Fiberglass jib on bucket trucks

[jamie_climbs]

Hi fellas,

I'm a journeyman in Edina, MN, and I'm also the safety guy for our division. Recently we had an incident in an outlying area where there was some arcing at the turret of one of our new squirt boom freightliner bucket trucks.

To make a long story short, the guy went up and grabbed a floating energized 19.9 kV line with his jib in the conductor handling head, but he only had it extended about 6" from his bucket. The pole top tie had come off, and he was going to replace the pole top pin and tie. Additionally, the fiber boom extension wasn't out past the recommended length for working with energized conductors. That's when the arcing was noticed at the turret... no flash, but just some buzzing that was noticable.

Here's the rub: now our utility safety department has recommended that we DON'T EVER use our jibs to handle energized conductors without a special jib insert that we don't have, or we have to rubber the phase and then place it in the jib head (which everyone knows won't work... won't fit, can't go around sleeves, etc.). There was some discussion today at one of our safety meetings about what common practice is around the country with contractors and utilities when it comes to handling hot primary with jibs.

So... what's your common practice? Do you use an insert? Just check the jib and clean it before use? Just use the damn thing? Any feedback would be great, because nothing's official yet and we might be able to turn the tide.

Our policy here has been to this point to just use the thing, and visually inspect it with routine maintenance and testing. Also, we rubber glove 13.8 kV, which might lend some insight as to why we're so adamant about using our jibs this way.

Thanks!
Jamie

[hantzr]

Hey there Jamie, we have jibs on 3 of our buckets (2 doubles and a single) and we just use the conductor jib head like you do and have never had any problems. The jib according to what I have learned should be out at least 18 inches, I have also been taught that the jib is never to be considered insulated, so as soon as we pick up the conductor we assume the buckets and the entire jib is alive. The only thing I guess that would separate us from the turret is the inserts in the boom. So i would say that if you had your boom extended out to the recommened distance and the jib out 18 inches you shouldnt have any problems but stranger things have happened.

[h0tgl0v3r]

Hey Jamie,
We have always been told the jib must be at least 18" out and the conductor must be hosed. I guess we must be using a different jib head but I've worked for Utility Co and Contractor here (UK) on Altec, Versalift and Simon Telelect booms and never had a problem. We dont use an insert.

We got our initial training and procedures from Ontario Hydro guys, but I've worked other places (in the UK) and the rules on this issue are much the same.

[42linehand]

I love to use my jib. Depending on the voltage I might throw a pig tail on the jib to isolate it, but that is about it. If it is covered wire and depending on the voltage I might pick with just the line and shackle if not I will use hose or the pigtail

[old lineman]

Jamie, hantzr was correct about the jib being extended a minimum of 18". Don't forget the jib is hollow and can become contaminated on the inside.
It's not considered a live tine tool because it isn't foam filled therefore moisture ingression is anticipated. You should attempt an inside cleaning to improve the non-condutivity but still consider it conductive.
The other thing you mentioned was 19.9kv, to me that voltage is above the limit for an extensible boom. We are taught that only articulating booms should be used on voltages over 15kv. phase to phase.
The Old Lineman

[44kv]

jamie we use a fiberglass extinson that is about afoot to 18 inchs long that has a jib hook on one end and what looks like a "I" nut on the other so it goes inline with the jib line and we call it a "deadman" i dont really know what people call them but we get them from safty test in shelby NC. there web site is www.safetytest.net there is a pic of one if you go under live line equipment in the bottom right corner hope this helps.

[thrasher]

The conductor head we have on our altec booms will hold wire with up to a class three hose on the wire. When we need to go to class four (19.9/34.5kv) rubber we use the jib line with an insulator link and a short rope around the class four hose. We do test our jibs but that is only once a year so standard procedure calls for line hose, also the wire is within reaching distance in the jib so we keep it covered unless actually tieing or un-tieing the wire. Most of the time when we test the jibs they have to be cleaned on the inside to pass. We also use a hot line product from Hastings we call a christmas tree that hooks to the jib like the conductor head that allows you to lay in and control three phases. Hope this helps.

