
In this great age of inventions men are so apt to be dazed by the material splendor, which surrounds them that they forget the wageworker, whose labor has produced it, and as a consequence the men who have placed our country foremost in material and intellectual progress are today poorer than ever before. And in this respect none have suffered more than the Electrical Workers. The men who carried the telegraph lines from ocean to ocean, who wove the web of telephone wires in every city and town, who erected the lights that transformed night into day, who constructed the machines and instruments by which this has been accomplished, who risk their lives daily that the community may have light, news, easy communication and protection, have been reduced year by year from their rightful position among mechanics, both in wages and social standing, they are lower than want of a strict apprentice system the trade literally swarms with unskilled men. While everywhere in the blind senseless competition for work, cheapness has almost become the prevalent rule, to the detriment alike of employers and journeymen, to the injury and danger of the public, and to the ruin and degradation of our trade.
Therefore, we, the Electrical Workers of America, in convention assembled, having seen the necessity of a thorough organization of our trade, and believing that a common cause and universal sympathy should exist among all Electrical Workers, have formed this National Brotherhood, having for its object the elevation of our social and moral standing, not only among other branches of industry, but in the community at large, and the advancement of material interests of our craft, believing as we do, that it will serve our employers, while it also elevates our condition.
We earnestly invite all men belonging to our trade to come forward, join our ranks and help increase our number, until such time there shall be no man working at our trade outside our Brotherhood, and as eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, so is a close attention to the duties of our Brotherhood the protection of our natural interests, a duty all the more compulsory on us, as our standing among our fellow mechanics demands that we shall not be backward in bringing our trade to an equal standing with any other in the land. And we know of no means to accomplish this than by organization. Therefore it is the imperative duty of every Electrical Worker to do all in his power to organize the men of his craft, and thus place ourselves in the material, social and moral position the dignity of our trade entitles us to.


Preamble to the Constitution of the IBEW

The Objects of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers are: To organize all workers in the entire electrical industry in the United States and Canada, including all those in public utilities and electrical manufacturing, into local unions; To promote reasonable methods of work; To cultivate feelings of friendship among those of our industry; To settle all disputes between employers and employ*ees by arbitration (if possible); To assist each other in sickness or distress; To secure employment; To reduce the hours of daily labor; To secure adequate pay for our work; To seek a higher and higher standard of living; To seek security for the individual, and by legal and proper means to elevate the moral, intellectual and social conditions of our members, their families and dependents, in the interest of a high*er standard of citizenship.

smccoy
11-24-2006, 06:56 AM
Sherri, not knowing you or your husband doesn't make a difference; A brotherhood is a brotherhood. You'd be suprised (and proud) to find out where some printouts of this thread have ended up being posted for linehands to read while coming and going. Information is everything and when that information concerns us as a whole we tend to pay some close attention. It's kinda like having that little voice in the back of your head while your working and thinking.

None the less I want to say Happy Turkey Day to all. Sherri; Jim had to be right about "Over Eaters Day"; Especially with some of those foods you have mentioned, Purple Peas; Jam Cake; Date Bread. You know being from the north east (A Yank?) I haven't heard of those before (Go ahead laugh!) but now I have something to talk about.... Sounds Delicious!


(Are they really purple???)


Mike, It was hard for me to understand at first about "The Brotherhood" of the IBEW. But I was alway glad that Jim had it to turn to. Over the years we had visited with many familys that had lost there loved one on the job and in other ways, when we Jim worked at FPL, one of his past coworkers at MoPub was killed on the job, Jim was on the first flight back to Kansas City to be with his "Brothers". So I do understand about the bond of "The Brotherhood".

Rusty said it so much better than I can so ............
"................ it is the imperative duty of every Electrical Worker to do all in his power to organize the men of his craft, and thus place ourselves in the material, social and moral position the dignity of our trade entitles us to."

Mike I'm from the Mid-West, a city girl, so when I meet Jim, a true country boy from AK, oh boy, I sure got an education about the south or at least southern AR., purple peas are not peas like sweet peas they are a bean like black eye peas but the center is kinda purple and the outside the hull is purple they are cooked like beans with ham or bacon. Polk salad was another one, it's not a salad at all it's a weed that is cooked and looks like green, never tryed it. I could go on but this is not the place or time. But thanks for asking.

Be safe! Sherri McCoy

sherrisbirds
01-19-2009, 01:13 PM
I know there are many Lineman who worked with Jim McCoy over the years. Jan 16 would have been his 49th birthday. As his family and friends lifes have had to go with out him, we miss him each and every day. Please don't forget Jim and how much he enjoyed being a lineman and how funny and what a pain in the ass he was at times. Jimmy Johnson, the fake snakes in your truck, Charlie the dead animals in your locker, Julie, when he glued your stuff to your desk. In return tieing his boot laces together while he was sleeping at his desk, which ended up with a broken bone. You never know what would be next. It was like that living with him each day also!
Jim was killed on the job 2 year and 4 months ago, please don't forget him!
Sherri McCoy

Please be careful and let your loved ones know what they mean to you, life is short and you never know what will happen next.