Pet Peeves with URD? Suggestions to improve?

[URDesignerCub]

What would be your "pet peeves" and suggestions for improving URD design and construction?

I'm starting in URD design for a Utility Contractor. I was ex-mil Narrowback (Interior Electrician) a few yrs (when I was young), and I carried a set of tools long enough to know t/ sometimes the Engineering thinking is just enough to make me dangerous.

So, what's YOUR biggest URD improvement you'd like to see, common mistakes corrected, and ways to make your life easier and safer with URD and related dip/riser construction? I'm learning, and I want to do this RIGHT (with the line crews and troublemen in mind)! Also any links to your favorite URD "cub"-type resources are welcome too!

And I would like to thank you for allowing me onto your forum, and I hope I can learn somethings that will help make lives easier and safer, and earn my keep.

[Rob]

I think you may find that trouble shooting these area's had presented problems in the past. Outages of longer durations. With the newer fault locating equipment available it has become much easier.

On the design end, one of the biggest pet peeves I can think of was anything more than a 1 pot (transformer) radial. During the design phase every attempt should be made to create a loop, even if you are using the same phase. Make sense?

Hope that helps you.

Something else you may want to consider. On consumer owned cable projects have the electrician install a CTA ( Cable tap assembly) at the base of the pole. Must Utilities take ownership of the cable on the pole.

Good Luck URD

[Pootnaigle]

uMM THERE NEEDSTO BE APECKING ORDER for puttin it in, shallow stuff likecatvn phone lines that dont haFTa be deep should be the lAST INSTALLED. would save a ton of locates n unnecessary trying to avoid cutting lines.

[lewy]

There is no reason when building new U.G. for the need to be operating live elbows, all transformers and switch gear come with switches that you can operate before moving anything, along with capacitive test points for testing for potential as well as phasing. Also there should be clear easy to understand nomenclature on both primary and secondary. And all cables should be in duct as much as possible. FCIs should also be part of the system.

[linemanfrog]

Whenever at all possible URD should be loop feeds and on the same phase and same circuit. What is the purpose of having a loop feed that you cannot tie. Also do not put both ends of the loop on the same pole as it makes pole changeouts a real pain and more time consuming. Riser poles should be riser poles only when possible. You should try to refrain from having a 3 phase riser on the same pole as a OH transformer or other pole mounted equipment. Ensure there is an adequate labeling and marking system, number transformers sequentiually. Mark elbows with the station number they are going to (if you are at station 4 then one elbow would be marked 3 and one marked 5). Use fault indicators with the fiber optic eyes so the crews do not have to open the tx to see if the indicator is flashing. Avoid "T" splices and elbow fuses at all costs. Install everything in conduit, it is much quicker to yank bad cable out and replace with new cable than to locate, dig up, and repair a faulted cable.

DO NOT INSTALL SUBMERSIBLE SWITCHES IN MANHOLES, HELL FOR THAT MATTER DO NOT INSTALL MANHOLES AT ALL UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NEEDED AND DANG SURE DO NOT LOCATE MANHOLES IN THE STREET, IN STREET SIDE PARKING AREAS, OR IN AREAS THAT LIKELY TO BECOME EITHER.

Always provide a means for grounding cables when using 600/900 amp connections. These should be easy to use and not require disassembly prior to testing and grounded.

LABEL LABEL LABEL VERIFY VERIFY VERIFY everything, then triple check those labels. In 25 years the installers will not be any where to be found and someone will be troubleshooting, switching, replacing things and the only things they will have to go by is the labeling used during installation.

Good luck, every system is different. Find the linemen working on the systems you will be designing and ask them what they want to see and how you can make their work easier, safer, and then make the system work for them.

[lewy]

Whenever at all possible URD should be loop feeds and on the same phase and same circuit. What is the purpose of having a loop feed that you cannot tie. Also do not put both ends of the loop on the same pole as it makes pole changeouts a real pain and more time consuming. Riser poles should be riser poles only when possible. You should try to refrain from having a 3 phase riser on the same pole as a OH transformer or other pole mounted equipment. Ensure there is an adequate labeling and marking system, number transformers sequentiually. Mark elbows with the station number they are going to (if you are at station 4 then one elbow would be marked 3 and one marked 5). Use fault indicators with the fiber optic eyes so the crews do not have to open the tx to see if the indicator is flashing. Avoid "T" splices and elbow fuses at all costs. Install everything in conduit, it is much quicker to yank bad cable out and replace with new cable than to locate, dig up, and repair a faulted cable.

DO NOT INSTALL SUBMERSIBLE SWITCHES IN MANHOLES, HELL FOR THAT MATTER DO NOT INSTALL MANHOLES AT ALL UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NEEDED AND DANG SURE DO NOT LOCATE MANHOLES IN THE STREET, IN STREET SIDE PARKING AREAS, OR IN AREAS THAT LIKELY TO BECOME EITHER.

Always provide a means for grounding cables when using 600/900 amp connections. These should be easy to use and not require disassembly prior to testing and grounded.

LABEL LABEL LABEL VERIFY VERIFY VERIFY everything, then triple check those labels. In 25 years the installers will not be any where to be found and someone will be troubleshooting, switching, replacing things and the only things they will have to go by is the labeling used during installation.

Good luck, every system is different. Find the linemen working on the systems you will be designing and ask them what they want to see and how you can make their work easier, safer, and then make the system work for them.

I agree with most of what you said. I don't see an issue with the loop being on different circuits, that way if you loose one circuit you can feed them off of the other circuit. Another thing I prefer is to bring your main feeders into switch gears then loop your switch gears and then take your transformers off of your switch gears in another loop from gear to gear. This way you avoid making every pole a riser.

[URDesignerCub]

Thank you for these posts! Some great thoughts, and much appreciated. I will always try to design in a loop where I can, but I'm still a bit confused about the de-rating of parallel cable runs without enough separation, and sometimes that seems to limit where I can accomplish a loop. I'm still sorting out the "whys" of that in my mind. I sure appreciate the posts so far! GREAT forum here!

