How does one part of the country think different than another part?

[bobbo]

You go to the West Coast, Fl, Tx, they issue class O for secondary and they have secondary blankets. And all the gloves and blankets say 1000 v and below. Then you go to another state and they only use primary gloves for even phone. And they all say, if we get issued classOs for secondary somebody will use them for primary. Now if you are mandated to take an OSHA 10 and 20 class to go to work, and have a letter of travel with your apprenticeship dates, and all your voltage experience and can read do not use for 1000v or above that are stamped on secondary, and you are working mostly with dead secondary anyways. . .Why do you have to wear primaries and sleeves for dead secondary. Why do you have to wear gloves and sleeves for everything for tested and grounded circuits. And why do they put minimum approach stickers on your hardhats if you are in gloves and sleeves all day anways? What kind of fool would wear secondaries for primary ? I have yet to hear or see somebody do it? And that,is practice,in most of the country. As far as rubber, I dont think 20 kv line hose on a number 8 copper neutral open wire is such a safe practice, why dont they issue they issue velcro secondary rubber for service taps? Isnt that a safer way of doing things? Taught use the right tool for the job. You go to the stick states, they use their bare hands to have maximum dexterity and feel any breakdown. Then you go to some of these companies that never sticked and you have to wear gloves and sleeves to stick. Now if a FCR stick has 100000 v protection for every foot, what good are the gloves anyway but a dexterity hindrance that will cause you to drop a tail. Dont understand. Enlighten me on why you need rubber sleeves and gloves for everything you do? And why does someone thinks that is safer in all situations, when most of the country thinks its not. what is the total philosophy behind it. Why is it a terminating offense? Can somebody who loves these rules defend it? Have yet to see anyone post anything that defends it? Is it the belief that you cant trust anyone, no one can read, and everyone is stupid philosophy? Please tell me why? Every morning we go through every hazard every day and we know how to deal with it. And the answer is not rubber all the time because I work with really good hands.

[reppy007]

All I can say is that its like putting on a condom......cover everything reppy......but.....but....but.......it stays soft.....what good will it do (if )I can even put it on.........We just like seeing that everything is covered reppy....You'll get used to it!

[Pootnaigle]

Umm those rules a9nt for protecten linemen theys for protectin the company that made em in case of a mishap

[T-Man]

Umm those rules a9nt for protecten linemen theys for protectin the company that made em in case of a mishap

I agree with Poot.

They say safety rules are written in blood. Usually they get made AFTER someone was hurt.

[bobbo]

The companies that have the ground to ground rule are not safer than most of the country, not at all. If you look at any empirical evidence actual numbers, its bull****. Dont use that blood argument I have heard it, its bull****. If you get killed with triplex, you had no reason to get a ticket or become a journeyman lineman. Look we have 20 year window where we didnt get anyone in the industry but nephews or sons of neer do well lineman. There is three or four languages spoken im my yard because no one knows how to do the work anymore. We shake alot of guys posing as lineman. We have to get men from other countries to do this work now. The sad thing is they are more professional, faster and are knowledgeable. Sad, very sad. Blood argument: I remember this goofy story that everyone passes in the country. Lineman got a call from his cell phone from his terminal father in the bucket moving phases. He was so distraught he touched a phase and died out of a bucket. And his poor terminal father heard his son die. Now I heard this story from five different people from five different locals, and saying this guy was a memeber of their local. Thats a bull**** story, or somebody is taking credit for a guy using a cellphone in a bucket and thats stupid too. The linevine is full of bull**** and if you believe it you are the fool.

[rob8210]

I have to agree with Poot, Old Linedog and T-man. The ground to ground and lock to lock rule is strictly to cover the companies and the safety organizations that dreamed it up. It is not a very practical way for a trained and skilled lineman to work. All they do is dumb down the trade to the level of competance of the few that should not be anywhere near high voltage. Now cell phones should not be in a bucket, ever. I had a rule when I ran a crew that cell phones stayed in the guys lunch box until lunch, then back in after lunch. The kind of work we do demands your full attention, mistakes are deadly!

