It's time to get out

[bobbo]

When you have to wear gloves sleeves and booties to soft side triplex on a house it's time to get out! When tree trimmers can't touch trees with wire and their job is line clearance trimmer, it's time to get out. Every year there gets a new wrinkle making this job a lot harder. And there is always someone out there who can tell you how to do your job that has never done it, because he can't and won't and doesn't know. I feel outnumbered with those that can't. They somehow got in charge. We use to shake the guys out that can't. Now they have polysyllabic titles and over abundant egos patrolling our right of ways. I just want to do my job with the least amount of bull****. Never seen a primary fire. Never seen anyone hurt on my crew. Doing this everyday for twenty years. I think it has something to do with the corporatization of our industry. Layers and layers of people, government and utilities, too many rules with no common sense. Rules that trump other rules to reduce liability for everyone but the guy doing the work. Yea the paycheck is great. But it isn't worth it anymore. I loved this job when I started because it took a lot of problem solving and intellect. Now that's taken away from me. Some one screaming you need a gut and I am 8 feet clear. Someone saying you need more cones and a couple more signs, when they are the only vehicle that passed in the last 2 hours. We used to do construction, rebuild and reconductor whole circuits. Now I am trying to figure out how to fit an arrestor on a 60 year old pole. So old and she'll rot it can't even hold a staple. Nobody wants to hear there is an infrastructure deficit. It's cheaper to have factories overseas, not only the labor part, but the infrastructure part. A company pays less tax and utilities somewhere else and pay nothing in labor. We have so much overhead now, how many pick ups do we need out there and how many supervisors? We used to have to support a GF, an office girl,'and a yard dog. Now you can't fit your digger and bucket because there are so many pick up trucks in the way. Counting down my days!

[bren guzzi]

I've been doing it over 33 years now. The best saying I've ever heard is this " THOSE THAT CAN..DO...THOSE THAT CANT, TEACH"

[rob8210]

Yep but the real problem is - those that can't don't just teach anymore. They are becoming safety men and telling everybody what they can and can't do!

[Orgnizdlbr]

[QUOTE=rob8210;143018]Yep but the real problem is - those that can't don't just teach anymore. They are becoming safety men and telling everybody what they can and can't do![/]

aint that the truth....... In the business 42 years and every day it's another moronic rule thought up and instituted by another moron who has never been in the tools.....

Bobbo is right, time to get out!!

[bobbo]

Yep but the real problem is - those that can't don't just teach anymore. They are becoming safety men and telling everybody what they can and can't do!

For the last three years every corner has been built ******* that I have worked. People are dying because they build a switch with the line and load side reversed. So many people don't care about anything. The old school **** is gone. Three fourths of the utilities don't know their phasing because it has been so ******* built for so long. Just burned out and tired of it all. We lost a lot of knowledge in the last twenty years. The money is too good. And instead of getting the best in the trade. We got the best politickers and bulls hitters. It would be fine if I was left alone and I can do my job. But it's not like that. Who ever can bull**** the best sucks the best wins in this trade. And that's how it is. The men that can do things are gone, they retired. And ai am waiting for the guys who care about doing **** right to win. But they never do. They lose all the time. It's bull****.

Simple **** America. A is northeast, c southwest. X northwest, z southeast. Feed high, load low. Don't buck. There aren't too many systems that are not bucked. Why? They don't maintain it. Then you go buy your ticket somewhere, politick, suck. . C. Build ******* everywhere. I learned with the old timers and the old guys,are,rolling in their graves.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm and couple that with the latest trend to place people completely outta their depth in supervisory positions and they all have the same ideas that the last 10 of their predeccessors had , implemented, and proved not to work we are going backwards in a hurry

[bobbo]

Everyday I hit an old man no no. Let me climb a can pole with a secondary riser with 4 inch u guard. Of all the places they put it, right under the switch ! Too replace the switch and arrestor I had to put my feet between the secondary leads. Stupid. How about under the can or opposite of the equipment like well thought out places. Thank god it was during the day. Feel sorry for the poor guy at night doing that. Everyday see a trap. And it's built by men making 40 plus an hour. That's ridiculous.

the old rules:

keep the switch quarter clear. No grounds risers secondary bus.

underbuild keep the arms above the cans so you can climb to the top circuit.

coops put cans on the quater opposite of the switch. Every utility has something different, opposite traffic, you nevercan figure it out because everyone is built different.

First two take offs face the dead end.

Tap connection faces feed. Feed on top, load low.

same for bucks and single phase taps.

A northeast. x northwest.