["little beaver"]

Jibs are only limited by their size and length. The highest voltage I've worked with a FG Jib was 138kv. The jib (as I remember) was 4"X6" and about 6' to 7' long manufactured by AB Chance. It was on a Pitman 55' Bucket It was tested to 500kv (wet and dry) as are all BC Hydro jibs and booms.
We were cutting in a GOAB switch hot on a 138kv circuit. We went from a K frame single pole structure to a 3 pole. After everything was in place, we couldn't get the switch to operate properly as it was a used switch and parts were missing etc., but after a few trips to the machine shop we got it working.
OL can probably remember the location. It was between Dawson Creek, BC (Mile O on the Alaska Highway) and Fort St John where the line crosses the Peace River. Sam Kosolosky was the Foreman. I have some photos somewhere, as it was only the second time it had been done in BC.

[old lineman]

Jibs are only limited by their size and length. The highest voltage I've worked with a FG Jib was 138kv. The jib (as I remember) was 4"X6" and about 6' to 7' long manufactured by AB Chance. It was on a Pitman 55' Bucket It was tested to 500kv (wet and dry) as are all BC Hydro jibs and booms.
We were cutting in a GOAB switch hot on a 138kv circuit. We went from a K frame single pole structure to a 3 pole. After everything was in place, we couldn't get the switch to operate properly as it was a used switch and parts were missing etc., but after a few trips to the machine shop we got it working.
OL can probably remember the location. It was between Dawson Creek, BC (Mile O on the Alaska Highway) and Fort St John where the line crosses the Peace River. Sam Kosolosky was the Foreman. I have some photos somewhere, as it was only the second time it had been done in BC.

Hey Mike,
I'm no elephant. I know where your talking about, but do you think I can remember that specific job? Not on your life.
Perhaps it would be productive to delve into the reasons for NOT using extensible booms for this voltage level.
I believe anyone who is hearing or seeing current leakage at the turret has a serious current leakage problem.
This can be caused by a dirty interior of the boom or linear scratching of the gel coat.
How long would this go on before a structural failure? I don't know but that is a symptom of a big problem. It shouldn't be ignored should it?
The Old Lineman

[Trampbag]

I agree that there is a problem forming here. Booms should be tested once a year using a Hi-pot at around 100Kv – 750Kv DC (higher voltages for transmission booms) for around 10 - 20 minutes, or retested if suspect.

Jibs should be tested (at 50Kv to 100Kv per foot for 5 minutes) and treated like a hotstick. Jibs should not be treated as part of the boom.

If you are experiencing “arcing” around the turret when a phase is contacted that means you have a very serious problem happening.

Although booms should never be relied on as protection for a lineman making contact with a phase I have made contact on 14.4/25 Kv, with no ill effects, on a clean boom.

[old lineman]

I agree that there is a problem forming here. Booms should be tested once a year using a Hi-pot at around 100Kv – 750Kv DC (higher voltages for transmission booms) for around 10 - 20 minutes, or retested if suspect.

Jibs should be tested (at 50Kv to 100Kv per foot for 5 minutes) and treated like a hotstick. Jibs should not be treated as part of the boom.

If you are experiencing “arcing” around the turret when a phase is contacted that means you have a very serious problem happening.

Although booms should never be relied on as protection for a lineman making contact with a phase I have made contact on 14.4/25 Kv, with no ill effects, on a clean boom.


We were taught that aerial devices working on sub transmission and transmission ( 25kv-up to whatever) should be tested at least every 6 months.
Aerial devices used for bare-handing should be equipped with current leakage monitors to provide assurance that the boom is indeed non-conductive right at the site immediately prior to bonding on.
The Old Lineman

[BigClive]

I believe anyone who is hearing or seeing current leakage at the turret has a serious current leakage problem.
This can be caused by a dirty interior of the boom or linear scratching of the gel coat.
How long would this go on before a structural failure? I don't know but that is a symptom of a big problem. It shouldn't be ignored should it?
The Old Lineman

If there is visible tracking then my primary concern would be that the current leakage is probably enough to kill. That's one layer of protection gone. One rogue wire contact and he could end up slumped in the bucket.

[old lineman]

If there is visible tracking then my primary concern would be that the current leakage is probably enough to kill. That's one layer of protection gone. One rogue wire contact and he could end up slumped in the bucket.


