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YooperTurnedFloridian
03-21-2008, 03:58 PM
Hello all, quick question.... I am pretty sure I know the answer but please let me know... When working on Distribution when do you put up grounds? I have been an apprentice for a while now and worked on transmission prior and we grounded everything, My GF says we don't need to ground it since we opened the jacks and no one else is working on the line but us. Please let me know........ Thanks, Chris

lewy
03-21-2008, 04:51 PM
Hello all, quick question.... I am pretty sure I know the answer but please let me know... When working on Distribution when do you put up grounds? I have been an apprentice for a while now and worked on transmission prior and we grounded everything, My GF says we don't need to ground it since we opened the jacks and no one else is working on the line but us. Please let me know........ Thanks, ChrisAnytime you are going to be hands on you should ground the line, it does not matter that you are the only 1 working on the line
Does your GF let you work on isolated lines with your leathers or rubbers, not that it really matters?
You should not be working on isolated lines even with rubber gloves, it should be grounded.

LeadHead
03-21-2008, 07:04 PM
You ground everytime your not using your gloves, and sleeves ,or gloves only depends on your rules.The grounds not only protect you from some one in your own company closing something in on you. They are also to prevent a customer from back feeding into you if their stuff isnt isolated correctly.

Special ED
03-22-2008, 02:48 AM
I would insist on grounding at the open and hanging a flag with your hold cards to increase the visibility of the grounds. That would keep you from having something closed in on you.

Also I always work between my grounds and within sight of them. So say you got a tap 10 miles long and the work is about 4 miles from the open point. Ground at the open and flag and card the open. Then hang a set on each end of your work area.

Yeah your working on an open isolated line and your the only crew on it. But what if you get some jackass with a bright idea and a deep freezer full of food going bad so he hooks up a generator to his house and it backfeeds through a transformer and comes out at primary voltage? If your not using rubber gloves and sleeves or your not grounded your in big trouble.. Some companies require gloves and sleeves even with grounds.

Always hang your own grounds also with your hold cards in them. That way only you are allowed to remove them. Its not uncommon on big storms to see branch lines with 5 or more sets of grounds from diffrent crews or compaines at the switches.

entlineman
03-22-2008, 07:32 AM
Where I work, we ground, flag, and install a hold card at the source after we test in line. No matter how many sources we do the same at all of them unless we can open some switches before we get there. But we still have to GFHT at the switches. We then install our working grounds on both sides of our break or whatever. Then can we work on it with leather gloves. If we don't ground it then we can work it as "hot" (rubber gloves, guts, blankets, etc.) but only if the wire is off the ground and not broke.

YooperTurnedFloridian
03-22-2008, 10:08 AM
Thanks, that is what I was thinking. We don't hang any flags, grounds or anything else just open the jacks. Once the doors on the cutouts are open then it is worked with leather gloves or no gloves at all. I am with a Union contractor and am a 3rd step apprentice and am not sure how to go about this, I have asked and said that I thought we should always ground but like I said we have NEVER hung grounds.... I am a little low on the pole to be making waves, but do not want anyone getting killed either. Any advice would be great.........Thanks, Chris

rcdallas
03-22-2008, 10:46 AM
One of the things that bother me is the potential for back feed from a generator on the line....

I heard a story from my lineman the other day where a couple of guys at our coop went back to the sub opened and tagged the breaker, put the grounds up and as they were working another guy from the transmission provider goes into the sub ignores the lockout tag and closes the breaker in. The grounds saved them.

Many potentials out there for a whole bunch of anything.

lewy
03-22-2008, 11:12 AM
Thanks, that is what I was thinking. We don't hang any flags, grounds or anything else just open the jacks. Once the doors on the cutouts are open then it is worked with leather gloves or no gloves at all. I am with a Union contractor and am a 3rd step apprentice and am not sure how to go about this, I have asked and said that I thought we should always ground but like I said we have NEVER hung grounds.... I am a little low on the pole to be making waves, but do not want anyone getting killed either. Any advice would be great.........Thanks, Chris

So you have no work protection code that tells someone who mite come along not to close the switch?
Do you at least test the line, we heard of an incident a few years back when a switch was opened & the line was grounded without testing & the switch was leaking & when the ground was installed there was as you can imagine a large flash, imagine if they had just started working.
As far as getting changes made start out easy ,but bottom line it could be you or your co workers life.

wtdoor67
03-22-2008, 04:01 PM
Very dangerous practice. Contact your shop stewart. Also find out who your co. safety man is and contact him.

THE KID
03-22-2008, 11:02 PM
You need to always test and ground. In our system we have coops. hit our transmission poles with 161Kv lines and they have induced voltage on them. We were reconductoring a new line under a 69Kv line about 1/2 mile long. when we came back the next day we noticed we had a arm that was burnt up. We check voltage on the new line that had never been energized and had 2000 volts on the line from induced voltage. Always test before you ground.

