Lineman shortage

[lineman barn]

My hubby and I were talking this past weekend about the number of lineman vacancies they have in his region. The recruiter says he can't find qualified candidates. I know from my past experience in recruiting that a shortage was coming and the companies all over the nation knew it. I'm wondering is it really that bad or could it be other factors? Some things that might contribute could be:

Linemen don't want to live in central Florida? The area I am talking about is around Orlando and west and south of it for Progress Energy.

Linemen don't like the online application process or have trouble with it and just give up?

Linemen apply but never hear anything back from the company? Did it get there or not?

Trouble passing CAST test?

Don't want to work for that particular company?

Aren't aware that the company is hiring? Maybe not enough advertising?

Would require a signing bonus or some other incentive?

Or, is it really that bad?

I believe there are almost 20 vacancies in his region alone. Let me know what you think or have experienced. It would be interesting info to give him. You can PM me if you don't feel comfortable posting it.

[Hurricane Harry]

I am a third generation floridian who grew up in miami. There is nothing i would like more than to move back to florida. My father is a lineman/cablesplicer with over 40 years at fpl. I left florida because i was tired of low wages and being treated like crap. I have had several interviews for jobs with various utilities around the state, but can't bring myself to go back to just getting by on thier wages. I hope one day the south can bring back the union conditions that many people in the rest of the country enjoy.

[lineman barn]

Thanks HH. I've never lived any where but Florida. I've heard other states pay higher but don't other states have state income tax and stuff like that? I know Florida has an issue with tons of "low wage" jobs, especially in the hospitality industry. The costs to live here have really gone up after all the hurricanes. Our taxes and home owners insurance are more than 3 times what they were 3 years ago!!!!

I've checked some of the job postings and wages are higher in some areas, but some of the areas are big cities too. It would be interesting to see a salary survey for various companies to see how far behind Florida is. I know Progress Energy has union workers and I believe FPL does too. I guess salary is a huge negotiating issue.

Thanks for the input. I look forward to hearing what others say so I can pass it on to my hubby. We are both just curious as to what the problem is....

[loodvig]

The way I see it there's a nation wide shortage of linemen!

[Line Cowboy]

AMEN you tell em man

[thrasher]

Our company recognized there is a shortage coming and that's why we have three men in the apprentice program. While three doesn't sound like a lot we only have 21 in the outside crews including supervisors and apparatus, so three is a significant commitment. One finishes in 2007, one in 2008 and one in 2010.

[topgroove]

You think there is a shortage now... Wait till next year when the pension formula switches to the corporate bond rate instead of the 30 year T note. alll utility lineman 55 and over are gonna have to really look at the numbers . The new formula will be phased in over time 20% a year for 5 years so those that can retire will really have to look at the numbers and deside what they want to do. The longer they stay the more money they're gonna loose. Its gonna be tougher to choose between the lump sum or the annuity for most people. Either way the last day to get out will be Dec. 1st 2007. On that day you will see the biggest max exodus this trade has ever seen!

[lineman barn]

This is some really great dialog. I really appreciate it!

I want to address Swamp for a second. I have heard it told that more than one of the older union hands has told a group of line guys they work with that they better start putting forth more of an effort and put pressure on their "brothers" to get some work done cause the contractors are gonna have it if they don't. I am sure those are not the exact words but it went something like that.

I spoke to an older gentleman this weekend while hunting in south carolina....he as a farmer is having the same problem. He can't even find a young man willing to bag corn for him...says they don't want to work and if they do, he can't afford to pay what they want. It's a sad thing across this country.

I agree, Linemen are a special type of person. Not everyone wants to do that kind of work. It is a very special field and a very rewarding career choice for those willing to do it.

Hey Top, is this a company specific thing or something I haven't heard about yet? Is it like that cash balance thing?

Thanks guys! Keep it coming!

[topgroove]

Its called the Pension Reform Act. It will affect everyone in America vested in a traditional pension.It was passed by Congress and recently signed into law by the president. Companies that offer a traditional pension will be forced to 100% fund their pension fund. As a comprimise Congress aggreed to change the formula in which a pension is calculated to a much more favorable corporate bond intrest rate. In a nutshell it means companies will have to set aside more money into the fund but the payout per person will be less. This will take effect Jan 1st 2008. To gaurantee the 30 year T note based pension you must retire by Dec 1st 2007. I have read that experts predict many companies will be forced to freeze their pension fund to stay solvent. This may make it an easier for people to decide to take the lump sum instead of a monthly annuity. Better to take the money and run. In anycase it certainly gives everyone 55 and older and are eligble to retire something to think about !

