QUESTION 4 yOU United Kingdom Types

[reppy007]

Bren,Stu,Paul and Clive....lets say you had no choice in this matter.Your sent to the U.S and have to do linework our way,meaning now you will be working most with energized conductors,rubber gloving primary and secondaries,hotsticking everyday,troubleshooting in the middle of the night between 12 midnight and 8 am,changing out transformers in the easement without buckets or diggers while the primary stays hot.....How would you think you guys would handle it ....lets say for 5 years.....keep in mind our safety record over here on this side of the pond.

[Old Line Dog]

Bren,Stu,Paul and Clive....lets say you had no choice in this matter.Your sent to the U.S and have to do linework our way,meaning now you will be working most with energized conductors,rubber gloving primary and secondaries,hotsticking everyday,troubleshooting in the middle of the night between 12 midnight and 8 am,changing out transformers in the easement without buckets or diggers while the primary stays hot.....How would you think you guys would handle it ....lets say for 5 years.....keep in mind our safety record over here on this side of the pond.

Funny siht reppy. funny siht.

You seriously disrespect our UK Linemen, with a stupid post like that?

If you were close enough, I'd slap you upside the head for bein a completely ignorant a$$hole!

Honest to god...I can't believe the dribble that comes out of your brain.
I know you're NOT living in a retirement home...but you sure NEED to be!! You need somebody to take care of your ignorant a$$. And somebody needs to pull your internet plug....

[reppy007]

shud up swamp,,,you wouldnt have the guts to slap me, boy.

[Old Line Dog]

shud up swamp,,,you wouldnt have the guts to slap me, boy.

heh, heh, heh.....
I'd slap the siht out of ya reppy.

It'd be more fun to just Slap your stupid ass than it would be to actually punch ya in the face.:D

I'd LOVE to "Slap fight" ya.:D:D

[reppy007]

Its not about me and you swampy....let them answer....what part did you not understand....I didnt ask you...I asked them.....go whine about merica or politics and let them answer........geez.

[Old Line Dog]

Its not about me and you swampy....let them answer....what part did you not understand....I didnt ask you...I asked them.....go whine about merica or politics and let them answer........geez.

No problem repster.

I can't wait for their answers......

Your siht is just SO off the wall....I'm surprised somebody hasen't PUT your a$$ in a "Home"!!!:D

[reppy007]

The question could be turned around swamp..what if us guys were sent there to work for 5 years....It would take time to get used to,having everything de-energized.Id most likely say why cant this be done hot,because I was brought up that way.Yes it would be difficult at first,but Im sure Id get used to doing it their way,I might even say it was better,but as of now I couldnt tell you that.

[Old Line Dog]

The question could be turned around swamp..what if us guys were sent there to work for 5 years....It would take time to get used to,having everything de-energized.Id most likely say why cant this be done hot,because I was brought up that way.Yes it would be difficult at first,but Im sure Id get used to doing it their way,I might even say it was better,but as of now I couldnt tell you that.

Come on reppy! At least pose your "senario" questions with a "bit of Reality".

I would NEVER go Anywhere overseas for a 5 year contract...without a BUNCH of specific guarantees.

I worked 20 years overseas bud. In a country your a$$ couldn't even Imagine livin in.

I'm sorry. Sometimes...I just think your posts are ignorant. And you really don't think out your question before you post that stupid crap.

Sorry. It ain't personal. I just don't like "Stupid" siht.

I thought that post was stupid. "Just me".

[reppy007]

If you didnt really like stupid $hit,you would get rid of your mirrors ASAP.:D

[US & CA Tramp]

What is this?? Does Old Line Dog just "lurk around" as he would say just to start the OLDog & Reppy Comedy Show again??

[bren guzzi]

You two.... "GET A ROOM". :)

In answer to the Question....
I've worked in 8 countries "so far"
Not the States... I think any lineman can adapt to the situation they are in.
That's what we do Daily. No two days ( or jobs) are exactly the same. That's why we like it after all...
A little training and I think any lineman could learn a new technique.

