Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
  1. Default Life saving rules

    Featured Sponsor

    Anyone ever heard of Life saving rules? We have three at Allegheny Power, if you get caught breaking one, your immediatly terminated. They are; being inreach of energized conductor over 600 volts without high voltage gloves on, overhead or URD, and failure to ground conductors when needed to perform work. Just courious if others have these rules?

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boogerman View Post
    Anyone ever heard of Life saving rules? We have three at Allegheny Power, if you get caught breaking one, your immediatly terminated. They are; being inreach of energized conductor over 600 volts without high voltage gloves on, overhead or URD, and failure to ground conductors when needed to perform work. Just courious if others have these rules?
    Did I miss something? That's two.
    Please share the third one with us.
    You could also call them, "Rules to Live by".

    I am very curious to know if a lineman was witnessed breaking one of the three rules you speak of, what would happen to his/her immediate supervisor.
    I'm talking about a LEADHAND, SUBFOREMAN, CREW CHIEF or what ever you want to call the leader.
    Linemen who ignore the rules are receiving an unwritten approval by the leader. You and I both know that the supervisor has seen it and accepted it because he/she isn't a good representative of management or he/she is trying to be MR. nice guy(doesn't work), or he/she is trying to push the job and sees rules as time consuming or doesn't believe in them.
    That's where the rubber meets the road.
    Now your saying that the leader just walks away to repeat his/her lack of leadership. I say the supervisor should go with him/her or even be sent packing alone.
    He isn't doing his job either!
    The Old Lineman

  3. Default lieman A

    The fisrt rule is really two as it applies to OH or URD. You bring up the point I was looking for. On recent past the grounding rule was supposedly broken. A manager was on site the entire time. The result, 2 lead lineman fired, 2 lineman A got ten days off, 2 young lineman got letters. Does any on else make common practice of taking grounded conductors into or onto energized poles.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,512
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boogerman View Post
    Does any on else make common practice of taking grounded conductors into or onto energized poles.
    I dont quite understand your question, could you clarify?

    I believe Allegheny is represented by a Union, are you saying the those rules are agreed to in the Collective Bargaining Agreement? Or are you saying the infraction is so agregious that it doesnt warrant progressive discipline?
    "It is not the critic who counts:The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena" Teddy Roosevelt

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orgnizdlbr View Post
    I dont quite understand your question, could you clarify?

    I believe Allegheny is represented by a Union, are you saying the those rules are agreed to in the Collective Bargaining Agreement? Or are you saying the infraction is so agregious that it doesnt warrant progressive discipline?

    I think these are as Dr. Phil calls them, "absolute deal breakers"' in order to pull this off you have to document that everyone involved has been taught and told. That's the basic reason why management has the recipients of corses and safety meetings sign that they are fully informed and understand the consequences of their folly.
    That should be considered the first warning by the union. The next step is 'caught in the act' so there is no defense.
    The union doesn't want to harbour reckless workers as it shines a bad light onto the union. Everybody is trying to save these people from themselves.
    Perhaps it seems harsh but it only has to happen once before everybody smartens up.
    If you are a rebel why should you be treated with kid gloves?
    I guess the question you should be asking yourself is, "why would the union support and protect a rule violator"? Often those people kill others who are innocent. Aren't you reading these posts?
    Would your union stand behind you if you were caught 'red handed' stealing copper. They would lose all credibility if they did.
    "Caught once shame on you, caught twice shame on me".
    This will become a hotter issue as the regulators (OSHA or whoever) turns their attention to the group who has ultimate responsibility. MANAGEMENT.
    The Old Lineman

  6. #6

    Angry Cluster F**K

    I agree that being disciplined when caught is the right thing to do. But.... what should a foreman do when the Line Supt. wont back him up on these problems?
    Its the wild west here when it comes to safety with some guys. You have the tailgate and tell them what to do and as soon as you are out of sight or not watching they quit wearing rubber gloves and you have apprentices complaining the next day why they should have to answer to a journeyman who breaks safety rules and then tells the apprentice the Foreman doesnt know what he is talking about . If the Foreman jumps over the Line Supt. to try and solve the problem then the Supt. goes into defensive mode covering his ass with management and tells them everything will be taken care of which of course never happens. Thats what I call a Cluster F**k. Anybody else seen these kind of problems?? And then of course the apprentices lose all respect for the Journeymen and refuse to take orders from any of them. What a circus !!
    The Union says its a management problem , management avoids the problem and the Foreman is left with the problem. How do I deal with this? ---HELP---