[lineman barn]

Thanks for the info. I copied it over to my hubby so he could see if the guys at the company in that situation were aware of it and if not, tell them they need to find out about it! THANKS again

[thrasher]

There are some exceptions to the Act. For example all Cooperatives that participate in a "multi-employer" plan that does not invest in thier own companies are exempt from most provisions. This is because even if an individual cooperative goes bankrupt it will not effect the plan or the benefits that have been earned up to that point.
The other thing most unions can expect is that more and more companies are going to try to freeze or convert true pension plans into 401k savings plans. This is because most pension plans will take significantly more funding under the new rules.

[topgroove]

Exactly !! as the old saying goes Get while the gettings good.

[Trampbag]

Swamprat

"If it weren't for Rat Contractors, there would be no new "applicants" for CAST tests for Union jobs.

If every Non Union contractor in America, and all their employees were taken off the job tomorrow,...America would be "Lights out", in a month."[/B]


I don’t generally get involved in this moronic crap but grab a efing brain. It isn’t true. The bulk of apprenticeships are union sponsored and paid, in large part, out of contributions deducted from union hands. There simply aren’t enough non-union linemen around to sponsor line apprenticeships even if there was a deduction from their wages, which there isn’t, to have any significant effect. Unorganised linehands don’t put one thin damn dime out of their pockets into training.

Swamprat, you make some sense sometimes, but in this one your ass is way out there.

[Orgnizdlbr]

My hubby and I were talking this past weekend about the number of lineman vacancies they have in his region. The recruiter says he can't find qualified candidates. I know from my past experience in recruiting that a shortage was coming and the companies all over the nation knew it. I'm wondering is it really that bad or could it be other factors? Some things that might contribute could be:

Linemen don't want to live in central Florida? The area I am talking about is around Orlando and west and south of it for Progress Energy.

Linemen don't like the online application process or have trouble with it and just give up?

Linemen apply but never hear anything back from the company? Did it get there or not?

Trouble passing CAST test?

Don't want to work for that particular company?

Aren't aware that the company is hiring? Maybe not enough advertising?

Would require a signing bonus or some other incentive?

Or, is it really that bad?

I believe there are almost 20 vacancies in his region alone. Let me know what you think or have experienced. It would be interesting info to give him. You can PM me if you don't feel comfortable posting it.

There is and will continue to be a nation wide shortage of Lineman. There are many reasons. I'll just touch on a few primarily in the IOU sector. Most IOUs stopped hiring and training Lineman when the wonderful concept of deregulation reared its ugly head in the electric power transmission and distribution industry. Rather than concentrate on core business, the companies focused on the bottom line and became much more focused on investor return. They got rid of old time management who knew the business and replaced them with bean counters who dont know the difference between acsr and cu. They started attriting their workforces and failed to anticipate future needs within the business and industry. All the while concentrating on everything else except the customer and the transmission and distribution systems. Time passed, money was not invested in the infrastructure and consequently the systems became more overloaded with each new connected costomer. Fast forward to the present. Customers demanding better service, various state PUCs getting pressure from customers and politicos..Unions start exert pressure on the PUCs and politicos who inturn pressure theIOUs to invest in infrastructure and set minimum staffing levels. So, where do you get Qualified Lineman? Steal them from the Union halls. Steal them from Rat contractors and train as few as possible. Now lets talk about todays training....when i broke in those many years ago you got trained on the job and in formal training (line school) where if you couldnt cut the mustard you kicked your lunch pail down the road. Today many IOUs want an associates degree before they will hire a candidate to become a Lineman. I am not opposed to formal education, but a degree to do linework IMHO as a requirement is silly and a waste.

[44kv]

I am a 2nd year ape, trying to get a job with dominion power. going for interveiw on tuesday with 5 others.I m the only one with any line work background, the only one with cdl's, and the recruter still tells me that it will be hard for me to get on because of some trouble i got into in 1998. He told me I passed the cast test with flying colors and still will have a hard time because of one felony I got when I was 18! Must not need help to bad!

