I want your input!!!!!

[snoman]

We have language in our contract that provides for storm and emergency coverage. The company utilizes a callout procedure when necessary to call in a crew or crews for overtime coverage. Due to downsizing and failure to hire and/or fill vacant positions in the line dept. there is a shortage of man power in all locations of this company. The longer than normal restoration times and unreasonable response times has triggered a inquiry by the PSC. The PSC has established a time line this company must follow or they will be fined. The bottom line is, there are not enough line personnel to cover they vast territories and that equates to most populated first-least populated last!

My question is: in your opinion, can a company mandate a day worker (M-F, 07:00-15:30) to report to work on a Holiday. This work is for stand-by, anticipating trouble during a holiday. We say use their call out list, which they have contractually. What do you say???


“some can, some try and others never will”

[Patriot]

I think they can mandate you report for work, but they have to pay holiday pay, or holiday standby pay. Depends on your contract. We have standby pay for holidays, and then there is one person or a crew on call and designated to respond.

Bottim line, they can about do what ever they want. And then you have individuals that like to work around the contract for thier own benefit. And as we get older, and hands get harder to find, coverege is going to get worse. Then throw on less and less maintenance, in the name of the almighty dollar, and the day is rapidly approaching for a disaster.

[CPOPE]

Fact is there is a shortage of lineworkers in the industry.

If you want to keep your job you will have to report when forced.

THey will make you carry a pager and force response. Like a firefighter I'd like to work 4-10's in a small linebarn 4 day's on 3 days off. Hell I'll pull a continous 50-10's and answer the phone every time they call.

Thank god the driver rules time limits do not apply. We used to maintain a CDL drivers log which limmited your OT.

Read on most all know there is a shortage of line mechanics. If a large utility runs out of bodies they go to contractors. Compinies I work 4 use management to do the work when crews do not respond. I myself preferr to pay rat contractors double time over my own crews time and 1/2.

If you don;t want to respond I'll pay top doller to whoever is qualified and will fill ur shooze

High-powered jobs abound for linemen

Heat waves, snowstorms, torrential downpours - employees of Atlantic City Electric's power line crew are used to working under harsh conditions. That's because when the lights go out, customers want their electricity on, and they want it on now.
For those men - and one woman - who make up the company's 200-member line crew, preparation and training is essential. So where do they go to earn their stripes?

Boot camp, of course.

Tucked behind Atlantic City Electric's headquarters off Harding Highway are a cluster of 45-foot-high utility poles and a separate row of poles adorned with wires and transformers - the kind typically found along roadways. When the power's on here, 7,200 volts of electricity course through the overhead lines.

Atlantic City Electric allowed The Press on its training grounds last week to experience what line workers do and how they hone their craft. It's physical. It's mentally taxing. And it's no joke.

"A lot of the applicants that come in ... don't make it," Rick Gorbig, supervisor of utility operations training, said as he discussed the process of bringing in apprentices and new hires.
Before anyone is trained, they must pass a Construction and Skills Trade aptitude test.

The training itself develops over time, with programs lasting 2 to 4 years before complete certification can be attained. Instead of mastering how overhead power lines function, some apprentices and new hires might concentrate on other areas, such as working with underground wires or substations.

Line workers are desperately needed in this industry, as many of them are older and face retirement, Gorbig said.

About 60 percent of utility workers nationwide could retire in the next couple of years, according to the International Association of Electrical Workers.

"We're trying to fill their spots," said Gorbig, a 25-year Atlantic City Electric employee.

He added that the company expects to have about 40 people in its training program in the next month. The job typically pays about $32,000 for a starting apprentice and goes up to about $72,000, depending on experience. Workers are unionized.

On a day last week when temperatures hit close to 90 degrees, training instructors demonstrated how to place a 5-foot-long rubber tube onto a power line and how to climb a utility pole.

The job is dangerous, and if safety precautions aren't taken, even the most basic mistake like failing to notice a rip in a rubber glove can lead to electrocution when a live wire is touched.

