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View Full Version : Illegal Mexican Workers Protest, "A day without a Mexican"



CenterPointEX
05-02-2006, 09:27 PM
A bunch of the illegals protested at work monday... they were rewarded by getting laid of and then offered a job back at mimimum wage... Some of the harder, smarter workers had gotten fifty cent raise, which they lost by not showing up on A day without a Mexican...
___________

These illegals took the jobs of Power Company Hands in Houston... CenterPoint Energy / Reliant Energy / Houston Lighting and Power / HL&P can not hire Illegal Workers... Too much trouble with the Law... So, they are getting rid of their employees and using contractors who can and do hire illegal workers... These illegal workers work for mimimum wage or less... These are modern day slaves...

dirtdobber
05-02-2006, 09:33 PM
so a day without a mexican couldnt really tell they were not working have them try a few years next time.

Orgnizdlbr
05-03-2006, 06:59 AM
A bunch of the illegals protested at work monday... they were rewarded by getting laid of and then offered a job back at mimimum wage... Some of the harder, smarter workers had gotten fifty cent raise, which they lost by not showing up on A day without a Mexican...
___________

These illegals took the jobs of Power Company Hands in Houston... CenterPoint Energy / Reliant Energy / Houston Lighting and Power / HL&P can not hire Illegal Workers... Too much trouble with the Law... So, they are getting rid of their employees and using contractors who can and do hire illegal workers... These illegal workers work for mimimum wage or less... These are modern day slaves...

CP, I know I am in a different state with different state law, are you telling me that HLP cant hire illegals but a contractor can? I dont understand...do you have a dept of labor in Texas, has the illegal problem been reported to them, have they acted or sat on their hands?

CenterPointEX
05-03-2006, 07:56 PM
That is correct HL&P \ Houston LIghting and Power \ CenterPoint Energy \ Reliant Energy, can not hire illegal workers. If a Large Corperation does this the implications are more than the public would be able to stomache... But, if I decided to start up a company that does linework... My company would be able to make a lot of money fast, by using Mexican Slave Labor, and contracting myself out to the Light Company... an if I have to fold when I get caught, so be it... I have been moving my money continuiosly out of the company and investing it in other things... Same game Enron was playing... Everybody in Texas knows that the building and maint of our infrastructure is bourne on the backs of Mexican Wage Slaves... It is sweet to the taste but sours in the stomache... Meaning that for a while we reaped great benifits from this method... But just like the slavery in early America, the time is comming and has now come to "Pay the Piper"... It was a merry ole time, but the party has gotten out of control... One can not drive anywhere in the city of Houston without seeing these men and women... The City of Houston will not break the law and hire illegals... but the City of Houston is contracting out services to contractors who hire nothing but illegal Mexican Wage Slaves... Everybody is looking the other way including me... Why would I do such a thing? If I want to keep my job, I have no other choice... Whenever there is going to be a raid on our workplace, the Mexicans know about it before hand... When somebody tips the authorities, our management knows who done it...? Now, we are choking on Mexican Wage Slaves... They are taking American Jobs and outsourcing them to citizens of other countries right under our noses... Instead of sending our factories across the border in search of cheap wage slavesk they are bringing the wage slaves to our side of the fence... The net effect is jobless Americans like myself three years ago... It is like a drug addiction... If we quit cold turkey, we will suffer withdrawl pains... If we don't stop it... the drug will cause the demise of the American Dream... The American Worker was what he was because he was made by men who thought it important to Love thy neighbor as thyself... Companies built by men like these took care of their employees... They rewarded loyalty with things like liveable pensions and vacation time... Employees returned this loyality and bought into the Company with their time talents and treasures... But, Alas,... America has attempted to castrate God, if that were possible... It spawned the me generation... and now "We Pay the Piper"".....

wayne440
05-03-2006, 08:27 PM
The underlying reason for this "illegal" mess has roots in the upset of the supply/demand balance where labor is concerned. Wages have been raised artificially higher by minimum wage laws, union activity and other outside forces. In many instances a "legal" employee costs far more than the inherent worth of the job he/she performs. No wonder a hamburger costs $4 or 5 lately, even when it might be prepared and sold by people who have difficulty making change without a register to do the math.