Despite evidence to the contary.. Linemen tend to be quite inteligent.

[reppy007]

Maybe Im taking it toooo far,but here we go.....lets say your in a rual area,outside in the country and a customer has a bad clamp at the weatherhead,so you will need to replace it.Do you kill the transformer even though you would be taking others off during this period....from what I think I know, you would.....that would freak us out here if we did it that way each time it happened.But like you say....you learn how to adapt to the rules that are in place.

[bren guzzi]

Maybe Im taking it toooo far,but here we go.....lets say your in a rual area,outside in the country and a customer has a bad clamp at the weatherhead,so you will need to replace it.Do you kill the transformer even though you would be taking others off during this period....from what I think I know, you would.....that would freak us out here if we did it that way each time it happened.But like you say....you learn how to adapt to the rules that are in place.

We have different designs here Reppy.
We can isolate one customer at a time " in rural areas"
Each domestic customers property is fused so can be isolated at the fuse.
if it's closer to town and not individually fused. We would break the jumper to the property and replace ...
if it involves less than eight hours shut down.. We would " if required" notify them a week or so before hand and have a shut down...( eight hours is deemed the maximum time a freezer can be off without spoiling the food.) If it was un planed.( a fault) we would repair it with a short shutdown.. Customers understand if it's essential work.
and let's be honest..they wouldn't be off for too long...

[reppy007]

Thanks Bren,lots of info there with the fuses for each customer,and depending on the lineman it shouldnt take too long :D....but lets say a new lineman arrived and his name was reppy....well reppy likes to work everything hot and he does it hot........so is that a firing offense in some places that would suggest I am unsafe?

[bren guzzi]

Thanks Bren,lots of info there with the fuses for each customer,and depending on the lineman it shouldnt take too long :D....but lets say a new lineman arrived and his name was reppy....well reppy likes to work everything hot and he does it hot........so is that a firing offense in some places that would suggest I am unsafe?

When you see the answer to the hammer question you will KNOW FOR DEFINITE the answer to that Reppy.

[reppy007]

When you see the answer to the hammer question you will KNOW FOR DEFINITE the answer to that Reppy.

:D Im going to take that as a YES :D

[stulittle]

:D Im going to take that as a YES :D

Reppy,
We have the electricity at work act which in one of its parts makes it effectively illegal to work live unless there is no sensible way of doing it dead. (the real words are slightly different)

Anyway, if the method statement for the job (and every job has a method statement) says do it dead and you're caught doing it last live then your going "down the road"

Stu

[bren guzzi]

Reppy,
We have the electricity at work act which in one of its parts makes it effectively illegal to work live unless there is no sensible way of doing it dead. (the real words are slightly different)

Anyway, if the method statement for the job (and every job has a method statement) says do it dead and you're caught doing it last live then your going "down the road"

Stu

As said above...every job requires a method statement..( issued every morning with a rick assessment ).. If something changes during the day the risk assessment must be altered before continuing. We are not allowed spike poles if a bucket can possibly be used.
As regards the ". New hammers we got" the Scotish power enginer will now look at an old pole we are on or just off the pole and if he doesn't see the marks of the pole being hammer tested... We will be asked to leave site ...and never be allowed back on any Scotish power site......

they are reacting to a few incidents involving pole failures.

Basically it's safety first .... Or your down the road...

[Orgnizdlbr]

Reppy,
We have the electricity at work act which in one of its parts makes it effectively illegal to work live unless there is no sensible way of doing it dead. (the real words are slightly different)

Anyway, if the method statement for the job (and every job has a method statement) says do it dead and you're caught doing it last live then your going "down the road"

Stu

Define sensible..... Power companies here would have their panties in a wad and their lobbyists would throw huge $$$$$ at their senators and congressmen should any legislation like that arise in the states.

power companies attorneys would shred the language in the law if it contained the word sensible in the text .......

