heres the story

[reppy007]

Let me try to explain.....a couple of months ago a pole with capacitors was hit,the pole wasnt going anywhere cause there were two other poles on each side that were pretty darn close to the one that was hit.A week or so after that the old pole was stubbed at the ground.Left that way for a month or so.Then another truck comes along and changes out the pole.Later another truck comes out and hangs a t-arm and 3 switches.After that,a week or two later another truck hangs the brackets for the caps.Guess what another truck does a few days after that? Sure they come to install the caps.By now I just scratch my head when I see another truck come by to do the wiring.By the way I must have missed something cause there has been two more trucks set up on the same pole lately,and I didnt really watch what was being done.But are utilities that short on lineman where this many trucks have to go back to the same pole so many times?Seems like its that way here. :nightmare:

[Electriceel]

Not going into a lot of detail.
But what I see happening is that old style lineman is fading fast.
Back in the day we would take a pole, a digger, a basket, hardware, capacitors, etc. Everything needed to do the job, head out in the a.m. and be done by noon with a 3 man crew.

Lineman these days are bucket babies, and are afraid to get dirty or earn their pay.
Spend too much time in the shop whining about their job.

Too bad for the industry.

[reppy007]

I may be wrong but I was thinking they were being pulled off for one reason or another,I do know they are short on people and they know it.No shortage of overtime cause the company only have few to do the work anyway.I loved overtime when I was younger but I also enjoyed my off time,time for vacations and spending a little of what I made.I knew some that would never go out of state or travel,they said they didnt have the funds but were always working.I never figured that one out:D.These days they all but throw you in jail for refusing to work or answer the phone.I mean we lineman do have families to spend time with,or some do.Its a shame how as a whole the lineman has been treated by big companies.I can remember when a safety meeting was just that.they would go into detail when an accident occured to make all aware of the things that werent susposed to be done,the mistakes and all.Now why even have them if you cant give out the facts of what happened?I just dont know.....I really feel for the good lineman coming up these days,cause no doubt there is some good ones....maybe the leadership isnt there anymore.All around its a bad deal for the guys that are good with their hands doing the actual work in all sorts of conditions...there used to be light at the end of the tunnel,now if its still there,its really dim.:(

[1245hand]

This happens alot more than you would think Reppy. The utility I work for uses this same method way too much. Boss uses the job as a fill-in when crew has slack time (in managements eyes), doesn't schedule enough time to complete job as needed. "Do this on your way by" mentality.

One crew replaces pole & removes cap bank, old bank deemed unusable, no material ordered to replace broken/defective parts. Next crew doesn't have any idea whats needed next. Goes on and on. Job isn't given to the same crew consistently for anyone to be accountable for it.

This is what utility management wants apparently. Not enough linemen to do the work, Boss too inexperienced or doesn't care enough, the lineman there are don't stay on the same crew day to day.

This creates the attitude Eel talks about. It starts at the top.

Work safe and teach by example. Hopefully, others will learn from your knowledge.

[reppy007]

This happens alot more than you would think Reppy. The utility I work for uses this same method way too much. Boss uses the job as a fill-in when crew has slack time (in managements eyes), doesn't schedule enough time to complete job as needed. "Do this on your way by" mentality.

One crew replaces pole & removes cap bank, old bank deemed unusable, no material ordered to replace broken/defective parts. Next crew doesn't have any idea whats needed next. Goes on and on. Job isn't given to the same crew consistently for anyone to be accountable for it.

This is what utility management wants apparently. Not enough linemen to do the work, Boss too inexperienced or doesn't care enough, the lineman there are don't stay on the same crew day to day.

This creates the attitude Eel talks about. It starts at the top.

Work safe and teach by example. Hopefully, others will learn from your knowledge.

yea,the foreman often will say that ....on your way....when he is off the temp foreman also says it even if you have 3 jobs to do that day.......so how can you do all of the on your way jobs and finish your assigned jobs in one day .....when you find out please let me know,thanks.:D

[Pootnaigle]

Umm the explanation is easyful The time management people they hire have no clue what we dp or how long it takes to do it And the Utility management knows even less so a snowjob blows rite by em and then the ball passes over to lower management who may have a clue but their bonuses abdpromotions are based on qualifying the goals mandated by upper msnsgement and they twist and contort our schedules accordingly

[reppy007]

Umm the explanation is easyful The time management people they hire have no clue what we dp or how long it takes to do it And the Utility management knows even less so a snowjob blows rite by em and then the ball passes over to lower management who may have a clue but their bonuses abdpromotions are based on qualifying the goals mandated by upper msnsgement and they twist and contort our schedules accordingly

So I guess the word accordingly is the key word,dont get me wrong Im not complaining.......opps:mad:

[reppy007]

Too bad the old style supervisers dont run things anymore.We might have not liked some of their methods but it sure was better than the way things are ran today.I can honestly say that I knew some darn good supervisors that knew how to do their jobs.

