Construction-or-City Light?

[Ducatist]

If you could do it again, would you go for a lineman job with a city light co-or with an IBEW lineman contsruction outfit?

What are +'s/-s of each?



Much appreciated.

Ducatist

[IBEW#1]

Are stupid? :confused: Listen you shiny dumbfuck, Ive been in the trade for about 20 years now, thats more years than your dumb rich ass can count.

Dont you ever insult IBEW, by asking which is better. IBEW is the best, we are it. Only little bitches like u work for the nice warm city, real men are out there in danger putting new poles up, in the rain/cold far away from home. Better get your ass straight, or one of us foreman will.....

IBEW for ever.

[Trampbag]

Quoted from another thread.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome bro. Im an app with Tacoma City Light. See u around the boards, and stay in one piece.

Ducatist

-------------------------------------------------------------


And now you want to know the pros and cons of the IBEW? You've been listening to some mealy mouthed management toady. I heard this shit about 25 years ago, just before the company took the union apart and we lost beaucoup benefits.

F**k You, Kid. Just learn your job and stay alive, Don’t kill a good man while you have your mind on stupid shit that has nothing to do with you learning to do you job properly. There will be plenty of time after you top out to suck someone’s A** for a management position.
.

[Ryan]

The only problem with the IBEW is Dumbasses like this guy, they can't get rid of. Luckily he's not really the spokesman for the IBEW or I know what my answer would be. Just remember no matter where you go there's gonna be assholes like this guy, It's almost guarenteed. Just smile and stay away from'em. My guess is he's spent a lifetime at the bar, shit..he probably even wrote that drunk. :rolleyes:

[Ducatist]

F**k You, Kid. Just learn your job and stay alive, Don’t kill a good man while you have your mind on stupid shit that has nothing to do with you learning to do you job properly. There will be plenty of time after you top out to suck someone’s A** for a management position.


U talking to me. Whats wrong with asking a quistion? Just want to know what you pros think about the whole thing. Thats all. No harm.


Ducati

[IBEW#1]

Ducati boy go home, and cry to your mommy. Why do you even think about this shit, you dumb fuck. Without IBEW your city ass, wouldnt even know the difference between a hammer, and a nail. We rule the trade, and you rich Mercedes boys are what makes us real men despise your cheap white asses.

IBEW forever.

[Ducatist]

You are a funny dude. :p

[graybeard]

Ducatist
Don't let this retard turn you away from the ibew he's one of the few aholes and you have them no matter where you go even at the munies. Me I'ld tell ya to go union because safty,good work practices and tools all came about because of the IBEW. The IBEW was started because so many lineman where dieing on the job. So from my point of view all lineman owe the IBEW for what they have done for them. All the guys I know will welcome anybody that works hard,works safe and is a good guy.
Welcome to the trade its a job you can be proud of.

[Trampbag]

Ducati,

Unless I grossly misunderstood you are into a them and us situation. Them, utility; us, construction or vice versa. There is no them or us, just lineman. A good hand can, and will, work either utility or construction as the situation dictates. Part of the problem with this trade is the division between the tradesmen just because each feels the other is taking each others work.

The question isn’t innocent. Someone is blowing smoke up your ass.

There is no +’s/-‘s. There is just the job.

[h0tgl0v3r]

Well said Tramp!

[659Lineman]

Although I currently work for a utility, I vote for Outside construction IBEW training. Theres no seniority, so the Foreman wants to be a Foreman, not just get a pay raise cause he's next in line. The Linemen are good Linemen, otherwise they get turned around with 2 hours pay. Not some good ol boy that everyone liked as a meter reader and got carried through his apprenticeship and topped out because the guy's didn't want to see him lose his job. And the biggest reason, you work with more different people. See more tricks of the trade. See more types of material and equipment. You wont be a one county boomer.
I do realize that there will alwas be exceptions to the rule. I've worked with bad Linemen in Construction and GREAT Linemen at Utilitys. This is just my overall vibe of the question asked.
As for the guy above, he does not represent the IBEW very well. Enough said about that.

