Bring back stick!

[bobbo]

AB chance use to have lineman too instruct sticking and you could do anything with that wire with that catalog. With the jibs put warheads on them. If we brought sticking back we would go to less funerals. Look all the construction is getting tighter and higher voltages, more equipment requiring grounds on the pole. Let's just go back to sticks! It would take five to ten years to get every one trained but it would mean not taking collections for injured and going to a lot less funerals. And the sad thing is these companies probably require gloves and sleeves while your below the secondary clipping with an eight foot stick.

[reppy007]

There is nothing wrong with gloving primary,cover what needs to be covered.Obey the safety rules.Have experienced lineman.It doesnt take long to learn sticking,classes are good but aint the real deal.Besides.....even if everyone were to stick,there would be some that would take short cuts and glove anyway.I wish that I was wrong,but Im afraid funerals are here to stay.And it doesnt have to be that way.We seem to be burying ourselves with these accidents that have no business happening in the first place.Being your brothers keeper is a great idea.....sometimes I wonder who is doing the watching on some jobs....is it a real Jy or is it a Jy that has his eyes on his phone that has all kinds of apps? :mad:

[rob8210]

I am all for bringing back sticks, less funerals for sure! If the work can't be done with a stick kill it! The only thing that we should have to rubber glove is services, in a municipal setting. Go a step further , take the rubber gloves away except for class '0' and teach guys how to rely on voltmeters and potential indicators, and grounds. I have rubber gloved most of my career and hotsticked for a few years, don't get me wrong a properly trained and competent journeyman can rubber glove very safely, but a lot of the younger guys are having a hard time understanding second points of contact or even the need to rubber the neutral when it is up on an arm with the primary.

[Hebrew]

Could it be that we are replacing "competent" with "qualified"?The two are not the same.In my neck of the woods,it takes a guy with a degree in engineering four years of internship before he can be registered to practice as an engineer.Men are trained and become qualified but need more exposure to situations that can arise while actually on the job.Could it be that employers want to fast track persons to get work done?I have been seeing a lot of accidents from you guys and I am really lost as to why they happen as your regulations seem very comprehensive.Can I have a few opinions?

[lewy]

Rubber glove work is here to stay and I think most would agree with that. Having said that stick work is a great tool. If I am doing a straight insulator change I will just stick and jib it, much easier faster and safer than gloving, but some jobs like cutting in or sleeving out switches or making taps is much easier with gloves.

[bobbo]

Rubber glove work is here to stay and I think most would agree with that. Having said that stick work is a great tool. If I am doing a straight insulator change I will just stick and jib it, much easier faster and safer than gloving, but some jobs like cutting in or sleeving out switches or making taps is much easier with gloves.

I am seriously think of heading to the stick states. It would be a lot better in extremely hot and cold days. Just doing my thing in a shirt and harness. Gloves and sleeves gets real old.

if you have the right sticks you can do anything. And doing it everyday you get proficient. It takes a lot more teamwork sticking.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I am seriously think of heading to the stick states. It would be a lot better in extremely hot and cold days. Just doing my thing in a shirt and harness. Gloves and sleeves gets real old.

if you have the right sticks you can do anything. And doing it everyday you get proficient. It takes a lot more teamwork sticking.

No doubt sticking is much safer than direct handling. 1967 was the year gloving came to our property and was phased in over a few years. Unfortunately we've suffered a few fatalities since 67. Only one involved gloving primary and the injured lineman removed his gloves to light a smoke......

employers today want more with less, they ain't gonna staff properly for the jobs. No,way I'll,ever see sticks return in my time........

[Pootnaigle]

Like it or not its the utilities that set the standard in our industry They dictate the level of manpower and the rules they work by. Most are woefully understaffed and not entirely satisfied with daily production there is no way they will ever allow a slower approach such as hotsticking to further slow that production down. Yes they preach safety from both sides of their corporate mouths but they wont put the money where the mouths are.

[reppy007]

I agree Poot,theys dont want anything to slow production down,then theres the underground issue....would it mean that no gloving anything?Would it mean killing secondaries on urd before doing any work.I mean really,look at all the accidents and how many were killed because of a guy wearing rubber gloves,the fatalities are because of stupid short-cuts,human error,ect.Lots of deaths are induction related,improper covering,rules not being followed,apparently not well trained lineman.I just dont see it happening either.A lineman without rubber gloves is like a baseball player with-out a bat....then again ,I could be wrong.

[cb104]

Like it or not its the utilities that set the standard in our industry They dictate the level of manpower and the rules they work by. Most are woefully understaffed and not entirely satisfied with daily production there is no way they will ever allow a slower approach such as hotsticking to further slow that production down. Yes they preach safety from both sides of their corporate mouths but they wont put the money where the mouths are.

