Has anyone ever inspected and testrd their personal grounds?

[bobbo]

Working and testing grounds, they were the best ones I have seen in my life. For twentt years just put that welding cable up and your safe. Always thought that. I was going through grounds and testing them and they were all failing. And these were fairly new grounds. I was cleaning like crazy and testing them again, still failing. I was putting on new ferrule heads, still failing. Then I started running my hand and found all the cuts from the wear. The insulation is rubber and then their is a water tight saran wrap type barrier underneath that. If there is a break in it, the corrosion starts and the welding cable strands break like dry kindling. After you mess with a bunch that failed, you will recognize a bad ground. It will have a cut and be really floppy because the strands broke. Seen a 4/0 ground have enough breakage it would be equivalent to less than a 4. And I found that those with the silver tin replaceable teeth and ferrule fitting tested better than anything else. I was ignorant before and now enlightened.

Got a question for guys who work with breakers at a sub. When you have a "one shot", what are the specifics of when it will lock out . . . Amps, cycles, etc? And if you know that info, do you know if that is a standard or code throughout the US. If you have a bad personal ground, its got to go off like a bomb. I remember we were pulling wire when I was an apprentice, and we were at the reel end. A wind gust came and a layed out ratty wire went sideways. We had everything grounded: the rolling ground, the reel trailer, the operator grate. . . Three grounds driven hard. And the funny thing was the fault current went through our pintle hook of the trailerto the digger and caught the wooden pads on fire. The only good thing was there was only two strands melted on the contact point of the 795 we pulled in.

Its amazing to me how ignorant I was to my personal grounds. I never took care of them. Never had them tested. Never did the EPZ, because everyone thought it was stupid. I layed them up, stepped on them with my hooks. Was stupid. And when you do corridor work, you find out how important they are.

[lewy]

Working and testing grounds, they were the best ones I have seen in my life. For twentt years just put that welding cable up and your safe. Always thought that. I was going through grounds and testing them and they were all failing. And these were fairly new grounds. I was cleaning like crazy and testing them again, still failing. I was putting on new ferrule heads, still failing. Then I started running my hand and found all the cuts from the wear. The insulation is rubber and then their is a water tight saran wrap type barrier underneath that. If there is a break in it, the corrosion starts and the welding cable strands break like dry kindling. After you mess with a bunch that failed, you will recognize a bad ground. It will have a cut and be really floppy because the strands broke. Seen a 4/0 ground have enough breakage it would be equivalent to less than a 4. And I found that those with the silver tin replaceable teeth and ferrule fitting tested better than anything else. I was ignorant before and now enlightened.

Got a question for guys who work with breakers at a sub. When you have a "one shot", what are the specifics of when it will lock out . . . Amps, cycles, etc? And if you know that info, do you know if that is a standard or code throughout the US. If you have a bad personal ground, its got to go off like a bomb. I remember we were pulling wire when I was an apprentice, and we were at the reel end. A wind gust came and a layed out ratty wire went sideways. We had everything grounded: the rolling ground, the reel trailer, the operator grate. . . Three grounds driven hard. And the funny thing was the fault current went through our pintle hook of the trailerto the digger and caught the wooden pads on fire. The only good thing was there was only two strands melted on the contact point of the 795 we pulled in.

Its amazing to me how ignorant I was to my personal grounds. I never took care of them. Never had them tested. Never did the EPZ, because everyone thought it was stupid. I layed them up, stepped on them with my hooks. Was stupid. And when you do corridor work, you find out how important they are.
We test our grounds yearly. You mentioned the fault current going through your pintle hook, do you isolate your anchor with a link stick now?

[bobbo]

We had a ground on everything, even truck. I was a amazed at everything happened at a blink of an eye. No time to react. And you know you did the best job you could when you compromised 2 strands of 795. What are those breakers set at? And is it standard throughout the country? I know most our 15 cylcle lockout, a quarter second. . .but is that standard. I know it should have nothing to do with the voltage, but fault current (or the equatuiion within) where that breaker locks out. And what about reclosers for the REA guys? When do those lockout on the pole mounts with the sectionalizers. Does anyone know? I forgot the equation for fault duty, does anyone still remember. Time to break out Kurtz and Shoemaker.

