Civil Engineer as a Lineman Foreman

[moefoe]

Just wanted to get your views on the selection of a Civil Engineer to a position that is titled Foreman III Lineman. He will be in charge of three small line crews. There were qualified experienced Linemen that also applied for this position. Am I making too big a deal out of an Engineer being called a Lineman without going through an apprenticeship?

[graybeard]

What kind of a dipstick outfit do you work for? A civil engineer as a lineman forman no matter what class is STUPID. What the HELL would a civil know about doing line work. Why would'nt they just call him a supervizer he can make sure you have your hard hat,hv vest,safety glasses,steel toes,wheel chocks and cones. If its like where I'm at they can't get a lineman to take a sups job because they treat them like shit so all you get is a know nothing.

[NJlineman55]

Company I used to work for replaced the line dept. supervisor position with a senior engineer tech. Basically the only reason he got the job was because 1) none of the 1st level foremen wanted it and because they knew it was a lameduck job and 2) the company new they could make him do whatever they wanted. That is the main reason why a company would put someone like that in that position.

There was a lineman in this company that was a journeyman for over 10 years who went to college, got a bachelor degree in business while working for them and he can't get a job anywhere in supervision. You want to know why?? The company suckballs know that they wouldn't be able to push him around and that he would fight for whats right for the men, not try to screw them. More and more these companies hire puppets to do there dirty work. Welcome to the future of linework!!

[Trampbag]

A friend of mine once said, “The scariest 8 words in the line trade are – Hi, I’m an engineer. I’m here to help!”

Lineman is a tradesman who served an apprenticeship to qualify. Engineer is a professional who attended university or college to certify for qualification. Considering that this particular engineer is civil, not electrical, he can design and certify the duct work for your URD.

Sounds like you have a serious safety problem. Document everything with witnesses, times and dates and carry a camera. When the inevitable happens, someone may go to jail.

[Uma]

At PEFla they had an apprintice who they told to find a job somewhere elese in the company because he was not cut out to do line work.So he went to be a draftman for a couple years.Then they made him a foreman over line crews.(Go Figure Huh......) and they wonder why the senior journeymen won't touch the job.Like Trampbag said keep notes............

[dirtdobber]

an engineer is still a engineer no matter what you do if he dont have the field exp. then leave the individual behind the desk!!! :mad:

[alexlights]

So funny. They engineer could have 20+ years experience in electical construction, tons of substation back ground, Maybe started as a lineman, and took night classes to get a degree.... I guess what i'm saying is, i find it funny how people jump without all the information. All we got was.."Civil Engineer to a position that is titled Foreman III Lineman". Hell Foreman III lineman might just be a planners job or a simple clerk.

:)

"Am I making too big a deal out of an Engineer being called a Lineman without going through an apprenticeship?" the answer (based on the lack of information)....yes.

Be safe.....

[Trampbag]

Alexlights says: (Yup, a systems and design engineer.)


"Am I making too big a deal out of an Engineer being called a Lineman without going through an apprenticeship?"

Words of wisdom?

NOT!

[Trampbag]

Codicil to above,

Att: alexlights or anyone else impersonating a Journeyman Lineman.

You are not a skilled tradesman unless you serve your time in an apprenticeship.

What is Apprenticeship?

Apprenticeship is a system of supervised activities through which an individual learns a skilled trade or occupation. The apprentice learns practical skills and technical knowledge. The practical skills are learned through experiences working with journeypersons already skilled in the trade. The technical knowledge is learned through attendance at technical training classes.


Persons with a PEng after their name are not skilled tradesmen unless they have served an apprenticeship as well.

Any engineer understands that qualifications to be a professional electrical engineer are clear as defined by the IEE. Those qualifications do not entitle the breaching of limits of approach to high voltage systems. Generally, aside from a few workers such as tree trimmers and that has a limitation, only linemen are qualified, under OH&SA organisations, to go beyond the 10’ rule. I personally know of no Professional Engineers who would really want to.

Alexlights are you also impersonating an Professional Engineer?

