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Arc Blast
05-23-2014, 12:27 AM
So I had an outage I show up and find a bad transformer
In a wye delta bank the other two pots are covered in oil. I opt to just change out the bank. Company policy requires any new banks going up to be wye wye whenever possible. So I am unable to check rotation and going to the wye wye bank. Is there a way to make sure you get the rotation right every time in this case using vectors or other means or suggestions.

Trouble1
05-23-2014, 02:06 PM
You may have been able to get rotation with one transformer out, especially if the motors were still spinning. On delta secondaries you can still get rotation, if wye secondaries then the motors will have to be running still to get rotation. I read that somewhere, but never actually tried it.

The only foolproof way I know of is to shut off all three phase breakers and leave one breaker on that controls something that will not be damaged by reverse rotation and then go check that piece of equipment. It will have an arrow somewhere or air will be sucking instead of blowing, or if it's an elevator/lift it will not work. That's how I do it. Also it's good to have the electrician there because he can pick what equipment to check.

If there is absolutely nobody around to help in the building, then we leave them off until a maintenance guy or electrician shows up.

Pootnaigle
05-23-2014, 02:41 PM
Umm yes they make a rotation testor that will indicate rotation when hooked to the load also its hard to read because it has some lites that dont show up well in daylight

urban1095
05-23-2014, 11:05 PM
So I had an outage I show up and find a bad transformer
In a wye delta bank the other two pots are covered in oil. I opt to just change out the bank. Company policy requires any new banks going up to be wye wye whenever possible. So I am unable to check rotation and going to the wye wye bank. Is there a way to make sure you get the rotation right every time in this case using vectors or other means or suggestions.

We always check rotation with a rotation meter, and usually mark it in meter can. You could run it open delta to get rotation. What's the big deal about delta sec.?

Electriceel
05-23-2014, 11:33 PM
All new construction we are to get rotation and leave it in meter sockets, CT cabinets of each customer on that bank.
Wye secondaries only for new customers.

Not sure why the utility would up and change existing customers secondary voltages, their could be some issues with customers old equipment and motor starters.

Arc Blast
05-27-2014, 07:21 PM
Our coops main customers are all farms with big irrigation pumps we require them to use motor savers so if the voltage runs excessively high or low or if you lose a phase it shuts the motor off to keep them from burning up. Were changing them out I guess because the wye wye banks are supposedly more efficient. Also the customers equipment doesn't see the phase to ground voltages of the banks. The 240 volt or the 277. I dealt with this situation again today and I think I have it figured. All our x formers are subtractive polarity. If the h1 are the energized bushings on the wye delta bank then the service leg moves to the can with the x1Bushing that is directly below the h1. So all your service legs move counterclockwise on the wye wye bank to keep rotation. This worked for me today. So in theory if your h2s were the energized bushings on the wye delta your service legs would move to the tubs clockwise on your wye wye banks. I am certain its just a matter of time till I get a chance to test this theory.

rob8210
05-29-2014, 04:12 PM
I have not built a new bank with delta secondary voltage in many years. The utilities here want to supply a neutral to the customer, its up to the customer whether or not he uses it. I do remember a commercial plaza feed from a 600v delta secondary bank that was a constant trouble call, grounds on the secondaries blowing fuses. Problem was there were 10 or 12 customers off this bank. Made for interesting trouble shooting!

Darkenedforest
08-09-2014, 12:36 AM
It seems to me in theory the rotation shouldn't change if all other factors are the same.

Your primary is rotating in one particular direction. Call it clockwise ABC. In a particular moment in time if A has a phase angle of 0 then secondary a should also have a phase angle of 0 (or 30° angular displacement in the case of wye delta, but for the sake of the explanation that doesn't matter because it's still proportional). Now as the angle of each phase changes B is then next to reach an angle of 0 and that causes a phase angle of 0 to be induce on your secondary coil b. Finally C reaches angle 0, thus inducing a phase angle of 0 on c. A coil is a coil whether it's x1 to x2, x1 to x3, or x1 to x75. So it follows that if the primary is rotating the same in each scenerio then it would be inducing that rotation onto the secondaries abc of each bank the same.

