What do you guys reckon. LESS IS MORE. ?

[bren guzzi]

Working in the uk ... The spec is different than in Ireland . I can see what I think is an improvement to the uk system. When we instal a T off x arm in the uk that is controlled by fuses. They construct it like picture A... Sorry about the quality of other pictures.
BUT. IN Ireland the T off arm has four holes. To enable the fitting of fuses on the arm it self. . In the uk they add an extra arm, plus pilot insulators . I think we should introduce the irish method to the uk for three reasons. Firstly the linesman would spend less time on the pole " and therefore safer " secondly ..." Electrically it would involve less connections. And thirdly less materials used..
It would be a cheap fix also. JUST A MATTER OF DRILLING FOUR HOLES IN THE T OFF ARM. ..
I'm thinking of trying to introduce this into the uk. IF........ AND ITS A BIG IF... I CAN GET OLD FASHIONED " that's the way it has always been done" mind set to change.

What do you guys across the pond reckon. ?

[lewy]

We would never do it the way the English do it, prefer the second method. We might use inline fused switches and the line side would also have LLCs. We only tap solid on the line side when using 900 amp switches, always LLC on 200 amp and below.

[reppy007]

Kind of wierd seeing the switches below everything .

[Pootnaigle]

Umm pardon my ignerts but what izza LLC???? I usta be a reglar hot wire lineman n aint never heered the term

[lewy]

Umm pardon my ignerts but what izza LLC???? I usta be a reglar hot wire lineman n aint never heered the term

Live line clamp, I was lazy

[bren guzzi]

Uk system never installed live. (Or the irish )

The fuses are always the lowest point " if possible" on the pole. Safest place for the enginer to operate them from.

[T-Man]

We use the second method also, maybe the arms are not so far apart and the jumpers shorter but similar. We have the fuses inline with the tap too.(other side of the arm). The UK method looks cluttered and dangerous if you had to work above the cutouts to replace a connector or whatever.

[bren guzzi]

We use the second method also, maybe the arms are not so far apart and the jumpers shorter but similar. We have the fuses inline with the tap too.(other side of the arm). The UK method looks cluttered and dangerous if you had to work above the cutouts to replace a connector or whatever.

Trouble is that's the method that they've always used. I think that the irish method is much better.
BUT AS I SAID " it's the way it has always been done." The method statements and drawings would need changing ...

The hard bit will be getting to talk to someone that has the power to change the uk method "to a simpler,safer ,and cheaper method."

BUT IM ON A MISSION TO GET IT CHANGED.
It annoys me when installing the uk method.... The line we are replacing at the moment has 30 or 40 T offs .

[rob8210]

I see what your saying, Bren, the Irish method is the better of the two. Its done that way here . But, I am a big believer in standards. We always encounter new and unusual ways to do things , being a contractor, so we take the attitude, when in Rome do as the Romans. I have gone through that hassle too, of trying to get a standard changed and modernized. Big wheels turn very slowly. Today I think the best way is to present it to a system engineer with the reasons why it is better, then you have a fighting chance. A couple of years ago I was on a design , build project were the engineers worked for us. Some of their designs were outdated and with a little coaching, and me just plan changing the plan, they came around to our way of thinking. Just taught them what was easier and safer. Fortunately they were open minded enough to listen to reason. Have fun and good luck with it!

[Old Line Dog]

Trouble is that's the method that they've always used. I think that the irish method is much better.
BUT AS I SAID " it's the way it has always been done." The method statements and drawings would need changing ...


$$$$ Bren. I've tried some standard changes. As logical and BETTER as it might be, as Rob said..."Big wheels turn slow".

Status Quo is hard to break into and change. Even if the Idea IS BETTER. Changing...costs money.

God I'm Glad I'm retire......:p

[paul maxwell]

I have also been down this road Bren,we used to do it that way about 10/15years ago in all of scotland(both dnos) then they started doing this at all t-affs,we raised this question why spend money,time effort doing this?this was the reply.no h.v jumper can be longer than 1.5 mtrs unsupported,engineers are only aloud to operate sticks up to 21ft long so if the t-aff pole was a 13mtr and the t-aff channel was 1.5mtrs down from the main line then mounting the h.v units on the back of a channel would cause the engineers problems(aw diddums),so I guess what I got from it was time,money effort of the contractor was nothing as long as an engineer doesn't have to struggle to hard(coz we all know how hard there job already is eh)

[bren guzzi]

Yeah but Paul. We are putting in higher poles to get the clearance . Most of the poles are 10 mts .. The T offs are 11 mts to give clearance ... ... " another extra cost. ".

I pulled fuzes for the ESB FOR YEARS. Not allowed in the uk ...

" it ain't rocket surgery ". :)

[Rob]

I have also been down this road Bren,we used to do it that way about 10/15years ago in all of scotland(both dnos) then they started doing this at all t-affs,we raised this question why spend money,time effort doing this?this was the reply.no h.v jumper can be longer than 1.5 mtrs unsupported,engineers are only aloud to operate sticks up to 21ft long so if the t-aff pole was a 13mtr and the t-aff channel was 1.5mtrs down from the main line then mounting the h.v units on the back of a channel would cause the engineers problems(aw diddums),so I guess what I got from it was time,money effort of the contractor was nothing as long as an engineer doesn't have to struggle to hard(coz we all know how hard there job already is eh)

I've heard you and Bren refer to Engineers operating the fuses. When you refer to an Engineer who are you talking about??

[bren guzzi]

I've heard you and Bren refer to Engineers operating the fuses. When you refer to an Engineer who are you talking about??

Engineers in the uk..and Scotland are only authorised under "the rules" to switch out H.V. lines. Testing H.V. equipment. .. Issue permits etc.
They are not real engineers as most people would think.
They are just "AUTHORISED" to a higher degree than a linesman.
For example the " engineer " will operate a switch to de energise a line. Fit the lock etc etc.. Then we attach the primary earths (grounds) .. He then issues us a permit to work on the Line...

Really they are just switching authorised ...
There's nothing stopping me becoming a switching engineer if Scotish power need more " engineers " But they normally only authorise STAFF.. We are contractors..

When i worked in Ireland we were authorised to switch out lines..
Different company's have different rules .

[Rob]

It's a little different here... Well in NY anyway. A contractor can switch under the direction of someone from the utility.

Transmission is a little different. After you've been trained you can take clearances on Transmission lines but not everyone has the training.

[rob8210]

Hey Bren , your engineers sound like something we used to have here, before my time though. They were called travelling system operators. They would place holdoffs and do switching on the system. Now they work in control rooms and direct the line crews to switching for them. I have heard a rumor a couple of places might be bringing them back.

[neil macgregor]

they use the same method up the north aswell bren
I was used to the UK system then came over here and thot it looked rubbish