[Pootnaigle]

Umm the engineers theory iz flawed kause every pole shud be checked and a fairly new pole aint gonna show an impression frum yer smart hammer

[bren guzzi]

Define sensible..... Power companies here would have their panties in a wad and their lobbyists would throw huge $$$$$ at their senators and congressmen should any legislation like that arise in the states.

power companies attorneys would shred the language in the law if it contained the word sensible in the text .......

He was paraphrasing ... ( me an stu ain't no fancy lawyers..)

the law states that every reasonable effort must made by an employer to insure the employee,s safety.
I will scan one of our risk assessments an put it up..IT ACTUALLY STATES....THE PRIORITY FOR ACCESSING POLES IS.
1. MEWP ( bucket)
2. Scaffolding
3. Ladder
4. Spikes.

Its up up to me as a lineman to assess the risk...if I climb when a MEWP was available as an option I'm in trouble.. If I require a MEWP ..one will be supplied...
where it gets interesting is........ If " we" ask for the proper equipment ( that costs big bucks) The company will soon find a reason to lay you off..
it's a balancing act... " THE UN WRITTEN LAW"

[reppy007]

He was paraphrasing ... ( me an stu ain't no fancy lawyers..)

the law states that every reasonable effort must made by an employer to insure the employee,s safety.
I will scan one of our risk assessments an put it up..IT ACTUALLY STATES....THE PRIORITY FOR ACCESSING POLES IS.
1. MEWP ( bucket)
2. Scaffolding
3. Ladder
4. Spikes.

Its up up to me as a lineman to assess the risk...if I climb when a MEWP was available as an option I'm in trouble.. If I require a MEWP ..one will be supplied...
where it gets interesting is........ If " we" ask for the proper equipment ( that costs big bucks) The company will soon find a reason to lay you off..
it's a balancing act... " THE UN WRITTEN LAW"

And all my life....I thought we had it good :mad:....now with the hammer issue,ours were outlawed years ago,the wooden handle ones if I remember right......now Im asking myself how the heck can a hammer be dangerous when theres only a thousand of other ways to be injured in this trade.....beats me.

[reppy007]

Ok....lots of things we didnt know about how its done there....I wont say Im finished cause I want to ask about setting meters on a meter base and find out if thats allowed,I mean you do check for grounds before setting the meter and plugging it in.But I wont get into that small stuff,not now anyway......So the overhead part is kind of clear,now lets see how you guys do underground distribution....are you allowed to open a live urd transformer,and if not how can you check voltages inside,so here we go again...almost 100% of the time we hook homes up hot,with rubber gloves ofcourse.....we may walk out loops while they are energized to see if we can determine why one goes out frequently.We often use hotsticks for switching these loops around or isolating.....So the question appears to be how you guys do the urd in that area?

[Rob]

And all my life....I thought we had it good :mad:....now with the hammer issue,ours were outlawed years ago,the wooden handle ones if I remember right......now Im asking myself how the heck can a hammer be dangerous when theres only a thousand of other ways to be injured in this trade.....beats me.

We "outlawed" wooden handled hammers??? When did this happen??

[reppy007]

We "outlawed" wooden handled hammers??? When did this happen??

Good question...now were going back yeas ago....I want to say in the mid to late 80s.....I never understood why,must have had an accident of one type or another .....I thought it was stupid and still do,but I got over it.Lots of guys have the square type of heads on their hammers now,a little heavy.....but with fiberglass handles.

[reppy007]

Rob another thing that I didnt like was when they...being the company stopped buying those folding klien skinning knives,those brown handle ones,then they banned or got rid of the red square skinning knives,with a fiberglass handle...I liked those.They started buying the yellow roundish types of skinning knives,which I didnt care for at first.Who knows who makes those decisions,I surely dont.All I know is that he must like to ban things,maybe he hasnt met swamp yet,that wouldnt be a bad thing to ban as far as Im concerned.:D

[bren guzzi]

Ok....lots of things we didnt know about how its done there....I wont say Im finished cause I want to ask about setting meters on a meter base and find out if thats allowed,I mean you do check for grounds before setting the meter and plugging it in.But I wont get into that small stuff,not now anyway......So the overhead part is kind of clear,now lets see how you guys do underground distribution....are you allowed to open a live urd transformer,and if not how can you check voltages inside,so here we go again...almost 100% of the time we hook homes up hot,with rubber gloves ofcourse.....we may walk out loops while they are energized to see if we can determine why one goes out frequently.We often use hotsticks for switching these loops around or isolating.....So the question appears to be how you guys do the urd in that area?