[Orgnizdlbr]

Not much to say because you guys hit the nail on the head. All the BS safety rules at the IOU I'm at are to protect the company from liability and put the onus on the worker should something happen. That is to say on a normal day, but when the SHTF, it's anything goes in their mind and then we hold their feet to fire with the rules. They can't have it both ways.

[Brotherskeeper]

I work for a company that still gloves 7200 off hooks. There not too many things like knowing you got something in your hand that is just looking for a way to kill you. The lock to lock, basket to basket is the dumbest rule ever!!! That rule is in effect because companys hire people they know aint got a clue of line work and try to enforce their rules to somehow "smart" them up to understand line saftey. insted of teaching those that dont understand or having a progress program.

[bobbo]

There is a quarter of the country and I dont know in Canada who have these rules. And not one can defend them. Not one company man. Not one person who can justify wearing rubber gloves and sleeves on a FCR stick on 2400 volts. Or you have to wear primary gloves and sleeves on secondary. No class Os issuance or secondary blankets because "you might be confused and use them for Primary", because all lineman are stupid. Look I work for a company who has none of those rules and guess what we have that gay injury accident insurance multiplier better than anyone else. Why? We have good experienced men and thats it. Not rules. Come on company men justify yourself bring it on. The bucksqueeze Is another issue, its highly violatile like the MIDDLE EAST. There is not one management type or some guy from these companies who love being wrapped in rubber?

[Orgnizdlbr]

Bobbo, bean counters and lawyers run the companies, not people who know line work. The people who run the companies could care less what you and I think or know.......

[T-Man]

Bobbo, bean counters and lawyers run the companies, not people who know line work. The people who run the companies could care less what you and I think or know.......

You hit that nail on the head Org.

[splinter]

Labor is right on.

[reppy007]

Yea....they can care a less.........only ones that care are the lineman themselves,its hard seeing the stupidity that the bean-counters have created....the way it has effected all of us sooner or later.....look around....what do you usually see????????.....Yes men.....dont have to know linework,when you say yes to everything thats told to you.....I knew one foreman....I baited him in front of the supervisor one day......I told him that I knew something that he didnt know.......he asked.........reppy what do you know?......I told him that I knew he was a puppet on a string,,but didnt know it.....looked at the supervisor and said that he was pulling the foremans strings........what did he say..........Nothing.....:D

[duckhunter]

Bobbo, bean counters and lawyers run the companies, not people who know line work. The people who run the companies could care less what you and I think or know.......

IF that is so, how doesd OSHA get away with associating the IBEW with 1910.269?

[Orgnizdlbr]

IF that is so, how doesd OSHA get away with associating the IBEW with 1910.269?


I'm sure you meant consulting the the IBEW, if you're going to tell me that OSHA doesn't consult employers and other industry entities regarding 191.269 in the same manner that it consults the IBEW ill tell you to do some investigating......

[Orgnizdlbr]

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9868

[US & CA Tramp]

What the heck is 191.269???

OSHA "Safety speak"?

1910.269 are the OSHA regulations for Distribution, Transmission, & Generation that apply to utilities, Co-ops and the like.

1926. subpart V is basically the mirror image of 1920.269 except for construction.

If you can read them and understand them all then we can call you a lawyer!

[reppy007]

1910.269 are the OSHA regulations for Distribution, Transmission, & Generation that apply to utilities, Co-ops and the like.

1926. subpart V is basically the mirror image of 1920.269 except for construction.

If you can read them and understand them all then we can call you a lawyer!

Thanks but no-thanks....I wont try to understand......The reason I wont is cause what I know is preventable or non-preventable is the same as you know them.....Them lawyers will make a preventable non-preventable and a non-preventable a preventable.....then they will go into the section this or that article this or that......Hell they couldn't even put a swingset together.....not that I can either.....too many instructions that seem backwards.

