the bucksqueeze

[sparky81]

Our company has just gone 100% tie off rate and is going to start using a device called the bucksqueeze by buckingham I was curious if anyone has one or has used one and what they thought about it.

[loodvig]

N.Grid went 100% bucksqueeze too. Be carefull some were defective from the factory! It's very hard to get used to!

[topgroove]

You're gonna hate it. Its OK on a nice clean pole but on a conjested pole with cable. telephone, openwire secondary with a bunch of service drops and than add a underground riser or two and your gonna want to throw the damn thing to the ground.

[old lineman]

I know that management of utilities see what's coming down the pike long before the rank and file do. I'm sure that they see this is the wave of the future.
Someday lineman will be sitting around talking and saying, "do you know in the old days linemen used to free climb poles"?
And someone will say, "were they nuts"? Nope but over the years lot's of linemen fell and it was an obvious hole that needed to be plugged.
As for the 'Bucksqueeze' it's a newer product so I wouldn't expect that it has reached it's final design. Therefore, if a company purchases them they likely will see changes that are obvious improvements.
If I were a company looking for such a product I would look for an older product. One that has been designed, tested, redesigned and retested.
I also would want it to have met a criteria and been certified as meeting a national standard. To my knowledge the USA has no such standard so anything can be marketed. Watch out!
The only one that meets all of these criteria is the "Pole Choker 4" produced by Jelco out of Montreal, Quebec and 'The Pole Shark", produced by Scepter also in Canada. The parent company of Jelco is Elk River, a US company that has bought them out.
The 4 stands for 4th generation. They are CSA approved and designed to arrest a free fall on iced poles. Obviously ice is a hazard in the USA also.
This product has been around about 15+ years and has been fine tuned using lineman's imput.
Buckingham will have to go through the same development process. When finished some linemen will hate the whole concept.
That will always be the case.
The Old Lineman

[Stick-it]

what the hell is a bucket squeeze?

[lineman641]

http://www.buckinghammfg.com/linemen/bucksq.html

[Stick-it]

My god. I quit.

[Koga]

thier "bucksqueeze" shove it up thier ass!:eek: Looks like another piece of crap designed and made by sombody who has never climbed a pole in thier life. We are still allowed to free climb and will fight to keep it that way.Dont need it ,don't want it and if they don't like it then they can KOGA



Koga

[mscheuerer]

Nice....like we don't enough shit to worry about when climbing. Now more crap to get in our way.

[racinsprintz10]

This is unreal

[graybeard]

Watched a demo at equipment show and looked like it worked, but would take alot for me to get used to. They also had this retracteble lanyard that I could live with. It would be better than 2 scare straps. I would rather have an option than be forced into using something.

[old lineman]

Watched a demo at equipment show and looked like it worked, but would take alot for me to get used to. They also had this retracteble lanyard that I could live with. It would be better than 2 scare straps. I would rather have an option than be forced into using something.

Hey Graybeard, as I mentioned in order to meet stringent standards the Bucksqweeze, Pole Choker, Pole Shark MUST STOP a free fall in so many inches.
A second scare strap will not stop a free fall.
I'm speaking from experience. I put on my pole strap while standing on the ground because of an iced pole and climbed to the 30 foot level when I cut out.
I was on the ground before you could say, Jack Robinson. Minor injury and went right back up.
I also said that the premium brand (in my opinion) is the Pole Choker 4 by Jelco.
The pole strap has an additional strap that passes between the pole and the lineman. This arrangement grips the pole as titanium grippers embed themselves into the pole. Normally they drag the worker to a full stop within 1 foot on a dry pole, 1 1/2 feet on a wet pole and about 36 inches on a fully iced pole.
Now to cross over an obstacle the retractable is placed immediately above the obstacle and the pole strap is taken off the pole and placed over the obstacle.
Once it's back in place the retractable is removed and it retacts back into it's casing.
Anything less is NOT equal protection.
In the early 1970's we had to wear the double belt system in New Englan and an apprentice lineman fell 60' and never walked again. The price is too high!
The Old Lineman

[graybeard]

OL
I know not everyone is working under the same rules. Here we can still free hand and no second scare strap. I'm sure the day is coming when things will change and from what I've seen the bucksqueeze with the retractable lanyard would be my choice. I just don't want some safty cop who has never been in hooks telling me what I have to use!!

