Wisconsin loosing right to collective bargaining

[electriklady]

Here's an alternative "something has to give" plan for Wisconsin



"Something has to give, say people backing Wisconsin's governor, Scott Walker. And that something just has to be the wages and collective bargaining rights of public sector workers.
Early in this epic battle, Wisconsin's Journal Sentinel's editorial board wrote, on February 12, "Walker is right to do this. He must insist that state workers pay a bigger share of their benefits. And he's right to take steps to compel them to do so... Walker must fill a gaping budget hole of $137 million for the fiscal year that ends June 30 and a much larger imbalance in the next two-year budget. Something has to give."
The hole by 2013 is expected to be around $3.6 billion, so a few more things are going to have to give if Governor Walker's going to crack that nut. But, hey, everyone's going to make a sacrifice, right? So says the Wisconsin Club for Growth. They're the outfit that says, "our leaders must stand up to the tax and spend mentality in Madison and work tirelessly to cut taxes and unleash the power of the free-market." The Club for Growth should be called the "Club for Greed" -- that's what Mike Huckabee told The New Yorker magazine in 2007.
Here's a television ad they ran to support Governor Walker:
"All across Wisconsin, people are making sacrifices to keep their jobs: frozen wages, pay cuts, and paying more for health care. But state workers haven't had to sacrifice. They pay next to nothing for their pensions and a fraction of their health care. It's not fair! Call your state legislator and tell them to vote for Governor Walker's Budget Repair Bill. It's time state employees paid their fair share, just like the rest of us".
While public sector workers failed to heed the call of the Club for Growth, some people who benefited most from the "unleashed power of the free-market" are making their sacrifice.
Wisconsin retail magnate John Menard, from Eau Claire, Wisconsin, dropped to number 51 from number 44 last year on the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans. Now, his net worth did climb from $5 billion in 2009 to $5.2 billion in 2010, but imagine how he felt the day he opened Forbes and found his rating had gone down.
Herbert V. Kohler Jr., the plumbing giant from Kohler, Wisconsin, made an even bigger sacrifice. His net worth went from $3 billion in '09 to only $2 billion in 2010. His Forbes ranking fell from 97th to 182nd.
This should make Mr. Kohler's workers feel better about accepting their latest contract that includes a two-tier pay structure. Current workers, who make an average of $22.50 an hour at Kohler plumbing will have their wages frozen for five years. New workers will make $14.50 an hour. Wisconsin's Harley-Davidson and Mercury Marine won similar contracts. In all three cases, workers were made to understand their choice was to accept the concessions, or the companies would move out of Wisconsin.
No wonder, according to the Wisconsin Club for Growth, these workers should demand that public sector workers share their fate. It's clear the government can't threaten to leave the state to win similar concessions, so this legislation must be needed to make it all fair.
Unlike greedy public sector workers, joining their fellow Wisconsinites in taking the fair share of the pain were:
-- Donald Schneider of Schneider National Inc., a Green Bay trucking company. He held his wealth at $2.5 billion, but dropped from number 123 on Forbes' list to number 144.
-- Afton, Wisconsin's Diane Hendricks, of ABC Supply Co. Inc., saw her ranking fall from 158th to 170th. Yet she found some solace in the fact her net worth grew by $100 million to $2.1 billion.
-- Members of the Johnson family of Racine, Wisconsin, bucked the trend, apparently, and refused to share the burden. They were four family members at 182nd on the list and $2 billion each. That was $50 million more and one ranking better than they did in '09.
-- Same goes for James Cargill of Birchwood, Wisconsin. His net worth grew from $1.6 billion to $1.9 billion and a ranking that went from 220 last year to 205 in 2010.
So, we're told there's a dire emergency to find $137 million by June and $3.6 billion by 2013. Something has to give. But why is it the public sector workers? I have a couple of alternative suggestions.
Thirty million's all the governor's apparently going get out of the concessions he's demanded from public sector workers on their pension and health care payments, and for some reason that's beyond me, the unions have agreed to it.
But here's a much easier way to raise the dough. Just go back to 2008 levels of state-legislated estate taxes. According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, "no state estate tax has been collected for deaths occurring on or after January 1, 2008."
Wisconsin picked up $158.8 million in 2008, so if that tax were collected for 2009 and 2010, there'd be enough to fill the short-term hole and perhaps give those workers at Kohler, Mercury Marine, and Harley Davidson a bit of a tax break.
Now let's get out the heavy equipment and fill that $3.6 billion hole.
In 2001, estates paid 55 percent federal tax after the first $675,000, which was exempt. It had been that way for around 85 years. After the Bush presidency, in 2009 the rate was down to 45 percent after $3.5 million was exempt. For the next two years, in a deal negotiated by President Obama and the Republicans, the rate will be 35 percent after an exempt $5 million.
So, here's my "something has to give" plan. How about Wisconsin passes a law that takes the estate tax level back to 2001? In other words, the state adds 20 percent to the current 35 percent federal tax. And let's say the first million's tax free. The state would have to establish its own rules on what was taxable; the federal guidelines just create too many ways to avoid the tax.
By my math, the collective net worth of the esteemed group on the Forbes 400 from Wisconsin mentioned above comes to around $21.7 billion. That would make Wisconsin's share of their estates at the time of passing around $4 billion if you follow my plan. We just paid down the debt.
Now, while the Wisconsin Group for Growth calls for sacrifice, I'm sure even they wouldn't expect these billionaires to voluntarily die by 2013. But if the state knows the money's coming in, it shouldn't be too hard to work out the finances.
For the libertarians in the audience, consider this. If you believe that capitalism works when it's truly the survival of the fittest, doesn't such concentrated wealth handed down from generation to generation defeat that objective?
The obvious other objection to my plan is that these billionaires will take flight to parts unknown to avoid the tax, somewhat the way they threatened to pull their companies out of Wisconsin if workers didn't agree to the two-tier pay structure.
But there's ways of dealing with all of this. As far as the estate tax goes, a real federal estate tax with a proper share going to the states would solve part of the problem. Failing that, the state could go after fixed assets like houses and office buildings. I'm sure if the legal brains working in the public service set their minds to it, they can come up with all kinds of effective measures. While they're at it, how about a law that says if you move your company out of the state during a labor dispute, the state will no longer buy any of your products?
State governments, if they were really interested in the debt and not breaking unions, could use public pressure. Maybe even the Wisconsin Club for Growth will take out some more ads calling on billionaires to pay their fair share.
Okay, I guess not. But why is it that the free market demands that the rights of private wealth and corporations must be protected, but it's okay for the government to dictate to workers, telling them they're not free to refuse to sell their labor, even if they don't agree with the price or the conditions of their employment?
The point is, when something has to give, whether it's the public debt or problems at Kohler, Mercury Marine, and Harley Davidson, why is it acceptable that workers sacrifice, and sacrilegious to suggest it should be the billionaires?"