[bobbo]

No one shall be foreman without 5 years as journeyman lineman! At least every person who have I known who was killed could have been saved. A man without ten years experience couldnt tell you what could go wrong, he can see more hazards than a man who just topped out. Also the properties with all the gay rules that make no sense are the properties who operate til failure. The ones with alot politics, nepotism,.arrogance, and the CEO who gets the big fat check when their whole property is a hazard. The ones where you put brand new hardware on a seventy year old pole. Where all the bolts are so decayed you can snap them in half. Wood pin arms. Poles leaning all over the place because they dont guy or key properly. Those are the properties with the ****head rules.

[bobbo]

Ohms of protection, current leakage? Continual climbing certifications for qualified climbers, get rid of that bucksqueeze? Put poles in work yards and have people show you what they can do. I dont know throw anything out there that would better the situation ! Today its 97 degrees, and I am so glad I dont have to wear glove and sleeves all day anymore. Feel sorry for those guys who have those rules. Bad for them they have to wear them when the lines dumped and grounded!

[LinemanLocal2]

I have to agree with you guys that its a company thing. Take Asplundh for example. They have the ground to ground rule, in the bucket or climbing the pole. How may of you have ever climbed a ******* pole with gloves and sleeves on, rubber boots, and hook covers. That's a safety hazard in itself. Here's the silly part. We were working side by side with these guys on storm and were in the air with our common sense and when we hit the primary zone we rubber up. When we leave primary zone we take that hot crap off. Those poor guys were killing over from heat exhaustion.

[bobbo]

No one will work for them except white tickets, canadians, and no. 271 on book 2 when there are no calls. There rules cause more accidents because tbey will get the bottom. Though the cannucks are good lineman.

[bobbo]

Where is the evidence? Defend these rules? There has to be one person who believes them and loves them if they are used by quite a bit of the country? There safety multlipliersrs are they better?

[T-Man]

Ground to ground rules are in place so when the foreman pulls up on the job he can tell in an instant if your breaking the rules or not. if the rule was put em on in a work zone or a certain distance from a work zone there are foreman who couldn't tell if you were working safely or not.

Rules always fit the lowest common denominator ( the dumbest kid on the block) then we all have to abide by them. Keeping your workmates honest and help them be smarter on the job, makes for less of these dumbed down rules. The second someone bones up something and gets hurt we all pay with a new rule.

[US & CA Tramp]

Ground to ground rules are in place so when the foreman pulls up on the job he can tell in an instant if your breaking the rules or not. if the rule was put em on in a work zone or a certain distance from a work zone there are foreman who couldn't tell if you were working safely or not.

Rules always fit the lowest common denominator ( the dumbest kid on the block) then we all have to abide by them. Keeping your workmates honest and help them be smarter on the job, makes for less of these dumbed down rules. The second someone bones up something and gets hurt we all pay with a new rule.

I agree T-Man. In my experience ground to ground & lock to lock rules are usually implemented by companies that don't like to keep refresher training up for their lineman, or companies that like to say "We did everything possible to keep them safe", after an accident happens.

Don't get me started on lawyers again!

[urban1095]

Sounds like some companies want product testers instead of lineman.
They spend all their time and effort on reinventing the wheel instead of requiring competence in employees.

As long as you have all your paperwork turned in and your time accounted for in the correct columns they f-ing
Cream pants!

[bobbo]

Give me one guy who can explain why he would put a man in sleeves, gloves, heavy fr jeans and henly shirt for eight to twelve hours and justify it. Only 85 today. Forgot the guys who think this up are in air conditioning!

