PDA

View Full Version : Are Mormans Christians?



CenterPointEX
11-14-2006, 09:04 PM
"Now hear it o inhabitants of the earth, when our Father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make this world. He is Michael the Archangel, the Acient of days about whom holy men have written and spoken. He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the Earth, professing Christians or nonprofessing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. "

Journal of Discourses Volume 1, page 50

This is Mormon Scripture and it came from the third Prophet of the Mormon Church. He said that Adam was God and that God was a man. The Mormans will tell you that maybe this quote is incorrect... Then they go on to defend it if maybe it was correct.

They will tell you that Joseph Smith was a prophet and all of his successors were prophets who have have revelations from God, including the third prophet.

The prophets teach a doctrine and then next year claim they never taught that doctrine.

One of their Scripture books, Doctrines an Covenants had seventy pages removed from it in one year. The section was called "Lectures on Faith" The reason they removed it was because it conflicted with the book of Mormon and the book of Abraham the other Mormon Scriptures. The "Lectures on Faith" Section taught that God was Spirt. While the Mormon church teaches,
"As Man is, God once was... and as God is, man can someday be." This teaching came from the book of Abraham, a Mormon Scripture which Joseph Smith claims to have translated from some Egyptian Papruses that he bought off a traveling Mummy exibit. He copied the Egyptian symbals writing into the book. He said it was the book of Abraham, written by Abraham. These symbols are in the Mormon Scripture "book of Abraham" along with the translation. Problem is these Papyruses recently surfaced and folks who can read them have determined JOseph Smith to be a liar.

But don't try to reason with a Mormon. If the the Morman Church tells em "Black is White" they pray about it, get a fuzzy feeling and from that feeling decide that it's true... Black is now White and it never was Black.

Because of the Book of Abraham controversy, their current President HInkley recently said, "The Morman Church has never taught that God was once a Man." In our life time the book of Morman will be relagated to Allagory by the Morman Church and they will say they never taught the history contained in it was real but merly stories that teach us how to live. This will happen because Science, Archeology, Genetics etc. are all comming to the conclusion that the stories and claims of the book of Morman did not happen. Mormon Scientists have been working on these things and have been comming to the same conclusions.

Mormans claim that anyone who is not Morman, is not Christian...

So I pose the question, are Mormans Christians?

wormy
11-15-2006, 06:50 PM
Sure why not. Seems to me peoples views on religion are decided by where you were born. If you are born into a Mormon family most likely you are going to be Mormon. Born into Baptist most likely thats what you will be and believe. Catholic family catholic. China maybe Buddhism. Syria Mohamed. Do I know who is right? Nope. Am I sure anyone is right? Not sure anymore. A lady I work with who considers herself a super Christian would like to nuke the Arabs out of existence. Arabs would like to nuke us out of existences. When I see Catholic priests molesting boys it makes me wonder. Of course the same could be said about Baptist or Church of God or whoever. The prisons are full of them. It sure tests your faith.

It is a great big beautiful universe that I feel someone or something created. But with all the killing going on in the name of Religion I just don't know anymore. Its like Swaggert or the guy out in Colorado doing meth and having gay sex or Pat Ropertson. I know no man is perfect but how they do some of the things they do I just don't know. As immoral as I am I am better than that

n_ogden
11-15-2006, 10:07 PM
Sure why not. Seems to me peoples views on religion are decided by where you were born. If you are born into a Mormon family most likely you are going to be Mormon. Born into Baptist most likely thats what you will be and believe. Catholic family catholic. China maybe Buddhism. Syria Mohamed. Do I know who is right? Nope. Am I sure anyone is right? Not sure anymore. A lady I work with who considers herself a super Christian would like to nuke the Arabs out of existence. Arabs would like to nuke us out of existences. When I see Catholic priests molesting boys it makes me wonder. Of course the same could be said about Baptist or Church of God or whoever. The prisons are full of them. It sure tests your faith.

It is a great big beautiful universe that I feel someone or something created. But with all the killing going on in the name of Religion I just don't know anymore. Its like Swaggert or the guy out in Colorado doing meth and having gay sex or Pat Ropertson. I know no man is perfect but how they do some of the things they do I just don't know. As immoral as I am I am better than that


Wormster, I like how you explained that :-)

Bull Dog
11-21-2006, 12:29 PM
Its been shown to me that mormans are not christians. There belifes are not othodox and conflict with the bible. The bible is the never canging word of God. How can they just make it up as they go along. Read the last chapter of the bible and you will see what it says about those who add to the word of god. If one studies what they believe concerning Christ the devil salvation you will know they are a cult. Now this may sound like I think I know all about the word of God but i dont. However i know enough to tell the real thing from the fake. I always say the word of God is like that plub line we use to straighten a pole it dont lie!

CenterPointEX
11-28-2006, 07:41 PM
Hey CP.
I will not lie to you, I am a Latter Day Saint aka Mormon.
So you would like to know if Mormons are Christian's or not.... we read the Book of Mormon, but we also read the bible...King James verison,.

We believe in Jesus Christ. Our true church name is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"...

In the bible, James 1:5-6 quote "If any of you lack wisdom, let him as of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given to him."

Anyways, CP, I personally don't have a problem with other religions,

And if you have a problem or question with my religion, don't be affraid to ask..

Ok, ask I will. You say you believe in Jesus Christ?

To play the devils advocate, ... I could say that, " I believe in Jesus Christ.
I know that Jesus Christ is a little green man and he lives in a hobbit hole named Moroni on the planet mars. Once every two thousand years he rides the comet Bologna to Earth, hops off and monkeys with the gene pools, and the weather patterns, then sails back to mars on his anti gravity ship constructed from dead sea muck. This has been revealed to me by the Spirit of Joseph Smith, whom I testify is a true prophet. I believe in and am a follower of Jesus Christ my Lord. I invite you to pray about this yourself to see if it is true.

Now, after I said this, no one could argue from this statement that I was not a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. But, One, from this statement, could argue that I was not a follower of the Jesus of the Bible. Clearly the Bible does not support the above belief. To which I would reply, "Well the Bible does support my belief as it is translated correctly." At this point the Bible as translated by me, could say whatever I decided it did, and no one could argue with me. Because I, and only I hold the key to the correct translation.

I read a Parrallel Bible which has four translations side by side. Including King James. Each of these were translated from copies of the origional manuscripts, in the origional languages by teams of men who understand both the origional languages and the language into which it is being translated.

Joseph had no knowledge of the origional languages, yet he added to and took away from scripture as he studied and rewrote the King James Bible.

Mormons claim that anyone who is not a Mormon, is not a follower of Jesus Christ.

Let me ask another question since you will not clearly answer the question, "Are Mormons Christians."

Jesus asked this question of his Disciples and they answered correctly.

"Who do you say that Jesus Christ is?" "Do Mormons define Jesus in the same way Christians do?"

By the Way Muslims believe in Jesus Christ, "They know that he was simply a man, who also happened to be a great teacher. Nothing more nothing less. Muslims believe in Jesus, does that make them Christians?

n_ogden
11-28-2006, 09:57 PM
I believe in Jesus Christ.

No matter how you worship, you will still end up in the same place.

"Mormons claim that anyone who is not a Mormon, is not a follower of Jesus Christ."
-who the hell said that?

You also seem to be a little anti-mormon. Sorry to hear that man.
You obviously want to protest my beliefs as a mormon, I won't protest yours.

CenterPointEX
11-28-2006, 10:28 PM
Ok let me rephrase myself... I am not a Mormon hater. I love Mormons. I pray for every Mormon I meet.

You can not deny that Mormon teach that if you are not babtised Morman, you don't stand a chance. Thats why Mormans go to the temple to get baptised for thier dead relatives.

The Mormons believe that those who are not Mormon will spend eternity in the lowest level of three levels of Heaven akin to Hell but not the outer darkness. Which is the Mormons worst fear....

The Moman church has in the past taught, that ADam was infact, God the Father, who created this earth. They have retreated from this position for good reason, but none the less they in the past taught it as gospel truth.

I asked for answer the question,

"according to Mormon Scripture Who and what is Jesus."

"Do Mormons answer the question of "who is Jesus" in the same manor that Christians do?

Is Jesus a little green man who lives in a hobbit hole on Mars?

or is Jesus

as the Mormons define him... just a man, the Spirit brother of Lucifer, the Son of a Heavenly Father and Mother, the same heavenly Mother and Father who had sex and and conceived us as Spirit Children before we were given bodies and sent to Earth to work out our salvation? A salvation that must be worked out to prove ourselves worthy... negating the sufficiency of Jesus's sacrifice?

or is Jesus as he said he was... God Incarnate, Fully God, and Fully Man, being of one substance with the Father. He who lived a perfect sinless life as only God could... He in whom there was no Sin, took on the wage for our Sins which is death... Whose sacrifice should we chose to accept it makes us worthy to enter into Gods presence for eternity apart from all our good works which are dung as Paul says?

You say,

" No matter how you worship, you will still end up in the same place."

This is a false statement... It can not be true...
If I belive that Jesus is a little green man who lives in a hobbit hole on Mars, and I worship him by commiting PHedophilia with Virgins .. I am certain I will not end up in the same place as a follower of the Biblical Jesus.

When I say, "fully God" I tread on Mormon eggshells.
If you ask a Morman is God a man... the answer is NO! But if you ask them is God an exaulted man the anser is yes...

If you ask a Moman, "is there only one God", they say yes.

If you ask them "are there other Gods" they will say yes.

Confused? They answer this way to blind not only the outsiders, but also to blind Mormans.

When you delve into their doctrine, you find that, "As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may someday be." There are other Gods, but there is only one God which with we have to do."

You can and will not give me a straight answer on any question pertaining to the truth of the Bible. You are trained to speak in circles and jump thru hoops of reason to deny the plain truths of the Bible... because the Bible is only true as "translated correctly." and JOseph Smith who had no training in any of the languages in which the Bible was written is according to you, the only one who has the key to true interpratation. In fact when presented with undenyable truth, the only recourse for a Morman is to bear their testimony... next time you see one bear testimony look closely into their eyes... their pupils will dialate... It is a self hypnosis technique that is learned at "Fast and testimony" This hypsosis gives them an sense of peace... They mistake this for the Spirit of God speaking truth to them. This technique is the same as that of Yoga/Hinduism...

moose
11-29-2006, 02:12 AM
CP,
If you haven't heard of him, I'm sure you can find him on a station in Texas. John Hagee, Pastor Cornerstone Baptist Church in San Antonio, Texas. If you can catch A rerun, he can explain all you seek with absolute clarity. if no reruns, just drop him a line and he will respond. :) :)

n_ogden
11-29-2006, 06:01 PM
Gotta love the anti's.

n_ogden
11-29-2006, 08:42 PM
CP,

I dunno man. I gotta figure all of this out myself.

I'm still young and I don't take religion as serious as I should. I just ain't ready for "commitment" yet I guess.

as for me being a mormon, who knows, that can change. I ain't sure where I belong yet...as I said above, I'm still young and figuring things out.

If I came off a little hostile, I'm sorry about that man.

Jesus saves.

CenterPointEX
12-05-2006, 07:17 PM
Amen Brother Batts... How often do I get to say that?

When you get ready to know the truth Mr. Ogden, the answer is not very far away..., you see truth is knocking at your door... all you got to do is open the door and let HIm in. How does one do that? Get down on your knees... tell God that you are a sinner and need his help... Tell him you would like to have a relationship with HIm... I have never known anyone to sincerly do this and not have God reveal Himself to them... How exactly does God reveal himself you ask?... Well... there are no words brother that can do justace to the experience... Being immersed in pure, unmitigated infinate love is just the beginning... How does one even begin to define the experience of being Loved?

Orgnizdlbr
12-05-2006, 08:53 PM
You know how I feel about holy rollers and organized religion. But when it comes to comes to 230 years of "IN GOD WE TRUST", I still add it to the Pledge of Allegiance, and see a place for it in America. Just as long as the holy rollers leave well enough alone.

Though you might enjoy the following.

http://angelsmusic.multiply.com/video/item/1

Steve and CP, I have stated on many occasions in threads here what my opinion of the "Establishment Clause" and the "Wall of Seperation" are. That being said, I have no problem with "In God we trust" on my money and every time I say the pledge I use the words "under God". That does not alter my previous stated opinion. BTW, "under God" wasnt in the pledge until 1954.....

CenterPointEX
12-07-2006, 04:01 PM
"Gotta love the anti's."

I am not anti Mormon Mr. Ogden, In the vein that you call me anti Morman, I could also call you anti Christian. Because the Morman case can and does make a case against mainstream Christianity. First and formost in this mantra was Joseph Smith who claims that all of mainstream Christianity is false and apostate. That would make Joseph Smith by your definition anti Christian and therfore Non Christian.

I believe you believe in Joseph Smith as a true prophet and that, the book of Mormon is gospel.

I also; based on the evidence I have studied, believe that your beliefs are based on lies and false prophecies purpetrated by a professional con man.

I have seen evidence that, over the years the Mormon Church has come to understand that portions of its scripture did not agree with other parts of its scripture. In these cases the teachings have been removed; as in the seventy pages called "lectures on faith" that were removed from "Doctrines and Covenants." IN "Lecutures on Faith" is found the teaching that God the Father is Spirit and not in any form or fashion man. This could not be reconciled with the teaching that Adam and God are the same person.

But a Mormon will not even take a look at the evidence or hard facts. I am not Anti Mormon... I am simply making statements based on the evidence. If I said that the nightly news is colored by Liberalism, That would not make me anti nightly news, It is simply an observation. A Mormon will not consider the truth or nontruth of any observation that does not support Joseph Smiths view. Neither would any of Jim Jones followers consider the clear truths of the true nature of Jim Jones. For to admit that what they belived was false would color them foolish. Intelligent folks who get taken wholesale do not want to even consider that. In the case of Jim Jones, they ended thier lives instead of facing the truth. I am not anti Jim Jones... but I do grieve the loss of his followers to the Evil one... For they, just as Mormans and Christians, are people for whom Jesus gave himself. Mormans believe they will recieve Gods grace if they repent and prove themselves worthy. Problem is; and every Morman will eventualy come to this conclusion, no man can prove himself worthy. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. But alone in what Jesus has done for us can we be saved... if only we to chose to accept this. Anyone who does not believe that Christs sacrifce alone makes us worthy, and Not Our Good Works, will spend eternity in Hell for rejecting this and in doing so rejecting Jesus. Pride makes think we recieve salvation/prove ourselves worthy thru our own good works.,,,

2ndGenHopeful
12-20-2006, 06:23 PM
I say - to each his own. I bet most of us believe that there is some higher being, divine intelligence, God, Allah, Buddah, etc that exists. I believe in God and that Jesus died for all mankind's sins - if you do that's great - if you don't good for you. Who am I to say you are wrong. America was founded on the principal that ..."ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUALLY"... it is what you do with it that matters most.

I also believe that organized "high-profile" churches (Catholicism, Tele-Vangelists of all ilk, and the Jesse Jackson's of the world) are the third political party of the United States. Now, I am NOT saying every individual parish, church, synogogue, etc. falls in lock step with this - I am saying as a whole there are some rotten seeds that sour most people's taste towards religious groups of different denominations than what they themselves believe in.

On the lighter side, we in Missouri decided in 1976 that we should no longer shoot Mormons on sight as the Missouri Executive Order 44 also known as The "Extermination Order" issued on October 27, 1838.

Keep your chin up Ogden.

capitolgangster
12-22-2006, 12:45 PM
gotta agree with cp that mormons are not christians. But most christians aren't not "christians" by the standard of John Calvin and Martin Luther who started the protestant reformation. Most christians are psuedo-religious, s.u.v owning, t.v. worshipping corporate-cum swallowing adherents to a politico-economic gospel. It is sad and true.

CenterPointEX
12-23-2006, 10:14 PM
And all those who called themselves apostles were not so... Judas comes to mind. There are the essencials of the Christian Faith which are necessary to adhere to. Most specificly those spelled out in the Apostles Creed. There are elements over which we can divide that are not essencial to our salvation. In essencials Unity... In non essecials Lattitude, in all things Charity.... Lutherans do not say Baptists are not Christian nor vice versa. Faith Alone, "Grace Alone, Christ Alone"... All Christians adhere to this. Those who do not pretty much will not call themselves Christian.

bashlin
12-24-2006, 10:48 PM
scripture says..Jesus Christ is the way and the only way..it also says do not add to or take away for the Bible..Joseph Smith, was just a man..their is no way to argue if they will enter heaven or not...religion is not what it is about..religion will not get you any where in front of God..just because mormans beleive in God and Jesus, dosn't mean they will get into heaven..even satan beleives in God..a christian beleives in Jesus Christ, and him being the only way to God..that is where the name Christian came from..if you add anymore religion to it..than that is what you are..and i don't beleive Joseph Smith is going to help anyone into heaven..put your trust in Jesus Christ..that is a Christian..Christ=Christians...their is no argument to this..either you beleive only in Christ, or you arn't really a Christian..does this kinda make sense..??

"little beaver"
12-24-2006, 11:15 PM
scripture says..Jesus Christ is the way and the only way..it also says do not add to or take away for the Bible..Joseph Smith, was just a man..their is no way to argue if they will enter heaven or not...religion is not what it is about..religion will not get you any where in front of God..just because mormans beleive in God and Jesus, dosn't mean they will get into heaven..even satan beleives in God..a christian beleives in Jesus Christ, and him being the only way to God..that is where the name Christian came from..if you add anymore religion to it..than that is what you are..and i don't beleive Joseph Smith is going to help anyone into heaven..put your trust in Jesus Christ..that is a Christian..Christ=Christians...their is no argument to this..either you beleive only in Christ, or you arn't really a Christian..does this kinda make sense..??

"I'm the way the TRUTH and the LIFE, nobody comes to the Father but through me" and that's what CHRISTMAS is all about. God Bless and have a great 2007.

CenterPointEX
12-25-2006, 10:08 AM
Mormans will argue Bashlin, that the "do not add" referece in Revelation refers only to the book of Revelation. While discussing this with a Morman one day some light was shed on this. He claimed that Joseph did not rewrite the LDS King James version, but merly clairfied obscure swords in it. Joseph did not have working knowledge of greek or hebrew. When Smith clarified something he took the King James and expounded on it. I asked the fella to show me an example. I think the first reference was in Genesis one. When he tried to show me the word clarified, he discovered that 56 verses had been added. After that he bore his testimony and would not go any further on the subject.

CenterPointEX
01-15-2007, 10:34 AM
scripture says..Jesus Christ is the way and the only way... you beleive only in Christ, or you arn't really a Christian..does this kinda make sense..?? You hit the nail Bashlin... so did I, and for that we are repentant. God have mercy on us...

CenterPointEX
03-12-2007, 11:07 PM
LIneTrash, you drove any nails lately?

wormy
03-17-2007, 08:53 PM
Sure why not. Seems to me peoples views on religion are decided by where you were born. If you are born into a Mormon family most likely you are going to be Mormon. Born into Baptist most likely thats what you will be and believe. Catholic family catholic. China maybe Buddhism. Syria Mohamed. Do I know who is right? Nope. Am I sure anyone is right? Not sure anymore. A lady I work with who considers herself a super Christian would like to nuke the Arabs out of existence. Arabs would like to nuke us out of existences. When I see Catholic priests molesting boys it makes me wonder. Of course the same could be said about Baptist or Church of God or whoever. The prisons are full of them. It sure tests your faith.