As to the polarity, that should not affect the rotation. Polarity tells you the direction the secondary coil is wound relative to the primary coil but that coil will still be at a particular phase angle relative to the primary coil. So abc should be the same as ABC, the current will just be flowing in the opposite direction.

Of course it's entirely possible I am completely wrong.

trigger
10-29-2014, 10:59 PM
We have always had the habit of writing the phasing in the meter ses ABC and a arrow with direction of CW or CCW. All sec color taped or older apps taped 1-2 or 3 tape marks with black or gray tape

Old Line Dog
10-30-2014, 09:24 PM
So I had an outage I show up and find a bad transformer
In a wye delta bank the other two pots are covered in oil. Is the Oil on the other 2 transformers from the blown one? Which one Blew on the closed Delta? One of the wing pots or the main pot? Why did you opt to change all 3 Transformers?

T-Man
11-02-2014, 09:00 AM
Rotation and phase angle and position are two different parts of three phase transformer wiring. You can change rotation by changing two primary phases or messing with the secondary connections. Delta is a three wire connection, usually 240 or 477 voltages. Wye connections are 4 wire connections that include a neutral grounded leg and the 3 phase voltage is usually 208 or 416. Customers that use three phase should have motors or equipment that is designed to operate in one direction, so finding rotation is important. in future applications it's a good policy to mark rotation in a convenient location so if you change out the source you know which way to set up the new set. You can turn off all the breakers on the customers side then energize the tub and only turn on one breaker to one motor to see if it turns in the correct direction. Usually larger 3 phase motors have an arrow on their case showing their correct rotation. Wye and Delta can rotate in the same direction the voltage may be a problem in some cases. You can use vectoring, rotation meters, and trial and error as long as your not damaging customer equipment.

Old Line Dog
11-02-2014, 09:40 PM
Rotation and phase angle and position are two different parts of three phase transformer wiring. You can change rotation by changing two primary phases or messing with the secondary connections. Delta is a three wire connection, usually 240 or 477 voltages. Wye connections are 4 wire connections that include a neutral grounded leg and the 3 phase voltage is usually 208 or 416. Customers that use three phase should have motors or equipment that is designed to operate in one direction, so finding rotation is important. in future applications it's a good policy to mark rotation in a convenient location so if you change out the source you know which way to set up the new set. You can turn off all the breakers on the customers side then energize the tub and only turn on one breaker to one motor to see if it turns in the correct direction. Usually larger 3 phase motors have an arrow on their case showing their correct rotation. Wye and Delta can rotate in the same direction the voltage may be a problem in some cases. You can use vectoring, rotation meters, and trial and error as long as your not damaging customer equipment.

While all that may be true Ray....I'm still wondering why Blast changed out all 3 transformers??? AND...where did al the Oil come from???

lewy
11-03-2014, 06:22 AM
The original poster could have possibly hooked it up open delta to get his rotation, then hung his new wye bank. It mite be the same as us in that we don't hook up delta secondaries anymore, if we get a bad 600 delta bank with 1 bad transformer we have to change the whole bank as well as we don't carry straight 600 transformers anymore only 347, so we hook them up 347/600 and they only use the 600.

T-Man
11-03-2014, 06:32 AM
Good point Lewy, an open Delta would have given the customer service at about 57% of the original capacity. They could cut back and continue till a replacement tub/s could arrive on site.

Old Line Dog
11-04-2014, 10:33 PM
So I had an outage I show up and find a bad transformer
In a wye delta bank the other two pots are covered in oil. I opt to just change out the bank. Company policy requires any new banks going up to be wye wye whenever possible. So I am unable to check rotation and going to the wye wye bank. Is there a way to make sure you get the rotation right every time in this case using vectors or other means or suggestions. I think this thread has got REAL off topic, from THIS original Post. FIRST...why did Blast change out all three transformers? Which Transformer Blew? All this "What is the Rotation Crap"...is only being talked about, because Blast changed out ALL transformers...I repeat...WHICH Transformer Blew???? I would have never, changed out all 3 Transformers. Therefore...NO "Rotation problem". My call?? BAD Call!!! Changin out all 3 transformers.

splinter
11-05-2014, 07:28 AM
I think something is amiss here, don't think you would just change voltages on a customer without letting them know to start with.