[NJlineman55]

I just did a phone interview with a power company and the indicated to me that if you had a felony conviction in the last five years then you are not eligible for the job. That being said i would assume that each company has different rules but when you go for the interview make sure you stress how much of a bad mistake you made and how much of a lesson you took from the conviction etc. The only thing you can do is be honest and show remorse and if they still won't take you than it is their loss. Also stress the fact that the conviction was 8 years ago and I assuming you haven't been in trouble after that? If you haven't then this shows that you have learned your lesson and they should take this into consideration.

[44kv]

that makes sense thank you for the advice!

[electric squirrel]

If you guys just stayed on the outside you wouldnt have aything to worry about!!! E.S. :cool:

[44kv]

Have not been in trouble since march 13th 1998. Iwas young and made a stuiped mistake, should have listened to my moma more!!!

[44kv]

dominoin turned me down and hire 3 guys with no exp. because of my felony, so again I say there not needing help to bad!

[thrasher]

Speaking as someone who does hiring, I look at what the felony was for. I have hired a man with an assault and battery from a bar fight, but never even interviewed a convicted burglar. My member-consumers don't need someone "casing" thier property on my time. What I look for is a man that knows the talk, is neat in appearance (jeans and T shirt are fine, just clean and no holes), is on-time, has a CDL, and asks questions about the job, and our rules. I figure if a man is either too dumb or too uncaring to ask any questions I don't need him. When he is first hired he is on probation for 6 months and we evaluate can he actually do the work safely that he claims he can do, if not he is let go. However our preference is to hire truck drivers then bring them thru our in-house apprentice program to become linemen.

[44kv]

I was conviceted for B&E and I have never stole anything! I kicked a mans door in because he put his hands on my sister when she was 2 years old back in 1998. I should have let the cops handle it, but danville va police didnt seem to interested in that,so he got a good beating and I got 5 years in prison.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

Next Time Use A Wood Chipper.

[Budda]

In Canada, you can pick your own job now..Dist or Trans / Rat or Union,
The company I work for now is Non-Union for another 10 Days, well we got 68 % who signed cards..In my career (20 yrs) there has'nt been this much work out there ever. Its everyplace and every where.

To all you Line brothers: Is this the futher or would you say the gravy train is coming to a stop.

[Trampbag]

Chicago Hand,


“While we are always willing to negotiate as equals, the era of union busting, contract trashing, and strike breaking is at an end. Today, we say that when you pick a fight with any of us, you pick a fight with all of us! And that when you push us, we will push back!”


Don’t lull your self into a false sense of security. Union busting will never go away it just goes into reemission, like cancer, at times. Right now the economy is up and, because of businesses failure to fund training and apprenticeships over the last 25 years, trades qualified personnel are in high demand. Enjoy the present as a calm in the storm but expect the fight against organised labor to raise its head once the economy causes a surplus of workers rather than the present shortage.

Also pay attention to politics when the economy turns. If there is a shift to the right and business has a larger influence than normal expect the attack on organised labor to be more antagonistic.

For now, enjoy the relative peace and protect your collective agreement, gaining as much as possible, because when labor unrest is once again thrust upon us we will loose some of our benefits. Always gain something you can afford to trade off in those times.

["little beaver"]

In Canada, you can pick your own job now..Dist or Trans / Rat or Union,
The company I work for now is Non-Union for another 10 Days, well we got 68 % who signed cards..In my career (20 yrs) there has'nt been this much work out there ever. Its everyplace and every where.

To all you Line brothers: Is this the futher or would you say the gravy train is coming to a stop.

Budda, I started linework the year you were born! It was like this in the late 60's thru the 70's. I'm a 'dual citizen'; I worked in both the US and Canada. I saved my money and eventually bought a little farm/ranch in BC. When the downturn came in aprox 1982, I was well set up and got through it.
I put 30 yrs in for BC Hydro. BCH has a very good pension that takes care of myself and the wife with medical etc for as long as we live. I'm still working part-time as a contractor/consultant mostly for the Oil Companies.
Eventually things will go the other way. So get yourself ready 'cause the whiners will be all over this board crying how the world's turned against them and the Goverment is to blame ' cause they were so STUPID and spent all their $$$$ when times were good. I always told the young guys working for me to 'look after yourself', don't rely on the Gov'ment and especially not the Union!

[Bull Dog]

Good advice beaver I hope the young fellas out there are reading this! Its no different now than when we started..

[Trampbag]

Hey Beaver,

How long have you been anti-union??

It was the union that got you those nice benefits including, “a very good pension that takes care of myself and the wife with medical etc for as long as we live.” The IBEW is still representing BCH workers, was then, is now. You take all those bennies, but what have you done in return?????

