Handling energized wire...Different thoughts....

[psu927]

Without going into reasons why, or details at this moment, I wanted to see what you guys think (or were taught) is proper for handling live wire in a few different situations. This is all 13kv from a bucket.

First, deadending live wire with a jackstrap (small block and tackle) or hoist, must you isolate the hoist or jack from the pole or crossarm? (say..., if you are using a sling?)

Second, handling wire in a jib, with rubber? Without rubber?

Third, setting a live phase, covered (with rubber snakes) directly on the crossarm or top of the pole?

And the reason you are taught why? Thanks.

[reppy007]

Maybe Im not following you....but lets start with your thoughts and WHY? Im seeing a big red flag,fill us in.:nightmare:

[psu927]

Without giving too much info, we had an incident at our company and now the company is re-evaluating the way we do some of these things. Apparently we are behind a lot of other utilities in "best practices" in some areas related to this and I want to get a feel for other companies requirements.

[lewy]

Without going into reasons why, or details at this moment, I wanted to see what you guys think (or were taught) is proper for handling live wire in a few different situations. This is all 13kv from a bucket.

First, deadending live wire with a jackstrap (small block and tackle) or hoist, must you isolate the hoist or jack from the pole or crossarm? (say..., if you are using a sling?)

Second, handling wire in a jib, with rubber? Without rubber?

Third, setting a live phase, covered (with rubber snakes) directly on the crossarm or top of the pole?

And the reason you are taught why? Thanks.
Any time dead ending live conductor you should be using a link stick or attaching your hoist to the insulator. Handling wire in the jib without rubber is fine as long as you have enough jib pinned out. We would never set a pole live with the arm on it, we would cover the phases and the pole then set the pole and hang arm after pole set.

[psu927]

[QUOTE=lewy;142228]Any time dead ending live conductor you should be using a link stick or attaching your hoist to the insulator. Handling wire in the jib without rubber is fine as long as you have enough jib pinned out. We would never set a pole live with the arm on it, we would cover the phases and the pole then set the pole and hang arm after pole set.[/QUOTE


I just meant say, changing out an insulator (or any reason) untying a phase and covering it and setting it on top of the arm or pole.

[thrasher]

If moving wire in the jib we pin out sufficient length (2 holes) with the wire handler head on jib. Hose is not required but usually we have it slid up on both sides of jib head. I have seen conductor in line hose laid directly on crossarm by some of our contractors but we put a blanket down first then the wire in line hose. We use an insulator of some type with a strap hoist to pull up hot wire, usually a link stick but occasionally a bell already hung.
Finally we do set poles already framed. We cover all conductors with about four lengths of hose including neutral. We let neutral float, and put phases in a "Christmas tree" on one buckets jib and it lifts wires up and out of way. We also have x-arm parallel to wire until at full depth in the hole then use cant hook to turn pole. Then second bucket moves wires out of "Christmas tree" and onto new pole.
Hope this answers your questions.

[T-Man]

We would have the recloser on the line or at the station set to one shot to do this work also.

[lewy]

[QUOTE=lewy;142228]Any time dead ending live conductor you should be using a link stick or attaching your hoist to the insulator. Handling wire in the jib without rubber is fine as long as you have enough jib pinned out. We would never set a pole live with the arm on it, we would cover the phases and the pole then set the pole and hang arm after pole set.[/QUOTE


I just meant say, changing out an insulator (or any reason) untying a phase and covering it and setting it on top of the arm or pole.

We never rest a covered phase on the arm or a screw driver, either hang it from a link stick or use an auxillary arm. Rubber is meant for brush contact.

[psu927]

[QUOTE=psu927;142232]

We never rest a covered phase on the arm or a screw driver, either hang it from a link stick or use an auxillary arm. Rubber is meant for brush contact.


And this is why I am asking, seems to be some of these rules depend on the company.
This is a common practice where I work and there has never been an issue. The current issue has more to do with the link stick between the hoist and the arm, and handling wire in a jib winch line. (I didn't specify jib winchline before)

[Lineman North Florida]

Without going into reasons why, or details at this moment, I wanted to see what you guys think (or were taught) is proper for handling live wire in a few different situations. This is all 13kv from a bucket.

