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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volcom View Post
    How do you eqipotential a down wire? There is no need to speculate till we have the facts, too many stories already
    There was no speculation on my part on how the accident happened, just explaining EPZ. In answer to how: while using insulating protective equipment lay a EPZ mat down, or at least drive a ground rod, then attach a jumper from the mat or rod to the down wire with a hot stick. Then bond the two ends of the downed wire with jumper. You will then have an EPZ at your location. This is of course after you have grounded all three phases at the tower closest to the work location.

  2. #12

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    We don't have those mats, never seen them, still no real information on what happened and it's a week later, we were told epz is only for guy on pole, or in bucket on that pole, in theory it works but on a mountain w down trees everywhere, among other obstacles, it's impractical,

  3. #13

    Default Appretice

    What a tragedy,appears he was doing things right having a least his gloves on.I think all of us at one time or another in our careers have done this.Falling on the wire?Very unfortunate thing.Thoughts and prayers go out to the family and anyone else involved in this accident........

  4. #14

    Default Apprentice

    What a tragedy,appears he was doing things right having a least his gloves on.I think all of us at one time or another in our careers have done this.Falling on the wire?Very unfortunate thing.Thoughts and prayers go out to the family and anyone else involved in this accident........

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volcom View Post
    We don't have those mats, never seen them, still no real information on what happened and it's a week later, we were told epz is only for guy on pole, or in bucket on that pole, in theory it works but on a mountain w down trees everywhere, among other obstacles, it's impractical,
    In the early seventies I had an older lineman teach me about"difference of potential", especially around transmission, since the difference of potential can be so high. He basically taught me how to use an EPZ zone, as well as showed me where to find some of the same practices in "The Lineman Cableman Handbook". This is not something new, they just gave it a name in the last 20 or so years, and started developing products to make it easier. Who ever told you this technique is only used on a pole, or in a bucket is dead wrong, and should do a bit of study on the subject. Like this same older lineman told me back then, "ignorance is no excuse". Learning all aspects of our profession is up to every one of us, and an EPZ stopped being a theory back in the 50's. Check out Bonneville Power Administrations "Straw Man Tests" in the late 1940's. The only thing impractical in setting it up in the situation you described, is not being knowledgeable enough to protect your own life in any given situation.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by US & CA Tramp View Post
    In the early seventies I had an older lineman teach me about"difference of potential", especially around transmission, since the difference of potential can be so high. He basically taught me how to use an EPZ zone, as well as showed me where to find some of the same practices in "The Lineman Cableman Handbook". This is not something new, they just gave it a name in the last 20 or so years, and started developing products to make it easier. Who ever told you this technique is only used on a pole, or in a bucket is dead wrong, and should do a bit of study on the subject. Like this same older lineman told me back then, "ignorance is no excuse". Learning all aspects of our profession is up to every one of us, and an EPZ stopped being a theory back in the 50's. Check out Bonneville Power Administrations "Straw Man Tests" in the late 1940's. The only thing impractical in setting it up in the situation you described, is not being knowledgeable enough to protect your own life in any given situation.
    Absolutely right! EPZ is not new, has been around, literally, for decades. I am constantly amazed at the number of linemen and companies for that matter that refuse to even consider changing. If anyone thinks that having a ground set on a pole even one span away is going to protect them from hazardous current flow in event of reenergization then they really don't understand basic electrical theory. Grounds on both sides of you; doesn't matter. It's all about parallel paths and resistances. If a line is reenergized that current flow doesn't all just hit those grounds and all go to neutral and earth. Current flow is going to take every single path it can find including you if you are in contact with a conductor. The only real protection, if you don't want to keep wearing rubber gloves and using coverup, is to create and EPZ at the work site. This doesn't prevent current flow but keeps you at the same potential as the conductors. If you and the conductors are the same potential there can be no current flow across/through you. An EPZ can be created almost anywhere. The grounding mats that are available today are great. Lightweight and very flexible they can be easily used to create an EPZ on the ground or in URD work. The US Bureau of Reclamation has also done extensive testing in this area. They have developed what is probably one of the best grounding procedures manuals around. You can download it off their web site. Great section of theory and explanation of EPZs in it.
    I don't give em hell, I just tell the truth and they think it is Hell! - Truman