[Pootnaigle]

Umm I dont see hoq using 2 different circuits is anything more thanna accident waitin to happen. a fault anywhere in the loop wud take out one circuit an closing in the other end will only take out that other circuit Plum Stoopid if'n ya ask m

[lewy]

Umm I dont see hoq using 2 different circuits is anything more thanna accident waitin to happen. a fault anywhere in the loop wud take out one circuit an closing in the other end will only take out that other circuit Plum Stoopid if'n ya ask m
Closing in on a known fault is plain stupid and unnecessary today, whether or not you are on a loop system or a radial. We have multiple circuits and stations all tied together both overhead and underground. I think most understand that if you loose 1 circuit, it is nice to be able to pick up as much load as possible with another circuit.

[reppy007]

Closing in on a known fault is plain stupid and unnecessary today, whether or not you are on a loop system or a radial. We have multiple circuits and stations all tied together both overhead and underground. I think most understand that if you loose 1 circuit, it is nice to be able to pick up as much load as possible with another circuit.

Dont tell the management types that its stupid around here to close in on a 90% chance the loop will blow back....they simply wont understand that viewpoint.

[Lineman North Florida]

I agree with most of what you said. I don't see an issue with the loop being on different circuits, that way if you loose one circuit you can feed them off of the other circuit. Another thing I prefer is to bring your main feeders into switch gears then loop your switch gears and then take your transformers off of your switch gears in another loop from gear to gear. This way you avoid making every pole a riser.
I think what Frog is saying is where you have a loop with one end tapped up on one circuit and the other end tapped up on another you have what we call dual circuit loops, 99% of the time when you try to tie the loop we blow the fuses on one end or the other due to the imbalance between the 2 circuits, therefore we always wind up killing 1 side then tying the loop up to the open point so we don't blow fuses. IMO main line circuits have no business being tied thru fuses, if Frog meant something else I'm sure he will be along to straighten it out.

[lewy]

I think what Frog is saying is where you have a loop with one end tapped up on one circuit and the other end tapped up on another you have what we call dual circuit loops, 99% of the time when you try to tie the loop we blow the fuses on one end or the other due to the imbalance between the 2 circuits, therefore we always wind up killing 1 side then tying the loop up to the open point so we don't blow fuses. IMO main line circuits have no business being tied thru fuses, if Frog meant something else I'm sure he will be along to straighten it out.

We have the same issue on our system. Any time we have to make parallel on the transformer loop and they are fed off 2 different circuits, we first make a parallel on the trunk on the same 2 circuits then go back and complete our make and break on the transformers, then break our trunk. We have no issues doing it this way and nobody is out of power.

[URDesignerCub]

I start this next week if the corporate approval comes through, but in the meantime I've been reviewing the specification and materials books, trying to wrap my haed around it all.

What I can see (so far) is that most of our UG system is (all in conduit) 750 feeders between switch cabinets, and then the loops and radials are 1/0 between cabinets with around 8-12 padmounts per.

It looks like a pretty clean system. This is what I've gleeened and noted from the "manuals" so far...:cool:

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/SNAG-0002_zps6f8f000b.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/SNAG-0002_zps6f8f000b.jpg.html)

And here is one of their "sample" drawings...except I added the red 750 and phasing to show the typical feeder setup (for clarity). I see a few obvious places (in their example) where a "loop" could be added, except I'm still unclear about how much multiple conductor I can run parallel in the same trench and still not de-rate the conductors too much. I seem to remember seeing a limit somewhere. I'm looking forward to trying to make sure I do it "right" with the linecrew/maintenance in mind.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/HBEDesignD_zps3423b500.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/HBEDesignD_zps3423b500.jpg.html)

[bones]

The only issue I have is subpar labeling. In underground, labeling is everything. I've opens boxes before with just a bunch of blank white flags staring back at me. I'm sure they had black marker on them at one point but not anymore:rolleyes: The yellow number stickers beside the primary bushings are the way to go.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummm yeah n the tags needa give a feller the direction that stuff goes from the transformer
sho nuff helps findin the next tub inna fenced in yards subdivision

[linemanfrog]

Thank you for these posts! Some great thoughts, and much appreciated. I will always try to design in a loop where I can, but I'm still a bit confused about the de-rating of parallel cable runs without enough separation, and sometimes that seems to limit where I can accomplish a loop. I'm still sorting out the "whys" of that in my mind. I sure appreciate the posts so far! GREAT forum here!

The only reason I could possibly see for derating parallel cables is if they are close enough that their combined heat build up causes a problem. Generally, at least on our system, our cables are not loaded to the point where heat becomes a problem.

[linemanfrog]

I know that at times you are able to tie two circuits together and then switch on a dual circuit transformer loop, however that depends on just how close you are able to tie the two circuits together to where the loop is. The theory of not losing half of a dual circuit loop if you loose a circuit is not enough to make me agree with making dual circuit loops a standard practice. If you have circuit lockout, then you get the majority of power restored thru switching and isolation of the affected areas. Personally I feel that taking the time to switch dual circuit loops during these situations only lengthens the time that the circuit is locked out.

The labelling definately needs to be of a sort that lasts indefinately. I've actually took and drew in the lid of a transformer showing how and where both primary and secondary runs went in relation to buildings and such. I mainly did this in apartment complexes and such where things were not as one would expect.

[URDesignerCub]

We seem to have a pretty good labeling system, and I know some of the newer stuff is going to a punched metal tab-label that won't fade into oblivian even if the color fades you can still read the label numbering.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/homebuilders34_zps50671648.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/homebuilders35_zpsb0c02c74.jpg

[lewy]

We try as much as we can to loop our switch gear with 1000 MCM on vista switches then branch off to transformers with 1/0. We also try and loop the 1/0 from gear to gear with an open point in between, sometimes they are on different feeders so before we make a parallel on the 1/0 we make a parallel on the trunk, but again only when we are on different feeders. If we loose a circuit and are just picking up customers there is no parallel so we don't have to make the trunk parallel first. By using Vista switches it allows us to use fewer riser poles and have fewer transformers on 1 loop than if you went pole to pole with just transformers on the loop.

[URDesignerCub]

Our system looks similar. I have some drawings/photos posting (but apparently waiting on moderator approval)...but it's pretty much all 750 feeder from Switch Cabinet to switch cabinet, then the primary (loops and radials) are all 1/0 fed from the cabinets. (All in it's own conduit: Feeder, primary and services). Our labeling is pretty good too, as we seem to be going to the "embossed/stamped" metal number "tabs" so even if the color fades you still can read the raised/punched alpha-numbers, and the metal labels are attached at both ends of every cable run. (images to follow).