It is a great big beautiful universe that I feel someone or something created. But with all the killing going on in the name of Religion I just don't know anymore. Its like Swaggert or the guy out in Colorado doing meth and having gay sex or Pat Ropertson. I know no man is perfect but how they do some of the things they do I just don't know. As immoral as I am I am better than that

Any comment CP

CenterPointEX
03-20-2007, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by wormy http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=24543#post24543)

Sure why not. Seems to me peoples views on religion are decided by where you were born... If you are born in China maybe Buddhism... Any comment CP? Well first off Wormy, not TRUE! Case in Point are two glaring albatrosses... If you are born in China maybe Budhism? In Africa maybe Voodoo or Ancestor worship of some sort? Not!, Not!, and Not!... Faith in Jesus Christ is growing faster in these countries than anywhere else in the world... So much so that the average Lutheran is 22 year old black female... 10,000 a day in China are coming to faith in Jeus Christ.


But with all the killing going on in the name of Religion I just don't know anymore. Pray tell Wormy, who has been killed in the name of Jesus Christ? Christianity teaches... and it is the only faith that teaches this... Love your enemy... pray for them that persacute you... treat them with dignity. Enemy combatants do not fear being captured by such an adversary... They know when they surrender to American troops they will be fed and taken care of. Wormy, yes some of our troops have not abided by American Standards and treated enemy combatants with indignity, but they are an abberation to the rule rather than the norm... Such it is with Men who use the Pulpit as a cover to do evil... Wolves in Sheeps clothing are not unique to Christianity, nor is Christianity immune to them. There are bad apples in the American basket, but they do not by any stretch of the imagination represent America. Likewise there are bad apples in the Christian basket.

Love your neighbor as yourself...

Greater love hath no man than that he lay his life down for another....

Those are the marching orders for only one Faith Wormy... followers of Jesus Christ.

Meat
03-21-2007, 01:22 AM
Thats true 10k a day are converting in China but luckily they are coming to their senses later that evening.Be safe

Dave@PSE&G
03-21-2007, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by wormy http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=24543#post24543)
Well first off Wormy, not TRUE! Case in Point are two glaring albatrosses... If you are born in China maybe Budhism? In Africa maybe Voodoo or Ancestor worship of some sort? Not!, Not!, and Not!... Faith in Jesus Christ is growing faster in these countries than anywhere else in the world... So much so that the average Lutheran is 22 year old black female... 10,000 a day in China are coming to faith in Jeus Christ.

Pray tell Wormy, who has been killed in the name of Jesus Christ? Christianity teaches... and it is the only faith that teaches this... Love your enemy... pray for them that persacute you... treat them with dignity. Enemy combatants do not fear being captured by such an adversary... They know when they surrender to American troops they will be fed and taken care of. Wormy, yes some of our troops have not abided by American Standards and treated enemy combatants with indignity, but they are an abberation to the rule rather than the norm... Such it is with Men who use the Pulpit as a cover to do evil... Wolves in Sheeps clothing are not unique to Christianity, nor is Christianity immune to them. There are bad apples in the American basket, but they do not by any stretch of the imagination represent America. Likewise there are bad apples in the Christian basket.

Love your neighbor as yourself...

Greater love hath no man than that he lay his life down for another....

Those are the marching orders for only one Faith Wormy... followers of Jesus Christ.

CP, the question was about all the killing in the name of religion, and you immediately start talking up Christianity and it's positive virtues. What were the Crusades? I'm no scholar, but weren't a few drops of blood shed in the name of Christianity, even if done so in retalliation against an oppressor. I believe it was the Turks, correct? I think it's safe to say that the orgins of EVERY war ever fought ANYWHERE can be traced back to religion in some way, shape or form.

CenterPointEX
03-22-2007, 05:37 AM
origionaly posted by the Wormster
Wormster, What were the Crusades? I'm no scholar... Ok... a lot of Wars were fought in the name of Religion... WW2 was fought in the name of the "Religion of "Evolution". We stopped Natzi aggression and reclaimed the territory they took by the Sword\Gun. About 90 percent of the combatants in WWII were Christians. They fought the Evil of the Evolutionist Adolf Hitler. Does that make WWII a religios war? I am thinking not! It was simply "Just" War if there is such a thing... Wormster if there is no such thing as a "True Religion" then there is no such thing as right and wrong. But Wormster, if there is a such a thing as absolute right and wrong, then the standard that defines this right and wrong by necessity is a faith... It must be so because right and wrong is something that is not a scientific fact, but rather the opinion of the collective population and nothing else... if there is no true God that is... But if there is a God then the standard is measured by Him... In any event it is understood by faith and nothing else... thus you are in a sense correct Wormster.... All Wars are fought in the name of Religion. The Crusades were about stopping Muslim aggression and reclaiming territory he had aquirred.

Dave@PSE&G
03-22-2007, 10:59 AM
origionaly posted by the Wormster Ok... a lot of Wars were fought in the name of Religion... WW2 was fought in the name of the "Religion of "Evolution". We stopped Natzi aggression and reclaimed the territory they took by the Sword\Gun. About 90 percent of the combatants in WWII were Christians. They fought the Evil of the Evolutionist Adolf Hitler. Does that make WWII a religios war? I am thinking not! It was simply "Just" War if there is such a thing... Wormster if there is no such thing as a "True Religion" then there is no such thing as right and wrong. But Wormster, if there is a such a thing as absolute right and wrong, then the standard that defines this right and wrong by necessity is a faith... It must be so because right and wrong is something that is not a scientific fact, but rather the opinion of the collective population and nothing else... if there is no true God that is... But if there is a God then the standard is measured by Him... In any event it is understood by faith and nothing else... thus you are in a sense correct Wormster.... All Wars are fought in the name of Religion. The Crusades were about stopping Muslim aggression and reclaiming territory he had aquirred.

CP, it was actually me who asked about the Crusades. Though I agree with some of your points, I disagree with others. WWII was also a war against Jews (a German war against Jews, actually), we came to their aid. Back to the crusades; it was a war against Muslim aggression. Which was an attempt by the Turks to spread Islam around the world to make the Earth's population Muslim. Fortunately for us, they didn't get too far. Every war is fought about religion, regardless of who starts it. One can argue that the current war in the middle east isn't about religion, but if it isn't about religion, what is it about? American aggression? Ok, to a point. It started with radical Islamist acts of terror on 9-11, and meandered into Iraq. Who is setting off roadside bombs, girl scout troops? They're radical extremist Muslims. Or if you hate Bush, they're called freedom fighters. Whatever.
Right and wrong, good and evil, blah, blah, blah. I don't think society knows the difference anymore. When I was a kid, you didn't scream "fire" in a crowded theater. That was wrong. You didn't steal, that was wrong. In today's world, society is a free for all. We've pandered to a whole generation of kids who don't give a shit about anything but themselves. They don't value life, or liberty, as we once did. They shoot up the schools. They mug old ladies, and for what? Nice rims on their cars. And when these kids get busted, their parents dip into a deep pool of lawyers (ugh!) to find a loophole and get them out of trouble, or plea the case down. We haven't forgotten right or wrong. We've discarded it. Is it due to lack of religion? Maybe, maybe not. You don't read about alter boys robbing liquor stores, yet priests are being arrested on occasion. So, how do we fix it?

CenterPointEX
03-22-2007, 11:19 PM
WWII was also a war against Jews...One can argue that the current war in the middle east isn't about religion, but if it isn't about religion, what is it about?...That was wrong. You didn't steal, that was wrong. In today's world, society is a free for all... We haven't forgotten right or wrong. We've discarded it. Is it due to lack of religion? Maybe, maybe not...So, how do we fix it? We fix it by turning back to this countrys roots... Faith in the creator who endowed us with certain unalienable rights. We who are still faithful and believe there is such a thing as absolute right and wrong go to our knees and began earnestly to pray that God would send America another wake up call that her leaders would again go to God for direction as did our founding fathers. Pray that the Ten Commandments would no longer be outlawed from being part of a school curriculem. Pray this this nations churches would turn back to Gods Word and cherish and respect it again as the true inerrant word of God rather than dis it as no longer relavant to todays world... Yes, my friend pray, pray, pray. Specificly for the President. It is tough to find a squeaky clean man any more... The bar seems to have been lowered.

The middle east Wars are all about Religion... The Stated and Ratified goal of Islam is to bring all of the World under the umbrella of Islam... By Sword or any other means necessary. In the tradition of the Koran, the end by all means justifies the means. "It is better to kill Christians in the name of Allah than to sit and worship him." These are the marching orders of the Muslims... are a far cry form the pray for you enemies, "love your neighbor as yourself" battle cry of the followers of Jesus Christ.

wormy
03-23-2007, 10:14 AM
Sure why not. Seems to me peoples views on religion are decided by where you were born... If you are born in China maybe Buddhism... Any comment CP?

Well first off Wormy, not TRUE! Case in Point are two glaring albatrosses... If you are born in China maybe Budhism? In Africa maybe Voodoo or Ancestor worship of some sort? Not!, Not!, and Not!... Faith in Jesus Christ is growing faster in these countries than anywhere else in the world... So much so that the average Lutheran is 22 year old black female... 10,000 a day in China are coming to faith in Jeus Christ.
10,000 a day in China. Where did that figure come from? Do you have a comparison to how many are being born into Chinas religion


Pray tell Wormy, who has been killed in the name of Jesus Christ? Christianity teaches... and it is the only faith that teaches this... Love your enemy... pray for them that persacute you... treat them with dignity. Enemy combatants do not fear being captured by such an adversary... They know when they surrender to American troops they will be fed and taken care of. Wormy, yes some of our troops have not abided by American Standards and treated enemy combatants with indignity, but they are an abberation to the rule rather than the norm... Such it is with Men who use the Pulpit as a cover to do evil... Wolves in Sheeps clothing are not unique to Christianity, nor is Christianity immune to them. There are bad apples in the American basket, but they do not by any stretch of the imagination represent America. Likewise there are bad apples in the Christian basket.

I did not mention our troops, but the fellow who brought up the crusades shoots your reasponse out of the water. Now as far as the men using the pulpit as cover....seems to be alot of them. Smokin meth, molesting kids, multiple marriages, stealing, lying, hanging with prostitutes.I am suppose to trust my kids with these people? America is going to hell in a handbasket and religion is close to leading the pack. When I worked in substations there was 8 of us. 2 of them carried bibles to work everyday and looked down their noses at us. They were the 2 that screwed around on their wifes. Some example....we called them sneakin deacons

Dave@PSE&G
03-23-2007, 08:18 PM
We fix it by turning back to this countrys roots... Faith in the creator who endowed us with certain unalienable rights. We who are still faithful and believe there is such a thing as absolute right and wrong go to our knees and began earnestly to pray that God would send America another wake up call that her leaders would again go to God for direction as did our founding fathers. Pray that the Ten Commandments would no longer be outlawed from being part of a school curriculem. Pray this this nations churches would turn back to Gods Word and cherish and respect it again as the true inerrant word of God rather than dis it as no longer relavant to todays world... Yes, my friend pray, pray, pray. Specificly for the President. It is tough to find a squeaky clean man any more... The bar seems to have been lowered.

The middle east Wars are all about Religion... The Stated and Ratified goal of Islam is to bring all of the World under the umbrella of Islam... By Sword or any other means necessary. In the tradition of the Koran, the end by all means justifies the means. "It is better to kill Christians in the name of Allah than to sit and worship him." These are the marching orders of the Muslims... are a far cry form the pray for you enemies, "love your neighbor as yourself" battle cry of the followers of Jesus Christ.
You're probably right. 50 years ago, religion of some sort was at the center of most American's lives. It's easy to see that today by looking around in church and count the senior citizens. I hate to say it, but I think our society today in America is too far gone to turn back to the church. I speak from experience, not having religious teaching as a child, it's a hard pill for me to swallow as an adult. My son, 9, is being raised Catholic. My wife is Catholic and has been setting him through the "paces" of religious training. He buys into it. It's going to take something pretty fantastic to happen to make the masses see things a little differently. It's like the line from the Billy Joel song "... I'd rather laugh with the sinner's than cry with the saints. The sinner's have much more fun, yeah only the good die young".

CenterPointEX
03-24-2007, 07:41 AM
... the fellow who brought up the crusades shoots your response out of the water. Now as far as the men using the pulpit as cover....seems to be a lot of them. Smokin meth, molesting kids, multiple marriages, stealing, lying, hanging with prostitutes.I am suppose to trust my kids with these people? When I worked in substations there was 8 of us. 2 of them carried bibles to work everyday and looked down their noses at us. They were the 2 that screwed around on their wifes. Some example....we called them sneakin deacons.
I am suppose to trust my kids with these people? Who else are you gonna leave ‘em with Worm? That the bulk of Priests and Pastors are child molesters is bunk. Worm, the Bible teaches that there is an absolute right and wrong. NAMBA teaches that having sex with young boys is right. If it feels good do it. The Bible teaches sex out side of marriage is wrong. The Bible teaches marriage is one man one woman. It teaches same sex acts are an abomination. Now tell me who you gonna trust your kid with? A NAMBA scout leader or school teacher or a Christian Sunday school teacher?

....As for the Crusades, While begun under the guise of Christianity, they were not carried out with Marching orders sanctioned by the Bible. Muslim aggression was in its third century of murderous advance. Since Islam’s seventh century genesis, they had been advancing Islam by the Sword. They had taken over all of the middle east and threatened the west. Threatened by their advance Pope Urban sought to raise up an army to push them back. In order to motivate his army, he promised forgiveness of Sins and Heaven for those who for those who partook in the Crusade against Evil/Islam… This was totally unbiblical.. For Salvation comes not by any act or deed of our own, but rather thru the finished work of Christ on the Cross… There is nothing in the Bible about earning Heaven thru dieing in a battle against evil. Anyhow the response overwhelmed Pope Urban. The respondents were peasants, crooks, scally wags etc. They were ill trained and ill equipped. They basically turned into a roaming mob of misfits. While the goal of liberating the Christians in the middle east was a noble one, the Crusaders fell short of that purpose degenerating into wackoness… Their goal in gaining Heaven thru service was then as it is now futile, unbiblical, and disorienting… But then Pope Urban was a Pope, and supposedly the mutterings of the Pope were considered then and sometimes now as the Word of God. Again this was then and is now UnBiblical. All of the New Testament came from eye witnesses of the risen Christ. No, Pope that I know of is such. Therefor the Popes do no utter infallibility... unless they are quoting the Bible...This is why we must guard the Word as Truth… That we would not err in the vein of Pope Urban.

n4cer2
03-24-2007, 09:00 AM
O.K., to all of you out there let me start out by saying that I am not perfect. There is only one who is, was, and will always will be perfect, and that is Jesus Christ. I just have a tendency to open my mouth and state the truth as it has been taught to me.
Let me tackle the issue of why all the references to GOD in the American society. It is a well known fact that our forefathers based this country, and its constitution on the bible. Heck, if I remember right, 90% of the signers of the constitution were bible believing christians. They new that GOD is needed in every aspect of this country's affairs to remain as great as we are. That is why all of the reminders about GOD, so that we would not forget HIM. Unfortunately, satan is doing a good job convincing Americans to forget GOD. There is the reason why our country is deteriorating as much as it is. We take the bible out of our schools, and look what they have become. And these children are the future of our country. I feel that until we start teaching the bible in schools again, this country will continue to deteriorate. I am not good with that, and I hope you are not either.
Now, as far as who is a christian and who is not. I do know that the bible is the living word of GOD and that we are to live by the bible. I also know that the only way you will know what the scripture truly means with a 100% accuracy is to learn how to read it in its original Hebrew and Greek. Now there are many translations of the original bible out there, some good and some bad. They are still the bible. The book of morman is not the bible. Mormons say they believe in both GOD's bible and the book of mormon, and that is fine as long as you put GOD's word first. Here is the problem with that. You cannot follow GOD's word and also follow another book, because if you follow GOD's word, the other books will be going against GOD's word. Now what do you do? This is why the mormons have so many problems. The book of mormon contradicts what the holy bible says. If all mormons would read and follow the holy bible, they could not follow the book of mormon. I do not mean to follow the holy bible as you want to follow it, there is another problem to be addressed later. I mean to follow the holy bible word for word. O.K., enough out of my big mouth for now. You all have a good day.

PA BEN
03-24-2007, 11:28 AM
Declaration of the
INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS

Our cause is the cause of human justice, human rights, human security. We refuse, and will always refuse, to condone or tolerate dictatorship or oppression of any kind. We will find and expel from our midst any who might attempt to destroy, by subversion, all that we stand for. This Brotherhood will continue to oppose communism, Nazism or any other subversive "'ism." We will support our God, our Nations, our Union. :rolleyes:

wormy
03-24-2007, 12:37 PM
Who else are you gonna leave ‘em with Worm? That the bulk of Priests and Pastors are child molesters is bunk. Worm, the Bible teaches that there is an absolute right and wrong. NAMBA teaches that having sex with young boys is right. If it feels good do it. The Bible teaches sex out side of marriage is wrong. The Bible teaches marriage is one man one woman. It teaches same sex acts are an abomination. Now tell me who you gonna trust your kid with? A NAMBA scout leader or school teacher or a Christian Sunday school teacher?

I did not say the bulk of them are. But there is a bunch. I know a little more about it than you. I hate to admit it but my preacher brother is in jail over it. Got 30 years for rubbing on a cops kid that was his niece. No insertion of any type. They should all get at least that long.

Orgnizdlbr
03-24-2007, 12:38 PM
O.K., to all of you out there let me start out by saying that I am not perfect. There is only one who is, was, and will always will be perfect, and that is Jesus Christ. I just have a tendency to open my mouth and state the truth as it has been taught to me.
Let me tackle the issue of why all the references to GOD in the American society. It is a well known fact that our forefathers based this country, and its constitution on the bible. Heck, if I remember right, 90% of the signers of the constitution were bible believing christians. They new that GOD is needed in every aspect of this country's affairs to remain as great as we are. That is why all of the reminders about GOD, so that we would not forget HIM. Unfortunately, satan is doing a good job convincing Americans to forget GOD. There is the reason why our country is deteriorating as much as it is. We take the bible out of our schools, and look what they have become. And these children are the future of our country. I feel that until we start teaching the bible in schools again, this country will continue to deteriorate. I am not good with that, and I hope you are not either.


What is your view of the "wall of seperation"? What is your take on the First Amendment to The U.S. Constitution?

PA BEN
03-25-2007, 08:37 AM
No more, no less. Mormans follow a religion made by a man. Born again Christians follow the religion made by God, and follow the word of God. The New Testatment is the New Covenant with His Church.

Hebrews 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"

swamp quote: Look at every political "hot topic". Abortion? Gay? Adultry? Poligamy? Child porn? The list is endless.
Now look at the "Religions" that...say all are wrong, or some are wrong...
Who's right?
swamp? Let me ask you this? Deep down in your heart which one of these do you feel is right?:)

LostArt
03-25-2007, 10:14 AM
Not a one of em. I know at least a couple of religions that think adultury and gay marriage is Ok though.

Go figure...."religion"....:p

Hey, hey, hey!!! It ain't just "religion" that thinks those sins are "okay".

