Does anyone understand why we are bonding guys even with glass rods?

[bobbo]

This is my second property where we bond the guys. With NG you bond in the air with a bond to first bare part below the rod. Which I don't understand especially with that gay squeeze. Then other properties you drive a rod in the vicinity near the anchor and tap to the bottom of the tail.

Now that guy is going to be ground potential with the anchor if it has good tension and use a preform instead of those automatic attachments. Is it for cathodic protection?- like bridges. Or are they using it as alternative path to ground for equipment, or another bond to make the neutral more ground potential?

Now the ***** clamps, or that neutral clamp thing instead of neutral glass for the neutral? The Canucks did that so when they grounded they would not have to put a pole band on. When they grounded, instead of neutral to pole band then to phases for equipotential. They would ground to the bolt sticking out if they used that clamp to the phases. But I don't believe the bolt is designed for current you would think?

Can you tell their motive for bonding guys and clamps instead of glass for neutrals?

And say you dead end one side with open wire, then dead end the other side with no glass, aren't you creating a hazard for the next man?

I know a lot of people die pulling guys in corridors. I hear stories once a year about one pulling a guy and getting from the guy tail through his body to the rod. But bonding the guy in the air would be your last step, because pulling the guy has to be done first before bonding.

As for public safety, if you bond the guy to ground then you would probably have to bond the rod also? But forget I suggest that then we would have more shot to do.

Someone enlighten me what is the reason?

[lewy]

We always put at least 1 5' glass rod at the primary fitting and we wil run multiple glass rods through the primary as compared to using a strut guy to go over the primary like they do in Florida, I will post a picture later. We never bond our guys to the neutral. We only install a hubbard clamp on our neutrals no glass. I have seen them a little in my travels in the states, some in Florida, but they use glass spools more. I prefer the hubbard to the spool it helps with bonding the pole and I see no advantage to isolating the neutral from the pole and likely you have messenger below that is clamped directly to your pole and periodally boneded to your sytem neutral anyway. When it comes to applying grounds we never use the bolt, but always apply our ground to the neutral as you are correct the bolt is not designed for fault current.

[thrasher]

I can't speak for everyone's practice but at all Coops that I know or have worked with you run the neutral on porcelain to cut down on radio noise. A heavily loaded neutral , like a long single phase tap, laying directly on the steel will move some and make AM radio noise. That's why a lineman runs a bond wire from the pole ground to the neutral and then to the guy wire below the guy insulator so that everything is bonded together at ground level and the public can't be exposed to a voltage difference. BTW I have seen a 15 volt difference between the pole ground and an unbounded guy wire near a railroad track. We actually drew sparks when we bonded the guy to the pole. You also mentioned bonding the guy wire to the anchor rod Coops do this with a bolt clamp thru the eye of the rod, don't know your slang for the clamp we call them monkey balls.

[Lineman North Florida]

Where I'm at if a guy is in the primary zone it gets a guy breaker or 2 or however many it takes to get it below the primary zone, it also gets bonded to the pole ground, no grounds at the anchor and no grounds on secondary guys, neutral tied in on insulator spools, neutrals deadended on eyebolts, neutral bonded to pole ground at every pole,just company specs.

[lewy]

A couple of questions when you dead end neutrals on an eye bolt do you also use an insulator? If not why do you only insulate tangent poles and not dead end poles? When you bond your neutral to your pole ground are you not shorting out your spool insulator? As far as radio interference we have never had a problem with our Hubbard neutral clamps, mainly with loosely tied primary or cracked insulators.

[US & CA Tramp]

Remember that a good ground is one that is 25 ohms or less. In areas that it is hard to reach the 25 ohms some utilities have chosen to bond everything in hopes of lowering the over all resistance to the 25 ohms or less like REA's. Some places choose to insulate everything to isolate conductors instead of trying to meet the 25 ohms or less. Neither of the two ways is fool proof. There are good points and bad points to each method. These two methods follow the same rule as "work it hot or ground it dead". Hope this helps.:rolleyes:

[bobbo]

Remember that a good ground is one that is 25 ohms or less. In areas that it is hard to reach the 25 ohms some utilities have chosen to bond everything in hopes of lowering the over all resistance to the 25 ohms or less like REA's. Some places choose to insulate everything to isolate conductors instead of trying to meet the 25 ohms or less. Neither of the two ways is fool proof. There are good points and bad points to each method. These two methods follow the same rule as "work it hot or ground it dead". Hope this helps.:rolleyes:

I try to figure out why companies do the things they do. There was one utility that changed their guy spec 4 times in three months. And what's the purpose of things that make no sense?

[reppy007]

I try to figure out why companies do the things they do. There was one utility that changed their guy spec 4 times in three months. And what's the purpose of things that make no sense?

For some utilities if it made sense it wouldnt have a purpose....does that make sense?:nightmare:

[lewy]

Remember that a good ground is one that is 25 ohms or less. In areas that it is hard to reach the 25 ohms some utilities have chosen to bond everything in hopes of lowering the over all resistance to the 25 ohms or less like REA's. Some places choose to insulate everything to isolate conductors instead of trying to meet the 25 ohms or less. Neither of the two ways is fool proof. There are good points and bad points to each method. These two methods follow the same rule as "work it hot or ground it dead". Hope this helps.:rolleyes:

We only install a pole ground if their is a transformer on the pole(#4)or if the pole is a riser(1/0), but if it was up to me we would install one at every pole. Either way I don't see what that has to do on wether you isolate your neutral, when climbing over the neutral we don't worry about touching it and if it was insulated it could possibly be at a different potential, but having said that we use to insulate our neutrals and never had an issue. I still prefer the hubbard clamp, I find it stronger, easier (no tie wire) and it helps to bond your neutral to the pole.

[rob8210]

When I worked in the states we bonded down guys to the neutral, the thing I did not like was the fact that it introduced a ground potential into a work zone when working live primary. I do not accept a ground potential in my work zone when working live , its a deadly second point of contact. Depending on where we work , some utilities will use 1 glass rod in a primary down guy and some will use glass rods to get below the neutral. The concept of using the down guy to help lower the ohm reading of a ground is iffy. If that is a problem it would make more sense to either use larger down ground wire and multiple ground rods, or plates. Also we use a guy strain insulator installed 6 to 8 feet below the neutral , to protect the public. I was just thinking , by bonding the guy steel to the neutral and a down ground , then attaching it to the ground rod, wouldn't the possibility of a circulating current exist especially in higher voltage construction due to induction ? The same idea as a circulating current can exist with bracket grounding when there is another circuit inducing a charge on the grounded circuit.