Instructor Eric Bennett, sweating under layers of protective gear, used a bucket truck to ascend more than 40 feet in the air. He gripped a rubber tube that was spliced down the middle and slipped it onto a power line temporarily turned off. The tubing, also called an eel, is a barrier that protects workers who might brush up against live wires.

Common rookie mistakes might be to drop the eel or get too close to the live wire - an arm's length away will do just fine, Bennett said.

Later, instructor Bob Clark helped Atlantic City Electric spokeswoman Sandra May slip on a harness and strap hooks under her shoes to climb one of the wooden utility poles. It was her first time.

To scale the pole, May dug the hooks into the wood, one foot at a time, and pulled herself up with a strap stretching around the log. She climbed a few feet and then descended.

"I think I'd rather stick with my media job," she said.

Being a line worker, while not for everybody, can be a source of pride for those who do it.

Bennett, who previously worked as a lineman in Philadelphia, recalled times when the power went out in the city's rowhouse neighborhoods on scorching summer days. His arrival would cause residents to wait and watch, he said, as he worked to restore their electricity. It was in those instances when Bennett had his admirers.

"People cheered," he said.

[LINEHAND]

I myself preferr to pay rat contractors double time over my own crews time and 1/2.



Could that be because your a GIANT PIECE OF ****?????

[Stick-it]

I guess a piece of **** likes to make sure everyone knows it reeks.

[wtdoor67]

I don't know if it's at all innovative or if everyone else does it but Pub. Serv. Co. of Ok. (a chicken co.) used to beef up their line crews by bringing in people from the hall and letting them work on the co. crews and pay them their construction scale. They were commonly referred to as "dock hands", or rent a lineman.

They always seemed to have a few at times and of course they just worked on the crews under all the rules of the Co. If they were living in a nearby area they got about as much OT as anybody. This might have been one of those side bar agreements, I don't know. Never did ask the BA or anyone about the particulars of it. Mostly appealed to older hands who liked to be home ever night.

[Orgnizdlbr]

We have language in our contract that provides for storm and emergency coverage. The company utilizes a callout procedure when necessary to call in a crew or crews for overtime coverage. Due to downsizing and failure to hire and/or fill vacant positions in the line dept. there is a shortage of man power in all locations of this company. The longer than normal restoration times and unreasonable response times has triggered a inquiry by the PSC. The PSC has established a time line this company must follow or they will be fined. The bottom line is, there are not enough line personnel to cover they vast territories and that equates to most populated first-least populated last!

My question is: in your opinion, can a company mandate a day worker (M-F, 07:00-15:30) to report to work on a Holiday. This work is for stand-by, anticipating trouble during a holiday. We say use their call out list, which they have contractually. What do you say???


“some can, some try and others never will”

It all depends on the specific language of your CBA. Unless Iread it word for word, I am not able to answer your question.

I have some questions of my own. How are emergencies on Holidays addressed? Do you have stand bye crews on holidays? Have you ever been forced to work a holiday before, or when they wanted coverage, did they utilize the callout list?

[Orgnizdlbr]

Fact is there is a shortage of lineworkers in the industry.

If you want to keep your job you will have to report when forced.

THey will make you carry a pager and force response. Like a firefighter I'd like to work 4-10's in a small linebarn 4 day's on 3 days off. Hell I'll pull a continous 50-10's and answer the phone every time they call.

Thank god the driver rules time limits do not apply. We used to maintain a CDL drivers log which limmited your OT.

Read on most all know there is a shortage of line mechanics. If a large utility runs out of bodies they go to contractors. Compinies I work 4 use management to do the work when crews do not respond. I myself preferr to pay rat contractors double time over my own crews time and 1/2.

If you don;t want to respond I'll pay top doller to whoever is qualified and will fill ur shooze




Mr. Cpope, it's obvious from your eloquent post that you are of an intellect which is above the rest of us who pale in your wisdom and experience. Please inform us, if you will, from where did you gleen such knowledge and communication skills? What property is so lucky to have you as an employee, if a contractor, who is the lucky contractor to score such a prize as you? Ive only been in the trade a few years......how long have you graced the ranks of the electric power industry? And, if you will, I recognize your ego and stature, but again, if you will, bend over grab your ears, pull as hard as you can, so as to insure that you pull your inflated head out of your fat ass....

