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  1. #1
    lineman-up Guest

    Default competant person?

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    i work at a small utility. we recently hired a guy basically off the street( no experience NONE!!!!!) he has been working with me and trying to learn the rope. he has been here for about two monthes and the other day one of the other lineman took him out and had him working on hot secondaries on a padmount. i was not happybut i cant do much because this guy is ass. foreman. now he has no training, and was actually hired twenty years ago as a gargage man, he has no formal traing .. i have went through a apprenticeship at my own cost and received a journeyman card, I am wondering if i am on a job and this guy kills someone am i liable or will i be considered the competant person. i am just getting nervous because the line foreman and general manger seem to not mind. i think you need at least a few years before working anything hot.

    thanks for any advice

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    1,716

    Default

    Our Apprenticeship progression reads as follows:

    0-1000 hours: Apprentice should be issued climbing gear and begin learning to climb. Greatest emphasis should be placed on safety awareness and hazard recognition. No work on energized equipment.

    1000-2000 hours: Apprentice should be issued rubber gloves and allowed to work 600 volts or less as his climbing ability allows, but not on energized primary equipment, poles or structures.

    2000-3000: Apprentice should be allowed to work on any equipment, pole or structure, but not within reaching or falling distance of conductors energized at more than 600 volts.

    There are 4 more steps.

  3. #3
    lineman-up Guest

    Default thanks

    tks duck, can you also post the other four steps. are you union( i assume you are) we are not, hopefully i can keep this guy alive. climing gets no respect here, of the four lineman two climb, and we have one journeyman!!!! nice huh????

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    1,716

    Default

    You are correct, we are union. Where in MN are you?

    3000-4000 hours: Apprentice shall be allowed to work energized primary voltage with a qualified lineman on energized equipment, poles or structures.

    4000-5000 hours: Apprentice shall continue to work energized primary voltage with a qualified lineman on energized equipment, poles or structures but more responsibility for safety and equipment operation should be assumed.

    5000-6000 hours. Apprentice shall continue to work energized primary voltage with a qualified lineman on energized equipment, poles or structures and become more aware of his responsibility to his co-workers, the public and his public image by sharing the problems.

    6000-7000 hours: Apprentice shall continue to work energized primary voltage with a qualified lineman on energized equipment, poles or structures, but should be given the lead on selected jobs to develop his leadership ability.


    There is a bunch of bookwork and classes that go along with the hours. This is an IBEW program.

  5. #5

    Default

    I have to admit that having done a formal and tough industrial apprenticeship at the beginning of my career, it does get my goat when I come across people who have "stumbled" into the industry in a less formal manner.

    That said, I'm not naive enough to assume that because they didn't do an apprenticeship that they are not skilled at their trade. Many started as labourers or mates but ended up doing the work during busy times and ultimately ended up doing the technical work full time. These people sometimes end up doing the work of a tradesman for the wages of a labourer, which is wrong, but without the formal qualifications they get stuck in a rut which means working by day and studying at night to try and formalise their status as a journeyman.

    Have you ever thought about when you were an apprentice? Was it all 100% solid training or were you just used as a gopher a lot of the time? Did you really understand the electrical education then when you weren't actually doing it yourself for real? Don't you wish you could go back to school and get some loose ends of your technical knowledge tied up now? In a sense these people who took the other door into the industry have the advantage that they have experienced the trade for real at every level BEFORE getting the schooling, so there's a good chance the educational material is going to make a lot more sense to them and be a lot easier to remember.
    Portable defibrillators were first invented to save the lives of linemen. Where's yours?

    www.bigclive.com

  6. #6
    lineman-up Guest

    Default competant

    i agree clive, however the guy taking the new guy out has no formal training and has only been doing line work for about six years. mostly on the ground, he is scared of heights and i have seen him work primary maybe five times in five years. he has very limited knowledge and somehow because of seniority has a position of power. now our new guy has no knowledge of electricity at all, i have attenede line school and done an apprenticeship program, my belief is that out new guy should be on the job more than two monthes before doing hot work. now if i should say something to my superior who has apprenticeship or training i will get hit with insubordintation, but i feel being the journeyman that i may be held responsible when the new guy gets hurt!! i do agree with ojt being the best training but you need some knowledge, he doesnt even know what any of the parts, voltages or tools are!!!!! i just dont want to have to call his wife and tell her he is in the burn unit or see me end up in jail!!!

  7. #7

    Wink Our rules in Washington

    “Qualified person or qualified employee” - A person who is familiar with the construction of, or operation of such lines and/or equipment that concerns his/her position and who is fully aware of the hazards connected therewith, or, one who has passed a journey status examination for the particular branch of the electrical trades with which he/she may be connected.

    Note 1: An employee must have the training required by WAC 296-45-065(1) in order to be considered a qualified employee.

    Note 2: (Apprentice) Except under WAC 296-45-25510(12), an employee who is undergoing on-the-job training and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated an ability to perform duties safely at his or her level of training and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person is considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those duties.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    LEE'S SUMMIT, MISSOURI
    Posts
    180

    Thumbs down 7000 hours ??? ....

    What it that,a 5 or 6 year apprenticeship? You still hirin' off the street? My company hires them right out of LINEMAN SCHOOL. And that is pretty much it. You didn't go to LINEMAN SCHOOL, you ain't gettin' the job. That's why they post the openings as 2nd year apprentices. They give them 1 year credit for LINEMAN SCHOOL then make them complete the remaining 3 years out of the 4 year apprenticeship. Basically they get to skip the first year. But they are allowed to work hot secondaries from day 1 under close supervision of the linemen/foremen. If you are a 2nd year apprentice you are expected to be able to work secondaries and services hot. The required hot hours to make journeyman was recently reduced from 2500 hours to 2000 hours of hot time. Requiring them to do thousand's of hours on this and thousand's on that leads to 1 thing; cheating on the Apprentice hours time-sheets/logs. C'mon dudes....

  9. #9
    lineman-up Guest

    Default competant?

    i agree cowboy, we actually hired this apprentice as a garbage man then moved him to the line crew. i know the frustration, i did attend line school and do an apprentice but i can believe we hire guys with no experience!!! if i told you what we pay him you would die!!! remember a couple of monthes ago this guy was slinging trash, he is a damn good worker but i doubt there is much of a future in this field with no hands or worse

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    1,716

    Default

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    Our compay quit hiring people from the closest line school because most of the guys from the line school moved back home after they finished their apprenticeship. We still hire guys from the lineschool if they are from around here, but they start out as a Groundman.

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