Got a question for you? What determines wire size for heavy brace?

[bobbo]

Seen so many buckled arms. Anything over 1/0 we built with heavy duty braces? If we dead ended anything over 1/0 we triple armed. I have seen 795 on 8 fts with lagged braces all buckled. And seen dead end arms shaped like horseshoes.

i know canada is all areas in ontario with that k line material. And they build sturdy. But what are the some rules you go by or the companies rules?

when I go to places most people have no clue of Hughes arms. Never seen arm stiffeners or have built triples.

some guys don't know a heavy brace, bolt type. Or a v brace.

one property I doubled light duty braces back to back. Because the only braces they had. I replaced every set of braces for every structure. And all they had were those short lag braces. And it was 636 or 795 wire. You figure if you were a power company and you saw every brace broken from dead end to dead end you need something different. And there should be a rule somewhere. Somewhere in NESC. Common sense tells you that size of wire, length of spans, like calculating for hot stick width on your tong and saddle determines down pressure, and tension on a deadend. That calculation has got to be on your hardware also. Does anyone know the duty ratings on a lag type short braces, longer 27" heavy type braces with the5/8 by and half inch through the arm. And if you do triples or Hughes what size of wire mandates those?

thanks

[Old Line Dog]

Seen so many buckled arms. Anything over 1/0 we built with heavy duty braces? If we dead ended anything over 1/0 we triple armed. I have seen 795 on 8 fts with lagged braces all buckled. And seen dead end arms shaped like horseshoes.

i know canada is all areas in ontario with that k line material. And they build sturdy. But what are the some rules you go by or the companies rules?

when I go to places most people have no clue of Hughes arms. Never seen arm stiffeners or have built triples.

some guys don't know a heavy brace, bolt type. Or a v brace.

one property I doubled light duty braces back to back. Because the only braces they had. I replaced every set of braces for every structure. And all they had were those short lag braces. And it was 636 or 795 wire. You figure if you were a power company and you saw every brace broken from dead end to dead end you need something different. And there should be a rule somewhere. Somewhere in NESC. Common sense tells you that size of wire, length of spans, like calculating for hot stick width on your tong and saddle determines down pressure, and tension on a deadend. That calculation has got to be on your hardware also. Does anyone know the duty ratings on a lag type short braces, longer 27" heavy type braces with the5/8 by and half inch through the arm. And if you do triples or Hughes what size of wire mandates those?

thanks It's all in where ya live bobbo.
Sad to say....I'll bet there's not a LINEMAN on here who can tell you ANY of that...OR Care! It's all just in the "Print" on how the engineers want it built. Linemen, ain't payed to think nowdays. Just read the print bubba...and build it. I can **** sure remember the first Hughes Arm I ever hung...off of Hooks. THAT was so long ago...you probably didn't even know "HUGE" Arms...as we called em...even existed. So...No. Honestly, I can't help ya. Or care. I don't know nothing bout relay settings either...or want to. I expected the engineers that designed the prints to tell ME....All the right material to conform to the Loads of the lines they want ME to build. Linework is really Not Rocket Science. No matter how much some linemen want it to thought as such.

[US & CA Tramp]

I am with Old Line Dog on this one.

What I do know is every piece of material used on a job has engineering data on it. That and the weight being applied, and loading in an area such as ice loading in the north, will give the engineer the information needed to calculate the weights which then tells him what type of material to use. There is also something called "Over Building" that comes into play.

Like OLD said, give me the stuff and I will hang it where ever I am told, even on the out house....

[reppy007]

And I thought he was speaking a foreign language :nightmare:

[rob8210]

Well I have to agree with OLD too. Nowadays we have to build to specs that are approved by an engineer. Granted no two engineers agree on what is correct , like Bobbo says , some places spec double arm dead ends, some spec triples, some spec steel and now there is even fiberglass dead end x-arms as well. Now more than ever we have to follow that spec book. Sometimes you will get a defect on the dumbest things, depending on the inspector. I have even seen where the inspector knows nothing about linework, just looks at the picture to see if it matches the book.

[bobbo]

Well I have to agree with OLD too. Nowadays we have to build to specs that are approved by an engineer. Granted no two engineers agree on what is correct , like Bobbo says , some places spec double arm dead ends, some spec triples, some spec steel and now there is even fiberglass dead end x-arms as well. Now more than ever we have to follow that spec book. Sometimes you will get a defect on the dumbest things, depending on the inspector. I have even seen where the inspector knows nothing about linework, just looks at the picture to see if it matches the book.

And you have to put up the same braces that have failed all over. There is nothing in there spec or catalogue for heavy wire. No bolted type braces. So you do what you can to fix it. The two lag trick. Back to back on braces. Just polishing turds. I haven't seen any duty rating ever on a brace. Does anyone out there have an idea?

[rob8210]

You are right Bobbo, I can't say that I have ever seen a rating for brace irons. Being a contractor for a utility I end up using whatever the utility supplies. Where I am right now they tend to send the heavy 1/4" thick 1" wide braces that bolt on to the arm with 5/8" bolts and have to be bolted to the pole at the bottom. Most of the time anyway , now and then they send the old 34" braces that lag on. Don't ask me why, the tech specs it out. Granted we generally do armless construction. Most of the older construction on x_arms was built with the old standard brace irons, but for the most part they seem to be doing the job. All wire sizes up to 556mcm.

[lewy]

We use the same standards and material wether we are building a line with 1/0 or 556. All dead ends are done with steel arms and like rob most of our framing is armless. We have fairly short spans typically around 50 meters I believe.

[LAMartin.CVEC]

Everything on the system should be built to the highest design specs. Here at CVEC we used build with mixed spec (12.5 and 25kv dis) and recently (5 years or so ago) we started building everything to max spec for 25kv. HUGE benefits are starting to show. I'd actually like us to build for 34.5 RUS construction but we don't have any on our system so it won't happen until we do.

Just my thoughts,

Work safely,

L.A. Martin
Journeyman Div III/Retired
Electric System Operator
CVEC

[CDN Lineman]

3/0 is just regular 1" wide, 1/4" thick brace lagged to the pole. Anything bigger uses a "bow brace" thats bolted to the arm using 1/2" bolts and a 5/8" bolt through the pole.
I've strung 477 acsr on 60m spans. That is heavy to tie in.

[rob8210]

There are some of those bow braces around but I have never seen them installed here. I did put a few up the summer I worked in Connecticut though. Some things I out down to the new breed of engineers, like bisect guying, they can't seem to figure it out any more. All guying now is in line , even when property allows for bisect guying. I didn't think guying is rocket science , but........

[bobbo]

3/0 is just regular 1" wide, 1/4" thick brace lagged to the pole. Anything bigger uses a "bow brace" thats bolted to the arm using 1/2" bolts and a 5/8" bolt through the pole.
I've strung 477 acsr on 60m spans. That is heavy to tie in.

Those are super sturdy. The only thing I hate about v braces is there is a pin position right next to the arm bolt. There are many guys who are nicknamed righty and lefty when they grabbed hold of that brace. Seen phases right on top of that bolt. Seen gob ties where the tie wire touches?