The demand for low cost labor/manual labor is being met by "illegals" because the average high school graduate feels entitled to more than he/she is actually worth in the job market, and will not do the job.
Everyone seems to think they should start out at 25-35k a year, with 3 or 4 weeks of vacation time- there simply are not that many jobs like that around for the taking.

Message to those who want the short version- It is called "work" for a reason- if the job was fun and easy all the time, you would be paying for it, not getting paid to do it. You are going to have to do things you don't like, so get used to it early and get over it, or watch an "illegal" take your job.

I don't like this mess any more than the next guy, but it didn't happen overnight and probably won't be fixed that quickly. Government action to remove illegal residents would be a good start, but not a long term solution.

W

CenterPointEX
05-03-2006, 09:30 PM
The underlying reason for this "illegal" mess has roots in the upset of the supply/demand balance where labor is concerned. Wages have been raised artificially higher by minimum wage laws, union activity and other outside forces.
....In many instances a "legal" employee costs far more than the inherent worth of the job he/she performs. No wonder a hamburger costs $4 or 5 lately, even when it might be prepared and sold by people who have difficulty making change without a register to do the math.

The demand for low cost labor/manual labor is being met by "illegals"
W

Wayne, where I work, Illegals are doing electrical work. They are doing a lot of things wrong. There is a reason folks have to have a license and training to do this type of work. I am working with them. The problem is bigger than I can fix even in my sphere. I can see; because I worked about fifteen years as a trouble shooter, the long term effect of what they are doing... They have not a clue... by the time shit hits the fan these Mexicans will be long gone...

...For instance, I see these guys pulling cable up tight against sharp edges around corners... I know that after time vibration will cut the insulation and the cable will ground out... whether it be in switchgear or transformers... These Mexicans come and go... it does no good to train them... It gets done cheap... by slave labor that has no ownership of the work they do... Wayne, Unions were formed, laws were made, and wars were fought that no one would again in this country exploit people for profit... we thought we stopped slavery with the Civil War... But I am tell you WAyne... These people are not being paid a liveable wage... They all send money home to Mexico... If they did not, their relatives back in Mexico would starve. Unions were formed so that a company could not force march their employees for a loaf of bread... These Mexicans are being force marched for a bag of beans... The reason they do so is that they have no alternative... Mexico offers them none... Wayne, these guys are doning line work... The Light Company will in the future, pay thru the nose for what they get done on the cheap today. But it don't stop there... They are building our infrastructure... electrical systems, bridges and roadways... Just like in the early days, made in Tiawan was junk... because it was built by uneducated, poor wage slaves... but we bought it because it was cheap... How much of the crap we buy kids for Christmas even makes it through the end of January? Now apply this thought to the integrity of our Nations infrastructure... A Subdivision built in this manor is todays "Chic" and tomorrows slum... Can you say Yugo?

wayne440
05-04-2006, 12:29 AM
I'm well aware of the reasoning behind labor unions etc., and obviously this discussion could turn that way fairly easily, but the "illegal" problem would still exist today even if every labor union was disbanded overnight. The problem is that there is a shortage of trained/skilled/concientious workers that will work for the wage that the current labor market will bear.

Yes, Mexicans are doing line work, driving freight trucks, laying up brick and plumbing etc. because they will do these jobs that today's "American" won't. I have a friend that is a plumber locally, and he cannot find a helper from the local "non-Mexican" sources that will show up for more than the first day or two. He doesn't pay $25/hr, but beats a minimum wage hamburger flipper's pay by a great deal. He is strongly "American", and is wrestling with the issue now- hire a Mexican, or operate the shovel himself?