First, deadending live wire with a jackstrap (small block and tackle) or hoist, must you isolate the hoist or jack from the pole or crossarm? (say..., if you are using a sling?)

Second, handling wire in a jib, with rubber? Without rubber?

Third, setting a live phase, covered (with rubber snakes) directly on the crossarm or top of the pole?

And the reason you are taught why? Thanks.

I use a link stick between the hoist and the sling, have done it without but try to err on the side of caution, never wanted rubber in a phase moving head or tied up in a rope usually just slide a gut as needed as I move the phase, have and still will lay a gutted phase on a crossarm but usually lay a blanket over arm first and make sure the gut is upside down so there is no chance of it coming off of the phase, will still use a screwdriver when needed but will try to use a little short hot arm we made a few years ago, I used to work with a guy who would on a good dry day with a good dry crossarm wouldn't hesitate to lay a phase on the arm with no gut, he pinstriped many a crossarm which we still run into occaisionally on arm changeouts, but he is gone and so are those days and for the most part those work practices.

[reppy007]

Sometimes company rules should be over-ridden,you are the one on the wire/in the field.Years ago we had nylon jacks used as isolators,one side that we were working on was grounded,this was #2 primary.The other side was left hot...it was a pretty sunny day....then a small rain shower appeared.....the jacks were clean and in good shape....Well they burnt down fast after the rain came down.Just beware.

[psu927]

Sometimes company rules should be over-ridden,you are the one on the wire/in the field.Years ago we had nylon jacks used as isolators,one side that we were working on was grounded,this was #2 primary.The other side was left hot...it was a pretty sunny day....then a small rain shower appeared.....the jacks were clean and in good shape....Well they burnt down fast after the rain came down.Just beware.

I agree completely. But when you are trained, and have only worked at one company, if you are taught the wrong way, that's how you do it because you don't know any different. And it's acceptable until there is an incident. I have no problem laying a phase on the arm at all. (with a gut) but we used to use slings as our isolators (or wrap a hoist line directly around the arm) and didn't know any different. I always thought in my head it wasn't quite right, but now I know its not. Good discussion.

[lewy]

Stick and jib 44kv

[rob8210]

Lewy, are you guys just changing the top pin insulator on that pole? Most places I have worked would re-insulate the entire pole. Heck some places will as soon as they see glass insulators. As a contractor , changing one insulator on a pole isn't worth the cost of setting up. As for the op's question, when changing dead ends always use a link stick or at least an insulator of some kind. My theory is if I have it on the truck ,I am going to use it, if not I will find a safe way to do it , a sling or a nylon strap hoist is not tested. As for laying a rubbered up phase on a crossarm or a screwdriver , its not an issue, but consider the voltage your working on. As for a jib they are designed to handle live conductors, as long as they are tested. Some old fellas I used to work with would not trust them and always used a piece of rubber too.

[lewy]

Lewy, are you guys just changing the top pin insulator on that pole? Most places I have worked would re-insulate the entire pole. Heck some places will as soon as they see glass insulators. As a contractor , changing one insulator on a pole isn't worth the cost of setting up. As for the op's question, when changing dead ends always use a link stick or at least an insulator of some kind. My theory is if I have it on the truck ,I am going to use it, if not I will find a safe way to do it , a sling or a nylon strap hoist is not tested. As for laying a rubbered up phase on a crossarm or a screwdriver , its not an issue, but consider the voltage your working on. As for a jib they are designed to handle live conductors, as long as they are tested. Some old fellas I used to work with would not trust them and always used a piece of rubber too.
Ya we changed all 3. We had the use of another truck which made it easier to hold the road phase out of the way instead of hanging it on a link stick on the near insulator.

[Old Line Dog]

Without going into reasons why, or details at this moment, I wanted to see what you guys think (or were taught) is proper for handling live wire in a few different situations. This is all 13kv from a bucket.

First, deadending live wire with a jackstrap (small block and tackle) or hoist, must you isolate the hoist or jack from the pole or crossarm? (say..., if you are using a sling?)

Personally, always isolated the hoist from the pole. With a nylon strap hoist, just throw a rope sling on the crossarm, hook up the hoist, and pull the conductor.

Second, handling wire in a jib, with rubber? Without rubber?

Always with rubber Gloves, and rubber on the phase.

Third, setting a live phase, covered (with rubber snakes) directly on the crossarm or top of the pole?