[rob8210]

I worked one summer for a company in Connecticut that was a subsidiary of Asplundh , what a rinky dink outfit. Fought with them a number of times over the stupid gloves and sleeves rule - especially when it was 95 degrees. It got really stupid when we went south on a hurricane and they still insisted on gloves and sleeves even with multiple sets of grounds and conductor on the ground. The owners even tried to tell us they were lineman, but they couldn't understand what we were doing . By the way , I am Canadian. We don't use sleeves here at all , and most fellas have no clue what they are, we tend to train our people to work smart , safe , and keep those dang elbows in. A fella shouldn't be made a foreman until he has at least 10 years on. I was one for a couple of years with a crew of young fellas. They couldn't understand why I wouldn't let them do some things their way. One fella wanted to re-locate a 1 phase 90 degree corner by hand live, and wouldn't try to understand my explanation. Just 1 of many examples of the things I had to deal with and why I am not a foreman now.

[bobbo]

How many days guys has the post been up? Anybody for Asplundh, Grid, Nstar give a crack, rebuttal. The blood argument will come up, but it doesnt work when most of the country used approach rules and less accidents. Take Alaska, two electrical contact accidents in thirty years and they dont wear gloves or even hardhats most times. Safest state in the union, 14.4/ 25 is the usual voltage. all mom and pops, no big companies and they treat their people like family. No bean counters. Well built systems. So give me a rebuttal. Waiting.

[bobbo]

Stick trailer.

[rob8210]

I think I would rather work in Alaska

[US & CA Tramp]

How many days guys has the post been up? Anybody for Asplundh, Grid, Nstar give a crack, rebuttal. The blood argument will come up, but it doesnt work when most of the country used approach rules and less accidents. Take Alaska, two electrical contact accidents in thirty years and they dont wear gloves or even hardhats most times. Safest state in the union, 14.4/ 25 is the usual voltage. all mom and pops, no big companies and they treat their people like family. No bean counters. Well built systems. So give me a rebuttal. Waiting.

This may not be what you want to hear, but as the minimum regulations which is OSHA there are several ways around sleeves. That being said a company can always make their policies and rules more stringent. That doesn't necessarily make it right. I grew up in the trade using both sticks and gloves and they both have their advantages. Personally I would rather use cover up than wearing sleeves. As far as FR clothing, an assessment should be performed first, you may not even have to wear FR in all circumstances according to OSHA, it all depends on what you find in your work place. Again your employer can always make their rules more stringent.

Just my opinion, but accidents happen when individuals become complacent, and have a brain fart, and then a rule is made to cover the companies arss. Then comes the written in blood argument.

[bobbo]

I noticed with the mom and pops, they keep their personnel a long time. And then the turnstile yards have guys coming in and out- thats where the accidents come from. The higher the rate, the gold rush to make 100 grand by june. Thats where the accidents are. When I came up, I have seen distribution crews together for 6 to 9 years. And transmission crews longer than that. Now its a turnstile everywhere, so maybe thats the reason for lock to lock bs. Been doing this awhile and I notice when you have to jerry rig to do stuff thats when things go wrong. Another thing is attention to detail and thats why supervision should be experienced. I have made mistakes but never made the mistake twice. Instead of more rules more training. The utilities have more knowledge, but they will never survive the pace of construction. I had a mix of people wbo trained me, retired utility hands, good sharp construction hands. Had to read the amp meter before putting on bypasses. Now they are in boxes never opened. I make a lot of decisions with an ampmeter, and we have journeyman lineman that dont know what the symbols mean or the wire size, or how much load should be on a can. It baffles me. The thoughtful part of this trade is waning. And I think it has to do with dinosaurs being pushed out so quick that never got to teach the generation that took over.

[rob8210]

You sure are right there Bobbo, they are taking the thoughtfulness out of the trade. At the same time some of the younger ones don't want to learn some of the tricks of the trade, for example, I had a guy doing a transformer pole changeout. We had to phase-in the new can. I suggested to mark the matching legs with phase tape. He would not do it, guess what? He crossed the legs and caused an outage, just because he would not listen to an older guy. And yeah that ammeter is one handy tool, like you I use it too.