Trouble1
11-05-2014, 12:07 PM
You can keep the same voltage and switch from wye/delta to wye/wye. Like rob says, it's up to the customer how they want to use the service. If there was a ground on it before you change the bank, it might get exciting.

Seems like every large company is starting to do this.

Old Line Dog
11-11-2014, 10:54 PM
So I had an outage I show up and find a bad transformer
In a wye delta bank the other two pots are covered in oil. I opt to just change out the bank. Company policy requires any new banks going up to be wye wye whenever possible. So I am unable to check rotation and going to the wye wye bank. Is there a way to make sure you get the rotation right every time in this case using vectors or other means or suggestions.

I guess I'm just not really understanding your "company's" Policy Blast. the Wye/Wye Bank and the Wye/Delta Bank have 2 COMPLETELY Different reasons for being. All your "Rotation" questions aside...A Wye/Delta Bank is designed for Large amounts of 3 phase loads and moderate amounts of single phase loads. A Wye/Wye bank is designed for Large amounts of single phase loads and a moderate amount of 3 phase load. Are you a Rural Lineman? I'm sorry bud...I just don't understand your "company's" policy...basically, make everything a 208 Wye bank.... I ain't makin fun....I'm just tryin to understand, what to ME...is Fcuked up thinking. Course,....I ain't an "Engineer". :-)

lewy
11-11-2014, 11:50 PM
[QUOTE=Old Line Dog;144238]I guess I'm just not really understanding your "company's" Policy Blast. the Wye/Wye Bank and the Wye/Delta Bank have 2 COMPLETELY Different reasons for being. All your "Rotation" questions aside...A Wye/Delta Bank is designed for Large amounts of 3 phase loads and moderate amounts of single phase loads. A Wye/Wye bank is designed for Large amounts of single phase loads and a moderate amount of 3 phase load. Are you a Rural Lineman? I'm sorry bud...I just don't understand your "company's" policy...basically, make everything a 208 Wye bank.... I ain't makin fun....I'm just tryin to understand, what to ME...is Fcuked up thinking. Course,....I ain't an "Engineer". :-)[/QUOTE

Really I never heard that before all our big customers get 347/600, very few get 120/208 and no new customers can get a delta service.

Trouble1
11-12-2014, 06:25 PM
I guess I'm just not really understanding your "company's" Policy Blast. the Wye/Wye Bank and the Wye/Delta Bank have 2 COMPLETELY Different reasons for being. All your "Rotation" questions aside...A Wye/Delta Bank is designed for Large amounts of 3 phase loads and moderate amounts of single phase loads. A Wye/Wye bank is designed for Large amounts of single phase loads and a moderate amount of 3 phase load. Are you a Rural Lineman? I'm sorry bud...I just don't understand your "company's" policy...basically, make everything a 208 Wye bank.... I ain't makin fun....I'm just tryin to understand, what to ME...is Fcuked up thinking. Course,....I ain't an "Engineer". :-)

I think you are misunderstanding. 120/208 will always be replaced with 120/208. Nobody is replacing 240 delta with 120/208. What most companies are doing now is replacing straight delta 240 or 480 services with 138/240 or 277/480 and leaving the neutral off at the building. Basically giving them the same service except not delta anymore. I've heard it saves money somehow.

Pootnaigle
11-12-2014, 06:43 PM
Ummm it seems a great many outfits will no longer build a wye delta bank cause they are succeptible to ferroresonance with todays higer distribution voltages

Old Line Dog
11-12-2014, 10:39 PM
I think you are misunderstanding. 120/208 will always be replaced with 120/208. Nobody is replacing 240 delta with 120/208. What most companies are doing now is replacing straight delta 240 or 480 services with 138/240 or 277/480 and leaving the neutral off at the building. Basically giving them the same service except not delta anymore. I've heard it saves money somehow.I might be. The Original poster never mentioned the voltage of the bank he chose to change all three transformers out on. Would be helpful if he did....sometimes people just don't really give "all the information" to have an intelligent discussion.