Absolutely. It's 7620, or 7200....depending. COMPLETELY Safe, least in my opinion. Only did it like.....thousands of times...

And the reason you are taught why? Thanks.
Just the way I was taught, and some common sense.

.................................................. ..

[copperlineman]

There's an accepted practice when working energized equipment...for yourself and the equipment. It's called "Isolate and Insulate". Isolate from ground or another potential and insulate from voltage. If you apply these principles to you and the work you're doing, you'll be safe.

Always isolate the hoist or jackstrap from the arm. Especially a web hoist. Many think a web hoist, or "hot hoist" can be placed directly on a rope or web sling. A web hoist should never be placed between objects of different potentials. The web part of the hoist will slowly melt because it becomes the path for current. One day, the hoist will simply snap under a small load and you'll be wondering why. Always "isolate" the hoist from a ground potential, like the arm.

For the jib? The tested portion of the truck boom is your isolating device. If the jib is tested as an insulating device, you're ok. If not, and most are not, then put rubber on the phase. The rubber is your insulating and the boom is your isolating. You can also use a short insulating link on the jib winch and raise a conductor without rubber as long as your isolation and insulation is taken care of.

Placing a covered conductor on an arm or top of the pole? That's not following the principles of isolate/insulate, but under many circumstances it will work. Lots of guys have done it many times as the previous post states. Problem is, there will be a situation where it doesn't work. What then? If you use a rubber blanket on the arm (isolate) and a rubber hose on the conductor (insulate), then it will work all the time. It's the habits we build that also keep us safe. If you make a shortcut as a habit, your time will run out one of these days.

You left out one question. What about the energized conductors around you that you're NOT working on? They should all be covered unless they're further than 2' 1" away from your reaching or falling distance. That distance is almost 4 feet from your working position. Any energized equipment of a different potential closer than that should be covered.

I was taught these principles from the beginning. My old company was a very large investor owned and a great place to work. Sad thing is they merged with another investor owned and is now just a shadow of it's former self. But, their training program was great back then. I've been in linework almost 44 years now and I'm a firm believer in good rules that make sense and making them a lifetime habit. Follow the rules and you'll go home every night. Start making a few shortcuts your habits and all bets are off. You're not existing by God's grace, and he's the one who gave you a brain! The "isolate/insulate" principle of gloving live equipment works and it's worth making a habit out of.

[copperlineman]

Sorry, I was in a hurry with the last post and forgot the most important "why". There are three things needed to cause an electric injury...current-path-time. Given enough current, enough time (and its a very short amount), and a path to travel, an accident will occur.

The principles of Isolate/Insulate takes the "path" out of the equation. No path, then no current can flow. The worker is like a bird on a wire; no path for current to flow. The voltage in an energized wire in an insulated jib or a short link stick has no path to flow anywhere. No path to flow from a hoist on a hot wire to an cross-arm at ground potential, and no melting of the fibers of a web hoist.
Placing a wire in a hose on an arm? That will prevent the path in most situations, but at voltages higher than 4kv, the risk is too great to take in any situation where moisture may be involved. Plus it's not a good habit to make.

[US & CA Tramp]

Great Post's Copper! I agree with all of the points you made, and that is also how I was trained.

[lewy]

There's an accepted practice when working energized equipment...for yourself and the equipment. It's called "Isolate and Insulate". Isolate from ground or another potential and insulate from voltage. If you apply these principles to you and the work you're doing, you'll be safe.

Always isolate the hoist or jackstrap from the arm. Especially a web hoist. Many think a web hoist, or "hot hoist" can be placed directly on a rope or web sling. A web hoist should never be placed between objects of different potentials. The web part of the hoist will slowly melt because it becomes the path for current. One day, the hoist will simply snap under a small load and you'll be wondering why. Always "isolate" the hoist from a ground potential, like the arm.

For the jib? The tested portion of the truck boom is your isolating device. If the jib is tested as an insulating device, you're ok. If not, and most are not, then put rubber on the phase. The rubber is your insulating and the boom is your isolating. You can also use a short insulating link on the jib winch and raise a conductor without rubber as long as your isolation and insulation is taken care of.

