How many companies build for the troublemen. And do the troublemen have input in spec

[bobbo]

I am driving around looking at stuff. I see secondary wrapped around the pole. I see ground right on the quarter with the cutout. Just ignorant stuff. When I have done this trade and there was trouble, you are always in the worse situation there could be, one bucket maybe two men or three men. The older guy gets the bucket and the others get on the hooks. I am tired we can build anything we want because its "bucket accessible". That is never the case in my life. Even on the street and two poles need to be worked, there was always guys on their hooks. And you look at the secondaries its all real hack a big blob of squeese ons with no order or sense, the younger lineman arent even tap ping to feed, piggybacking service to service, or all of them put in one connector. 20 years ago, we were told to build for the next guy in the worst situation, we bent the leads and organized services so the next man can see the bus on the ground and figure it out. Now they are big black tape blobs.with no craftmanship, no care. I hate the word, "bucket accessible" so you can do what you want. Working storm or trouble and you will never get the bucket where you want, you have minimal amount of people, customers all over, cars all over, little light, you get on the wood and you have a big blob of tape you have to figure out because some one built it "fast" but they never thought about the next guy.

[T-Man]

I guess I lived in a different world. We have construction standards up here. All of the construction is planned according to those standards and the system in whole is pretty much the same from one end to the other. We did have areas we picked up from other defunct outfits where the neutral on the secondary was on top rather than in the middle of the spreaders in open wire construction. And of course every lead likes the sag his way rather than using a sag table for temp and span length. But the construction is standard 98% of the time.

What you were explaining bobbo is like a third world county construction. . . . .but then again . . . . we could be heading for that look if ya catch my drift.

[Lineman North Florida]

I guess I lived in a different world. We have construction standards up here. All of the construction is planned according to those standards and the system in whole is pretty much the same from one end to the other. We did have areas we picked up from other defunct outfits where the neutral on the secondary was on top rather than in the middle of the spreaders in open wire construction. And of course every lead likes the sag his way rather than using a sag table for temp and span length. But the construction is standard 98% of the time.

What you were explaining bobbo is like a third world county construction. . . . .but then again . . . . we could be heading for that look if ya catch my drift.
What's wrong with the neutral on open wire being on the top rather than the middle on open wire? Just curious as I have seen it both ways.

[Pootnaigle]

What's wrong with the neutral on open wire being on the top rather than the middle on open wire? Just curious as I have seen it both ways.

Umm jus think about pulling a new service drop up in the middle of 2 hot secondarys it extremely close at best I bleve the noodle shud always be on top

[bobbo]

Told to fix a pole, it had eight servies. I dont know if it was a JL or not. There was a number four tapped to the 1/0, and all the other services tapped to the number four. asked who did that pole, told him you cant do that, answer we do that here. WTF! As far as open wire I like it on top, the N, it only carries balance less amps, cooler, and most times smaller, so tighter. When you work where there is a lot of load and it cant bag down. Plus combination Neutral, it would be a lot safer, if that burns in two, you vot an open system neutral, big problems.

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

When it comes to open wire, I prefer to cut it down. But, when that's not an option, I like it when the neutral is in the middle. I've worked all different size open wire and I've never come across open wire where the neutral is smaller than the hot legs.

[bobbo]

They oddball the neutral size. Its a size smaller usually. And they put in on top since its combination {pri. And sec.} neutral. Mostly in california, they have delta I seen. Thats why when Californians are not use to that. They cut down the triplex, and forget or dont know its the primary neutral. Different strokes for different folks. When you go on storm you kind of have to look things over before you do something. And if you arent guilty of that , you are a one county boomer or Chist.

[Lineman North Florida]

Umm jus think about pulling a new service drop up in the middle of 2 hot secondarys it extremely close at best I bleve the noodle shud always be on top That's exactly why I was asking T what was wrong with it as I have seen it both ways but always preferred it on top for quite a few reasons, one of which you mentioned.

[T-Man]

There is noting wrong with it if your system builds it on top good to know, if my system builds it in the middle good to know, but it's a recipe for a blow if you get used to one way and it's not. so for us we had a middle neutral and we done just fine. till we ran across top neutrals and then if you didn't catch it there was sparks. I guess I'm saying don't mix it up like that.

It was common for the neutral to be #6 and the hots #4 copper. We had same size, it depended on the area and load.

[lewy]

We don't install any new open wire anymore either pre spun buss or tensioned spun buss but we do have a lot of open wire in our service area, both with the neutral on the top and the neutral in the middle. The older stuff is in the middle. I will take working on the stuff with the neutral on the top over the neutral in the middle any time.

[bobbo]

Right now I see bad material in the air. And bad construction. So do people have a say what tjey want to work on and maintain. Automatics I have no trust in anymore. If a pole needed to be climbed do you put a clear space for someone you know put the ground opposite of the cutouts. You know the simple stuff we used to have. Or is it willy nilly just put it up there.

