Does anyone understand why we are bonding guys even with glass rods?

[US & CA Tramp]

I agree with Rob and Lewy on the issues, and in some areas multiple ground rods are driven and connected together until the ohm reading is at the 25 or less. As far as working around it live, according what I have been taught and the regs, the neutral is another current carrying conductor, so if you are working hot you are suppose to treat it like any other energized conductor. We all know safety rules are broken every day, and I am just as guilty as the next guy, but we except the risks. As for why different utilities have different specs and why, it is called engineers, and when they design something they don't think about you or I, nor do they give a s__t about our safety, safety is our job.

[bobbo]

When I worked in the states we bonded down guys to the neutral, the thing I did not like was the fact that it introduced a ground potential into a work zone when working live primary. I do not accept a ground potential in my work zone when working live , its a deadly second point of contact. Depending on where we work , some utilities will use 1 glass rod in a primary down guy and some will use glass rods to get below the neutral. The concept of using the down guy to help lower the ohm reading of a ground is iffy. If that is a problem it would make more sense to either use larger down ground wire and multiple ground rods, or plates. Also we use a guy strain insulator installed 6 to 8 feet below the neutral , to protect the public. I was just thinking , by bonding the guy steel to the neutral and a down ground , then attaching it to the ground rod, wouldn't the possibility of a circulating current exist especially in higher voltage construction due to induction ? The same idea as a circulating current can exist with bracket grounding when there is another circuit inducing a charge on the grounded circuit.

D 20 years ago we used to glove 7200 12470 off the pole. We put up a heavy ground molding stick in case we gaffed the ground. I the same thought, why put a bond where you are working at? Then with that squeeze thing that is mandated you have rebelt three times to get over a piece of copper to the guys.

We went on storm to this property, they issued fish rods and Johnny balls. But when you went to fix anything all over their guying was bonded over. Jumper over Johnny balls then topside of the guy was bonded to the ground. So why did they issue all these Strain rods and Johnny balls when they bond it solid everywhere? Guying specs have no consistency any where. Protecting the public should be first concern, protecting the worker second concern ... But I don't understand the inconsistency?

[rob8210]

Bobbo and Tramp, I do not understand why its this way either, I just put it down to different engineers with different ideas. Of course a lot of the engineering today doesn't seem to have anything to do with common sense. An example , guying a pole with less than 45 degree angle in the line.

[lewy]

Bobbo and Tramp, I do not understand why its this way either, I just put it down to different engineers with different ideas. Of course a lot of the engineering today doesn't seem to have anything to do with common sense. An example , guying a pole with less than 45 degree angle in the line.

" An example , guying a pole with less than 45 degree angle in the line." ?

[thrasher]

I'm with you; if you are putting a in a guy insulator why would you bond to the guy ABOVE the insulator? The places I have been the bond is made to the guy below the insulator, which is supposed to be at or near to the level of the neutral. Therefore you don't carry ground above neutral unless you have crossarm mounted arrestors. Even then you run the ground on underside of arms and your routine blankets cover the arms while working in the area.

[SBatts]

I'm with you; if you are putting a in a guy insulator why would you bond to the guy ABOVE the insulator? The places I have been the bond is made to the guy below the insulator, which is supposed to be at or near to the level of the neutral. Therefore you don't carry ground above neutral unless you have crossarm mounted arrestors. Even then you run the ground on underside of arms and your routine blankets cover the arms while working in the area.

All Bonded hardware, including guy hardware above the insulated fiber strain, is mostly done to prevent hardware caused fires in high humid areas. I have grounded all hardware on some utilities property even 2400/4160. I have also worked property LADWP that doesn't case ground distribution transformers, and then covers up transformer hanger bolts with little fiber Strain. They also pay me journeyman lineman's pay to nail little yellow high voltage signs on crossarms.

Idiot Language Police blocked the word STRAIN

[rob8210]

My point, Lewy is you very rarely if ever see semi-strain guying anymore.