Placing a covered conductor on an arm or top of the pole? That's not following the principles of isolate/insulate, but under many circumstances it will work. Lots of guys have done it many times as the previous post states. Problem is, there will be a situation where it doesn't work. What then? If you use a rubber blanket on the arm (isolate) and a rubber hose on the conductor (insulate), then it will work all the time. It's the habits we build that also keep us safe. If you make a shortcut as a habit, your time will run out one of these days.

You left out one question. What about the energized conductors around you that you're NOT working on? They should all be covered unless they're further than 2' 1" away from your reaching or falling distance. That distance is almost 4 feet from your working position. Any energized equipment of a different potential closer than that should be covered.

I was taught these principles from the beginning. My old company was a very large investor owned and a great place to work. Sad thing is they merged with another investor owned and is now just a shadow of it's former self. But, their training program was great back then. I've been in linework almost 44 years now and I'm a firm believer in good rules that make sense and making them a lifetime habit. Follow the rules and you'll go home every night. Start making a few shortcuts your habits and all bets are off. You're not existing by God's grace, and he's the one who gave you a brain! The "isolate/insulate" principle of gloving live equipment works and it's worth making a habit out of.
I agree always cover second points and use a link stick or some other approved isolating device when using a web hoist. As far as using a link stick with the winch on your jib, yes if you are going to use the winch, but I have never used a link stick with my jib and most times just put the bare conductor in the jib unless moving small conductor with class 2 rubber. Does not work so well when moving large conductor and class 4 rubber and impossible with class 5 hard cover.

[copperlineman]

I agree always cover second points and use a link stick or some other approved isolating device when using a web hoist. As far as using a link stick with the winch on your jib, yes if you are going to use the winch, but I have never used a link stick with my jib and most times just put the bare conductor in the jib unless moving small conductor with class 2 rubber. Does not work so well when moving large conductor and class 4 rubber and impossible with class 5 hard cover.

Not all of our jib booms were tested for insulation value even though some of the attachments were, so we used a short, 16", stick we called a "pig tail". It had a ring on one end to attach to the winch line hook and a curled up piece of steel on the other end that looked like a pigs tail and encased the conductor in the curl so it wouldn't come out. They came in different lengths, but, I've never seen one over 24". It was made just like a foam-filled hot stick and was rated for 100kv a foot just like the sticks. Had a capacity of a couple thousand pounds. (more than the winch itself). We could raise just about any size wire with it. Without the pig-tail, we could choke the rope winch line around the rubber hose on the conductor. Either way, the conductor was insulated and the truck boom was the isolation.
Some companies do not allow a hot conductor to be raised with a winch because you don't know how much it weighs unless you use an in-line scale (some kind of dino something meter). Some companies don't allow the bucket to be moved if a hot conductor is connected to the jib. Our company allowed both as long as we used the common sense we always told them we had!

[psu927]

Not all of our jib booms were tested for insulation value even though some of the attachments were, so we used a short, 16", stick we called a "pig tail". It had a ring on one end to attach to the winch line hook and a curled up piece of steel on the other end that looked like a pigs tail and encased the conductor in the curl so it wouldn't come out. They came in different lengths, but, I've never seen one over 24". It was made just like a foam-filled hot stick and was rated for 100kv a foot just like the sticks. Had a capacity of a couple thousand pounds. (more than the winch itself). We could raise just about any size wire with it. Without the pig-tail, we could choke the rope winch line around the rubber hose on the conductor. Either way, the conductor was insulated and the truck boom was the isolation.
Some companies do not allow a hot conductor to be raised with a winch because you don't know how much it weighs unless you use an in-line scale (some kind of dino something meter). Some companies don't allow the bucket to be moved if a hot conductor is connected to the jib. Our company allowed both as long as we used the common sense we always told them we had!



Well said. Covering up conductors within the "minimum approach distance" is, (or should be) a given. Lots of great input fellas.

