Stealing copper

[loodvig]

A contractor was caught stealing copper on N.Grids property last week. 'Thiro' I think they are out of Canada. I know this doesn't make all Thiro guys thieves but that's how it's playing out!

[thrasher]

Copper thefts are becoming big time. We even have had someone cut the fence at our main office and steal the #6 and #4 bare copper reels off the trucks that were parked in the yard. These were 25 lb reels we use for grounding, transformer stingers, and tie-wire on old copperweld lines.

[Squizzy]

There was a guy on the news got sprung stealing copper in 3 months he had cashed in AU$40000 worth and had over 2000kgs at his house. The world price for copper has skyrocketed and now its an obvious target for theft. Problem is all the extra work that it causes with cable ends too short or damaged sheaths all those straight joints are a pain. One linesman i worked with from the UK said the sometimes they would get a no power call and go out and find a dozen or so bays of LV missing....

[topgroove]

The citation alleges that Thiro violated 29 C.F.R. § 1926.21(b)(2) by failing to train its employees in the recognition and avoidance of unsafe conditions and 29 C.F.R. § 1926.951(b)(1) by allowing its employees to work at an elevated location without fall protection. Thiro argues that it reasonably relied upon the union that provided the employees to train them and that the failure to use fall protection at the work site was due to unpreventable employee misconduct.

The facts are generally uncontroverted. On November 23, 1999, compliance officer Daniel Cargill ("the CO") visited Thiro's work site where it was repairing and replacing utility poles. As he approached by car, the CO observed two Thiro employees without fall protection standing on the elevated end of a derrick truck boom to work on a secondary wire. The employees, Scott Ryan and Joseph Michelin, were wearing hard hats and rubber gloves; however, only one wore any eye protection and neither wore fall protection, which remained on the ground nearby. Kenneth Mackie, their foreman, had instructed the two to climb the boom and remained nearby while they did so. Both employees were exposed to a fall of at least 15 feet. (Tr. 6-7, 18-23, 29-36, 46-62, 67-75; C-2-C-5).

Thiro had hired Ryan, Michelin and Mackie from a local union hall aboutthree weeks earlier. All three employees had received formal safety training through the union, including an OSHA 500 course which had at least one hour of instruction on general fall protection at construction sites; however, Ryan and Michelin were still apprentices and were limited in the work they could do without the foreman present. On their first day of work, Orin Reed, Thiro's general foreman, had provided each employee with personal protective equipment and a copy of the company's safety manual. Reed visited the work site once a week, and Paul Loughran, a union safety officer, made four impromptu visits and found nothing amiss. Each morning, the employees had a job site meeting at which safety was incidentally discussed. The day after the inspection, Reed met with the three employees but gave none of them a written reprimand. All three employees were laid off when the job was completed a few weeks later. (Tr. 30-46, 49-63, 68-77, 83-85; R-2, R-4, R-6, R-9, R-11).

After questioning Mackie and the two employees about their work, the CO concluded that they were poorly informed about safe fall protection practices and OSHA requirements. Both the CO and Loughran considered climbing the boom dangerous, and, upon consideration, Mackie agreed. Ryan, on the other hand, did not consider it unsafe to climb the boom. In regard to eye protection, the CO testified that without safety glasses an employee's eyes could have been burned or otherwise injured from an unanticipated electrical arc or contact. (Tr. 24-29, 55, 77, 87).



ALLEGED SERIOUS VIOLATION OF 29 C.F.R. 1926.21(b)(2)

[US & CA Tramp]

Hey Topgroove, What is your point to this post??

[topgroove]

Hey Topgroove, What is your point to this post??the point was... before we bring in contractors on our property a little research into what kind of company they are would be nice. Stealing from us hurts everyone and hiring shady contractors with poor past safety preformance is bad for business.

[loodvig]

Did I see Orin Reed's name in there? LMFAO Care to jump in on this post K-Rat?

[42linehand]

What a Crock, Is it the contractor or is it the men ???? It was the foreman who sent the men up on the boom and it was the men that went out on the boom. If I were to do something stupid that doesnt meen that the contractor is a ratty outfit. Thiro is a decent company that many of our hands work for. Besides the fact that it hires alot of canadian employees who refuse to train the apprentices or speak english every thing else is fine.But for you to sandbag the company in General is Bullsh-t.

[Trampbag]

Take a look at the date of the incident. It was quite a while ago (Nov 1999)

Thiro USA operated out of Hartford, Connecticut and their parent company, Thiro Ltd., is out of Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada. They were a piece of shit company in 1999. Too bad Local 42 didn't run them off or maybe the utility. Don’t know what they are like now. They still exist in Quebec.

Also, about the time of the incident Local 42 was having a problem internally.

The comment is unfair, even though I personally have a very low opinion of Orin Reed, because of the age of the incident. (My opinion and $1.50 gets you a cup of coffee, unless at Starbucks.)