[billg]

[Thank god the driver rules time limits do not apply. We used to maintain a CDL drivers log which limmited your OT]

CPOPE,
Where did you hear that CDL driver time limits rules do not apply to us? I was at a company safety training presentation a few months back (put on by retired state troopers from the DOT truck squad) and was informed that we are exempt only in a declared state of emergency, and we better have a copy of a signed declaration with us. The exemption is usually limited, and very specific. Were they full of sh!t, or what?

[CHICAGO HAND.]

In Illinois utility workers are also exempt thanks to the corporate Nazi's and the backing of the IBEW.And it does not have to be storm related or emergency. I have a problem with the folks at the IBEW supporting a law that lets me drive a truck with no sleep and a ton of work. I mean why would someone think that is safe. I understand people without power but how about pressuring the corporate nazi's to hire more people rather than support no rest periods for us. This issue is one I cant stand behind the IBEW on. Itold one of the bosses last year after being up for thirty hours and them dragging there feet on getting the next shift on sight to take over "I hope your wife and kids aint on the road as I drove off ".

[CPOPE]

CPOPE,
Where did you hear that CDL driver time limits rules do not apply to us? I was at a company safety training presentation a few months back (put on by retired state troopers from the DOT truck squad) and was informed that we are exempt only in a declared state of emergency, and we better have a copy of a signed declaration with us. The exemption is usually limited, and very specific. Were they full of sh!t, or what?[/QUOTE]

Not sure, Personally I do think drive time should be limitted but the edison electric institute and others fought for and obtained an exemption for utility workers. Read on and follow the link.

In 2003, the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) issued a Final Rule to promote highway safety by limiting the number of hours truck drivers can work. This rule inappropriately classified drivers of utility service vehicles in the same category as delivery truck drivers. EEI and its members successfully campaigned to make utility service vehicle drivers exempted from DOT's HOS regulations.

http://www.eei.org/industry_issues/reliability/hours_of_service/index.htm

[CPOPE]

Mr. Cpope, it's obvious from your eloquent post that you are of an intellect which is above the rest of us who pale in your wisdom and experience. Please inform us, if you will, from where did you gleen such knowledge and communication skills? What property is so lucky to have you as an employee, if a contractor, who is the lucky contractor to score such a prize as you? Ive only been in the trade a few years......how long have you graced the ranks of the electric power industry? And, if you will, I recognize your ego and stature, but again, if you will, bend over grab your ears, pull as hard as you can, so as to insure that you pull your inflated head out of your fat ass....

Funny I was answering the question about being forced to respond to a call in. nothing about my ego. The industry does have a shortage of craft workers. I've been with a number of utilities in the Northeast started as an apprentice in 79 narrowback and moved on to electric utilities after obtaining my undergraduate. Sorry you think my head is up my ass. the origional thread asked for input and I gave him what he asked for

[CPOPE]

Could that be because your a GIANT PIECE OF ****?????

Sorry you feel the way you do about me.
The point is I'd rather pay my own crews to respond If internal crews do not respond to contractors utilities turn to contractors. Point is there is a shortage of qulafied lineworkers. Point is utilities are forcing OT and and on-call response

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2007-05-16-power-shortage-cover_N.htm

[LINEHAND]

Sorry you feel the way you do about me.
The point is I'd rather pay my own crews to respond If internal crews do not respond to contractors utilities turn to contractors. Point is there is a shortage of qulafied lineworkers. Point is utilities are forcing OT and and on-call response

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2007-05-16-power-shortage-cover_N.htm

If you would rather pay rat contractors DT instead of the men you work with day in day out time and a half then that is pretty ****y!

[Stick-it]

CPOPE - You ARE a giant, selfish piece of ****. You have exposed yourself. You may call yourself a lineman but you are not. Keep maintainin' those qualifications, you self centered company PUKE. Thank God they did away with CDL rules for utility workers? (only a company man would say that.) You say you'd rather pay a rat contractor DT over your own crews time and a half? You said you have crossed lines in the past, and you'd do it again. Not proud?? FU@K YOU!!