Slower approach?? If you're slower with sticks you're doing something wrong...gloves have they're place for sure but if your skilled with sticks then they are just an extension of your own fingers, and from my own experience the job is completed with sticks before you're done covering everything up for gloves in most cases...Again gloves have they're advantages in certain situations you can't argue that...it's fairly impressive watching an experienced stick crew, can't say the same for gloving sorry lol...we have the option for either here, gloved lots but we still stick more..

[bobbo]

You are eight feet from the primary. For every foot 100000 volts of protection. You can move wire with war heads. You don't have to tie with clamptops, and there is a stick for those. Dead end shoes, the wedge type are extremely easy to work with, either with a hand and slack blocks or hot hoist and wedge grip with stick ring. If you have never done it. It's very easy. Sticking takes a lot more prep and brain power, but once you get familiarized and the system is engineered for sticking it's not that hard.the problem is the system isn't engineered for it! The contractors and power companies don't have the tools for it. How many guys on the site ever work with a Christmas tree? How many have seen pole saddles and wire tongs? If we had the knowledge and the tools, and the system was engineered the right way, you wouldn't have any awkward moments of taking a collection to a dead mans wife. Tacos and hard cover you don't have to put yourself in phases at all. You never have to worry about any second point of contact because there will be no first point of contact. Everybody says gloving is here to stay, and everyone demands the highest level of safety, but no one request that from your management, your company, the design of your system and your work rules. All the weight of going home every night and living a long life is on us, not them. Why can't we ask them to rethink about work practice, and production standards, and better system design. Ask for the training and tools to stick. What could hurt? I am one guy and I known10 people who died in this trade! Isn't that enough! If these companies want perfect safety, but the only way you will have perfect safety is by sticking. Then the burden would be on them for safety not us anymore!

[rob8210]

Very well said, Bobbo. I can only forsee a couple of problems with it. First we all (lineman, union and nonunion) have to get on the same page and push the utilities into it. Second we would have to teach all the up and coming young lads , and it seems they have a hard enough time learning basic linework!

[bobbo]

Very well said, Bobbo. I can only forsee a couple of problems with it. First we all (lineman, union and nonunion) have to get on the same page and push the utilities into it. Second we would have to teach all the up and coming young lads , and it seems they have a hard enough time learning basic linework!

It takes a lot of training to learn how to use that catalogue. A lot of handline work and rigging. But now, no one uses a handline. No one knows what hold down is? The safest stick method is two guys, one on the pole and one in the bucket to cover all approach and access. No one wants to climb anymore! What we did 100 years before the nineties to keep people safe, no one wants to relearn. Because sticking takes everyone on the crew to work, that's why it would be so hard to bring it back in the industry. You can't have guys bull****ting and grabbing ass. And the foreman might have to get out of the truck for once.

as far as training, chance use to have squad of trainers with the hot stick trailers. They would go out on real jobs and show the men all the tools to do the work safer and easier. They had the catalogues and books, and the tools. If a service area or contractor liked something. They would practice with it and use it and buy it. I think they disbanded those guys, because of all the liability and legal loopholes and gloving. But they were 40 years in the trade lineman who could show you how to Christmas tree wire, or clip with a hot stick. That program might be gone.

And that man is right in the earlier thread. The stick is an extension of your hand.

If you go back to sticking. It would be crew work. Ground help and knowledge is essential. It wouldnt be three guys on the ground watching one guy work anymore. Everyone would be asses and elbows.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Bobbo, I agree totally with your premise that sticking is much safer. There is a contractor/consultant on our property now giving a refresher on transmission sticking, so there are still trainers out there. But I think you're right about the Chance guys who used to come around, I haven't seen them in years.

We stick any voltage above 15kv, I enjoy stick work for the reasons you explained. The problem on my property is gloving came in in 1967 and is here to stay....... The employer cares about safety only when it's to their benefit.

As for as foremen getting out of the truck to show a crew and supervise a stick job, they don't know an alligator stick from a holding stick. If they had to build a pole mounted Christmas tree they wouldn't know where to start.

we're going to have a mass exodus in the next year from retirements, myself included, the knowledge and experience going out the door will never be replaced...... And the employer has no clue what to do about it......

[Old Line Dog]

We stick any voltage above 15kv, I enjoy stick work for the reasons you explained. The problem on my property is gloving came in in 1967 and is here to stay....... The employer cares about safety only when it's to their benefit.