[US & CA Tramp]

I agree with Rob and Lewy on the issues, and in some areas multiple ground rods are driven and connected together until the ohm reading is at the 25 or less. As far as working around it live, according what I have been taught and the regs, the neutral is another current carrying conductor, so if you are working hot you are suppose to treat it like any other energized conductor. We all know safety rules are broken every day, and I am just as guilty as the next guy, but we except the risks. As for why different utilities have different specs and why, it is called engineers, and when they design something they don't think about you or I, nor do they give a s__t about our safety, safety is our job.

[bobbo]

When I worked in the states we bonded down guys to the neutral, the thing I did not like was the fact that it introduced a ground potential into a work zone when working live primary. I do not accept a ground potential in my work zone when working live , its a deadly second point of contact. Depending on where we work , some utilities will use 1 glass rod in a primary down guy and some will use glass rods to get below the neutral. The concept of using the down guy to help lower the ohm reading of a ground is iffy. If that is a problem it would make more sense to either use larger down ground wire and multiple ground rods, or plates. Also we use a guy strain insulator installed 6 to 8 feet below the neutral , to protect the public. I was just thinking , by bonding the guy steel to the neutral and a down ground , then attaching it to the ground rod, wouldn't the possibility of a circulating current exist especially in higher voltage construction due to induction ? The same idea as a circulating current can exist with bracket grounding when there is another circuit inducing a charge on the grounded circuit.

D 20 years ago we used to glove 7200 12470 off the pole. We put up a heavy ground molding stick in case we gaffed the ground. I the same thought, why put a bond where you are working at? Then with that squeeze thing that is mandated you have rebelt three times to get over a piece of copper to the guys.

We went on storm to this property, they issued fish rods and Johnny balls. But when you went to fix anything all over their guying was bonded over. Jumper over Johnny balls then topside of the guy was bonded to the ground. So why did they issue all these Strain rods and Johnny balls when they bond it solid everywhere? Guying specs have no consistency any where. Protecting the public should be first concern, protecting the worker second concern ... But I don't understand the inconsistency?

[rob8210]

Bobbo and Tramp, I do not understand why its this way either, I just put it down to different engineers with different ideas. Of course a lot of the engineering today doesn't seem to have anything to do with common sense. An example , guying a pole with less than 45 degree angle in the line.

[lewy]

Bobbo and Tramp, I do not understand why its this way either, I just put it down to different engineers with different ideas. Of course a lot of the engineering today doesn't seem to have anything to do with common sense. An example , guying a pole with less than 45 degree angle in the line.

" An example , guying a pole with less than 45 degree angle in the line." ?

[thrasher]

I'm with you; if you are putting a in a guy insulator why would you bond to the guy ABOVE the insulator? The places I have been the bond is made to the guy below the insulator, which is supposed to be at or near to the level of the neutral. Therefore you don't carry ground above neutral unless you have crossarm mounted arrestors. Even then you run the ground on underside of arms and your routine blankets cover the arms while working in the area.

[SBatts]

I'm with you; if you are putting a in a guy insulator why would you bond to the guy ABOVE the insulator? The places I have been the bond is made to the guy below the insulator, which is supposed to be at or near to the level of the neutral. Therefore you don't carry ground above neutral unless you have crossarm mounted arrestors. Even then you run the ground on underside of arms and your routine blankets cover the arms while working in the area.
All Bonded hardware, including guy hardware above the insulated fiber strain, is mostly done to prevent hardware caused fires in high humid areas. I have grounded all hardware on some utilities property even 2400/4160. I have also worked property LADWP that doesn't case ground distribution transformers, and then covers up transformer hanger bolts with little fiber Strain. They also pay me journeyman lineman's pay to nail little yellow high voltage signs on crossarms.

Idiot Language Police blocked the word STRAIN

[rob8210]

My point, Lewy is you very rarely if ever see semi-strain guying anymore.

[bluepointpowerman]

Per the NESC anchor and span guys must be either insulated or grounded to protect persons on the ground should they become disconnected from their anchors and sag into an energized conductor or part. For years most electric utilities ground guys at the pole to satisfy this requirement. Over the years utilities started placing guy insulators (usually fiberglass rods at the tops of guys to provide greater BIL (Basic Impulse Level - bascially a indicator of dielectric strength) for protection against lighting. If insulators are used they must be positioned in the guy soo that if the guy slack down on an energized conductor or tap, the lowwer 8' of the guy must not become energized. Its complicated but sometimes this requires multiple insulators. To avoid this, some companies ground the guy below the guy insultor.


This is my second property where we bond the guys. With NG you bond in the air with a bond to first bare part below the rod. Which I don't understand especially with that gay squeeze. Then other properties you drive a rod in the vicinity near the anchor and tap to the bottom of the tail.

Now that guy is going to be ground potential with the anchor if it has good tension and use a preform instead of those automatic attachments. Is it for cathodic protection?- like bridges. Or are they using it as alternative path to ground for equipment, or another bond to make the neutral more ground potential?

Now the ***** clamps, or that neutral clamp thing instead of neutral glass for the neutral? The Canucks did that so when they grounded they would not have to put a pole band on. When they grounded, instead of neutral to pole band then to phases for equipotential. They would ground to the bolt sticking out if they used that clamp to the phases. But I don't believe the bolt is designed for current you would think?

Can you tell their motive for bonding guys and clamps instead of glass for neutrals?

And say you dead end one side with open wire, then dead end the other side with no glass, aren't you creating a hazard for the next man?

I know a lot of people die pulling guys in corridors. I hear stories once a year about one pulling a guy and getting from the guy tail through his body to the rod. But bonding the guy in the air would be your last step, because pulling the guy has to be done first before bonding.

As for public safety, if you bond the guy to ground then you would probably have to bond the rod also? But forget I suggest that then we would have more shot to do.

Someone enlighten me what is the reason?

[bobbo]

Per the NESC anchor and span guys must be either insulated or grounded to protect persons on the ground should they become disconnected from their anchors and sag into an energized conductor or part. For years most electric utilities ground guys at the pole to satisfy this requirement. Over the years utilities started placing guy insulators (usually fiberglass rods at the tops of guys to provide greater BIL (Basic Impulse Level - bascially a indicator of dielectric strength) for protection against lighting. If insulators are used they must be positioned in the guy soo that if the guy slack down on an energized conductor or tap, the lowwer 8' of the guy must not become energized. Its complicated but sometimes this requires multiple insulators. To avoid this, some companies ground the guy below the guy insultor.