[lewy]

We had a ground on everything, even truck. I was a amazed at everything happened at a blink of an eye. No time to react. And you know you did the best job you could when you compromised 2 strands of 795. What are those breakers set at? And is it standard throughout the country? I know most our 15 cylcle lockout, a quarter second. . .but is that standard. I know it should have nothing to do with the voltage, but fault current (or the equatuiion within) where that breaker locks out. And what about reclosers for the REA guys? When do those lockout on the pole mounts with the sectionalizers. Does anyone know? I forgot the equation for fault duty, does anyone still remember. Time to break out Kurtz and Shoemaker.
You mentioned you had your truck grounded, your truck (anchor) should be isolated with a link stick. Tension stringing is also part of EPZ grounding. You are creating an EPZ at your wire machine, that is why it should be barricaded so that no one on the outside can touch or step in, if you ground your truck and it is not on the mat and barricaded you are setting someone up for touch and step potential hazards, the fault will take all paths not just the easiest that is why we EPZ. You did not mention wether or not you had grounded travellers at your first and last pole. The fault is meant to be cleared at your grounded travellers, not at your gradient mat. You also mentioned you installed 3 ground rods, so I am guessing this was a delta system. Depending on your settings and how far you are from your station with ground rods the station will sometimes just see it as extra load.

[bobbo]

On a tensioner reel with 795 , 15000 ft, 12000 pounds, you dont worry about putting a 2000 pound link stick, or strain carrier, or whatever. And this was 20 years ago.When you pull 50 spans of wire at four to five thousand pounds you are not going to anchor it with a link stick but a thirty thousand pound vehicle with chocks and outriggers. , we worked in a high load, 19.9/34.5 distribution area. With having two strands break on 795 is pretty good grounding. No one hurt. Circuit kicked. Outriggers on fire.But two tiny strands. thats all that matters. I the only thing a link stick would isolate a truck. It wouldnt anchor the tensioner. Right now we will be pulling 10,000 pounds tensio, big wire. The only device I would anchor it with is a big ass truck or a dozer. The hold down blocks are 80 pound skookums. I dont think anyone cares about isolation when you have high tension. The priority is to have the steel and weight to hold the tension and I wouldnt even consider using a 1/4 inch, or 1 inch link stick to put between the truck and the tensioner. I know 3/8 is rated for 1500 pounds, 1/2 rated less than double that, 7/16 maybe 5000. it might work for little wire, but not wire named after birds.

[neil macgregor]

We would have to do this every day and sign a sheet to say thst we done it
Would also be part of a safety audit which we get on a regular basis

[lewy]

On a tensioner reel with 795 , 15000 ft, 12000 pounds, you dont worry about putting a 2000 pound link stick, or strain carrier, or whatever. And this was 20 years ago.When you pull 50 spans of wire at four to five thousand pounds you are not going to anchor it with a link stick but a thirty thousand pound vehicle with chocks and outriggers. , we worked in a high load, 19.9/34.5 distribution area. With having two strands break on 795 is pretty good grounding. No one hurt. Circuit kicked. Outriggers on fire.But two tiny strands. thats all that matters. I the only thing a link stick would isolate a truck. It wouldnt anchor the tensioner. Right now we will be pulling 10,000 pounds tensio, big wire. The only device I would anchor it with is a big ass truck or a dozer. The hold down blocks are 80 pound skookums. I dont think anyone cares about isolation when you have high tension. The priority is to have the steel and weight to hold the tension and I wouldnt even consider using a 1/4 inch, or 1 inch link stick to put between the truck and the tensioner. I know 3/8 is rated for 1500 pounds, 1/2 rated less than double that, 7/16 maybe 5000. it might work for little wire, but not wire named after birds.
Wow that sure is tight, when we tension our neutral it is around 3000 lbs on the dyno. What do you use on distribution to change a live dead end if it is that tight? We have been tension stringing for over 20 years (largest wire we use is 556) and always isolated the truck usually with a link stick, but I have seen guys use a glass rod which could handle the kind of tensions you are talking about. At the end of the day that anchor has to isolated or part of your EPZ, it can not be on its own and simply grounded.

[rob8210]

A few years ago when the practice of using a link stick to isolate a truck anchoring a puller, I would quietly laugh to myself, will they be surprised when the pull tightens up for some reason and the link stick gets pulled apart since they are only rated for 1000 lbs. A doubled up 20 foot nylong sling would be much more sensible. Now I do check my grounds frequently, oiling the duck bills and checking the connections to make sure they are tight. they are supposed to be tested yearly, but that doesn't happen that much with the contractors. I keep trying to convince them to buy their own tester, but I am not winning.