Old Line Dog
11-12-2014, 10:45 PM
Ummm it seems a great many outfits will no longer build a wye delta bank cause they are succeptible to ferroresonance with todays higer distribution voltages I'd sure like to hear or read where you got that information. Are you telling me, that on a 13.8KV Wye Primary distribution system....company's are no longer building Closed Delta Banks, for places like machine shops, Auto Body shops....where there is a lot more 3 phase load than single phase load? What the Fcuk kind of banks are they building for secondary 3 phase load?

Pootnaigle
11-13-2014, 12:53 AM
you are exactly right Greg no more wye delta bnks even on nominal voltge primary they are thinking ahead so that later on voltages greater than 13 kv can be used

T-Man
11-13-2014, 06:19 AM
I think you are misunderstanding. 120/208 will always be replaced with 120/208. Nobody is replacing 240 delta with 120/208. What most companies are doing now is replacing straight delta 240 or 480 services with 138/240 or 277/480 and leaving the neutral off at the building. Basically giving them the same service except not delta anymore. I've heard it saves money somehow.

That's correct Trouble1, I must have fallen into a senior moment and totally forgot about the 138.5 wound tubs. The voltage will be 240 or 480 but the phase angles will be 30 degrees out. You can replace a delta with a wye bank just keep the rotation the same. Thanks for clearing that up.

rob8210
11-13-2014, 04:29 PM
The original question is about maintaining phase rotation. Rotation doesn't care what the voltage is. So when you take rotation on an existing 3 phase service , you simply hook up the new bank to give the same rotation. Normally we have a clockwise rotation , that's all that matters when hooking it back up.

Trouble1
11-13-2014, 07:48 PM
I think what the original poster is getting at now that I've thought about it for a while is if you change the bank from 240 delta to 138/240 wye, will rotation be the same without checking. That's my best guess. If the delta bank fails and you replace it with wye and there is no tape on the service so you do not know how it should be hooked up now. I think that is the scenario.

This happens a lot where I am because we are getting rid of all-in-one three phase transformers. We just turn the breaker on to an air handler or something with an arrow on the motor and see if it's going clockwise.

Old Line Dog
11-13-2014, 09:48 PM
you are exactly right Greg no more wye delta bnks even on nominal voltge primary they are thinking ahead so that later on voltages greater than 13 kv can be used

I'll be GD'ed. Isn't that inefficient as hell for the customer??? Like anybody gives a carp.... a 240 motor sure runs more efficient on a delta 240 secondary, as opposed to a 208 Wye. So basically....everything is goin Wye/Wye? With the occasional open delta....Huh.

Old Line Dog
12-04-2014, 10:55 PM
I'll be GD'ed. Isn't that inefficient as hell for the customer??? Like anybody gives a carp.... a 240 motor sure runs more efficient on a delta 240 secondary, as opposed to a 208 Wye. So basically....everything is goin Wye/Wye? With the occasional open delta....Huh. Ok...So...I'll ask again. WHY ..."No more" Wye/Delta banks Poot? I want to understand, the mentality. Am I wrong in thinking a 240 volt motor, runs LESS efficient on a 208 Wye/Wye Bank? Sorry poot...I don't understand your "later on voltages greater than 13 kv can be used". I've built Wye/Delta banks on 23 KV systems. Wye? Delta. Secondary...Closed Delta...240 Volts. Maby I just been retired too long......Back in My Day...A Closed Delta Bank, was for places like "machine shops", Places with LARGE Amounts of 3 phase loads, and small to moderate amounts of single phase loads. A 208 Wye bank was for large amounts of single phase loads, and small to moderate amounts of 3 phase loads. BUT...the Banks were tailored For maxium efficiency for the CUSTOMER. I wonder if you know the effenciency Difference between a Wye and a Delta secondary bank. And what your opinion of the 2 is.

