A Primary URD Question

[saftgeek]

Hello to all,

I've been a reader for quite awhile but I've never had anything I felt was worthy of posting, till recently. I am currently the Safety Coordinator for a Cooperative, and we are reviewing our Safety Manual. We are working with our linemen/foremen/safety committee to try to make this manual more "senseable."

A little background as to why we are doing this: Work Comp laws in our state have changed a great deal. One of the changes involve when an employee is injured, and if the injury occured while violating a safety rule(s). If a rule(s) was violated then the employee's benifit (medical cost, settlement) will be reduced by a min. of 25% up to 50%. If this were to happen it could potentially ruin someone, financially as well as physically. This worries me to no end.

It's hard for me to comprehend all the rules that apply to linework, OSHA, NESC, DOT, and on and on... and I'm the "go-to-guy." Now, enter the fact that once a crew leaves the premises, the crew leader becomes "the employer" in all the regs. This leaves the weight of the world on the crew leader's shoulders.

If/when we have an accident I don't want someone to tell me they would have complied if he would have known the rule or that our linemen were never able to comply, and nothing was ever done. If we can identify the rules that are broken then we can either work on the rule, or the process to make sure everyone is covered.

Question time: Assuming we are 7200 volts, how do you install a primary elbow on a dead conductor, in a live URD cabinet? I know we could kill it, but our linemen even agree that this cannot happen all the time. We have some very large radial feeds in some areas. Keep in mind that you must comply with the rules, Class 2 gloves and sleeves must be worn, we are lock-to-lock on these.

So far, I haven't had one person tell me it can be done. I cannot imagine trying to remove the semicon or applying silicone w/ gloves on... I'm looking to you for some help.

If this can't be done then we will change policy to insure compliance. Any advice on the tools that may be available, or if you have a process that will comply, please post or PM me.

Thanks for your time...

One more thing; I'm trying to help my guys so don't go off on me about not being a lineman or being a sell-out, save that for later and help me help them.

[thrasher]

My reply is in two parts.
Part 1 it is possible to make up an elbow and apply the grease while wearing gloves it just takes three times as long and twice as much cussing the semi-con. Also takes a good pair of needlenose pliers to get the semi-con peeled after scoring and a tool (like a tonque depressor) to spread the silicon.
Part 2 If the entire face of the transformer primary and secondary can be covered securely with blankets we will allow the lineman to remove the gloves, with an observer, just long enough to do the nit-picking steps. Then the gloves go back on before the blankets are touched. This is the same idea as allowing a bucket truck to swing out of the work zone remove gloves to dump the sweat (or light a smoke) and then putting them back on before re-entering the work zone.
The majority of the time our guys use option 1, because it's safer and securing blankets on a transformer face is a pain when trying to cover everything. Now I haven't stated it but this assumes the far end of the cable being worked on is GROUNDED.

[Linemo]

we do this almost daily as thrasher stated
1- In my gloves and sleeves cover the primarys and secondary install a feed thru in the transformer hook up bleed wires duct cable in transformer and remove gloves and sleeves (the other end of your cable must be grounded if its in another transformer or up a pole )now go to work terminating till its complete and at this time put gloves and sleeves back on park cable in the feed thru with 6' shotgun stick test for voltage tag and ground!I have done this myself hundreds of times and on 19920 or 7620 primary we even use the same proceedure on livefront except all primary compartment cover is installed with hotsticks !!!!

[saftgeek]

Thanks for taking the time to reply...

I was very pleased to read your replies. I know that old saying about "more than one way to skin a cat" applies to a lot more than pets... I will share your information with the others at our next Safety Comm meeting. I also appreciate your personal comments, although I must admit, a lot of the guys I work with don't share your opinion. Some of the guys think the rules are fine, and all this attention is a way of stirring the pot. Others get it and appreciate it, just not in front of anyone.

I was told when I started this job that it would be lonely at times and that it would never be done. I thought I understood, but I was wrong. If we get a handle on one thing, BAM, new regs and more restrictions some place else... It's hard to get some of the guys to understand that I don't come up with this stuff, there are all kinds of people who do that for us. It's also a challenge to try to educate the management on all of the requirements so that we are all on the same page.