So the glass rod at the top is not for the linemans protection but for to protect against lightning? Then below that should protect the public, either insulate it 8 to 10 feet from the rod or completely ground it? Per NESC. Where does the lineman fit in all this?

If I was just a guy that could write the NESC. For public protection, Johnny ball 10' from the rod. And for my or my brothers protection glass rod with 12 footers to clear the phases. And link more rods if you got transmission and a lot of under build.

And coo ps can do whatever they deem desirable because I haven't seen any transmission, multiple circuits. When they have dead ends they are not in the way of the climbing side. But I would change if they do get double circuits. But I just see they usually just rebuild and put bigger wire.

That's my perfect world. Because I think it's stupid too gut guys or have a grounded guy in your work area. Maybe link fishing rods till your ten feet from the ground and then we don't have to Carry those heavy coils of guy wire!

[Old Line Dog]

I think this thread is sorta funny.
We can debate the actual "relivance" of the procedure, all we want...

Ya do it...cause it's SPEC. THAT is the way your company wants you to build it.:D

I learned a LONG time ago, as a contractor....I'm a Hired gun. I do and build the way the people that are payin me to work on their system want me to work..

"Have Tools...Will Travel". The Way...it USE to be.....

Before I got old and ****...and Retired!!!:D

[bobbo]

All Bonded hardware, including guy hardware above the insulated fiber strain, is mostly done to prevent hardware caused fires in high humid areas. I have grounded all hardware on some utilities property even 2400/4160. I have also worked property LADWP that doesn't case ground distribution transformers, and then covers up transformer hanger bolts with little fiber Strain. They also pay me journeyman lineman's pay to nail little yellow high voltage signs on crossarms.

Idiot Language Police blocked the word STRAIN


In California delta 4800 or even the higher delta. Never grounded the can. You would work it assuming the pot was hot. And to break load you break the secondaries not open the cut out. I know they do things way different. But california gives you great experience.

[bobbo]

I think this thread is sorta funny.
We can debate the actual "relivance" of the procedure, all we want...

Ya do it...cause it's SPEC. THAT is the way your company wants you to build it.:D

I learned a LONG time ago, as a contractor....I'm a Hired gun. I do and build the way the people that are payin me to work on their system want me to work..

"Have Tools...Will Travel". The Way...it USE to be.....

Before I got old and ****...and Retired!!!:D

On storm we really screw up these systems. You can see it. One pole will have a straight guy. Another pole will have a glass rod at the open wire. Then the other pole will have 3 Johnny balls jumper end over with copper wire and kearneys. See push guys backing up not a single thing and why it's there. Then you get a spec and with no pictures and it has all these scenarios and conditions, then you have to rebuild and you follow it. Then you go down the street and see the same structure and it's backward from what you have. It's frustrating. Then one inspector tells you something entirely different.

[bobbo]

Where I'm at if a guy is in the primary zone it gets a guy breaker or 2 or however many it takes to get it below the primary zone, it also gets bonded to the pole ground, no grounds at the anchor and no grounds on secondary guys, neutral tied in on insulator spools, neutrals deadended on eyebolts, neutral bonded to pole ground at every pole,just company specs.

That makes sense!

[lewy]

This is typical guying for a corner for us.

[bobbo]

This is typical guying for a corner for us.

How big the wire? Are you in canada? I see in canada they are going to a lot of vertical. And building really strong. In US we build half ass because our utilities are publicly owned and management is unknowledgeable and unaccountable. Not many people work here, they like the nice logo on their truck, big pay checks and titles they don't earn. And forget the egoes, let's say dynamic!

[gumbo]

In California delta 4800 or even the higher delta. Never grounded the can. You would work it assuming the pot was hot. And to break load you break the secondaries not open the cut out. I know they do things way different. But california gives you great experience.

There is very little delta primary in California. Only in the oil patch or maybe in Long Beach if they have any of that 50 hertz left. They actually run an ungrounded Y system. Called a "phantom Y". They use bolt covers on Tx bolts because the case can come hot. If anyone needs proof.....drive down the road in Cali and look for a subdivision with underground. You will notice a nuetral on the overhead feeding it 20 spans each way and ground rods on each pole. This is the ground grid for the underground Txs which will be hooked Y. If you need further proof.....get a set of high voltage meters and go up a Tx pole. You can get two high voltage readings. One on the Tx bushings phase to phase and then go phase to ground on the pole ground. On a delta system there would be no phase to ground relationship.

[gumbo]

D 20 years ago we used to glove 7200 12470 off the pole. We put up a heavy ground molding stick in case we gaffed the ground. I the same thought, why put a bond where you are working at? Then with that squeeze thing that is mandated you have rebelt three times to get over a piece of copper to the guys.

We went on storm to this property, they issued fish rods and Johnny balls. But when you went to fix anything all over their guying was bonded over. Jumper over Johnny balls then topside of the guy was bonded to the ground. So why did they issue all these Strain rods and Johnny balls when they bond it solid everywhere? Guying specs have no consistency any where. Protecting the public should be first concern, protecting the worker second concern ... But I don't understand the inconsistency?
This wouldn't happen to have been on Illinois Ameren property would it? I've been on crews that went around for weeks ad cut in fiber links and isolated grounds just to be told to go back on the very same poles and reground and jumper over the same links we just installed. And we weren't the only crew doing this. Hundreds and hundreds of poles. All according to PUC mandates.

[lewy]

How big the wire? Are you in canada? I see in canada they are going to a lot of vertical. And building really strong. In US we build half ass because our utilities are publicly owned and management is unknowledgeable and unaccountable. Not many people work here, they like the nice logo on their truck, big pay checks and titles they don't earn. And forget the egoes, let's say dynamic!

The phases are 556 alum and the neutral is 336 ACSR tensioned with 266 lashed. We build almost entirely vertical, all most all new construction is on the road and vertical construct is easier to work live and I think it looks better, the only downside is it requires taller poles. Yes I am in Canada.

[bobbo]

There is very little delta primary in California. Only in the oil patch or maybe in Long Beach if they have any of that 50 hertz left. They actually run an ungrounded Y system. Called a "phantom Y". They use bolt covers on Tx bolts because the case can come hot. If anyone needs proof.....drive down the road in Cali and look for a subdivision with underground. You will notice a nuetral on the overhead feeding it 20 spans each way and ground rods on each pole. This is the ground grid for the underground Txs which will be hooked Y. If you need further proof.....get a set of high voltage meters and go up a Tx pole. You can get two high voltage readings. One on the Tx bushings phase to phase and then go phase to ground on the pole ground. On a delta system there would be no phase to ground relationship.