written by Paul Jay, CEO and senior editor of "The Real News Network" as printed in the Huffington Post.

[wtdoor67]

My statements on the main points are not opinions Swampdummy. I did work for the govt. for approx. 5 years and we were Union. That's what I stated. I have worked non-union contractor and union contractor. I have worked non-union power co. and union power co. I have never stated anything that I did not experience. You run your stupid mouth about the govt. funding unions etc. and completely, as usual, have no experience to back you up. Your whole drivel about the Wisconsin problem is nothing but your opinion.

Have you run out of hard drawn #6 yet? Take a hint and step it up to #4. Or as someone said. Make em out of armor rod. Heh, heh, heh.

[electriklady]

It is a "conflict of interest" when my tax dollars go to pay for a low life politician who plots and schemes all year to find ways to "shove it up my anal cavity" and make all the fair and moral rules for the rich and powerful....it is a conflict of my damn interest.....and I have decided based on the job that they do.....that they are not worth one damn dollar of my tax dollars.......so I am gonna make a ruling that they get a damn big cut in pay and they better like it and shut their damn whining mouths. They have no say in it, it is our money. What do ya think guys? $5 an hour sound good to you? I know I know.......a little high....but we gotta give em a little incentive to continue to try to "stick it to the middle class taxpayers whom they are so loyal to."

[electriklady]

oooooooooooooooooo, ouch, that hurt so much, I will never READ HP again.........................