[bobbo]

When I topped out I was a functional lineman. After 5 years I was a decent good hand. After ten years, I could candy cane, pencil and put a pole anywhere you want. After 15 years, people are saying you cant do that, its impossible and you do it without incident. Then after you get it done they recite something from some book that is not allowed. At one yard, I was told I had to use a backyard machine for all sets. I had to rip fences down to set a pole. Umm I am not a carpenter. I could have done it with two blocks and a piece of rope and alot less bs. Set a 400 or 500 poles in my lifetime with blocks. But when your management is 30 something, your foremen are twenty something and they have never worked a backlot pole without that dumb machine it sucks. A capstan was not allowed. "Someone got killed using a capstan". Yeahh, capstans are dangerous if you have no clue how to use them! Yeah setting with blocks is very dangerous if you dont know what you are doing! I still get challenged by younger lineman who think they know everything. And I quit teaching or showing people how to do something because they have it all figured out, they are arrogant with no reason. Now I am just a lineman with a very good company, with excellent experienced management and I am happy. Now its funny. Because I watch young journeyman come here thinking they are hot sh#t with the same attitudes I hate and they last about a week. Because their structures are uvly and half ass. They get there checks and they blame everyone else but themselves. Its getting old.

[bobbo]

Anyone know how that insurance thing works? We are at a gazillion hours without incident and supposedly we can get any contract we want. I dont know one thing about that part of our industry. Anyone GF or management ego can shed some light on this. Right now it drives the industry and I dont understand it. It has to do with risk assessment , formulas and etc. I think the stupid rules come from this. There thinking if you wear rubber 100% of the time then that number goes down. But its funny, the companies that just observe approach have the better numbers. Because the better hands go to companies with better work rules. Its cool there isnt one chock in my yard and I only wear my gloves and sleeves when they are necessary. And this has been the toughest work I have had in a long time. And I really think are success is the experience of our management. Because they all turned wrenches for a long time before they got their positions. I think our success has a lot more to do with job knowledge than a rule book.

[bobbo]

I remember I was running a digger and some pick up fool came to me and said I had to wearFR. What is the arc potential when you are fifty feet from the primary? He pulled out a book recited an FR rule. The line is dead and grounded and I am setting with nothing energized. This same guy said I needed chockblocks when my axles were buried. Its getting ridiculous.

[rob8210]

Thats the big problem nowadays, there are lots of people that know the rules, right to the letter, but do not have the first bit of common sense. Just last fall I had a safety man tell me I had to wear rubber gloves on a dead and grounded line deadend , where I was building a new feeder riser. His reason was there was a 115kv line about 100 hundred feet away. Another time we were working a storm where the line was on the ground, we had grounds at the source and 5 sets of point of work grounds installed, the foreman yelled at us to get our gloves and sleeves on. Claimed he took the course on point of work grounding 3 times, I responded he must have failed, every time. No common sense left in this trade.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm theys plenty pf common cents in the trade just none in saftey or management

[Trouble1]

I work for one of the companies you mentioned that have too many safety rules. You're right, the rules are crazy and the lineman are terrible for the most part. Who really cares though? Work gets done, nobody gets hurt, and everybody makes money.

You can say what you want about lineman for any of the companies you mentioned, but a lot of the lineman that came up to help during storms were borderline brain dead. I worked with a few companies that I thought were incredible and some that I thought were going to die at any moment.

I used to sit around and complain about how everyone else doesn't try hard to learn, but it's not worth getting worked up about because it's never going to change.

Around here most people are forced to take training. Guys build things that are completely wrong and it's the trouble men's job to follow them and fix it.

I wish I could post the safety manual because it would get a lot of laughs. There's a whole page devoted to how to use a screwdriver... I'm not kidding.

Bottom line is like I said before, you're right, but who cares aside from the guys that have to fix all the crappy work.