[lewy]

Not all of our jib booms were tested for insulation value even though some of the attachments were, so we used a short, 16", stick we called a "pig tail". It had a ring on one end to attach to the winch line hook and a curled up piece of steel on the other end that looked like a pigs tail and encased the conductor in the curl so it wouldn't come out. They came in different lengths, but, I've never seen one over 24". It was made just like a foam-filled hot stick and was rated for 100kv a foot just like the sticks. Had a capacity of a couple thousand pounds. (more than the winch itself). We could raise just about any size wire with it. Without the pig-tail, we could choke the rope winch line around the rubber hose on the conductor. Either way, the conductor was insulated and the truck boom was the isolation.
Some companies do not allow a hot conductor to be raised with a winch because you don't know how much it weighs unless you use an in-line scale (some kind of dino something meter). Some companies don't allow the bucket to be moved if a hot conductor is connected to the jib. Our company allowed both as long as we used the common sense we always told them we had!
It sounds like you are talking about a spiral link stick and yes they are good for I believe 3000lbs and most winches are good for 2000lbs with the jib in the right position. All of our jibs are tested and I have never had the need to use the winch when moving conductor, I find you don't have the same control and you can't move the conductor behind you with a link stick. I believe you about some companys not allowing to lift with a winch without a dyno, but it makes no sense as the weight being lifted is going to be no where near max capacity and as far as not allowing a bucket to be moved when handling a live conductor is just simply a case of somebody not understanding what we do when changing insulators or transferring to a new pole.

[bobbo]

Just use common sense. Is the structure wet or dry? Are you rigged to a shoe with a poly? Is it a cut and kick and everything goes right back? I haven't moved too much dead wire. Is the arm bonded? Is their arresters? You can quote one company policy and another. But the old rule was link stick if wet, about to rain or your leaving overnight. And for moving wire for three minutes web or clean slacks was fine or nylon sling clean. Did in with
19.9 for years. Some bodies eyes are rolling out there. If you treat your web hoists like **** and your rope is all dirty because your company is too cheap or not knowledgeable to replace web straps and insulate your rigging like crazy. Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out. I am tired of guys that don't think! You can't go to a 6 month lineman college and jump in this. Think! Use your brain! I had a foreman who made me tie macs on top of insulators for overnight and ten years back we taped them to DA bolts for 6 mos. on a 250 pole job. And never had a problem. If my foreman worked where I worked and saw a mechanical jumper rated with 20 kv insulation could hang in there for 6 mons. On a d a bolt with 19.9, if he saw it and thAt was normal work practice, he wouldn't have had me tie in a Mac for 4800, not touching anything, my old yards would have thought he slightly homo. But that's how the guy was. You do what you are comfortable with and what you know! My indoctrination into line work was a lot different. My foreman said don't be afraid of this **** and we would grab 7200 out of the bucket with our bare hands, to show me it was isolated. I think every apprentice did it in those parts. It was a don't be a ***** world. And those guys are all still working and are **** good lineman. That's how it was! If they did that today lawyers would be all over the place. And we climbed and gloved 7200, 19.9 in very rare instances, then I found out we weren't suppose to do it. I didn't like it because your armpits would burn, but I did it! Work practice varies from county to county, state to state. That's why good lineman have travelled!

[rob8210]

I agree with Bobbo, too many companies are taking the thinking out of linework. Some of the practices we learned years ago are still very useful today. The problem is with some of the trainers and some of the safety people. Remember the old saying, " those that can do, those that can't , teach. " A lot of the young fellas today, don't think about what they are doing. Heck I worked with one young journeyman ( just topped out) relocate a single phase 27.6kv dead end to a new pole with rope blocks, and he didn't know any better. Common sense , a knowledge of your equipment , and a bit of thinking will get an awful lot of work done. Treat your equipment properly. Rubber up where you need too, plan your work, work smarter not harder, use the equipment you have properly, and the right attitude, and a good lineman can do anything , safely and efficiently!

[copperlineman]