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5566&d=1370188653

[URDesignerCub]

This is what I've gleened so far for our system...typical 12,470/7200

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/SNAG-0002_zps6f8f000b.jpg

And a typical "example" 750 Feeder (from the dip) to a switch cabinet, then the 750 runs between Cabinets and the primary 1/0 makes the radials and loops of the transformers.
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/HBEDesignD_zps3423b500.jpg

[URDesignerCub]

Example
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/homebuilders34_zps50671648.jpg

[URDesignerCub]

I'm still getting a feel for the system, and the various configurations.
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5561&d=1370188068

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5562&d=1370188069

It's pretty clean with pretty much all 750 feeder and 1/0 primary.
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5567&d=1370188654

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5567&d=1370188654

[LinemanLocal2]

I agree with most of what you said. I don't see an issue with the loop being on different circuits, that way if you loose one circuit you can feed them off of the other circuit. Another thing I prefer is to bring your main feeders into switch gears then loop your switch gears and then take your transformers off of your switch gears in another loop from gear to gear. This way you avoid making every pole a riser.

I don't see the problem with a different circuit as long as it is the same phase. One thing that always bugged me going out on URD was opening up all the transformers and never having a stand off bushing in them. Yeah I know you should carry some and we did but it got old fast having to put new ones in every time we opened one up.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm I agree wif ya ever tranny shud be equipped with standoffs or parkin stands or whatever ya call em.

[lewy]

Really a parking stand at every transformer? How many transformers do you think you have? Every time you close to move an open point you gain one, I think you just have to know how many you need when you leave and stock accordingly.

[URDesignerCub]

We try as much as we can to loop our switch gear with 1000 MCM on vista switches then branch off to transformers with 1/0. We also try and loop the 1/0 from gear to gear with an open point in between, sometimes they are on different feeders so before we make a parallel on the 1/0 we make a parallel on the trunk, but again only when we are on different feeders. If we loose a circuit and are just picking up customers there is no parallel so we don't have to make the trunk parallel first. By using Vista switches it allows us to use fewer riser poles and have fewer transformers on 1 loop than if you went pole to pole with just transformers on the loop.
Our system looks to be about the same. All our feeders are 750 from the dips and between switch cabinets, then all the UG primary is 1/0 (looped to another cabinet if possible). Everything (Feeder, Primary, and Service is in it's own conduit). I don't think we ever direct bury anything (except maybe temp service). Looks like 5"C is typical for the 750,and 2"C for the 1/0 Primary. Looks like a pretty clean system (example from our design manual).
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5567&d=1370188654


I'm digging through the spec/mat'l manuals and learning the "rules"...

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5566&d=1370188653

Most transformers are Dead Front, but I know there's still some old live fronts out there. The labels seem well done also, as they are the stamped-raised metal tab type, so even if the color fades (black on yellow) it looks like you'll still be able to read the raised numbers. And they get attached to the end of every cable run/termination point from what I can tell. It looks like we have a pretty clean system. Dam, I can't wait to get started, just listening to you folks! Nice to be involved with a job/product here again that's one of the few things still proudly "Made in the USA!" And, what a GREAT forum here. I appreciate every post!
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5561&d=1370188068

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5562&d=1370188069

[reppy007]

We used to have tons of livefronts used as switching pots...stayed that way for years.Ill assume that thats unusual today.

[Trouble1]

We still have a handful of those... They are probably the worst thing you could run into when you get an urd fault. Especially annoying when there are no labels, no fault indicators and your company doesn't let you lift live fronts that are dead with any load connected and you only have one other guy to help. I've had a few of those that took roughly 16 hours to find the faulted section... live front switching stations are by far the worst.

[URDesignerCub]

System example from the design manual...
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5567&d=1370188654

[URDesignerCub]

One thing about this part of the country (Southwest) is the **** irrigation stuff. I could just imagine having a live front open and be manipulating stuff, and with the sound of "sht-sht-sht-sht"...the sprinkler comes on behind you and hoses down you and all the 12.4KV stuff you have open. Yikes! What kind of phase isolation would you have if you're all under a gyser of water all of a sudden?

But, hel, I'm still trying to just get a mental grip on our different dead front elbow types and configurations! :cool: And our various Trenching configuration standards! Got a ways to go yet before I'll REALLY feel confident to call myself a real "designer". But, I'm bangin' my head on it.

[reppy007]

We still have a handful of those... They are probably the worst thing you could run into when you get an urd fault. Especially annoying when there are no labels, no fault indicators and your company doesn't let you lift live fronts that are dead with any load connected and you only have one other guy to help. I've had a few of those that took roughly 16 hours to find the faulted section... live front switching stations are by far the worst.

Another bad feeling is that when you found and repaired/isolated the fault and you need to get home soon cause you have a plane to catch for a vacation thats been planned.....and your sure it will hold.....only to hear the fuse blowing cause theres another fault futher down the line,that or you have already rolled up the cords to the urd van,which means you have to unroll and hook up again.....na,thats never happened:(

[URDesignerCub]

Live fronts + Irrigation would scare the **** out of me. Everything wet...
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5574&d=1370305288

With the possibility of sprinklers randomly coming on full at you horizontally.
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5575&d=1370305288
Scary stuff to a cub like me. And something I hope to improve/consider in design.

[Trouble1]

I don't know what your work practices are but that doesn't look safe to me. Why would you go hands on a live live front? If you can't do it with a stick then it should be isolated.. just an opinion.

We don't have any of those type here. The only live fronts we have are arc stranglers, old oil switches, and direct bolted spike terminations. Bolted type switching stations are the ones that I think are the worst because if the rest of the pads are bolt ons, then we have to lift secondaries or open building breakers on all pads in the urd area to start removing bolt ons at the switching station. Makes me sick thinking about it. I rarely see them anymore luckily.

[URDesignerCub]

I don't know what your work practices are but that doesn't look safe to me. Why would you go hands on a live live front? If you can't do it with a stick then it should be isolated.. just an opinion.

We don't have any of those type here. The only live fronts we have are arc stranglers, old oil switches, and direct bolted spike terminations. Bolted type switching stations are the ones that I think are the worst because if the rest of the pads are bolt ons, then we have to lift secondaries or open building breakers on all pads in the urd area to start removing bolt ons at the switching station. Makes me sick thinking about it. I rarely see them anymore luckily.
I couldn't agree more (standing 1/2 in wet grass waiting for a sprinkler to come on), and it's something I hope to improve as much as I can design-wise.