As for as foremen getting out of the truck to show a crew and supervise a stick job, they don't know an alligator stick from a holding stick. If they had to build a pole mounted Christmas tree they wouldn't know where to start. OR, what it even is!!!

we're going to have a mass exodus in the next year from retirements, myself included, the knowledge and experience going out the door will never be replaced...... And the employer has no clue what to do about it...... That unfortunately is not the case. They just don't care. We're from an era Labor, where the Company actually did the majority of their own work, and hired actual employees to do it, with benefits and all the other stuff. Nowadays? Companys don't care. They downsize and just hire contractors. SO much cheaper. They don't really care about the loss of expertice either. THAT is now the responsibility of the contractor. Congrats on your coming retirement man!! Hope you fully enjoy it!! The Old days are gone. I was pretty good with sticks on distribution, but I was more than happy to go to Gloves on 13.2 and 13.8 KV. Don't worry about the expertice...Contractors will take care of it. Somehow, they seem to manage....I don't know how. Too many F-ups by a contractor on Corporation property will get ya banned from the property. I don't see a whole heck of that, so somehow.....they manage to work it.....go figure. Expertice? WTFC's.:mad:

[bobbo]

That unfortunately is not the case. They just don't care. We're from an era Labor, where the Company actually did the majority of their own work, and hired actual employees to do it, with benefits and all the other stuff. Nowadays? Companys don't care. They downsize and just hire contractors. SO much cheaper. They don't really care about the loss of expertice either. THAT is now the responsibility of the contractor. Congrats on your coming retirement man!! Hope you fully enjoy it!! The Old days are gone. I was pretty good with sticks on distribution, but I was more than happy to go to Gloves on 13.2 and 13.8 KV. Don't worry about the expertice...Contractors will take care of it. Somehow, they seem to manage....I don't know how. Too many F-ups by a contractor on Corporation property will get ya banned from the property. I don't see a whole heck of that, so somehow.....they manage to work it.....go figure. Expertice? WTFC's.:mad:


go back to sticking! No more losses of men and no more bull****! Go back to sticking! Ask ab chance to train everyone on their catalogue! No more loss of life! And make these ****head utilities and companies change! I have been trying to do it all my life! I will be done shortly. It's up to you! Wear your gloves and sleeves when the circuit is isolated and grounded. Have your ground to ground gloves and sleeves when there is no reason. Let people fire you for no reason. Put 10 sticks of rubber on a single phase, I don't give a ****. The men that do this everyday got sold out and screwed, find whoever did it and beat the **** out of him. There has been a safer way to do line work for a 100 years, but no one will put the investment, training and time to teach people. The men don't ask for it. The companies and utilities don't care to ask chance to teach and train.'to stick you always will be out of the primary. Yeah gloves is easier and faster, but these companies burnt that bridge by firing and eyeing everyone. Now everyone is afraid to do, say, or talk about anything. WA, OR, Ak, AZ they don't have to worry about deaths because they stick. The other 46 states grow some balls!

[Old Line Dog]

go back to sticking! No more losses of men and no more bull****! NOT happening bobbo. Sad but true. It's just a different world man. Ya want to know the ONLY "Linemen", that are important anymore??? The "Troubleman". And Than poor bsatard, can't hardly do anything but replace a friggin fuse! Anything bigger than that, and he will call out a "Crew". And...more than likely...that will be a contract crew. No bobbo....stickin is dead man...under 15 KV man. As I said...I ain't hearin about too many deaths in linework lately...even with Rat Contractors. But anyway....Stickin under 15KV....Ain't happenin my friend. Besides...corporations don't want the cost of the Sticks and the maintenance of the sticks. Fcuk it. Just hire Contractors.:p

[bobbo]

NOT happening bobbo. Sad but true. It's just a different world man. Ya want to know the ONLY "Linemen", that are important anymore??? The "Troubleman". And Than poor bsatard, can't hardly do anything but replace a friggin fuse! Anything bigger than that, and he will call out a "Crew". And...more than likely...that will be a contract crew. No bobbo....stickin is dead man...under 15 KV man. As I said...I ain't hearin about too many deaths in linework lately...even with Rat Contractors. But anyway....Stickin under 15KV....Ain't happenin my friend. Besides...corporations don't want the cost of the Sticks and the maintenance of the sticks. Fcuk it. Just hire Contractors.:p

Most people did stick. A lot of states still do. Then they, whoever decides in our industry, look at these rubber gloves. You can just glove everything and get er done. Get rid of the sticks! Don't bring em out! Now here things called sleeves and now you wear these things and don't have to cover up as much! Now when you get to extremely hot and cold days , which is happening a lot more frequent, you boil or freeze to death. Then people were braking rules, soft siding triplex without gloves and sleeves? Now we need a layer of rubber cops with binoculars and cameras. Now you have this layer of people who aren't lineman between lineman and the work. Get rid of that layer by getting rid of that useless group and go back to work. We really don't need all the bull shat anymore if we went to sticks. California was doing fine before the law changed. So was IL. It would bring back the intelligence back in this trade that we need so much. Spent a lot of years just sticking and no one ever screamed about cover because I was six feet from the phase. The only places that can't go to sticking would be the tree wire and Hendrix cable states. Unless you can duct tape a torch on the end of a stick. Every complaint that the companies and utilities have would go away with sticks. And all the rules they have would be obsolete. And the lawyers, insurance people couldn't dictate our trade. Just dreaming!