[bobbo]

To have knowledge, professionalism and integrity. Ir shouldnt be forced on us by anyone else union or management. To be treated like children because a few stupid people is wrong. Dont make everyone suffer for stupid. Iy might work in Basic traing or boot camp, but not in the world.

[bobbo]

To have knowledge, professionalism and integrity. Ir shouldnt be forced on us by anyone else union or management. To be treated like children because a few stupid people is wrong. Dont make everyone suffer for stupid. Iy might work in Basic traing or boot camp, but not in the real world. Thats not America.

[splinter]

bobbo, you are making way to much sense for a lineman.:)

[bobbo]

This may not be what you want to hear, but as the minimum regulations which is OSHA there are several ways around sleeves. That being said a company can always make their policies and rules more stringent. That doesn't necessarily make it right. I grew up in the trade using both sticks and gloves and they both have their advantages. Personally I would rather use cover up than wearing sleeves. As far as FR clothing, an assessment should be performed first, you may not even have to wear FR in all circumstances according to OSHA, it all depends on what you find in your work place. Again your employer can always make their rules more stringent.

Just my opinion, but accidents happen when individuals become complacent, and have a brain fart, and then a rule is made to cover the companies arss. Then comes the written in blood argument.

My wife knows not to call. She has my gfs number if there is an emergency. Seen guys in the air in the bucket.having arguments with their crack addled girlfriends or whomever. Get the cell phones off the jobs, except for foreman and utility troubleman where its essential. Get company radios in all the trucks with channels. And cell phones only can be used during lunch. And maybe get less "complacency".

[rob8210]

Cell phones have no place on the job, especially in the air. I have watched fellas stop what they are doing just to answer the dang phone. 9 times out of 10 they forget where they are and what they are doing. The foreman has a phone as a necessity. Give the wife or girlfriend the number incase of an emergency. I ended up telling my crew to leave their phones in their lunch box, and to check it at lunch, we had too many brain farts. Not just our industry , buy any kind of construction job as well , cell phones are a real problem.

[bobbo]

I think Quantra will probably own the whole market eventually. They own so many companies advertising.Well they had two pictures in there. One was a PSEG contractor fully loaded, class 2s and sleeves on a pole with duplex and a light and nothing else. Then there was an IBEW ad," knowledge. . .ability", with his leathers three foot under 34.5 potheads working on some California under arm bus. Its a 100 degrees out, enjoy those sleeves! I am staying highline and URD. And only working distribution where they have common sense.

[bobbo]

Lets say you are on a tap, the primary is dead and grounded. Now some one puts a generator on a backside of a service. The generator is going to smoke and not start. If you got dead ground on your primary top side coil, how are you gonna get backfeed? I have seen all three phases on the ground and the feed side grounded and I was looking for bad spots total darkness on the wire, these guys were.having a cow when I wasnt wearing rubber gloves, they were screaming "backfeed", ummm how is that possible? Was working delta primaryall sources grounded and I was transferring open wire, cans were not looped, and I had four guys on the ground screaming "Oh my god he opened up a neutral!" I have never seen this trade as bad as it is right now. Some of these guys need to go somewhere else and just learn from other people, older people. Yeah old guys arent cool. They just show up on time care about what they are doing. They dont have 20 inch lift kits with a "line god" "hooking aint easy" "fireman need heroes" embossed on their back window and they dont own Harleys that they ride 50 miles a year. They arent cool, knowledge isnt cool. Being a ****head, folding up at 2, knowing nothing, thinking working on de energized lines is the only way to work, bucket baby, ass kissing, just yell at apprentices all day dont show or teach because they cant, put the apprentices and scatterbrain them to death with stupid **** while the journeyman on the ground doing nothing is cool. Its the new linework. I think it sucks!