Pootnaigle
12-05-2014, 12:06 AM
The way it was splained to me was Ferroresonance gets involved on any wye delta application on voltages over 13 Kv and prolly also on them just not with such devastating effects.I am sure you did build a few wye delta banks on higher voltage stuff but that dont mean there wernt prollems that followed rite along with em. as far as effeciency I aint gotta clue but it stands to reason that a 240 volt mtr would run better on 240v than 208.In my area the only drawback was 480 v secondary could no longer be offered to the customer They cud get 277/ 480 which was built wye wye but no straight 480 with the grounded leg. But a few pf us put on our thinkin hats n found a way to get 480 with a grounded leg out of 3 277v pots built wye wye

T-Man
12-05-2014, 07:53 AM
OLD, they use 138.5 secondary tubs to get the 240 volts when they are hooked up wye. the secondary connections in the tub can be connected series or parallel. ours are marked (a, b, c and d.) if you connect (b to c) the result is a series connection and the secondary winding is longer to make 480 wye. if you connect (a to c and b to d) you have a parallel connection which will result in a 240 volt wye connection. I believe Poot is right about deltas on higher voltages causing Ferroresonance. I also think there was concern at the bottom line to have package three phase tubs on some voltages that had to be replaced, when you could store cheaper single phase tubs and just replace the defective one and not store a bunch of high dollar special units in case something happened. which cut down on outage time and costs.

Old Line Dog
12-05-2014, 10:47 PM
OLD, they use 138.5 secondary tubs to get the 240 volts when they are hooked up wye. the secondary connections in the tub can be connected series or parallel. ours are marked (a, b, c and d.) if you connect (b to c) the result is a series connection and the secondary winding is longer to make 480 wye. if you connect (a to c and b to d) you have a parallel connection which will result in a 240 volt wye connection. I believe Poot is right about deltas on higher voltages causing Ferroresonance. I also think there was concern at the bottom line to have package three phase tubs on some voltages that had to be replaced, when you could store cheaper single phase tubs and just replace the defective one and not store a bunch of high dollar special units in case something happened. which cut down on outage time and costs.

I guess I just really don't follow ya Ray. "138.5 secondary tubs to get the 240 volts when they are hooked up wye.????" Ya hook up a Wye/Delta Bank...ya get 120/240. And the wing pots can both be a smaller size than the main pot. Ya hook up a Wye/Wye Bank, splt the 3 pots AC/BD...all of the pots are the same size...ya got a 3 phase bank of 120/208, and that siht is inefficient as he$$ with a 240 volt motor. So....I guess I don't understand this....not building wye/delta banks anymore.

T-Man
12-06-2014, 07:00 AM
A way to diagram it would be cool. . . .the windings on the secondary of these tubs are 138.5 volts, (not standard 120/240 tubs). you can look at voltage as length. if you connect three of them in a wye, lets say all the H1 bushings are tied and grounded and the H2's are to a phase, the secondary windings are also tied in a wye X1's connected together at a common point and the X3's are the phase legs. when you measure from one secondary X3 winding to another X3, due to Pythagorean theory, (the windings are vectored at 120 degrees), the distance between the secondary windings becomes 240volts. if you series connect the secondary windings in each tub, the length of the secondary winding doubles from X1 to X3, which increases the length to 277 (138.5 +138.5 = 277) and the distance from those X3's become 480.

Old Line Dog
12-13-2014, 10:55 PM
A way to diagram it would be cool. . . .the windings on the secondary of these tubs are 138.5 volts, (not standard 120/240 tubs). you can look at voltage as length. if you connect three of them in a wye, lets say all the H1 bushings are tied and grounded and the H2's are to a phase, the secondary windings are also tied in a wye X1's connected together at a common point and the X3's are the phase legs. when you measure from one secondary X3 winding to another X3, due to Pythagorean thermo, (the windings are vectored at 120 degrees), the distance between the secondary windings becomes 240volts. if you series connect the secondary windings in each tub, the length of the secondary winding doubles from X1 to X3, which increases the length to 277 (138.5 +138.5 = 277) and the distance from those X3's become 480.