But, it seems that every part of the world, party, religion is condoning many issues that our forefathers wouldn't abide.

Almost anything and everything goes these days.

PA BEN
03-25-2007, 09:36 PM
Religious? People call me Religous, I call myself a Christian, a sinner set free. Not perfect just trying to do my best with Gods help. You can be a religious smoker, a religious drinker, a religious under ground lineman etc., etc., ;)

CenterPointEX
03-28-2007, 08:05 PM
Religion, "Belief"....It forms our beliefs, or lack there of, it forms our politics, by the politician that "Believes" as we do...
"Religious Belief", ALL the different ones, EACH professing to be the "Truth". And hay,...when ya challenge a mans belief, he goes to war. It's a "War for HIS God!"...

(They call me Swamp), and "My God, is Right, your god is wrong." I must Convert you to "My God". :D :D

The REAL "Truth" here is, Every one is Right. According to "THEIR" Belief....and YOU are wrong. Period.:p Italics added.

Swamp, like I said before, You have a belief, your belief system is a religion. Your religion as near as I can glean from your posts is "Secular Humanism" sprinkled with tenants of Hinduism. None the less you are faithful to your belief. Is it an absolute "Truth" Swamp that all religions/faiths are right? Can all faiths... be true at the same time? Swamp, can Hinduism, Islam ism, Mormonism, Buddhism, and Christianity, all be equally true at the same time? Please Swamp put your cards on the table... which of these do you think have some merit, and which ones do you think are false. OGB, you talk a lot of ying yang, put your cards on the table for us if you would. All of you know where I stand. But most of you do not stand solidly on anything. So, here we go. True False... whats your belief? Lost Art you gotta show yours also...

Jehovah's Witnessism ................. True........ or............ False

Mormonism ................................ True........ or............ False

Christianity................................ True........ or............ False

Hinduism..................................... True........ or............ False

Buddhism.................................... True........ or............ False

Islam.......................................... True........ or............ False

Secular Humanism.......................... True........ or............ False

Evolutionism................................. True........ or............ False
Creation................... ...................True........ or............ False
Jesus lived.................................... True........ or............ False

Jesus rose from dead..................... True........ or............ False

"J" performed miracles..................... True........ or............ False

There is Life after death.................. True........ or............ False

Bible prophesied things that came to pass ... True........ or............ False

Jesus died on a cross .......................... True........ or............ False

Reincarnation .......................................... True........ or............ False

LostArt
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
ME????? When was I thrown in here??? http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif You know my view. I'm not changing it. **sighs** Okay. I'll post my answers. I've yet to deny Jesus.


Jehovah's Witnessism ................. ............ False

Mormonism ................................ ........... False

Christianity................................ True.......

Hinduism.......................................... ...... False

Buddhism.................................... ........... False

Islam............................................. ....... False

Secular Humanism.......................... I'm not sure what you are asking here. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif

Evolutionism...................................... ..... False
Creation................... ...................True....
Jesus lived.................................... True.......

Jesus rose from dead..................... True.......

"J" performed miracles..................... True........

There is Life after death.................. True........(in another sense...yes)

Bible prophesied things that came to pass ... True........

Jesus died on a cross .......................... True........

Reincarnation .......................................... ......... False

I still have questions concerning some things written in the Bible. I'm not sure if it is for all of us to know or not. But, I don't think that because we have questions and because we question some things written there, that we are doomed to hell. I'm sorry, I don't.

If so, I guess I will join my good buddy Swamp and Georgie. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/doh001.gif

LostArt
03-28-2007, 10:06 PM
Christianity ain't "breedin" fast enough.

And it won't! Seriously....it won't. Christianity will always be scrutinized.

But, what I do know....and what I have seen over the years, is that I understand the animosity. I do. I'm sure I'm not the ONLY one. Even I get frustrated, aggrivated, and actually feel disgusted in those that profess something they aren't or even practicing something they are not living.

However, I do admire those that keep the faith. And those that show it by their actions. Not only with words. It is true, that phrase...."Actions speak louder than words." I think ALL of us can agree with that.

CenterPointEX
03-28-2007, 10:48 PM
Swamp, show your cards, give us an answer... true or false... if you won't answer true or false then we are left to infer some kind of answer from your response... don't beat around the bush... If you don't understand the question study L.A.'s answer format to get an idea of how to answer




(They call me Swamp), and "My God, is Right, your god is wrong." I must Convert you to "My God". :D :D
The REAL "Truth" ...:p Italics added.

Swamp, like I said before, You have a belief, your belief system is a religion. Your religion as near as I can glean from your posts is "Secular Humanism" sprinkled with tenants of Buddhism. None the less you are faithful to your belief. Is it an absolute "Truth" Swamp that all religions/faiths are right? Can all faiths... be true at the same time? Swamp, can Hinduism, Islam ism, Mormonism, Buddhism, and Christianity, all be equally true at the same time? Please Swamp put your cards on the table... which of these do you think have some merit, and which ones do you think are false. OGB, you talk a lot of ying yang, put your cards on the table for us if you would. All of you know where I stand. But most of you do not stand solidly on anything. So, here we go. True False... whats your belief? Lost Art you gotta show yours also...

Jehovah's Witnessism ................. True........ or............ False

Mormonism ................................ True........ or............ False

Christianity................................ True........ or............ False

Hinduism..................................... True........ or............ False

Buddhism.................................... True........ or............ False

Islam.......................................... True........ or............ False

Secular Humanism.......................... True........ or............ False

Evolutionism................................. True........ or............ False
Creation................... ...................True........ or............ False
Jesus lived.................................... True........ or............ False

Jesus rose from dead..................... True........ or............ False

"J" performed miracles..................... True........ or............ False

There is Life after death.................. True........ or............ False

Bible prophesied things that came to pass ... True........ or............ False

Jesus died on a cross .......................... True........ or............ False

Reincarnation .......................................... True........ or............ False

LostArt
03-29-2007, 06:38 AM
Lost Art you gotta show yours also...



http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/post1030.gif

Heh. I answered mine CP. What? You don't have anything to ADD to what I posted CP?

Orgnizdlbr
03-29-2007, 07:20 AM
Italics added.

Swamp, like I said before, You have a belief, your belief system is a religion. Your religion as near as I can glean from your posts is "Secular Humanism" sprinkled with tenants of Hinduism. None the less you are faithful to your belief. Is it an absolute "Truth" Swamp that all religions/faiths are right? Can all faiths... be true at the same time? Swamp, can Hinduism, Islam ism, Mormonism, Buddhism, and Christianity, all be equally true at the same time? Please Swamp put your cards on the table... which of these do you think have some merit, and which ones do you think are false. OGB, you talk a lot of ying yang, put your cards on the table for us if you would. All of you know where I stand. But most of you do not stand solidly on anything. So, here we go. True False... whats your belief? Lost Art you gotta show yours also...

Jehovah's Witnessism ................. True........ or............ False

Mormonism ................................ True........ or............ False

Christianity................................ True........ or............ False

Hinduism..................................... True........ or............ False

Buddhism.................................... True........ or............ False

Islam.......................................... True........ or............ False

Secular Humanism.......................... True........ or............ False

Evolutionism................................. True........ or............ False
Creation................... ...................True........ or............ False
Jesus lived.................................... True........ or............ False

Jesus rose from dead..................... True........ or............ False

"J" performed miracles..................... True........ or............ False

There is Life after death.................. True........ or............ False

Bible prophesied things that came to pass ... True........ or............ False

Jesus died on a cross .......................... True........ or............ False

Reincarnation .......................................... True........ or............ False

True or false now???? C'mon CP, we've been talking long enough for you to know I'm a Roman Catholic.

PA BEN
03-29-2007, 08:56 AM
Romans 9:33just as it is written,
"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."


Jesus is the Light, All these other religions don’t except the Light, and all is ok as long as we say so. Lift a rock and see the bugs scatter because of the Light. The reason people hate Christians is because Jesus’ Light exposes the sins of man.:eek:

LostArt
03-29-2007, 05:38 PM
True or false now???? C'mon CP, we've been talking long enough for you to know I'm a Roman Catholic.


http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool087.gif Ya dag gum sinner! Okay, YOU know I'm pullin' your chains Georgie, but I just could resist! :D



Oh and I've been waiting to use this smilie Georgie......


http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/pope.gif

Ain't he cute? Heh. WHAT??? Okay, I'll try and be good, but sometimes you just gotta lightin' up. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/doh001.gif

Orgnizdlbr
03-29-2007, 08:23 PM
http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool087.gif Ya dag gum sinner! Okay, YOU know I'm pullin' your chains Georgie, but I just could resist! :D



Oh and I've been waiting to use this smilie Georgie......


http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/pope.gif

Ain't he cute? Heh. WHAT??? Okay, I'll try and be good, but sometimes you just gotta lightin' up. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/doh001.gif

LMAO....great smiley!!!!!

CenterPointEX
03-29-2007, 09:34 PM
OGB, You know I know you are Roman Catholic... but from our conversations I have gleaned, that though you acknowledge RC ism as your heritage, you do not necessarily espouse absolute faith in its tenants. OGB, you went to to trouble of reposting the survey, are you chicken; as is Swamp, to put your cards on the table? Sorry about the double jeopardy L.A. I must of been thinking of a previous thread when I re-"posed" the question of you... Come on OGB, show us yours... Swamp, you have spewed some hard core opinions on these stalwarts of theology in the past. I am not asking you to make a decision. I am asking you Swamp, "In your honest opinion are the following based on truth or are they made up B.S.?" Swamp, I can dig up ;if I must, your opinions on some of these to show that you have made a decision as to the status of their authenticity. For instance Swamp, you have inferred that Jesus did not rise from the dead. So we know you believe that one to be false. OGB, you have inferred that the Bible is not unnecessarily absolute truth. That position is not in line with RC'ism. "Not Unnecessarily" now that phrase reeks if Swampism...:confused:

Jehovah's Witnessism ................. True........ or............ False

Mormonism ................................ True........ or............ False

Christianity................................ True........ or............ False

Hinduism..................................... True........ or............ False

Buddhism.................................... True........ or............ False

Islam.......................................... True........ or............ False

Secular Humanism.......................... True........ or............ False

Evolutionism................................. True........ or............ False
Creation................... ...................True........ or............ False
Jesus lived.................................... True........ or............ False

Jesus rose from dead..................... True........ or............ False

"J" performed miracles..................... True........ or............ False

There is Life after death.................. True........ or............ False

Bible prophesied things that came to pass ... True........ or............ False

Jesus died on a cross .......................... True........ or............ False

Reincarnation .......................................... True........ or............ False[/quote]

LostArt
03-29-2007, 09:43 PM
LMAO....great smiley!!!!!

Heh. I thought so. I was just waiting to post it! :D

Okay....since CP is through with me, I'm gonna scram. You guys be good!

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/transport002.gif

CenterPointEX
03-29-2007, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by PA BEN http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=29030#post29030)

...Jesus is the Light, All these other religions don’t except the Light, and all is ok as long as we say so. Lift a rock and see the bugs scatter because of the Light. The reason people hate Christians is because Jesus’ Light exposes the sins of man.:eek:

I reckon you got a CenterPoint there Pa... In that light Swamps response theology makes perfect sense... When Swamp says all religions are the same he speaks absolute truth from the point of view that originates from darkness... Cause a blind man speaks a Truth when he makes the statement that all men look alike.
__________________

Orgnizdlbr
03-29-2007, 10:26 PM
OGB, You know I know you are Roman Catholic... but from our conversations I have gleaned, that though you acknowledge RC ism as your heritage, you do not necessarily espouse absolute faith in its tenants. OGB, you went to to trouble of reposting the survey, are you chicken; as is Swamp, to put your cards on the table? Sorry about the double jeopardy L.A. I must of been thinking of a previous thread when I re-"posed" the question of you... Come on OGB, show us yours... Swamp, you have spewed some hard core opinions on these stalwarts of theology in the past. I am not asking you to make a decision. I am asking you Swamp, "In your honest opinion are the following based on truth or are they made up B.S.?" Swamp, I can dig up ;if I must, your opinions on some of these to show that you have made a decision as to the status of their authenticity. For instance Swamp, you have inferred that Jesus did not rise from the dead. So we know you believe that one to be false. OGB, you have inferred that the Bible is not unnecessarily absolute truth. That position is not in line with RC'ism. "Not Unnecessarily" now that phrase reeks if Swampism...:confused:

[/quote]

As Swamp correctly pointed out in his reply, true or false answers are inadaquate.

But, simply in an attempt to satisfy your curiosity, the questions you most likely would be interested in are as follows:

Jesus lived = True
Jesus died on the cross = True
Jesus rose from the dead = True

Satisfied??

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/fight001.gif

LostArt
03-29-2007, 10:39 PM
As Swamp correctly pointed out in his reply, true or false answers are inadaquate.

But, simply in an attempt to satisfy your curiosity, the questions you most likely would be interested in are as follows:

Jesus lived = True
Jesus died on the cross = True
Jesus rose from the dead = True

Satisfied??

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/fight001.gif

Wrong smilie Georgie! It's THIS one.....http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/postx9x9.gif

BTW.....http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool019.gif


Oh.....was Mary a virgin Georgie?

Orgnizdlbr
03-29-2007, 10:43 PM
Wrong smilie Georgie! It's THIS one.....http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/postx9x9.gif

BTW.....http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool019.gif


Oh.....was Mary a virgin Georgie?

Yes she was.....

LostArt
03-29-2007, 10:49 PM
Yes she was.....

Holy Cow! Ya scared me Georgie!!! I didn't think you were still here! LOL!

Oh man. I need to get some sleep eye. The Boss and I are gonna go fishin' in the mornin' and I need to dream of fish so I can ....well, be the woman of fisherkind. Heh. Night!!!

Orgnizdlbr
03-29-2007, 10:52 PM
Holy Cow! Ya scared me Georgie!!! I didn't think you were still here! LOL!

Oh man. I need to get some sleep eye. The Boss and I are gonna go fishin' in the mornin' and I need to dream of fish so I can ....well, be the woman of fisherkind. Heh. Night!!!

Night Grace, good luck fishin!!!

Hey CP, found a picture of ya.....

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/topic003.gif

wudwoker51
03-30-2007, 12:30 AM
What makes a America great is our freedom including the freedom of religion. Unfortunately religious fundamentalism is the root of problems everywhere and none have a monopoly on crazy factions. Catholics (pedophile priests ) Muslims (radicalism) Mormons(polygamy) you can go on and on. I am a believer and religion to me is a deeply personal matter. To each their own!

PA BEN
03-30-2007, 08:46 AM
Matthew 6:22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.:eek:

CenterPointEX
03-30-2007, 12:55 PM
Swamp, I speak metaphorically, The darkness or blindness from which you proclaim truth is not a physical blindness, but a spiritual blindness. Your spiritual eyes are shut tight in a clinched fist, self induced grimace. You categorically refuse to even take a peek. Not even at the logical verifiable facts that surround the life and death of Jesus. For this reason Swamp, you proclaim a truth when you say that all religions worship the same god. In the same mannor as a blind man says that all people look the same. To him who is in darkness... they do. Swamp, if you were physically blind and I posed... Grass is Green......... True or False, in the same vein you could no more have an opinion on whether or not Jesus rose from the dead or if the Virgin Mary was a sinner... So I reckon I owe you an apology Swamp, cause asking a blind man how many fingers I'm holding up is a mean spirited question.

Wud Work, If you are believer in Jesus, then you must know that Jesus taught that it is wrong to keep your faith to yourself... "As you have seen me doing, go thou therefor and do likewise." Should you follow his directive Wudwork, and share the gospel, you will be persecuted. Jesus said you should work... and he also knew if you Wouldwork. Wudwork, there is a glaring problem with your analogy of religious shortcomings.
The book of Mormon does teaches that polygamy is a good thing.
The Koran teaches that "it is better to kill in the name of Allah than to sit and worship."
The Bible teaches that pedophilia is an abomination.
The Bible clearly puts the Pedo Priest in jepordy of salvation... The acts you mentioned in regard to the Muslims and Mormons are rewarded\rewards respectively.
Your post did not make that distinction.


Jesus lived = True
Jesus died on the cross = True
Jesus rose from the dead = TrueOGB, thats a start on showing your cards... It puts into prospective the ideology's we propose to our audience. Since L.A. brought it up, and you responded on the subject of Mary... one more question...

Mary was a sinner.................. True or False


I never said "all religions are the same". Far from it. I said, "All religions have truths". What Truths does Satanism contain Swamp? Maybe you should rethink that statement?

Orgnizdlbr
03-30-2007, 01:34 PM
Swamp, I speak metaphorically, The darkness or blindness from which you proclaim truth is not a physical blindness, but a spiritual blindness. Your spiritual eyes are shut tight in a clinched fist, self induced grimace. You categorically refuse to even take a peek. Not even at the logical verifiable facts that surround the life and death of Jesus. For this reason Swamp, you proclaim a truth when you say that all religions worship the same god. In the same mannor as a blind man says that all people look the same. To him who is in darkness... they do. Swamp, if you were physically blind and I posed... Grass is Green......... True or False, in the same vein you could no more have an opinion on whether or not Jesus rose from the dead or if the Virgin Mary was a sinner... So I reckon I owe you an apology Swamp, cause asking a blind man how many fingers I'm holding up is a mean spirited question.

Wud Work, If you are believer in Jesus, then you must know that Jesus taught that it is wrong to keep your faith to yourself... "As you have seen me doing, go thou therefor and do likewise." Should you follow his directive Wudwork, and share the gospel, you will be persecuted. Jesus said you should work... and he also knew if you Wouldwork. Wudwork, there is a glaring problem with your analogy of religious shortcomings.
The book of Mormon does teaches that polygamy is a good thing.
The Koran teaches that "it is better to kill in the name of Allah than to sit and worship."
The Bible teaches that pedophilia is an abomination.
The Bible clearly puts the Pedo Priest in jepordy of salvation... The acts you mentioned in regard to the Muslims and Mormons are rewarded\rewards respectively.
Your post did not make that distinction.

OGB, thats a start on showing your cards... It puts into prospective the ideology's we propose to our audience. Since L.A. brought it up, and you responded on the subject of Mary... one more question...

Mary was a sinner.................. True or False

What Truths does Satanism contain Swamp? Maybe you should rethink that statement?







No



http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/fock17b.gif

CenterPointEX
03-30-2007, 03:14 PM
OGB, thats a start on showing your cards... It puts into prospective the ideology's we propose to our audience. Since L.A. brought it up, and you responded on the subject of Mary... one more question...

Mary was a sinner.................. True or False
No
OGB, thats the response I expected...
So for all the audience, the Roman Catholic Church, believes that the Virgin Mary was not a sinner, thats the only way they can legitimately pray to her... she was not human but rather some sort of "in between" God and man. Anyone who follows the path of Mary does not need Jesus. Because they like Mary can save themselves... matter of fact, thats the only way one can be saved... your good works will save you the Roman Catholic Church teaches... Now tell me again for what reason did Jesus die? These positions can not be supported with the Bible.
The Bible says Jesus died for everybody who is a sinner. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Mary was the Holy Mother of God... God was born of Mary?
The truth is God/Jesus eternaly existed before Mary. Mary was merely a human tent.
Since Mary was not a sinner according to RC Theology/Tradition, evidently she was not human since the Bible clearly states there was none that did not have sin save Jesus who was both completely God, and completely Man. Because OGB, nor the church can defend this position, their only response is to attack those who breech the subject.

CenterPointEX
03-30-2007, 08:33 PM
Oh, contrare Swampdude, I am able to write the book on secular humanism... You underestimate me Swamp... I am well versed... unlike you... in Mormonism, Judaism, Secular Humanism, Hinduism, Buddhism,... you name it, I have studied the tenants of their faith... Urinetea not discluded...I have taken a peek at all of them Swamp... I understand them... I have come face to face with the truth and can not deny it.

Orgnizdlbr
03-30-2007, 09:10 PM
Mary was a sinner.................. True or False
OGB, thats the response I expected...
So for all the audience, the Roman Catholic Church, believes that the Virgin Mary was not a sinner, thats the only way they can legitimately pray to her... she was not human but rather some sort of "in between" God and man. Anyone who follows the path of Mary does not need Jesus. Because they like Mary can save themselves... matter of fact, thats the only way one can be saved... your good works will save you the Roman Catholic Church teaches... Now tell me again for what reason did Jesus die? These positions can not be supported with the Bible.
The Bible says Jesus died for everybody who is a sinner. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Mary was the Holy Mother of God... God was born of Mary?
The truth is God/Jesus eternaly existed before Mary. Mary was merely a human tent.
Since Mary was not a sinner according to RC Theology/Tradition, evidently she was not human since the Bible clearly states there was none that did not have sin save Jesus who was both completely God, and completely Man. Because OGB, nor the church can defend this position, their only response is to attack those who breech the subject.

Likewise CP, exactly the response I expected, and hoped for. You see, in a thread involving "The wall of seperation" I made a remark that You and people of like mind hope, pray, and lobby with big money to take my right to worship how I see fit away. You and people of like mind want to establish a State religion according to your views. You and people of like mind want to legislate a tithe to your "State" established religeon. You have just proved that unequivically with your last post. The venom spewed from the lips or rather finger tips of a self proclaimed saved Christian are difficult for me to understand. Why such venom for the Catholic Church CP? Did a Priest molest you when you were a child? Did the bullies in the Catholic school yard steal your milk money when you walked by to public school? Unlike you CP, I would defend your right to worship whoever you please, all the while you would trample my rights in the name of Jesus Christ. Shame on you CP, your hatred for the Roman Catholic Church is obvious, I suppose to you it's a very Christian thing to denigrate anothers beliefs.

You see CP, this is America, you can certainly say what you wish, that is the American way. It is also the American way to defend one's freedoms enumerated in the Federal Constitution, I would defend your rights to the end, you would abolish the Catholic Church that I attend, very American of you!!!!! You are exposed......

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/topic003.gif http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass031.gifhttp://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/taz.gif

CenterPointEX
03-30-2007, 11:03 PM
Venom? Am I missing something OGB? I merely spoke the truth about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Now how do you make the leap that I am attacking the Church? The positions of the Church can not be supported by the Bible... They have to use extra Biblical Truths to go where they go... You do not deny this... You are upset because I Denigrate your beliefs?... come now... I know youu are a lineman... Lineman don't have feelings... And where did you get the Idea that I want to force a tithe on anyone? Could you please show me where I even infered that? You won't be able to cause it did not happen. I have said over and over that God does not need nor want your money. God simply seeks a heart that is able to give... If a man grudginly gives to satisfy the law, he does God a greater injustace than if he did not give at all. I also will defend your right to beleive what you want as I would Swamps and Batts... OGB, Christianity is tolerant of the beliefs of men... But the other systems of belief are intolerant of Christianity.... If the Muslims... or the Mormons... or the Secular Humanists ever take majority control of our government then all the others will not be tolerated... Already the Secular Huanists are seeking to rid society of the teachings of the Bible... In Canada Preachers can be thrown in jail for teaching the Bibles stance on homosexuality... How long before this happens in the United States you ask?... It is already happening... They are stil fighting a court case in California to get a Huge Cross removed from a National Cemetary... No OGB, it is not the Christians who want to take away our Freedoms... Freedoms endowed to us by our Creator as stated in our Constitution. The Creator who was known by the framers of the our Constitution...

Its ironic that you claim I would tell you to tithe and tell you where to worship... and you well know, the Roman Catholic Curch tells its parishners exactly those things... It requires them to worship at a specific location...,

CenterPointEX
03-31-2007, 12:39 AM
We are back to the evidence thing Swamp... I studied the evidence... something you don't know a thing about... The True or False of something for Swamp is how he feels. This drives me crazy Swamp when I deal with Mormons. Because their bottem line is they know something is true because they prayed about it and how they felt after they prayed determined if or not it was true... Like if they prayed about 2-2=4 and felt it was true...then it was reguardless of the facts and or evidence. Thats how Swamps Truth is manifested... If he feels its true, then it is, reguardless of the facts... This Swamp you can not deny, you don't care about the facts... Your deterine your Truth in spite of them. Yes I spoke the truth about the Roman Catholic beliefs... OGB did not deny the truth of what I pronounced, but rather he became angry simply because I verbalized the things they proclaim to be truth according to their extra Biblical scriptures... He is a little embarassed by my proclamation but will not deny it... Thus like I predicted, his only recourse would be to start name calling and attacking my integrity.

and Yes Swamp... The Urantia thing is so whacked... UFO my arse... that I am being facious in giving it the name Urine Tea ...a fitting description... I am wondering if the Urantia fella wernt playing the word game also when he came up with that name... Tia in spanish is "Aunt" so a play on that word describing anyone who would fall for this mumbo jumbo would be, "You are an Ant" U R an Tia... Then there is the matter of the first word "Ur"

My explainations are based on the evidence Swamp... Evidence... the truths you espouse... like I have said over and over again are based not on any sort of evidence but they are simply the outpouring of your feelings... nothing more... nothing less... and you spew them with expletive exclaimation.

Swamp, you have never dissed what I have said with Evidence... always if you don't believe it or like it you just start calling me names... you don't at all take issue with the evidence... Though you are a secular humanist with Buddahism leanings, you dertermine your truth like a Mormon... go figure?

OGB, show me the Venom... which comment are you refering to as Venom? You have not denyied any of the comment I have made. I hate not Roman Catholics or Homosexuals...a lot of folks like Swamp hate the church... I have never said or infered I hate Catholics... OGB, you attack my integrity because you can not attack my message. The Jews made the claim that Jesus hated them... Jesus did not hate them... he loved them... so he spoke to them the truth about what had become their faith... Because they could not attack his message, they attacked him... Any one still who preached the gospel will be attacked... The Roman Catholic does preach the gospel I will not deny that... But... The Roman Catholic Church Cloaks the gospel in the Veil of "Tradition" ... Because they do this, some of the folks who enter their flock drown in the waters of Tradition before they find Jesus Christ... Your message OGB reeks of just such an occurance... OGByou got a sore spot concerning the RC Church... You yourself have issues with them... that is why you are no longer a faithful Catholic... But they are so much a part of you and your heratige that you can not simply kick them to the curb... Something akin to having an alcholic Father who mistreated you as a kid... You love him... but you have issues... and so you suffer with that relationship... and when folks touch that sore spot... you start pulling out your hair and screaming "NO!" then you get out your hammer and nails and go after them... Until you come to terms with the "Truth" OGB expect nothing less of your self... Judging by the Truths that you were willing to True... you are on the right track... But the RC Church shackles your walk... For this reason OGB... I pray for you... honest Injun...

Orgnizdlbr
03-31-2007, 08:18 AM
Venom? Am I missing something OGB? I merely spoke the truth about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Now how do you make the leap that I am attacking the Church? The positions of the Church can not be supported by the Bible... They have to use extra Biblical Truths to go where they go... You do not deny this... You are upset because I Denigrate your beliefs?... come now... I know youu are a lineman... Lineman don't have feelings... And where did you get the Idea that I want to force a tithe on anyone? Could you please show me where I even infered that? You won't be able to cause it did not happen. I have said over and over that God does not need nor want your money. God simply seeks a heart that is able to give... If a man grudginly gives to satisfy the law, he does God a greater injustace than if he did not give at all. I also will defend your right to beleive what you want as I would Swamps and Batts... OGB, Christianity is tolerant of the beliefs of men... But the other systems of belief are intolerant of Christianity.... If the Muslims... or the Mormons... or the Secular Humanists ever take majority control of our government then all the others will not be tolerated... Already the Secular Huanists are seeking to rid society of the teachings of the Bible... In Canada Preachers can be thrown in jail for teaching the Bibles stance on homosexuality... How long before this happens in the United States you ask?... It is already happening... They are stil fighting a court case in California to get a Huge Cross removed from a National Cemetary... No OGB, it is not the Christians who want to take away our Freedoms... Freedoms endowed to us by our Creator as stated in our Constitution. The Creator who was known by the framers of the our Constitution...

Its ironic that you claim I would tell you to tithe and tell you where to worship... and you well know, the Roman Catholic Curch tells its parishners exactly those things... It requires them to worship at a specific location...,

Yes CP,venom and hatred. Where does it come from? Christianity may be tolerant, but you're certainly not. So tell me CP, why the hatred for Catholics?

Just a little advice, I would not be so presumtuous as to claim any formal training in any professional discipline, but you have all the classic signs of a very passive/aggressive personality. Take a stroll down to the corner therapist and get yourself some help.

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass031.gif

PA BEN
03-31-2007, 11:13 AM
People like CP? Well nail me to the Cross. CP is right, all, not some, but all religions hate, slam, run down, you name It, to the Born Again believer. We read our Bible and take it to heart, and from the Bible we share the Love of the Lord. Gods word [The Bible] is a sword that’s cuts, puts light on darkness, the truth hurts so people don’t like it. And yes we have our share of fruits and nuts and they make us all look bad. My Grandma was a Catholic, I asked Her one day if She reads Her Bible? She said that the father tells Her what She needs to know. I ask Her if She knew that She could go strait to God the Father for forgiveness of sin through Jesus? She said that no one is closer to God then the man up front. I asked Her if She knew that the Bible says that you have only one Father and that is your Father in Haven? The Bible calls your Church leader a Pastor? Read your Bible. Matthew 23:9"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Hebrews 10 One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
"SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
7"THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'" 8After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of (the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"
He then says,
17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. A New and Living Way 19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Orgnizdlbr
03-31-2007, 12:20 PM
OGB, show me the Venom... which comment are you refering to as Venom? You have not denyied any of the comment I have made. I hate not Roman Catholics or Homosexuals...a lot of folks like Swamp hate the church... I have never said or infered I hate Catholics... OGB, you attack my integrity because you can not attack my message. The Jews made the claim that Jesus hated them... Jesus did not hate them... he loved them... so he spoke to them the truth about what had become their faith... Because they could not attack his message, they attacked him... Any one still who preached the gospel will be attacked... The Roman Catholic does preach the gospel I will not deny that... But... The Roman Catholic Church Cloaks the gospel in the Veil of "Tradition" ... Because they do this, some of the folks who enter their flock drown in the waters of Tradition before they find Jesus Christ... Your message OGB reeks of just such an occurance... OGByou got a sore spot concerning the RC Church... You yourself have issues with them... that is why you are no longer a faithful Catholic... But they are so much a part of you and your heratige that you can not simply kick them to the curb... Something akin to having an alcholic Father who mistreated you as a kid... You love him... but you have issues... and so you suffer with that relationship... and when folks touch that sore spot... you start pulling out your hair and screaming "NO!" then you get out your hammer and nails and go after them... Until you come to terms with the "Truth" OGB expect nothing less of your self... Judging by the Truths that you were willing to True... you are on the right track... But the RC Church shackles your walk... For this reason OGB... I pray for you... honest Injun...

Your post is repleat with obvious venom and hatred for Roman catholics, come out of the closet, admit it, you hate Catholics and all who are not in agreement with your beliefs and views.

Honest Injun, get yourself some professional help, find out from where this hatred of Catholics manifests itself. You need help buddy, go get it. BTW, I'll pray for you to muster the strength to face your hatred and seek help.....you are in desperate need.

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/pope.gif

Orgnizdlbr
03-31-2007, 12:26 PM
People like CP? Well nail me to the Cross. CP is right, all, not some, but all religions hate, slam, run down, you name It, to the Born Again believer. We read our Bible and take it to heart, and from the Bible we share the Love of the Lord. Gods word [The Bible] is a sword that’s cuts, puts light on darkness, the truth hurts so people don’t like it. And yes we have our share of fruits and nuts and they make us all look bad. My Grandma was a Catholic, I asked Her one day if She reads Her Bible? She said that the father tells Her what She needs to know. I ask Her if She knew that She could go strait to God the Father for forgiveness of sin through Jesus? She said that no one is closer to God then the man up front. I asked Her if She knew that the Bible says that you have only one Father and that is your Father in Haven? The Bible calls your Church leader a Pastor? Read your Bible. Matthew 23:9"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Hebrews 10 One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
"SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
7"THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'" 8After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of (the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"
He then says,
17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. A New and Living Way 19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

I have never witnessed you denigrate or demean anyones faith or religion, if you feel that I cast aspersions upon you by making a statement in response to CP, that is regretable. My comment was for CP, and those of like mind, those who would tell me what to believe and how to worship. If you took offense, there was none intended. Conversly, If the shoe fits......

wudwoker51
03-31-2007, 12:43 PM
The question is are Mormons Christians? Like all religions there is alot of good and some not so good. I have worked out west and have had exposure to the LDS faith. If you are not affiliated with them you and your family are considered to be below them (kind of like union and non-union). Here's one thing that is for certain, if you go on a hunting or fishing trip with a Morman make sure to take more than just one, because if you don't I guarantee you will not have enough cigarettes, coffee, beer or booze:D Are they Christians, the majority try to lead Christian lifestyles.

CenterPointEX
03-31-2007, 01:39 PM
The Mormons don't believe the Bible to be true in its current form unchanged by Joseph Smith... The Mormons do not believe that salvation is attained by faith alone thru Christ alone... Therefor, no matter how much good they do in the world... no matter how good a life they live... they are not Christians, neither will they attain salvation thru the precepts of the Mormon Church... OGB, I don't tell you how to worship or what to believe... I am telling you that the Roman Catholic Church teaches precepts contrary to the Word... If you follow those precepts apart from the gospel the RC church also teaches, you will also go the way of the Mormons...

Orgnizdlbr
03-31-2007, 02:33 PM
The Mormons don't believe the Bible to be true in its current form unchanged by Joseph Smith... The Mormons do not believe that salvation is attained by faith alone thru Christ alone... Therefor, no matter how much good they do in the world... no matter how good a life they live... they are not Christians, neither will they attain salvation thru the precepts of the Mormon Church... OGB, I don't tell you how to worship or what to believe... I am telling you that the Roman Catholic Church teaches precepts contrary to the Word... If you follow those precepts apart from the gospel the RC church also teaches, you will also go the way of the Mormons...

Seek help!!! You are in dire need, really, no pun or joke intended, your hatred consumes you. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass031.gif

Orgnizdlbr
04-01-2007, 01:15 AM
Naw....

It ain't hate. He's just friggin obsessed with his belief, to the point of fanaticism.

He's what I call...."Blinded by the Light". :p

I think that was a #1 hit by ELO. (Electric Light orchestra).... What a GREAT friggin Group!!:cool:

Actually it was a Springsteen song made popular by Manfred Mann...

Swamp, he is a classic passive/aggressive personality. He hides his anger behind his proffession of faith. He really should seek help with his problem, but like most, he'll deny the problem and say he doesnt hate anyone. But his message to me was crystal clear and the venom spewed forth like a river. He is http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass031.gif

LostArt
04-01-2007, 09:10 AM
Hate is a strong word guys. Look up hate in the bible. Key words: men hate. Just type those two key words in.

http://www.biblegateway.com/


But, know this.........each of you BELIEVE in what you know and was brought up knowing or have reached a point or crossroad in your life and have a conviction in it.

And when you all have made your POINT and there isn't an agreement on all sides, it's time to call it.

Swamp is not going to be swayed. Georgie is not going to be converted. And we ALL know CP isn't going to stop.

There ya have it! That's in a nutshell.

PA BEN
04-01-2007, 09:18 AM
It's because of CP's love of the Lord, and believe it or not it's the love He has for His fellow Man and Woman to see them saved from eternity in Hell. Thats all no more no less.:rolleyes:

Orgnizdlbr
04-01-2007, 09:24 AM
It's because of CP's love of the Lord, and believe it or not it's the love He has for His fellow Man and Woman to see them saved from eternity in Hell. Thats all no more no less.:rolleyes:

Sorry Ben, nice try, he's consumed with hate for Catholics, plain and simple. At times he is able to control and disguise his hatred well, other times it manifests itself like an unstoppable rising tide. He needs to address his rage, he needs help from a professional.

"little beaver"
04-01-2007, 10:51 AM
It's because of CP's love of the Lord, and believe it or not it's the love He has for His fellow Man and Woman to see them saved from eternity in Hell. Thats all no more no less.:rolleyes:

Ben, I agree with your view of CP's conviction. This internet thing is so impersonal that a person has to be careful on sensitive subjects such as religion.

I was brought up RC and attended a RC school. I thought it was very good training especially when you see what's out there now!! However, I wasn't a 'Christian' as I didn't have a 'personal' relationship with Jesus Christ until later in life. However, I'm very thankful for my Catholic upbringing and I don't stand for anyone unfairly criticizing the Catholic church. A person should emphasize the positive basics of Christianity i.e. the shed blood of Christ and not get into negative 'nit-picking' because there is no end to that!!

As You all know, I don't shy away from controversial subjects. However, in this venue there is SO much 'miscommunication' that I've stayed away from getting into the 'Religious' stuff in detail.

As far as psycho-analizing CP (passive-agressive personality........that's nonsense), I would suggest the verse, "those that are without sin cast the first stone". We are all "semi-koo-koo" to some extent!!

Orgnizdlbr
04-01-2007, 03:20 PM
Swamp, being Catholic don't get you to hell or keep you out of it... Besides, you have stated you don't believe Hell exists anyway. Swamp, if your parents believed they were sinners in need of Salvation and trusted in Christs finished work on the cross as their only means of deliverance... then indeed they are with our Father in Heaven... Swamp, I have stated over and over also that the Catholic Church does teach the afore mentioned gospel... But,... The Catholic Church adds to the gospel another message derived from something called "Tradition".. The subject of Tradition is what has OGBs panties in a wad at the moment. He can not Biblically defend it...He knows that... he also knows that this is the reason he is now only a Catholic by Heritage and not of regular practice. Because he can not defend himself or the Church against the Points I have made he is reduced to attacking my person... Just like you do Swamp when you have no reason to contribute to the discussion... Swamp... I am not unwilling to listen to reason corroborated with evidential support. Therefor I am not; as you proclaim, closed minded. You sir on the other hand, are not willing to listen or examine any evidence that does not support your religion.
OGB, you have yet to take issue with one single item on the agenda that constitutes hate. You are now in the camp of the Homosexual Caucus who proclaim that Christians who teach the Biblical view of Homosexuality are hate mongers... Christians who teach the Biblical stance on sexuality are nothing of the sort... Quite the contrary... But simply because Christians teach that homosexual relationships are wrong they are called hypocrites, hate mongers, passive aggressive arses,,etc. OGB in this fashion you are now just nailing me to a proverbial cross. Simply for proclaiming the "Truth"... The Truth that is given to us in the pages of the Inerrant, Infallible Word of God... The Holy Bible... But since you OGB do not believe God thought it prudent to preserve His Word for us... you therefore are in the same camp as Swamp in that by default you are left with no... I repeat NO! source from which to derive Truth other than that pulled out of the thin air of your own personal experience... and if you would be truthful OGB, you would admit that even the truth you pull out of thin air convicts you... because the Catholic Church does indeed teach the gospel, you know that even apart from the pages of His Word... He has also written his law upon our hearts... and thus OGB; share it with us or not, you struggle with a load of guilt... When someone like myself lifts the veil around your heart by proclaiming Gods Word... You react like we just walked in on you wiping your arse... No defense... no cover... just unadulterated shame...


Camp of the Homosexual Caucus?? Really, get yourself some professional help buddy, you're in need. I'll pray that you muster the strength to face your hatred. Wiping my ass??? And you walked in???? What latent homosexual tendencies are manifesting themselves within you bro?? I'm really becoming concerned, what with your comments in the Cahart/Dickies thread, I'm wondering what goes on in that coconut of yours.....get some help, hatred becomes all consuming, get help quickly, you're on a slippery slope dude.

LostArt
04-01-2007, 03:34 PM
OGB, you have yet to take issue with one single item on the agenda that constitutes hate. You are now in the camp of the Homosexual Caucus who proclaim that Christians who teach the Biblical view of Homosexuality are hate mongers... Christians who teach the Biblical stance on sexuality are nothing of the sort... Quite the contrary... But simply because Christians teach that homosexual relationships are wrong they are called hypocrites, hate mongers, passive aggressive arses,,etc. OGB in this fashion you are now just nailing me to a proverbial cross. Simply for proclaiming the "Truth"... The Truth that is given to us in the pages of the Inerrant, Infallible Word of God... The Holy Bible... But since you OGB do not believe God thought it prudent to preserve His Word for us... you therefore are in the same camp as Swamp in that by default you are left with no... I repeat NO! source from which to derive Truth other than that pulled out of the thin air of your own personal experience... and if you would be truthful OGB, you would admit that even the truth you pull out of thin air convicts you... because the Catholic Church does indeed teach the gospel, you know that even apart from the pages of His Word... He has also written his law upon our hearts... and thus OGB; share it with us or not, you struggle with a load of guilt... When someone like myself lifts the veil around your heart by proclaiming Gods Word... You react like we just walked in on you wiping your arse... No defense... no cover... just unadulterated shame...

And this is converting others to Christ? THIS, is WHY so many turn against His Word!

This might have worked in the day where many were persecuted, but not today and not now...nor here on this linemen site. We live in a world that is politically correct and I'm afraid that includes religion or in this sense, Christianity. But, the day will come when we all have to account for our sins. But, until that day, You will never convert anyone with what is spewing from your mouth on this messageboard. Nor will you SAVE anyone on this board. Only Jesus can do that. And only Jesus can lay something on humans heart. Neither you, nor I will be judging ANYONE in the skin we are in now.

I've PM'd a few here that know how I feel and where I stand, including you. I've PM'd those, except Swamp. He already knows where I stand and doesn't even expect me to get up and yell that he is sinner and will surely go to hell! No, because he already knows my stand on this. But, he is still my friend and I don't even have to PM him and tell him. BUT I can pray for him.

Gracious.....and I said I wouldn't say another word. And now, CP.....you can talk about me. But, you know what? If you are talking about what kind of Christian I am, at least you are leaving everyone else alone.

That's all. (I think)

CenterPointEX
04-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Gracie..., I understand from the way you answered the true false segment, you know and understand the Truth... You know that heaven awaits you... not because of anything you have done or not done... but because of what Christ has done for you... I know also Gracie, that I can not save anyone... but I can reveal to them what has been revealed to me... For the same crime Jesus was called a hate monger and nailed to the cross to die amongst ilk and be counted ans one of them in the eyes of the political correctness that prevailed in his time... which would be Rome... Don't misunderstand me Gracie... I am not calling OGB a homo, but rather I am saying that he may be using the same logic as they, when they make the claim the teachers of Biblical sexuality are hypocritical hate mongers... in the same manor OGB is calling me a hate monger for pointing out some of the unbiblical things the Catholic Church teaches.

Pa Ben, I concur on the coo coo thing... I have said it before and I will say it again... to a man all in this field of work have a screw loose... cause nobody in their right mind would clumb their arse up a pole and play with KillaVolts...

To an extent, Catholics are really hung up on the sanctity of their Mother... I mean, the rest of us Christ professing ilk, would not be offended if one took issue with our denominations...we gladly with a cheerful heart are willing to discuss and reason that which we profess... Catholics on the other hand tend to develop twisted panties when asked to defend the tenants of their faith. For good reason... its hard to intelligently defend a position built upon shifting sands...

....... Swamp, being Catholic don't get you to hell or keep you out of it... Besides, you have stated you don't believe Hell exists anyway. Swamp, if your parents believed they were sinners in need of Salvation and trusted in Christs finished work on the cross as their only means of deliverance... then indeed they are with our Father in Heaven... Swamp, I have stated over and over also that the Catholic Church does teach the afore mentioned gospel... But,... The Catholic Church adds to the gospel another message derived from something called "Tradition".. The subject of Tradition is what has OGBs panties in a wad at the moment. He can not Biblically defend it...He knows that... he also knows that this is the reason he is now only a Catholic by Heritage and not of regular practice. Because he can not defend himself or the Church against the Points I have made he is reduced to attacking my person... Just like you do Swamp when you have no reason to contribute to the discussion... Swamp... I am not unwilling to listen to reason corroborated with evidential support. Therefor I am not; as you proclaim, closed minded. You sir on the other hand, are not willing to listen or examine any evidence that does not support your religion.
OGB, you have yet to take issue with one single item on the agenda that constitutes hate. You are now in the camp of the Homosexual Caucus who proclaim that Christians who teach the Biblical view of Homosexuality are hate mongers... Christians who teach the Biblical stance on sexuality are nothing of the sort... Quite the contrary... But simply because Christians teach that homosexual relationships are wrong they are called hypocrites, hate mongers, passive aggressive arses,,etc. OGB in this fashion you are now just nailing me to a proverbial cross. Simply for proclaiming the "Truth"... The Truth that is given to us in the pages of the Inerrant, Infallible Word of God... The Holy Bible... But since you OGB have inferred in this forum that you do not believe God thought it prudent to preserve His Word for us... you therefore are in the same camp as Swamp in that by default you are left with no... I repeat NO! source from which to derive Truth other than that pulled out of the thin air of your own personal experience... and if you would be truthful OGB, you would admit that even the truth you pull out of thin air convicts you... because the Catholic Church does indeed teach the gospel, you know that even apart from the pages of His Word... He has also written his law upon our hearts... and thus OGB; share it with us or not, you struggle with a load of guilt... When someone like myself lifts the veil around your heart by proclaiming Gods Word... You react like we just walked in on you wiping your arse... No defense... no cover... just unadulterated shame... why is it we feel this way sitting there holding our Sh@t paper and self righteously proclaim, "What my Sh@t stink?... I think not... who are you to judge the smell of my Sh@t... you ... you... hypocrite you!?:o Get some help Man!

Orgnizdlbr
04-01-2007, 06:17 PM
You react like we just walked in on you wiping your arse... No defense... no cover... just unadulterated shame... why is it we feel this way sitting there holding our Sh@t paper and self righteously proclaim, "What my Sh@t stink?... I think not... who are you to judge the smell of my Sh@t... you ... you... hypocrite you!?:o Get some help Man!

Very original, ask yourself this, Mr. self appointed, self righteous nut case. Would your Lord and Savior act as you do towards Roman Catholics. Or is there a possibilty that when Karol Wol'twa passed on, that the Lord and Savior welcomed himhome with open arms......

Heres a link link for you, you need ithttp://www.psych.org/

Get help bro, before your breaker locks out.....

wormy
04-01-2007, 07:02 PM
Mr. self appointed, self righteous nut case

Amen to that

CenterPointEX
04-01-2007, 10:01 PM
... Mr. self appointed, self righteous nut case. Would your Lord and Savior act as you do towards Roman Catholics..... OGB, you are still flinging accusations at me without saying exactly which point I made that you take issue with. I have pointed out some unbiblical teachings of the catholic church... For this reason you go into a tirade of name calling? OGB... you yourself take issue with the teaching of the Catholic Church. Namely the inerrancy of the Bible. You have inferred this. How would Jesus speak about false teachers? Ummm well lets look at what he said about some false teachers of his day.

Matthew 16" 6And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the (H (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+16&version=49#cen-NASB-23679H))Pharisees and Sadducees." 7They began to discuss this among themselves,...12Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the (N (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+16&version=49#cen-NASB-23685N))Pharisees and Sadducees.



Thru the truths he proclaimed Jesus rebuked false teacher head on. For this reason they became angry... for this reason they crucified him... If indeed the Roman Catholics are teaching some false doctrine then they should be rebuked. Some of the extra Biblical stuff derived from Tradition fits that category. This is not hate speech OGB... Do you have anything to say in defense or do you concur...



OGB, Lets see if you still won't show your cards...

The Greek ,Aramaic , & Latin manuscripts we posses while not autographs, are extant copies of the originals and thus inerrant and infallible.

True...... or ...... False?

The Catholic Seminary would answer True to that one OGB... You have inferred that you would answer that question False. I say inferred because while you made a lot of noise to that effect, you refused to straight up answer the question... See you got a problem... If you answer True... All following discourse must be in the light of that Truth... Your argument often falls outside those parameters. Thus you would not have a leg to stand on. If you answer false you do the Catholic Church a greater injustice than I ever thought about. Cause you claiming to be one of them, straight up say Bull Sh@t to their doctrine...
... Dude, you have been reduced to name calling for quite a few posts now... Defend your faith man... We are called to always be ready with an answer... Mary was a Sinner......... True..... or ........False...
Thats the question that sent you into orbit... pulling out your hair and screaming NO!

I'm still waiting for you to put your cards on the table for the good folks around here.

Orgnizdlbr
04-01-2007, 10:33 PM
OGB, you are still flinging accusations at me without saying exactly which point I made that you take issue with. I have pointed out some unbiblical teachings of the catholic church... For this reason you go into a tirade of name calling? OGB... you yourself take issue with the teaching of the Catholic Church. Namely the inerrancy of the Bible. You have inferred this. How would Jesus speak about false teachers? Ummm well lets look at what he said about some false teachers of his day.

Matthew 16" 6And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the (H (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+16&version=49#cen-NASB-23679H))Pharisees and Sadducees." 7They began to discuss this among themselves,...12Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the (N (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+16&version=49#cen-NASB-23685N))Pharisees and Sadducees.



Thru the truths he proclaimed Jesus rebuked false teacher head on. For this reason they became angry... for this reason they crucified him... If indeed the Roman Catholics are teaching some false doctrine then they should be rebuked. Some of the extra Biblical stuff derived from Tradition fits that category. This is not hate speech OGB... Do you have anything to say in defense or do you concur...



OGB, Lets see if you still won't show your cards...

The Greek ,Aramaic , & Latin manuscripts we posses while not autographs, are extant copies of the originals and thus inerrant and infallible.

True...... or ...... False?

The Catholic Seminary would answer True to that one OGB... You have inferred that you would answer that question False. I say inferred because while you made a lot of noise to that effect, you refused to straight up answer the question... See you got a problem... If you answer True... All following discourse must be in the light of that Truth... Your argument often falls outside those parameters. Thus you would not have a leg to stand on. If you answer false you do the Catholic Church a greater injustice than I ever thought about. Cause you claiming to be one of them, straight up say Bull Sh@t to their doctrine...
... Dude, you have been reduced to name calling for quite a few posts now... Defend your faith man... We are called to always be ready with an answer... Mary was a Sinner......... True..... or ........False...
Thats the question that sent you into orbit... pulling out your hair and screaming NO!

I'm still waiting for you to put your cards on the table for the good folks around here.

Excuse me sonny, your hatred of Roman Catholics has really got you in a knot. As I commented previously, your passive/aggressive personality needs professional help. So, I'll pray to Mary tonight that you may find the strength to seek assistance. Now, back to my previous question, whats with the homosexual comments? Comments, BTW, coming from a christian who posts pictures of his own ass in a linemans forum....whats up with that toughguy???

Orgnizdlbr
04-02-2007, 10:20 AM
Excuse me sonny, your hatred of Roman Catholics has really got you in a knot. As I commented previously, your passive/aggressive personality needs professional help. So, I'll pray to Mary tonight that you may find the strength to seek assistance. Now, back to my previous question, whats with the homosexual comments? Comments, BTW, coming from a christian who posts pictures of his own ass in a linemans forum....whats up with that toughguy???

Maybe I've been a little hard on Mr. CP....I understand his conviction. He is single minded and only views things from his perpective, I am the same....I'll refrain from anymore comments on your mental state, I know you'll continue your diatribe, thats fine, have at it.

I suspect I'll, at some point, be drawn back into this discourse, but for now, as I said, I am refraining from further comment.

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/argue.gif

CenterPointEX
04-02-2007, 07:10 PM
whats with the homosexual comments? I was trying to make the Point that the Homosexual Caucus brands hate mongers, Christians who preach the Biblical view of sexuality. In the same manor I have been branded a RomCat hater because I have stated that some of their teachings are contrary to the Bible. Christians who teach that homosexual activity is wrong do not hate homosexuals... Christians who take issue with the extra Biblical teachings of the Roman Catholic Church do not hate Roman Catholics. I feel that I have been unjustly branded a Roman Catholic hater.

CenterPointEX
04-03-2007, 11:24 PM
Swamp, you are correct...I believe the Bible... and thats exactly what I said. Some of the RomCat theology is contrary to what the Bible teaches... OGB will not deny that... The theology that I speak of comes from an extra Biblical source called "Tradition" OGB will not deny that. OGB has inferred in previous posts that he is not so sure the Bible is Truth... I am not the only one with the Truth Swamp... anyone with a Bible holds the Truth in their hands... if only they chose to open its pages and drink.

This World has gone nuts Swamp, recent developments in Science and Culture are calling into question almost everything we once believed... Science seems to be suffering a breakdown of consensus... if it ever had one... Science debates almost everything of cultural significance from when children in the womb become persons to whether miracles are possible... An increasing number of talking heads have declared ours a post modern world in which no consensus is possible because reality is what ever each person decides it to be. Neither the Christian World view nor not the secular humanist world view can claim any kind of authority... We seem to be trapped Swamp in Political and Social Chaos\BS... You got an answer Swamp?... I think not... you have a direction you might Point us in that we might search for the Truth Swamp?... I think not... Pray tell me... What hope do you present for the future Swamp... What are your thoughts besides Sh@t canning our Christian heritage in order to usher in the New World Order? Nature Abhors a vacuum Swamp. Front page of the New York times last monday...Town in Britain voted to allow a historical Church turned factory to be bought by the Muslims to turn it into a Mosque... Wanna know how that plays out Swamp?... Look to the middle east to find a clue... This country is in trouble Swamp... If Hillary gets the Pres, the Bill becomes chief ambassador of the UN... Bill will become leader of the Free World... Whats the alternative? Well the leading contender is a Mormon??????? ... That will surely preserve the freedoms handed down to us by our Christian Forefathers... Those faithful men who by Divine Providence penned our Constitution... Yup... Careful what you wish for Swamp... Batts... OGB...

CenterPointEX
04-11-2007, 07:07 PM
"God manifests himself/herself, in MANY different ways." You just won't even consider that. That is a pretty bold statement Swamp, and it implies that there is a God. So what have you learned about this God you are telling us about? Where did you get your information\truth about him? Did he reveal it to you or did someone else? I have read and considered the Truths of Hinduism, Urintea etc. [/QUOTE] What did the Gods of Hindu reveal to you? The Gods of Urine tea?

Pray tell us Swamp, What ways does God manifest himself to us? Tell me of your experience with God. How has he manifested himself to you? Has God manifested himself to you, or are you just speaking what you think might be apart from anything you actually know?

I agree with you Swamp that God God exists, I have a relationship with Him, I have see Him working in my life, I have prayed and asked Him to forgive my sins and change me into the likeness of His Son Jesus Christ. When I prayed that prayer Swamp, He revealed Himself to me in a manor that Words simply do no justice in describing. He will do this for you to Swamp. You want to know the Truth Swamp? All you got to do is ask. But I know you are to ready.

You Swamp are not here by accident... Even in you Swamp, God reveals Himself to me. In your beliefs He reveals to me the heart of the World. And molds my understand of Him.

LostArt
04-12-2007, 07:04 AM
Good my friend.
Glad to be of help, in helping you center your yourself to your belief. How come ya used "god" though? With you, it's always jesus.:confused:

But, see.....I thought they were one and the same.




Though personally,
I think you could get a revelation from a pile of dogshit. Sorta like that lady that sold the piece of toast on Ebay.:D :D

Oh boy......are we still on the shit? Heh.

LostArt
04-12-2007, 04:54 PM
Well, the Catholics say, "God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy Spirit". The Trinity.



Sure. I have no problem with that. He is called many names actually.

And I'm sure the nuns had many names for you too Swamp! :D

CenterPointEX
04-12-2007, 06:12 PM
Yes Swamp, Catholicism teaches the Bible... The Bible clearly sets forth that there is only one God. Three who's one what... God reveals Himself to us in three eternally distinct persons... The Holy Trinity... one God... Jesus himself said, when asked by the Disciples to show the Father replied, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father... " The Jews understood Jesus to be calling himself God... For this blasphemy they accused him unto death. No, you won't find the word Trinity in the Bible... but from Genesis to Revelation you will find the principle. Yes, this is a mystery Swamp, a mystery that will one day be revealed to all men... For one fine day Swamp... "Every knee will bow and every tung will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father."

CenterPointEX
04-12-2007, 11:31 PM
I just can't get a grip on it CP. You're right though. Christ is Lord. God is God. Christ may speak for God, and carry the weight of God...behind him. But he ain't god.
Last time I remember "God" Speakin, was to Moses in the burning bush, when he wrote the 10 Commandments.
Well Swamp.... I understand your disability to get a grip on it... No man can get a grip on it until he asks God for this... The Jews understood well what Jesue was saying... They understood him to be saying he is God... For this reason they conspired to kill him... Phillipians 2 says, " Though he was God, he did not cling to his rights as God, but laid aside his mighty power and glory to take the desguise of a slave and serve man."... When the doubting Thomas saw the risen Christ he fell at his feet and exclaimed, "My Lord, My God!" The Bible says Jesus created all things... Did the God you serve create all things Swamp? John 1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and Jesus is the Word made flesh..." Swamp, you have said, you believe if you try to live a good life then you receive Heaven... Now Swamp, if you commit a murder , then try to tell the judge that you lived a good life, helped the poor, fed the hungry, chipped in on the mercy hospital etc... That judge ain't gonna give a hoot what you lived... All he knows is that you robbed a bank, shot the clerck and you shall receive the death penalty... All the good stuff you did don't matter... You are guilty... Same with the Ten Commandments Swamp... The penalty for breaking them is death... Period. Jesus took you death sentence Swamp. He took your place... but you can reject that and serve your sentence your self if you want... But I really don't think you want to do that.

and actually the risen Jesus spoke to Paul years after he left earth... and also to the apostle John in Revelation

CenterPointEX
07-27-2007, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by SwampRat:...,
I don't believe the Bible says that jesus created all things...God Created the Heavens and the Earth in the bible I'm familiar with. And yes, I believe there is a God/supreme being factor in the creation of the cosmos. I've told you that before...I just don't see jesus as god. It's all "perspective" man


(1 Corinthians 8:6) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Corinthians+8&version=51)
But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.
(Colossians 1:15) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Colossians+1&version=51)
[ Christ Is Supreme ] Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can seeand the things we can’t see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.

