loadbuster on 4 KV

[in the bucket]

Backround. I work at a very small muni. All old 4 KV. It's all I've ever worked on, and I was trained by people that have never worked anywhere else.

The topic of loadbusters came up the other day. Obviously they can't be used on old porcelain boxes. We do how ever have some newer c/o's out there. 90% are not load breaker cutouts. We use simple hot sticks for everything. Don't even have a loadbuster in the shop.

Here's the question. The nomenclature for the new c/o's tell you to use a load buster to open them. I was told, "it's only 4 KV it's not necessary" by my supervisor. Do you guys just use a hot stick to de-energize 4 KV ( actually 2400v phases) or use the loadbuster? For loads we are talking about 37 1/2 kva pole tops, street taps, ug risers etc. 100 amp frame sizes for the cutouts in question fused at 100 and as low as 25.

[Trouble1]

Our company rule is that if it can accept a load buster then you have to use it no matter what the voltage is. If you can't use a load buster then you can use a stick as long as it's under 50 amps. Seems like a good rule. 100 amps is a lot to break with a stick. If construction is tight, the arc will cascade. I've seen it happen before where guys draw an arc opening something with high amperage and not being smart enough to close it and try again, they just leave it open and let the pole blow up 'cause they panic. Rules are different for different companies, but your supervisor is wrong. If a cutout blew up in your face and they are manufactured to be opened with a load buster then I'm sure the finger would get pointed at you.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm if thhe cutout has horns on the top a loadbuster can n shud be used

[in the bucket]

I pretty much knew the answer to this. Thanks fellas.

[bobbo]

If you gotta big ass can 4/0 leads, clamp it and see what you got. I mean if you got four or five hundred amps yes, load bust. Also load bust when you got a fixed cap bank. People dont clamp anymore, when it was common prqctice before. Keep a clamp in my tools and you get so much info about load. 200 amps is the max on cut outs, and if you get near that 200, loadbust. Rule of thumb was we cut with our kleins with just 15 amps or under, we didnt care about if there was a switch. It has nothing to.do with.voltage but what you got as load. Forget company policy, clamp your stuff, know your full load currents and you decide to load bust or not. If its windy on high load three phase, yes load bust. Its about taking care of yourself. Do I need to load bust a 10 kva can, no. A bank of.167s with 350 copper leads, yeah. Fixed cap.banks, yes. On storm, some dum**** power companies put solid blades in for switches. Dumbasses dont know that are.not for breaking load, but make and break parrallel. Dont trust em, load break.

[Old Line Dog]

Do you guys just use a hot stick to de-energize 4 KV ( actually 2400v phases) or use the loadbuster? For loads we are talking about 37 1/2 kva pole tops, street taps, ug risers etc. 100 amp frame sizes for the cutouts in question fused at 100 and as low as 25.

Been awhile since I worked any 4.16KV Wye, let alone 2400 Delta...but No...NEVER used a "loadbuster" ever on that siht....back in the day...Nowdays...don't know. Haven't even seen any 4 KV for 20 years.

[thrasher]

Not a hard and fast Company rule but it is a guideline if you have over 20 amps use a loadbuster whether 4Kv, 12.5KV or 34.5KV. What feeds the arc is load not voltage. You want to use a loadbuster tool where the ARC has enough current driving it to last long enough in time to reach a grounded object and then you have a fault in your face. Low ampeage Arcs you can usually snatch open fast enough to break.

[Old Line Dog]

Not a hard and fast Company rule but it is a guideline if you have over 20 amps use a loadbuster whether 4Kv, 12.5KV or 34.5KV. What feeds the arc is load not voltage. You want to use a loadbuster tool where the ARC has enough current driving it to last long enough in time to reach a grounded object and then you have a fault in your face. Low ampeage Arcs you can usually snatch open fast enough to break.

Not meaning to be a smartass or anything, but can you show me a picture of a 4KV Cutout that takes a Loadbuster tool?

Honestly....Unless they have modified the Loadbuster tool....I've never seen anything like that.

AND....that's entirely possible! I been retired for a few years.:cool: Still....would like to see a picture of a loadbuster tool for a 4 KV cutout.

[urban1095]

We just put up 15kv cutouts on are 4 system. Ready to loadbreak.

[thrasher]

We use a standard 15kv cutout on the 4KV lines.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Not a hard and fast Company rule but it is a guideline if you have over 20 amps use a loadbuster whether 4Kv, 12.5KV or 34.5KV. What feeds the arc is load not voltage. You want to use a loadbuster tool where the ARC has enough current driving it to last long enough in time to reach a grounded object and then you have a fault in your face. Low ampeage Arcs you can usually snatch open fast enough to break.

Exactly.........

[Orgnizdlbr]

Not meaning to be a smartass or anything, but can you show me a picture of a 4KV Cutout that takes a Loadbuster tool?

Honestly....Unless they have modified the Loadbuster tool....I've never seen anything like that.

AND....that's entirely possible! I been retired for a few years.:cool: Still....would like to see a picture of a loadbuster tool for a 4 KV cutout.

I haven't seen any 4 kv construction built in a long long time, it's all built for 15kv and above......and there's a hell of a lot more load now then there was "back in the day"

[rob8210]

Its the same here , most fellas don't loadbust 4kv. It used to be a rule of thumb to loadbust anything over 15 amps, and generally we would loadbust inlines when breaking parallel. Some of the newer less experienced people will want you to loadbust everything that accepts a loadbuster. I always loadbust an underground switch, just in case I have been sent to the wrong one.