One more thing and then I'll get off my box. My own personal goal is to be a consultant to everyone, not just management. If the line crew needs to understand something, all they need to do is ask. They may not like the answer but at least they will know that the reg is for real, not just some company ax-to-grind. I'm not going to be a safety cop. I do not want to hide in the bushes looking for guys without a hard-hat. If a foreman allows unsafe behavior on his job, so be it, but when the world comes crashing down, don't pretend like you didn't know... We all sit in the same safety meetings and we are all adults, so make a choice and stand by it, right or wrong.

[Roger Larkin]

We recently had an accident in state where an employee was terminating an elbow in a "dead" transformer. He was wearing leather gloves or bare handed and was installing the connector probe into the elbow. Meanwhile, a crew down line was plugging in an elbow on a live piece of equipment to pick up a new tap. Sadly, the cables were improperly marked and they enrgized the elbow the other employee was installing the probe into. We are not sure how or why, but he was not hurt. He went to the burn center for a follow up and is completely unharmed. The only thing I can figure is he must have had his fingers on the white part of the probe and did not make a good path to ground. So, although it is a pain, if the cable isn't grounded, you should be wearing your rubbers when terminating URD cables.

[PK270]

I have grown up with the idea of do not ground the other end of the cable and I understand why. The company I currently work for requires the other end grounded. They also require live fronts to be deenergized, not necessary but it is nice. However you decide to work it make sure energized parts are covered and only one end of the cable at a time is worked - cuts down on screw ups.

As far as lineman go, keep up with the attitude you got. Good attitude and thick skin are requirements. We are going to give you hell and your job will hardly be appreciated (in public anyway).

[Husker apprentice]

I have grown up with the idea of do not ground the other end of the cable and I understand why. The company I currently work for requires the other end grounded. They also require live fronts to be deenergized, not necessary but it is nice. However you decide to work it make sure energized parts are covered and only one end of the cable at a time is worked - cuts down on screw ups.

As far as lineman go, keep up with the attitude you got. Good attitude and thick skin are requirements. We are going to give you hell and your job will hardly be appreciated (in public anyway).


Our company requires that other end of cable will be grounded, because of capacitance

[Bull Dog]

Kill the transformer or live front ground the cable. Only safe way to do it.
Yes ther are other ways But i said only safe way. If it aint grounded it aint dead.

[loadbreak55]

The one rule that I have followed for 36+ years is;IF IT AIN'T GROUNDED,IT AIN'T DEAD PERIOD!That rule has kept me and the guy's who have worked with me alive and in one piece and that rule goes double for underground!!!We not only ground "both ends" before proceeding with the task at hand,but we also tag the other end "just in case" someone else comes along.As for live front tubs or cabinets?Are there still companies out there using these death traps?WHY???? :confused:

[playtime]

Had an accident a few years back where an apprentice was installing an elbow on a new piece of cable. had a ground on other end in an energized three phase vault. In this vault a module blew shorting to the vault. The apprentice recieved burns on hands that were touching the neutrals. The neutrals were not connected to the ground circle in the equipment he was elbowing. Upon review of this accident it was concluded that the fault current followed the neutral back to where the work was being done. There were the required 4 grounding pits per mile on this cable. The safety recommendation that came out of this was to isolate the concentric neutrals on both ends of the cable. I can see where they come up with this but it is a pain.

[Trampbag]

SDG&E has murderous little things called live front terminators and a procedure with a “Grey Box” where the system is switched by live line methods. The “Grey Box” is a 12kV oil switch with insulated cables line and load side with little clamps on the end, one for the bus and one for the paddle on 1000MCM XLP. All work is done using sticks and let me tell you there isn’t a lot of room for error phase to phase or phase to ground! That’s the worst I’ve seen so far.

I’m surprised as I travel about just how many utilities have live fronts, both switches and transformers, in their system. Several times I have run into unaltered OH transformers in steel houses. The transformers are fed by unprotected, other than the steel enclosure, OH cutouts. In a place like Ontario, Canada or up state NY where there is lots of salt used in the winter there is lots of rust holes in UG equipment.

There is still a lot of shit out there.

[PK270]

I agree with the cable being grounded at all times although in the early years the thinking was to leave the other end ungrounded.