What EVER you just said...is a "Mystery to me":D Fleetwood Mac... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-2g9qf0Ds A business that ran on a 3 phase, 120/240 closed delta bank....is LESS Efficient to the customer, when they are put on a 208 Wye/Wye bank. It will cost the customer MORE money on their electric service.

T-Man
12-15-2014, 05:25 AM
What EVER you just said...is a "Mystery to me":D Fleetwood Mac... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-2g9qf0Ds A business that ran on a 3 phase, 120/240 closed delta bank....is LESS Efficient to the customer, when they are put on a 208 Wye/Wye bank. It will cost the customer MORE money on their electric service.

Your 100% right DOG. . . .But these are two different style transformers. 120/240 wound tubs can make 240 delta or 120/208 wye. What I'm talking about is a 138.5 wound secondary tub, and you can make 240 wye out of those.

Trouble1
12-15-2014, 01:37 PM
How many times does it need to be explained? If you put one of these online by itself it would get 138.5/240, not 120/240. You get 138.5 volts to from any high side to neutral in the bank when they are connected.

If it's a 240 volt bank made of 3 120/240's, you will get the same reading(138.5 to ground, but this means nothing) except there is not real reference to ground/neutral.

Exact same service 240v, except one has a real ground reference, and one is just a reading on the meter that means nothing really.

With three 120/240's the 240 bank can run with one accidental ground, with three 138/240's, the service will fault when the first accidental ground is introduced since it is already grounded being a wye bank.

It will stay 240v as far as the customer is concerned so it does not really matter to the customer unless they were running with an accidental ground, which they will have to find after the new wye 240v bank is put online because it will fault.

rob8210
12-19-2014, 06:27 AM
That would be the reason why they decided to build nothing but wye banks up here, to reduce the possibility of an accidental ground.

Old Line Dog
01-04-2015, 09:57 PM
What do ya do for a customer that wants an Open delta bank? I still don't understand the 138.5 volts. Seems a voltage like that would fry light bulbs, daily. I got a 50 KV URD tub, feedin my house and about 6 others. Just 120/240. "KISS" Keep it Simple Stupid.

climbsomemore
01-14-2015, 04:36 PM
What do ya do for a customer that wants an Open delta bank? I still don't understand the 138.5 volts. Seems a voltage like that would fry light bulbs, daily. I got a 50 KV URD tub, feedin my house and about 6 others. Just 120/240. "KISS" Keep it Simple Stupid.

The "customer" doesn't ask for Two transformers vs Three.

A utility or somebody who's PAYING for the pot, Extra Switch and Arrestor and 3rd phase if it's not already there is the only person who cares.

Old Line Dog
01-29-2015, 10:42 PM
The "customer" doesn't ask for Two transformers vs Three.

A utility or somebody who's PAYING for the pot, Extra Switch and Arrestor and 3rd phase if it's not already there is the only person who cares.

Mr. Clumsum, I been retired since...2001 bud.:D I got called back to do Storm work in Ike for 3 weeks, 7 days a week, 16 hrs a day. After that....I really retired!! Sorry bud...maby I was just too simple for ya. There are just SO many different situations that require 3 phase power....I sure didn't mean to imply ANYBODY but the power Company...could make that decision.:D

climbsomemore
02-10-2015, 05:22 PM
In addition old Swampy... building a "closed delta" bank creates a problem with back feed on a 3 phase feeder when one phase falls down ahead of the bank location . The marriage feeds hot primary back to the stub side of the break.

Also.. when a "wing pot " fails on a closed bank the other 2 become an over loaded open connection for all practical purposes.

As you have proven...any idiot can run a set of jonnie block and clip wire.. pull pole stub with a ground rod an bull dog grip.

Your talent of getting some last word in is a god given talent.

The longer you stay the lighter the traffic becomes here.

Old Line Dog
02-11-2015, 07:10 PM
As you have proven...any idiot can run a set of jonnie block and clip wire.. pull pole stub with a ground rod an bull dog grip.