[rob8210]

Very well said , Bobbo, and the worst part is it is all true. Knowledge of the work doesn't mean anything to the new breed, who probably got their job because they know the boss, not because they know the work. It doesn't help that companies are hiring fellas to be safety men that know even less , but get all the power to make the rules. I was working on a double circuit dead end pole , dead and grounded, building a new riser. The safety man told me I had to ground my truck and wear rubber gloves because there was a 115kv transmission line 150' away! He would not give me an explaination of his reasoning either. The fellas from that company told me the management will not question him either. I agree the young crowd are more interested in showing people they are a lineman than being one. As far as i am concerned I work away and do my job, if there is a young guy that wants to learn, I will show him, but I will not go out of my way for just anyone any more, it simply is not appreciated any more. I learned a lot when I ran a crew, about the new breed of lineman, and ,truth is , I have no interest in looking after a bunch of kids anymore . When I did try to correct them on their methods, they would just whine and run to the supervisor , who happened to be their buddy.

[thrasher]

I agree the new linemen are different from the old. However in a small organization you can still teach them or run them off as the case requires. One thing you said though I have to dispute. During Hurricane Floyd rstoration and again during Hurricane Isabel we found generators plugged into the dryer outlet with a double male plug with the primary energized at about 3-4KV on a 7200 system. We found these before we put the grounds on when we had isolated and tested the line so I don't know what would have happened with a ground but in one case it was a single phase line with both the phase and neutral laying in a swamp under about twelve inches of muddy water, yet this did not trip the generator. (In fact when the crew found that generator the homeowner had the gall (stupidity) to complain that he could only get about 80 volts out of the generator. So a home generator will feed a short on the primary side and not trip.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmm once saw a feller ground some 69 feeding a substATION FOR A WATERPLANT.... iT SMOTH BURNT UP THAT GENERATOR N DRAWED a PURDY GOOD ARC WHEN HE SLAPPED THAT GROUND ON

[reppy007]

Ummmm once saw a feller ground some 69 feeding a substATION FOR A WATERPLANT.... iT SMOTH BURNT UP THAT GENERATOR N DRAWED a PURDY GOOD ARC WHEN HE SLAPPED THAT GROUND ON

Just wondering ...what kind of condition were the grounds after he done that?....Im sure his underware blew a hole in them:D

[Old Line Dog]

Ummmm once saw a feller ground some 69 feeding a substATION FOR A WATERPLANT.... iT SMOTH BURNT UP THAT GENERATOR N DRAWED a PURDY GOOD ARC WHEN HE SLAPPED THAT GROUND ON

Sometimes your siht is just incomprehensible poot.:rolleyes:

I had a crew, that was told the "69 KV line was switched out" and they could install grounds..

Dispatch Mistake....

The line was still Hot....4/0 Grounds...thank God. The 4/0 copper line blew with an incredible explosion and came down, tripping the whole 69 line. Thank god, the guy that was installing the grounds, only had serious flash burns to his eyes. When you're installing grounds, Right before you slam that ground down on the phase....bow your head.

[bobbo]

I always test before I put grounds on. I have smoked al lot of generators with ******* hook ups. I have seen alot of people do alot of things short the secondaries, pull the leads out. But I love when those.generators.smoke and choke out. I like when you have power companies lets you pull meters. When power companies give you seals usually most times they have their **** together. When you can pull meters you can make things a lot safer. But I would be scared to suggest that now adays because the power .companies will put you in that footlocker bombsuit for.a.service on a outhouse. True story: I had a young foreman. We had to move phases across a road there was a bend in the road , taking out hard angle to a double dead end make it more in line. To lay the wire down we had to take out all sources of backfeed, which was 16 climbs to open all the switches to the cans. I go hers an idea pull the meters. Cant do that, not aloud. So I moved wire 150 foot both ways 3 phase span energized over a road bypassed where I cut over the width of the road. Why? Because a simple half hour job.if I could lay the wire down would take 2 days, over 32 climbs, a bunch of grounds that we didnt have. If we were aloud to pull meters we wouldnt have none of it. I even asked the inspector, " we cant do that." It was nuts. You had to see the eyes on all the drivers when I moved it, bypass hanging above the road, made a taut line line to rail across. The only reason it was.easy because I had the best.groundman in all the world.