(Hebrews 1) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Hebrews+1&version=51)
And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

1 Corinthians 8:6 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Corinthians+8:6&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Corinthians+8&version=51)
But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.

Ephesians 2:10 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+2:10&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+2&version=51)
For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
Ephesians 4:24 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+4:24&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+4&version=51)
Put on your new nature, created to be like God—truly righteous and holy.
Colossians 1:15 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Colossians+1:15&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Colossians+1&version=51)
[ Christ Is Supreme ] Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, [ Or He is the firstborn of all creation.]
Colossians 1:16 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Colossians+1:16&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Colossians+1&version=51)
for through him God created everythingin the heavenly realms and on earth.He made the things we can seeand the things we can’t see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world.Everything was created through him and for him.
1 Timothy 4:3 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Timothy+4:3&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Timothy+4&version=51)
They will say it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Timothy+4:4&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 Timothy+4&version=51)
Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks.
Hebrews 1:2 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Hebrews+1:2&version=51) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Hebrews+1&version=51)
And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

I stand corrected?

dirtdobber
07-28-2007, 12:17 PM
no harm maent to you but just remember that will not be the last time you my friend will speak those words. the pearly gates will have you speakin them again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

CenterPointEX
08-14-2007, 09:03 PM
Pearly Gates?... Oh do tell Mud Slinger... Enlighten us on the pearly gates...

PK270
08-15-2007, 09:50 PM
CP, you talk about your facts in the Bible. What version of the Bible, has the version you are reading been interpreted by a man somewhere along the line?

Christianity?? There seems to be many different versions of christianity, who is right?

Pentecostals -repent, baptised and speak in tounges as evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit whereas Baptist only need to ask forgiveness and accept the Lord as their saviour.

There seems to be quite a bit of different interpretation on just the Bible alone. And finaly what book is the right one, there are many interpretations of the Bible as well as the Kuran.

Seems there are many interpretations of a few religions and everyone feels they are right???????

CenterPointEX
08-15-2007, 11:01 PM
PK, I carry a parrallel Bible if you must know. It has in it side by side the NIV, KJV, NLV, and NKJV. All of them concur... say the same thing that is... The Bible is the most documented history book we have... We have tens of thousands of extant copies in the origional languages... We have scholars who read and write those origonal languages. Folks have been trying to debunk the Bible for thousands of years... If just one of them had been successful we would never have heard the end of it. The Penticostals and Baptists both consider each other brothers in Christ because the both believe the Bible and they both preach Christ crucified for our sins... Baptism and Repentence are not faith producing but rather they are responses to faith.

"Through HIm we received Grace to call people from among the gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith." Romans Chapter One verse three.

On the essentials of Faith taught in the Bible PK... all Christians agree... if they believe the Bible... Be they Lutheran, Baptist Penticostal, etc.. but PK, there are some out there who teach a brand of religion that calls itself Christianity... but does not believe the Bible is True... These are wolves in sheeps clothing...

dirtdobber
08-17-2007, 07:46 PM
looks like I got some people thinkin C.P. is a crock of shit he pulls all his info off the computer and posts it here just to have something to do his religion is what suits him on what it may be we are talkin bout.if he was a real believer in the truth of the LORD JESUS CHRIST he would never asked me to enlighten him on the words the pearly gates.C.P.get a real notion and start telling us of the lives you have saved in the fields of the devil not fightin with your felloe brothers here with your my religion is the only religion cause some preacher pulled you out of the depths of hell how many years ago???? you are no better than any person on this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

CenterPointEX
08-18-2007, 02:16 AM
"\A "parallel" Bible?
What's that? A bible specially issued to you? :p Yeah CP..."We" Must know...where the Fuc% you're talkin from....
And...WHAT "Faith" are you? Define yourself CP...besides "Christian".
What "Faith" are you a part of? What "Religion"?
Or...are you just "Christian"...non denominational...:p You talk and qoote all this biblical shit....What "Religion" are you talking from this pulpet you're preachin from? Speak, oh great "enlightened" one.............Baptist? Episcipol? Protanstant? "Church of the Lord".................God knows ya ain't a Catholic.

What the Fuc$ ARE you CP?

Besides a "Preacher of the TRUTH", of course.......... You are listening ain't you Swamp...
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for the salvation of all who beleive... "

You have spoken the Truth Swamp... I preach the Bible... all those you mentioned have Bibles in their churches... At one time all of those churches proclaimed that this Bible was the true inerrant word of God...

A parrallel Bilble is four translations side by side... Each of those translations was done indepenantly of each other by teams of scholars using extant copies of the Bible in its origional language... Those scholars were versed in both the languages in which the texts were written and the languages into which they were translated... Mind you these translations were done independentaly, some even in different centurys...and guess what Swamp... though the words be a little different.. they all concur... they all say the same thing. There is no controversy Swamp among scholars as to the authenticity of the texts or the integrity of the texts...

Swamp... my message has not changed...from what I can gather, your parents beleived the same thing Swamp... Christ crucified in our place for our sins... but death could not hold him... and if we live in him neither can it hold us.

Swamp, God is neither a cosmic puppeteer, nor is He a cosmic rapist...

God will not force **** us into trusting in Him... neither does he control our every move... He has given us free will... and in doing so given us the freedom to reject Him and follow our own way... Because we have free will, we chose to sin... But if we choose to trust God and ask Him to deleiver us... He will deleiver us from the consequences of our sins...

Because I preach the Bible I am lableed intolerant... You can not discount the Bible Swamp... for thousand of years better men than you have attempted this feat... But not a single one of them has discover a single ounce of discrepancy...

CenterPointEX
08-19-2007, 11:55 PM
Swamp...I am a follower of Jesus Christ... follower of "The Way"... as Christians were called back in the days of the Apostles... Swamp... religion is following a tree, a statue, etc... followers of dead men. peforming rituals that they think will save them
... I follow Jesus Christ... The only Holy Man ever to suffer death and then get up and walk away... never to die again... "The Jesus Incident ", was testified to by both his enemies and those who considered themselves his followers. Why is it so important to you Swamp that I declare my denominaton? If you had listened you would already know.

Just remember this Swamp... in essencials Unity... In Non essencials Liberty... and in all things Chairity...

Swamp? One day you say you know the Bible, one day not... One day you believe in a God, the next you don't... One day you diss my faith the next you don't remember doing it... Whats UP?

"A Mens Christian retreat"...Fishin, Drinkin a Lot of beer and a "little" bible study, and bringin the kids!
Damn, I got to become a Lutheran! :-) I'd say if your pastor read that post, you and him would be havin a "talk"...about your "blog". "Lutheran Soda's I tink dey call em "You're a hoot CP. :-) Praise the Lord. The Lutheran Church (LCMS) still holds the Bible to be the ture inerrant Word of God... The Lutheran Church (ELCA) has dropped this belief... The Baptists still hold to this belief... The Methodists, Presbatarians, and Episcipal Churchs are in various stages of throwing out the Bible as the true inerrant word of God.

LostArt
08-20-2007, 05:54 AM
Oh good grief CP!! Just post it!!! I'm not disputing what you are saying about being a "follower in Christ" but why wouldn't you say what your denomination was? Would it help you if I did????

OKAAAAY everyone! Let me get mine outta the way, I consider myself Baptist. And I've heard about every cotton pickin' joke about baptists. If you have any good ones you are most welcome to post them in the joke thread. :D

See CP. Nothing like confessing! It can set you free!

dirtdobber
08-20-2007, 07:25 PM
I got it he is a johovas witness he keeps coming back and tryin to knock on your or anyone elses door.just like at home I open the door with a cold budweiser in one hand and a hard uhh piece of candy in the other that normally sends them away pretty fast unless well we shouldnt go there.:D

PK270
08-23-2007, 02:59 PM
CP, I have to say you are wrong on a couple of things.

First, the Baptists and Pentecostals are MILES apart on their beliefs. Pentecostals believe that if you do not repent, be baptised and recieve the Holy Spirit (evident by speaking in tongues) you will go to hell. I was raised in this religion so dont bother telling me I am wrong there.

Second if religion is based on the same document then why do we have so many differences between religions. There is a flavor of religion to fit anyones needs. Whatever anyone believes in more power to them, you are trying to say there is unity amoungst religions at the same time you are saying there are different beliefs in the same religion.

You are also pretty demanding about others answering your "list" of questions but you somehow avoid simple questions like what religion you belong to. Puzzling.

Orgnizdlbr
08-23-2007, 09:27 PM
Imagine me wading in on the side of CP, LOL,.......CP has previously posted what denomination or for lack of eloquence on my part, what organized church he belongs to. I know what it is, he has no misgivings on sharing that and I'm sure he will when he is ready or cares to.

Many here will attest to the long protracted discussions and disagreements CP and myself have had on this forum, one thing I'll say on the man's behalf, he has conviction. He may have found his "conviction" later than many, it may have been a result of an event in his life, or it may have been for other reasons, but so what.....he has his conviction and is not afraid to profess or prosyletize on his beliefs, on this or any other forum or public square for that matter.

I dont have to agree with his style. I dont have to agree with his views. I dont have to agree with anything he says. But I give him credit, he aint afraid to share his beliefs or views. He is not a closet Christian, you know right where he is coming from. There is something to be said for that. It aint easy, brothers and sisters, to profess one's faith in Christ the way he does, I can only give him credit for that. As I said earlier, I dont have to agree........

CenterPointEX
08-24-2007, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the Kudos Labor... I have not yet started my own church Swamp, but I am running out of options as to attending organized denominations... Why? Because everyday day another one falls to the left of center and throws out the Bible as the True inerrant Word of God. The one I belong to still holds this belief... The Baptists still hold this belief also, though battles are being fought in both corts on this subject. But there is nothing new under the sun... Satan fought the same battle with Eve in Genisis 3... and our suffering is the result of the failure of Adam to bare his balls and hold his ground... Swamp, how long will you rant with you hands over your eyes, and ears asking for an answer that is right in front of you?... If you will look back at my post previous to you asking your question of me... You will see what everyone else has been looking at for almost a week now and still your rant... Do you even read your own posts Swamp?

dirtdobber
08-24-2007, 06:31 PM
ORG, that was very good of you and I agree with you.what I do not agree with is a GOD fearin man to stand up and tell everyone else that there religion is wrong and his is correct. a bit like ben lodin you think 100 virgins if you follow that so called religion as I have said b-4 as long as we believe in the same GOD not false GODS what is the big damn to do about who in the hell is better than who. I put my pants on one leg at a time and I wype my own ass how bout that I bet he dos the same. I also bleed red when I get cut. C.P. I believe in what you are trying to do but I just do not like it when you try an tell others that there belifs are wrong who knows what religion is the correct religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!:( :)

Meat
08-24-2007, 08:09 PM
What do they call that when you give 10% (before taxes)to the church and then they promise better gas mileage and your groceries will go further?

CenterPointEX
08-25-2007, 01:25 PM
what I do not agree with is a GOD fearin man to stand up and tell everyone else that there religion is wrong and his is correct....I just do not like it when you try an tell others that there belifs are wrong... who knows what religion is the correct religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!:( :) First off, I thank all of you for your prayers for my father and my family. The pain in our hearts at this moment is outweighed only by assurance of Dad's faith that he has imparted to us thru his Savior Jesus Christ.

DD, I understand that you do not like it when I proclaim the "truth of the Bible" as the only Truth. DD, whether or not one likes the truth does not determine it's authenticity. Again I say, 1+1=2... Reguardless of what anybody believes about that... the truth is heir apparent. Now if somebody comes up and proclaims, "I don't like it when you tell others that their belief (1+1=2) is wrong", that individuals likes and dislikes have no bearing on the truth.

The truths of the Bible; unlike any other historical document of any religion, are attested to by secular history, archeology and geology. No religion can make this claim. No religion can put forth one shred of evidence to document or support their beliefs. Neither can any man or religion set forth one shred of evidence to debunk the truths of the Bible. Believe you me, they have been trying for thousands of years... The Bible is the most scrutinzed document of all antiquity and thus men who cling to the belief that they are their own saviors thru their own works have no option but to close their eyes, ears, and hearts to the Truth. And thus they despise men who; by proclaiming the truth of the Bible, shine light on the darkness.


Swamp, according to the Bible, everythings hinges on what one does with the "Jesus Incident". Cause it proclaims that the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Chist Jesus... should you chose to accept this free gift you are good to go... Should you chose to reject it... the Bible speaks plainly of that path also..

dirtdobber
08-26-2007, 08:47 AM
I am not saying that you do not proclaim the truth of your bible not arguing that. what I said and am saying is that you proclaim ypur belief is the only way to heaven. this is my argument you will not proclaim the religion you follow for me thats fine I do believe that you and I will end up in HEAVEN because I believe in the LORD just may not do it the way C.P. wants.:p

dirtdobber
08-26-2007, 07:33 PM
one more ? for ya reading the bible GOD created ADAM and EVE they begot CANE and ABLE ABLE killed CANE so that left 2 males and 1 female that GOD created where is the rest of the story.for me he in turn had relations with his mother (the bible says is wrong) she gave birth to etc. you get it inlighten us brother.just curious of your thoughts on how we all got here.:eek:

CenterPointEX
09-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Able and Cain both had wives and children. Adam and Eve lived hundreds of years having children. The children in turn lived hundreds of years haveing children. In the beginning the gene pool was uncorrupted. So finding a mate among your siblings did not create biological problems. The greater supposed truth your argument speaks to the demise of is evolution. In an evolution situation, the mating of the same gene over and over would produce meltdown as genitic abberations are catistrophic in effect on folks.

dirtdobber
09-03-2007, 01:47 PM
what you are saying is because your gene pool is uncorupted. you can have relations with your children and they can have relations with theres oh you get it.now be carefull how you answer. I believe in the truth of the LORD now we just need to find out what RELIGON speaks the truth any thoughts? when you speak of the LORD you need to know what religion he was speaking of or trying to teach.:eek: O.K. 1 more question you speak of an uncorupted gene pool.where did the coruption come from C.P.if it all started with ADAM & EVE there were no other humans that GOD created. here again be careful how you answer.

CenterPointEX
09-04-2007, 09:48 AM
That is easy DD, according to the Bible, when sin entered into the world, all things began to die. Sin has effected a death sentence on our bodies, and on our enviorment. The Wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life thru Christ Jesus. We found in the faith will receive new uncorrupted bodies and a new uncorrupted world to live in.

dirtdobber
09-04-2007, 05:52 PM
explain to me and who ever else is following along how sin entered the gene pool.yes one can commit a sin but how did whoever it was get it in there gene pool swallow it oh the apple will be your answer i am sure. but that dont cut it.sin is something one dos not born with it. we are all born free of sin is that correct or you arguing that to. as for me C.P. I believe one chooses to commit sins not born with it or for sure not injected with sin.:)

dirtdobber
09-04-2007, 07:25 PM
I have argued with him just about enough he says he believes in CHRIST well lets see.he believes one of 2 things he has mentioned evolution then he mentions creation you either believe in one or the other not both unless your a hypocrite??????!!!!!!!:eek: :D :eek: :D just wanting to know wich one it is C.P.????

CenterPointEX
01-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Swamp, the Bible says God created all things thru Christ. The Bible says Jesus was there in the beginning. The Bible says Jesus is God...

Now the Mormons believe we all existed with Jesus before the world was created... The Bible knows nothing of this.

The Mormons believe that they will someday be a God and get their own planet to populate... Their population will come from the women they seal themselves here on this planet. That is basis for the pologemy thing... Some of the Mormon Dudes get themselves sealed to their daughters even... Remember they are desperate to attain God status to get their planet started... This is a bunch of bunk from the most correct book on earth... the book of Mormon made up by the Prophet Joseph Smith who made many false prophesies... and we are seriously thinking of making a Mormon President?

PA BEN
01-09-2008, 08:43 AM
Hillery, uses the Church when it's to her benefit.
Obama, is? was? a Muslim? Now a liberal Christan?
Romney, Mormon
Huckabee, Christian

Look who the Liberal media and some on this forum bash, because of there faith? Every time Hillery talks about her faith, she should get the same treatment as Huckabee.:eek:

Orgnizdlbr
01-09-2008, 11:42 AM
Hillery, uses the Church when it's to her benefit.
Obama, is? was? a Muslim? Now a liberal Christan?
Romney, Mormon
Huckabee, Christian

Look who the Liberal media and some on this forum bash, because of there faith? Every time Hillery talks about her faith, she should get the same treatment as Huckabee.:eek:

Respectfully PA, who has been trashing Huckabee's faith....besides Batts? Are you saying there is widespread Christian bashing on this forum?

dirtdobber
01-09-2008, 07:43 PM
C.P. ya answered to swamps comment but nothing for me there brother I am so hurt. :D

PA BEN
01-09-2008, 10:14 PM
Respectfully PA, who has been trashing Huckabee's faith....besides Batts? Are you saying there is widespread Christian bashing on this forum?

Some doesn't mean widespread Christian bashing...........:cool:

IN THE SHADOWS
01-09-2008, 11:50 PM
Like my ole grandpappy told me once....If ya want to get a good barfight started....just bring up either one of 2 subjects...Politics or Religion....Leave it to us linehands to make it a clean sweep...:D

CenterPointEX
01-10-2008, 06:44 AM
dirt dobbr, I thought Swamp answrd for me. Anyhow... I do not believe in evolution. There is not a single shred of evience to support that theory\Religion... It is a religion that one can believe only by faith.

The only thing anybody has come up with to dis Huckabee is that he is a BibleThumper...

Swamp... the faith question has never been an issue because since the founding of this great nation the Leaders have all been WASPS save one. Swamp, the religions do not all have the same god... You know better than that. Islam does not have the same god as all the others... Each of these religions preaches a message. The messages of Islam, Hindus, Satanists, and Christianity are diametricly opposed to each other... they cannot by their own definitions serve the same God.

If the God christians serve exists Swamp... and we intentionaly elect a Leader that serves another God then we are in deep doo...

Orgnizdlbr
01-10-2008, 07:14 AM
CP, here's some info on the Huckster cut and pasted from another site. The basic question was why not support him, heres part of the answer.....




Fact #1. As Governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee denounced an immigration bill (Arkansas Senate Bill 206) that “would have required proof of citizenship to register to vote and would have required state agencies to report suspected cases of people living in the country illegally.” (Doug Thompson, “Immigration Bill un-Christian..governor says”Arkansas News Bureau 1/28/05)

Fact #2. As Governor, Mike Huckabee offered a proposal to give state funded scholarships and state benefits to illegal aliens. (Laura Kellams, “Huckabee Plan would give aid to illegal aliens” Arkansas Democrat Gazette 1/12/2005)

Fact #3. Governor Huckabee supported the McCain-Kennedy Senate Amnesty bill for illegal aliens. Huckabee claims to know God’s position on the Amnesty Bill, and that God supports it. Huckabee has repeated called opponents of illegal immigration “racists” and/or “bigots.” Read Article. , Read Article #2

Fact #4. Governor Huckabee refuses to sign the “No Amnesty Pledge”.