Loadbreak, not only do they use livefronts across the country but I have been in many areas where they change the live fronts out with the same. They are the biggest death traps we have in this business. but they still install them.

[thrasher]

While I agree live fronts are an unneeded safety hazard the fact of the matter is many utilities have so many in place they would be hard pressed to do a mass change-out. However a properly built and maintained live-front is still workable with the right rules. Where I used to work we had several hundred of them and we had a local fiberglass manufacturer make a second barrier over the live primary, but left the secondary cabinent with just the outside barrier. This meant if you were working secondary the primary was covered and even if you had to work primary you were opening and closing a piece of fiberglass over it not steel or aluminum.
However even there Transclosures were no longer tolerated. For those who have never run across this idiocy you set three pole type transformers on a concrete pad. Set a steel cabinent with six removeable panels over them then run underground primary to the enclosure. Then hang post insulators down from the top on the inside and string bare primary across them. This leaves bare primary about 10 inches inside of each removeable panel. To top it off if you open the panel the wrong way it will turn diagonal and fall inside. To say this will get your attention is an understatement. We changed out all transclosures there during the 80's. Which was twenty years later than it should have been, but at least it was done.

[loadbreak55]

;) We went thru our system many years ago and installed fiberglass barrier boards on all live front transformers,that couldn't be changed out.Unfortunately we still have a few "transclosures" around.But they are "very" few and we are getting rid of them as we come across them.I totally understand utilities not wanting to go thru and change out all of these live fronts ,do to the cost of such an undertakeing,but there is absolutely no reason they can't at least install barrier boards!Of course I work for an REA,so we have no choice but to make sure there are at least "3" barriers to keep the general public out of harms way,ie;a locking device.a pentabolt,and a deadfront once the enclosure is opened.We get audited at least once a year by NRECA,and the inspector can,at anytime,request to do a random field check.Not to say they do,but we are aware of the possibility,so we try to maintain our UG facilities. :rolleyes:

[saftgeek]

I appreciate all the comments. I am monitoring this post from a distance. It is really interesting to hear comments about the equipment that we also have on our system.
We have so many new guys that I suggested we compile photos and descriptions of all the tricky locations. It takes years for a guy to actually visit all of these locations, so we went for them and took pictures. The lineman that actually worked on the installation gave some input on the why and hows of that particular spot. All the guys were encouraged to ask questions. I will try to attach pictures of three locations we thought needed some discussion.
Enjoy the pics... thanks for helping me out.

[thrasher]

I've said it before and will say it again, I HATE TRANSCLOSURES. If you have any influence get them changed out and removed. Second all the live-front transformers I have every worked on had either Mcgraw-Edison NX sand fuses or S&C sand fuses installed. So you could sectionialize the line and kill the transformer with a finger stick. The picture you attached looks like the cable terminator is bolted direct to the bushing and no way to open the cable. Is that correct? or is there a switch built into the device? Unless that trans is a direct feed from a dedicated dip pole you have a potential operations problems.

[Trampbag]

S&C generally builds switches ahead of the device. You don’t have to pull the fuses under load. I have, though, run into S&C U/G switch gear where a load buster needs to be inserted in and connected to opening the circuit, no switch. I had one instance where the post broke off and I could not hold it any longer. I had to throw the whole mess into the apparatus after telling my partner, “RUN!!!!!”.

What fun!

[Bull Dog]

Get rid of them as fast as you can.

[dirtdobber]

if the urd cable is in conduit it is possible to terminate your ripple b-4 you complete your pull.this way all you need do is bag it pull it in then bolt it in.but it goes without saying use all the cover and care you can. changed out many live fronts why is the coop your working for not replacing them they do make an extended elbow that works well to change to a dead front.

[saftgeek]

You are correct, if that transformer did not have a dedicated riser we would have (more) trouble. That transformer does have it's own riser, and I am pushing to get them changed out, but the arguement is, "if all transformers are supposed to be treated as energized, what is the problem?".

We just completed a change-out at one location and the transformer was brought back to the Coop then sent away for scrap. If I can get them in here, there is no question as to what will happen to them.

Thanks again for your comments...

Saftgeek

[49pan]

What is more important, the customers ice cream melting or our brothers and sisters out there. Dead and grounded