[scammy]

nothing worst than seeing a brother on the ground,,,,,,,,,if this helps us ,,,why not use it,,,,,,,,,,,I climb every day ,,just had back surgery ,was off for a year and a half.this may be combersom,but if it works ?why not

[mullet man]

i saw an SBC lineman use one of these in the field.
shimmied up about 15ft, removed hooks from pole and just hung there. pretty nifty.
he wasnt very comfortable with it, it showed and he told us that he didnt have much time with it in use, nor did he care to. some of the other fellas on his crew had nothing but good things to say about, altho none of them backed up any of their words...
i do agree tho that with obstructions and not much experience with this, it looked like it would be a PITA.
the SBC lineman, said that a rep from Buckingham came to there yard and held a demonstration about it. he remarked that the Buckingham rep, looked like he had grown up using it (like riding a bicycle), was able to move around like it wasnt there. he didnt mention if that pole was 'busy' or not.

maybe it is possible for the companies making it mandatory to have a seminar involving this tool?

EDIT: my 1st post, nice site, with some good info!

[edski104]

we've gone to the buttsqueese here as well. what a piece. it adds 20 pounds of weight to your belt. if the pole has more than one or 2 telephone or cable tv's on it,it's a bitch,or an open wire secondary with a transformer,too. another thing you'll find out is that your locked into position wherever your at going up the pole and with this piece of junk you'll be shakeing the poles alot. if a primary is loose or an insulater is on the edge of breaking,the final nudge will be this thing. it is a fine TRAINING device,but thats it.if you need a double safety on a highline,wear one. i do, when the situation calls for it. but for climbing 35 foot service poles in the rear of to do service change outs,PLEASE.we had 5 younger guys cut themselves while practicing for the rodeo last year,and this is the companys answer. don't make rodeo standards higher,just make linework harder. good luck with this one brothers, we are bitching about it all we can. :eek:

[mscheuerer]

nothing worst than seeing a brother on the ground,,,,,,,,,if this helps us ,,,why not use it,,,,,,,,,,,I climb every day ,,just had back surgery ,was off for a year and a half.this may be combersom,but if it works ?why not

I would suggest checking with your local on climbing iced poles to begin with. I'm sure theres a safety factor present. I know our CBA forbids it (let alone working in the rain....) We work mostly out of the bucket but have to climb from time to time. Freehand is our prefered method as long as safety doesn't interfere.

http://www.ibew94.org/files/Electric%20CBA%20PSEG-IBEW%20Local%2094.pdf

[eskimo]

If you have to use one the Jelco Pole Choker 3 is the way to go. The Buck Squeeze will do just that squeeze your hips.
The Buckingham product squeezes your hips by going into an hour glass figure while being used the JPC3 won't. The JPC4 is for climbing icey poles and is to much grab for climbing during the summer. They used to run about a buck a foot.
Danial Shawn Martin the Safety Director for Northern Utilities is the one who implimented the 100% for NU to follow.
This after one of their apes fell twenty feet out of a tower. He only got bruised and instead of going up the ladder with the JL and Foreman on the crew like it should be. D. Shawn Marin had a knee jerk reaction and came up with the 100% like their neighbor National Grid.
I was there when they had the meeting with one of the contractors and so was D. Shawn Martin as he likes to be called. I call him P. Town Butch for his butch hair cut with mouse. P. Town comes from the queer capital Provincetown,Ma
We had a Grounding class scheduled so they dropped the 100% fall protection in to fill the morning.
We had the 100% first with a rep. from Buckingham there to demonstrate. We all tried the device and instantly hated it. P. Town Butch asked to sit in the Grounding class, the instructor complied.
Second we had the Grounding class. As we went through the personal, single point and equipment, we finally got to the running grounds and grounding blocks while stringing wire. As the instuctor was going through some diagrams, P. Town Butch stood up with his hand up and got the attention of the instuctor. "Can I ask a question?" asked P.Town. "Yes, what may I help you with" replied the instructor.
P. Town walked up to the diagram which showed a typical stringing set up, puller, first block out, secound block if more than 2500 feet and the last block then the tensioner, complete with equipment grounds, mats and running grounds. Mind you this room is full of Lineman, GF's , Supervisors, Directors, a room with a lot of years of line experience.
P. Town Butch asks " Now where would the Kellem be in this picture? I have one on my desk that we had a problem with and I would like to know where it would be during the pull?"
The room was silent. This is the Director of Safety asking. How the instructor kept his composure is a credit to him.
I would have said "On the end of the wire dumbass"
But this is an example of the kind of people coming up with these rules and implimenting them.
Eskimo