[Old Line Dog]

Most people did stick. A lot of states still do. Then they, whoever decides in our industry, look at these rubber gloves. You can just glove everything and get er done. Get rid of the sticks! Don't bring em out! Just dreaming!Ahhhhh bobbo, I hear ya man. I remember my rants back when I was getting ready to retire. You know in your heart....it's ALL about Profit. Fcuk the employees. It's always been that way man. Nobody goin back to sticks under 15 KV, just ain't happening. "Want in one hand and siht in the other...see which comes true first. Emphasis On "Did Stick"....hope ya get to retire soon, and enjoy it my man.:cool:

[climbsomemore]

Ahhhhh bobbo, I hear ya man. I remember my rants back when I was getting ready to retire. You know in your heart....it's ALL about Profit. Fcuk the employees. It's always been that way man. Nobody goin back to sticks under 15 KV, just ain't happening. "Want in one hand and siht in the other...see which comes true first. Emphasis On "Did Stick"....hope ya get to retire soon, and enjoy it my man.:cool:

still at it with the nonsense? Lot's of folks learned sticking and lot' of places still do it every day, Swamptart.

Just because you never did ---brings nothing to the discussion.

[climbsomemore]

Bobbo, I agree totally with your premise that sticking is much safer. There is a contractor/consultant on our property now giving a refresher on transmission sticking, so there are still trainers out there. But I think you're right about the Chance guys who used to come around, I haven't seen them in years.

We stick any voltage above 15kv, I enjoy stick work for the reasons you explained. The problem on my property is gloving came in in 1967 and is here to stay....... The employer cares about safety only when it's to their benefit.

As for as foremen getting out of the truck to show a crew and supervise a stick job, they don't know an alligator stick from a holding stick. If they had to build a pole mounted Christmas tree they wouldn't know where to start.

we're going to have a mass exodus in the next year from retirements, myself included, the knowledge and experience going out the door will never be replaced...... And the employer has no clue what to do about it......

I did some consulting for a "stick state" utility. They never touched conductors. However, the jib on the truck was used enough that they may as well been "gloving". The tool rooms had no lift sticks, lever lifts, saddles or much of anything tool wise. Back lot's were de energized and grounded.

A little sad that we have let this become the state of things.

[bobbo]

I did some consulting for a "stick state" utility. They never touched conductors. However, the jib on the truck was used enough that they may as well been "gloving". The tool rooms had no lift sticks, lever lifts, saddles or much of anything tool wise. Back lot's were de energized and grounded.

A little sad that we have let this become the state of things.

If I use a warhead I put every bit of glass out.

I went to a yard where they had an extension jib for a digger for hanging big ass pots. They didn't know how to put it together and laid in the weeds for five or six years all run over. It only takes two pins to put on.

Usually every truck with a jib brand new has a wire holder. But I have never had a truck brand new. As soon as someone gets it says what is this and throws it in a pile of we don't use it, I guess they think we should handle 4/0 copper with a gut and ride it on the lip of the bucket. Then the safety guy says you can't do that, then you ask where the wire holder attachment is. And he replies that's another department, fleet services.

There is attachments for most diggers to auto arm phases. It isn't an actual auto arm but you have to slide the wore holders manually.

there is a lot of ways to do this trade safely but you have to be aware of the tools that are out there, but the hard thing is learning how to use them and taking care of them.

[rob8210]

We have wire heads for all our jibs, but it helps when guys clean the jibs once in a while! When I started in the trade we did nothing but rubber glove, up to 27.6kv. Then I went to work for a utility with 44kv and did some hot stick work there. In recent years I have done a fair amount of hotstick work, and yes I will jump on the bandwagon for bringing back sticks. Its a very nice way to work , doesn't require wearing rubber gloves all the time and keeps you out of the flash area. By far the safest way to work live lines.

[Old Line Dog]

still at it with the nonsense? Lot's of folks learned sticking and lot' of places still do it every day, Swamptart.

Just because you never did ---brings nothing to the discussion. What ever..... clumbsom...I was stickin 4.16 KV back in 69. You just the "man" ain't ya.:D You're still at it with your BS too. Anybody "Stickin" under 15KV....livin in the dark ages. Must be Union. Yup...lot of people "learned" ....PAST Tense...stickin...How many utilitities teachin that siht for under 15 KV? Blow smoke up somebody else's ass big boy....I'll maintain my "nonsense".:D You maintain your high falutin BS.:p

[bobbo]

What ever..... clumbsom...I was stickin 4.16 KV back in 69. You just the "man" ain't ya.:D You're still at it with your BS too. Anybody "Stickin" under 15KV....livin in the dark ages. Must be Union. Yup...lot of people "learned" ....PAST Tense...stickin...How many utilitities teachin that siht for under 15 KV? Blow smoke up somebody else's ass big boy....I'll maintain my "nonsense".:D You maintain your high falutin BS.:p

Some of these companies are requiring rubber sleeves, gloves and booties for extendo sticks!

some companies are requiring full nomex suit, nomex hoodie, and face shields while working on baker boards.

most companies mandate rubber gloves and sleeves for isolated tested and grounded. Even single span taps.