Yes, you rode through the ‘80’s where a lot of others fell by the wayside not because you were smart but rather because you put your head down so it didn’t get taken off. You never backed your fellow linehands but allowed rats into your lunch rooms and shops. I had a lot of friends who got hurt badly in BC because you guys didn’t have the balls to take a stand.

So the next check that comes to your door or the next time you go to the doctor maybe, just maybe some little pang of compassion will flit though your mind for those who didn’t fare as well as you. Maybe, but I doubt it.

It’s guys like you that I’m warning the younger ones to be mindful of. When the times change don’t expect guys like Beaver to help out. He will only be helping himself.


“I'm still working part-time as a contractor/consultant mostly for the Oil Companies.” Union contractor? Hardly likely.



If you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem!!

[Stanman, at ComEdy Il.]

Swampy, are you suggesting drug tests are bad? I mean, I love workin with a coke head as much as the next guy, but come on! You agree with this?

Hell of alot more drugs these days. Meth is great, if you like having no teeth! Union or not, this is your brain on drugs!

Just a question swampy. What drives the wage? Union wage drives non-union wage? So quit smoking crack bro. If the union didn't exist, neither would your wage! Non-union= no rights.

As far as beaver? He must be a canuck. Stay in Canada you piece of shit! America already has enough assholes without you!

["little beaver"]

"Just a question swampy. What drives the wage? Union wage drives non-union wage? So quit smoking crack bro. If the union didn't exist, neither would your wage! Non-union= no rights"

Basic Economics 101 answer to the above, 'it's called supply and demand'.

Out of my 39yrs in the trade, I worked about 2+ yrs in the non-union sector over a dispute I had with with the IBEW. It was the best thing I ever did, at least I can say I once served in the 'real world of linework'.

"As far as beaver? He must be a canuck. Stay in Canada you piece of shit! America already has enough assholes without you!"

I'm a 'dual citizen', I can work anywhere in North America!! BTW: Do you feel so bad about yourself that you have to resort to name calling? Just argue the point logically, the bogey man is not going to get you.

"It’s guys like you that I’m warning the younger ones to be mindful of. When the times change don’t expect guys like Beaver to help out. He will only be helping himself"

My comment on the above is that experience tells me that when someone says they're looking after my welfare, (you know like Karl Marx, Lenin and the boys) they're usually maneuvering to tax the shit out of me, steal something from me when my back is turned or some how get me to work while they sit on their useless ass and get the same pay etc.

Hey Swamp, 'how ya doing?', I plan on being down your way in March. I'll PM you.

[Trampbag]

“Out of my 39yrs in the trade, I worked about 2+ yrs in the non-union sector over a dispute I had with with the IBEW. It was the best thing I ever did, at least I can say I once served in the 'real world of linework'.”

So if it was the best thing you ever did, why are you accepting that “very good pension that takes care of myself and the wife with medical etc for as long as we live.”
That pension and med bennies are union bennies. BC Hydro doesn’t give money away.

You spent 37 years fucking the dog???!!!!

“I'm a 'dual citizen', I can work anywhere in North America!!” More take and use the system. Who holds your loyalty?? Did you conveniently choose to live in Canada in the ‘60’s like many other draft dodgers????

“My comment on the above is that experience tells me that when someone says they're looking after my welfare, (you know like Karl Marx, Lenin and the boys) they're usually maneuvering to tax the shit out of me, steal something from me when my back is turned or some how get me to work while they sit on their useless ass and get the same pay etc.”
Doesn’t want to pay taxes and paranoid of anyone around because everyone else is a lazy useless thief!!!

You are a taker, with both hands. Problem is if you and shitbags like you had stood up and been counted when all those apprentices that were not allowed to finish their apprenticeships in 1982 – 86 British Columbia might not have the severe shortage of linemen it has today. But you, and others like you were too busy, weren’t you? Rememeber what you said?

“When the downturn came in aprox 1982, I was well set up and got through it.”

What would you have done if the IBEW had not protected seniority back then? The only reason you survived was because you had some seniority ensured and protected by the IBEW.

I don’t have any animosity toward a hand who works in a non-union workplace. I know a number of real good hands who do so. Not every place is union and if you happen to like living in one of those locations you do what you do.

I do, however, have a large amount of antipathy towards a piece of shit like you, Beaver. You’re a hypocrite. You’re a worthless piece of crud that can only be counted on to not be counted on. In your own words it appears you have never made a commitment to anyone or anything in your life except you.