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,512
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by old lineman View Post
    I think these are as Dr. Phil calls them, "absolute deal breakers"' in order to pull this off you have to document that everyone involved has been taught and told. That's the basic reason why management has the recipients of corses and safety meetings sign that they are fully informed and understand the consequences of their folly.
    That should be considered the first warning by the union. The next step is 'caught in the act' so there is no defense.
    The union doesn't want to harbour reckless workers as it shines a bad light onto the union. Everybody is trying to save these people from themselves.
    Perhaps it seems harsh but it only has to happen once before everybody smartens up.
    If you are a rebel why should you be treated with kid gloves?
    I guess the question you should be asking yourself is, "why would the union support and protect a rule violator"? Often those people kill others who are innocent. Aren't you reading these posts?
    Would your union stand behind you if you were caught 'red handed' stealing copper. They would lose all credibility if they did.
    "Caught once shame on you, caught twice shame on me".
    This will become a hotter issue as the regulators (OSHA or whoever) turns their attention to the group who has ultimate responsibility. MANAGEMENT.
    The Old Lineman
    My question was in 2 parts, one was asking about the specific violation with regards to boogs question about grounded conductors on or adjacent to energized poles. I dont understand the question. I asked if he could clarify in order to attempt to provided some insight to Boog if possible.

    The 2nd dealt with asking if there was specific language in the CBA that made an infraction of a rule automatically a terminitable offense. The key word in the question was agregious. As for Dr. Phil, I'm not sure he is party to any Collective Bargaining Agreement. The advise he dispenses certainly is not rooted in labor law or the employee/employer relationship.

    Now, as far as infractions or violations of rules go, specifically safety rules where violations rise to the level of what is implied in Boogs statement, certainly those types of violations deserve discipline comensurate with the violation. Boog states that a rule was "supposedly" broken. Who was of the opinion that the rule was broken? Were there mitigating circumstances? Were the employees long term with clean safety records? Ultimately, would an arbitrator sustain a termination in this case. Not enough information was posted for me to be able to makes the statement that automatic termination was warranted.

    Your analogy of copper theft being equal to a safety violation is not proper. You get caught stealing, your gone!

    Do not miscontrue my post, safety rules are to be followed. Most safety rules specific to gloving are there for good reason, break those rules you deserve discipline.
    "It is not the critic who counts:The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena" Teddy Roosevelt

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,512
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dbearman View Post
    I agree that being disciplined when caught is the right thing to do. But.... what should a foreman do when the Line Supt. wont back him up on these problems?
    Its the wild west here when it comes to safety with some guys. You have the tailgate and tell them what to do and as soon as you are out of sight or not watching they quit wearing rubber gloves and you have apprentices complaining the next day why they should have to answer to a journeyman who breaks safety rules and then tells the apprentice the Foreman doesnt know what he is talking about . If the Foreman jumps over the Line Supt. to try and solve the problem then the Supt. goes into defensive mode covering his ass with management and tells them everything will be taken care of which of course never happens. Thats what I call a Cluster F**k. Anybody else seen these kind of problems?? And then of course the apprentices lose all respect for the Journeymen and refuse to take orders from any of them. What a circus !!
    The Union says its a management problem , management avoids the problem and the Foreman is left with the problem. How do I deal with this? ---HELP---
    Enable you PM's I'll try to give some help.
    "It is not the critic who counts:The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena" Teddy Roosevelt

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orgnizdlbr View Post
    I dont quite understand your question, could you clarify?

    I believe Allegheny is represented by a Union, are you saying the those rules are agreed to in the Collective Bargaining Agreement? Or are you saying the infraction is so agregious that it doesnt warrant progressive discipline?
    Me too. Is he talking about grounding, say, 26kv on a pole where there's hot 13kv circuits as well? If that's the case then, yeah, we'll rubber up the primary (obvious) and test/ground the 26 to safely work within a safety area. ..err..parameters or whatever you wanna call it, all the while wearing proper safety gear.

  10. Default

    Featured Sponsorr

    Now that I have sparked interest let me explain the whole senerio. First these rules are not a result of collective barganing.They are rules put in place by the company. The setting goes like this. A new radial feed line was biult, how many sections I don't know. A slack span off of the main line was to feed the new tap. The new conductor ( 556) was connected to the main line pole with the tails taped back. The main line was rubbered up,the slack span is three feet below the main line. This is where the problem comes into play. The other end of the slack span was picked up off the ground to be tied on a hand line to be pulled up to lineman in the bucket. The groundman was wearing rubber gloves and die-electric overshoes when he touched the conductor, bucket man had gloves, sleeves on also. These men had clean saftey records. Our saftey people said the new wire being picked up from the ground needed to be grounded before putting it on a handline. For this they received the infraction I mentioned in the earlier e-mail. Does this seem extreme to any of you?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •