during urd switching/lenght of stick

[reppy007]

When switching hot primary....is it your companys policy to use the 14 foot barrel stick /shotgun or is it up to the lineman doing the switching....some places my require a shorter stick due to the lack of space...whats your personal preference?

[Pootnaigle]

Ummm I remember using a 4 footer to ddlap a jumper on some 138KV to initially energize a stretch of line bout a mileanna half long..... I mssed n the wind wuz blowin right back tward me n the arc was a comming rite down that stick to me when I managed to make a solid contact. wud not have been purdy if It took a second longer cause I wudda had me a handfulla 138. was kinda neat to see that blue arc just a movin down that stick. But now them short sticks iz outlawed

[T-Man]

They use the standard shotgun I believe its 6 foot maybe shorter (its been awhile) but on 14.4 two men are used, one stands facing away from a possible flash with his hands are on the stick while the other man operates. If there is a flash the operator is temporary blinded and the backup can still control the stick and park the cable and assist the operator.

[reppy007]

They use the standard shotgun I believe its 6 foot maybe shorter (its been awhile) but on 14.4 two men are used, one stands facing away from a possible flash with his hands are on the stick while the other man operates. If there is a flash the operator is temporary blinded and the backup can still control the stick and park the cable and assist the operator.

I think its a 7 foot stick T.... when you mentioned two men,it reminded me of plenty of times when I was having trouble pulling off an elbow and the other guy was watching.....or daydreaming.....Im like.....hey man....you cant see that I may need a little help!:D

[T-Man]

Speed systems makes a pretty good tool for stuck terminators.
PT1525 Pulling Tool Product Line

[linemanfrog]

We require 8 foot shotguns here for both OH ad UG use. Our standby trucks are allowed to use 7' 6" shotguns only because an 8' stick will not fit in the stick bin on those trucks.

Poot that just sounds plum crazy to use a 4 foot stick on 138......i bet your tail puckered up when that happened.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm sho nuff it did

[bobbo]

I would use a four footer if I heat checked the elbow, and the property owner decided to put a big ass boulder in the way, right in front of the door. And what ever length to go through a couple of pine trees. Then if I cant get to it, a chainsaw a hammer destroying everything in front of the door and whatever is yellow or orange gripall length I have in front of me to open that elbow, because after that I dont care. Because no one can read the big ass label dont put anything in front of the door. And the worst I had it was an abandoned car without tires, then you just kill the whole circuit.

[reppy007]

I would use a four footer if I heat checked the elbow, and the property owner decided to put a big ass boulder in the way, right in front of the door. And what ever length to go through a couple of pine trees. Then if I cant get to it, a chainsaw a hammer destroying everything in front of the door and whatever is yellow or orange gripall length I have in front of me to open that elbow, because after that I dont care. Because no one can read the big ass label dont put anything in front of the door. And the worst I had it was an abandoned car without tires, then you just kill the whole circuit.

Ohh,they can read the label/sticker placed in front of the transformer...but they dont or they think its meant for the easter bunny which will never be in their yard.Thats one thing that will never change in this line of work.

[Lineman8641]

T-man, do you have a problem with the partial vacuum flashover on the 14.4/25kv? We were having that problem when the temps dipped below 35 degrees or so. I know your area is much colder than the Mid-Atlantic region. We began using the new elbows and inserts that take care of the problem. If we have the older style elbows/inserts, we are not allowed to switch them if the temps get below 40 degrees. We'd have to open up the fuses until the switching was complete, then re-energize. Sounds crazy I know but that 14.4 flash to ground comes up fast and loud.

We have to use 8' shotguns on all URD, but if we choose to use shorter shotguns, we can with a flash shield and FR hood on. I have the adjustable model so it basically goes 4', 6' and 8'. On Live Fronts, I try to use the 4' NX puller with the flash shield and FR hood. Those Live Fronts are wicked dangerous. Especially the ones with the porcelain Lightning Arrestors on the primary side. Most of our area is 12 kv, but we do have quite a bit of 25 kv. We can also do the switching with one T-man. As a matter of fact, it's a rule in the Safety Book that 2 people can't be on the stick at the same time. Go figure.

[Hebrew]

Our system here is 11kV and 24kV.Personally,I prefer the 4'shotgun.An 8' is our standard stick but I find that the stick twists in the middle and the torque doesn't get to the head unless you put a lot of force on it.

[T-Man]

Lineman8641,

We did have that problem on 14.4/24.9. Our engineers worked with Copper Power to develop a terminator that pretty much eliminated that problem. I haven't been there for three years now so I can't say if they are not having the problem any longer. The enhanced elbows have a yellow band around them and there is a yellow dot up near the pulling eye.

[reppy007]

Im going to be honest guys....Ive never seen a four foot shotgun...I thought old man Poot was kidding when he mentioned one...but what do I know???:nightmare:

[lewy]

We use 6' grip alls. We use to have 4 foot grip alls for the station guys to apply grounds in a tight area, but we never used them in the air or for switching. Our rules clearly state we can not operate elbows by ourselves, second man has to present, but that doesn't mean he is on the stick.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummm speakin of shotguns have ya ever used an old un? they had the twpeiices that met inna middle instedda the ones kinda meet one one side like the ones in use today.

[reppy007]

How many times have you tried to put one of the longer non-folding types into a bin of a new truck and it wouldnt fit...........:D

[thrasher]

We have a variety of brands and styles with the shortest being 6' and majority 8' we even have one 10' shotgun stick. All the 4 foot shotguns are gone (sawn in two and thrown in dumpster) we have also done away with all the internal rod shotgun sticks because we just couldn't get them to consistently pass the wet dielectric test, in fact most wouldn't pass the dry dielectric test.

