Cut and Kick

[mrgrowl791]

Just wondering how many people here use this method for pole change-outs. If so could someone kindly explain?

[Hemingray Insulators]

I've heard of it, and in fact, i have saw a thread with pics on one of these sites. I'll try to locate the thread I'm thinking of for you............

[Hemingray Insulators]

found it, it was on the "other" site, but since that site and powerlineman don't get along well, I'll PM ya the link............ hope it helps

[linemanfrog]

Hemingway send that link to me as well if you dont mind. I have heard of cut and kick for awhile now and to date have not seen or met anyone who has tried the process. I have been told how it works.....but would like the additional info from someone who has actually tried it. So if any of you have actually attemped this process....let the rest of us know how it worked for you.

[LINETRASH]

Sounds like a method we used to change out transmission structures.

Grab the pole with your digger, cut it with a chain saw about a foot off the ground.

Set a reel end or other cribbing on the ground and lower the severed pole onto it.

Pull the stubb.

Set your pole in the same hole, after reaming it out with your digger.

Transfer your facilities.

You can also straighten a deadend pole by digging next to it and grabbing it with your winch, then "kicking" the butt over into the new hole. Saves alot of rigging.

There is also a useful method to swing a pot from old pole to new using some of the same techniques.

But I'll save that one for a specific thread.

[T-Man]

It is used often in the cities, when you have to put the pole back in the same hole.We use the wooden pads for our outriggers to set the poles on.It works well it really isnt that difficult or risky.Just take your time and move it slow.

[T-Saw]

We've done this before, I guess I didn't know it had a name , but that is sort of what we called it anyway, lol . "
" Hey I got an idea,let's just CUT the pole off just above the ground, and KICK it off to the side. "

" sounds good lets do it , then we'll just pull the butt and ream the existing hole."

We have used a similar technique when we had to lower a line due to some grading work for a road widening project. We would dig a hole a few feet deep right next to the pole, pull it up and kick it over, ream the old hole and drop the pole back in.My personal opinion was that moving the whole line one pole width to the side , would have been easier, ( i.e. dig the new hole deeper right next to the existing, one , drop it in and tamp it in place) but the foreman at the time wanted the line in the exact same place. Maybe there was an easement issue I didn't know about or something. Whilee we were doing this job a vendor brought out a giant vacuum excavator for us to try.... it only took about 3 times as long as our method...lol... and the foreman was somewhat of a go-getter , so we only used the vac on about 5 of the poles. We though maybe we would get the hang of it and be able to do it faster , but the foreman wasn't patient enough.

[topgroove]

We cut and kick all the time here.sometimes its cleaner and quicker than digging a new hole. its real handy when there's a riser on the old pole and you want the new pole in the same spot. If you mount a crossarm on the old pole you won't lose any height when you cut the old pole..I've done this backlot a couple times also when you couldn't get any equipment back there. Used a 5 ton hoist to pull the butt out and rigged 3 and 3's off the old pole to hoist the new pole up and in the hole. The most important thing about cut and kicks is to make sure the pole is guyed four ways.

[shocker]

cut and kick .... we call it a RIP replace in place.done many times in the city were because of lack of room or alley clearence or poor digging conditions we are forced to cut pole move over and replce in place

[edski104]

up in the northeast we do almost all our poles cut and kick because of the buried gas and water and other stuff in the ground. you still need to get a locate before you do any sort of big job unless your gonna hand dig it,and with all the rocks,have fun. mostly if its a tangent pole,tie a rope at the secondary, grab the pole short with the linetruck,wrap your winchline around low so you can control the butt, cut it like the man said, about a foot off the ground, kick it off to the side so when you pull the butt you can put the new pole in nice and easy, and set it down on some cribbing. no big deal.then tye it off. if the butt want to move,drive in a hard bar,or tie it to a truck. always use a plumb-bob when your learning so you know where the new pole is going to go. don't trust your eyes,not for a bit. practice makes perfect. oh,and don't try it on sandy soil like there is in fla, the shit just lets go and falls away. good luck with this one and take your time,these can be nasty if you dont know how to do them. :cool:

[NJ glove]

In jersey we call that a spot set. We cut a 6ft cross arm into three pieces put them together and sit the pole on that. Then we try to pull the butt of the pole out the hole. If it won't come out you can drive a ground rod into the butt about half way. Then grab the ground rod with a Come along attach to your winch line and out it comes. then just set your new pole and begin your transfer. Edski is right works well in the city.

[NJ glove]

Next time we have on I'll make sure to take pictures. Have one on my cell phone. lol hopefully it will be clear enough to post some how

[racinsprintz10]

The only problem is that most poles you are changing out are rotten. The ground rod through the butt trick doesnt work to well sometimes (not much wood to hold, works great on car hit poles) . Mount an arm on the base of the pole and cut the pole 4 feet or so from the ground. Much easier to pull the butt with the line truck or pole jack. Cut and kicks work slick but can be a pain in the ass with stubborn pole butt.

[NJlineman55]

Thats a good one but one that I have found that works even better is you drop the auger down next to the butt and put pressure down on the ground as you lift up on the winch line. Gives you that extra pressure you need to pull a pesky butt. try it sometime it works great!!!