[659Lineman]

Let me add that if you don't like to travel, the utility is a better place. Also, you'll get better training on troubleshooting, running underground tools, like locators. And paid days off. You have to weigh out both options and decide for yourself.

[Ducatist]

Thanks for the words.

I start the city of tacoma lineman apprentice job on June 19th. Next week I got 1 week of osha training. So Im very excited. Eager to learn.

Also 1 more quistion, as far as lifetime benefits go, which one offers more. In case I start a family in the next 10 years?

Ducatist.

[659Lineman]

Benefits? I could tell you the plus's of each side, but the way things are going, I would be lying to you. In this day and age, benefits are changing almost daily. And usually not for the better.

[tramp67]

:confused: Tough Question! Many answers! All right and all wrong! It all depends on where you are working. The IBEW has both defined benefit pensions and defined contribution pensions. Defined benefit means you will get x number of dollars a month when you retire for each year you worked, for the rest of your life, be it one year or seventy years. Defined contribution is like a savings account for you, whatever is in there is what you have - you can take it out a little at a time or all at once. Once it's gone, it's gone. How much goes into it? Working for a contractor, the defined contribution amount varies by each Local's agreement. Some go up to the federal max amount, ie. 25% of your gross wages, all paid by the contractor, not you. Utilities typically contribute a much smaller amount to their various pensions, 401k plans, etc.
Job security, a big benefit for some people. If someone wants to get rid of you bad enough, it's probably gonna happen. Utilities are usually pretty stable employment until you throw in the politics. Working for contractors, well, the Union hall is just down the road, as is the next job. Usually no vacation or paid holidays working for contractors. The hourly rate is usually higher working for a contractor to offset the fringe benefits that utilities have. But, you usually end up having to travel if you are working for contractors. Is that a bad thing? Depends on the individual. I enjoy tramping, other guys want to be home every night.
Nonunion contractors? That's a whole different ball of wax. If you piss off the wrong person, down the road you go, and you can't just go to the Hall and sign the books to get on with another contractor. Good luck on that route.
To get the best answer to your question, you need to decide what's most important to you: job stability, being home every night, flexibility, paid holidays and vacation or being able to take off as much or little time as you want, what you want for retirement such as a "guaranteed" amount of monthly income or a nest egg that you have some control over, the list goes on.

[dirtdobber]

Ive been out for a while but I would like to make a comment to ibew #1. you are the reason people turn away from unions they use to be there for you when you needed them. but with indivicuals like you why would someone fight for you when it seems like the WORLD owes your weak little hinny something. I think you need to wake up and check real life out or just baker act yourself. :p

[graybeard]

I think in this day and age when it comes to retirement you need to start looking out for yourselves. Start putting something in IRAs or something because I don't think you can start too soon. Even if find a job at a place with good benies it will never hurt.

[riverhog14]

You have any prior experience or did you just apply and get the job?

[CenterPointEX]

There are City Light Cos that are also Union... Working for a utility does not exclude you from being union.

As for benifits there are no garontees anywhere anymore... I had it all worked out I was gonna retire at fifty five from CenterPoint with a million dollars in the bank... Then came deregulation, loss of my job with the Utility after twenty years, Deregulation combined with Enron and 911 turned my 401 savings to mush... Now I'm trampin and doing better in the savings dept. that I even though about at CenterPoint... But my working days are short cause I'm gettin old... I'll never get back to where I was... Will probably work myself into an early grave before I get to enjoy any of it now... But "Se La Vee"... my hope is not in this world anyhow... I long to move on to that which awaits me on the other side of my last breath...

[Ducatist]

I applied, tested a number of times, did well. And got accepted. Start on June 19th of this year.

Are you trying to get on too? With a city?

Ducatist

[BigClive]

I think if "benefits" in America are going the same way as in the UK then anyone under the age of about fifty can kiss goodbye to anything resembling retirement.

I'm assuming that I'll be working until the day I die and I'm choosing to make sure I get a bit more time to myself during my life instead of hoping I might get some at the end.

To put that into context... Take more time off and go fishin' :)

[Trampbag]

What CenterPointEX just said is exactly why I gave the comment earlier. Just concentrate on the learning. You haven’t even started yet and someone put a question in your mouth that was ridiculous and will take your concentration away from where it should be.