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

I always look things over when I go on storm or work in a new area. Been on storm out East six times and haven't come across different sized legs on open wire. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just haven't come across it there. I did however, come across open wire in New York a few years back that was a different size. Bottom hot leg burnt down and had to sleeve it back together. Problem, the wire was somewhere between 4 and 2 solid. None of the sleeves would fit. I got it back up with a little ingenuity, but would still like to know the actual size of that wire.

Lewy, about two years ago on storm in New Jersey, they had us cut down the 4 solid open wire and put up 1/0 acsr open wire. We all laughed, but they were serious. No preformed or auto dead ends either. Wrap the wire around the spool and western union it back on itself. It was like taking a step back into the past.

[Rob]

I always look things over when I go on storm or work in a new area. Been on storm out East six times and haven't come across different sized legs on open wire. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just haven't come across it there. I did however, come across open wire in New York a few years back that was a different size. Bottom hot leg burnt down and had to sleeve it back together. Problem, the wire was somewhere between 4 and 2 solid. None of the sleeves would fit. I got it back up with a little ingenuity, but would still like to know the actual size of that wire.

Lewy, about two years ago on storm in New Jersey, they had us cut down the 4 solid open wire and put up 1/0 acsr open wire. We all laughed, but they were serious. No preformed or auto dead ends either. Wrap the wire around the spool and western union it back on itself. It was like taking a step back into the past.

Tramp... It was Probably 3 solid.. We still have that here. A 2 str sleeve would've worked.

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

You're probably correct. We just didn't have any 2 str sleeves. I even peeled back the tape off an existing sleeve to read what it said. Not one word was printed on that sleeve.

[in the bucket]

At my micro utility, we are able to build as we see fit most of the time. My partner and I don't cut corners and our jobs look like quality work. Too bad the cable and phone guys aren't the same way. Their work is utter garbage lately. I call it "elevated pollution".

[Trouble1]

Pretty sure guys build things to purposefully make it hard for trouble shooters because they somehow think we are stealing their work. Had a blown fuse last night on a three phase riser on a dead end pole. I had to drive ten feet into the shoulder high brush to reach the cut-outs that should have been facing the street.

[in the bucket]

Pretty sure guys build things to purposefully make it hard for trouble shooters because they somehow think we are stealing their work. Had a blown fuse last night on a three phase riser on a dead end pole. I had to drive ten feet into the shoulder high brush to reach the cut-outs that should have been facing the street.

Couple months ago we had a blown fuse at a three phase bank in the middle of a field. Sank the dang truck to the axels. Ended up getting a local landscaper to build a makeshift road to get out there. Good thing the Dunkin Donuts was on a different circuit.

[Old Line Dog]

Pretty sure guys build things to purposefully make it hard for trouble shooters because they somehow think we are stealing their work. Had a blown fuse last night on a three phase riser on a dead end pole. I had to drive ten feet into the shoulder high brush to reach the cut-outs that should have been facing the street.

That's really troubling you actually think that way man....
How the fcuk old are you?...as a "troubleman"? I remember when "troublemen" were the Older Linemen...that were given "troubleman" jobs, cause they had been workin on a Linecrew for 25 years, had the KNOWLEDGE of 25 years...and were getting older!! Nowdays.......never mind...

Back in my day, and Up until the day I retired, I built siht for the LINEMAN that came after me to work on a pole. I could care less if it was a "Troubleman".

Linemen, are Linemen man.
You seem to think there is a "difference" between a troubleman and a Lineman.

Just me personally...But I think your attitude AND your thinking is FCUKED UP! And people like YOU are the Problem in the "New Linework". God Forbid!!! You might actually have to climb a backlot pole one day, and refuse a transformer....

Sorry Bud...but your post just REALLY pissed me off. You Actually think that messed up siht?

[bobbo]

What is stupid is having open wire backed with a solid triplex hendricks clamp. If you got open wire, isolate it from the backside with a spool. I think they built your s.ystem for bonding, but thats not cool. Because you have a hot rack and thats not cool. Have hendricks clamp, but coming off the open wire it should be insulated. Common sense.

[Pootnaigle]

UMM WHEN i WUZ WERKIN WE TRIED TO MAKE THANGS EASY FOR THE OLD GUYSTRUBBLE SHoOTERS) and make sure all cutouts were positioned when they could be easily accessed we did however have sum contractprs that were bad about puttin em up so high a long stick wudnt reach em .. I blame that on the birddog that had no **** clue bout anything outside other than where the best buffets were

[rob8210]

UMM WHEN i WUZ WERKIN WE TRIED TO MAKE THANGS EASY FOR THE OLD GUYSTRUBBLE SHoOTERS) and make sure all cutouts were positioned when they could be easily accessed we did however have sum contractprs that were bad about puttin em up so high a long stick wudnt reach em .. I blame that on the birddog that had no **** clue bout anything outside other than where the best buffets were