Orgnizdlbr
01-10-2008, 07:24 AM
More on the Huckster from another site



http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/005609.html (http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/005609.html)
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c200..._20071102.html (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c200..._20071102.html)
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...18perkins.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...18perkins.html)
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/...ws/316347.html (http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/...ws/316347.html)
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/...ws/318458.html (http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/...ws/318458.html)
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000718.html (http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000718.html)

CenterPointEX
01-12-2008, 06:31 PM
"Even if benefits to people who are in the U.S illegally could be stopped, "I don't understand how a practicing Christian can turn his back on a child from this or any other state,"..."I know Sen. Holt and Mr. McCutchen say they're pro-life," Huckabee said. "We're trying to preserve the life of someone who, when born, will be an American citizen with his first breath. We can spend $900 on pre-natal care when the mother is pregnant. Instead, this bill (State Bill 206) would have us take a chance and spend $2,000 a day at Children's hospital if the baby's born and something has gone wrong. That's anti-life." Mike Huckabee

OGB, I agree it's a problem... I also agree with Mr. Huckabee, that until we change the laws... we must protect US Citizens... be they in the womb or outside of it... Should these children automaticly become citizens?... I think knot... but right now that is the law. The law right now is, these mothers can kill these children in the womb and save us the trouble... I do not agree with that either... But until that law is changed... we must allow it to happen... In voting for Mr. Huckabee... I am voting to that end. The next president will make appointments that will set the tone of the Supreme Court for mine and your lifetimes OGB. So the question before is now is do we want a Supreme Court Judge who judges the law according to our Constitution which was predicated on Biblical Law?... or do we want a judge who will rewrite the costitution according to the Secular Humanist Law now vectoring the Soul of America?

One thing I do know for certain... We do not under any circumstances want a Mormon follower of Joseph
Smith ;who was to his last breath a Mason, picking these judges. Mormonism is infused thru and thru with Masonism... Joseph just repackaged it. Ultimagetly the Masonic Lodge by their own teachings worship Lucifer... This is ;while covert, evident in the blood oath Masons take as thier first step into Masonism... This is not taught below the first six level of Masonism for good reason... Rarely would anyone venture into a pact with the DEvil... To answer my own question... Mormons are not Christians! They in their own teachings claim to be Spirit Brothers of Lucifer... I somewhat agree...

Mitt Romney espouses the doctrine of Mormanism and subsequently the doctrine of Masonism. Masons do do good things for the community, but buried in their doctrine is the worship of Satan. Satan has from eternity past been the father of all lies, subsequently mimicking God ordained institutions in the hope of leading astray the masses.

Orgnizdlbr
01-12-2008, 07:01 PM
CP,

You and I have had much discourse involving our views and opinions regarding secularism, I will not waste any more of Byron's bandwith to argue my case. What I will say is you are correct in your assertion on the next President's Supreme Court appointments. My view of those who should be appointed and your view of those who should be appointed are diametrically opposed.

CenterPointEX
01-25-2008, 04:44 PM
I concur OGB... We are the Sons of two very different fathers... Our discourse is not by accident... Nor is it to change your heart or mine... We have an audience OGB that trancends this forum... Ultimately it is the people of this great nation America... America now stands at a crossroad. We at this CenterPoint must choose. I believe in my heart that America is still good... that there is an unheralded army of saints out there who will get off their comfortable chairs, roll up their sleeves, and make the sacrifice to help steer this country back to its foundation... Europe chose to throw in the towel. Their Churches went silent... but not for long... for now they have been turned into taverns... Now they ring with the revelry of those who march to the beat... "Eat, Drink, and be Merry... for tomorrow we die!" So the only thing left for them is to take what pleasure they can from the moment... for the future is no hope for them... there is only now... Up until the recent past... America lived not for the here and now, but rather for the here ever after... This is why we have been the most genereous nation in the history of the world... But even now I hear the drum beat on the street and in this forum... The "Me" generation has come of age... They are pleasuring in the moment with no eye to the past or the future... as with every man... every Nation comes to this Point... If they hear the voice of their creator... He will have mercy on them... This I understand without pride or malice... but rather with humble humility...

One thing I do know for certain OGB... We do not under any circumstances want a Mormon follower of Joseph
Smith ;who was to his last breath a Mason, picking these judges. Mormonism is infused thru and thru with Masonism... Joseph just repackaged it. Ultimagetly the Masonic Lodge by their own teachings worship Lucifer... This is ;while covert, evident in the blood oath Masons take as thier first step into Masonism... This is not taught below the first six level of Masonism for good reason... Rarely would anyone venture into a pact with the DEvil... To answer my own question... Mormons are not Christians! They in their own teachings claim to be Spirit Brothers of Lucifer... I somewhat agree... MItt Romney; by his embracing of Mormonism... subsequently Masonism, serves the Father of all Lies.

CenterPointEX
01-26-2008, 02:09 PM
Dude..I'd really like to see where you got that from. And just don't tell my "The book of Morman". Tell me where. I'd like to look that shit up for myself. Swamp you are correct... I have researched the precepts of many different religions... Thus I know that none of them other thn Judeo/Christian have any supporting evidence they can present.

I have talked at length in these forums about the authority's that govern the theology of each specific religion. For Christians it is only the Bible... For Mormons... it is the KJV corrected by Joseph Smith, supplanted by the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, and the Journal of Discourses... This triple combo is the authority of Mormon Doctrine... Mormons claim them to be the only correct books on earth pertaining to God. They claim they are written by prophets of God and are infallible and inerrant.

Problem is there is irrefutable evidence that the Book of Abraham was a false translation of Egyptian hieroglyphics Joseph Smith procured from a traveling circus.... The Hieroglyphics were actually from the Egyptian Book of the Dead? They have taken whole sections out of Journal of Discourse and have made over six thousand wholesale changes to the Book of Mormon since its first printing. That first printing was sanctioned and blessed by Joseph Smith Himself. as correct and infallible... Brigham Young is a Mormon Prophet and thus every uttering from his mouth was and is considered infallible scripture according to Mormon teaching...

That being said Swamp, the following are from Mormon Scripture.
The following was a discourse delivered by Mormon President Brigham Young in the new tabernacle at Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 30, 1870:

"'Who will redeem the earth, who will go forth and make the sacrifice for the earth and all things it contains?' The eldest son said: 'Here am I;' but he did not say 'send me.' But the second one, which was 'Lucifer, son of the morning,' said, 'Lord, here am I, send me, I will redeem every son and daughter of Adam and Eve that lives on the earth,..." 1

If you do not recognize the eldest son as Jesus, it is stated more clearly by Milton R. Hunter, member of the Mormon First Council of the Seventy. Written and published under the direction of the General Priesthood Committee of the L.D.S. Council of the Twelve, Milton explains: "The appointment of Jesus to be the savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." 2


(1) Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 282
(2) Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, 1945, p. 15

Swamp, the Mormons are heavy and speedy on printing their scripture... Every year their theology changes... They will argue with you that they never taught something that was in last years printing... They will even go so far as to claim that that printing from last year that you hold in your hand was one made by antagonists against Mormons... That Swamp is and insane argument... but they are a cult brainwashed in that manor and categorically refuse to examine evidence that discredits their current teaching... even if it is their own scripture... How insane is that? How about some more insanity... consider the following.

"Mormonism teaches that trillions of planets scattered throughout the cosmos are ruled by countless gods who once were human like us. They say that long ago, on one of these planets, to an unidentified god and one of his goddess wives, a spirit child named Elohim was conceived. This spirit child was later born to human parents who gave him a physical body. Through obedience to Mormon teaching, death, and resurrection, he proved himself worthy and was elevated to godhood as his father before him.http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/Topics/Belief/_resCults/DoorCult.gif Mormons believe that Elohim is their Heavenly Father and that he lives with his many wives on a planet near a mysterious star called Kolob. There the god of Mormonism and his wives, through endless Celestial sex, produced billions of spirit children.(2) (http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/Topics/Belief/Mormonism.html#Anchor-24399) To decide their destiny, the head of the Mormon gods called a great heavenly council meeting. Both of Elohim’s eldest sons were there, Lucifer and his brother Jesus."


Swamp, they teach that we also are the spirit sons of Elohim, We existed prior to this world and fought in a battle against Lucifer and his forces... They teach that people of color did not show loyality in the battle and thus were born in this world black, brown, and yellow... The White folks are the ones who did good in the battle and thus were rewarded being born White? Now Swamp... Swamps gran daddy was a Canadian... now we are getting to the bottom of things... any comment Canadian Lineman?

ivanho
01-26-2008, 04:14 PM
Can't we all just get along








____________________________________________
QUICKEST WAY TO PICK A FIGHT!
Question a mans faith or Political veiws!!

wormy
01-31-2008, 07:57 PM
Hell yes they are

wormy
02-01-2008, 08:47 AM
Hell no Im not

Anymore I am not sure what I am. If the mormans say they are Christians then they are. The way other so-called Christians act in other religions why not.

ivanho
02-02-2008, 11:31 AM
:confused:
Hey CP...
What is the differance between a radical Muslim,,
and a radical Christian?
Christian say's Jesus Christ
The Muslim say's Muhamid

They both think theirs is the only Religion.

PA BEN
02-02-2008, 02:23 PM
:confused:
Hey CP...
What is the differance between a radical Muslim,,
and a radical Christian?
Christian say's Jesus Christ
The Muslim say's Muhamid

They both think theirs is the only Religion.

Muslim's say join us or die!:eek:
Christians say it's a free gift:rolleyes:
Passage Matthew 11:29:

29"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

Orgnizdlbr
02-02-2008, 03:02 PM
Muslim's say join us or die!:eek:
Christians say it's a free gift:rolleyes:
Passage Matthew 11:29:

29"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.


Hmmmm, gentle and humble....ever hear of the Crusades?

PA BEN
02-02-2008, 03:09 PM
For one thing that's very much over and that was the Roman Catholic church. Not the born again church that fallowed the teachings for Jesus.
Passage John 3:16:

16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Passage John 3:17:

17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. :)

Orgnizdlbr
02-02-2008, 03:21 PM
For one thing that's very much over and that was the Roman Catholic church. Not the born again church that fallowed the teachings for Jesus.
Passage John 3:16:

16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Passage John 3:17:

17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. :)


Actually the original crusades were called for by the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine empire, but that is semantics. The fact of the matter is that the Crusades were waged in the name of the Lord by people who were religious leaders. That is not much different than people who call themselves leaders of the Muslim faith who urge their followers to do harm to those who are non-believers. Once the human element is introduced, and power and money are the goal, religion becomes an easy rallying cry for those who would use others as their instruments to attain and achieve their goals. It's been going on well before Christ was born and will continue ad-infinitum.

CenterPointEX
02-04-2008, 08:56 PM
Hmmmm, gentle and humble....ever hear of the Crusades? Yes... and I have spoken at length of the Crusades here on this forum... The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression gone bad... An army was conscripted to meet this Muslim aggression... The mistake was that the army was not conscripted of Christians... But rather the army was conscripted from the bottem of the barrel... The greater mistake was that these scally wags were promised a ticket to heaven to go and meet the Muslims on the battle field. In that vein the army gone wrong was no different from the Muslims they met... They were both simply in their minds working out their salvation.

OGB... If you want to use that argument, then it follows that Judas did what he did in Christs name. Because you see... on the surface Judas was a Christian... a follower of Jesus... Just as the fella who motivated the Crusading Army with the promise of heaven...

......The Promise of heaven in exchange for works was and is unBiblical... So though Judas, Jim Jones, and the Crusading scally wags were marching in the name of Jesus... their marching orders were not of Christ... but rather they came from Father of all Lies. So, you see the Muslim advance towards Europe was stopped rather miricously by a house divied against itself... Two groups of men denying Christs Sacrifice on the Cross and working out their own salvation... an exercise in futility if you examine the history... a mistake to make again if you don't.

Orgnizdlbr
02-05-2008, 03:29 PM
CP, Ben made a broad statement regarding Christians and Muslims implying that the Bible teaches Humility and gentleness, and that Muslims or the Quran teach only death.

You know, as well as I, that the Bible is repleat with violence and cruelty.

CenterPointEX
02-05-2008, 10:53 PM
CP,...You know, as well as I, that the Bible is repleat with violence and cruelty. This is a misleading statement OGB... While violence and cruelty are well documented int the Bible... they are not taught as virtues.... Quite the opposite OGB, the Bible teaches that no greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for another... and Love your neighbor as your self... Jesus though he was God laid down his mighty power and glory and disguised himself as a slave to serve man.

The Koran teaches no such love for your neighbor... and the greatest love a Muslim can show is to blow himself up killing infidels... having no part or relationship with Christians or Jews are their marching orders...

Orgnizdlbr
02-06-2008, 07:13 AM
This is a misleading statement OGB... While violence and cruelty are well documented int the Bible... they are not taught as virtues.... Quite the opposite OGB, the Bible teaches that no greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for another... and Love your neighbor as your self... Jesus though he was God laid down his mighty power and glory and disguised himself as a slave to serve man.

The Koran teaches no such love for your neighbor... and the greatest love a Muslim can show is to blow himself up killing infidels... having no part or relationship with Christians or Jews are their marching orders...

Interesting, do some comparison CP, see which text is more intolerant towards unbelievers, the Bible or the Quran........

PA BEN
02-06-2008, 08:10 AM
If you watch TV you see Christian aid workers being kidnapped by Muslims, you see people that have been kidnapped by Muslims beheaded!:( You see Muslims fly planes into buildings. Now, how many of these thing have you seen Christian's doing on TV????:eek:

CenterPointEX
02-06-2008, 07:07 PM
OGB, We do not have to look to the Bible or the Koran to see which is more tolerant to unbelievers...

We need only to look to the nations that are governed according to the precepts of the Koran. In these nations it is illegal to convert to Christianity. The penalty for converting to Christianity is up to and including death. In Muslim nations there is no religeous freedom... PERIOD!

Now in nations founded on and governed according to the Christian Precepts taught in the Bible... there is almost complete freedom... Because it is a Christian Nation... America tolerates all religions... If we cease to be a Christian nation... we will cease to tolerate all religions.

There are over 100 verses in the Koran for instruction about Jihad... Folks can explain these into something they are not, but they pretty much in context speak for themselves... Here are a few examples... but first a quote from our muslim friend...

.You are confusing your self about who is a believer , in your view the Koran defines a believer as only a Muslim ....This is not true ...
the believers in Koran are men of all the three religions (the people of the book (i.e. Christians, Jews, and Muslims)...it is true man …

These are suras from the Koran...

5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoeveR amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection;... (Translation: "We thru terrorism instilled fear in them.")

[9.29 ] Fight those who do not believe in Allah…nor follow the religion of truth,... those who have been given the Book(The Bible), until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Sura [9.5] Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

[5:33] The just retribution for those who fight GOD [Allah] and His messenger [Muhammed], and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (the Dome of the Rock built upon the site of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you (there), then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. (Jews and Christians)

008:012: …make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

008:059-060: [8.59] …let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape. [8.60] …prepare against them what force you can ...to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah’s way [for Jihad] … 008:065: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand [Infidels].

003:169: …reckon not those (suicide bomers, etc.) who are killed in Allah's [In Jihad] way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven and have earned the right to bring 70 of their family members with them];

They also get to take seventy of their family members with them... That is why Mothers of these children dress them up and send them to suicide bomber school...

004:094-095: [4.94]…when you go to war in Allah's way… [4.95] …those who strive hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal…Allah shall grant to the strivers [i.e., Jihadist] above the holders back (i.e. those who shy away from Jihad/suicide bomber school) a mighty reward:...
004:100: …whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah…

Can this reward be delievered? Satan seems to think so... Matthew 4:9 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+4:9&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+4&version=31)Click blue link to see Satans thoughts...




Koran :32.[5:32] if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people:
Chaaaw.

This Sura was used in a full page ad in the New York Times to say how peacful a religion Islam is... Only thing they left out the middle part... "Unless it be for spreading mischief in the land" That was purposeful... The Ad read:

Koran :32.[5:32] if any one slew a person it would be as if he slew the whole people:

The actual intent was a message to Isreal... behave or else! In context the Koran was talking about how Cain paid a price for killing Able... and if Isreal did not behave they would also pay a price... This Sura has nothing to do with the peacefulness of Islam...

Orgnizdlbr
02-07-2008, 06:43 AM
So CP, you're telling me that Bible verse is tolerant towards nonbelievers?

The nations you speak of, Christian or otherwise, are, for lack of a better term, run by men. Men who are fallible, men who hunger power and more power, men who are motivated by money. These men, specifically who come in the name of religion, are the most vile and despicable of mankind. These men care nothing for religion, only craving things "of the flesh." They care nothing for the Bible, the Torah, or the Quran, but they use the verse of those books as a means to their own agenda. You and I both know that......

Orgnizdlbr
02-07-2008, 06:48 AM
If you watch TV you see Christian aid workers being kidnapped by Muslims, you see people that have been kidnapped by Muslims beheaded!:( You see Muslims fly planes into buildings. Now, how many of these thing have you seen Christian's doing on TV????:eek:


Ben respectfully, your broad statement about Muslims was wrong. Are there followers of Islam who want to kill each and every non-believer? Of course! But, to cast aspersions on an entire religion because you view them all as radicals is wrong.

ivanho
02-08-2008, 09:31 AM
The point I was trying to make on the differances...
Is there is no differance if you think about it..
Both sides have a belief in something bigger than themselvs.
I don't care if you believe in little green men or talking trees.
It's the ability to have faith!
I think it is the degree of faith that some have and others don't that makes us all unconfortable.

LINETRASH
02-09-2008, 12:19 AM
Far be it for me to blast any religion.

I will say that my favorite episode of South Park delt with those forlks.

Who was it, Smith?

It was funny as hell how they portrayed this guy, reading stuff from his hat, etc.

Not overly religious myself, I adhere to the golden rule as much as possible.

Who knows? Maybe it'll get me a pass come judgment day.

CenterPointEX
02-10-2008, 04:16 PM
So CP, you're telling me that Bible verse is tolerant towards nonbelievers?
Yes OGB that is what I am telling you... Jesus broke the Ten Commandments down to two... "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind" and "love your neighbor as yourself.".

Jesus was then asked "who is your neighbor?"... Jesus basicly replied that, "All men are your neighbor... even those whom the world and society despise... therefore... just as I have loved you, and willingly give my life for you... so I send you to take up your cross and follow me... that my love might dwell in you... that in you the world might know me."

This is the principle on which America was built... because of that we are the most loving, tolerant, giving, and caring nation in the history of the world. You will find nothing like this in the Koran OGB,




...These men, specifically who come in the name of

religion, are the most vile and despicable of mankind....
They care nothing for the Bible, the Torah, or the Quran, .....