That's right Big Clive. Tracking sounds that can be heard means a big tracking problem.
When I mentioned structural issues I mean that where there is tracking there's heat.
Inside every boom there's hydraulic oil and if the unit isn't well maintained probably some accumulation of sawdust or something else that can become flammable. The boom being constructed from resins is also flammable if heated enough.
Imagine being aerial with a live conductor in the jib when a fire breaks out.
At the least you'll have to change your shorts.
The Old Lineman

[Trampbag]

You might also want to have the hydraulic oil checked to ensure it is non-conductive. One job I worked the mechanic didn’t know the difference, for some reason, and topped up the pumps for the press heads. The resulting flashover didn’t result in an injury, luckily.

[Linemo]

At dominion we do glove out of telescoping aerial lifts with jibs but several things have to be followed
1 the lift has to be telescoped past designated lengths set by the manufacturer
2 the jib has to have 1 of two tested fiberglass jib poles inserted one is long enough to give 31" of clear fiberglass between the conductor head and the boom collar when hotsticking {no glove contact }or 12" of clear glass if in the gloving mode
3 if using the winch line and jib instead of the wire tong we use 1- 6" porcelain bell/roller combo between the winch line and conductor when gloving and 3-6" bells when hotsticking

With these criteria met we dont have any problems from 4 KV to 40KV when moving hot phases !! one more thing we always have to cover the conductors in our work zone when doing so

[graybeard]

At MEC we test booms every 4 months at 34.5 for working 12.5 for 3 mins. Then once each year outside tester comes in and does a very extensive test. This is on all the buckts and diggers. I dont ever remember hearing of anyone having problems in the company.

[BornUgly]

I have heard that there is an insulated conductor head made for the end of the jibs. I haven’t seen one I have been searching for one. Has any one seen one or have a link to where I can get one. I have used the conductor head with out a gut for years and now the company has come up with a new policy and we are to use a gut in the head. All the conductor heads we use are large enough. It sure was allot handier though to just put it in the head. I always gutted it up in front of me anyway but the gut was easier to put on after the conductor was in the conductor head.
Hastings, I did find makes a insulator for their lay out arms I am not sure if it will fit the jib head or not.
Altec I read tests their insulated jibs at the rated 100,000 per foot. The independent testing outfit we use will not test them for liability purposes. Altec gets around liability to by saying that the Jib when used for hot conductors is to be inspected, tested, cleaned and stored as a hot line tool. Which I guess I agree with but we all know that we use these things changing transformers in some tight places, they get scoffed up; just going down the gravel road to the job site the inside is going to get dirty. If a person did comply with treating the jib as a hot line tool then I see no problem using it with out a gut. I for one don't plan on storing the jib then installing it at the jobsite it is just not practical unless that is all we were to use it for.
If I could find the insulated conductor head I am sure the company would spring for one for each truck on the fleet.

Work safe

[old lineman]

I have heard that there is an insulated conductor head made for the end of the jibs. I haven’t seen one I have been searching for one. Has any one seen one or have a link to where I can get one. I have used the conductor head with out a gut for years and now the company has come up with a new policy and we are to use a gut in the head. All the conductor heads we use are large enough. It sure was allot handier though to just put it in the head. I always gutted it up in front of me anyway but the gut was easier to put on after the conductor was in the conductor head.
Hastings, I did find makes a insulator for their lay out arms I am not sure if it will fit the jib head or not.
Altec I read tests their insulated jibs at the rated 100,000 per foot. The independent testing outfit we use will not test them for liability purposes. Altec gets around liability to by saying that the Jib when used for hot conductors is to be inspected, tested, cleaned and stored as a hot line tool. Which I guess I agree with but we all know that we use these things changing transformers in some tight places, they get scoffed up; just going down the gravel road to the job site the inside is going to get dirty. If a person did comply with treating the jib as a hot line tool then I see no problem using it with out a gut. I for one don't plan on storing the jib then installing it at the jobsite it is just not practical unless that is all we were to use it for.
If I could find the insulated conductor head I am sure the company would spring for one for each truck on the fleet.