Edison was wye 2400/4160 12kv 16 kv. Dwp 4800 delta. Glendale converted to wye. But I don't think the others converted to wye. Edison has two cut outs for each single phase can on the 12.If that was true what you are saying, Everyman is hi potting the primary when they open the can. If they have a phantom wye why is their 2 cut outs per can? 2 cut outs means delta. Why do they have an insulator on the middle to hold the delta leg jumper on the 12. I have only worked California for ten years. Everyman on this site knows two cut outs on the single phase is delta. How does your phantom wye work? Because I have only see a neutral on the secondary ever. The 16 might have your phantom wye? Never tapped to it. And what part of California? I really don't give a **** about meter. If you have a delta leg primary jumper on an insulator to tie the outside bushings, and on single phase have two cut outs and you read the data plate on the can and install a delta can? How is it a phantom wye? And the reason you wear your gloves when you handle the can because there are two guys I know of where they don't have arms because the coils hit the tank and went to ground with their bodies? Put your phantom wye up your ass!

[bobbo]

This wouldn't happen to have been on Illinois Ameren property would it? I've been on crews that went around for weeks ad cut in fiber links and isolated grounds just to be told to go back on the very same poles and reground and jumper over the same links we just installed. And we weren't the only crew doing this. Hundreds and hundreds of poles. All according to PUC mandates.

Supposedly the NESC quoted earlier no protection for us! It's about the system. That's retarded don't you think. I am going to ask for copper clad guy wire and slam it through the phases to get our 25 ohms. Screw Johnny balls and fish rods. Bombs away!

[bobbo]

The phases are 556 alum and the neutral is 336 ACSR tensioned with 266 lashed. We build almost entirely vertical, all most all new construction is on the road and vertical construct is easier to work live and I think it looks better, the only downside is it requires taller poles. Yes I am in Canada.

I love canada their **** is clean there poles are straight. It makes America look like a dump. Why you are so good is your public owned. You make the investments. You follow are NESC better than we do and we write the manual. The only **** part is the box construction I have seen near Chinatown in Toronto. Of course it's probably in more places. That gay bussing for secondary across that box ****. Looks like ****! Looks like a pain in the ass to work with. I would work with it but it looks like a turd.

[lewy]

I love canada their **** is clean there poles are straight. It makes America look like a dump. Why you are so good is your public owned. You make the investments. You follow are NESC better than we do and we write the manual. The only **** part is the box construction I have seen near Chinatown in Toronto. Of course it's probably in more places. That gay bussing for secondary across that box ****. Looks like ****! Looks like a pain in the ass to work with. I would work with it but it looks like a turd.

I think that "box construction" is unique to Toronto,but I could be wrong. They had been building things that way for a real long time, but I think they are starting to phase it out. I have never worked it and really dont want too and I think it looks like a dogs breakfast.

[gumbo]

Edison was wye 2400/4160 12kv 16 kv. Dwp 4800 delta. Glendale converted to wye. But I don't think the others converted to wye. Edison has two cut outs for each single phase can on the 12.If that was true what you are saying, Everyman is hi potting the primary when they open the can. If they have a phantom wye why is their 2 cut outs per can? 2 cut outs means delta. Why do they have an insulator on the middle to hold the delta leg jumper on the 12. I have only worked California for ten years. Everyman on this site knows two cut outs on the single phase is delta. How does your phantom wye work? Because I have only see a neutral on the secondary ever. The 16 might have your phantom wye? Never tapped to it. And what part of California? I really don't give a **** about meter. If you have a delta leg primary jumper on an insulator to tie the outside bushings, and on single phase have two cut outs and you read the data plate on the can and install a delta can? How is it a phantom wye? And the reason you wear your gloves when you handle the can because there are two guys I know of where they don't have arms because the coils hit the tank and went to ground with their bodies? Put your phantom wye up your ass!

whatever dude!! Did my apprenticeship in southern Cal and took plenty of money off guys like you. Read the transformer tags. That can will work if it gets what it's made for. "Phantom Y" uses an earth return. You can use a phase to phase connection on a wye system my friend. It's a delta hook up, but doesn't change the fact of it being a wye system. I've been paying dues to 1245 since 1983. Changed my ticket to 47 in 2005. I've worked all over that state from Chula Vista to San Fransisco. L.A. to Parumph, Nevada. I don't get out there much anymore but I have been there and done that. Sorry to hear about your buddies accidents, but having knowledge of what you're working on and not guessing will take you far. And if you don't like that, I guess you know what you can do to my a$$. If you understand your basic theory, you'll give the voltage meters a try. Only one voltage available on delta--two on wye. Till you try that you will remain clueless, I don't care how many years you work in California. Old linemen and bold linemen. No old, bold linemen, you know. Have a good day bobbo. :cool:

[bobbo]

whatever dude!! Did my apprenticeship in southern Cal and took plenty of money off guys like you. Read the transformer tags. That can will work if it gets what it's made for. "Phantom Y" uses an earth return. You can use a phase to phase connection on a wye system my friend. It's a delta hook up, but doesn't change the fact of it being a wye system. I've been paying dues to 1245 since 1983. Changed my ticket to 47 in 2005. I've worked all over that state from Chula Vista to San Fransisco. L.A. to Parumph, Nevada. I don't get out there much anymore but I have been there and done that. Sorry to hear about your buddies accidents, but having knowledge of what you're working on and not guessing will take you far. And if you don't like that, I guess you know what you can do to my a$$. If you understand your basic theory, you'll give the voltage meters a try. Only one voltage available on delta--two on wye. Till you try that you will remain clueless, I don't care how many years you work in California. Old linemen and bold linemen. No old, bold linemen, you know. Have a good day bobbo. :cool:

Bushings is delta for a bank. That's all I worked with there. I saw and worked with very little wye. Never grounded a can there. There was a guy who walked a round with no arm in the 90 s who said he got it by grabbing an energized pot and the coils shorted to the side of the tank that's the first thing that every foreman would say to you in every yard put your gloves on before you touch that can. If you have no case ground that's possible. Most of the municipals and much of Edison was delta, and my primary harness for every can or bank was wired delta. That's all I can tell you. And the center can always had that insulator attached for the delta leg. You might be right they could have converted and cutover a lot, but when I go there I still see two cut outs for single phase pots. I don't see a neutral strung and I know they don't use common neutrals. And I apologize when you work an area for a long time and somebody says you are wrong, that can irk anyone. The only thing I worked with was delta there. And you might work in an area that was wye. I didn't get to work in the nice suburbs, but had to work the ghettos.