[topgroove]

What a Crock, Is it the contractor or is it the men ???? It was the foreman who sent the men up on the boom and it was the men that went out on the boom. If I were to do something stupid that doesnt meen that the contractor is a ratty outfit. Thiro is a decent company that many of our hands work for. Besides the fact that it hires alot of canadian employees who refuse to train the apprentices or speak english every thing else is fine.But for you to sandbag the company in General is Bullsh-t.A company is only as good as the people who work for them! For a contractor to go to a hall and get a straw boss and two apprentices, give them a hardhat, safety glasses a safety book and a digger and send them out on a job and check on them once a week is a recipe for disaster. Its not like your're hiring some migrant to pick cabage at your farm. Your intrusting someone who you know nothing about to work on your transmision and distribution system where the safety of the general public is at risk. This is a company who's employees refuse to train aprentices or even speak English. It dosen't suprise me one bit that there are thieves among them. Are they a decent company simply because they hire alot of hands out of your hall? I'ld love to run a criminal background check on everyone of them.

[KingRat]

Did I see Orin Reed's name in there? LMFAO Care to jump in on this post K-Rat?Hey loodvig, glad to see you haven;t forgotabout me but what does this have to do with me? Orrin reed has been in the club for the last, maybe 20 years, you would think he knows better unless of course your not held accountable. He now works on your system in tewksbury as a g.f. no less, for harlan is it? I dont know much about Thiro, other than they seem to have a pretty big presence in the area, mostly transmission work not distribution- they seem to know what their doing.We had a couple guys get caught stealing copper maybe 4 or 5 years ago on grid and the owners fired them.I dont think its the companies fault, come on were not kids anymore.Guess where they went- straight to your local ibew hall and got their membership cards and are working on your system now. Topgroove has it right, they should be doing background checks, but the hall doesnt care, it isnt like their a non-profit organization, they are in business to make MONEY, and how do they do that, get more members- but you guys all know that. Most men will speak highly of the company they work for untill they get terminated and you can tell who they are by the way they talk- isnt that the truth?

[old lineman]

Thiro has been around for eons. They have done some great work over the years but to pin rule contraventions solely on the worker is bunk.
That's why they HAVE to have supervision. The supervisors must know all of the rules and regulations or else they're in the wrong position. Knowing them is one side of the coin making the workers follow them is the other.
A supervisor who can't get his subordinates to follow the rules isn't worth the power to blow him to you know where. Even worse is a supervisor who encourages workers to contravine or force his workers to contravine.
When workers don't work safely the super should pay a big price, otherwise the worker will.
Once the supers know that they'll really get nailed for workers violating or injured under their charge they'll do the right thing.
Call a spade a spade.
The Old Lineman

[igloo64]

Companies are only as good as the hands. Thiefs in my book should lose limbs. The only good thief is a dead one!

[Stinger]

I belive the last three copper thieves that have been caught in the malden /lynn MA area stealing NG wire was their own employees. Pretty ratty outfit, maybe they should check their empoyees before they hire them. What is your problem with contractors?

[loodvig]

[QUOTE=Stinger]I belive the last three copper thieves that have been caught in the malden /lynn MA area stealing NG wire was their own employees.

I'm not surprised at that statement at all!

[Stinger]

The more we contractors work for NG, the more your quote becomes reality everyday. They aint happt till everyone is not happy. I'v told this to a couple of FCC's i work with, they got a big chuckle out it and agree.

[grillman]

I thought this thread was about copper theft.

Over the last three or four months we have had some real ballsy thieves here in western missouri. My company has had substaions broken into repeatedly, on a couple of occasions the dumbasses have cut the grounds off of the high side of the power transformer. 161KV.
However they tried to get to ballsy one day on a regulator platform. They attempted to cutthe grounds off while on 12 raise. THere were burnmarks on the middle regulator. To cover there own tracks on of the culprits sat his parents house on fire and checked into the hospital claiming he had been burned in a grease fire. Upon test the burns were not conclusive with a grease burn though and the victim admitted what they had done. The kicker is he was 17. He and his accomplice had hit one of our subs while corporate security was in the sub nonetheless.
We also caught people breaking through our fence in our yard to rob the scrap bins and when we called the police they said they were to busy to help. Its good to know our tax dollars are hard at work.
On another day a foreman and I drove to a jobsite where we had dropped off 2 reels of 1/0 URD. What we found when we got there were a bunch of 20 foot pieces with all the concentric peeled out of it. Tell me that wouldnt take some time!

[Roush6]

We had a problem recently with copper theft as well. I work for Marblehead Municipal up in Mass. The guy went over a barbed-wire fence into one of our substations. Cut up a reel and a half of 500MCM Okonite for a substation project we have on the table...around 2000'. Also took a reel of 4/0 package cable. He never cut the fence, just cut up the wire. Dude also left the biggest turd I've ever seen next to our switchgear. Cop's busted him 2 weeks ago.