Work safe

I think your approach maybe wrong.
1. The jib cannot be considered a 'live line' tool because it is hollow. ANSI standards state that live line tools must be foam filled to prevent the ingression of moisture.
True live line tools are always foam filled. The foam is injected and when cured the porosity cells are separate from each other, thereby, preventing moisture from migrating.
I don't think there are foam filled jibs because of the pin holes for different settings. At the pin holes the gel coat will not be one piece and cannot pass testing once in service.
2. If you find an insulated head as you say then it will not have the overall length to be considered a live line tool either. I forget the minimum length the fiberglass has to be (18"?), but it has to be different lengths for increasing voltage.
I think your best approach is to use a line hose in a head that will accept it.
The Old Lineman

[lightningrod]

At our utility we are not allowed to put a live phase in a squirt boom, only a material handler or double bucket with a lower insert and fibreglass upper can be used.

[Safety 1]

Here are a few additional highlights to the incident Jamie outlined:

Aerial type: Telelect TL41M Articulated Squirt Boom
1) The Upper Insulating Boom was not extended to the minimum extension point. The boom is die-electrically tested in this position.
2) Kevlar hose and wiring protection protruded too far from the end of the boom and acted as a wick to contamination (road spray). Test results after incident: 'Die-electrical failure resulted due to considerable contamination of the boom.'
3) Jib boom was utilized as a Live Line Tool - Was not designed by the manufacture and die-electrically tested according to OSHA 1910.269 (j)(2). Test results after incident: 'In addition there where indications of high voltage tracking . . . . . that developed during a recent incident involving handling of a high voltage conductor with the material handling jib.'

All aerial devices are inspected annually according to OSHA standards, the operator is charged with the responsibility of conducting a daily operational and visual inspection before use.

Bottom line:
- Review your operator’s manual and understand the limitations of the material-handling jib. Both Telelect and Altec have letters of limitations on their proper use and care. 'Jibs which have not been maintained, tested, stored and used per the requirements of Live Line Tool standards, and the other standards listed should not be considered as a live line tool. This may include jib sections that are normally stored installed on the unit and are routinely used for material handling.'
- The goal is to ensure that everyone goes home to their family at the end of their shift in the same condition that they arrive to work in!

[jamie_climbs]

I think your approach maybe wrong.
1. The jib cannot be considered a 'live line' tool because it is hollow. ANSI standards state that live line tools must be foam filled to prevent the ingression of moisture.
True live line tools are always foam filled. The foam is injected and when cured the porosity cells are separate from each other, thereby, preventing moisture from migrating.
I don't think there are foam filled jibs because of the pin holes for different settings. At the pin holes the gel coat will not be one piece and cannot pass testing once in service.
2. If you find an insulated head as you say then it will not have the overall length to be considered a live line tool either. I forget the minimum length the fiberglass has to be (18"?), but it has to be different lengths for increasing voltage.
I think your best approach is to use a line hose in a head that will accept it.
The Old Lineman

thanks for all the responses fellas... i realy do appreciate them. one thing i'm curious about is the foam filled requirement for hot sticks. aren't the telescopic switch sticks (super sticks, extendo sticks, etc) hollow? and if they are, how do they get around that requirement?

[tramp67]

The top section is filled, the other sections are just for added reach, they really can't be considered as insulated components. Ever take one apart and clean all the crud out from inside the telescopic sections?

[SouthwestEquipment]

Your post reads to me like they "recommend" doing that because they don't want to be responsible if something bad happens while you're working like you were. Personally, I'd suggest keep doing what you know and wait until it dies down a little.

[lewy]

When we are rubber gloving anything over 15 kv we also have to do a current leakage test, We do not have to test our boom when we are only stick & jibing. Also we can not use squirt booms for rubber gloving over 15 kv.
We always use our jibs when moving conductor. On our 28 kv we have to have 2' of jib pinned out & on our 44 kv we need 4'.
I agree the jib is not considered a live line tool, that is why when we are changing insulators on the 44 kv we have to wear our rubber gloves only when touching the pole.
I have never used a link stick with my jib, alway put the conductor directly in, also when using class 4 rubber to difficult to stick in the jib & with 44kv you have no choice but to have bare conductor, that is why almost always have bare conductor in the jib.
I could not imagine what it would be like moving live conductor with a bucket without having a fully hydraulic jib.