I told you .....I am coming over to your side...........I am going to stop reading and listening to a multitide of news reporting agencies and I am going to sit in front of my tv like a mindless drone and absorb all of fox's truths until I am so saturated with the REAL TRUTH, that I will have to regurgitate all that knowledge, expertise, and true Americanism back out to the public so they will become mindless drones also. I wanna share the wealth,,,,,,,,that socialist part of me just wont go away......concern for my fellow mans comprehension of the REAL and only truth.



excuse me.....I have to go vomit now!

[electriklady]

I dont remember walker running on a platform of "f$%king the working class" or overt union busting.......maybe I missed that!

[electriklady]

That is the one thing that ya dont get about unionism....well actually there are a lot of things you dont get about unionism.....but one of the ones that stands out to me is that..........by belonging to an "entity" that has had to fight, and yes, even give blood, for every right we have ever won or continue to have, is that if you attack one, you attack all, and we will fight back, we will stand side by side with the attackee.........I would like to thank that teagagger for waking the working class up and reviving the union movement.

What was that saying my mamma used to say......."Drastic measures for drastic times......yoo hoo,,,,oh gov walker.........that works both ways! The unions are gonna run on that platform.

[loose neutral]

: What do ya think guys? $5 an hour sound good to you? I know I know.......a little high....but we gotta give em a little incentive to continue to try to "stick it to the middle class taxpayers whom they are so loyal to."

$5 ? !!! JEEEEEZ EL,are you friggin' nuts? !!! I can only justify $4.99. That extra penny would put me under, yes Regis, that is my final answer.

[electriklady]

What I "get" lady, is the DIFFERENCE between Public Union, and Private Sector Union...TAXPAYER Paid for Union. And, that shit pisses me, and Alot of Other Americans off.

You, on the other hand...can't see or understand the "difference". You hear the word "union", and that's all it takes. You come screamin in FAVOR!! Union!

We'll just agree to Dissagree my Lady.
Keep watchin Wisconsin.....

When I hear the word union, I hear far more than the word "union"......what I hear is "a voice in the workplace".......I hear "fair treatment, I hear fair pay, I hear fair benefits, and I hear protection from those who would abuse their position above the "average working Joe," either self imposed or sanctioned by corporate power mongers.....so yes......I will continue to scream......"power to the working man" of that you are correct......I understand the difference just fine........and I also understand "the sameness".......unlike you who has never done anything on this board but bash ALL unions, call anyone who complains about the inequality, greed, abuse of power, etc a whiner or a socialist. What I am is a "working person".....who like so many others in this country has worked hard all my life, I do not ask for more than what I earn, I am damn PROUD to be a working class person and for what I contribute to the success of any company I work for. I believe in caring for a fellow man, who has less than I, who is being treated unfairly, I care for the children of this country, I care for the elderly of this country, and I care for my peers.....I believe rules should be made to be followed by ALL, not just those who can pay or do other favors to be exempt from the rules. I believe the "working class" built this country and continues to keep it running, despite the abuses of those above us that are more than likely a self serving group of greedy corrupt and unethical group of lowlifes. I believe if I screw up or do something that I shouldnt that causes myself or others pain or discomfort in any form, it is my fault, and it is my responsibility to rectify my actions, and not ask others to "foot my bill." so dont talk to me about what I do or do not understand.........I understand things just fine.....I have worked all my life in this country........35 years..........since I was 17 years old.....and I have seen it go from $hit to $hitier......and I, for one, have had enough. So dont talk to me like I am an ignorant child who is in need of educating.....I have gone to the school of life.......and I am as pleased as can be with the knowledge that has come out of that education, and I dont need you to insult it. Obviously we have lived different lives, but as I would stand up for a family member, I will stand up for my "family members" in the workplace or in my class of life.
The cards are obviously stacked against us and we all need to stick together, minus you, of course.....you just worry about you........and carry on

[electriklady]

Colbert states it eloquently...................


He has got all of us "union thugs" number............

Good strategy Tea Party Nation



http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...1/bust-in-show

[wtdoor67]

Greggo, I would bet you, like ever other person on this forum didn't have a clue who the governor of Wisconsin even was, until all this hullabalu. Probably some people from Wisconsin or maybe Michigan knew.

As far as knowing what kind of a platform he ran on. That's a joke cause you didn't even know who he was. You have no clue unless you have researched it via the web since all this protest.

Basically as usual you are just a bald faced liar.

I'm gonna have to agree with Batts on your character. Hands on fire.