Simple... We dont. :)

[bren guzzi]

Here's today's risk assessment .. We get at least one a day...we also get a work instruction document...plus a method statement..

it's an @rse covering exercise.....

[reppy007]

Here's today's risk assessment .. We get at least one a day...we also get a work instruction document...plus a method statement..

it's an @rse covering exercise.....

I know it has something about the weather conditions.....you know the line where you write down rainy...........

[Rob]

Good question...now were going back yeas ago....I want to say in the mid to late 80s.....I never understood why,must have had an accident of one type or another .....I thought it was stupid and still do,but I got over it.Lots of guys have the square type of heads on their hammers now,a little heavy.....but with fiberglass handles.

Up here we are still issued wooden handled hammers. We even have shovels with wooden handles.

[Rob]

Bren... That's similar to what we fill out over here. It's an OSHA requirement.

[paul maxwell]

Just to jump into the conversation in reply to reppys original question I have worked in the states 2001 with a company called irby construction in Jackson Mississippi we did some training first,then drivin license(learned to drive on the wrong side:))then headed out to site,the job was just north of little rock arkensaw and I must say we didn't have any trouble adapting this was transmission though,I never did get the chance to do some distribution work because the wife had our first born and it was home time for me:nightmare:,but I can honestly say with all the guys I have worked with I don't think many of them would have a problem adapting,I actually have some friends working in Canada just now and they are doing great no problems.although I have been looking at returning to the states(either Cali or Florida coz we have a lot of family in both areas)so you never know I may be making return soon and maybe able to prove that it is no problem:D

[Orgnizdlbr]

Here's today's risk assessment .. We get at least one a day...we also get a work instruction document...plus a method statement..

it's an @rse covering exercise.....


Similar to our tail boards...... As Rob said.....

[Orgnizdlbr]

Up here we are still issued wooden handled hammers. We even have shovels with wooden handles.

Yup, us too...... Can't climb with a hammer in your belt here....many years ago a guy fell off a pole, had the hammer in center tool loop of his belt, they said the hammer broke his back when he hit. They made everyone cut the center tool loop out on belts till they bought new ones without the loop......

[Pootnaigle]

Umm kaint even buy a belt withha centerloop in the back no more Prolly since the seventies

[Old Line Dog]

Yup, us too...... Can't climb with a hammer in your belt here....many years ago a guy fell off a pole, had the hammer in center tool loop of his belt, they said the hammer broke his back when he hit. They made everyone cut the center tool loop out on belts till they bought new ones without the loop......
Yup.

Nowdays the hammer loop is on the side of the belt...unless like Labor.... they have changed it again...to where ya can't even carry a hammer.

I sure don't know why not Labor. With the Fcuksqueeze...ya sure as siht ain't gonna fall!!!:D Besides....sendin up a hammer on the handline......****it man....that thing could fall off and HURT somebody!!!!!:D:D:D

[reppy007]

Guess the next thing that will happen in the trade will be called torture,when a lawyer has a client such as a helper complaining that some lineman made him use an old wooden handled tamp....and it was too hard for him :nightmare:

[BigClive]

I think initially we'd all just stand there looking at your electrical system and saying things like "Well that's not really been designed for easy maintenance and built in redundancy." Then the American gaffer would come over and start shouting "WOOOO! Get up there and start working LIVE! WOOO! God Bless America! Get on up there hero's 'cos we gotta keep those meters turning to ensure the opulent lives of the utility management are maintained despite they fact they could give a sh1t if we die."
And we'd be all like "WOOO! YEAHHH! Git on up and BAREHAND for no really obvious reason other than because we're REAL MEN and HERO's.