I don't know where you work or did work. But if you haven't seen what's happening out there. You haven't seen the nonsense out there.

what you say everybody agrees with, I am happy about gloving until I have 10 guys running in pick up trucks " you better rubber that!!" And I am working single phase Y with 8 foot spacing!!!

either your heads in the sand or you work a little coop.

If we are so mandated too work stupid because someone who has never done this is in charge. And if there firing people, blacklisting people for not gutting some triplex! And they always use a dead lineman for doing this. Why don't we just get out of the phases and stick! No dead lineman! Unless as somebody mistakes a ground rod for a finger stick!

good lineman want to do excellent work and make the money. Lineman just want to make money! Nobody wants good lineman, they want lap dogs, nuthuggers, and robots. Let them have them. I just want to be around good lineman. And I finally found the honey hole of good lineman!

[Old Line Dog]

Some of these companies are requiring rubber sleeves, gloves and booties for extendo sticks!
Yup. It's all about "Protecting the Employer" bobbo. NOT the Employee. AND buddy...if you ever get your dream "wish" about "goin back to sticks"....WHICH ain't Never gonna happen.....You'll STILL be wearin all that Rubber BS while doin your Stickin!!!:p So yeah man....You go back to "Stickin". :D:D:rolleyes:

[Orgnizdlbr]

Some of these companies are requiring rubber sleeves, gloves and booties for extendo sticks!

some companies are requiring full nomex suit, nomex hoodie, and face shields while working on baker boards.

most companies mandate rubber gloves and sleeves for isolated tested and grounded. Even single span taps.

I don't know where you work or did work. But if you haven't seen what's happening out there. You haven't seen the nonsense out there.

what you say everybody agrees with, I am happy about gloving until I have 10 guys running in pick up trucks " you better rubber that!!" And I am working single phase Y with 8 foot spacing!!!

either your heads in the sand or you work a little coop.

If we are so mandated too work stupid because someone who has never done this is in charge. And if there firing people, blacklisting people for not gutting some triplex! And they always use a dead lineman for doing this. Why don't we just get out of the phases and stick! No dead lineman! Unless as somebody mistakes a ground rod for a finger stick!

good lineman want to do excellent work and make the money. Lineman just want to make money! Nobody wants good lineman, they want lap dogs, nuthuggers, and robots. Let them have them. I just want to be around good lineman. And I finally found the honey hole of good lineman!

I haven't seen or heard of linemen wearing nomex and face shields, that doesn't mean it's not happening. Apparently some of these companies are misinterpreting the NFPA rules and guidelines when working on electrical systems. Guidelines say ya have to wear all that crap, but unless it's changed, lineman working distribution and transmission are exempt from those rules and guidelines. Wearing all that crap makes the job more dangerous, not safer.......!!!!!!

[US & CA Tramp]

I haven't seen or heard of linemen wearing nomex and face shields, that doesn't mean it's not happening. Apparently some of these companies are misinterpreting the NFPA rules and guidelines when working on electrical systems. Guidelines say ya have to wear all that crap, but unless it's changed, lineman working distribution and transmission are exempt from those rules and guidelines. Wearing all that crap makes the job more dangerous, not safer.......!!!!!!


I 2nd that!!

[bobbo]

I 2nd that!!
Every Ahole can misinterpret, misinstruct, misinform, mis.. Mis... Mis... ... As long as he feels good taking pictures of not having 20 cones, 80 sticks of rubber on #6, 3 barrels of blankets on every square foot of the structure. . . You need to be drunk and stay drunk to survive! Instead of getting drunk, can we just stick?

[bobbo]

I haven't seen or heard of linemen wearing nomex and face shields, that doesn't mean it's not happening. Apparently some of these companies are misinterpreting the NFPA rules and guidelines when working on electrical systems. Guidelines say ya have to wear all that crap, but unless it's changed, lineman working distribution and transmission are exempt from those rules and guidelines. Wearing all that crap makes the job more dangerous, not safer.......!!!!!!

Bakerboarding, rubber gloves, sleeves, nomex suit, nomex head guard, face shield. . . Dieing from dehydration . . . Everyone left in weeks . . . Everyone they brought, left. If I say the contractor, they will hack the site and can't feed my family! That's how it works. How about avoid all the drama and just stick!

[US & CA Tramp]

Every Ahole can misinterpret, misinstruct, misinform, mis.. Mis... Mis... ... As long as he feels good taking pictures of not having 20 cones, 80 sticks of rubber on #6, 3 barrels of blankets on every square foot of the structure. . . You need to be drunk and stay drunk to survive! Instead of getting drunk, can we just stick?