At the end of the day you know you would sell out any hard working lineman for your own self gain. You know you would whistle bite anyone just to save the rich owner of your company a dollar. You selfish FU@K. The reason we need a union is to fight pricks like you.

If you do have a union ticket please turn it in. You most certainly are not worthy of carrying one. If you don't have one.... well, why am i not surprised?

[CPOPE]

CPOPE -Thank God they did away with CDL rules for utility workers? (only a company man would say that.)
Thanks be to god because the cdl rules were limmiting the ammount of overtime

You say you'd rather pay a rat contractor DT over your own crews time and a half? You said you have crossed lines in the past, and you'd do it again.
I din't say I rather pay the contractor I would rather have enough crews of my own to respond to outage. It sucks when you spin the list multiple times and internal crews do not respond.

At the end of the day you know you would sell out any hard working lineman for your own self gain. You know you would whistle bite anyone just to save the rich owner of your company a dollar.glad you think you know me but your wrong

The reason we need a union is to fight pricks like you. believe it or not you need people like me on the other side of the fence


Look back at the start of the thread. Snoman wanted input I didn't say I agree with the feedback I gave him. Don't take it personally.

[CPOPE]

If you would rather pay rat contractors DT instead of the men you work with day in day out time and a half then that is pretty ****y!

look back at the start of the post by snoman. When internal crews do not respond compinies are forced to use management to do the work or turn to contractors. Again the root cause of the problem is the shortage of lineworkes and an aging workforce working too much OT.

here is the senario:
a massive power outage has isolated tens of thousands of residents. The local utilities, short-staffed, put out an urgent call for manpower to neighboring electric companies. But nobody comes. The lights stay out. There’s no one left to spare.
This disaster scenario is not as unlikely as it sounds. Years of relentless cost cutting by the utility industry have wiped out worker training programs and gutted the ranks of experienced linemen. Since deregulation came to the electric industry more than 10 years ago, utilities have reduced their line staff by 25 or 30 percent. Today, the average lineman is 48 and overworked thanks to the widespread practice of forced overtime.

The good news is anecdotal evidence suggests that the industry is aware of the problem. The bad news is not much is being done to address it.

"Everything is keyed on dollars and cents profit," said IBEW Utility Director Jim Hunter. "Storm outages are longer, and utilities are asking for more and more help from other utilities. The problem is that other companies are in the same boat. And they are still not hiring."

Thanks to bare-bones management under deregulation, worker training programs are all but relics from the past, victims of a highly competitive deregulated environment. The aging work force is dominated by baby boomers nearing retirement. Industry observers are predicting a slow-motion catastrophe over the low number of linemen qualified to shepherd the nation’s power grid into the future.

"We have this impending demographic crisis on our hands here," said Madison, Wisconsin, Local 2304 Business Manager Dave Poklinkoski. "At the same time, the utility industry has not come to grips with the need to hire and train that gap. But some utility companies are increasingly recognizing the problem."

http://www.ibew.org/articles/05journal/0504/p12_shortage.htm

[wtdoor67]

These issues remind me of a precedent I read of once in the back of a trade magazine.

I remember it was in Missouri and was an REC Coop. A lineman had worked extended hours and went to sleep driving home and wrecked and killed himself. His wife sued the COOP and was awarded a multi-million dollar settlement.

Of course I expect the Co. probably appealed etc. and the award was knocked down to a few dollars. That's what usually happens in such cases.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Funny I was answering the question about being forced to respond to a call in. nothing about my ego. The industry does have a shortage of craft workers. I've been with a number of utilities in the Northeast started as an apprentice in 79 narrowback and moved on to electric utilities after obtaining my undergraduate. Sorry you think my head is up my ass. the origional thread asked for input and I gave him what he asked for

Really......there was a hell of alot of condesention in your answer then.....and judging by the other responses to your post, I wasnt the only one who thought your head was up your ass.

[snoman]

It all depends on the specific language of your CBA. Unless Iread it word for word, I am not able to answer your question.

