vacuum switches

[jersey hostage]

does anyone any where have a safety protocol for work procedures on vacuum switches especially underground.These are t elbows that get screwed in, they are not load break.They seem like great switches except there is no visible open.For a while we were operating these as normal switches until we were not aproved for switching because the dispatcher and his boss said you cant test and ground when you dont have a visible open.All of a sudden we realized we may have been doing it wrong all along.But it is such a pain in the ass to do otherwise without dumping multiple circuits in this one circumstance that the company has changed their rule.Being underground you cannot use hotsticks ,you have to rubberglove it.I was just wondering other procedures as it seems the manufacturers reccommendations for aboveground using hotsticks is contrary to underground using rubber gloved hands.Any help is appreciated.

[Orgnizdlbr]

does anyone any where have a safety protocol for work procedures on vacuum switches especially underground.These are t elbows that get screwed in, they are not load break.They seem like great switches except there is no visible open.For a while we were operating these as normal switches until we were not aproved for switching because the dispatcher and his boss said you cant test and ground when you dont have a visible open.All of a sudden we realized we may have been doing it wrong all along.But it is such a pain in the ass to do otherwise without dumping multiple circuits in this one circumstance that the company has changed their rule.Being underground you cannot use hotsticks ,you have to rubberglove it.I was just wondering other procedures as it seems the manufacturers reccommendations for aboveground using hotsticks is contrary to underground using rubber gloved hands.Any help is appreciated.

I assume you are talking about a A.B.Chance LVS. What task are you attempting to perform, ground the cable or switch, or another task?

[jersey hostage]

theyre elastimold,same elbow as ab chance.Im talking about grounding cable while it is still attached to the switch.Cant use stick because its in a underground vault so everything is done by hand or four foot shotgun stick.ie,testing then pushing on grounding elbow

[Orgnizdlbr]

theyre elastimold,same elbow as ab chance.Im talking about grounding cable while it is still attached to the switch.Cant use stick because its in a underground vault so everything is done by hand or four foot shotgun stick.ie,testing then pushing on grounding elbow


Not asking about the elbow, about the switchgear. Sounds like a chance Load Vacuum Switch. If so there are no visible gaps, so in order to do it correctly, i suppose you need to de-energize the entire circuit to remain within the switching rules your boss is using.

[thrasher]

I assume you are talking about a 600 amp bolted elbow. If so, it is possible to use a double ended bolt and then attach a 200 amp bushing insert on the backside. This gives you a way to test and ground the elbow without having to take apart the elbow. We did have to add cabinent extenders on a couple of brands of doors to make this work though. It's hard to describe but if you need the info give me a facs number and I'll send you a copy of our drawing spec. I don't have the spec in an e-mail format.

[jersey hostage]

we have yhe 200 amp bushing on the back.My question is does anyone test and ground these switches with their hands,no sticks.These arent in a cabinet they just hang on the wall.

[lineman641]

we have yhe 200 amp bushing on the back.My question is does anyone test and ground these switches with their hands,no sticks.These arent in a cabinet they just hang on the wall.
down here,absolutly not . that would be a major safety violation..we do not even ground overhead pri without a stick. what you are describing is gloving u.r.d. :eek: we cannot do that. I hope your company doesn't say if you stand on a blanket ,it will be o.k.

[jersey hostage]

that is exactly what it is except in a manhole duct system.They said we got the ok but now noone will put it in writing especially since it would change work rules across the whole system.I dont think anyone is going to put their name on it as it has to go against everything the manufacturer suggests.thanks for the input.

[linemanfrog]

We have Trayer brand swithes in our man holes they are round and placed directly under one of the two lids so that we can use sticks to test and ground the UG 600 amp elbows. Your situation is definately tricky to say the least.
On our 600 amp elbows we install an "elbow tap plug" it allows you to piggy back a 200 amp elbow off of the 600 amp elbow. It also alows you to effectively ground the cable. In your situation can you access the elbows from above? If so you could test the cable with a meter then insert a metal rod into the elbow tap plug then use a overhead ground by installing it on the metal rod.
Or if there is an unused set of bushings on the switch that are not behind fuses or relays you could install extension bushings and elbow tap plugs and install elbow grounds on the elbow tap plugs after testing it dead. Then you would just close the switch that feeds that set of bushings. The plus side to this is there would less chance for an exposed fault.
If you would like I could send you some specs that we use. I know we had a problem with our Trayer switchgear a few years back and I would NEVER install grounds by hand regardless of what a phase meter tells you.

[jersey hostage]

we did install them to be switched with sticks from above but the angle wouldnt let you apply grounds.I thought of installing a rod and tapping a ground on it but they wont approve that type of grounding because that is not what the rod is for.Legally everything has to be written a certain way so no one is liable.We had a fatality 5 years ago operating a oil fuse cutout so this will be looked at closely.Sometimes we have 2 switches on opposite walls facing eachother with only 3 feet in between the elbows.I just want to find out if anyone applys meters and grounds in the holes because certain company people say other utilities do it and i think they are just making it up.

[linemanfrog]

Our company policy as well as my own policy is to ALWAYS TEST, TAG, and GROUND! No ifs, ands, or buts. UG is so diferent from OH because you cannot have visable opens, hell you cannot even be sure the cable in one vault is the the other end of the cable you isolated in another vault. Not trying to sound like a know it all ass....but if you are working on UG primary cable without testing it for voltage and effectively grounding it then you are just asking for your own version of a casket. Do yourself and your loved ones a favor.....FIND a way to test and ground the cables before you work on them. There is always a way, it may not be easy or picture perfect, but something is always better than nothing.

[jersey hostage]

Did I say we dont test before grounging?The problem is my company has a policy on visible opens even the old ra oil switches had small windows in them and tou could see the blades open,then you could remotely with a rope ground the switch.My question is do you install grounds on a energized switch even though the cable you are grounding is dead ie tested.Plus alot of situations wouldnt let you install grounds with a stick from above because of the angle.These vacuum switches are becoming quite common and it always takes an accident before rules are changed.We were opening the switch pulling the dust caps by hand sticking in a pt tester by hand and then installing grounds by hand.The vaults these are installed in are only 7 to 8 feet wide so sticks are not an option with exception to 4 foot shotguns that dont really provide any protection.I just was wondering what other companies were doing.Thanks for the replies this could be a big issue.

[FL DEL]

jersey hostage, when you open the switch can you lock it open with a company lock???? before you enter the hole do you put "hold off" @ the circuit Breaker ???? If you work where i think you work, you need a copy of the Manual Of Opertaions you'll find an osha approved exception in ther for network ducted systems and 1 more percaution always let the dispatcher know where you are & what your doing hope that helps some

[Koga]

in hell I would do any urd switching by hand. :eek: I was too damn close to a switching cabnet with a stick and in too big a hurry when it went up in my face. Spent time in the burn unit and a year of recovering. Still have scars on my hands to remind me it aint worth it. They could kiss my a&& :D

Koga

[jersey hostage]

thanks for all the replys.Its hard for me to describe the situation we are in although I have done my best.From the date on my first post they still have nothing in writing and I dont think they ever will.Just because its underground doesnt mean you ignore visible opens and never operate equipment while in the hole.Too many people have suffered that way.thanks to everyone and god bless.