Sticks!
I grew up with sticking starting in 1970, and worked for utilities that did nothing but stick except gloves on 4kv and below. I worked all over the Northwest for 21 years with those rules, and liked them. After the 21 years I went on to work in gloving states, and Provinces such as Florida, Massachusetts, Georgia, BC, and Ontario, Rubber gloving up to 27.6KV Both techniques are safe if you follow the rules, and each have their place in the field. I always wanted to learn all aspects of line work to improve my skills. Of course this is just my opinion.

So coming from this opinionated Ahole, Get Over Yourself!

[bobbo]

Sticks!
I grew up with sticking starting in 1970, and worked for utilities that did nothing but stick except gloves on 4kv and below. I worked all over the Northwest for 21 years with those rules, and liked them. After the 21 years I went on to work in gloving states, and Provinces such as Florida, Massachusetts, Georgia, BC, and Ontario, Rubber gloving up to 27.6KV Both techniques are safe if you follow the rules, and each have their place in the field. I always wanted to learn all aspects of line work to improve my skills. Of course this is just my opinion.

So coming from this opinionated Ahole, Get Over Yourself!

umm. Ahole is a guy that has never done this, interpreting stuff from non reliable sources telling you what you need to do to to get the job done! Whatever get over yourself means, get over yourself back. A thread is to incite discussion on the course of where we need to go as men, as lineman, how we teach, what we do. I am working with with pill heads. Worked with drunks. Worked with meatheads. Dude nothing is personal and don't take things personal. Wherever your at you probably do smart good line work. But if you travel around, the smart good people nobody wants. They want the guy who comes in an hour before and hour after to suck the poles of supervision. And the supervision are f'd up because they were hacks when they were doing the work and spent the hour before and after to **** on good lineman, that's how it is now. Get over yourself! ?

[rob8210]

Hey Bobbo, I am glad you found a place to work where the rules aren't insane. Some of the rules where I am an unusual, but the fellas are all great to work with. I did a stint in the U.S. a few years ago , the contractor was gloves and sleeves at all times. I managed to get in s*** when working on isolated and grounded line wearing leathers, we actually had 5 sets of grounds in 6 spans. The foreman went squirrely, so did his boss. I guess they didn't understand point of work grounding! Now I have rubber gloved up to 27.6kv, and done properly I don't have an issue with it, but, the new young bosses with no experience are the problem. Lets go back to sticks! It will certainly save lives. Heck lets get the union involved and make it mandatory!!!!

[bobbo]

Hey Bobbo, I am glad you found a place to work where the rules aren't insane. Some of the rules where I am an unusual, but the fellas are all great to work with. I did a stint in the U.S. a few years ago , the contractor was gloves and sleeves at all times. I managed to get in s*** when working on isolated and grounded line wearing leathers, we actually had 5 sets of grounds in 6 spans. The foreman went squirrely, so did his boss. I guess they didn't understand point of work grounding! Now I have rubber gloved up to 27.6kv, and done properly I don't have an issue with it, but, the new young bosses with no experience are the problem. Lets go back to sticks! It will certainly save lives. Heck lets get the union involved and make it mandatory!!!!

if we went back to sticking we would get
ris of the 1000s of ****s watching us work. They make more than us, so more profit for everyone. My hand is up!

[reppy007]

Ive worked at several locations,all really.I never heard lineman in any service center wanting sticking over rubber gloving....must be a north thing.It would never be voted in by lineman here.Bobbo,does everyone where you work think the same as you on the sticking issue?

[Old Line Dog]

Rubber gloving up to 27.6KV Both techniques are safe if you follow the rules, and each have their place in the field. I always wanted to learn all aspects of line work to improve my skills. Of course this is just my opinion.

What HE said.:cool:

[gumbo]

It takes a lot of training to learn how to use that catalogue. A lot of handline work and rigging. But now, no one uses a handline. No one knows what hold down is? The safest stick method is two guys, one on the pole and one in the bucket to cover all approach and access. No one wants to climb anymore! What we did 100 years before the nineties to keep people safe, no one wants to relearn. Because sticking takes everyone on the crew to work, that's why it would be so hard to bring it back in the industry. You can't have guys bull****ting and grabbing ass. And the foreman might have to get out of the truck for once.

as far as training, chance use to have squad of trainers with the hot stick trailers. They would go out on real jobs and show the men all the tools to do the work safer and easier. They had the catalogues and books, and the tools. If a service area or contractor liked something. They would practice with it and use it and buy it. I think they disbanded those guys, because of all the liability and legal loopholes and gloving. But they were 40 years in the trade lineman who could show you how to Christmas tree wire, or clip with a hot stick. That program might be gone.

And that man is right in the earlier thread. The stick is an extension of your hand.

If you go back to sticking. It would be crew work. Ground help and knowledge is essential. It wouldnt be three guys on the ground watching one guy work anymore. Everyone would be asses and elbows.

We used to hotstick Hendricks cable in California in the 80's. All it takes is a road flare. White phosphorous takes no crap from just about any type of insulation. Hold it with a liquid fuse install tool. Tape has to have a large diameter center so you can pass it between 2 switch sticks. Dangerous but it can be done.

