Grounding.....

[Trbl639]

Heard that my old company is looking at some new Grounding Proceedures, and was wondering if anybody else was doing this..........

On rural single or 3 phase, source Grounds would be an option (but switches still flagged and tagged), Box/working grounds would still be required, or EPZ (only if the wire is still intact)....but....

The Neutral, would have to be opened up, Visible Air Gap, flagged and tagged..between the work area and the source.........to prevent anything 'coming back' to the work area..........also Di-electric booties will be required


Also the Working 'AS HOT' option is going to be brought back....but all cover-up will be used, and also everything will be Documented, from what the job is, all the way to how it was covered and each step in the entire process.....

Each work area will have to be Certified in this 'new' proceedure, before they can begin using it!!

[topgroove]

I'm not a big fan of opening up the neutral I think thats a step in the wrong direction. the whole point is to bring everything to the same potential!

[Highplains Drifter]

I'm not a big fan of opening up the neutral I think thats a step in the wrong direction. the whole point is to bring everything to the same potential!

That was my first thought too, some body is going to get hurt. I have heard when trucks are grounded no booties, but if no truck grounded....wear them. Not all the time. Personally I don't want my bucket grounded so the ground help can suffer wearing rubber boots when it is a 100*s.

[lewy]

EPZ is definitely the way to go along with your work protection code, , but you would be crazy to disconnect your neutral, it is tied to your station & your best return path. Depending on your system & how rural you actually are you might also want to install a temporary ground rod as well as your system neutral. Also you would want to bond your RBD as well if they are going to be in the work zone.
I also think bringing the "Working 'AS HOT' option" back is a step backwards, we use to do it & I never seen anyone myself included treat it the same as if it was actually alive. We had a big meeting about this with our guys from E&USA & we could not come up with a job that we could only do with a line isolated as compared to grounded or live.
We always ground are RBDs & if our bucket trucks do not have a lower insert when working live we also always ground, but I think it is more important if there is a chance of getting your knuckle into something.
I have never seen Di-electric booties & they are not required up here, but our boots do have to have the omega symbol which means they have been di-electrically tested which is fine when the boots are brand new.

[Trbl639]

Good points guys!!

Never big a big fan of opening the neutral either!!

EPZ is good, but we're only allowed to use if if the conductors are intact...No wire broken/down...

As far as the booties...never worn em, and we were not required to wear the di-electric rated boots either...understand the company will supply 3 pairs of booties..short for summer/tall for winter

As far as the 'AS Hot' option..........i like the idea of bringing it back...like I mentioned, there will be complete Documentation of everything with the new option.......but in the past, say a jumper on a disconnect went bad or the disconnect itself, with the As Hot option, 2 T-men could run up, slap a mac on it and have service restored in short order, where killing/grounding everything might take several hours to get additional men/crew....Clearance, then grounding etc...and our grounding rules might require 6 or more sets of grounds, depending on the situation, and with a jumper bad, EPZ was not and option....sometimes in rural areas, it's easier to find 1 man to assist a Tman than it is to round up a crew!!

I understand, this is still in planning and will be a few months before it all starts rolling out into the field.......but it's coming!

[lewy]

Good points guys!!

Never big a big fan of opening the neutral either!!

EPZ is good, but we're only allowed to use if if the conductors are intact...No wire broken/down...

As far as the booties...never worn em, and we were not required to wear the di-electric rated boots either...understand the company will supply 3 pairs of booties..short for summer/tall for winter

As far as the 'AS Hot' option..........i like the idea of bringing it back...like I mentioned, there will be complete Documentation of everything with the new option.......but in the past, say a jumper on a disconnect went bad or the disconnect itself, with the As Hot option, 2 T-men could run up, slap a mac on it and have service restored in short order, where killing/grounding everything might take several hours to get additional men/crew....Clearance, then grounding etc...and our grounding rules might require 6 or more sets of grounds, depending on the situation, and with a jumper bad, EPZ was not and option....sometimes in rural areas, it's easier to find 1 man to assist a Tman than it is to round up a crew!!

I understand, this is still in planning and will be a few months before it all starts rolling out into the field.......but it's coming!

With EPZ & a broken conductor you would also have to have both sides bonded to keep them at the same potential. Why would you need so many sets of grounds with your EPZ?
I think we have a different idea of As Hot, the examples you gave you would be working hot. What I am saying is if an insulator breaks & dumps the cct, in order for us to make repairs we would have to do it live or grounded, we could not just rubber glove the isolated conductor.

[Orgnizdlbr]

open a system neutral, what for and I dont think so........?

[Trbl639]

With EPZ & a broken conductor you would also have to have both sides bonded to keep them at the same potential. Why would you need so many sets of grounds with your EPZ?
I think we have a different idea of As Hot, the examples you gave you would be working hot. What I am saying is if an insulator breaks & dumps the cct, in order for us to make repairs we would have to do it live or grounded, we could not just rubber glove the isolated conductor.

Our EPZ Rule was/is , can only be used when the conductor is not broken, ie, replace a bad insulator or arm.......if it cannot be worked energized! This outfit doesn't use boards anymore, although apes are taught in training, how to hang one and climb on it!!! So if there's no truck access, well......kill it and climb it and ground it....,didn't do stick work either anymore..

As for as my example, jumper burnt off on a disconnect/Mainline/feeder...under the old 'As Hot' rule, dump the circuit and 2 Tmen could slap a Mac on it, then heat it back up, then crew make permanent repair, as far as grounding it to work it Dead Grounded.......the way the rules were written, all potential sources into the area had to be grounded, and if there were NO switches/made up solid jumpers, well it took a set of grounds!! If switches were there, well open and tag.....if not, grounds....and lots of places here, had solid jumpers where switches should have been........the situation determined, which route you had to go...Whether the line was dispatcher controlled or 'local'.....

I know it was Overkill, sometimes with all the grounds needed the way the rules were written, we didn't write, we had to live by em!!

If ya want to, Pm and maybe I can explain it better.....the new rules are actually gonna make things somewhat easier than they were, compared to the existing rules.....although not sure I agree with the opening the neutral idea at all................

[Big22]

when we need to get work protection on a line, we follow two ways to ground
we use point of work grounds or bracket grounding and we can't have grounds father then 300 feet away from the work area or when you can't see them and we never work on line dead with out grounds cause its not dead if theres no grounds on and we never cut the netural cause maybe its a loop feed and every thing has to be at the same potential

[hotwiretamer]

I think the idea behind opening the neutral is the Isolation method in blow downs or broken conductor laying on the ground. If you isolate all conductors and neutral, no need for EPZ grounding. You can't have a true EPZ with conductor on ground without installing a ground mat in the work area. That would be a big mat! If you can't open the neutral your supposed to EPZ, protecting yourself from fault current coming back on the neutral while you are standing at a different potential, earth. We are going through this right now at our co. and some of the suggestions on how to solve this is freakin insane. They will have us in rubber gloves and rubber booties before it is all over with, working on dead line!!