99% nobody knows where the feed is anymore. 99% no one knows the phasing anymore. And 100% of the time the answer is rubber gloves and sleeves .

every man in the trade should follow the rules of dept. of agriculture specs. Too maintain consistency from one property to another. It is the base of engineering, staking, and quality construction. Every apprentice in the country should know the first ten pages of rules regarding of direction of line load and phasing. It would help this industry greatly!

[deer]

I applied for an apprenticeship and am awaiting the result, so I'm not in the trade yet. There isn't a standardized set of rules that line work follows? How the hell does that work? Electricians have the NEC. Seriously, what dictates how the work is done?

[birdog37]

I have to ask, does anyone have to wear a long sleeve shirt under rubber sleeves when rubber gloving? Yes buttoned down all the way when its 95....

[Orgnizdlbr]

I have to ask, does anyone have to wear a long sleeve shirt under rubber sleeves when rubber gloving? Yes buttoned down all the way when its 95....

yes i do...........

[US & CA Tramp]

I applied for an apprenticeship and am awaiting the result, so I'm not in the trade yet. There isn't a standardized set of rules that line work follows? How the hell does that work? Electricians have the NEC. Seriously, what dictates how the work is done?


Osha Regulations, !910.269 For maintanence and 1926.subpart V for construction, and the NESC.

[thrasher]

What many people don't understand is OSHA 1910.269 and Subpart V are Safety Rules, which means they are 90% manufacturer standards and things you can't do. Not really how you do the work. That used to be taught by the older linemen to the younger linemen. Now at too many companies nobody is really teaching.

Birddog37
We are still allowing Short sleeve shirts under rubber sleeves but have been told that the new version of OSHA 1910.269 will not allow that in the future. I have heard that EEI (investor owned group) and NRECA (cooperative group) have jointly sued OSHA on several items in the new standards and the long sleeves are one of the issues.

[bobbo]

What many people don't understand is OSHA 1910.269 and Subpart V are Safety Rules, which means they are 90% manufacturer standards and things you can't do. Not really how you do the work. That used to be taught by the older linemen to the younger linemen. Now at too many companies nobody is really teaching.

Birddog37
We are still allowing Short sleeve shirts under rubber sleeves but have been told that the new version of OSHA 1910.269 will not allow that in the future. I have heard that EEI (investor owned group) and NRECA (cooperative group) have jointly sued OSHA on several items in the new standards and the long sleeves are one of the issues.

ummm. . . Can we just get **** done. Do you think any country in the world thinks like this? If I am totally isolated out, i am wearing all the bull**** and complying because I have to feed my family. When I started people just worked. Worked smart. Now if you work smart, someone gets his panties in a wad. Dumasses took over the industry. I am happy where I am at. But I know as soon as work on a road I have to put all that dumbs **** on. And the piece of paper called a tailboard, some legalese BS. If someone has to tell you every hazard and every step, you need to go home and doing something else. If you don't know what to do, how to do it, then go home. That's it.

if I cut out, I cut in. That's life.

great majority of the guys in the industry seem to think if you look at things long enough the wire will transfer itself.

and if we complied with everything we are suppose to do. You wouldn't get out of the yards by 10 am. You wouldn't turn any nuts in the air by 2 pm. When I took my pre trip inspection for my CDL it took me an hour and half. Then add on the OSHA mandated full check on you aerial lifts. Then your tool check. And the glove and sleeve inspection. And the more inspections and complicity for everyone. Gathering your material, grabbing poles, transportation to your job. Now if you didn't fill one check and something happens, you are liable. Because you probably filled out a piece of paper that you would do everything the government, the utility , and your management to comply. Because during in processing for work, they are going to pull out a sheet out of that three inch stack that you are get on your back and measure slack adjusters everyday.

everybody wants more. They want more production. More safety. More . . . Without liability or any cost. And that makes no sense, period.

[Old Line Dog]

ummm. . . Can we just get **** done. Do you think any country in the world thinks like this? If I am totally isolated out, i am wearing all the bull**** and complying because I have to feed my family. When I started people just worked. Worked smart. Now if you work smart, someone gets his panties in a wad. Dumasses took over the industry. I am happy where I am at. But I know as soon as work on a road I have to put all that dumbs **** on. And the piece of paper called a tailboard, some legalese BS. If someone has to tell you every hazard and every step, you need to go home and doing something else. If you don't know what to do, how to do it, then go home. That's it.

if I cut out, I cut in. That's life.

great majority of the guys in the industry seem to think if you look at things long enough the wire will transfer itself.

and if we complied with everything we are suppose to do. You wouldn't get out of the yards by 10 am. You wouldn't turn any nuts in the air by 2 pm. When I took my pre trip inspection for my CDL it took me an hour and half. Then add on the OSHA mandated full check on you aerial lifts. Then your tool check. And the glove and sleeve inspection. And the more inspections and complicity for everyone. Gathering your material, grabbing poles, transportation to your job. Now if you didn't fill one check and something happens, you are liable. Because you probably filled out a piece of paper that you would do everything the government, the utility , and your management to comply. Because during in processing for work, they are going to pull out a sheet out of that three inch stack that you are get on your back and measure slack adjusters everyday.

everybody wants more. They want more production. More safety. More . . . Without liability or any cost. And that makes no sense, period.