[Boomer gone soft]

"The jib is not a hot-tool"

EVERYTHING past the arrows at the boom tip SHALL be considered CONDUCTIVE!!!!! (Regardless of the material from which it is constructed).

We don't, at Alliant Energy, even have insulated liners in our buckets for the above stated reason.

BTW, we do use the phase handler to move single phase and we use a "tree" (annually tested) attached to the jib to move multiple phases or wires at different potentials.

The important thing to remember is that EVERYTHING MUST BE KEPT AT THE SAME POTENTIAL past the arrows designating the boom tip INCLUDING THE MAD DISTANCE FROM ALL PARTS.

The best source of information regarding the use of ANY piece of equipment is NOT on this site (especially from Swampsuck), but in the OWNER'S/OPERATOR'S MANUAL!!!!;)

[lewy]

"The jib is not a hot-tool"

EVERYTHING past the arrows at the boom tip SHALL be considered CONDUCTIVE!!!!! (Regardless of the material from which it is constructed).

We don't, at Alliant Energy, even have insulated liners in our buckets for the above stated reason.

BTW, we do use the phase handler to move single phase and we use a "tree" (annually tested) attached to the jib to move multiple phases or wires at different potentials.

The important thing to remember is that EVERYTHING MUST BE KEPT AT THE SAME POTENTIAL past the arrows designating the boom tip INCLUDING THE MAD DISTANCE FROM ALL PARTS.

The best source of information regarding the use of ANY piece of equipment is NOT on this site (especially from Swampsuck), but in the OWNER'S/OPERATOR'S MANUAL!!!!;)

Interesting regarding the liners, in our province we have to use them even on barehand.

[old lineman]

Interesting regarding the liners, in our province we have to use them even on barehand.

That's because the fiberglass buckets are not considered non-conductive for many reasons.
1. They develop cracks from flexing and striking objects, etc.
2. They have porosity in the fiberglass that holds moisture.
3. They are scratched from landing on pavement, brushing against objects.

Liners are dielectrically tested about 3/4 full of water. ground on the outside and an energized probe on the inside. This test is for penetration.
The test standard is set by IEEE as far as I know.
The Old Lineman

[LINCRW]

I think your approach maybe wrong.
1. The jib cannot be considered a 'live line' tool because it is hollow. ANSI standards state that live line tools must be foam filled to prevent the ingression of moisture.
True live line tools are always foam filled. The foam is injected and when cured the porosity cells are separate from each other, thereby, preventing moisture from migrating.
I don't think there are foam filled jibs because of the pin holes for different settings. At the pin holes the gel coat will not be one piece and cannot pass testing once in service.
2. If you find an insulated head as you say then it will not have the overall length to be considered a live line tool either. I forget the minimum length the fiberglass has to be (18"?), but it has to be different lengths for increasing voltage.
I think your best approach is to use a line hose in a head that will accept it.
The Old Lineman


I will respectfully disagree that live line tools are all foam filled. Shotgun sticks aren't and all telescopic sticks aren't. A live line tool is any tool designed to be used on voltage; some utilities draw the line at only tested items while others accept all tools as long as they are rated. Yes, I've taken them apart and didn't see foam filled in them.

[freshjive]

we use a link stick or a pig-tail... whatever everybody calls em..although we rubber glove 13.8 we still use it (jib and link stick) to move most conductors....we also work 34.5 but we hot stick it. less effort and alot safer to do it with a jib and a fiberglass insert...least thats how we do it?

[lewy]

Never used a link stick with my jib. I like having the ability to be able to pick up a phase below the bucket & then rotate it up & behind me.

[joe b]

talking to the test guy today and asked him some questions!!!!!!

one that i asked because i was curious was does he have a lot of failures on bigger buckets u know like 52' and up and he said most of the failures he has seen is on the bigger ones was wear and tear and he dosen'nt hardly see them at all that is materical handler jibs themselves but he did also tell me this is that altec jibs are insulated were the terex are not but most of the bigger bucket jibs especially newer ones are a lot thicker than the older ones is there any truth to that just curious what yall guys know on this and what to look out for!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i work for a utility now and all of our booms are out of the weather but not out of moisture. i know when i tramped are booms were exposed to the enviroment of course but does this seem correct in the above about the altec jibs vs terex about the insulated parts!!!!!!

i have always assumed them to failure when the head was energized!!!!!!!!

as of now our materical handlers are not tested as far as the jib, but i am going to the safety man to let him take care of this as far as our safety program goes there is goods and not so goods i agree with!!!!!!

but our utility does go above and beyond to keep us safe we mostly work
everything hot and of course all of our 44kv is dead work and we do alot of it!!!!!!!