["little beaver"]

Trampy, you seem to have a lot up pent up rage issues that you haven't dealt with. Name calling really doesn't win the day(nor make you money), it justs gets you 'labeled' as a nut case. Using worn out cliches that refer to sexual fantasies that you may have had for animals is in poor taste as well!

When the downturn came in aprox 1982, I was well set up and got through it.”

What would you have done if the IBEW had not protected seniority back then? The only reason you survived was because you had some seniority ensured and protected by the IBEW.

To answer the above, I was able to sell some property (more due to good luck than good management) just before the recession hit. Ironicallly, the IBEW actually caused me to loose senority as they changed the rules part way through. So I did two things that really helped me down the road. First, I went out and got my 'A' contractors license. Second, I started looking for something inovative that no one else was doing. I subsequently partnered with a guy into a business anchoring service rigs in the Oil industry.
My son and his wife now own and operate that business and are doing very well at it.

As for military service, I served in the Canadian Army Reserve. I last participated in the 60th Anniversary D-Day jump in 2004 with the Canadian Airborne Veterans Assoc. As for my loyality, I've taken the solemn oath to serve and protect our Sovereign (QE II) her heirs and assigns.

[Trampbag]

“As for my loyality, I've taken the solemn oath to serve and protect our Sovereign (QE II) her heirs and assigns.” “I'm a 'dual citizen', I can work anywhere in North America!!” (Which flag shall I wrap myself in now??)

“BCH has a very good pension that takes care of myself and the wife with medical etc for as long as we live.”) (BC Hydro employees are IBEW Local 258 members and so are entitled to union benefits

“Out of my 39yrs in the trade, I worked about 2+ yrs in the non-union sector over a dispute I had with with the IBEW. It was the best thing I ever did, at least I can say I once served in the 'real world of linework'.” (37 years of dog fucking??)

“I'm still working part-time as a contractor/consultant mostly for the Oil Companies.” (Non-union contractor and did so on weekends while working for a union utility while protected by union seniority of course my wife owns the company.)

“Ironicallly, the IBEW actually caused me to loose senority as they changed the rules part way through.” (I was still able to survive because of my protected seniority.)

“So I did two things that really helped me down the road. First, I went out and got my 'A' contractors license.” (So I could be a Rat contractor while being protected by the union)

“Second, I started looking for something inovative that no one else was doing. I subsequently partnered with a guy into a business anchoring service rigs in the Oil industry.” (I located someone to “get me to work while they sit on their useless ass and get the same pay.”)

”My son and his wife now own and operate that business and are doing very well at it.” (Actually your wife probably always owned the company, on paper, to hide the fact that you were a rat contactor while taking union pay and protection.)


Too bad all those useless lazy apprentices got bounced from thier trade part way through but I got mine, screw the trade. :)


I guess one just has to understand you. That understanding requires believing which story you are telling at the time.


I stand by my statement;

Beaver, you can be counted on to not be counted on. Kinda sucks to be you, Eh!

["little beaver"]

I (likewise) stand by my statement> 'cause the whiners will be all over this board crying how the world's turned against them and the Goverment is to blame ' cause they were so STUPID and spent all their $$$$ when times were good.

"Kinda sucks to be you, Eh!" You got a big problem with what's known as 'functional fixation'. Do you ever come up with anything new or original? I guess you're just content to wallow in mediocrity!

[Trampbag]

One thing is for sure, for anyone who is a lineman today times should be relatively good even with a down turn in the economy. There is a huge shortage in qualified linemen, and that won’t change anytime soon, and there is an energy crisis. Even though there may be localised work shortages there will continue to be work for those who have the ability to travel.

With the condition of the transmission and distribution systems and the fact that they are overloaded it is a good time to be a lineman. I know of a number of transmission projects that are scheduled to kick off in the very near future.

["little beaver"]

One thing is for sure, for anyone who is a lineman today times should be relatively good even with a down turn in the economy. There is a huge shortage in qualified linemen, and that won’t change anytime soon, and there is an energy crisis. Even though there may be localised work shortages there will continue to be work for those who have the ability to travel.

With the condition of the transmission and distribution systems and the fact that they are overloaded it is a good time to be a lineman. I know of a number of transmission projects that are scheduled to kick off in the very near future.

Much agreed on the above, The best to you, "Have hooks will travel"

[CenterPointEX]

ditto............................................. .....