Your talent of getting some last word in is a god given talent.

The longer you stay the lighter the traffic be comes here. Any idiot huh, mouth organ? I've been retired for 14 years. You ain't gonna bait me boy. I've watched linework turn into basically a job about any anybody with good health, physically fit, and half a brain can do nowdays. There ain't no thinkin Linemen no more. Follow the print. You ain't no engineer, just build what the print says. That's all the companys want nowdays. And like you have proven...any idiot can run his mouth like he's "all that". Go $%#& yourself. Maby the "Lighter Traffic" is because there's basically only one buffoon that seems to post completely irrevelant crap here anymore. And the fact, that the site has become so politically correct....ya can't post anything or have any discussion about anything but linework. THAT has been that way for years. Ya can only talk so much Linework. The way this site is run nowdays.... And then you...come up and post a post like you just did. I don't see you contributing siht to this site. I use to be a Journeyman Lineman...14 years ago. Linework has changed. I loved it and enjoyed it. And I'm glad I got out when I did. Thanks for comin back and baitin me. Nice to see I hold a place in your memory. :-) And that your dislike for me comes up every once in awhile and ya can't help but post something to bait. :-) "Still Here" clumbboy.

US & CA Tramp
02-12-2015, 09:41 AM
Give them hell!!! Sould we talk about the price of gas?? ;)

Rob
02-12-2015, 12:15 PM
Now you had to go and mention Gas! That'll cost us a hundred or so posts!

US & CA Tramp
02-13-2015, 04:03 PM
Now you had to go and mention Gas! That'll cost us a hundred or so posts!

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha :)

Old Line Dog
02-13-2015, 10:48 PM
So...where'd ya go clumbsome? Just drop your little "Late nite" turd....remembering me...and then just fade away? Dman..... You felt it necessary to "Poke"... at a month old thread. Now...Ya Pussie out, and don't want to talk any more? Come on "Big Boy". Talk to this "retired" old burnt out...use to be Lineman! YOU the man!!:-)

SBatts
12-22-2015, 06:06 AM
OLD, they use 138.5 secondary tubs to get the 240 volts when they are hooked up wye. the secondary connections in the tub can be connected series or parallel. ours are marked (a, b, c and d.) if you connect (b to c) the result is a series connection and the secondary winding is longer to make 480 wye. if you connect (a to c and b to d) you have a parallel connection which will result in a 240 volt wye connection. I believe Poot is right about deltas on higher voltages causing Ferroresonance. I also think there was concern at the bottom line to have package three phase tubs on some voltages that had to be replaced, when you could store cheaper single phase tubs and just replace the defective one and not store a bunch of high dollar special units in case something happened. which cut down on outage time and costs.

Go splain to Swamprat slowly Start with ALLEY CAT/BAD DOG, and go from there.

SBatts
12-22-2015, 06:27 AM
So...where'd ya go clumbsome? Just drop your little "Late nite" turd....remembering me...and then just fade away? Dman..... You felt it necessary to "Poke"... at a month old thread. Now...Ya Pussie out, and don't want to talk any more? Come on "Big Boy". Talk to this "retired" old burnt out...use to be Lineman! YOU the man!!:-)

IT WAS me,and Danny Brown blowing your your misconceptions of line work all to hell. Remember you tripping up a floating WYE high side,

Talked to Danny about an hour last week.I ask Danny to post, but he said you were no fun anymore. TOO EASY.
:D

Old Line Dog
12-22-2015, 06:35 PM
IT WAS me,and Danny Brown blowing your your misconceptions of line work all to hell.
Poor Danny...That boy always seemed a few fries short of a happy meal. Probably why you liked him so much. :D Bein as he won't come back to "play", maby you can bring back the old Canadian. I could ask him if now that Canada has completely gone Left with another Trudeau...maby he would like Canada to become a state in 'merica.:D Good to see your fat ass is still alive! Is the Canadian? He hasen't even logged on since 3/13. I'd be surprised if he's even still around. How's that "protest Board" workin out? Ya know...the one the Canadian created when all you pompous union guys made when ya left Powerlineman.com?:rolleyes: All 28 members of ya.....heh, heh, heh..:p

1245hand
12-22-2015, 11:53 PM
OLD's forgotten more than most of us ever knew. Been retired since 2001 and still preaching his old school knowledge- line work's still done the same way. Not true. It's kinda like having the lineman that's spent the last 15 yrs of his career in the office tell you how to do your job. In one ear and out the other.