[gumbo]

Bushings is delta for a bank. That's all I worked with there. I saw and worked with very little wye. Never grounded a can there. There was a guy who walked a round with no arm in the 90 s who said he got it by grabbing an energized pot and the coils shorted to the side of the tank that's the first thing that every foreman would say to you in every yard put your gloves on before you touch that can. If you have no case ground that's possible. Most of the municipals and much of Edison was delta, and my primary harness for every can or bank was wired delta. That's all I can tell you. And the center can always had that insulator attached for the delta leg. You might be right they could have converted and cutover a lot, but when I go there I still see two cut outs for single phase pots. I don't see a neutral strung and I know they don't use common neutrals. And I apologize when you work an area for a long time and somebody says you are wrong, that can irk anyone. The only thing I worked with was delta there. And you might work in an area that was wye. I didn't get to work in the nice suburbs, but had to work the ghettos.

No apology neccessary bobbo. Shoot, go look at a sub. Trace the bus. If it's delta, those transformers will be hooked phase to phase as well. If it's a wye--they'll be one can to a phase and a tie to ground. It's a confusing and ignorant way to build a system but that is what they've built. Have you ever noticed all the cap banks they have installed at the end of radial lines in Cali? Most power companies use them to increase voltage down the line from a cap bank. Putting them at the end of the line seems pointless, right? Edison uses this to increase power factor upstream. Don't feel like the lone ranger, I've worked in Compton, Watts, Montebello, and ghettos in about every city in Southern Cal. It's where the job is. As a final thought on their phase to phase hookups on a nuetralless wye system--I believe it was a cost saving experiment during voltage conversion. Saved them one hell of a lot of wire. This experiment has gone horribly wrong but it works. How, with no moisture in the ground on a bed of decomposing granite they get their return........well.......it makes one wonder why they don't build line where there is water table like that. One of the mysteries of life I'll probably never know the answer to.

[rob8210]

I have worked a bit on that boxed arm construction in Toronto, and yes they are phasing it out and converting to 13.8kv, but its gonna take a lot of years. That construction isn't unique to Toronto, other places had it and its been pretty much eliminated now. It isn't that hard once you figure it out but it certainly looks like a dogs breakfast.

[lewy]

This is a pic of Toronto's box construction only on their 4 kv. Likely being converted to 13kv.

[bluepointpowerman]

So the glass rod at the top is not for the linemans protection but for to protect against lightning? Then below that should protect the public, either insulate it 8 to 10 feet from the rod or completely ground it? Per NESC. Where does the lineman fit in all this?

If I was just a guy that could write the NESC. For public protection, Johnny ball 10' from the rod. And for my or my brothers protection glass rod with 12 footers to clear the phases. And link more rods if you got transmission and a lot of under build.

And coo ps can do whatever they deem desirable because I haven't seen any transmission, multiple circuits. When they have dead ends they are not in the way of the climbing side. But I would change if they do get double circuits. But I just see they usually just rebuild and put bigger wire.

That's my perfect world. Because I think it's stupid too gut guys or have a grounded guy in your work area. Maybe link fishing rods till your ten feet from the ground and then we don't have to Carry those heavy coils of guy wire!

Obviously, if there is a grounded guy in your work area, it needs to be rubbered up. I am sure that when gloving there should always be 2 lines of defense.

[reppy007]

This is a pic of Toronto's box construction only on their 4 kv. Likely being converted to 13kv.

Looks like a mess,but I like the fiberglass T-arm...should be light........and is that current limiters above the switches?

[T-Man]

Looks like a mess,but I like the fiberglass T-arm...should be light........and is that current limiters above the switches?

Looks to me like the fuse throttles are hanging in the bottom of the cut outs, so they don't take water and the bank is not in service yet.

[reppy007]

Looks to me like the fuse throttles are hanging in the bottom of the cut outs, so they don't take water and the bank is not in service yet.

TOO funny T....I say above....how can two guys see the same thing and be so wrong......One of us needs glasses.....I can recommend a eye doctor if you want me to.:D

[Orgnizdlbr]

Yup, CLF's on the line side of the switch. And yup, the cutout lids are not installed, just hanging on the bottom of the cutout......

[reppy007]

Yup, CLF's on the line side of the switch. And yup, the cutout lids are not installed, just hanging on the bottom of the cutout......

Must be a Yankee thing....this fuse throttle /cut out lid term....here theys be called barrels!:D

[bobbo]

This is a pic of Toronto's box construction only on their 4 kv. Likely being converted to 13kv.

I did a box 167s on a hanger arm, with a kicker arm, paralleled with an open temp bank on a stub pole shoe flies to the stub. It took for ever to transfer. Worked it out on hooks because little parking lot could only fit the digger. It took awhile. But that thing looks real busy!

[Orgnizdlbr]

Must be a Yankee thing....this fuse throttle /cut out lid term....here theys be called barrels!:D

Call em CO "doors" too.....

[reppy007]

Call em CO "doors" too.....

CO doors too.........:nightmare::nightmare::nightmare:..... .........ok

[bobbo]

This is a pic of Toronto's box construction only on their 4 kv. Likely being converted to 13kv.

I am trying to follow your secondary, is that 120/240/208 4 wire? Is there one would pin on that structure that isn't sunk?

[lewy]

I am trying to follow your secondary, is that 120/240/208 4 wire? Is there one would pin on that structure that isn't sunk?
I really don't know I have never worked in Toronto, I just thought I would show a pic of box construction if any one was curious. The closest I have ever seen to any thing looking like that was in New Orleans.

[reppy007]

I really don't know I have never worked in Toronto, I just thought I would show a pic of box construction if any one was curious. The closest I have ever seen to any thing looking like that was in New Orleans.

So lewy...then you wouldnt know what type of bank feeds Casa Loma...seen everything there.....no sign of any bank.:D

[copperlineman]

Holy Cow, what a conversation. Let me add my 2 cents, and the reasons why I have 2 cents to add.

DO NOT bond your neutral to a down-guy or the anchor rod. A down-guy should be isolated from everything. It should have a head/body/and tail. The head is usually the fiber or glass rod at the top, the body is between the rod and the insulator near the ground which creates the tail. The guy should have the bottom 8 feet isolated to protect the people on the ground in case the guy breaks and makes contact with a live source. The people on the ground are supposed to be protected. Us lineman on the pole don't need protection from a guy because the guy should be isolated and we should know what we're doing.
If you bond the guy to your system neutral with no isolation points in the guy wire, you'll be turning your anchor rod into a ground rod. If you've ever pulled an old ground rod out while replacing a pole, you'll notice it's usually much shorter and now comes to a sharp point. That's the result of overvoltage going to earth at that point through the neutral and ground system. That's what a ground rod is supposed to do. If you ground your guy, the anchor rod will burn off from the anchor the same way. One of these days, and with any strain on it all, it will pull out of the ground and you lose your down-guy.
Let your guy and anchor be an anchor. Don't try to have them be a ground rod too.