I have some questions of my own. How are emergencies on Holidays addressed? Do you have stand bye crews on holidays? Have you ever been forced to work a holiday before, or when they wanted coverage, did they utilize the callout list?

we have a call out procedure with a rotating list. due to down sizing and lack of qualified line people our company has been fined by the PSC for untimely response, so when a Holiday or a important date occurs, the management decides at the 11 th. hour to have stand-by crews. They have a commitment from the union to provide coverage for "EMERGENCY" purposes but they fines from the PSC loom over their heads. We have not been "forced" as of this posting but the threat is always alluded to.

[deegan06]

snoman had a good quesion and concern, but CPOPE got off on a complete different little rampage of his own. What a peice of **** he is. You should probably take your f@CKED up ideas and comments and bid on a job as a manager. If you were a union hand at one time, I have never encountered a bigger piece of ****. If you are still part of the union maybe you should jump off a cliff. U are the only one who thought U were making a logical answer to the question that was aked. GO F your self

[madcowboy33]

I think he is management and claims he used to be a lineman, whatever he is still a ratty jackass f$ck.

[Trbl639]

We've been short handed since 95 when we had the last lay-off and the company let more contractors on the property..they got less contractors now and have rehired more lineman, but we are still short handed.......and at times manpower is scarce for restoration.....and it is getting worse, cause we are all sick and tired of working 24/7..............

some guys work OT only on their terms, and that hurts the rest of us!! been with this outfit 28 years, and Monday Labor Day holiday has been cancelled.........first time we've ever had a Holiday cancelled......days off/vacation have been, because of storms or crews being out of town helping other parts of our system or other companies on storm restoration...but never a Holiday!!!!!!! this time is because Hurricane Gustav is looking like it is going to hit our service area around New Orleans or between there and Houston.......but at least the first 8 hrs Monday will be double time and a half........so we'll make a little extra........

Our BA's have a meeting with the big dogs from IBEW next week about a grievence that's been filed, over the company Forcing guys to go out of town on storms, when they can't get eough volunteers........and gonna try to get us time and ahalf if we go out of our normal area to work a storm for all hours worked...and then dbl time if we go outta state in our system or to another utility.......I won't see that..at least here...been trying to get it for years to no avail...but I'm turning my papers in , in about a month!!!

[rowdy2133]

He said it himself, he started out as a narrowback, I wouldnt expect anything else, and explain all you want, you RAT *******, you said you would rather pay a contractor double time, than your own crews time and a half, there is no explanation good enough for such a Rat statement!!

[oldlineman55]

Work is a four letter word, but ****.
When I got married and got back from my Honeymoon I has exactly four dollars to my name. I took that four dollars and bought a sixpack of Ballintine beer and some corn chips. I put what was left of my savings in the gas tank of my Ford Maverick piece of **** car so I could make it to work on Monday.
I then proceeded to work every hour I could possibly work just so I could pay my bills. I painted houses on the side and replaced roofs and used a rubber for seven years cause I couldn't afford kids. Work all you can, take care of your old lady, save as much as you can, and retire at 55, and shut the hell up about how much money you are forced to make!

[graybeard]

Can't really tell ya much unless I saw your contract. So they can only go by whats in it, or whatever agreement they can work out with the BA. I know that our contract has two clausses that deal with ON CALL and STAND BY. Our shop has not had to use either provision yet(gas side but not elec). Our shop isn't working the OT some of the other ones are. The shop 25 miles away has been working 6,10s for acouple of years and we get called to go there 5 to 6 times a year over the same period because they couldn't get enough guys from that shop to make up a crew.
We also got to go through cut backs in 95 and have been left to work with smaller crew sizes since 95 but the customers base has contiued to increase. Can't say that I blame the guys for not always answering the phone at night or on the weekends. We only have acouple of guys with kids at home and I ADMIRE them for wanting to be involved in their kids lives.
I know if they want me to be in the shop and stand by you pay me what ever the OT rate is for the time I'm in there. If you want me to guarantee that if you call I'll come in then you gota pay me an hour or so for the weekdays and acouple hours each day of the weekend(at the approprate TO rate)
Hope that helps.