[edski104]

yep,done that too, if you get a real hard one,double the winch line back to the boom while its on the ground and if you don't push the auger into the ground hopefully the butt will come out. sometimes we drive lags(hardheads)into the pole to keep the winch line or chain or whatever we have wraped around the butt. i've never done it myself,but i've been told driving a groundrod into the butt will let you pull out even the hardest ones.that i have my doubts about.i'd have to see that one myself. otherwise,doing sets this way is very easy,as long as things go your way,i've also spent all day doing 1 pole after cutting it off and the ground being frozen and the pole being rotten. make for a long day.stay safe brothers. :cool:

[racinsprintz10]

double sheaving works great on stubborn butts, just make sure your working for someone that doesnt throw a shit-fit. haha

[Orgnizdlbr]

In jersey we call that a spot set. We cut a 6ft cross arm into three pieces put them together and sit the pole on that. Then we try to pull the butt of the pole out the hole. If it won't come out you can drive a ground rod into the butt about half way. Then grab the ground rod with a Come along attach to your winch line and out it comes. then just set your new pole and begin your transfer. Edski is right works well in the city.

Thats right, never heard "cut and kick" we call it a "spot replacement" or "spot set". Ive done it many times, its fairly simple depending on the configuration of the pole. Ive lashed em to the new pole and tied together with steel braces lagged together in an X pattern after we transfer, sometimes telephone takes months to change em out....

[NU Limey]

We use this method as an alternative when drilling a new hole isn`t practical, city situations when curb cutting isn`t allowed. in rural or urban areas when you know rock or ledge is going to give you problems. We try to work with Telco crews as it usually involves putting slack in drops.Checking old poles is important, earlier this year an old pole broke at Tel. dropping 4160 ontop a digger, luckily no one was hurt and the station breaker tripped.

[DuFuss]

Setting the auger on the ground when pulling a butt does work well. If you guys are using a rope instead of cable remember to not get it on the auger or it will cut it.

[PSE Lineman]

We did that in an alley once (15 years ago) and the cable sling slipped off the (rotted) butt and went through the phases 50 feet above our heads like a helicopter blade and then came back down through the phases and landed right where we were standing after we scattered like a bunch of cockroaches. Missed the phases by inches. I'll NEVER forget the sight when I looked up and then ran like hell. They have since gone to pole setting chains. The point being , the amount of force you are exerting on the sling when you put the auger down on the ground to keep the truck from tipping over while you double up the line to the boom and put a shieve on the pole butt is more than you think. It could bust stuff from hell to breakfast including the 1 and 1 eighth inch yacht braid winch line , so be careful!!

[Electriceel]

Sometimes easier isn't always better

[topgroove]

also if you run the auger out on stage two you run the risk of damaging the boom. its best to keep everything stung in.The safest bet is to get out the butt puller.

[loodvig]

Does anyone pull butts with the bed winch? If you do get all you can on the bed winch then raise the back of the truck using the outriggers or legs. You can get 5" or 6" more out of the ground doing this. Lower the back, back down where it belongs, and take some more on the bed winch.

[mrgrowl791]

Thanks for all the valuable info. I understand most of what you guys are talking about, but if someone using this method would take a few pics it would be greatly appreciated.

[KingRat]

also if you run the auger out on stage two you run the risk of damaging the boom. its best to keep everything stung in.The safest bet is to get out the butt puller.
wow topgroove, im impressed you do know what your talking about.

[NoName]

I am amazed at how many people have responded to this that seem to never heard of this technique or have rarely used it.

Pretty much a common practice in my career.

That sort of puzzles me as to why this is the case. Wierd.

[edski104]

i'd guess that people have something to say about this because setting poles is the backbone of the job. if you can't set a pole, you sure as hell don't belong in the air swaping it out. in some places you'll never have to cut one like you do up north because the soil is so soft you can hand dig right next to it with a pair of post hole diggers in about 15 or 20 minutes. but everyone in the trade should at some point have to learn to set poles. yes,there are some who will try not to do it, but send them down the road.it's all part of the job,just like back lot pots,cliping in static wire,doing deadends off a ladder,and all the rest. gotta just do it.i've seen in back lots in boston where they've set fiberglass poles in place of wood.last a lot longer i guess,just put them together and use a special drillbit.talk about nice. :cool:

[billg]

Pulling pole buts that Boston Edison set with cement collars was always fun.

[edski104]

thats because they set them so the T could use them for hanging cat wire on. when we did dorchester we had a shitload of those collars we had to jackhamer out of the sidewalks. and had to start at 6 am in the morning. nice when some welfare guy comes running out of the house screaming at you to shut the hell up because he just went to bed and he's waiting for his check. those compressers are loud as hell in the hood. a few pieces came out too to try and shut us up,but all that happened was we started 1/2 an hour later. the g/f was a little nutty.hi bill. :cool:

[KingRat]

Does anyone pull butts with the bed winch? If you do get all you can on the bed winch then raise the back of the truck using the outriggers or legs. You can get 5" or 6" more out of the ground doing this. Lower the back, back down where it belongs, and take some more on the bed winch.
yeah, we know all those tricks loodvig- and that is a good one. Good luck on retirement, stay healthy and dont forget if you need a bucket to paint your house give us a call.

[loodvig]

yeah, we know all those tricks loodvig- and that is a good one. Good luck on retirement, stay healthy and dont forget if you need a bucket to paint your house give us a call.
OUCH! LOL That's one for you K-rat! But thanks anyway.