Presumably you are in your early twenties and so your working life is around 40 years. Where ever you think you’re going to be in that time it probably won’t happen. Just take the opportunity to learn your job, forget the politics, and you may make it to the rocking chair.

It doesn’t matter if you start with a utility or a contractor and end up with one or the other. You right now have no experience, zippo, nada. Don’t try to run before you have even started to crawl.

As I said – Forget the politics, learn your job.

Another question? Perhaps trade related.

[Ducatist]

Its not politics. Its just a quistion, we all have quistions. Some just ask them. No one ever blew any smoke up my chimney, etc.

But anyway thanks for all of the replies.


Ducatist

[riverhog14]

Yeah I'm trying... Progress Energy in central florida. Looks like Im going to work in the plant first and then apply within the company. Isn't Tacoma that city beside that big ass volcano?

[Ducatist]

Yes it is by the volcano, Mt Rainier. Good Luck with the process, I think that its worth it. Everyone tells me it is. This time the city hired only 8 guys out of like 250, and most of us had zero electrical experience. Only in General construction. Much luck to you.


Ducatist

[Trampbag]

Its not politics. Its just a quistion, we all have quistions. Some just ask them. No one ever blew any smoke up my chimney, etc.

But anyway thanks for all of the replies.


Ducatist


Yup, spoken from all your experience. Kid, you got a lot to learn, and you're starting in exactly the wrong place, with your tongue. You haven’t even started yet but your a legend in your own mind.

‘Course you won’t listen to me ‘cause your too busy listening to your own voice.

Glad I won't run into you. You're going to be just an absolute joy to have around a crew. Fortunately there isn’t a hell of a lot of people with your attitude out there, at least trying to get into the trade.

For any other apprentice or future apprentice, most all I have worked with are diligent hardworking guys who just want to learn the trade, listen well and haven’t fallen into the trap this bozo has.

[bobb]

Gees someone asks a simple question and he gets stupid dum attitude replies!

[Trampbag]

There is a forum on this site for this wanna be. Apprentice and Wanna Be’s.

This Bozo, Ducatist, came onto Linework Forum, and asked a stupid question wondering about if contractors or utility was a better place to work, as if he had lots of experience (he put nothing in his profile to indicate who he was, or whether he was a trouble maker like a number on this site). Then he said he was an apprentice with Tacoma City, like he had some kind of experience. Then he said he hadn’t started yet, but seemed to have some kind of opinion that might possibly be valid when speaking with a 35 plus year veteran.

This Bozo continues to “high five” and welcome people onto this site, as if he has some importance in the trade.

Bozo has yet to ask any kind of technical question, yet continues to spout off on the “Linework Form”.

If you notice Bozo has posted on Apprentice and Wanna Be’s forum, I haven’t made any comment there. As far as I’m concerned that is the forum where Bozo should remain for a while, until he gets enough experience to be able to have some valid input to the “Linework Forum”. Bozo, right now, couldn’t identify the tools I carry in my tramp bag, let alone carry them.

So, Bobb, Bozo didn’t ask a simple question. He’s a poser.

Bobb, Bozo didn’t get “stupid dum attitude replies”, he got exactly what any teenager with attitude is going to get when he addresses a veteran of the trade in an impolite manner, and you, as a time served journeyman should appreciate it. I dare say, if you had shown the kind of attitude Bozo expressed on “Linework Forum” some time served journeyman would have slapped you on the side of the head with a spanner, and you know it. Respect is earned.

Bozo is in for some real hard lessons and may not have the where with all to cut it as a lineman because of his self important attitude. Linework is a trade you don’t learn from a book or computer, but learn from real working and experienced hands. Any newbie more interested in flapping his gums than actually listening to what a journeyman has to pass on is a dangerous component I will not tolerate on any of my jobs. I have run off apprentices and tradesmen, as well, for not paying attention during a tailboard or deviating from it during the job because of his/her lack of focus. I will continue to do so because I have had enough of the carnage and misery caused by “attitude” like Bozo is expressing.