Loodvig, you might know my buddy Bob G. He was a T-man out of Andover for a while, jut got bumped up into a super's position in Tewksbury.

[NJlineman55]

Hey buddy at least he left you guys something in return for all that copper!! :) too funny!!

[NJlineman55]

utility I use to work for they would catch a guy at least once a year trying to steal copper. One group of guys pulled into an open gate next to the copper hopper with a u-haul truck and just started loading up the truck during broad daylight. They must have been smoking the wacky shit or something to be so ballsy. Needless to say they were arrested. If lineman are stealing copper from their workplace then they are seriously a bunch of idiots. I mean you are going to jeapordize your well paying job and your reputation for some copper money. Call me crazy but it just doesn't seem worth it.

[BigClive]

Dude also left the biggest turd I've ever seen next to our switchgear. Cop's busted him 2 weeks ago.

Now see, that's called leaving a DNA sample. :D

[Roush6]

It was DNA alright...Do Not Approach!

[loodvig]

Loodvig, you might know my buddy Bob G. He was a T-man out of Andover for a while, jut got bumped up into a super's position in Tewksbury.[/QUOTE]

Ya I know Bob G. but he wasn't 'bumped' he bid the super's job. I don't think he knows what he wants to be! First he bid a 1st class job in Bevery and now he's a super!

[Roush6]

Bid's what I mean't...

[BigClive]

Dude also left the biggest turd I've ever seen next to our switchgear.


I think I may have found the police identity parade for this incident....

http://www.ratemypoo.com

Can you identify it from the list? :D

[Roush6]

I was only able to look at the first couple of suspects, Clive, and they loosely fit the description. Nasty!!!

[BigClive]

Personally I can't believe that the site exists let alone has people posting pictures of their poop on it. Strange place the Internet...

[old horseman]

At least the thieves are stealing cooper and not turds!! That would be strange

[DuFuss]

Well how much are turds going for? I got a whole bag of them and if you want I'll even set them on fire.

[BigClive]

Well how much are turds going for? I got a whole bag of them and if you want I'll even set them on fire.

I had a rather hot curry earlier on, so I think mine are on fire already. :mad:

[Roush6]

That turd was actually priceless...no one will ever forget the 22nd of August, 2006 @ the MMLD!

[doug]

We Had Them Breaking In To The Yards Stealing The Junk Cu.and Al.also They Where Stealing 1 And 3 Ph. 480v Meter Loops Off Oilwells Locations Hot And Not Hot Loc.they Are Also Going Into New Houses In Sub And Stealing Cu.out Of The Attics And Walls!!!

[Hemingray Insulators]

here in michigan people have been stealing the big motors off the irrigation sprinklers, and unwinding them and selling the copper as drug money.

but then, near my uncles, in indiana there is this yard, that the power co doesn's even fence in, and they have bins of old copper, one night I was there to see if there was any linemen there to talk to, and I noticed about 5 HUGE rolls of old 3 strand copper (not sure what size) but they just leave stuff like that sitting out, because they trust people not to take it, I was back the next day, just as they were getting off so, I got to meet a few linemen and talk to them, and they told me I could take anything I wanted from their dumpster I ever wanted to build another line lol. I'ts a small co-op, and i'm considering moving down there, and going to work for them. as far as I can tell, it's a real good company, and it has a good saftey record. and I like it down there, by where my uncle lives.
but ya, they seem to trust everyone down there. I mean they don't even fence it their yard. LOL

[JAKE]

there was a good one in florida bout a month ago, someone cut the grounds off a regulator, it blew and arm and leg off.

then some ahole stole about 10miles of wire out of the pole lights on I35 south of dallas.

we havent had any thefts at are local office but it wont suprize me when it happens. one of our other offices had some thefts so now we have to unload all are copper every day it blows!! especially when yall haul ass outta the yard in the middle of the night without something

[Roush6]

We had another theft yesterday...I'm the on-call lineman this weekend, GM called to ask that I come down because the cops had just caught 2 guys in one of our substations cutting up some 336 AL Hendrix. Stupid assses cut there way in @ 8am...Iguess they thought they were invisible. They were like rat's in a cage. We found no less than 5 spots in the fence where people have tried to cut their way in. Oh yeah...no turd this time!

[Stinger]

Rosch, ask the mpd to question these guys about numerous copper thefts at the NG yard in lynn on marine Blvd. We are still getting hit on occassions. Quite a coinsidence being right close to one another. we have tools and other things stolen form our show-up. If you want give me a call at 781-630-0702- Bruce

[JAKE]

most of the thefts round here have been happening during the day also. they have been drivin white pickups, wearin hard hats....so there trying to look like us so they dont get stopped. up in one of our other offices a line crew thought they were just part of the contractors crew when they took off with a 1000' roll of 4/0 cu ground wire.

[Roush6]

Hi Stinger...the 2 guys that got caught were supposed to be arrainged in Lynn District Court today...1 from Lynn, 1 from Salem. It was in the police log from today's Salem Evening News.