Don't be shy about voicing opinions and even chewing my ass when I need to learn/see something. You guys will see and hear things that are obvious to you, that I will not. I'm here to learn to "see" to improve our system from a field/user standpoint! ALL thoughts/posts/comments are welcome and appreciated Trouble1.

Live fronts + Irrigation is already at the top of my list of my own pet peeves.

And the municipal street crews put that sign^ in a pretty bad place too, right? (needs Hacksaw? ;))

[URDesignerCub]

With the same URD circuit in the same trench in and out of a device I'm told to try to limit the distance to no more than 50', because I'm told this drastically derates the feeder. I'm also told I can put them in separate trenches as long as I separate the trenches by 10'. Is this because of inductance/capacitance issues between the conductors?
We don't separate overhead that much. I'm confused. Does this statement in our manual make sense to anyone?

[Trouble1]

Not an engineer but that doesn't seem right unless you were using some type of unshielded cable. Could be wrong but maybe the section of the manual refers to secondary cable?

As far as that sign, yeah that's pretty close to hacksaw treatment. We had a CVS Pharmacy that built a concrete handicapped ramp in fron of a pad mount once and they had a secondary fault in the pad. We could get the doors open but couldn't use a shot gun on the elbows. We ended up spending two hours switching and taking outage on a really busy commercial area to get it de-energized. We were not happy with the property owners and we made sure we directed all the people enjoying happy hour in their direction to voice complaints. Bad design on our part as far as not being able to switch it easy but a direct result of the property owners not thinking.

Two morals to that story I guess... Never operate hands on(no shotgun) in the primary side of a switch no matter how much extra work it is and keep a good relationship and inform property owners about where they can put fixed objects around pad mounts.

[URDesignerCub]

Not an engineer but that doesn't seem right unless you were using some type of unshielded cable. Could be wrong but maybe the section of the manual refers to secondary cable? Thanks, Trouble1, I'll find out first thing (because that and the looping is the only thing that's kinda thrown me so far). They mention "Feeder" limited to 50' to/from devices, and that doesn't make sense, I see more on the maps. And, I'll add making sure to design away from handicapped/parking as another good lesson for my list. Good points.

As far as our looping policy, it looks like we loop "only when a natural loop condition exists, and the distance between same or opposite phases are within 500'." I'm told the policy is to have less than 4000kVA on a loop, and on that loop less than 2160 to the NO point (as one of the engineers explained), but that also sounds high.
(the way it was explained):
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/loopfeed_zps6222859a.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/loopfeed_zps6222859a.jpg.html)


Still trying to get it straight in my mind about how this works with fuse coordination. I know we also limit normal radials to 625kVA max per phase, not anything close to 2160kVA (or 4000!).

Still can't get loop "operations" sorted out in my mind. Something seems "off" about the logic (but I'm sure it's just my inexperience). Everyone's posts here are helping, but...do you put in a larger source fuse temporarily when you close the NO, and carry the extra load of the "full" loop on the alternate source with a larger fuse than normal?

Silly question but how do you ever close (in the temporary "loop" configuration) on the full 4000kVA of the "loop" (after isolating the fault) if you're normally fused for 625kVA but now have closed a NO to create maybe twice the load on that circuit? I realize we're not usually loaded anywhere near the "max" (and it's mostly residential so the time of load varies and levels out much lower, in reality) but still, it would be much higher than the "normal" load for that phase. Especially say at mid-day when everyone's A/C is running in sync.

Do you throw in a much higher source fuse when you temporarily close the NO to pick up that extra load?

Push it right up to the ampacity limits of the 1/0? I know the Engineers and Operations do the fuse coordination (above my pay grade), but I want to understand how this temp "loop" (close the NO to a different source) stuff works as far as "normal" fusing coordination.

[lewy]

Live fronts + Irrigation would scare the **** out of me. Everything wet...
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5574&d=1370305288

With the possibility of sprinklers randomly coming on full at you horizontally.
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5575&d=1370305288
Scary stuff to a cub like me. And something I hope to improve/consider in design.

We all have things in our system that we would not build today. One is live front switch gear, we no longer install them and are replacing some with these http://www.sandc.com/products/underground-distribution-switchgear/vista.asp. As far as transformers same thing all of our new single phase transformers have primary switches and our 3 phase transformers also have secondary switches. Cost a little more, but reduces the number of times you have to move a live elbow.

[URDesignerCub]

I was going to ask you what the "Vista" switch was. LOL! But I didn't want to show ALL my ignorance at one time! And the "switched" transformers are very cool! Thank you for the links/images.

[Lineman North Florida]

Thanks, Trouble1, I'll find out first thing (because that and the looping is the only thing that's kinda thrown me so far). They mention "Feeder" limited to 50' to/from devices, and that doesn't make sense, I see more on the maps. And, I'll add making sure to design away from handicapped/parking as another good lesson for my list. Good points.

As far as our looping policy, it looks like we loop "only when a natural loop condition exists, and the distance between same or opposite phases are within 500'." I'm told the policy is to have less than 4000kVA on a loop, and on that loop less than 2160 to the NO point (as one of the engineers explained), but that also sounds high.
(the way it was explained):
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/loopfeed_zps6222859a.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/loopfeed_zps6222859a.jpg.html)


Still trying to get it straight in my mind about how this works with fuse coordination. I know we also limit normal radials to 625kVA max per phase, not anything close to 2160kVA (or 4000!).

Still can't get loop "operations" sorted out in my mind. Something seems "off" about the logic (but I'm sure it's just my inexperience). Everyone's posts here are helping, but...do you put in a larger source fuse temporarily when you close the NO, and carry the extra load of the "full" loop on the alternate source with a larger fuse than normal?

Silly question but how do you ever close (in the temporary "loop" configuration) on the full 4000kVA of the "loop" (after isolating the fault) if you're normally fused for 625kVA but now have closed a NO to create maybe twice the load on that circuit? I realize we're not usually loaded anywhere near the "max" (and it's mostly residential so the time of load varies and levels out much lower, in reality) but still, it would be much higher than the "normal" load for that phase. Especially say at mid-day when everyone's A/C is running in sync.

Do you throw in a much higher source fuse when you temporarily close the NO to pick up that extra load?