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by wudwlkr View Post
    Absolutely right! EPZ is not new, has been around, literally, for decades. I am constantly amazed at the number of linemen and companies for that matter that refuse to even consider changing. If anyone thinks that having a ground set on a pole even one span away is going to protect them from hazardous current flow in event of reenergization then they really don't understand basic electrical theory. Grounds on both sides of you; doesn't matter. It's all about parallel paths and resistances. If a line is reenergized that current flow doesn't all just hit those grounds and all go to neutral and earth. Current flow is going to take every single path it can find including you if you are in contact with a conductor. The only real protection, if you don't want to keep wearing rubber gloves and using coverup, is to create and EPZ at the work site. This doesn't prevent current flow but keeps you at the same potential as the conductors. If you and the conductors are the same potential there can be no current flow across/through you. An EPZ can be created almost anywhere. The grounding mats that are available today are great. Lightweight and very flexible they can be easily used to create an EPZ on the ground or in URD work. The US Bureau of Reclamation has also done extensive testing in this area. They have developed what is probably one of the best grounding procedures manuals around. You can download it off their web site. Great section of theory and explanation of EPZs in it.
    I really dont know much about it,but if it saves lives,then it needs to be used,that may be the tough part.....like everything else we have been taught.

  8. Default

    Wudwlkr is indeed correct regarding equipotential grounding. Years ago, I had an incident that made me forever change the way I do my grounding. We were just beginning work on a major ice storm and I was given a Station to begin and four circuits to work on. I proceeded to ride the lines out, assessing the damage, and give a tailboard on the work we were going to do. The circuit we began on had quite a lot of damage from the station to the first set of PD's, with broken cross arms, taps down, busted insulators, etc. etc.. So I hang a complete set of grounds at the first pole out of the station and went down line about a mile and hang another full set. This was a double circuit by the way. and there were no transformers for the first mile. I began my work and after finishing the first pole, I moved down to the next. We were required to wear Gloves and Sleeves even if it was grounded...but I DID NOT use any cover-up (I had wire down, broken arms, etc. and besides I thought "it's grounded so I do not need any guts"). As I was making my way through the phases to change out another broken cross arm, my neck made contact with an uncovered phase and it literally knocked me over!!! I screamed out and backed out of the zone wondering what the world was going on? I was very confused as I boomed down and got out of the bucket. Here is what I discovered....down line about a half mile, a truck had skidded off the road due to the ice, and hit a pole. It was the same line I was working on. Another utility had a single phase 34.5 tap that connected to this pole and when it hit the pole, a jumper going into the top of a cutout broke free and fell onto our circuit. This pole was actually BETWEEN my sets of grounds. Since this was in the City, it was noisy and we never heard the truck hit the pole. For some reason, the other utilities feed did not trip out when their energized conductor fell onto our GROUNDED lines....I learned a lot about proper grounding that day!!!!
    Last edited by BUZZMAN4177; 08-13-2012 at 07:49 PM.

  9. Default Lots of theories and confusion

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    There has been lots of good discussion on this topic of EPZ.
    First of all it seems to me that the victim was walking along beside the conductor and fell onto it. he seems to have had no intention to work on it, so a simple remedy would be to tell all those involved to keep well clear to be safe.
    Obviously the victim contacted the conductor and induction was present because the grounds were too far away to drain it to zero potential where the contact was made. This alone proves that as you move away from grounds potential rises in grounded conductors.
    That's why it's critical that the rule is to apply 'point of work' grounds before work begins.
    Even with point of work grounds it's imperative that an EPZ zone is created so as has been said to eliminate any possibility of bridging between two different potentials, thereby allowing current flow from one part of the body to another. Which depending on the path of current flow can be fatal.
    It's totally false that you can only create an EPZ zone aloft.
    Think about a substation where a subterrian grid has been installed for the sole purpose of creating an EPZ from fence to fence. Another situation with the same principle is a temporary grid under conductor stringing equipment to protect the workers running the machines, splicing condutors, etc. Another example is a work platform for the RBD operator.
    There is too much ignorance about this subject and too much disblief amongst the workers.
    When an apprentice returns to work from being trained in EPZ theory the older linemen often scoff at the apprentice until he gives up the constant bucking of his piers to end up exposing himself to the dangers of current flow from one part of his body to another.
    I have the idea that older linemen that have been installing grounds for years often have never seen them do their thing and have come to the place in their minds where they believe grounding is really a MAKE WORK EXERCISE and as a result treat the effort with distain. And mock the newbies when they try to follow their training.
    It takes a very strong willed person to tell seasoned linemen that, " I don't give a crap about what you think, I'm going to follow what I've been taught".
    I wish the older linemen could just listen to what the apprentices are saying, open their minds and grasp the facts that even with grounds installed in any fashion you decide, current will flow over every path it can find for enough cycles to kill any workers bridging when it occurs.
    Come on guys don't be so vain and closed minded. The training the newbies are receiving is bang on if it includes EPZ training. We all know your dept of knowledge is vast but no one knows everything. Be humble.
    The Old Lineman
    This is a tragic loss for everone, I feel sorry for his family, let's learn from it.
    Last edited by old lineman; 08-14-2012 at 12:44 PM.

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