The neutral is supposed to be grounded as often as you can. Your system is only as good as your neutral. Neutrals should be grounded every 600 feet and at every equipment pole. More often if you can. That's why most Wye systems are called "multi-grounded wye". Install a ground rod (meggered to less than 25 ohms) with minimum #6 copper and attach it to the neutral at every other pole if you can. While your at it, CLAMP the neutral directly to the pole. The objective is to GROUND the neutral, not insulate it from a ground potential. Those of you who do insulate the neutral on a spool will dead end it directly to the pole in the next span!! (and maybe even ground it to the down-guy and anchor rod?) That doesn't make any sense. I know it's a "current carrying conductor", but it's at ground potential and it's designed to be at ground potential, and we should do all we can to keep it at ground potential.
Those companies that clamp their neutrals to the pole don't do it so the linemen can use it as a pole bracket for equi-potential grounding either. They do it so their neutral is grounded as well as it can be 100% of the time. As a result of that good ground source, a lineman can use it for equi-potential grounding the 1% of the time he may be out there. At times, the pole can be a better ground than the #6 wire running down it. Team them together for a better ground. The more a neutral is grounded, and the better the grounds are, the safer your neutral will be and it will serve your system better.
Why insulate a neutral from the pole and then attach a down-ground wire to it that's stapled to the pole all the way down to the ground? What was the thinking behind that? Doesn't that make the insulator kind of useless?

Make your down-guys a down-guy and not a ground rod, but, ground your neutrals every chance you get. You're system will be better off for it!!

[lewy]

Holy Cow, what a conversation. Let me add my 2 cents, and the reasons why I have 2 cents to add.

DO NOT bond your neutral to a down-guy or the anchor rod. A down-guy should be isolated from everything. It should have a head/body/and tail. The head is usually the fiber or glass rod at the top, the body is between the rod and the insulator near the ground which creates the tail. The guy should have the bottom 8 feet isolated to protect the people on the ground in case the guy breaks and makes contact with a live source. The people on the ground are supposed to be protected. Us lineman on the pole don't need protection from a guy because the guy should be isolated and we should know what we're doing.
If you bond the guy to your system neutral with no isolation points in the guy wire, you'll be turning your anchor rod into a ground rod. If you've ever pulled an old ground rod out while replacing a pole, you'll notice it's usually much shorter and now comes to a sharp point. That's the result of overvoltage going to earth at that point through the neutral and ground system. That's what a ground rod is supposed to do. If you ground your guy, the anchor rod will burn off from the anchor the same way. One of these days, and with any strain on it all, it will pull out of the ground and you lose your down-guy.
Let your guy and anchor be an anchor. Don't try to have them be a ground rod too.

The neutral is supposed to be grounded as often as you can. Your system is only as good as your neutral. Neutrals should be grounded every 600 feet and at every equipment pole. More often if you can. That's why most Wye systems are called "multi-grounded wye". Install a ground rod (meggered to less than 25 ohms) with minimum #6 copper and attach it to the neutral at every other pole if you can. While your at it, CLAMP the neutral directly to the pole. The objective is to GROUND the neutral, not insulate it from a ground potential. Those of you who do insulate the neutral on a spool will dead end it directly to the pole in the next span!! (and maybe even ground it to the down-guy and anchor rod?) That doesn't make any sense. I know it's a "current carrying conductor", but it's at ground potential and it's designed to be at ground potential, and we should do all we can to keep it at ground potential.
Those companies that clamp their neutrals to the pole don't do it so the linemen can use it as a pole bracket for equi-potential grounding either. They do it so their neutral is grounded as well as it can be 100% of the time. As a result of that good ground source, a lineman can use it for equi-potential grounding the 1% of the time he may be out there. At times, the pole can be a better ground than the #6 wire running down it. Team them together for a better ground. The more a neutral is grounded, and the better the grounds are, the safer your neutral will be and it will serve your system better.
Why insulate a neutral from the pole and then attach a down-ground wire to it that's stapled to the pole all the way down to the ground? What was the thinking behind that? Doesn't that make the insulator kind of useless?

Make your down-guys a down-guy and not a ground rod, but, ground your neutrals every chance you get. You're system will be better off for it!!

Well said I agree, for us the minimum is #4 stranded copper for transformer poles and 1/0 standed copper for riser poles

[thrasher]

copperlineman; I don't know where you work but we cannot build by the specs you are calling for. RUS and the NESC require all grounds exposed to the public to be bonded together. I have personally measured 48 V DC between an non-bonded anchor/guy wire and the pole ground near a railroad track. Have also found 20 V AC on a non-bonded guy wire compared to the pole. So we put a insulator in the guy to get the bare metal below the neutral and then bond the guy to the neutral below the neutral. As for using an insulator on the neutral even though it is bonded that's to stop AM radio noise. If you have a heavy loaded neutral and it can move across the downground it will make interference, whereas an insulator and a bond wire makes an electrical solid connection while allowing the wire to shift in the wind or ice hopefully without breaking.

[bobbo]

Holy Cow, what a conversation. Let me add my 2 cents, and the reasons why I have 2 cents to add.

DO NOT bond your neutral to a down-guy or the anchor rod. A down-guy should be isolated from everything. It should have a head/body/and tail. The head is usually the fiber or glass rod at the top, the body is between the rod and the insulator near the ground which creates the tail. The guy should have the bottom 8 feet isolated to protect the people on the ground in case the guy breaks and makes contact with a live source. The people on the ground are supposed to be protected. Us lineman on the pole don't need protection from a guy because the guy should be isolated and we should know what we're doing.
If you bond the guy to your system neutral with no isolation points in the guy wire, you'll be turning your anchor rod into a ground rod. If you've ever pulled an old ground rod out while replacing a pole, you'll notice it's usually much shorter and now comes to a sharp point. That's the result of overvoltage going to earth at that point through the neutral and ground system. That's what a ground rod is supposed to do. If you ground your guy, the anchor rod will burn off from the anchor the same way. One of these days, and with any strain on it all, it will pull out of the ground and you lose your down-guy.
Let your guy and anchor be an anchor. Don't try to have them be a ground rod too.