My Dad drove a commercial truck from the age of 15 until he retired at 65, and made what he considered a "good living". He was proud of his work and highly regarded as a safe and concientious driver, who could be trusted to get the job done. High school kids now scoff at the thought of such a job, even though a minimally experienced OTR driver can make 40-50k a year without working too hard. Since even modern trucks won't drive themselves, what would you do if you owned a fleet that had to be on the road? Hire a barely qualified (but willing) Mexican, or let the truck sit while the payments still come due monthly?

Sad as it is, most American workers are over-paid for what they do, compared to the rest of the world economy. The labor market is overdue for what stock market people would call a "correction" where the price of a commodity that has been driven up by indirectly related forces suddenly falls. The rush to move US manufacturing jobs overseas (how much is it really worth for a man/woman to stand beside a machine and push a button, then watch it operate?) and the influx of "illegal" manual labor is the tip of the iceberg. Hang on to your hats folks, we are in for quite a ride here.

W

Orgnizdlbr
05-04-2006, 08:15 AM
I'm well aware of the reasoning behind labor unions etc., and obviously this discussion could turn that way fairly easily, but the "illegal" problem would still exist today even if every labor union was disbanded overnight. The problem is that there is a shortage of trained/skilled/concientious workers that will work for the wage that the current labor market will bear.

Yes, Mexicans are doing line work, driving freight trucks, laying up brick and plumbing etc. because they will do these jobs that today's "American" won't. I have a friend that is a plumber locally, and he cannot find a helper from the local "non-Mexican" sources that will show up for more than the first day or two. He doesn't pay $25/hr, but beats a minimum wage hamburger flipper's pay by a great deal. He is strongly "American", and is wrestling with the issue now- hire a Mexican, or operate the shovel himself?

My Dad drove a commercial truck from the age of 15 until he retired at 65, and made what he considered a "good living". He was proud of his work and highly regarded as a safe and concientious driver, who could be trusted to get the job done. High school kids now scoff at the thought of such a job, even though a minimally experienced OTR driver can make 40-50k a year without working too hard. Since even modern trucks won't drive themselves, what would you do if you owned a fleet that had to be on the road? Hire a barely qualified (but willing) Mexican, or let the truck sit while the payments still come due monthly?

Sad as it is, most American workers are over-paid for what they do, compared to the rest of the world economy. The labor market is overdue for what stock market people would call a "correction" where the price of a commodity that has been driven up by indirectly related forces suddenly falls. The rush to move US manufacturing jobs overseas (how much is it really worth for a man/woman to stand beside a machine and push a button, then watch it operate?) and the influx of "illegal" manual labor is the tip of the iceberg. Hang on to your hats folks, we are in for quite a ride here.

W

A very interesting theory, obviously ALL problems associated with the question of illegals doing linework in Texas stem from high paid union people. If you know, or if you can, expand on your theory and advise us on how deregulation of the electric utility industry impacted how the utilities do business with regards to reliability, return to the shareholder, and compensation of the CEO, CFO of said companies. Who, if you know, is the first priority of the utility in the real world, and who is the first priority of the utility supposed to be?

wayne440
05-04-2006, 09:17 AM
Did you miss the first paragraph of my post? "Union vs. non-union" is a dead horse on this board. The presence or lack of a union has little to do with setting the "wage that the current labor market will bear", other that the fact that today's unions sometimes price themselves out of the market. Unfortunately, the world labor market now influences wages here in the US to a much greater degree than it has in the past, and this will probably be the case for the foreseeable future.

Management and labor in any large business generally feel that priorities should differ, the electric industry isn't any different in that regard.

Orgnizdlbr
05-04-2006, 11:00 AM
Did you miss the first paragraph of my post? "Union vs. non-union" is a dead horse on this board. The presence or lack of a union has little to do with setting the "wage that the current labor market will bear", other that the fact that today's unions sometimes price themselves out of the market. Unfortunately, the world labor market now influences wages here in the US to a much greater degree than it has in the past, and this will probably be the case for the foreseeable future.