Push it right up to the ampacity limits of the 1/0? I know the Engineers and Operations do the fuse coordination (above my pay grade), but I want to understand how this temp "loop" (close the NO to a different source) stuff works as far as "normal" fusing coordination.Both ends of a loop should be fused the same in my opinion,if you have a fault that you located and isolated and need to tie the loop the last thing you need to worry about is having to change fuses on the one good end and what's the chances that they are going to get changed back when another crew puts it back to normal, but it's done different ways in different parts of the country, when in Rome do like the Romans.

[URDesignerCub]

Let me make sure I understand the way you guys work a loop...

You have a Normally Open in the middle somewhere (and this is usually just a transformer elbow from the alternate source that's "parked" open, correct?). Now, if it's faulted secondary you simply bypass whichever transformer is feeding it (with a feedthru standoff) then isolate THAT service, BUT if it's faulted primary you isolate that section of primary by pulling the elbows on each side of it. (or if it's near the cabinet you open a switch on one side and then pull the elbow on the other side). Now the fault is isolated and you temp-feed by closing the NO.

Kinda like this:
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/LOOPOPERATION_zps67c8bed4.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/LOOPOPERATION_zps67c8bed4.jpg.html)

But, what throws me is that you have (temp) doubled the load on the circuit at SC#2, when you closed the NO and added T1 and T2, to what used to just be T3 and T4. In this example do you (temporarily) put a larger fuse in at SC#2 for the time when the NO is closed and you are carrying all four transformers instead of just the two?

I'm told that "fuse coordination" is an "operations concern", but dammit, I can't just design a "loop" with an "infinite" number of transformers. If the Normal Open is closed to feed extra xfmrs in a temp emergency, that source fuse is now carrying more than normal, and how much more could drive it right up to the limits of the 1/0 ampacity and past the limit of the "normal" fuse for that circuit. How does that alternate source's "normal" fuse handle all the extra (temporary) load?

[URDesignerCub]

PLEASE bear with my questions guys...I know I'm getting a little hyper-analytical, but I'm supposed to get "the phone call" in the next two days or so, and I really want to be ahead of the game...and hit the ground running! I've been really trying to come up to speed on my own...I really want to do a good job! I'm not a "young man" anymore, and this will (hopefully) be the last job in my career. So, I really want to shine from "day-one" with some actual REAL knowledge from the "hands".

I sure appreciate EVERY post from you folks!

[Trouble1]

Depends on how temporary the off schedule will be. Troubleman are not going to go out an calculate load when picking up extra transformers in an emergency. So we will use whatever is supposed to be there. Another reason for keeping the same fuse is for when it goes back to normal somebody doesn't forget to reduce the fuse size to normal.

You can tell if an overhead fuse blows from load by looking at it and generally a primary fuse won't blow from load since you have to be over the load limit of the fuse for a few minutes unless it's fault current going through it or it's way overloaded. Since primary fuses are mosly overfused it shouldn't be a problem.

I wouldn't worry about fusing after a fault since you will probably be fixing it right away. If you're schedualing something for work to be done for an extended period of time, then I would change the fuse coordination while you're off schedule.

[thrasher]

Every Utility has a different philosophy on fuses but in general the two practices are (1) fuse to the expected load or (2) fuse to the maximum for that source and conductor. We operate under the option 2 so if the maximum fuse I can co-ordinate on the Dip Pole is a 100 amp fuse then that is what we put in whether its two transformers or 20 transformers. This way we are not constantly needing to change fuses due to load growth and also all of our loops are already fused to take the entire loop.

[URDesignerCub]

Thrasher, Trouble1, that helps fill in the blanks a bit. Thank you.

[bobbo]

There is no reason when building new U.G. for the need to be operating live elbows, all transformers and switch gear come with switches that you can operate before moving anything, along with capacitive test points for testing for potential as well as phasing. Also there should be clear easy to understand nomenclature on both primary and secondary. And all cables should be in duct as much as possible. FCIs should also be part of the system.

1st time in 15 years I put a straight elbow without testpoints. For the kid, either with loadbrak or deadbreak the pin has to be threaded all the way in. It kind of sucks pulling an elbow and the pin is in the bushing because some fool crossthreaded the first thread abd plugged it in.

[lewy]

1st time in 15 years I put a straight elbow without testpoints. For the kid, either with loadbrak or deadbreak the pin has to be threaded all the way in. It kind of sucks pulling an elbow and the pin is in the bushing because some fool crossthreaded the first thread abd plugged it in.

Why today would anyone be installing non load break elbows without test points. That is just being cheap and telling the men you don't really care about their safety.

[bobbo]

Why today would anyone be installing non load break elbows without test points. That is just being cheap and telling the men you don't really care about their safety.

Thats your management, your property, your supply chain, . . .your mislabeled system . Your primary fourteen tp sixteen inches depth on your primary. Two phases in a parked can because your system hasnt been regular for thirty years. Circuit maps not updated or even correct. Everything you say is criminal I think so too. But I dont work that property too halfass for me. I do think your new trucks with the logo all the way down it is nice though.

[bobbo]

As far as termination to equipment or a feed to a junction or vacuum switch. But,in vault work its a plug and play set for vault work to keep your connections dry. To build prumary harnesses for bank in a vault, jut one at the equipment. Those 600 amp components though, you just read off the plug, or bip.

[Rob]

Our system looks to be about the same. All our feeders are 750 from the dips and between switch cabinets, then all the UG primary is 1/0 (looped to another cabinet if possible). Everything (Feeder, Primary, and Service is in it's own conduit). I don't think we ever direct bury anything (except maybe temp service). Looks like 5"C is typical for the 750,and 2"C for the 1/0 Primary. Looks like a pretty clean system (example from our design manual).
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5567&d=1370188654


I'm digging through the spec/mat'l manuals and learning the "rules"...

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5566&d=1370188653

Most transformers are Dead Front, but I know there's still some old live fronts out there. The labels seem well done also, as they are the stamped-raised metal tab type, so even if the color fades (black on yellow) it looks like you'll still be able to read the raised numbers. And they get attached to the end of every cable run/termination point from what I can tell. It looks like we have a pretty clean system. Dam, I can't wait to get started, just listening to you folks! Nice to be involved with a job/product here again that's one of the few things still proudly "Made in the USA!" And, what a GREAT forum here. I appreciate every post!
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5561&d=1370188068

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5562&d=1370188069

The problem with this design is if you have a fault w/o TX123464 on Mandalay you have no way of picking up 5 pots.