[bobbo]

[QUOTE=thrasher;138347]I agree the new linemen are different from the old. However in a small organization you can still teach them or run them off as the case requires. One thing you said though I have to dispute. During Hurricane Floyd rstoration and again during Hurricane Isabel we found generators plugged into the dryer outlet with a double male plug with the primary energized at about 3-4KV on a 7200 system. We found these before we put the grounds on when we had isolated and tested the lWheine so I don't know what would have happened with a ground but in one case it was a single phase line with both the phase and neutral laying in a swamp under about twelve inches of muddy water, yet this did not trip the generator. (In fact when the crew found that generator the homeowner had the gall (stupidity) to complain that he could only get about 80 volts out of the generator. So a home generator will feed a short on the primary side and not trip.[/QUOTE

what would it tested if the primary was grounded. Was the cutout open? Didnt the coil on the generator burn up?. I would ask the owner to take off his generator. 99% do. Or take out the meter unless it was locked, only a couple times, no one home,pitbull, no option. Put the grounds on with an open cutout, then close that thing. Hear that thing choke out and short is great. Sounds like a lawnmower hitting a dirt pile. Then a puff of smoke. Its like popping your first big zit in your life. kinda cool.

[bobbo]

A lot of these people in the hills had generators, no isolation just gerry rigged. The practice they did was bond the middle of a good pair of jumpercables in the middle. Test with the seconday meter. Put one clamp on the ground others on the three bushing clamps. But one can maybe fed two houses at the most taps off the feed. And it worked. Just common sense guys not officialese subparagraph quoting dudes. They just knew how to do the work and did things as simple as possible. What was nice is your eliminating the backfeed and keeping it simple. I mentioned this to someone how they did it, and I got you must have manufactured grounds, put on by a gripall and must use a primary meter. In my head, dude its just a two span tap of number 4 with a can dude with pulled cutouts. We did all the officialese subparagraph way to install one automatic on a piece of number 4. Had eight guys taking a half day, what 2 did in 20 minutes fifteen to twenty years ago.

[Trouble1]

Sometimes your siht is just incomprehensible poot.:rolleyes:

I had a crew, that was told the "69 KV line was switched out" and they could install grounds..

Dispatch Mistake....

The line was still Hot....4/0 Grounds...thank God. The 4/0 copper line blew with an incredible explosion and came down, tripping the whole 69 line. Thank god, the guy that was installing the grounds, only had serious flash burns to his eyes. When you're installing grounds, Right before you slam that ground down on the phase....bow your head.

Or you could test... blowing it up does make for a better story though:D We had some guys here try to ground 115kv without testing.. same outcome as yours.

On the backfeed subject; Even if a phase is grounded, current still has to go to ground to trip the generator even if it is only for the tiniest of a fraction of a second. What if you're standing next to a dead a grounded phase when the generator comes on? You are still exposed to step potential for a split second. Grounds increase your protection obviously but they don't make you invincible from back feed unless you're in an EZP which most places don't do on distribution.

[bobbo]

If the generator is outfitted with GFCIs it would trip there. If it was a.hard.hook up all the.way to the panel, it should isolate at the panel. If the generator was hooked to the top side of the meter, which would be a billionth possibility and incredibly stupid for someone to do but plausible. Coils on the generator will be battling coils on the can, and one of the two will heat up like a toaster oven and open eventually. I kind of like how that co op did it. Isolate ,test ground the primary and test, ground the secondary off the can. If the leads werent a big dog pile of squeeze ons and bull**** just pull the leads off bushings. And there is no prescribed way of dealing every possible.circumstance. What is visible, what.is.accessible, what do you hear,see, touch determines your.course of action not a rulebook.written by a person who is not there.I really do think the small utility co op guys who.dont have budget and equipment, think of simple ways to do things.