[Old Line Dog]

Umm the explanation is easyful The time management people they hire have no clue what we dp or how long it takes to do it And the Utility management knows even less so a snowjob blows rite by em and then the ball passes over to lower management who may have a clue but their bonuses abdpromotions are based on qualifying the goals mandated by upper msnsgement and they twist and contort our schedules accordingly Yup. the Really sad thing is,...talk and analize it all ya want. Linework nowdays "Is what it Is". And...it ain't gonna change. It's the "New Linework". The only ones really btichin about it is us Old Linemen. The New Linemen, don't know nothin but this new Linework. Us old fcukers....know and understand the "Change"...and for the most part...we hate it. You young'uns....Carry on Linegentlemen. It's your trade now. Good Luck and Stay Safe.

[reppy007]

True...my health is ok for now....but Im afraid that when I see a lineman carrying a backpack to the backyard while he has his hooks on and belt on ,my health may go south.....that may be too much for me,and I surely aint going to ask whats in his backpack.....cause Im afraid of the answer I may get:nightmare:...apprentice handbook maybe?:nightmare:

[Old Line Dog]

True...my health is ok for now....but Im afraid that when I see a lineman carrying a backpack to the backyard while he has his hooks on and belt on ,my health may go south.....that may be too much for me,and I surely aint going to ask whats in his backpack.....cause Im afraid of the answer I may get:nightmare:...apprentice handbook maybe?:nightmare: Oh...Now your health is "Ok". Good For you!!!! Fcuk...a year ago you were dyin. Whatever. Bottom line is...Linemen, real linemen from back in the day...are...basically "non existant" anymore!! The New breed of "lineman"....are what they are. The Trade of Linework,, has basically gone to "Contractors". The Utilities and Corps, keep their so called "Linemen" for the small siht.....when they need Real linework...they bring in Contractors. Union and Non. THOSE boys...are Fcukin LINEMEN! Unit work is "Siht and Get"!!! Something that is not a concept now days....

[reppy007]

Oh...Now your health is "Ok". Good For you!!!! Fcuk...a year ago you were dyin. Whatever. Bottom line is...Linemen, real linemen from back in the day...are...basically "non existant" anymore!! The New breed of "lineman"....are what they are. The Trade of Linework,, has basically gone to "Contractors". The Utilities and Corps, keep their so called "Linemen" for the small siht.....when they need Real linework...they bring in Contractors. Union and Non. THOSE boys...are Fcukin LINEMEN! Unit work is "Siht and Get"!!! Something that is not a concept now days....

The way I look at it isnt a utility lineman VS contractor lineman ordeal,both have good lineman and bad lineman.Both have good supervision and bad supervision.When the trade as a whole no matter which one you work for,has people sending apprentices to do work that involves a fatality and it doesnt appear that anyone was supervising or enforcing rules that should be applied isnt the workers fault.Yes times have changed and if theres people in it that dont belong in it ,they are the ones that need to take a hike,or made to take a hike.Sometimes safety has to come first out in the field instead of on paper.

[Old Line Dog]

The way I look at it isnt a utility lineman VS contractor lineman ordeal,both have good lineman and bad lineman.Both have good supervision and bad supervision.When the trade as a whole no matter which one you work for,has people sending apprentices to do work that involves a fatality and it doesnt appear that anyone was supervising or enforcing rules that should be applied isnt the workers fault.Yes times have changed and if theres people in it that dont belong in it ,they are the ones that need to take a hike,or made to take a hike.Sometimes safety has to come first out in the field instead of on paper.

And THAT is why Utilities and Corps are hiring CONTRACTORS. Utilites and Corps... don't make linemen anymore. Utilities and Corps...Hire Contractors. The only REAL linemen left in the trade...are Contract Linemen. .

[reppy007]

And THAT is why Utilities and Corps are hiring CONTRACTORS. Utilites and Corps... don't make linemen anymore. Utilities and Corps...Hire Contractors. The only REAL linemen left in the trade...are Contract Linemen. .

It sure seems that way,a weekend warriors type of deal.

[Old Line Dog]

It sure seems that way,a weekend warriors type of deal.

No. It IS that way. Utility and Corp Linemen....are like "Tenured" teachers. You can't BLOW those fcukers out of their job...no matter what. Makes a GREAT case for...Hiring Contractors...to circumnavigate the "Tenured" non productive butt wipes.

[1245hand]

And THAT is why Utilities and Corps are hiring CONTRACTORS. Utilites and Corps... don't make linemen anymore. Utilities and Corps...Hire Contractors. The only REAL linemen left in the trade...are Contract Linemen. .