[Lineman8641]

Lineman8641,

We did have that problem on 14.4/24.9. Our engineers worked with Copper Power to develop a terminator that pretty much eliminated that problem. I haven't been there for three years now so I can't say if they are not having the problem any longer. The enhanced elbows have a yellow band around them and there is a yellow dot up near the pulling eye.

Thanks T-man. We're on the same page then. We had Copper here as well and we use the same elbows with the yellow bands. One of our up and coming "Stars" thought it would be ok to just put the enhanced elbows on the normal open points. Someone had to explain what happens when you have a cable fault or have to change a PM and the open point moves.

[reppy007]

Speaking of elbows.....has everyone seen an extended elbow? Ive only seen those in Flordia.Not used here,matter of fact ,not seen in these parts.

[T-Man]

We had elbows with lightening arresters built in them.

[reppy007]

We had elbows with lightening arresters built in them.

We had them too Mr.T....On our open point of the loop....always a good place to look first when we had a loop that went out when it was foggy.....the old loops that had tub type transformers had a porcelain arresters in every transformer....some were still good but cut in the clear....wonder why they did away with that idea....having them in every pot?

[T-Man]

Reppy, we had those also. We called them transclosures. It was an overhead tub sitting on a concrete slab, wired the same as on a pole with a cutout and arrester. Not sure why they did that like that , maybe they hadn't worked out a modern URD system yet and built them like the overhead. This configuration was covered by a steel box bolted to the slab and a door to operate from.

[reppy007]

Whats been your experience with them burning up.....Ive changed many and most of them were still working.....maybe one or two that went bad....we changed them out due to leaks,and because they wanted a deadfront there....but they almost last forever.

[bobbo]

Was there to replace a bad cable and terminate. And I go in the backyatd looking for the pad, at first didnt see it. This little old lady painted it white and put the lady of guadalupe and adorned it with prayer candles and a couple of other saints. I had to pray and look for a clean spot for all the stuff. She made a prayer altar out of the transformer.

[rob8210]

Years ago , I went looking for a switchgear in a backyard, made 3 trips out to the leadhand asking if he was sure it was the right yard. Dang thing was buried under a bunch of crap.

[reppy007]

Years ago when switchgear was sorta new they sent a couple of us on a loop.....said the terminal pole was in such and such yard......no poles in sight........hell we were not trained on switchgear.....had to train ourselves....start from scracth.....our bosses didnt know about them either....no surprise there.

[US & CA Tramp]

Years ago , I went looking for a switchgear in a backyard, made 3 trips out to the leadhand asking if he was sure it was the right yard. Dang thing was buried under a bunch of crap.

True story, When I was an apprentice back in 70,71,72, we had to do some switching on underground. At that time everything was in underground vaults. The vault and switch gear was on the back yard property easement covered with a metal grate. When we puled the grate off there was an old network type switch, primary bushings with cable attached, taped stress cones and taped up primary bushing for insulation protection. To operate the switch gear you had to use a switch stick and reach down while standing above the tub. If that wasn't bad enough the tub and switch handle was buried with dirt from all of the garden dirt falling through the grate over the years. We ended up spending the night changing it out to a pad mounted switch gear and new primary cable to reenergize the area.

[bobbo]

We took half the day looking for a vault in the middle of a nursery. They buried the vault in three feet of topsoil. We shovelled for about four or five hours looking for the manhole. After :nightmare:the 20 th attempt my gf said screw it the abnormal circuit is now the normal circuit. We used everything to find that cover and I will always respect him for saying enough is enough. We did everything, probed the dirt to hear metal. We dug under evrything to find that manhole. And that old gf said screw you. How many people ar lime that now adays.

[Lineman North Florida]

Had a burnout in a loop at a mall, isolated bad section of 3 phase cable and got print to try and figure out how cable ran, it showed a 10' by 12' manhole in the parking lot on the other side of the mall, me and another guy searched for a couple of hours with no luck so I decided to call a locator out and hooked it on the cable for him, we tracked it to where the locator showed the cable making a 90 I said it's got to be here, sure enough under 3" of asphalt there it was, it had been paved over 25 or so years back. I hate underground.:D

[reppy007]

LNF...Hope it wasnt Coconut Mall in S.Flordia.Ive worked at that location....nawww its not 20 years old.:D

[rob8210]

The longest stick I ever used on underground was 3 lengths of 6' switch stick while helping a trouble truck on an underground fault. We were working from a single phase underground switching unit, and being extra careful in case it tried to blow back at us. It had been a very long night.

[De-energized]

Speaking of elbows.....has everyone seen an extended elbow? Ive only seen those in Flordia.Not used here,matter of fact ,not seen in these parts.

Extended elbow? Now where is it longer? We use bushing extensions on 600a bushings for T-bodies on primary cable such as 1250mcm. Mainly because its not as easy to bend as smaller cables.

[lewy]

Extended elbow? Now where is it longer? We use bushing extensions on 600a bushings for T-bodies on primary cable such as 1250mcm. Mainly because its not as easy to bend as smaller cables.

We use them, but only when changing a transformer and the cable isn't quite long enough, beats doing a splice.

[reppy007]

We use them, but only when changing a transformer and the cable isn't quite long enough, beats doing a splice.

lewy is right.....their used alot when going from a livefront to a deadfront.....it eliminates the use of a splice......You can cut the primary low and crimp on a extra long lug,Im guessing 10 inches or so....put the extended elbow on and attach the probe....your set.

[bobbo]

lewy is right.....their used alot when going from a livefront to a deadfront.....it eliminates the use of a splice......You can cut the primary low and crimp on a extra long lug,Im guessing 10 inches or so....put the extended elbow on and attach the probe....your set.

Thats smart as heck! Problem is having the right material!