Management and labor in any large business generally feel that priorities should differ, the electric industry isn't any different in that regard.

Perhaps I missed your point. If you can, explain to me how the most American workers are over paid for the work they do. If you can, reconcile for us how a highly unionized western european country, Germany for instance, can compensate workers so well and still compete.

You did not answer the questions specific to dereg. of the utility industry and the impact on reliability, executive compensation, and stockholder return. Do any of the previous scenerios play a role in the reduction of an in house workforce and the employment of illegals as described by CP?

wayne440
05-04-2006, 03:25 PM
I don't intend to address specific industry related scenarios, as the "illegal" problem is spread across any number of industries/jobs. It isn't a question of what "company X" could pay for labor, as almost any company could pay at least a little more. The issue is that many companies no longer see the average "American" worker as a good value for the $$$, compared to the workforce available in other countries or by way of under-the-table hiring.

The bottom line is that unless there are drastic changes this country is likely to be headed for a depression that will make the 30's look like good times.

W

CenterPointEX
05-04-2006, 05:08 PM
Wayne, I think you view the world these days from an Ivory Tower... You don't have a clue what is being asked of American Labor today... You work for the goverment... Your pension and bennies are a pipe dream for todays labor... What if your pension, retirement, insurance, etc. were suddenly jerked from under you? And you were replaced with a illegal worker who received none of the bennies? You'd be madder than a thumped hornets nest. Just kick back for a moment and imagine how life would be for you without all those securities.... imagine..., this is happening every day in America. It happened to me... and now I work side by side with these illegal workers.
.... I don't have a problem with supply and demand driving the cost of labor... as long as it is legal labor...
....You keep repeating the MANTRA, these illegal workers are doing jobs Americans won't do. This is not true... Americans would love to have these jobs... But Americans have to pay the price of being American... Americans pay fees for having a drivers license, car insurance, health insurance etc... Illegal Mexican wage slaves have no desire for these things... Oh, they have cars... and they drive... But, what would be the point of an illegal alien having car insurance? or a drivers liscense for that matter... They literally will will work for a bag of beans... Imagine your proud truck driving father working then for todays equivelant of $45 a day less social security. These Mexicans typically live with about 7 to 10 others in a 1500 or less square foot living space. They can not open a bank account so they send their money home to Mexico and the rest they keep in a shoe box... or their left shoe... One of the guys I work with, some days has raw potato for lunch... You can not tell me your proud father would have driven a truck for wages that qualify him for food stamps? Oh maybe he would have... but only under duress...

wayne440
05-04-2006, 05:49 PM
I'm not defending the practice of hiring illegals by any means and I'm certainly not going to say that I have an end all solution for the problem. And those who lose "good" jobs to illegals have every reason to be upset, as I would be in that situation.

I would be all for a solution that would allow all legal US citizens to have a job that would provide them with what we in the US consider an average living (nice house and decent automobile, plus money for food, clothing and a bit to save), but cannot see how that can be done when such a lifestyle is so far ahead of that of many other countries who compete for industry's labor $$$.

Sure, I have a "good" government job, I make about half as much as a typical journeyman lineman, and have a retirement plan that is funded with the $$ I don't get to take home. Our health insurance blows just like most everyone else's does to the point I can't afford it, and this year's "raise" will be less than $20/week. If my spouse wasn't working at a well known discount store, I wouldn't have health insurance-at least her's is somewhat affordable. Nonetheless it beats working for Comcast by a wide margin.

I'm paying off my debts as quickly as possible, so that when the economy goes to hell in a handbag, I will still have a roof over my head, and my 20 year old pickup truck. I suggest that many of you here consider doing likewise.

This mess has been building up for a long time, beginning with the exodus of US manufacturing jobs to overseas locations. The only economic difference now is that the labor is coming to us, instead of plants moving out of the US, people are moving in.