[reppy007]

The problem with this design is if you have a fault w/o TX123464 on Mandalay you have no way of picking up 5 pots.

I noticed that you criss-cross your primary and secondary,also the tank ground and the way the primary neutral is grounded....seen that done elsewhere but not here.....is that plastic covers over the sec/bussbars....guys here hate them.

[reppy007]

OHH left out your communication ground...didnt see that Rob...every crimp we made at this one place was a unit...they wanted every unit counted.:D

[reppy007]

I always liked those rubber secondary covers. I use to have my own that I carried on my truck, when I ran into the older transformers that didn't have them. I'd use em when hookin up a new service that had been run....or a street light. Then take em off and put em back on my truck for next time.

Beat the hell out of Blankets.

Ive used two types of rubber secondary covers...one pair covered up too much....might as well have touched the ground itself,so I took a blade to them and shortened them to what I thought was just right....made to urd bag a litter lighter too......nothing like carrying a heavy urd bag all day and all night long.

[reppy007]

I thought ya didn't like em....:rolleyes:

The reason I DID like em was, it made it a lot easier and safer when usin the allen wrench tightenin up a phase.
Why woundn't a lineman Like them???

Guess we are talking about two different types....rubber guards are given to you by the company....they are ok....Some plastic types come with the transformer,those are the ones I dont care for...not a big deal though....I have a way of dealing with that type :D

[URDesignerCub]

The problem with this design is if you have a fault w/o TX123464 on Mandalay you have no way of picking up 5 pots.
Right. It seems like it would have been better to design it as 2 loops instead of 4 radials.

[URDesignerCub]

.....is that plastic covers over the sec/bussbars....guys here hate them.No, I think it's just weird lighting on the photo. But, I'll find out.

[bluestreak]

In CT. the standard for the last fifty years is to have a 36" cement silo below the trans slab makes switching and training the wires a lot easier, usually made a complete wrap with the pri. and a little less with the sec. About twenty years ago they started with a duct type system using 3or4 inch pvc. Cost a lot more for the customer to install and added to the repair time, no more dig up and repair now switch out more area and pull out the cable if it goes bad.

[Lineman North Florida]

No, I think it's just weird lighting on the photo. But, I'll find out. X1 and X3 in your photos have got the plastic covers on them.

[URDesignerCub]

X1 and X3 in your photos have got the plastic covers on them.
Thanks LNF!
So they're a flimsy/lightweight clear plastic cover (in the picture)? That seems kinda crappy...for anything more than just shipping. But, I guess if they do the job. But, you guys like the "rubber" kind better, right? Does anyone have a photo/or link to the rubber type? And they make 'em for the z-bar type too? I don't find anything like that in our Spec-Manual, but maybe I can figure out how to spec these (rubber type) out?

[URDesignerCub]

This old thread seems worth re-reading...regarding URD Padmount XFMR secondary covers.
http://powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?6023-Worker-electrocuted-in-Martinez

[Lineman North Florida]

I like to use what we call spade covers made out of Orange rubber and they are tested every six months along with the rest of our rubber goods, I was taught to put one on each hotleg while I made up the neutral then move 1 to the neutral while I made up the first hotleg then cover it and make up the last hotleg, you get the idea it only takes a minute to do it right, even a simple job like making up a single phase service in a padmount.

[URDesignerCub]

I like to use what we call spade covers made out of Orange rubber and they are tested every six months along with the rest of our rubber goods, I was taught to put one on each hotleg while I made up the neutral then move 1 to the neutral while I made up the first hotleg then cover it and make up the last hotleg, you get the idea it only takes a minute to do it right, even a simple job like making up a single phase service in a padmount.
That sounds like a good policy. You guys must have a lot of the spade type secondary connectors, I wonder if they have rubber covers (not the plastic) for the z-bar type that would work like that.

So, this rubber cover is something that you guys carry as a type of operating PPE, and not something that I would spec out for you when the XFMR is ordered?

I'm wondering if they DO make something permanent (rubber) that would act as sort of an installed "dead front" for the secondary connectors. What is it that sucks about the plastic...does it eventually get brittle and want to shatter/chip when you work it?

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/PM4-350SR-6-PL_zps3f0b0733.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/PM4-350SR-6-PL_zps3f0b0733.jpg.html)
Something permanent (rubber) similar to these (except this must be a plastic type), only made for the z-bar connector, and made of the rubber? We seem to like the z-bar connectors, as it's all I've seen on the few open dead fronts I've gotten to look at. Or, for you guys would it be better to just leave the secondary connectors uncovered, and use the temporary Rubber PPE-type when you work them?

[lewy]

In CT. the standard for the last fifty years is to have a 36" cement silo below the trans slab makes switching and training the wires a lot easier, usually made a complete wrap with the pri. and a little less with the sec. About twenty years ago they started with a duct type system using 3or4 inch pvc. Cost a lot more for the customer to install and added to the repair time, no more dig up and repair now switch out more area and pull out the cable if it goes bad.

Something like this?

[linemanfrog]

I believe what LNF is refering to is on the last page of this:
http://www.salisburybyhoneywell.com/en-US/utility/coverup/linehosecovers/Case%20Studies/linehose_covers.pdf

They are rated to cover both primary elbows as well as secondary buss bars in transformers.

They are semi flexible, provide good coverage, and long lasting with proper care. They do a better job of providing protection than the plastic covers that are supplied with the z bars, buss bars, etc that go in a padmount. I personally feel safer with a rubber product designed and regularly tested as a PPE item than with a cover provided by the connector manufacturer since you have no idea how it has been treated, the effects of long term exposure to elements has had, etc. I mean would you trust a line hose that has been curled up in a wet moldy nasty truck bin for who knows how long? So why would you trust a much thinner clear piece of plastic that has set in a transformer for who knows how long?

[URDesignerCub]

I personally feel safer with a rubber product designed and regularly tested as a PPE item than with a cover provided by the connector manufacturer since you have no idea how it has been treated, the effects of long term exposure to elements has had, etc. I mean would you trust a line hose that has been curled up in a wet moldy nasty truck bin for who knows how long? So why would you trust a much thinner clear piece of plastic that has set in a transformer for who knows how long?
That makes sense.