And one of the American linemen would go up and a wire would pop off a broken insulator and he would like totally go BOOM! and dangle from his belt like a ragdoll and the gaffer would be all like "WHOOOO it's time to be a hero with hurtman rescue and sh1t." And I'd be like "Why is there no defibrillator in your cab?" And then the gaffer would bring down the smouldering corpse and all the other linemen would be like "WHOOOO! He died a HERO. GOD needed another lineman in heaven so he reached down and picked him up." (Despite the fact that overhead lines are totally incompatible with flying angels with metal coated harps.)

And me and the other guys would be like "Really?"

[Orgnizdlbr]

I think initially we'd all just stand there looking at your electrical system and saying things like "Well that's not really been designed for easy maintenance and built in redundancy." Then the American gaffer would come over and start shouting "WOOOO! Get up there and start working LIVE! WOOO! God Bless America! Get on up there hero's 'cos we gotta keep those meters turning to ensure the opulent lives of the utility management are maintained despite they fact they could give a sh1t if we die."
And we'd be all like "WOOO! YEAHHH! Git on up and BAREHAND for no really obvious reason other than because we're REAL MEN and HERO's.

And one of the American linemen would go up and a wire would pop off a broken insulator and he would like totally go BOOM! and dangle from his belt like a ragdoll and the gaffer would be all like "WHOOOO it's time to be a hero with hurtman rescue and sh1t." And I'd be like "Why is there no defibrillator in your cab?" And then the gaffer would bring down the smouldering corpse and all the other linemen would be like "WHOOOO! He died a HERO. GOD needed another lineman in heaven so he reached down and picked him up." (Despite the fact that overhead lines are totally incompatible with flying angels with metal coated harps.)

And me and the other guys would be like "Really?"

Not a hero Clyde, nor a cowboy, another term I've heard used..... Just another lineman doing a job, and proud to do it I might add......

[Lineman North Florida]

I think initially we'd all just stand there looking at your electrical system and saying things like "Well that's not really been designed for easy maintenance and built in redundancy." Then the American gaffer would come over and start shouting "WOOOO! Get up there and start working LIVE! WOOO! God Bless America! Get on up there hero's 'cos we gotta keep those meters turning to ensure the opulent lives of the utility management are maintained despite they fact they could give a sh1t if we die."
And we'd be all like "WOOO! YEAHHH! Git on up and BAREHAND for no really obvious reason other than because we're REAL MEN and HERO's.

And one of the American linemen would go up and a wire would pop off a broken insulator and he would like totally go BOOM! and dangle from his belt like a ragdoll and the gaffer would be all like "WHOOOO it's time to be a hero with hurtman rescue and sh1t." And I'd be like "Why is there no defibrillator in your cab?" And then the gaffer would bring down the smouldering corpse and all the other linemen would be like "WHOOOO! He died a HERO. GOD needed another lineman in heaven so he reached down and picked him up." (Despite the fact that overhead lines are totally incompatible with flying angels with metal coated harps.)

And me and the other guys would be like "Really?"

Just another sickening post.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm I bleve we haznt made a good impression on clive I RECKON THATS BETTER THAN makin a false impression like DENVER Lotta hype n no game

[reppy007]

Actually he posted what he thought,and thats good.....maybe we do need to think about it,maybe not.....even if we wanted to work differently our management wouldnt listen.....not these days anyway.Remember we are a society that worships the mighty $$$$$$$$$$$$:(

[BigClive]

Nah. My post was just teasing based on the fact that Americans are so traditionally quite loud and exuberant. (But we actually LOVE America for that very reason.)

There is a bit of truth to my post though. In the UK we have a system that was developed with a bit of pre-thought and as a result it has built in redundancy so that areas can be isolated as desired without causing too much disruption. Although live work is done it is avoided wherever possible simply because the risk of an electrically induced fatality or severe life changing injuries are much higher when working live. It's not cowardice. It's common sense.