DANM Bobbo....Nice post man.

No man...We just Can't "get siht done" anymore. It has to be politically, environmentally, and socially correct.

And...BTW...don't you DARE trim those trees in the back yard of the a$$hole you were called out on that trouble call to replace the service wire...that that TREE limb brought down.....

[thrasher]

I agree man. When I started in the industry a Work order might consist of four pages of paper (1) a sketch (2) a list of the new structures per the spec book (3) materials issued and turned in and (4) a timesheet. That was all that was needed.
Now I have written Work Orders that were fifteen pages or more by the time all the permits, clearances, tailgates etc. are included. Although we did slide one loophole in our tailgate sheet. It says "This is a routine job representing no unusual threats or circumstances and standard procedures cover the work involved." So for routine jobs the guys check the box sign their name get their assignments and go to work.

[bobbo]

I agree man. When I started in the industry a Work order might consist of four pages of paper (1) a sketch (2) a list of the new structures per the spec book (3) materials issued and turned in and (4) a timesheet. That was all that was needed.
Now I have written Work Orders that were fifteen pages or more by the time all the permits, clearances, tailgates etc. are included. Although we did slide one loophole in our tailgate sheet. It says "This is a routine job representing no unusual threats or circumstances and standard procedures cover the work involved." So for routine jobs the guys check the box sign their name get their assignments and go to work.

Remember we took care of each other. Now we get points for throwing each other under the bus. It's cool. It's the way to be nowadays. It feels good to destroy someone else. Such brotherhood. It's the way to feel good now a days. Now it's cool to be tattooed wear nipple rings and wear a BAMF lineman shirt because your mother was an alcoholic junkie whose boyfriend like to molest. Now guys feel they have to overcompensate their manhood by being foreman and have no clue what they are doing. Now they build junk. ****. Utilities want us to set poles, not build circuits anymore. Now we are in conflict with their guys. Carnies build circuits. Now carny JLs don't really know their trade because we don't build circuits anymore. Now if you suck off to an idiot utility inspector, you have a great future. You barely know anything. The inspector knows less. That's life in our trade and our industry. Politics wins. And your a dumbass that doesn't set poles in a property corner but right in the middle of the lawn because it's easier to transfer. Put a riser and ground right under the switch, ******* build everything because you have BAMF lineman t shirt, tattoos and nipple rings. Cool.

[rob8210]

I guess I am lucky. Most of us here still try to look after each other, of course most of our crew is older guys, but the young ones are getting the message. Slowly. I constantly harp on building for the next guy, on trouble , in the middle of the night. I tell them it could be you and chances are it won't be me. I do it because that is the right way. Helping each other is normal , and even the young guys will help a customer, especially if she is pretty!

[bobbo]

I guess I am lucky. Most of us here still try to look after each other, of course most of our crew is older guys, but the young ones are getting the message. Slowly. I constantly harp on building for the next guy, on trouble , in the middle of the night. I tell them it could be you and chances are it won't be me. I do it because that is the right way. Helping each other is normal , and even the young guys will help a customer, especially if she is pretty!

We don't need anymore men with tattoos, a Sy Robertson beard, crazy ass ear rings, a 2 foot lift kit with line god annealed on the back window, and your whole wardrobe.is bought in lineman barn. I hope that fad goes quick. A tattoo and a t shirt doesn't make you smarter. Looking like a thug doesn't make anyone smarter. It shows you don't care about yourself, your work mates or your family. I would rather take my kids somewhere than get a thousand dollar sleeve tattoo. When you run across these guys and they look so prison. Why join this trade, just go to prison, if you want that look. Then they put flash on which they don't know what it means. I have seen a lot of webs on elbows, and narco cultura, and the guy put it on because it's cool. Can't wait til there little burg runs dry and have to work south Chicago, Compton, jersey city . They will regret those toos.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm summa thiis is our fault.... them guys shudda never been accepted into the trade enyways

[bren guzzi]

Umm summa thiis is our fault.... them guys shudda never been accepted into the trade enyways

I've a tattoo or two..
doesn't make me any less of a linesman let alone a person.
DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY THE COVER. ...if these guys aren't doing things right it's your fault..... I look after my guys an they watch my back.

[in the bucket]

I have seen first hand what it's like to work for an outfit with practically zero safety policy. Too much safety, the job takes forever but you get paid and you make it home at the end of the day, no safety, who knows if your ticket is going to be punched at any given day.