There is still lots of open wire buss around here, although it is slowly being replaced with spun buss, or in some cases prespun buss. I have seen and worked on open buss with both top and center neutral, no big deal as long as you know what your working with. I have seen fellas build lines with what I call the pole trapped. That would be wires , especially services wrapped around the pole, couldn't be transferred live even if you wanted to. I have complained about fellas mounting transformer cutouts so high that you can't reach them with a long stick, heck I even seen a set of reclosers mounted too high. When I install transformer cutouts I put them out to the side of the pole ,in the clear, so that when closing in a transformer you are as far away from the front of the can as possible , just in case it blows up. This is how I teach all the apprentices I have worked with. Don't kid yourself there is lots of fellas that just plain don't care. My philosopy is I want the troubleman to be able to figure out what they are working on , quickly , easily , safely, and at night in the dark in the middle of a storm if need be.

[Trouble1]

That's really troubling you actually think that way man....
How the fcuk old are you?...as a "troubleman"? I remember when "troublemen" were the Older Linemen...that were given "troubleman" jobs, cause they had been workin on a Linecrew for 25 years, had the KNOWLEDGE of 25 years...and were getting older!! Nowdays.......never mind...

Back in my day, and Up until the day I retired, I built siht for the LINEMAN that came after me to work on a pole. I could care less if it was a "Troubleman".

Linemen, are Linemen man.
You seem to think there is a "difference" between a troubleman and a Lineman.

Just me personally...But I think your attitude AND your thinking is FCUKED UP! And people like YOU are the Problem in the "New Linework". God Forbid!!! You might actually have to climb a backlot pole one day, and refuse a transformer....

Sorry Bud...but your post just REALLY pissed me off. You Actually think that messed up siht?

I don't know how I pissed you off so much, but that is how it is where I work. We started doing more and more on outages and now guys are pissed because they don't get as much overtime. I don't know how that makes me childish. The whole mentality where I work is "That's not my job" on straight time, then on overtime it's "Hey, that's my job, you're stealing from me". I don't buy into that crap, hence why there are usually negative tones to how I talk about non-troubleshooters WHERE I WORK. Not you or the guys who take it seriously enough to join a forum to talk about work on their own time.

I didn't say you built things to make it hard for people, I said that the guys at the company I'm with make it hard partly on purpose and/because they just don't know what they are doing. I have no control over construction, but when I did I was always taught to build it to make it easier for the next guy regardless of the job classification. . That's not the case anymore. Almost every single pole with a manual switch is built with no thought in mind of the next guy.

Sorry if I don't talk highly of the guys building things where I work. That doesn't have any reflection on the guys in this forum or anywhere else is the country. You would talk as I do if you had to drive around and look at the crap that we have to deal with.

Don't feel like you need to take pot shots at me. I've always volunteered for the hardest jobs and while I don't climb much anymore, I would have no problem climbing all day.

[Old Line Dog]

It's just unfathomable to me that Linemen and troublemen working for the same company can feel that way about eachother. I've never, ever heard of anything like that. It's just unbelievable.....

[Trouble1]

It's not that guys go out of their way to make things difficult. It's that they won't go out of their way to make it easy for the next guy.

I think everyone should have to do the trouble job for a year once they are qualified. It would make things better for everyone.

Same night as the fuse I couldn't reach I had to ground a riser that was 20 feet away from the neutral and had to remove three piece outs in a two foot section of secondaries for flickering lights.. Why put a splice on a splice on a splice? Who knows, but that's the kind of crap that gets annoying. It's still one of the best jobs you can have in the company, but the extra difficulty shouldn't be there.

[bobbo]

The climb side is under the switches, clear of grounds and risers. Feed is higher, load is lower. Never buck your phasing, do your horizontal to verticals the same way. Build in line, key your service strains., Just simple stuff. And I can walk a block and see people not following simple stuff. Everybody has buckets and the work is easy. But peoe need to build thinking for the worst possible situation. on my street they have inline solid blades on the road side, underneath the switches is two risers one for the stree signals and one feeding the cable box. you cant use an extendo, because their is a tree in the way. And you would have to park perfectly to get a conventional bucket in. I dont think the poles are in line or the strains not supported, or people have crooked plumb bobs. The cable and tv guys are not following any code, we are all under.NESC. The end user of that structure is us,.and our fellow lineman whatever title they hold. Instead of thinking about making all this money. . .think about building for eachother. I have seen properties that are like that, co ops, but the big corporate holding company properties all they care about is meters spinning.

[rob8210]

We had a saying years ago, "the difference between a good job and a bad job is about 10 minutes". To this day I find it only takes a couple of minutes to plan out your pole so that it looks good and is easy to work on and troubleshoot. Yeah a fella should be on trouble for a while just to understand what all is involved. Back when I apprenticed we all had to do a 6 month rotation on a trouble truck.