The neutral is supposed to be grounded as often as you can. Your system is only as good as your neutral. Neutrals should be grounded every 600 feet and at every equipment pole. More often if you can. That's why most Wye systems are called "multi-grounded wye". Install a ground rod (meggered to less than 25 ohms) with minimum #6 copper and attach it to the neutral at every other pole if you can. While your at it, CLAMP the neutral directly to the pole. The objective is to GROUND the neutral, not insulate it from a ground potential. Those of you who do insulate the neutral on a spool will dead end it directly to the pole in the next span!! (and maybe even ground it to the down-guy and anchor rod?) That doesn't make any sense. I know it's a "current carrying conductor", but it's at ground potential and it's designed to be at ground potential, and we should do all we can to keep it at ground potential.
Those companies that clamp their neutrals to the pole don't do it so the linemen can use it as a pole bracket for equi-potential grounding either. They do it so their neutral is grounded as well as it can be 100% of the time. As a result of that good ground source, a lineman can use it for equi-potential grounding the 1% of the time he may be out there. At times, the pole can be a better ground than the #6 wire running down it. Team them together for a better ground. The more a neutral is grounded, and the better the grounds are, the safer your neutral will be and it will serve your system better.
Why insulate a neutral from the pole and then attach a down-ground wire to it that's stapled to the pole all the way down to the ground? What was the thinking behind that? Doesn't that make the insulator kind of useless?

Make your down-guys a down-guy and not a ground rod, but, ground your neutrals every chance you get. You're system will be better off for it!!

i think it's stupid but no one is in control. None of us. We build to the spec and that's what we have to do. Screw the lineman working and the public, some nuts for brains thinks stupid and passes it off as smart. That's how the world works man. Use to give a ****. I gave up. You can't argue against stupid when they sound smart. That's why they mandate rubber gloves and sleeves on dead tested and grounded circuit. We can do stupid all we want because everybody is rubber. No balls against stupid. Nobody fights and thinks anymore, they went to a 6 month lineman college, get a ticket and stab backs of anybody in there way. It's the new line work. And I just feed my family!

[lewy]

copperlineman; I don't know where you work but we cannot build by the specs you are calling for. RUS and the NESC require all grounds exposed to the public to be bonded together. I have personally measured 48 V DC between an non-bonded anchor/guy wire and the pole ground near a railroad track. Have also found 20 V AC on a non-bonded guy wire compared to the pole. So we put a insulator in the guy to get the bare metal below the neutral and then bond the guy to the neutral below the neutral. As for using an insulator on the neutral even though it is bonded that's to stop AM radio noise. If you have a heavy loaded neutral and it can move across the downground it will make interference, whereas an insulator and a bond wire makes an electrical solid connection while allowing the wire to shift in the wind or ice hopefully without breaking.
This is all we use as well as most of the province and we have none of the radio noise you talk about. This picture is 3/0 AA tensioned with 266 secondary lashed. Our main feeders would be 336 ACSR tensioned neutral and again with out the radio noise.

[bobbo]

This is all we use as well as most of the province and we have none of the radio noise you talk about. This picture is 3/0 AA tensioned with 266 secondary lashed. Our main feeders would be 336 ACSR tensioned neutral and again with out the radio noise.

this was a late 80s 90s video of how the cannucks equipotential. They didn't have pole bands yet, they bonded to the bolt on the Hubbard clamp, which translates to a heavy wide piece of hardware to hold lashed cable or super heavy telephone. It was 3 to 4 inches wide with a big heavy washer in the back, 3 to 4 inches wide. That's what held their neutral. So there was a lot of surface to equipotential the structure. So if something happened and a guy was on a pole, he would be fine. If you don't understand equipotential, the wire, the man, and the structure are the same potential. I think it would be a waste of time for truck accessible. And it would be a waste of time if your companies require rubber gloves and sleeves from ground to ground, lock to lock or whatever overpaid ****bird safety "engineer" jargon they can sputter and utter. The pole band is built and engineered for the amperage and is a better option. But the original idea by the cannucks was pretty smart!

[lewy]

this was a late 80s 90s video of how the cannucks equipotential. They didn't have pole bands yet, they bonded to the bolt on the Hubbard clamp, which translates to a heavy wide piece of hardware to hold lashed cable or super heavy telephone. It was 3 to 4 inches wide with a big heavy washer in the back, 3 to 4 inches wide. That's what held their neutral. So there was a lot of surface to equipotential the structure. So if something happened and a guy was on a pole, he would be fine. If you don't understand equipotential, the wire, the man, and the structure are the same potential. I think it would be a waste of time for truck accessible. And it would be a waste of time if your companies require rubber gloves and sleeves from ground to ground, lock to lock or whatever overpaid ****bird safety "engineer" jargon they can sputter and utter. The pole band is built and engineered for the amperage and is a better option. But the original idea by the cannucks was pretty smart!
We have to use the band when grounding the line. In my opinion the Hubbard clamp does a better job of bonding the pole, the band is for the safety man and the Hubbard is for me. The clamp is not meant to be carrying the fault current, the neutral takes care of that.

[bobbo]

This is all we use as well as most of the province and we have none of the radio noise you talk about. This picture is 3/0 AA tensioned with 266 secondary lashed. Our main feeders would be 336 ACSR tensioned neutral and again with out the radio noise.

Every time I mess with those boxes on the hot legs no one staggers them, they are clumped altogether.' They always come open an inch away from bare neutral because no one makes sure they click or lock them in. I don't know why we use those hot blocks like in Chicago. Throw a kid that rides a short yellow school bus in a bucket and he could put those hot blocks energized without a fire. They are like secondary blocks in underground transformers all covered. And get away from the dumbass squeeze ons. Stupid. Squeeze ons on open wire is so retarded. Mechanicals you just clean up, no extending. Then you extend with with no press sleeves but automatics. Your wire has less amp capacity. And your squeeze on has more. Then you have to come an inch from the neutral or hot to get your big quarter inch of loss. And if you look at your automatics cut marks they are all different. So if you get one from Tijuana and your use to the autos from siu siu province china. You'll end up with a different loss. Stupid. Someone from Chicago picture those hot boxes! Awesome idea -about 15 years ago!

[thrasher]

Lewy from what I see of the bracket in your photo that wire is not going to move thru that bracket. Where I'm talking about radio noise is when the bare neutral is strung thru a clevis around a slight angle and the wire can shift. For what you are doing; your right that shouldn't make radio noise.