I've seen line work change more in the last 10 years than in the first 25 of my career.

I admire Swampy for not wanting to let go of his past, but that's what it is- the past.

Swamp, relax. Don't run off the young guys. Being retired 14 years must be great. Batts sounds relaxed.

Reppy will be back soon.

Merry Christmas!

SBatts
12-23-2015, 08:28 AM
OLD's forgotten more than most of us ever knew. Been retired since 2001 and still preaching his old school knowledge- line work's still done the same way. Not true. It's kinda like having the lineman that's spent the last 15 yrs of his career in the office tell you how to do your job. In one ear and out the other.

I've seen line work change more in the last 10 years than in the first 25 of my career.

I admire Swampy for not wanting to let go of his past, but that's what it is- the past.

Swamp, relax. Don't run off the young guys. Being retired 14 years must be great. Batts sounds relaxed.

Reppy will be back soon.

Merry Christmas!
20 MILES EAST, 30 miles hot 69 converting to 161kva, with hot under build. PAR, with all new equipment $38 PLUS AND SUB. All overtime plus. Friends Working 25 miles north, pole change out 500 poles plus TIME JOB. Talk with the hands daily from 1245 and 47, dumb asses making boo coo money, and not saving a dime for rainy days. 1245 do you know retired SCE lineman Bruce Thompson? After my second retirement as Kansas Safety Director, messed around teaching small REA companies CPR, basic first aid and A-fib. Then this year was a bad year at poker table, with no loses to deduct, so tax time will kill me on $21 K in winnings.
But for Swampy, he can't forget, what he never knew, and him saying Danny Brown was a few brick shy. Well Danny was was of the sharpest nonunion/union lineman on this board........
1245, didn't I meet you at the International Rodeo, in 2008 while you were still an apprentice? Might have you confused with another 1245 hand.

Old Line Dog
12-23-2015, 09:44 AM
OLD's forgotten more than most of us ever knew. Been retired since 2001 and still preaching his old school knowledge
I admire Swampy for not wanting to let go of his past, but that's what it is- the past.


Yup, you're right man. I'm just happy I was raised in the old line work, and got to work in the greatest trade out there! PC line work of today...Not so much. Even some of my apprentices are bout ready to throw in the towel. :-((

shaneb73
12-24-2015, 03:30 AM
Yep, go ahead and build it, then come back when someone can be inside checking as you throw it in! Preferably an employee of that facility so they can sign off on it. ALWAYS make sure THEY say it's all good in the hood before leaving, even if you're putting something back together exactly the same way it was. I even right names down! You aren't pinning that 5000$ motor that's been spinning backwards for 8 hrs. then blew up, on me Foo!

Old Line Dog
12-25-2015, 10:10 PM
Yep, go ahead and build it, then come back when someone can be inside checking as you throw it in! Preferably an employee of that facility so they can sign off on it. ALWAYS make sure THEY say it's all good in the hood before leaving, even if you're putting something back together exactly the same way it was. I even right names down! You aren't pinning that 5000$ motor that's been spinning backwards for 8 hrs. then blew up, on me Foo!What?.....

Orgnizdlbr
12-26-2015, 11:41 AM
Yep, go ahead and build it, then come back when someone can be inside checking as you throw it in! Preferably an employee of that facility so they can sign off on it. ALWAYS make sure THEY say it's all good in the hood before leaving, even if you're putting something back together exactly the same way it was. I even right names down! You aren't pinning that 5000$ motor that's been spinning backwards for 8 hrs. then blew up, on me Foo!

really?...