W

Goathead
05-05-2006, 10:51 PM
I thought they were coming to do jobs that Americans didnt want.How does that have any thing to do with bringing down wage rates?Unless theyre jobs Americans do want and are doing.Thier is a big difference between losing jobs to over seas slave companies,then bringing illegal slaves to our country to lower our wages.labor is a small percentage of cost,but its one of the only costs that these gready companies can abuse.When the cost of oil goes up,the cost of everything goes up.So the only way these gready bastard ceos can keep thier big salaries and bonuses,is to screw the workers.If our cowardly,bought government would do thier dam jobs,then the playing field would be equal.Then we could see "what the market would bear" in a legal American workforce.

CenterPointEX
05-05-2006, 11:18 PM
Ummmm, I am thinking I got the soultion... We all take the mark of the Beast... there will be no buying or selling without it... No working across the border etc... Ya, thats it... we all take the chip... then we will know who is who and where they are... N just in case they try to take the chip out to move around... we can put R.F.I.D. in their underwear and nailpolish... Oh wait, we already done that...

Goathead
05-06-2006, 12:14 AM
I have no problem with a global economy,thiers negitives and positives for our country in that i.e.loss off manufacturing jobs,but increases in service an technologies.what were talking about here is,companies specificly exploiting people for financial gain,having these people do jobs that thier not qualified or trained to do,and one of those jobs,is a power lineman.And last I knew at least in the northeast thats a petty sought after job.And if youre comparing my thoughts to Hitlers,you couldnt be more wrong.Id call the current situation legalized slavery.No,good christian would want to see any human exploited for greed.Isnt that one of the seven deadly sins?

wayne440
05-06-2006, 11:55 AM
"Jobs that Americans won't do" was perhaps a poor choice of words. How about jobs that Americans (a) prefer not to do (b) "can't afford" to do (c) would take if "the pay was right". However you put it, these jobs will not support the lifestyle that many Americans believe that they are entitled to. On the other hand, the job that I could barely get by on is a fantastic wage to "Jose Mexican", and he is glad to have it, far from thinking he is working for slave wages.

Ethical or not, industry has been trying for years to cut labor expenses, and now that the labor pool is drawing from global sources there is a vast opportunity to do so. Many (if not most) domestic employees are looking for more every year, not less, and will "stick to their guns" to avoid a wage cut even if it may drive their employer into the red. One or the other is going to have to give, and it doesn't look like it is going to be the "company", unless the government intervenes.

W

Goathead
05-06-2006, 04:01 PM
The illegals that come here want to stay here.You act as if they come to pick fruit at 7:00am and then take thier 3.50/hr back home to mexico at 4:00pm,if you cant live on that in this country,what makes you think they can.Unless you think its ok for the rest of us to pay for the bills the illegals cant like education,and medical,not to mention retirement.The fact is that once they get amnesty,they wont want to do these jobs either.Thiers a huge difference from bringing in skilled and educated immagrants on work visas.These people are un documented illegals period.and as far as companies looking for cheaper labor,to keep the doors open thats thier right.but if thiers a union involved they have to go through the court system to lower wages.If a company is in trouble then every one should help bail it out not just the workers.What do you suppose would happen to a country that has its wage rates lowered by a legalized third world work force,and its cost of living and taxes stay the same or increase,wouldnt we become the third world country.

wayne440
05-06-2006, 06:34 PM
It is entirely possible (and IMHO probable) that the US will suffer economic repercussions, to a serious degree.


...The bottom line is that unless there are drastic changes this country is likely to be headed for a depression that will make the 30's look like good times...

It should be obvious that no one is forcing "illegals" to enter the US, so why do they sneak over the border in droves? Perhaps because they see conditions here as better than those at home, even if the job is sub-standard to my or your own expectations.



I would be all for a solution that would allow all legal US citizens to have a job that would provide them with what we in the US consider an average living (nice house and decent automobile, plus money for food, clothing and a bit to save), but cannot see how that can be done when such a lifestyle is so far ahead of that of many other countries who compete for industry's labor $$$.