The Torah is the Bible OGB... the Torah and New Testiment books preach the same message. That is a message of Love.
The Quran on the other hand teaches a completely different message... The Koran teaches a gospel of works... it teaches the message that man saves himself... Man will enter heaven or not by the works he does or does not do... The only ironclad way for a Muslim to know he is going to heaven is to die in Jihad... i.e. killing unbelievers.
The nations you speak of, Christian or otherwise, are, for lack of a better term, run by men. Men who are fallible, men who hunger power and more power, men who are motivated by money. These men, specifically
who come in the name of religion, are the most
vile and despicable of mankind... This statement is BS... America is the greatest example that Christian Nations and the Christian men running them are the most compassionate on earth... Muslim nations and the men running them are some of the most uncompassionate on earth... By and far... the most ruthless regimes of all time have been atheistic in heart mind and soul... You have to understand OGB... if there is no God... then there are no rules... Yes indeed there may be democracys and dictatorships that make up rules out of thin air... but by and large... a democracy without morality will be as two wolves and a lamb deciding what is for dinner...

Orgnizdlbr
02-10-2008, 05:44 PM
Preview http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Yes OGB that is what I am telling you... Jesus broke the Ten Commandments down to two... "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind" and "love your neighbor as yourself.".

Jesus was then asked "who is your neighbor?"... Jesus basicly replied that, "All men are your neighbor... even those whom the world and society despise... therefore... just as I have loved you, and willingly give my life for you... so I send you to take up your cross and follow me... that my love might dwell in you... that in you the world might know me."

This is the principle on which America was built... because of that we are the most loving, tolerant, giving, and caring nation in the history of the world. You will find nothing like this in the Koran OGB,

Deuteronomy


2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: 2:35 Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

Yes, quite tolerant.....one of many verses in the "good Book" that speaks to intolerance...... This wouldnt be an example of killing "non-believers" now would it CP??



This statement is BS... America is the greatest example that Christian Nations and the Christian men running them are the most compassionate on earth... Muslim nations and the men running them are some of the most uncompassionate on earth... By and far... the most ruthless regimes of all time have been atheistic in heart mind and soul... You have to understand OGB... if there is no God... then there are no rules... Yes indeed there may be democracys and dictatorships that make up rules out of thin air... but by and large... a democracy without morality will be as two wolves and a lamb deciding what is for dinner...


Ah, yes, Politicians show compassion, captains of industry show compassion......Ha, ever hear of sweatshops? Compassionate men ran those. Ever hear of the robber barrons? A compassionate lot they were. And how about the right wing conservatives, those who rail aginst the murder of a fetus in the womb, a compassionate lot they are, for once the child is born the compassion stops, how you ask...the same people who rail against abortion rail against any form of social program of assistance, especially if the mother is a minority....give me a break CP, I thought you were smarter than that!

PA BEN
02-10-2008, 06:45 PM
Passage Matthew 7:6:

6"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Orgnizdlbr
02-10-2008, 06:57 PM
Passage Matthew 7:6:

6"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.


Not intolerant?????

PA BEN
02-10-2008, 07:12 PM
Not intolerant?????


Passage John 14:6:

6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


If this it what you call intolerant. I guess I am.:rolleyes:

Orgnizdlbr
02-10-2008, 09:32 PM
Passage John 14:6:

6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


If this it what you call intolerant. I guess I am.:rolleyes:

There are many intolerant passages in the Bible Ben.......as many as in the Quran.

The passage you chose isnt intolerant, overtly anyway......


John:

1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

More tolerance.....

Orgnizdlbr
02-11-2008, 07:49 AM
Matthew:


10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

More tolerance,.....very peaceful, gentle too.........

PA BEN
02-11-2008, 08:30 AM
Jesus is the light that exposes sin. Of course when peoples sin is exposed they will not like it. It's like lifting a rock and seeing all the bugs running away when the light hits them. It's the same when Jesus's light exposes sin. Yes, call it what you will, intolerant, THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY,TURN OR BURN

Orgnizdlbr
02-11-2008, 10:23 AM
Muslim's say join us or die!:eek:
Christians say it's a free gift:rolleyes:
Passage Matthew 11:29:

29"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.


Here is your original post that I responed to. Your statement speaks for itself, I have shown you passages from the bible that which are not "gentle or Humble", you can rationalize these passage however you wish, I frankly dont care, but if you wish to make broad statements about a religion and the philosophy of that religion, back it up with fact, not innuendo. There may come a time when you convince me that ALL OF ISLAM wishes me dead, so far you havent.

CenterPointEX
02-11-2008, 01:45 PM
Matthew:10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. More tolerance,.....very peaceful, gentle too.........
Yes indeed OGB... if you have read the Bible then you know what the Sword is that Jesus speaks of... The Sword is the Word of God... The Bible... and yes OGB, the Gospel offends... it set mother against child... husband against wife... OGB against CPX, etc. But you will notice OGB the attackers,
the angry people are the folks who don't like the word or folks who believe it.

Orgnizdlbr
02-11-2008, 08:32 PM
Yes indeed OGB... if you have read the Bible then you know what the Sword is that Jesus speaks of... The Sword is the Word of God... The Bible... and yes OGB, the Gospel offends... it set mother against child... husband against wife... OGB against CPX, etc. But you will notice OGB the attackers,
the angry people are the folks who don't like the word or folks who believe it.


Hmmmmm, right back at ya, as you hate the words in the Quran, because according to you it is not the innerrant word.

PA BEN
02-12-2008, 08:28 AM
There IS no "word" Labor.

Except CP's belief,... and the Bible. Case Closed. THAT's the Word man.

So CP...
Who ya votin for? It's either gonna be mccain or billary, or salama obama.
Who ya votin for?:D

Me? Don't care. With Choices like that, for "The President of the United States". For me, it ain't worth the time, to even vote.

Screw it.

Just elect one of em...and hopefully, America can ride it out for 4 years. Sorta like the Carter Administration....

So...
Who ya votin for CP?:D
If you don't vote don't bitch about who gets in office.:eek:

Orgnizdlbr
02-12-2008, 10:45 AM
Yes indeed OGB... if you have read the Bible then you know what the Sword is that Jesus speaks of... The Sword is the Word of God... The Bible... and yes OGB, the Gospel offends... it set mother against child... husband against wife... OGB against CPX, etc. But you will notice OGB the attackers,
the angry people are the folks who don't like the word or folks who believe it.

BTW, open discourse and dialogue on a subject, any subject, is not by any stretch of the imagination an attack. I am, nor do I intend to be against CPX while I converse with you. If you feel my questioning and pointing out obvious contradictions that I see amounts to an attack on you, you're taking me way too seriously. Sit back, take a deep breath, take another one, maybe you'll feel better. I am not attempting to attack your faith. I am not attempting to attack anyone's faith. I wouldnt do that. But when broad statements are made about religion, which are in fact wrong, it needs to be pointed out that those statements are not credible. It's like saying all Catholics are against any other denomination of Christian, or all Jews are one thing or another.....I think you see my point so I wont belabor it any longer. Just let go a little CP....It will do you good to step out of the box, and probably make your faith a little stronger.....

CenterPointEX
02-13-2008, 04:01 PM
OGB..you seem to be agianst the notion that the Bible is true and inerrant. You do set yourself up as an atagonist against the precepts of Christianity.

OGB, I actually do not see your Point and neither do you in context. You made a claim or infered that Christianity teaches the indiscriminate killing of unbelievers. That is not true. The Biblical passages you brought up were responses to agressors who set out to kill the Jews... Self defense. Just as in the case of our response to Hitler... I imagine OGB, but I don't know cause Im not God that the chilren were one of mercy as they would have fared a worse fate without thier men. One time instructions from God for one group of people. The Koran passages I set forth are not one time instructions. They are broad based instructions for Muslims to apply to Infidels in all places in all time.

You are not reading either the Koran or the Bible to support the statements you set forth. You simply take a Point out of context and infuse your views on it... Something you oft accuse me of. You should research the data you use to make your claims OGB... It would be rather enlightening ... whether you study the Koran or the Bible you will find they are not quite what you think... I know... I have...

Orgnizdlbr
02-13-2008, 05:50 PM
OGB..you seem to be agianst the notion that the Bible is true and inerrant. You do set yourself up as an atagonist against the precepts of Christianity.

OGB, I actually do not see your Point and neither do you in context. You made a claim or infered that Christianity teaches the indiscriminate killing of unbelievers. That is not true. The Biblical passages you brought up were responses to agressors who set out to kill the Jews... Self defense. Just as in the case of our response to Hitler... I imagine OGB, but I don't know cause Im not God that the chilren were one of mercy as they would have fared a worse fate without thier men. One time instructions from God for one group of people. The Koran passages I set forth are not one time instructions. They are broad based instructions for Muslims to apply to Infidels in all places in all time.

You are not reading either the Koran or the Bible to support the statements you set forth. You simply take a Point out of context and infuse your views on it... Something you oft accuse me of. You should research the data you use to make your claims OGB... It would be rather enlightening ... whether you study the Koran or the Bible you will find they are not quite what you think... I know... I have...

Sorry CP, you and I will debate this ad nasuem, there are contradictions in the bible, just asthere sre contradiction in the Quran. If you dont see them, look a little harder. Tell ya what, instead of listening to whoever you use to interpret the word, interpret it yourself.

You are the king of taking passages out of context.

BigClive
02-13-2008, 06:08 PM
I've not been following this thread. I was just wondering if you've all decided if Mormans are Christians or not?

PA BEN
02-13-2008, 08:19 PM
I've not been following this thread. I was just wondering if you've all decided if Mormans are Christians or not?

Morman's are Morman's. Christians are Christians:cool:

CenterPointEX
02-13-2008, 10:10 PM
I've not been following this thread. I was just wondering if you've all decided if Mormans are Christians or not?
Mormons are not Christians BC... Joseph Smith took the position that all of Christianity was apostate... and that only Joseph Smith had the truth. Mormons will tell you they do not believe or worship the same God Christians do. They do not now nor have they ever called themselves Christians... They have always been Mormons... followers of the Angel Moroni... Spirit brothers and sisters of Jesus... his brother Satan and their brother and sister Eve and Adam?

Orgnizdlbr
02-14-2008, 08:15 AM
There ya go!!:D

I swear...."Religion", just really...Seperates People.
Even "In the Faith".

I've seen Baptists, turn on Catholics, in my own neighborhood. Their kids in school,...makin "comments" to each other. "Catholics aren't TRUE Christians".

What the difference between "Christianity" and "Islam"?

Islam has the Sunnis and the Shia,
Christianity has the Baptists, the Catholics, and all the "Off shoots" there of.....
And then...there's the Jews.:D

Religion is a VERY Laughable subject.:confused:

Yep, therein lies the problem.....mankind has perverted religion to itsown purpose. It's all about greed and power, from the Catholic Church to the televangelist. There are those who are motivated to do the right thing and there are those who's sole purpose is to amass power and wealth. And those people will denigrate those who follow other "sects" of those respective religions.

Ever wonder where the money comes from to run the Vatican?

Ever wonder where the money comes from to build the Mega Churches across this nation?

Ever wonder what motivates an Irish Catholic or Irish Protestant to want to kill each other?

There are many reasons, sadly for the most part, much is rooted and motivated by religious intolerance.

Ahh, whats the use.......

PA BEN
02-14-2008, 08:19 AM
Yep, therein lies the problem.....mankind has perverted religion to itsown purpose. It's all about greed and power, from the Catholic Church to the televangelist. There are those who are motivated to do the right thing and there are those who's sole purpose is to amass power and wealth. And those people will denigrate those who follow other "sects" of those respective religions.

Ever wonder where the money comes from to run the Vatican?

Ever wonder where the money comes from to build the Mega Churches across this nation?

Ever wonder what motivates an Irish Catholic or Irish Protestant to want to kill each other?

There are many reasons, sadly for the most part, much is rooted and motivated by religious intolerance.

Ahh, whats the use.......

Passage 1 Timothy 6:10:

10For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. :eek:

BigClive
02-14-2008, 12:15 PM
Morman's are Morman's. Christians are Christians:cool:

Well I disagree. I ate one of each last week and they both tasted the same.

CenterPointEX
02-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Did anybody read Mitt Romneys withdrawel speech? I was taken aback by it... If he had made that speech as an entry speech... He probably would have run away with the nomination... Sans my vote of course... No matter the alignment with my political views... I just could not vote for a man who worships Satan... and Ultimately Mormons do worship Satan...

BigClive
02-15-2008, 04:05 PM
But keep in mind that electricity is the work of the devil and therefore you are in his employ. Not only that, but you indulge yourself with sinfulness using the payment from your work which is nothing less than devil money.

Does the bible not state:-

And behold for God saw that the linemen were distributing the power of Satan amongst the eager masses with their power hungry kitchen appliances, and thusly he did smite them down into the depths of hell for a perpetuity of punishment from demonic cornbrators.

Well that's what mine says.

1sully
02-16-2008, 02:05 AM
I don’t get into this Bible thumping discussions, but I saw this and it about sums up the way I feel about the situation. I will say that I have had pole partners that were Morms and they never said anything about there Religion, just good hard workers .they did celebrate Christmas & Easter, what does that mean?? They didn’t cuss, but nobody gave a shit, the rest of us took care of that.
How about the # 1 (Man), “I use that term loosely” in the US Senate, Harry Scary Ried, Dimorat.
Evil Morm. He is.




November 2001


Hello. My name is Angela Christine Byers (yes, my mother actually named me “Angel of Christ”), and I am an atheist.
A couple of weeks ago, Reed brought home a rather amusing pamphlet he found pinned to a bulletin board outside his office, it was entitled Why Mormons are not Christians. It's printed by the Sherhinah Outreach Ministry in Fairbanks, Alaska. The back of the pamphlet reads “Are you a real Christian? Have you come to God in God’s way as described by the Bible? If you are interested in the Jesus of the Bible, or you’re not sure where you will spend eternity, please give us a call.” Apparently if you have come to God by not following the Bible you are not a real Christian. These folks seem to be very concerned about whether or not people are real Christians.

The first argument they offer is: “Mormonism does not teach that the Bible is the infallible word of God.” Those nasty Mormons say: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Anyone who thinks that the Bible has the exact same meaning it did 2000 years ago is clueless about how language works. The meaning of words change over time and when a translation is made the best approximation of the word is used. There are many examples of this throughout the Bible.

Another argument used to prove Mormons are not Christians is, they say, “Mormonism teaches genealogical research”. The Bible says “neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies”. (1 Tim 1:4) “But avoid foolish questions and genealogies...” (Titus 3:9) Well, this would mean that the thousands of people who research their genealogy are not true Christians. The Bible itself is FILLED with endless genealogies — John begat Joseph begat Sam begat Battshit begat... well, you get the idea.

How about this mention to not giving heed to “fables and foolish questions”? This would seem to make the entire pamphlet null and void, after all the Bible is nothing more than a book of fables and “are Mormans real Christians?” seems to be a rather foolish and pointless question to ask in the first place!

Speaking of “fables and foolish questions”, the pamphlet asks “Why do Mormon writings say Enoch lived 430 years, whereas the Bible says 365 years?” The oldest human being on record is 122 year old French woman, Jeanne Calment. Anyone who actually believes that people lived to be over 200 years old is clearly choosing to believe a fable. To argue because one book says a person lived to be 430 and another says 365 are indeed quite silly and they should start taking the advice of their own Bible to avoid fables and foolish questions.

Asking if Mormons are real Christians is like asking if the color blue is better than the color red, it just doesn’t really matter. If these people would use all this energy towards good things, like spreading the message of how at our core we are all humans and deserve kindness, we would have a much better world.

CenterPointEX
02-16-2008, 08:38 AM
I don’t get into this Bible thumping discussions, but I saw this and it about sums up the way I feel about the situation. I will say that I have had pole partners that were Morms...



November 2001


Hello. My name is Angela Christine Byers (yes, my mother actually named me “Angel of Christ”), and I am an atheist.
A couple of weeks ago, Reed brought home a rather amusing pamphlet he found pinned to a bulletin board outside his office

The first argument they offer is: “Mormonism does not teach that the Bible is the infallible word of God.” Those nasty Mormons say: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”....

How about this mention to not giving heed to “fables and foolish questions”? This would seem to make the entire pamphlet null and void, after all the Bible is nothing more than a book of fables and “are Mormans real Christians?” seems to be a rather foolish and pointless question to ask in the first place!

... they should start taking the advice of their own Bible to avoid fables and foolish questions.. The Premise of Christine's testimony is that the Bible is a Book of Fables and therefor should be given no creedence. Fact is... the Bible stands the test of Historicity. Every single scholar that ever endeavored to gather facts to relegate the Bible to the realm of Fables has come to the Understanding of the depths of the TRUTH of the Bible... Every turn of the Archeologists spade supports the TRUTHs of the Bible... The Bible is History that is documented and testified to unto the Point of irrefutablility.

There are folks who say the Holacost did not happen... There are folks who say a jet did not crash into the Pentagon... That the twin towers were felled not by jets but by CIA operatives... Bunk! There was physical evidence and there were wittnesses to these events that testify as to their Truth... Same with the events of the Bible. The events of the Bible as the events of 911 did not happen in a vacume. Thus we have the examined reliable testimony of wittnesses and physical evidence.

Joseph Smith did not know any of the languages in which the Bible was written. Joseph Smith did retranslate parts of the King James version of the Bible. Go get a copy of the KJV with Josephs footnote corrections. Look at the very first example in Genisis. Joseph does not retranslate or correct anything... He did add two pages of text that had noting to do with what was written.

The events of the Book of Mormon did happen in a vacume. There was no continuity of wittnesses to move forward the supposed truths of its events. Threre is no archological or historical evidence to support the Book of Mormon... The book of Mormon came from stories cooked up in the head of Joseph Smith... a vacume...

Using Angelas logic... We could say, "Why are we fighting a war on terror?... The stories of Muslims launching an attack on American soil killing thousands of Americans are just fables. So now the war against radical Islam is being funded by the sweat off my balls all because of someones belief in Stories and Fables. The Truths of the Bible and 911 are supported by the testimony of wittnesses and evidence... They are not Fables... Should we choose to ignore or deny these truths... we would do so to grave detriment.

reppy007
02-20-2008, 11:39 PM
dont talk this bullshit , we all work for a living , most of you guys are full of shit ,and you know its true , so get the hell out of here ,, i dont care about rules , you brave boys never joined the military , when u do , let my ass know , its not all about linework , and your god. ask ron he was in the marines and i was in the army , he is still my friend , Paul , hiiilck

CenterPointEX
04-29-2008, 09:24 PM
The Book of Mormon and the whole of the LDS teachings put forth the theology of personal godship...

They teach that if a man plays his cards right... He will someday recieve his own planet as a reward...

The inhabitants of this planet will be the childen sired here on this earth by the lucky man... Therefor it is the goal of every Mormon aspiring to be god... to have as many children as possible... to the Point of sealing himself to every fertile woman under his roof... his own daughters not excluded... This teaching has once again manifested itself... all the young women between 14 and 17 in that Later Day Saints compound were pregnat or had already had children... All of them had been forced to have sex with the God makers in that compound...

This in no way, shape or form has anything to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ... or Gods Word... the Bible... it has everything to do with the teachings of Joseph Smith and subsequently the Morman Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints... The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Book of Abraham... Josephs own special Revelation... from his FAther... Satan.