[rob8210]

Don't take what I am saying the wrong way, I enjoy rubber gloving and have done it most all of my career. I have worked with all kinds of different fellas. Some guys make really good rubber glovers, some guys are are great construction guys. But today they want everybody to do everything. Some just are not cut out to rubber glove, its good work but its dangerous too. The wrong guys usually get hurt, burned or killed. Going back to hotsticking will cut way down on burns and deaths. the ground to ground rubber glove rule is making the work much harder to do and is causing more strain injuries. Heck even Joe Public can get closer to live primary than a qualified and trained power lineman. Telephone and CATV guys don't wear rubber gloves and they can be halfway up a pole, yet we are not even allowed to touch a pole. Sure makes me feel like I am an idiot that knows nothing. Great way to treat properly trained people!

[Orgnizdlbr]

Don't take what I am saying the wrong way, I enjoy rubber gloving and have done it most all of my career. I have worked with all kinds of different fellas. Some guys make really good rubber glovers, some guys are are great construction guys. But today they want everybody to do everything. Some just are not cut out to rubber glove, its good work but its dangerous too. The wrong guys usually get hurt, burned or killed. Going back to hotsticking will cut way down on burns and deaths. the ground to ground rubber glove rule is making the work much harder to do and is causing more strain injuries. Heck even Joe Public can get closer to live primary than a qualified and trained power lineman. Telephone and CATV guys don't wear rubber gloves and they can be halfway up a pole, yet we are not even allowed to touch a pole. Sure makes me feel like I am an idiot that knows nothing. Great way to treat properly trained people!


That just about sums it up perfectly........!

[bobbo]

There are tools that make this job a lot easier that no one has seen. Auto arms. Auxilliary arms that would make this trade a lot easier. No one has to get in phases to do this work. Guys has the tools and know how to tong and saddle all this stuff off their hooks efficiently. Why could the training and tools be available. Sticking would get guys out of phases. Keep all this enforcement guys driving around in binoculars to not eyeball every thing. Give us a few years more to the old fellas. Teach people to rely on rigging. Seriously how can it hurt. Give me older fellas from th 1950s who stick and rubber gloving now, the guys probably do it in the same amount of time and a lot safer. Watch those AB Chance instructional videos, those guys are fast!

[lewy]

Doing a straight insulator change or going to a higher pole is easier safer and just as fast with stick and jib, with K-line insulators with there K clamp and an all angle cog as it is rubber gloving probably even faster. The thing is that some people only want to rubber glove because they have never been exposed to stick work. At the end of the day it is another tool to have, but some jobs will always be easier rubber gloving.

[Old Line Dog]

Doing a straight insulator change or going to a higher pole is easier safer and just as fast with stick and jib, with K-line insulators with there K clamp and an all angle cog as it is rubber gloving probably even faster. The thing is that some people only want to rubber glove because they have never been exposed to stick work. At the end of the day it is another tool to have, but some jobs will always be easier rubber gloving. AND safer...Rubber Glovin.
I'll put this out as a comparison. "Back in the day", most cars were Stick Shifts. Then came the "Automatic"...Everybody went nuckin futs!!! NOWDAYS...lot of people want to have a "Stick Shift"...and guess what...."OK"!!! Cost ya like twice the money of an Automatic! Glovin up to 24.5, is Safe, if ya conduct yourself like the Lineman you are suppose to be.

[bobbo]

There is somebody who will always be willing to do it for less.

Remember had a foreman who wanted a one shot. It was changing a middle arm on a four circuit pole. Transmission, 12 kv and 2400 2 circuits. The middle circuit was at a hard angle, maybe 60 degrees, 4/0 copper, double cob arm, not dead ended. Pretty risky. So my foreman asked management for a one shot. The next day someone did the job and called my foreman a possy.

same crew did a similar job a month later. And everything went to hell. A lot of fires and locked out circuits.

we keep pushing the envelope. And we are getting younger and younger in the industry. And more ego everyday I heard 30 lineman have passed this year. So isn't it time to rethink about the work we do.

the stick states, electrical contact might be hot poles or hot trucks, induction. .. Not with being in the middle of phases with arresters and ground everywhere. Nobody is inserting all this equipment on insets.They are jamming all this equipment on old poles. It's getting more risky.

there always be a yahoo who will do it. I wouldn't say they are unsafe. But there is a lot of hazards that you can't see. I would say 10 times this year alone I pulled off armor rod at a pin and there was just the steel, no strands. Or somebody torqued down kerneys on solid copper and they fatigued it to where you move it a little it will break. Chance cutout that break in half when you touch them.

its time to rethink things and how we do things. Because there is always be someone willing to do anything and any job. As soon as these young guys put on these rubber gloves and sleeves they think they are supermen.

If they were taught another way where they aren't in the bight all the time is that wrong?