In the UK we're not hero's. We're just doing our jobs.

What really pisses me off about America is that you guys are pretty much exploited by corporate organisations that encourage live work on over-pushed lines purely as a cost saving measure and then have utter contempt for those injured or killed as a result. Here in the UK an injured worker gets priority health treatment at NO COST and if the injuries are incapacitating then financial support will be given by the state. It's based on the simple concept that the people of a country are more productive if they are cared for. That will probably change in the future though, since American corporate mentality is gradually destroying the UK.

[reppy007]

Nah. My post was just teasing based on the fact that Americans are so traditionally quite loud and exuberant. (But we actually LOVE America for that very reason.)

There is a bit of truth to my post though. In the UK we have a system that was developed with a bit of pre-thought and as a result it has built in redundancy so that areas can be isolated as desired without causing too much disruption. Although live work is done it is avoided wherever possible simply because the risk of an electrically induced fatality or severe life changing injuries are much higher when working live. It's not cowardice. It's common sense.

In the UK we're not hero's. We're just doing our jobs.

What really pisses me off about America is that you guys are pretty much exploited by corporate organisations that encourage live work on over-pushed lines purely as a cost saving measure and then have utter contempt for those injured or killed as a result. Here in the UK an injured worker gets priority health treatment at NO COST and if the injuries are incapacitating then financial support will be given by the state. It's based on the simple concept that the people of a country are more productive if they are cared for. That will probably change in the future though, since American corporate mentality is gradually destroying the UK.

Well said Clivester,we are exploited and dont even seem to know it.If it pays well,thats all we understand and when they say safety first we believe that too,even though its actually money first.....sad but true.If theres a doubt,guys should attend a shareholders meeting and if you hear the word (safety) your not in a shareholders meeting :D

[Old Line Dog]

Well said Clivester,we are exploited and dont even seem to know it.If it pays well,thats all we understand and when they say safety first we believe that too,even though its actually money first.....sad but true.If theres a doubt,guys should attend a shareholders meeting and if you hear the word (safety) your not in a shareholders meeting :D

You agree with Clive so much...you should move over there...and participate in their health care system reppy.

Yup...we 'mericans are so "exploited"....
That's why everybody in the world wants to "Move to 'merica'! So THEY can be "exploited" too!

Heh, heh, heh....

[reppy007]

I will move over there,do they have MTV,I have MTV at this retirement home.:)

[bren guzzi]

We have MTV an aload of other "sh1te " TV... Don't worry you can keep up with the Kardashians...........

[Rob]

Nah. My post was just teasing based on the fact that Americans are so traditionally quite loud and exuberant. (But we actually LOVE America for that very reason.)

There is a bit of truth to my post though. In the UK we have a system that was developed with a bit of pre-thought and as a result it has built in redundancy so that areas can be isolated as desired without causing too much disruption. Although live work is done it is avoided wherever possible simply because the risk of an electrically induced fatality or severe life changing injuries are much higher when working live. It's not cowardice. It's common sense.

In the UK we're not hero's. We're just doing our jobs.

What really pisses me off about America is that you guys are pretty much exploited by corporate organisations that encourage live work on over-pushed lines purely as a cost saving measure and then have utter contempt for those injured or killed as a result. Here in the UK an injured worker gets priority health treatment at NO COST and if the injuries are incapacitating then financial support will be given by the state. It's based on the simple concept that the people of a country are more productive if they are cared for. That will probably change in the future though, since American corporate mentality is gradually destroying the UK.

I don't think American Lineman feel exploited by anyone...I haven't met any that have. We knew what the job was when we signed up. The drop out rate is fairly high and I don't believe it has anything to do with working on energized lines. Most never make it that far.
It's usually the heights that they aren't comfortable with. Knowing that, I take nothing away from the Lineman (Linesman) of the UK. Different place... Different System.
The majority of Us like what we do, make a bit of money and work as safely as we can with the system we have.