Perhaps all we have to do is tell these "illegals" how bad they have it here and they will go home.

W

wayne440
05-06-2006, 10:43 PM
A "wall" would be great if properly built and patrolled, but that isn't the politically correct thing these days. If it were my decision to make- How about this- military reserve units need to train regularly, so lets send them to the border attached to the Army Corps of Engineers. I think about 15ft high with a bit of 7200 on top will do to start. I believe it is long past time for the US to secure the border everywhere, not just to the south.

CenterPointEX
05-07-2006, 10:55 AM
Goathead makes a valid Point... as soon as these illegals get their papers, they will no longer be of use to those who exploit them... As soon as they become legal, they have to start paying the price of being American... You know getting a Drivers liscense etc... And thus they will require a wage that leaves enough to buy a bag of beans after they pay the price of being American... Because they can no longer be exploited, they will join the ranks of the unemployeed, while they watch a new illegal counterpart assume their position...
................... Meanwhile those of us who still have a legal job will dig deeper to care for the Illegal Wage Slaves who were made legal... and thus charges of the Uninted States Welfare System

wayne440
05-12-2006, 10:07 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12754924/

You heard it here first.

Dave@PSE&G
05-14-2006, 11:50 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone is here illegally, then they have NOT earned any rights provided by the flag of the United States. NO right to citizenship, No right to vote, No right to an education, No right to medical care, and DEFINITELY no right to protest a fucking thing!!! I know I sound like a cold scumbag, but there are CITIZENS of this country sleeping in the streets, and we have to indulge border jumpers DEMANDING that they get what they want. Then, as if that wasn't enough, we have to listen to the National Anthem sung in Spanish. What the ...!!!! Honestly, I have no problem with people coming here for a better life, but sign the fucking book on the way in, pay into the system, and then cut the grass. It's too high from the day off they all had!

wayne440
05-14-2006, 07:15 PM
Good for you. I actually meant "first" on this board, as I certainly don't presume my suggestion to be original.

thrasher
05-16-2006, 09:57 AM
Swamp I liked the presidents speech HOWEVER I will lay odds that what the president described and what (if anything) is passed by congress will bear only a faint relationship to each other. The problem is both parties are trying to court the new hispanic voters so neither one is going to really crack down on the illegal immigrants. Hope I'm wrong but I doubt it. This is one issue where I just don't see and haven't seen much if any action for the last twenty years.

CenterPointEX
05-17-2006, 06:31 PM
On occasion I agree with Swamp...

CenterPointEX
05-25-2006, 09:40 PM
The Senate Passes Amnesty for Illegals Today


4 Democrats and 32 Republicans voted against amnesty for illegal aliens.

38 Democrats 23 Republicans and 1 Independent voted FOR amnesty. How did your Senator vote?Grouped By Vote Position

Against Amnesty ---36

Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bond (R-MO)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Nelson (D-NE)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)

-----------------------------------------------------

For Amnesty ---62

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brownback (R-KS) THIS COCKSUCKER IS MINE
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Craig (R-ID)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 2

Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)

dbrown20
05-26-2006, 01:49 PM
Why is Swampy so hung up on a sick bird? An Ill Eagle.....? You know they have this book called a dictionary. Sometimes it ..... Aw forget it. dbrown20

dbrown20
05-29-2006, 08:12 PM
Have you ever heard of a Freudian Slip DBrown?

By the way, WWW.Dictionary.com (http://WWW.Dictionary.com) works just good as the hard copy.


WWW.Bible.com (http://WWW.Bible.com) will give you some answers you won't find in the dictionary though

If you just crossed the river and are wondering what to do next... http://www.illegalimmagrant.com/

Yes and I've also heard of a dumb ass slip in his case. I also have read that part of the bible that says beware of wolves in sheep's clothing preacherman. dbrown20

CenterPointEX
04-11-2007, 06:53 PM
Were back to the Mexican thing again