[moefoe]

FYI: The Engineer selected is a great guy and very knowledgeable regarding our T-Line system and a friend of mine and other Linemen….he has construction/inspection experience and is very sharp regarding many T-Line and substation issues…but does not have the “hands on” experience or Lineman credentials. The selection may work out this time but what about in the future as this is very precedent setting. I guess that my main objection is that I feel that Management had "back-doored" this selection by selecting a manager type to a position that has been historically a craft position. I would not have felt this way if prior to opening up this position or changing the title of the position if management would have discussed this issue in good faith with the Union and allowed the Union to voice any concerns. I think that it will be along time if ever, before we will see another Craftsman in this position. This selection basically cuts out a position that a qualified Lineman would be able to strive for or achieve when it is time to hang up his hooks. I would not have as much heartburn with this decision if this position had been advertised as a "T-Line Dept. Supervisor", "Line Crew Director" etc. But...........the position is called a Foreman III LINEMAN. If the position would have been advertised as a Dept. Supervisor or Director, I am sure that more management types would have applied for this position, instead of thinking that being a Lineman was a prerequisite for the job. The Union will probably accept him into the Union since this is a bargaining unit position. I don't think that a Lineman would get very far if he were to apply for a job titled "Supervisory Civil Engineer” without having Engineering credentials no matter what his background is. These are just my thoughts. I feel that it takes away from the title of Linemen for someone to have the title of a Lineman that has neither “worked” the trade for years paying his dues, learning his craft and/or served a formal apprenticeship. I do appreciate all of your responses. Coming up through a trade allows for a person to know what can be accomplished in a safe manner with the Men, materials and equipment available, by drawing on past experiences. I have been told that Management has the right to hire anyone they want for this position and that they feel that he is the best fit. I don’t think that Safety will be a factor as the Linemen decide for themselves what is safe…..but I am unsure of what may be asked of them.

[edski104]

if the union lets this guy in and keeps quiet about him overseeing JL's,they should have their heads pulled out of their collective asses. if a company wants to make me a general foreman and i have no line experence,thats the company's problem, but what would he be sworn into the union as?? would he just be handed a ticket that I and all the rest of the JL's had to earn.or just sworn in as a grunt and be the boss anyways. engineers have their place,in the front of the train,not in front of me. i feel for you,bro, get out your slide rule and lets try this because it looks good from the office.

[Sno10]

what is the job description for Lineman Foreman III? File a grievance if he doesn't meet the qualifications for it or meet the job description. Is a foreman III a working/hands on member of these crews ever.

[dbrown20]

This wouldn't be WAPA would it? dbrown20

[moefoe]

what is the job description for Lineman Foreman III? File a grievance if he doesn't meet the qualifications for it or meet the job description. Is a foreman III a working/hands on member of these crews ever.

The qualifications are not clear (intentionally????) and may be interpretted differently??
"You must have journeyman-level ability in the duties of a Lineman."
Then if you click on a link to "review the qualifications requirement here", it brings you to a screen that has the requirements for "Journey Level" that has all of the sensible things that a Journeyman Lineman would be expected to do.....ie, climb, work safely, knowledge of electric theory, troubleshooting.....and the BIG one that you MUST qualify for:
(element #1) /"Ability to do journeyman lineman work constructing and maintaining transmission or distribution power lines and related equipment, without more than normal supervision."(Screen out)
BUT!!! on the Foreman qualification requirement it only says: Replace element #1 above with:"1. Ability to lead the work of Lineman. (Screen out)".
Go figure???
As far as your other question, "Is a foreman III a working/hands on member of these crews ever" ...it is mainly office type work with frequent trips in to the field with "Some climbing and lifting maybe required to inspect work or occasionally assist crew."

[dirtdobber]

question #1 is he or she qualified to make decisions on his or her own or must said individual seek someone elses opinion? post his qualifications before you start giving real journeyman shit BOY!!!!

[moefoe]

question #1 is he or she qualified to make decisions on his or her own or must said individual seek someone elses opinion? post his qualifications before you start giving real journeyman shit BOY!!!!

Dirtdobber, a few things...........I have been a REAL Journeyman Lineman for over 25 years and I am a BOY of over 50 years of age. I think you must have missed my posting #10 on this thread that explains "said individuals" qualifications......

[dirtdobber]

your correct I missed the post. my thoughts and expierence with engineers. if they come from the field and become journeyman lineman I will respect them as I do my other brothers out there. but if they have no field exp. then I want to be as far removed from them as I can.

[dbrown20]

Answered your PM. When I worked for WAPA and SWPA the foreman 3 was a nonworking position but within the Union contract. After I left WAPA I believe the Govt. exempted them from the union. Kinda sorry. Anyway they were always on the location when work was being done and without being a former lineman they would not have been able to do their job as I experienced .dbrown20