[Ducatist]

TrampBag are u sure that youre not IBEW#1, posting as a different user.

When did I offend anybody or show any "ATTITUDE" towards you, and when did I say that I speak from experience.

If you can answer those quistions with some examples to back youre self up, than please, try to do so. If not, dont respond to my "stupid quistions" as you put it.

Moderator please feel free to remove this thread, if you wish to.

Ducatist

[Trampbag]

Moderator please feel free to remove this thread, if you wish to.

Ducatist

Boo Hoo!

:(

Yup, you'll be a real joy to have on a line crew.

[Outlaw Lineman]

Ducatist... union is the way to go. As far as contractor or city that's up to you. I work for a utility and really like it. We only travel in our service territory unless it is for Mutual Aid. I have friends who work for contractors and they travel all over, but that's what they like. Money on the contractor side is sometimes better than the utilities but you don't have the job security. At the utilities you get paid sick leave, vacation and holidays. Most contractors get paid when they work. Don't get worked up to bad, we all have our opinions.

[Ducatist]

Trampbag, obviously you cant answer my quistions, less provide any facts. You get a kick out of putting people down.



When did I offend anybody or show any "ATTITUDE" towards you, and when did I say that I speak from experience.

If you can answer those quistions with some examples to back youre self up, than please, try to do so. If not, dont respond to my "stupid quistions" as you put it.

Here is your last chance, to respond. Please just try.

Ducatist

[Sno10]

Gees someone asks a simple question and he gets stupid dum attitude replies!

Couldn't agree more. Rather funny watching this big ole wizzing match. But hey this is linework and there is alot of dumb attitude replies. There are plenty of "forum lineman" on here. Alot of "Gods gift to linework", "Oh how great I ams." They for surely stand out.

To the original question of which is better. Get through your apprenticeship first there Ducatist. Heck it is going to be paid for I am sure. If construction intrigues you have a go at it when you are done with your apprenticeship. No biggie you will have a ticket that can get you anywhere if you complete your apprenticeship.

You have alot of questions I am sure such as this thread. They will be answered in time. Be tactful on your questions. Think about them first. Heck you are probably have a few old constructions hands to work with that will be glad to fill you in on what its like. Just be tactful about it.

I think I would have phrased your question on maybe "Is there a difference in the apprenticeships such as IBEW utility or IBEW construction?" Maybe throw in such things as "I have heard great things about each" And then come with something like for "those that have gone through one or the other what were your likes or dislikes?" Then with time when you have stroked enough people off and have asked enough stupid question that makes somebody feel good like they have helped you make a positive step in your apprenticeship you could move up to asking things that you really want to know like "Does construction have decent retirement, or is it hard on family life and what is traveling all the time like?" Or "What are the retirement like at a typical utility and how is the work versus construction."

Not which is "better" Utility or construction. That is almost as bad and for surely will create a pissing match just as bad as Union vs. Non-Union.

Just steer them gradually in the direction that you want to go and to get your results and question answered.

But first things first concentrate on your apprenticeship (as they take alot of work and alot of guts). Also maybe a good question to ask yourself is how you will respond to your first day at work when a journeyman from tacoma ask which one of the newbies was posting on the Lineman Boards on the Internet if any read this forum. If any have read this you might get a little crap because of it. Might be your first gut check in linework and have to NUT up.

[bobb]

Case proven I think!

Shoudn't be in this forum as he doesn't have the experience or importance in the trade? Come on you really can't think stuff like that!?

What amazes me is some people talk about line work likes it some amazing thing like I don't no lets say a jedi master! I'm not knocking the trade as I enjoy my work and I'm proud of the job I do but at the end of the day we're not going to war, we're not saving we're giving people electric. I don't care if someones been doing it 1 day or 30 years I'm not going to tell them not to ask questions as they've no right too!

Get of your high horse mate! Rather work with Ducatist any day then an ignorant fool!

[Trampbag]

Here is your last chance, to respond. Please just try.

Ducatist


;)

Or else what???!! BOZO


Bobb, you’re welcome to work with this brat, or rather try to. Lots of luck. I feel for the linehands at Tacoma City. Brothers, have you got some kind of burden coming your way. Bozo will be running to management every time his ego is bruised, and his ego is like a ripe banana – easily bruised.