OLD said it 3 times & it still aint true.

Don't take the bait Reppy- It belongs on a different thread.

[reppy007]

OLD said it 3 times & it still aint true.

Don't take the bait Reppy- It belongs on a different thread.

You dont take the bait,I bet-ch he will make it 4 times now :D Its all good.Stay warm.:D

[Pootnaigle]

Never even met a guy with so many poor opinions or one that gave worse advice

[reppy007]

Never even met a guy with so many poor opinions or one that gave worse advice

The bad thing is I believe he knows linework,but would take a shortcut in a split second,and if his fellow lineman was hurt he would back out of it faster than one of those trap door spiders.And call the injured guy names.I wanna say Ive worked with worse,but Im lucky that Id never find out.

[Trouble1]

Every thread devolves into the same thing no matter what the topic is. This forum is turning to $hit for that reason. Old guys or contractors know everything and are the best workers, that's the reason they get hurt more, because they try harder and know more, duh. Because they work harder and scoff at any type of rule that might help someone. You know more, everyone else sucks, we get it. I've seen contractors that have been in the business for 20 years that didn't know the size of a fuse was on the link itself. Holding two fuses up to the light to see if they were the same size. Wearing short sleeve shirts, begging utility guys for tools, burning **** down and blaming it on equipment failure. Eat $hit. Everyone one this forum is the same because they are reading about their job on their own time in order to learn something.

Original topic. There's not enough people to do the work and yes it's the company's fault. They need to hire people of course. Same thing is happening in every trade all across the country.

[Pootnaigle]

Umm what he sed

[reppy007]

I feel for those guys that are going to some sort of schooling,and giving it all they got.Spending good money and time,thinking they have a good chance.When ,in reality here at least .....they dont stand a chance because the ones that will be hired is relitives or friends sons get the first shot.Its not quite fair but it is what it is.Maybe up north is different.But here theys just aint going to be hired.....even if the company is short on experienced guys.Saying all of that ....I cant imagine a guy,contractor or not being in the trade for twenty years and not knowing a fuse size unless he is blind and stupider than stupid....but I guess its possible....let me call swamp and find out.:nightmare:

[Trouble1]

It wasn't one guy that didn't know how to check the fuse size, it was two of them. Staring at with one eye closed. Showed up with no gear, not even chocks. Stealing out of metal dumpsters because they thought it was free metal. Bottom line is who cares what part of the business you come from, if you're here then you are trying harder than most lineman to learn something or help someone learn something. There are crappy workers everywhere. If your here, you're not one of them. Unless you only come to complain about union BS.

When I was working as a forman/leader, the same thing happened all the time. I remember one time there was a new 400 amp three phase service going in... We show up and there are no phases run across the street. Perfect. We had enough time to hang the transformer, hook up the transformer, hang cut-outs, and dead-ends. We had a nice little day of course with no gloves or FR. We got crap the next day from the supervisor for not running the phases first because the actual job was to run the phases, not any of the stuff we did, which meant we would have had to do everything in FR and sleeves. The permit didn't come in until two weeks later, then we ran the phases and closes the cut-outs.

[reppy007]

Thats sad.....I thought 1 was the loneliest number but in this case its two.I knew one contractor foreman that didnt want his lineman to use the larger gin arm to hang a larger transformer,meaning a 75kva or above.He wanted them to drill a hole and use a small mif arm,said it was faster.Well when I climbed the pole and used the tool that was meant for the job,in this case the large gin arm.The guy came close to having a baby,turned out that his guys had trouble hanging the larger gin arm by themselves....we all know it doesnt take that much time,yes the arm is bigger and the chain is thicker but not complicated at all.What happens if the small steel arm breaks and they find out that you had the right tool on your truck?Wouldnt they then ask why you didnt use the tool that was meant for the job?I think it would be fair for them to ask that question.....maybe Ill make that call now to numbnuts.

[Old Line Dog]

Never even met a guy with so many poor opinions or one that gave worse advice

Well, ya have now ain't ya poot. I just talk it as I see it. Not to degrade Linemen workin for utilities or corps. I'm sure there are good linemen there. I know there are good linemen there. I also know, they have basically a cush Job as a Lineman. Especially if they are union. THAT is why Corps and Utilities....farm their Nasty siht out to Contractors. Contractors get the Jobs the Corp and Utility Linemen....don't want to do. Mostly Back Lot pole changeouts and siht. Aside from the fact that most all Corps and major Utilities, have downsized their workforce because of "Costs"...IE...Insurance, retirement,, medical benefits,, and a rash of other siht they have to give their full time emyployees. The bottom line is...."The BUCK". AND contractors, are a hell of a lot cheaper. As for "worse advice"...I'll tell ya what you old fcuk....I've directed Every one of my apprentices, to, if possible...as fast as possible...get on with a Union Utility or Corp. because....THAT door was closing. THAT Pootster....was back in 2004. Guess what. The Door to get a job with a Major Utility or Corp as a Lineman....Is basically Closed. So...spew your siht old man, and suck up on old reppy. You two deserve each other. I talk reality. Reality I see and hear every day. AND...the Linemen I know at Duke power....who use to be Entergy, who use to be FPL, who are the Power company here in Greater Orlando...aside from the Orlando utility... OUC....Can't say much anyway, even though they are union. Florida...is a "Right to work State". I talk and have lunch with "linemen" least 2 times a month...just to stay up on "Stuff". You and reppy are just...."out" there. Like I said...you 2 deserve each other. :-)