[edski104]

and that about sums it up,doesn't it,men. we are being fed rules and regs by a bunch of assholes who know nothing what-so-ever about linework. insurance and the bottom line is all that matters. all the skill is going away. the nerds want everyone who couldn't be a lineman and past the test to be able to do it now by passing so many rules that a 3 year old could do it. no thinking, no knowledge,just do as your told. what a bunch of crap. and with grid being as big as it is, no one is seeing a problem with an english company owning the power supply of the entire northeastern united states? am i just too paranoid or with grid coming down so hard on their hands for talking out of line,maybe not.just a thought.:eek:

[PA BEN]

:confused: The fear of falling!!

[old lineman]

I see that lots of companies are going right ahead and purchasing the Bucksqweeze and there is no mention of comparison testing going on between one brand and another.
I believe that this is a huge mistake!
Would you by a car without a test drive? Why aren't these employers letting the linemen pick between one and the other. A good test run would help the linemen accept this new concept a lot quicker. And the company would win by getting a product the linemen prefer.
Mind you I fully understand that lots of linemen will never like them but the new guys will break into the trade with them and they will master them like the old guys mastered climbing in the first place.
What's a fellow to do when the company say's here's your new fall protection use it. You can bitch and complain all you want but it will be a condition of employment and either your with us or against us.
Where did I hear that before?
Eventually this will be nationwide.
Why not be smart and get the one that's got the right design, honestly The Pole Choker has been developed over at least fifteen years.
Linemen were involved in every step of the way. They realized it was coming and they were powerless to stop it.
So they put their best foot forward and helped in the design instead of standing in the way.
I do not sell these things but I've been around them long enough, watched them being used long enough and heard enough discussion between linemen to know their 1st choice.
If the employer has bought into this don't fight it, you can't win. In fact you may win by not seeing a brother fall and be injured.
The Old Lineman

[dbrown20]

I cannot believe that any normally coordinated person cannot be taught to climb a pole with his safety around the pole in the "hitchhiking" or "arkansawing" method and never fall. I have used this method for years and have never fallen. I don't think I ever saw a high line person that didn't use this method most of the time. It is as natural as falling off a log. Sure, on a new pole or on a non windy day, free climb away. The ways things are going they are trying to make it possible for anyone to do this work. Well I don't think just everybody is cut out for this profession. The ones who never become decent climbers should be encouraged to try something else. I am relieved that I am retiring soon and don't have to hear such silly things discussed.

Saw a discussion in a safety magazine once about a cable guy who had fallen and was paralyzed from the waist down. He took the company to court and they had to purchase a bucket truck that was handicap accessible so he could keep on doing the work. Makes about as much sense as the Buck Squeeze. dbrown20

[scammy]

I am part of cro,,customer reliability operations ,24/7if there is an outage ,we work ,weather we climb or bucket. rain or whatever..also ice,,we are not asphalt lineman,I dont really think this thing weighs 20 lbs,,maybe 2,,and as for old school thinking ,,which is ok ,,the new generation of line man will think more of going home to mama every night, we will use more rubber and whatever it takes ,,to be safe ,,scammy

[Koga]

Why dont they( the safety geeks and purcasing agents) ask a lineman to test em ande decide before they buy and make use of equipment a written in stone rule. Cause the rep from the co. that makes it or the supplier that sells it and showed it to em, took em out for lunch and wined and dined em. The reps didn't want to waste time and money on working lineman. How many co. reps ever called you trying to sell you something. Me ???.....never!! Except an insurance policy.

Koga

[old lineman]

Why dont they( the safety geeks and purcasing agents) ask a lineman to test em ande decide before they buy and make use of equipment a written in stone rule. Cause the rep from the co. that makes it or the supplier that sells it and showed it to em, took em out for lunch and wined and dined em. The reps didn't want to waste time and money on working lineman. How many co. reps ever called you trying to sell you something. Me ???.....never!! Except an insurance policy.