Just use common sense. Is the structure wet or dry? Are you rigged to a shoe with a poly? Is it a cut and kick and everything goes right back? I haven't moved too much dead wire. Is the arm bonded? Is their arresters? You can quote one company policy and another. But the old rule was link stick if wet, about to rain or your leaving overnight. And for moving wire for three minutes web or clean slacks was fine or nylon sling clean. Did in with
19.9 for years. Some bodies eyes are rolling out there. If you treat your web hoists like **** and your rope is all dirty because your company is too cheap or not knowledgeable to replace web straps and insulate your rigging like crazy. Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out. I am tired of guys that don't think! You can't go to a 6 month lineman college and jump in this. Think! Use your brain! I had a foreman who made me tie macs on top of insulators for overnight and ten years back we taped them to DA bolts for 6 mos. on a 250 pole job. And never had a problem. If my foreman worked where I worked and saw a mechanical jumper rated with 20 kv insulation could hang in there for 6 mons. On a d a bolt with 19.9, if he saw it and thAt was normal work practice, he wouldn't have had me tie in a Mac for 4800, not touching anything, my old yards would have thought he slightly homo. But that's how the guy was. You do what you are comfortable with and what you know! My indoctrination into line work was a lot different. My foreman said don't be afraid of this **** and we would grab 7200 out of the bucket with our bare hands, to show me it was isolated. I think every apprentice did it in those parts. It was a don't be a ***** world. And those guys are all still working and are **** good lineman. That's how it was! If they did that today lawyers would be all over the place. And we climbed and gloved 7200, 19.9 in very rare instances, then I found out we weren't suppose to do it. I didn't like it because your armpits would burn, but I did it! Work practice varies from county to county, state to state. That's why good lineman have travelled!

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here bobbo. Are you that set against company policy? Are you that set against training? I'm not sure I understand where you and rob8210 are coming from.
From your post above; "Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out." Where did you learn how to think it out? Where did you get the basis for this type of thinking? Did you figure it out all by yourself, or did someone "train" you when you were a young lineman?
There's a lot of company procedures, practices, and safety rules that are very good. Most training for linemen DO teach a man to think, but he has to have a good foundation to base that thinking on, just like the examples you stated. I was taught some of those old ways also, but I thank God some of them are gone too.
Sorry for disagreeing with you, but I couldn't let this pass without a comment.

[rob8210]

Some of the old ways are gone for good reasons, but some are still valid today. What I am trying to say is, a lot of experience is gained by travelling around to different companies and different areas of the country and seeing how line work is done there. There are all kinds of ways to do any one job , fellas like Bobbo are just stating that ideas that work are ok on some properties but not others, and when questioned the reasons aren't very valid. Take the example of the insulated jumper, lets assume it has been properly tested. That being the case would it really matter if it was wrapped around a crossarm? Is there any reason it would have to be tied into an insulator. Another example, I worked for a years at utilities before becoming a contractor. A couple of years back I worked for a larger utilities hiring hall. We were on a job one night changing out poles under an outage . To get the outage a single phase 4kv had to be isolated, but the tap was made very unusual. I said , no problem open the switch , I will remove the tap by hand ( with rubbers). I was promptly told " no rubber gloving after dark, company rules". The point is company rules are different from place to place, not wrong, just different. It doesn't mean that the work procedure is wrong or unsafe , just not allowed. Take the ground to ground rubber glove rule, there are still places this rule hasn't come to yet, and as long as the lineman are properly trained and follow the work procedures, then its not an issue, it just requires a lineman to pay attention to his surroundings while he is working. I have worked in the states where gloves and sleeves are the rule, and watched guys working past their gloves, relying on their sleeves. Again the point is when guys are trained and follow the work methods correctly , and use common sense, anything can be done . The rules are different where you work and where I work, when I come work there I am expected to follow your rules, even if they are very different from what I am used to.

[psu927]

I agree with Bobbo, too many companies are taking the thinking out of linework. Some of the practices we learned years ago are still very useful today. The problem is with some of the trainers and some of the safety people. Remember the old saying, " those that can do, those that can't , teach. " A lot of the young fellas today, don't think about what they are doing. Heck I worked with one young journeyman ( just topped out) relocate a single phase 27.6kv dead end to a new pole with rope blocks, and he didn't know any better. Common sense , a knowledge of your equipment , and a bit of thinking will get an awful lot of work done. Treat your equipment properly. Rubber up where you need too, plan your work, work smarter not harder, use the equipment you have properly, and the right attitude, and a good lineman can do anything , safely and efficiently!


Common sense-something a company wants you to use but not have. Or something like that.