[rob8210]

Hey Bobbo, the hot blocks you are talking about , are they a multi-tap block? ( Burndy makes a nifty 4 point) I gotta agree with you. Today we really aren't allowed to think about the way we build line any more , just do what the spec book says. I have seen quite a few specs that really are a hard way to build , especially for the next guy. The same applies to the ground to ground rules, do as your told , doesn't matter if it makes sense. I keep running in to under trained , can'y cut it lineman that became safety men. They learned just enough to be dangerous, to the real lineman that work it everyday. Some times its the lawyers. The one safety man I recall, made me wear rubber gloves on a dead and grounded, double circuit dead end pole where I was building a new feeder riser. His reason was there was a 115kv line on the far side of the right of way, 100 feet away, my grounds where 10 feet away. Induction , he says, but ran away when I wanted to question him about it!

[bobbo]

Hey Bobbo, the hot blocks you are talking about , are they a multi-tap block? ( Burndy makes a nifty 4 point) I gotta agree with you. Today we really aren't allowed to think about the way we build line any more , just do what the spec book says. I have seen quite a few specs that really are a hard way to build , especially for the next guy. The same applies to the ground to ground rules, do as your told , doesn't matter if it makes sense. I keep running in to under trained , can'y cut it lineman that became safety men. They learned just enough to be dangerous, to the real lineman that work it everyday. Some times its the lawyers. The one safety man I recall, made me wear rubber gloves on a dead and grounded, double circuit dead end pole where I was building a new feeder riser. His reason was there was a 115kv line on the far side of the right of way, 100 feet away, my grounds where 10 feet away. Induction , he says, but ran away when I wanted to question him about it!

If someone can pic those hot boxes they are the way to go. Rob I know the dumbs hit. Wear a safety vest and fr in the middle of a bean field with no wire and structures sorting steel. I have no clue where they get these guys. The real lineman left me alone as far as safety guys. Theses new ****heads go to a community college, left hand state, get a associates degree in safety engineering and they yearn to be a cop. No people skills. No knowledge. Just ****. I just work mom and pop. Get a dispatch sign my w4 and go to work. If they praise themselves on over 1000 employees I just find another place. Like rusty old diggers and buckets and make real friends.i root for the little guy, the small employer and the locals that support them. The politics of these big outfits get me . I will take home less and be happy. I will take home less and the end of my life I won't sit in purgatory and contemplate on screwing people and being a **** to survive in those ****holes. They have to live with themselves. Die. And spend eternity in some place very hot and lonely on some stupid task of taking corn out of shot. And contemplating for all of eternity of how many people they screwed, because there isn't a decent bone in their body. They sold themselves on houses they can't afford, toys they can't afford, and wives that get fat and ugly quick. So they have to play the game. I don't!

[bobbo]

We have to use the band when grounding the line. In my opinion the Hubbard clamp does a better job of bonding the pole, the band is for the safety man and the Hubbard is for me. The clamp is not meant to be carrying the fault current, the neutral takes care of that.

If something happens God forbid there product will protect you! The only thing I see wrong with their product is the amount of chain, just sell the thing with the amount of chain for a 1/0 pole or H4. Then you have to jerry rig to keep it on the pole and not enough chain to even reach the binder. I am sure the bungee chord or yellow pee line will not be proper tightness.

And as far as clamping to a machine bolt, what's the difference between clamping to steel on a tower and a machine bolt going through the Hubbard clamp? I think the Hubbard clamp would be better! And the engineers would have to accept two inches of bolt behind that washer to clamp.

for high line, if the shoes didn't have that rubber in them. And you preformed the static. That would be a great place to ground high line on wood. I don't know how far fault current would travel wood? I am used to placing below the first stack. And for 34.5 the stacks are too small to climb around, but 138 and 230 I foresee no problem. If you Equipotential on top, would you have enough protection with 30 feet below? Then you would have less BS to climb around.

[copperlineman]

copperlineman; I don't know where you work but we cannot build by the specs you are calling for. RUS and the NESC require all grounds exposed to the public to be bonded together. I have personally measured 48 V DC between an non-bonded anchor/guy wire and the pole ground near a railroad track. Have also found 20 V AC on a non-bonded guy wire compared to the pole. So we put a insulator in the guy to get the bare metal below the neutral and then bond the guy to the neutral below the neutral. As for using an insulator on the neutral even though it is bonded that's to stop AM radio noise. If you have a heavy loaded neutral and it can move across the downground it will make interference, whereas an insulator and a bond wire makes an electrical solid connection while allowing the wire to shift in the wind or ice hopefully without breaking.

If you have specs to build by, then build it. If you want to use your anchor rod as a ground rod, then go ahead. It's not dangerous, it's just different and has a down-side to it. If you like tying the neutral on an insulator, go for it. I see more neutrals tied to insulators than I see clamped in, so it works too. I just think there are better ways to do it. We all know there are many different ways to do linework and build systems.
I replied on how we install guy wires and CLAMP neutrals to the pole (not tie them to a hubbard). Clamping the neutral works and isolating the guy wire works too, and NESC does not require guys to be grounded. The public is not exposed to different potentials. Up on the pole a lineman may see a little voltage like you describe, but I don't care about little dc or ac on a neutral. I know how to handle it. I think more grounds, and better grounds will take care of your voltage problem, but, I'm not that familiar with your system. We used the same clamp that Lewy's picture shows and I've never heard of any radio problems with it. I do know that a system is only as good as the neutral. Ground it as often as you can, and as good as you can.

[lewy]

If something happens God forbid there product will protect you! The only thing I see wrong with their product is the amount of chain, just sell the thing with the amount of chain for a 1/0 pole or H4. Then you have to jerry rig to keep it on the pole and not enough chain to even reach the binder. I am sure the bungee chord or yellow pee line will not be proper tightness.

And as far as clamping to a machine bolt, what's the difference between clamping to steel on a tower and a machine bolt going through the Hubbard clamp? I think the Hubbard clamp would be better! And the engineers would have to accept two inches of bolt behind that washer to clamp.

for high line, if the shoes didn't have that rubber in them. And you preformed the static. That would be a great place to ground high line on wood. I don't know how far fault current would travel wood? I am used to placing below the first stack. And for 34.5 the stacks are too small to climb around, but 138 and 230 I foresee no problem. If you Equipotential on top, would you have enough protection with 30 feet below? Then you would have less BS to climb around.
We would never clamp to the bolt that is connected to the Hubbard clamp, we would just connect to the neutral. The Hubbard clamp is not designed for fault current, but the pole band is. For me either way I only use both to bond the pole, I always run a ground directly from the neutral to the closest phase.