PA BEN
03-23-2008, 03:22 PM
Your GF is going to get someone killed. It's not dead unless it's grounded. A car pole down the road could bounce a hot line into your's, back feed. Not to ground is a bad work practice.:mad:

old lineman
03-23-2008, 09:27 PM
Anytime you are going to be hands on you should ground the line, it does not matter that you are the only 1 working on the line
Does your GF let you work on isolated lines with your leathers or rubbers, not that it really matters?
You should not be working on isolated lines, but treating it as alive

Lewy, I am disappointed with your last sentence.
You left me with the impression on an earlier post that you should not be working on isolated conductors and that's correct. If it's isolated then follow through and de-energize it. Test and apply grounds.
You seem to leave me with the impression this time that you can work isolated conductors so long as they are treated as alive.
You know we made that important change to eliminate this suicidal approach at least 5 years ago.
I think you just slipped up but it shouldn't be left that way on this site as I believe this is a very educational tool for many.
Don't you agree?
The Old Lineman

lewy
03-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Lewy, I am disappointed with your last sentence.
You left me with the impression on an earlier post that you should not be working on isolated conductors and that's correct. If it's isolated then follow through and de-energize it. Test and apply grounds.
You seem to leave me with the impression this time that you can work isolated conductors so long as they are treated as alive.
You know we made that important change to eliminate this suicidal approach at least 5 years ago.
I think you just slipped up but it shouldn't be left that way on this site as I believe this is a very educational tool for many.
Don't you agree?
The Old LinemanSorry if that last line was not clear What I meant is you should not be working on isolated line period. some people instead of grounding the line will just treat it as alive I know there was a time when we would do that, but you never do treat it the same as a truly hot line.
I hope this clears up what I was trying to say

mainline
03-24-2008, 06:22 PM
I know that the safest way to work a de-energized line is test tag and ground. That being said sometimes I have been forced into working a line as if it were hot. Here is why. For a number of years my utility had a love affair with flat lay tree wire. On three phase depending on the line you could have long distances between three bare spots on the conductor at which to ground. You either have to go up apply coverup then skin it to ground it, or treat it as hot. Rubber up like you would normally would and wear your gloves. This is only relevant for unbroken conductor, but to say that in all situations you must ground on both sides of your work area in order to safely work is a simplification. That ebing said if you can ground do ground because it is safer.

Special ED
03-24-2008, 06:59 PM
This is only relevant for unbroken conductor, but to say that in all situations you must ground on both sides of your work area in order to safely work is a simplification. That ebing said if you can ground do ground because it is safer.


What do you mean by its a simplification? You should ground on both sides of your work. If you want to work it dead no matter if the conductor is up in the air or on the ground.

Im sorry Im just a little confused about your comment.

puc
03-25-2008, 10:54 AM
thats a bad work practice working on lines that are off and treading it hot is wrong it takes a couple of seconds to test and apply ground i hope you are wearing your rubbers when he tells you to do this just remember ITS NOT DEAD UNTILL ITS GROUNDED

mainline
03-26-2008, 09:11 PM
If you read the whole post I explained it. How do you skin tree wire to apply grounds without treating it as hot? You can't ground through 15kv insulation so you must treat as hot. Rubber it up, cover the arm, the pins slide on some hose and work it as if it were hot. I didn't say go up in gloves and just thrash around. I understand that it is safer to ground it, I do ground it in all situations other than the one I described. In that situation I do truly treat it as hot, not just half ass it and call it working it hot. If you can figure out a better way to work on tree wire please explain it to me. I wasn't looking to start a pissing contest, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Special ED
03-27-2008, 12:11 AM
Thanks for making that clear.. I wasnt tryin to piss ya off I guess I just read it wrong..

I do tree wire and hendrix cables the same way. Gloves and sleeves cover everything up and treat it hot till I have it skinned and grounded.

Bull_grunt
03-30-2008, 10:24 PM
Thanks, that is what I was thinking. We don't hang any flags, grounds or anything else just open the jacks. Once the doors on the cutouts are open then it is worked with leather gloves or no gloves at all. I am with a Union contractor and am a 3rd step apprentice and am not sure how to go about this, I have asked and said that I thought we should always ground but like I said we have NEVER hung grounds.... I am a little low on the pole to be making waves, but do not want anyone getting killed either. Any advice would be great.........Thanks, Chris

:mad: Rank makes no difference when it comes to safety. If the higher ups in your company wont do anything about it call osha they'll see it your way. Bottom line; I would lose my job before giving up a life for it, there's other jobs and its not hard to get one as an apprentice.;)