And especially here in the desert where "plastic" turns to crap after 2years. A lot of that's from the sun's UV which may not be as much of an issue if it's under the xfmr cover, but also from the dry-extreme-heat as well. You folks are a wealth of practical wisdom, and I can't thank you enough. It just "clicks" so much better when I can see it at least in a photo.
LMF, Thanks for the link!

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/spadecovers_zps896f678f.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/spadecovers_zps896f678f.jpg.html)

[reppy007]

The S6CG type rubber cover is the covers that I dont care for...little too long for me....now another thing Ive noticed is the secondary/drop wire going into the spade horizonal,where you have to use the allen wrench socket wrench between the bussbars...Ive done it both ways...but here the holes are verticle....being that we bring the secondary and drops on the secondary side....no criss-crossing.....and we bring the primary up on the primary side of the transformer.......just another situation where different areas do it differently........

[URDesignerCub]

...now another thing Ive noticed is the secondary/drop wire going into the spade horizontal,where you have to use the allen wrench socket wrench between the bussbars...I've done it both ways...but here the holes are vertical....being that we bring the secondary and drops on the secondary side....no criss-crossing.....and we bring the primary up on the primary side of the transformer.......just another situation where different areas do it differently........
Yeah, the criss-cross is done here locally...
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/in-lineUGxfmr_zpsbadd8d72.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/in-lineUGxfmr_zpsbadd8d72.jpg.html)

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/end-of-lineUGxfmr_zps97d028c0.jpg

I don't know why our book shows the second primary ^ conduit stub-up on a EOL transformer? (above)
WTF is that going?

Guess it's gonna get pretty crowded in a "loop" fed transformer w/the "normal open point" where you have a lot more going on in the primary side (parked feedthru connector, more elbows, etc). I don't know how you guys get all that 1/0 to train properly in such a small space when it's a full house and you have to criss-cross.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/padwithstubups_zps368b717a.jpg

[URDesignerCub]

Typical setup...(and we do a lot of back lotline stuff too):
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/typicalurdxfmr_zps7a253a8d.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/typicaltrench_zps126689d7.jpg

[Rob]

Yeah, the criss-cross is done here locally...
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/in-lineUGxfmr_zpsbadd8d72.jpg (http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/TyPortfolio/media/in-lineUGxfmr_zpsbadd8d72.jpg.html)

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/end-of-lineUGxfmr_zps97d028c0.jpg

I don't know why our book shows the second primary ^ conduit stub-up on a EOL transformer? (above)
WTF is that going?

Guess it's gonna get pretty crowded in a "loop" fed transformer w/the "normal open point" where you have a lot more going on in the primary side (parked feedthru connector, more elbows, etc). I don't know how you guys get all that 1/0 to train properly in such a small space when it's a full house and you have to criss-cross.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/padwithstubups_zps368b717a.jpg

Having slack in the primary just makes it easier to switch later on. Really makes no difference if it's criss crossed. You wouldn't want the cable coming up right under the bushings.

[URDesignerCub]

Having slack in the primary just makes it easier to switch later on. Really makes no difference if it's criss crossed. You wouldn't want the cable coming up right under the bushings.I think we have a pretty good system from what I can tell with my limited experience. You guys will see issues that I don't recognize yet, but so far it seems pretty decent. I guess we all have our old "live front" stuff that's not a "preferred" construction in certain areas, and I guess we are all changing that stuff as time/budget allows.

The only place I can see where it might get really "crowded" might be in the "Normally Open" transformer on a loop system, where there might be a full set of secondary connections, criss-crossing with the normal elbows PLUS the feedthru-connector and the second-source parked elbows. But, I guess you guys make it work without issue.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/loopfednoxfmr_zpscc67de5d.jpg


The multiple-conduits underneath, criss crossing and possibly feeding service and streetlight in all different directions has got to be a challenge too, sometimes, I would guess. Like a spider web in a spaghetti factory. ;) But, I'm sure this URD is child's play compared to some of the old city/downtown antiquated "network" systems some of you get involved with!

We seem to have a pretty clean "standardized" system compared to some.

[URDesignerCub]

We all have things in our system that we would not build today. One is live front switch gear, we no longer install them and are replacing some with these http://www.sandc.com/products/underground-distribution-switchgear/vista.asp. As far as transformers same thing all of our new single phase transformers have primary switches and our 3 phase transformers also have secondary switches. Cost a little more, but reduces the number of times you have to move a live elbow.
These do look interesting...
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/vista01_zpse2d59f17.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/vista02_zpsc244b885.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/vista03_zps632a504f.jpg

[lewy]

These do look interesting...
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/vista01_zpse2d59f17.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/vista02_zpsc244b885.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/vista03_zps632a504f.jpg

That's all we install now, the two things I like most about them is there is no exposed energized conductor, so climate does not have any effect on it and the operating side is on the opposite side of the cables so you are away from them if something were to go wrong.

[bluestreak]

The box is sort of the same except our silos are round they tend to make training the wire easier and by having the area below the trans or switch open and free it's easier to switch and the primary aren't laying close to the secondary spades. In the last ten years or so we have installed those salsbury type spade covers and left them on the trans in case critters climb on them after we leave.

[URDesignerCub]

There is no reason when building new U.G. for the need to be operating live elbows, all transformers and switch gear come with switches that you can operate before moving anything, along with capacitive test points for testing for potential as well as phasing. Also there should be clear easy to understand nomenclature on both primary and secondary. And all cables should be in duct as much as possible. FCIs should also be part of the system.
Well said, Lewy.

[reppy007]

One thing about this area,its not actually the work ....its getting to the transformer itself..people grow shrubs and everything else in front of them.Apartments may be the worse.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm once i had one they had built a wishing well around

[reppy007]

Umm once i had one they had built a wishing well around

you gotta be kidding....................Right?

[T-Man]

Umm once i had one they had built a wishing well around

I had a similar one, four fences of four different yards surrounded one, we almost gave up looking for it till one of the land owners asked us what we were looking fr. A green box? Yea it's on the other side of the fence. . .there it was! We had to ask permission to remove a section of fence to get at it.

I had one built next to a chain link fence. . . . The access was against the fence. . .the fence came after the transformer. We switched it out and our URD crews picked it up and turned it around, slab and all. We had to break some rules to test it dead I'll tell ya.