"""""hint to the guys who do use hi ranger service trucks not the squirts but the small over centers buckets with jibs he did say that they are 90% failures on the jibs new or used and that terex does have a better one for $1000.00 more but its not a standard one!!!!!!!! why don't they just make the one that will pass a standard to stay away from law suits???????

sorry for the 5 page book i wrote just curious!!!!!!!

[Boomer gone soft]

Never used a link stick with my jib. I like having the ability to be able to pick up a phase below the bucket & then rotate it up & behind me.

I use a link stick to keep the phase isolated from the boom tip if I will also be handling a different potential (like a pole). Because the jib is considered part of the boom tip, everything on the boom tip MUST be the same potential.

[lewy]

I use a link stick to keep the phase isolated from the boom tip if I will also be handling a different potential (like a pole). Because the jib is considered part of the boom tip, everything on the boom tip MUST be the same potential.

Interesting on different work methods, we are taught to use our jibs for handling live conductor, it is a standard work procedure right across our province.
I have seen some guys with Altecs use a link stick, but it was because they could not get there jib on the phase while rubber gloving.
Me I never use a link stick with my jib, but I always make sure I have enough pined out for the voltage I am working on like I said earlier 2' for 28 kv & 4' for 44kv our highest voltage. That is the minimum when unclamping, when actually touching the pole it would likely be 5' for 28kv & 7' for44kv.
It is not uncommon for me to grab a phase below the bucket move it up & behind me if I am changing insulators, that is one of the problems I have with a link stick I would not be able to move the phase up & behind me.
When we stick & jib the 44kv we only have to wear our rubber gloves when we are touching the pole to change insulators.

[Boomer gone soft]

Lewy,

Just to be clear, I don't always us the link. If I can keep everything at the boom tip the same potential (only handle the insulators or just moving it up and out for the digger to set a pole, etc.), I just use the phase handler on the jib.

[lewy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kEiDJprhNU&feature=related
If they wanted to they could bring that phase all the way behind them if they were just doing an insulator change as compared to going to a higher pole. We would have to wear rubber gloves though when actually touching the pole to change an insulator. You could not do this with an Altec

[rob8210]

Personally, I do not think that it is a very good idea to hold a phase in a jib to change an insulator. I do remember a fella losing both his arms while holding a phase and changing out insulators and side mount brackets. I have found that in most cases an auxhilary arm or even a spare insulator on a side bracket mounted below your work area will get the job done. Besides if you have to do same height pole changes its the only practical way. Why hold onto a phase while doing another task? If you have to, then I will use a link stick on the end of my winch line with the jib well extended and rotated up, it works amazing well.

[lewy]

It is a normal operating procedure in Ontario & we have had no issues with it. If you do not have enough jib out or if you are not having your jib tested & you are not wearing rubber gloves, that is when you could get into trouble.
This is also the way we were taught at line school in Orangeville.
I know in the past I had changed out insulators on the 44kv with out rubber gloves with no problem, but at the time I did not realize I was breaking a rule.

[Fiberglass Cowboy]

Did any of you happen to catch the original date of this post? May 2006, by a "guest"; not a member. It is now 2011. I seriously doubt that the "guest" that originally started this thread is still waiting for a reply. Not even sure why someone (SouthwestEquipment) responded to it last month in December 2010, more than 4 1/2 YEARS after the guy posted his question/incident. :confused:

[Highplains Drifter]

Did any of you happen to catch the original date of this post? May 2006, by a "guest"; not a member. It is now 2011. I seriously doubt that the "guest" that originally started this thread is still waiting for a reply. Not even sure why someone (SouthwestEquipment) responded to it last month in December 2010, more than 4 1/2 YEARS after the guy posted his question/incident. :confused:


You are right and SouthwestEquiptment only has four posts and three of them are about trucks...looks like someone is trying to rent you some equiptment....through this forum.