[bobbo]

I spent the whole day with a burned hair smell. It sucked. If I clamped it. I would have done something different. Do they still manufacture bayonets? I have seen them new im Cali, they were these big poly barrels. I dont think 95%.of the lineman today dont even know how to install a fuse in them or how they work. I know if you got a 4kv system, your company or prppertyis at least 80 years behind the times or there is no real load nor jobs in those cities. Thats why lineman dont see them anymore? I know NFL cities with a lot of growth have cutover 2 times in my lifetime. Tx, va, ga . . .the states with alot of population surges and high growth is where 19.9/34.5 is standard. 50 to 60 foot poles standard. When I started, I didnt see open wire in my whole apprenticeship. Then I go to Detroit, where all there was openwire. 19.9/34.5 is a great voltage if you build it right and have alot of automated circuits. I know Center point troubleman just need extendos to tackle 90% of their work. If its well built, always updated and user friendly its a great system. But if you dont maintain it, It would be a nightmare to screw with that voltage, class 4s and baker boards. And instead of a little orange flash, big white bomb flashes with no second chance.

[rob8210]

Yep, checking the load sure makes the decision easier and it only takes a few seconds. Just might save the underware for tomorrow. We don't have any 34.5kv up here , yet. 27.6kv is getting more common, and I have worked with guys that treat it all wrong, like its 4kv. That is until their first blowup. I was taught to treat each voltage as its own, they all have heir perks. I did have a guy one night get upset with me for not loadbusting a 27.6kv transformer switch on a 100kva transformer, fused at 6k. Rule of thumb was loadbust on 15 amps or more. Only once did I have a 4kv cutout arc over, an old chocolate box too, we just kept waving our stick through the arc til it broke. The young fellas today would have s*** themselves. I haven't seen bayonet fuses in a long time, but I know positechs are still around

[bobbo]

4800 delta or 2400/ 4160 wye they use bayonets. Bayonet exhaust goes out the backside and inline. A 15 kv cut out exhaust goes up and down. So 4kv is usually backlot or where the poles are really busy, a lot of circuits and risers. And you can put circuits on both sides of the arm and have multiple arms close together. Or even risers and those big trafficators above or below circuits. To me on the busy poles with potheads and circuits close together. Is it wise to put a 15kv cut out on one of those poles. Remember arc goes up. Exhaust from the barrel fuse goes down. it depends on situation and circumstances, but if there is something above and below that phase is it wise to put a 15kv cutout on it? Thats why they put bayonets in the first place? To me if you put a 15 kv cutout real,close to something else, there is going to be problems for someone else. A lot of young guys dont get this. I have opened and closed on bayonet fuses with 50 cans on it. They were built safe. You got two freebies and one rumbler. Slam them fast!

[birdog37]

Just a thought for anyone installing a new cut-out.Before you hand it up to the guy,install the fuse in the door,try it in the cutout to make sure of good contact.We had as a company a cut-out ( s&c) that had a defect,the contact was bent or manufactured wrong.Bottom line well bad cut-out,changed it out,handed refused door up on a 3 phase buck arm pole.Heavily load circuit,out for a while,closed it in and it never stayed,dropped open and well the cascading effect took place.They don't make a hot stick long enough if you know what I mean.Just a thought if you don't want to be the subject of a line department meeting.

[bobbo]

Funny thing when I started this old dude always carried a coil of sauder and I didnt know why. Til another older lineman told me. Before these loadbusts old guys use to wrap sauder around the switches before they openedthem. The silver flux took the arc. Good to know if you got those old birdhouse crazy old switches that the loadbuster wont fit. Those were the Red and Slim days of this trade.

[Old Line Dog]

Funny thing when I started this old dude always carried a coil of sauder and I didnt know why. Til another older lineman told me. Before these loadbusts old guys use to wrap sauder around the switches before they openedthem. The silver flux took the arc. Good to know if you got those old birdhouse crazy old switches that the loadbuster wont fit. Those were the Red and Slim days of this trade.

That's interesting as heck. NEVER heard that before. All kinds of "stuff" we "Use to do...back in the day"...that would just FREAK linemen and friggin OSHA out nowdays. :p

But...Whatever...

Us Old Fcuks are dyin out...Pretty soon, You "New breed of Linemen"...will be the Old timers"..."The Times they are a...changing"..."Bob Dylan."

REAL name....Robert Allen Zimmerman.:cool:

Bet you yongens...never knew that did ya. Do you ever Know who Bob Dylan is?:p

[bobbo]

If they had to open a switch with a lot of amps. They kept holes in back of their hardhats. One guy would open the other would have his hardhat on a stick to break the arc. I talked with a guy last week and I rembered that.Remember I worked with a guy that was trained from Nazi Germany. And the guy would never go in a bucket. And he hated candy asses. If he went in the yards today he would go ape****. He was going ape**** in the 90s with candy asses. One tough good dude. There is so many things these young guys dont know that I have seen or experienced. They think I am crazy. But when I started my lineman were in their 60s and they were tough and knowledgeable. These guys trained by 20 year olds, training 20 year olds. I was lucky. Whipping, candycaning, gin pole sets, . . . Terms and practices a lot of people never heard I have done. Very luxky.

[bobbo]

That's interesting as heck. NEVER heard that before. All kinds of "stuff" we "Use to do...back in the day"...that would just FREAK linemen and friggin OSHA out nowdays. :p

But...Whatever...

Us Old Fcuks are dyin out...Pretty soon, You "New breed of Linemen"...will be the Old timers"..."The Times they are a...changing"..."Bob Dylan."

REAL name....Robert Allen Zimmerman.:cool:

Bet you yongens...never knew that did ya. Do you ever Know who Bob Dylan is?:p

The Band is on my IPOD. I am more of a Neil Young fan, and early Clapton while he was on heroin.