[lewy]

A few years ago when the practice of using a link stick to isolate a truck anchoring a puller, I would quietly laugh to myself, will they be surprised when the pull tightens up for some reason and the link stick gets pulled apart since they are only rated for 1000 lbs. A doubled up 20 foot nylong sling would be much more sensible. Now I do check my grounds frequently, oiling the duck bills and checking the connections to make sure they are tight. they are supposed to be tested yearly, but that doesn't happen that much with the contractors. I keep trying to convince them to buy their own tester, but I am not winning.
Actually they are rated around 3000 lbs, but if you are doing it right your pull back should be just below the puller, that any snag is going to stop the machines before anything breaks.

[T-Man]

Our cables are tested and labeled regularly.


Hastings 7714 Ground Cable Tester Instructional Video

Look for this video, having trouble pasting it here.

[T-Man]

Hastings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1CWH1Prv1E

Thanks Dog

[thrasher]

20 years ago we just cleaned the grounds once a year but didn't actually test them. Then after 1910.269 came out in the 90's we started testing. Found out real quick that all the grounds that had been made without using ferrells weren't worth much. Reworked all grounds using ferrells and rarely have a ground fail now. When we do it's usually the bolt on the ferrell has loosened and allowed grit to get between the cable and the head.

[thrasher]

Every recloser (single phase, three phase, hydraulic, electronic) when it is set for non-reclose operates one time off of the first curve at whatever it's amperage setting maybe. Example a typical 70 amp V4L cooper hydraulic recloser will trip following an "A" time-current curve at somewhere above 140 amps plus clear time. On the other hand a 3 phase station recloser is more likely set at 400-560 amps trip using an "R" curve plus clear time. So there are no "national standards" on what currents will be seen for what length of time on any one's system. Companies have had to do the calculations in the last few years to determine minimum Arc Flash Protection Standards. So most commonly the company figures the highest fault current with the slowest curve and longest clear time used by the company. This sets your ARC flash rating.
A few companies are beginning to look at using an alternate faster curve when the recloser/breaker is set on one shot for men working on the line but at this time I don't know anyone who has implemented such a system.

[thrasher]

Every recloser (single phase, three phase, hydraulic, electronic) when it is set for non-reclose operates one time off of the first curve at whatever it's amperage setting maybe. Example a typical 70 amp V4L cooper hydraulic recloser will trip following an "A" time-current curve at somewhere above 140 amps plus clear time. On the other hand a 3 phase station recloser is more likely set at 400-560 amps trip using an "R" curve plus clear time. So there are no "national standards" on what currents will be seen for what length of time on any one's system. Companies have had to do the calculations in the last few years to determine minimum Arc Flash Protection Standards. So most commonly the company figures the highest fault current with the slowest curve and longest clear time used by the company. This sets your ARC flash rating.
A few companies are beginning to look at using an alternate faster curve when the recloser/breaker is set on one shot for men working on the line but at this time I don't know anyone who has implemented such a system.

[duckhunter]

We inspect and test at least yearly. We have a Hi-Line tester, when you ust the tester, you can tell where a bad connection is by the heat. After running the test, just work you bare hand along the ground.

[CPOPE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4yWyvGwE8g&list=UUF_I6GBflvedlKSktBj-crw&index=3

[reppy007]

Maybe things have changed.I presume they test them here now....Now I can remember too many times where grounds were thrown here and there....collecting dirt and corrosion in those metal baskets on two man trucks/squirt booms.....I know others havent seen that happen...right?

[bobbo]

I remember we had a dude that we had to use grounds for the size of fault duty current, it was some formula and there was one substation in california that would have 200000000 fault current amps on it. Calculated by load of the sub over volts, and we had to hang 4/0 grounds on number 6 and 8. It was so ignorant. You put the grounds on and they were so overweight. And there isnt a clamp manufactured for 6 or 8. We just put the on for show in case "a supervisor drove by", all loose just up for show. For 560 amps, wouldnt a 4/0 or 2/0 just be a fuse?

[bobbo]

When the 500 circuit were sizzling with high load, the induction field was so high you got burned touching everything. We had to use ground gloves and ground boots. Then the grounds had a monitor connected to the ground rod and it would send an alarm if induction was out of control. I think Bonneville had that monitor. And National Transmission. Does anybody know of the manufacturer or what its called? When the monitor went off, either you had to install more grounds or stop work which of course will never happen. If people knew of it, I think it would be really helpful when working big corridors, like Coullee, Hoover, Bessy. . . And etc. I am pretty sure Bonneville used it all the time. Bren what do you guys use in the UK when you got those corridors with EHV circuits so tight on transmission sub exit?

[HIVOLTS]

Our company has a different setting for hot line tags. You can open the "R" switch and remove reclosing or get a "Hot Line Tag" which removes reclosing and sets the instantaneous tripping to a lower than normal value making it more sensitive and quicker to trip while crews are working on the line.