Everyone is preaching safety, safety, safety but a lot of the systems are garbage. Most of the systems I have worked on are still have the majority running on original structures, pre World War Two or World War One.

the utilities don't have real sharp tacks running them like competitive companies. No one is from Harvard. MIT or Stanford. The management is from colleges where you can walk straight and have a check book, you can get a degree. It's a club. If you are good at politics, you win.

all of the risk is on the lineman. When you in process to a company you sign your name to a telephone book size application. It's an environment where you have to gorilla something instead of getting the right equipment. If you screw up, get injured, it will be your fault! I think I spend 50 bucks a week on gofundme sites with injured lineman who can't pay their bills because of injury. And the injuries were accidents that any normal man could happened to them. Some unforeseen possibility on some contrived rigging because they had to over improvise, because they didn't have a proper and designed device for the task. Because we never do!

Just end the bull**** and and go to sticking!
And get out of the bight!

[reppy007]

Your right ....Im not convinced....to prevent circuit lock-outs ,maybe covering more would help....you must remember we are all lineman and do what lineman do....that includes gloving primary....if a guy thinks that cant be done safely he may be in the wrong trade....there is always walmart,McDonalds,Payless shoes,and plenty of doughnut shops....and if pizza is your thing,im sure they need more drivers.....but thats just my opinion Mr.boboo.:)

[Rob]

Bobbo....Nice to see there are still people out there that care. You've made a valid argument for sure. Irish Bren and Bigclive will tell you the safest way is to kill it. Work nothing hot. It's the law over there !
We have OSHA laws here now... Maybe they're not enough. Maybe the training programs today aren't what they once were. I say that because we have thousands of Lineman out there working on hot distribution everyday (sometimes in bad conditions) and they'll all tell you what they are doing is safe. They are confident in their training and skills. Like any profession some are better than others.
Our industry is certainly due for some type of upgrade, that I am sure of ( I think we are the only guys left using an adjustable wrench)... I've heard many times from the younger generation , " You guys haven't come up with any thing better than this!!"... You can apply that to most things we do out there.
So we all should be out there looking for better ways and safer ways of doing Linework. That's a start ! Be safe.

[bobbo]

There is somebody who will always be willing to do it for less.

Remember had a foreman who wanted a one shot. It was changing a middle arm on a four circuit pole. Transmission, 12 kv and 2400 2 circuits. The middle circuit was at a hard angle, maybe 60 degrees, 4/0 copper, double cob arm, not dead ended. Pretty risky. So my foreman asked management for a one shot. The next day someone did the job and called my foreman a possy.

same crew did a similar job a month later. And everything went to hell. A lot of fires and locked out circuits.

we keep pushing the envelope. And we are getting younger and younger in the industry. And more ego everyday I heard 30 lineman have passed this year. So isn't it time to rethink about the work we do.

the stick states, electrical contact might be hot poles or hot trucks, induction. .. Not with being in the middle of phases with arresters and ground everywhere. Nobody is inserting all this equipment on insets.They are jamming all this equipment on old poles. It's getting more risky.

there always be a yahoo who will do it. I wouldn't say they are unsafe. But there is a lot of hazards that you can't see. I would say 10 times this year alone I pulled off armor rod at a pin and there was just the steel, no strands. Or somebody torqued down kerneys on solid copper and they fatigued it to where you move it a little it will break. Chance cutout that break in half when you touch them.

its time to rethink things and how we do things. Because there is always be someone willing to do anything and any job. As soon as these young guys put on these rubber gloves and sleeves they think they are supermen.

If they were taught another way where they aren't in the bight all the time is that wrong?

Everyone is preaching safety, safety, safety but a lot of the systems are garbage. Most of the systems I have worked on are still have the majority running on original structures, pre World War Two or World War One.

the utilities don't have real sharp tacks running them like competitive companies. No one is from Harvard. MIT or Stanford. The management is from colleges where you can walk straight and have a check book, you can get a degree. It's a club. If you are good at politics, you win.

all of the risk is on the lineman. When you in process to a company you sign your name to a telephone book size application. It's an environment where you have to gorilla something instead of getting the right equipment. If you screw up, get injured, it will be your fault! I think I spend 50 bucks a week on gofundme sites with injured lineman who can't pay their bills because of injury. And the injuries were accidents that any normal man could happened to them. Some unforeseen possibility on some contrived rigging because they had to over improvise, because they didn't have a proper and designed device for the task. Because we never do!

Just end the bull**** and and go to sticking!
And get out of the bight!


Unclip two structures. Auto arm the phases. Replace two poles instead of one on the clear. Seen it.

Par a ruses them for highline now. But I have seem them in distribution. And I have seem them hold dead ends.

Then there would be now kneed to go higher all the time.

You out really don't need an auto arm, you can put a tong and saddle set up on a bucket, digger, or on a pole. Pretty universal to whatever situation your in.