[1245hand]

Well, ya have now ain't ya poot. I just talk it as I see it. Not to degrade Linemen workin for utilities or corps. I'm sure there are good linemen there. I know there are good linemen there. I also know, they have basically a cush Job as a Lineman. Especially if they are union. THAT is why Corps and Utilities....farm their Nasty siht out to Contractors. Contractors get the Jobs the Corp and Utility Linemen....don't want to do. Mostly Back Lot pole changeouts and siht. Aside from the fact that most all Corps and major Utilities, have downsized their workforce because of "Costs"...IE...Insurance, retirement,, medical benefits,, and a rash of other siht they have to give their full time emyployees. The bottom line is...."The BUCK". AND contractors, are a hell of a lot cheaper. As for "worse advice"...I'll tell ya what you old fcuk....I've directed Every one of my apprentices, to, if possible...as fast as possible...get on with a Union Utility or Corp. because....THAT door was closing. THAT Pootster....was back in 2004. Guess what. The Door to get a job with a Major Utility or Corp as a Lineman....Is basically Closed. So...spew your siht old man, and suck up on old reppy. You two deserve each other. I talk reality. Reality I see and hear every day. AND...the Linemen I know at Duke power....who use to be Entergy, who use to be FPL, who are the Power company here in Greater Orlando...aside from the Orlando utility... OUC....Can't say much anyway, even though they are union. Florida...is a "Right to work State". I talk and have lunch with "linemen" least 2 times a month...just to stay up on "Stuff". You and reppy are just...."out" there. Like I said...you 2 deserve each other. :-)

PM'd ya Rep, check yer messages

[reppy007]

Lets take a look at some possible reasons....doesnt look like a shortage of money to me....that is when the green stuff goes into a CEO's pocket.Wow these big companies dont even blink an eye.Taxes....naa thats now biggie either! http://fortune.com/2014/11/19/these-7-companies-spend-more-on-ceo-pay-than-federal-taxes/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl6|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D567110

[rob8210]

In a way it is all about money, not what things cost, but the bottom line at the end of the year. Everybody agrees the new breed of lineman is quite different from the older guys. The biggest problem is a lack of manpower! Because of that most utilities are contracting out work, but contractors have the same problem, manpower. Training hasn't kept up with demand. Some of the new training is, lets say unusual. A friend just completed 3rd year school. They were teaching some theory that wanted them to calculate the resistance of a circuit. Now tell me how that is useful to a lineman?

[T-Man]

Rob, when I was teaching my Boss wanted to know why my Basic electricity class didn't include resistors. . . .I said because we aint building radios! She didn't think that was funny.

[reppy007]

In a way it is all about money, not what things cost, but the bottom line at the end of the year. Everybody agrees the new breed of lineman is quite different from the older guys. The biggest problem is a lack of manpower! Because of that most utilities are contracting out work, but contractors have the same problem, manpower. Training hasn't kept up with demand. Some of the new training is, lets say unusual. A friend just completed 3rd year school. They were teaching some theory that wanted them to calculate the resistance of a circuit. Now tell me how that is useful to a lineman?

I agree totally....Ive never needed all of that.If I were in school Id be more concerned about my chances of landing a job and making some money instead of dishing it out to a school that may not get me where I want to be.Its a good thing in a way.....cause I could go to the hall on any given day and land a job.....why .....cause the contractors are short too....and their training isnt the best.Another reason is cause lots of the younger generation just doesnt want to work in the first place.....well not outside,their electronics might get wet or dirty.:D

[Old Line Dog]

Rob, when I was teaching my Boss wanted to know why my Basic electricity class didn't include resistors. . . .I said because we aint building radios! She didn't think that was funny. Honest to god. Some of the Crap I've heard they teach Linemen in these "Schools".....Pure BS.

[rob8210]

Now just remember this was a 2 per year trade school. I recognized it right away only because i learned electronics theory in high school. I told my buddy to go back and ask why he needed to know this, he chickened out. I suppose its a good thing I wasn't going to third year school, I would have jumped all over that kind of crap.