[bluepointpowerman]

Per the NESC anchor and span guys must be either insulated or grounded to protect persons on the ground should they become disconnected from their anchors and sag into an energized conductor or part. For years most electric utilities ground guys at the pole to satisfy this requirement. Over the years utilities started placing guy insulators (usually fiberglass rods at the tops of guys to provide greater BIL (Basic Impulse Level - bascially a indicator of dielectric strength) for protection against lighting. If insulators are used they must be positioned in the guy soo that if the guy slack down on an energized conductor or tap, the lowwer 8' of the guy must not become energized. Its complicated but sometimes this requires multiple insulators. To avoid this, some companies ground the guy below the guy insultor.

This is my second property where we bond the guys. With NG you bond in the air with a bond to first bare part below the rod. Which I don't understand especially with that gay squeeze. Then other properties you drive a rod in the vicinity near the anchor and tap to the bottom of the tail.

Now that guy is going to be ground potential with the anchor if it has good tension and use a preform instead of those automatic attachments. Is it for cathodic protection?- like bridges. Or are they using it as alternative path to ground for equipment, or another bond to make the neutral more ground potential?

Now the ***** clamps, or that neutral clamp thing instead of neutral glass for the neutral? The Canucks did that so when they grounded they would not have to put a pole band on. When they grounded, instead of neutral to pole band then to phases for equipotential. They would ground to the bolt sticking out if they used that clamp to the phases. But I don't believe the bolt is designed for current you would think?

Can you tell their motive for bonding guys and clamps instead of glass for neutrals?

And say you dead end one side with open wire, then dead end the other side with no glass, aren't you creating a hazard for the next man?

I know a lot of people die pulling guys in corridors. I hear stories once a year about one pulling a guy and getting from the guy tail through his body to the rod. But bonding the guy in the air would be your last step, because pulling the guy has to be done first before bonding.

As for public safety, if you bond the guy to ground then you would probably have to bond the rod also? But forget I suggest that then we would have more shot to do.

Someone enlighten me what is the reason?

[bobbo]

Per the NESC anchor and span guys must be either insulated or grounded to protect persons on the ground should they become disconnected from their anchors and sag into an energized conductor or part. For years most electric utilities ground guys at the pole to satisfy this requirement. Over the years utilities started placing guy insulators (usually fiberglass rods at the tops of guys to provide greater BIL (Basic Impulse Level - bascially a indicator of dielectric strength) for protection against lighting. If insulators are used they must be positioned in the guy soo that if the guy slack down on an energized conductor or tap, the lowwer 8' of the guy must not become energized. Its complicated but sometimes this requires multiple insulators. To avoid this, some companies ground the guy below the guy insultor.

So the glass rod at the top is not for the linemans protection but for to protect against lightning? Then below that should protect the public, either insulate it 8 to 10 feet from the rod or completely ground it? Per NESC. Where does the lineman fit in all this?

If I was just a guy that could write the NESC. For public protection, Johnny ball 10' from the rod. And for my or my brothers protection glass rod with 12 footers to clear the phases. And link more rods if you got transmission and a lot of under build.

And coo ps can do whatever they deem desirable because I haven't seen any transmission, multiple circuits. When they have dead ends they are not in the way of the climbing side. But I would change if they do get double circuits. But I just see they usually just rebuild and put bigger wire.

That's my perfect world. Because I think it's stupid too gut guys or have a grounded guy in your work area. Maybe link fishing rods till your ten feet from the ground and then we don't have to Carry those heavy coils of guy wire!

[Old Line Dog]

I think this thread is sorta funny.
We can debate the actual "relivance" of the procedure, all we want...

Ya do it...cause it's SPEC. THAT is the way your company wants you to build it.

I learned a LONG time ago, as a contractor....I'm a Hired gun. I do and build the way the people that are payin me to work on their system want me to work..

"Have Tools...Will Travel". The Way...it USE to be.....

Before I got old and ****...and Retired!!!