[Lineman North Florida]

I've never put to much stock into what a guy looked like, I've seen some guys that have rolled in with their boots un-laced and looked like they had just rolled in from the night before that I had my doubts about but some of them were cracker jack hands and knew more than one way to get the job done safely, now all these tatoos and t-shirts about fireman needing hero's I could care less about, as far as I'm concerned it makes us look as glory hungry as cops and fireman, and all the stickers in the back glasses of these pick-up's ( Life on the line, Hookin ain't easy, etc, etc ) all showing lineman climbing a pole, a lot of these are the same guys who are taking down fences and cutting down trees to get a bucket truck in the backyard to change out a #2 str house service. Times have changed and I don't think that most companys have the stomach to deal with the problems, it's a lot kinder and gentler trade today. Charlie.

[trigger]

I'm out. Jan. will be the last. Not done with the work, just done with superiors being inferiors and the lack of respect.

[reppy007]

I had to laugh at the story about lineman needing a bucket to change out service drops...thats funny,really sad.Nowdays a lineman doesnt get much respect,not with the people in charge...they are too busy worrying about their own a$$es and want everyone to think they are able to walk on water.....which aint going to happen!

[bobbo]

I've a tattoo or two..
doesn't make me any less of a linesman let alone a person.
DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY THE COVER. ...if these guys aren't doing things right it's your fault..... I look after my guys an they watch my back.

Some of these guys loaded themselves with toos that they bought as flash, fifty dollar quick tattoos in their small towns. Then you work with ex cons did a few stints at Folsom he will tell you whatever tattoo means. Webs on the elbows is from the Aryan brotherhood for killing a non white. Then you got the crazy ones for being gay, crazy signals and meanings. In their small towns they are badass. When they go to big cities, tattoos mean something. And your walking around with a bunch of messages that looked cool in the little Ville they are from, then they will walk in a biker bar and get killed for having the wrong tat. I see it all the time. When your 18 looking at a flash book and picking something, then you go out in the real world and your tats mean something they have no clue about. I have seen 5 to ten guys over the years have cobwebs on their elbows, and I doubt any of them killed a non white.

[gumbo]

What many people don't understand is OSHA 1910.269 and Subpart V are Safety Rules, which means they are 90% manufacturer standards and things you can't do. Not really how you do the work. That used to be taught by the older linemen to the younger linemen. Now at too many companies nobody is really teaching.

Birddog37
We are still allowing Short sleeve shirts under rubber sleeves but have been told that the new version of OSHA 1910.269 will not allow that in the future. I have heard that EEI (investor owned group) and NRECA (cooperative group) have jointly sued OSHA on several items in the new standards and the long sleeves are one of the issues.

Are they suing them over the flash shields to work primary? That is going to eat into production in the summers when the EMS will be hauling off all the sunstroke victims. Oh well, maybe we'll all start doing this work deenergized.........it must be too dangerous to rubber glove anymore. I always bring up hotsticking when the safety pukes tell me how to make this job safer. Back in the 80s before 1245, 47, 17, etc, etc ......give away their sticks, the safety record spoke for itself. They never seem to want to talk much about that though.

[bobbo]

Are they suing them over the flash shields to work primary? That is going to eat into production in the summers when the EMS will be hauling off all the sunstroke victims. Oh well, maybe we'll all start doing this work deenergized.........it must be too dangerous to rubber glove anymore. I always bring up hotsticking when the safety pukes tell me how to make this job safer. Back in the 80s before 1245, 47, 17, etc, etc ......give away their sticks, the safety record spoke for itself. They never seem to want to talk much about that though.

Rubber gloves cradle to cradle and butt to butt. I'd you hot sticked there would be no need for any of the rules. AK, WA and OR have very few electrical contact fatalities. Because they haul the essential sticks. We took away a safer practice away because we had to compete with the non union. Because they primarily gloved. We have the equipment to stick, with the warheads to clip. Nobody has anything to dead end or connect. I haven't seen a hand, holding stick, or ratcheting got cutter stick for ten years. I say if the rules get more ridiculous bring back the stick trailer! There will be flashes and fires but no electrical contact deaths! The leaders of our industry fight logic. We practiced this work safely for a long time, and they went to gloves because it takes less skill and we can be more productive. Now it's such a pain in the ass to go to work anymore, someone screaming about FR vests signs cones and barricades and we our on a dirt road in between bean fields with no structures near us. I love this rubber gloves is a uniform requiring gloves sleeves and booties and I am operating an extendo stick opening a cutout, with 35 feet of fiberglass out! Help us!

[gumbo]

Signal Seven on that Bobbo