[bobbo]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here bobbo. Are you that set against company policy? Are you that set against training? I'm not sure I understand where you and rob8210 are coming from.
From your post above; "Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out." Where did you learn how to think it out? Where did you get the basis for this type of thinking? Did you figure it out all by yourself, or did someone "train" you when you were a young lineman?
There's a lot of company procedures, practices, and safety rules that are very good. Most training for linemen DO teach a man to think, but he has to have a good foundation to base that thinking on, just like the examples you stated. I was taught some of those old ways also, but I thank God some of them are gone too.
Sorry for disagreeing with you, but I couldn't let this pass without a comment.

i am not against any company policy or work practice that is well thought out and people enforcing it are knowledgeable. If I am untying phone do I really need 20 kv gloves and sleeves? If I am working on secondary on a lift pole or secondary pole with a million squeeze ons do I need a 4 by 4 20 kv primary blanket and 20 kv primary gloves and sleeves or can I just wear,some class 0s and cover widows on secondary with a small secondary blanket, which you are,suppose to use, because they are the right tools. If you offer stupid then I would rather wear leathers and not use any cover because to have otherwise You cause yourself greater risk to yourself and probably hi potting a house sometime, putting together little connectors and small wire with boxing gloves. A pair of Dry Kunz was the proper glove for secondary for a long time, now those are 80 dollars. Then they gave you class 0s for secondary, those are thirty dollars a piece. Now they got so cheap is you wear your primary 20 kv gloves for a #8 kearneys on streetlight, why because it's cheap. And that's stupid.

If I am working on a ring fed B phase grounded delta system is it safer to cone off my truck than ground it? And if the safety man is screaming to put a ground on the truck, and introducing a 2nd ground on delta is that a wise thing to do? Are you safer or more in danger? Now if all the personnel know the system and what to do if a truck goes hot isn't that better than having a potential bomb for the public and fellow workers?

Nobody is thinking anymore! Think! Be smarter!

[Lineman North Florida]

I don't really understand the whole wearing rubber gloves and sleeves on a dead&grounded distribution line, you either work it live ( hot ) with rubber gloves or sticks or dead ( de-energized ) and properly grounded with leather gloves, if it makes someone feel better to wear their rubber gloves while they are working on a dead and properly grounded line fine by me, but I don't need anybody telling me to do it, kinda goes hand in hand with the whole cradle to cradle rubber glove rule, whatever happened to proper training and proper use of rubber cover to do gloving work on distribution without having to wear primary gloves 24/7, I'm glad I don't work for such a company.

[US & CA Tramp]

Bobbo
I think your thoughts and examples have merit, and all of them will follow safety regulations when used in the proper scenario's you have given. There is no generic cookie cutter rule in our trade. Safety can be followed in several ways given determining the hazard an then eliminating the hazard at your point of work. The problem is most safety people are not necessarily that knowledgeable or professional enough to listen to someone that knows more than they do, such as good lineman. Management and their attorneys want to have air tight protection so they let their inexperienced safety people set irrational standards, instead of eliminating the hazard.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[bobbo]

Bobbo
I think your thoughts and examples have merit, and all of them will follow safety regulations when used in the proper scenario's you have given. There is no generic cookie cutter rule in our trade. Safety can be followed in several ways given determining the hazard an then eliminating the hazard at your point of work. The problem is most safety people are not necessarily that knowledgeable or professional enough to listen to someone that knows more than they do, such as good lineman. Management and their attorneys want to have air tight protection so they let their inexperienced safety people set irrational standards, instead of eliminating the hazard.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Instead of having these low brow double dipping retires from Po dunk places that never really had to work. Or Mr. Associates degree from Gay State Community and Vo Tech. Get a real old curmudgeon fart to police that knows the work, not the idiots now! There are too many fingers in the pie and too many egos. I just want to get the work done! That simple! If I ever hear the word "investigation" I am going to throw up, way overused term. "Watch out for kids!" When school is in session. Then in summer, the Same guy says "watch out for kids!" When the kids are out. How about just watch out for kids period and does it have to be mentioned. And I just sign the legally binding tailboard. It's a piece of papere that's it! And you fill out every little possibility to protect yourself. It has nothing to do with what you need to do, just pencil whip it and go to work. Just look up see what you have to do and do it!' Pretty simple.

[copperlineman]

Thanks for the replies, bobbo and rob. I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, you're correct in many respects. Just remember that once you're out on the job, you are responsible for your safety. Work safe!

[lewy]

Added a few more pics of stick and jibing the 44 kv

[lineman]

I just wanted to comment on what a good discussion this has been. It's nice to see the Forums being used this way.

bd

[lewy]

Another pic of stick and jibing 28kv easier than rubber gloving it