If you read anything I said earlier you would have realised the vast majority of people coming into this trade are conscientious assets to this trade. I enjoy passing on what I have learned as those I worked with passed it to me.

Australia I have no knowledge about. I haven’t been there yet. I have lived and worked in the UK though. The linework done in Britain cannot compare in any way to that done in North America. It is very different.

Almost all your buildings in the UK are fed underground, by cable, both distribution and secondary voltages. In the USA and Canada the vast majority of buildings are fed overhead from wood structures, even in the most urban locations.

Typically in the UK you have 12Kv used in a delta configuration as distribution voltage stepped down to 3 phase 4 wire 415/240v and there will be the odd 3.3Kv around for specialized applications. Reconductoring jobs, hot, are few and far between because of the lack of O/H systems. The sub-transmission substation ties are usually 33Kv.

In the USA and Canada our distribution voltages range from 2400 to 33.4Kv, generally but I am still running into voltages I am unfamiliar with, in both Delta and Wye configurations and the secondary voltages are so many and varied that you really need your head about you when approaching any system. It is not uncommon to have six different voltages on a single pole. I also find the O/H systems here archaic and ugly (cheap and nasty) compared with the U/G systems of Europe. What little I saw of the German and Swiss system was light years ahead of most others. I’m not saying linemen elsewhere in the world have it easy, but NA definitely is the king of O/H wood pole construction. (The USA has more than 300,000,000 people almost all fed O/H). This is not a pissing match for who has the worst working conditions, either.

The point being is that to work in the North American system, especially as a tramp, requires reliance on experienced linemen familiar with local conditions. It requires paying total attention to those with experience, whether one has 1 day or 30 years, and the ability to not piss off those who are trying to give you that information.

BOZO has shown he has no ability to listen, even when told not to have too thin a skin by others, cannot take any kind of criticism (constructive or otherwise), whines and cries (can you imagine BOZO out on one of the Pacific N/W winter storms? Or even just on the 20th rain day in a row?) and resorts to hollow threats (tantrums?) when he disagrees with someone. Just the sort of attitude that will galvanise a whole shop against him in short order.

Unfortunately BOZO will probably make it through because of his ability to suck up. Lord help us. I hope I’m wrong.

[CenterPointEX]

They call Utility Hands "Country Club Lineman"... Having done both I concur... Going outside construction you will get a more diverse education... Utilities tend to pigionhole their hands... Seeing the country with your trampbag is a great experience... You will be probably will be a rounder lineman doing the apprenticeship outside... But if a utility will get your ticket, go for it... Vacation, sick time etc. are nice to have... But not being tethered to a company ain't so bad neither... Outside... when you need a vacation... Drag! Don't like the gig you are doing, go back to the hall... Feel like a change of venue, bon voyage... Outside construction is always hard money... Sometimes at the Utility you kick back and deal the cards while you are watching it rain...
A contractor whig once told me when I was fresh out of the Utility... "Son, this ain't the Light Company. At the Light Company, when the meters were spinning, the LIght Company was making money... Here, when you are spinning the Contractor is making money..." Nuff said.

[Ducatist]

"Son, this ain't the Light Company. At the Light Company, when the meters were spinning, the LIght Company was making money... Here, when you are spinning the Contractor is making money

Thats exactly what I was told when I started asking more quistions about the trade from the guys at our local hall, before I applied for the City Light Com'. And its what promted me to ask you guys also about the matter, one thing is for sure that we all have different opinions on the matter.

Ducatist

[Trampbag]

You still think you have an opinion on Linework Forum? What the hell can it possibly be based on?

[dog38]

I could get on my soap box about the benefits of IBEW! but I want. All I have to say is if you are a union member I recommend getting an A ticket when you top out. If never work outside construction you will get a little bit extra retirement when you retire for just a few dollars more a month. I think that it ten bucks if you work 30 years you would get $300.00 a month do the math it pays for it,s self pretty damn quick.

[CenterPointEX]

I concur on the "A" Ticket, whether or not you work for a Utility.