[reppy007]

Years back I was sent out of my area....sent to the north side of houstom where a storm hit.....I was running a urd radar van by myself....I was told that they would send help when they got all the circuits back on.........well help never arrived and I went to loop after loop well into the next day.I forgot how many loops in all....well around 6am I was on one of those loops......and there was one transformer that was located inside a shed in the backyard.....just my luck.....turned out to be a bad insert bushing.....you know the old non loadbreak 19.9 elbows with the small copper probe...and the little spring thats built inside the bushings..............never did get any help until around 11 am the next day.......just 22 hrs of loops after loops by myself.....kind of got lonely.I could have used a friend like swamp that day.:D

[URDesignerCub]

Umm once i had one they had built a wishing well around
LOL! Ours aren't usually that bad, but we do have a lot of overgrown "rabbit hutches" (like below) that grow anywhere we have irrigation. You can see we have pretty good metal-tabbed labeling here also.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g461/TyPortfolio/P1110176_zps814ef002.jpg
Quite a bit of small residential rooftop photovoltaic-type co-generation in many residential areas.

The retirement communities especially are becoming known for a lot of residential photovoltaic co-gen, as well as a lot of electric "alternative energy" (non-petroleum) vehicles (Electric Golf Carts!).

[HiStrung]

The best advice is as follows: I would set poles in line with the URD right-of-way, then I would string and tie-in the URD cable to the insulators. The linemen will be confused the first day of construction, but will soon come to like the design.
That way animals won't short circuit the line (based on the insulation of the URD) and you will always be able to see where any fault exist. This also eliminates the need for fault-locating instruments.
Send pictures when you are done with construction!

[reppy007]

We have a few low areas where the transformer and the pad are on top of cinder blocks....some 3 feet high some my be 4 to 5 feet high....I always wondered why put them so high...if it floods in those areas there wouldnt be anyone in the homes anyway.....not anyone normal.

[Lineman North Florida]

The best advice is as follows: I would set poles in line with the URD right-of-way, then I would string and tie-in the URD cable to the insulators. The linemen will be confused the first day of construction, but will soon come to like the design.
That way animals won't short circuit the line (based on the insulation of the URD) and you will always be able to see where any fault exist. This also eliminates the need for fault-locating instruments.
Send pictures when you are done with construction! Somebody beat you to it, it's everywhere and it's called Hendrix cable or tree wire anyhow it's insulated primary cable. And when I was working in Baltimore I saw several different places where they had URD jacketed primary strung between poles, they had a name for it, spacer cable maybe? or something.

[HiStrung]

Somebody beat you to it, it's everywhere and it's called Hendrix cable or tree wire anyhow it's insulated primary cable. And when I was working in Baltimore I saw several different places where they had URD jacketed primary strung between poles, they had a name for it, spacer cable maybe? or something.

That is good to know. We don't use that type of material out here in the farming community of Colorado. I didn't know such material existed and didn't realize my attempt at humor was actually reality!

[Pootnaigle]

Umm they use that stuff where there is an abundance of trees

[trigger]

I work for this outfit. You could just ask us.

[rob8210]

They have tried a few ideas around here. Spaced aerial , lashed primary ( 3 phase ), and more and more Hendrix everyday. Hendrix does do the job quite well in trees, but is a pain to work with. On a storm in Vermont, we were chasing a 3 phase line of Hendrix and found 2 phases wrapped together. The birddog figured it has been built that way!

[URDesignerCub]

I work for this outfit. You could just ask us.
I hope I get to someday!

Looks like I've gotten sidetracked with a short stint on the Generation (protective relaying) side of the house! But, stay cool out there, it's getting well into the monsoon season! (that's 115deg with Thunderstorms, for those not familiar with Arizona!)

:cool:

Stay safe!

[trigger]

I'm on the mountain a mile high in the pines. Retiring the last of March 44 years. And I know nothing.

[URDesignerCub]

I'm on the mountain a mile high in the pines. Retiring the last of March 44 years. And I know nothing.Nice!

Little different URD up there...where the snowplows roam! ;)

[Pootnaigle]

Umm I bleve when they dig the trenchs a n above ground marker shud be set so a feller cud tell atta glance where the wire ran

[lineman1234]

Closing in on a known fault is plain stupid and unnecessary today, whether or not you are on a loop system or a radial. We have multiple circuits and stations all tied together both overhead and underground. I think most understand that if you loose 1 circuit, it is nice to be able to pick up as much load as possible with another circuit.


Im new hear. I agree. its not safe to close in on a 90% dead fault. BUT. working for a large company in PA as a trouble man working alone. I always had to give it a POKE. overhead underground,,, lines I couldn't even totally patrol. Give it a poke.
That said. its is not fun being alone and refusing a 100T FUSE that has violently blown, on a 19920 riser. YEP toss it in with a 15 foot stick ( cause I couldn't use a extendo hear) double ear plug and toss it in. yep, blew my hard hat off. wish it would have hit a car!!!!
That's when the fun starts. dispatcher wants you to go in the middle and pull and park elbows by youself and go give it another poke.
Company is met-ed, bought out by first energy.
When they would say be safe, I would say safety is a joke. then im the bad person.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Im new hear. I agree. its not safe to close in on a 90% dead fault. BUT. working for a large company in PA as a trouble man working alone. I always had to give it a POKE. overhead underground,,, lines I couldn't even totally patrol. Give it a poke.
That said. its is not fun being alone and refusing a 100T FUSE that has violently blown, on a 19920 riser. YEP toss it in with a 15 foot stick ( cause I couldn't use a extendo hear) double ear plug and toss it in. yep, blew my hard hat off. wish it would have hit a car!!!!
That's when the fun starts. dispatcher wants you to go in the middle and pull and park elbows by youself and go give it another poke.
Company is met-ed, bought out by first energy.
When they would say be safe, I would say safety is a joke. then im the bad person.

im retired from JCP&L, your assessment of FE is correct. Not sure about Met Ed, but dispatchers at JC have no line experience whatsoever. I never let them tell me how to shoot trouble.

[lineman1234]

im retired from JCP&L, your assessment of FE is correct. Not sure about Met Ed, but dispatchers at JC have no line experience whatsoever. I never let them tell me how to shoot trouble.

Good for you. for being retired like myself.
a dispatcher being 60 miles away. its easy to say just give it a poke.
as someone is going to work in the morning with a wire on the car and they push it off just at the time one pokes it. not cool at all