Koga

I think I have a little more insight than your average lineman because I just went through a process trying to sell equipment (my company) and got no where. Heres the part that hurts the most.
My products are superior to my competition in everyway. The products were rejected because the utility has a relationship with the old supplier of products and decided to stay with them even though they really are inferior.
I can't break that barrier and truth be known linemen were involved but purchasing made the final decision.
Most companies hate to change suppliers. That's just bull headedness.
Personally I would love to see linemen assigned the task of trying equipment and sitting in a meeting after the test period and reporting their findings.
Linemen are intelligent individuals and would make the best choices without all this wining and dining.
The down side is that managers would have to pay for their own meals.
The up side is that all linemen in the company would feel that they were part of the system and that their opinion counted. What an awesome thing lineman feeling like he had a say. Can you visualize that.
The Old Lineman

[Orgnizdlbr]

I think I have a little more insight than your average lineman because I just went through a process trying to sell equipment (my company) and got no where. Heres the part that hurts the most.
My products are superior to my competition in everyway. The products were rejected because the utility has a relationship with the old supplier of products and decided to stay with them even though they really are inferior.
I can't break that barrier and truth be known linemen were involved but purchasing made the final decision.
Most companies hate to change suppliers. That's just bull headedness.
Personally I would love to see linemen assigned the task of trying equipment and sitting in a meeting after the test period and reporting their findings.
Linemen are intelligent individuals and would make the best choices without all this wining and dining.
The down side is that managers would have to pay for their own meals.
The up side is that all linemen in the company would feel that they were part of the system and that their opinion counted. What an awesome thing lineman feeling like he had a say. Can you visualize that.
The Old Lineman


OL, do you have a catalog? Who manufactures your equipment?

[thrasher]

There are some problems with linemen sitting on a purchase decision. I routinely ask linemen their opinion of new equipment. I will relate three experiences.
When Hastings first came out with their triangular hot sticks I was looking to replace two sticks that had failed dielectric testing. So I got a demo and gave it to the linemen to use for two weeks. I got one comment back from a lead that he liked it a lot. No other comments good or bad. So I bought two, turns out there is only one lineman on the whole site that likes it. Have since gone back to buying the standard round sticks.
We looked at some hand rachet cutters. I saw no real difference between them but I got several linemen asking for one particular model, so we bought that. Later overheard them talking and they picked it since it was the most expensive and they wanted to make the company spend the most money. In actual fact they usually used a different brand of older cutters that were on only some of the trucks. I now buy only the older brand.
The one time it did work right was with the first battery powered compression tool we bought. Saw demos of several, brought in the one I liked for a two week trial. Then asked for written comments back from all the linemen who used it. We bought it and I still haven't heard any complaint other than battery life (which was the same as the other brands).
So linemen sitting in don't always make it right nor do they always make it wrong, they should have a say but not always the final say.

[duckhunter]

Thrasher it suprises me to see you write that a group of linemen can't come up with the same conclusion about a piece of equipment. The guys here all love the same trucks, hooks, belts, hoists, gloves, shirts. We are just one big happy family here.

[old lineman]

There are some problems with linemen sitting on a purchase decision. I routinely ask linemen their opinion of new equipment. I will relate three experiences.
When Hastings first came out with their triangular hot sticks I was looking to replace two sticks that had failed dielectric testing. So I got a demo and gave it to the linemen to use for two weeks. I got one comment back from a lead that he liked it a lot. No other comments good or bad. So I bought two, turns out there is only one lineman on the whole site that likes it. Have since gone back to buying the standard round sticks.
We looked at some hand rachet cutters. I saw no real difference between them but I got several linemen asking for one particular model, so we bought that. Later overheard them talking and they picked it since it was the most expensive and they wanted to make the company spend the most money. In actual fact they usually used a different brand of older cutters that were on only some of the trucks. I now buy only the older brand.
The one time it did work right was with the first battery powered compression tool we bought. Saw demos of several, brought in the one I liked for a two week trial. Then asked for written comments back from all the linemen who used it. We bought it and I still haven't heard any complaint other than battery life (which was the same as the other brands).
So linemen sitting in don't always make it right nor do they always make it wrong, they should have a say but not always the final say.

I must be missing something here.
You give your linemen brothers a chance to participate and they shit in your hand? No wonder they are excluded from the process. Sad isn't it?
Boy these guys have sunk awfully low haven't they?
What kind of a working environment do you have? It seems to be very hostile to me.
Nobody wins in that.
Most of the linemen I used to work with were honest, hard working and by that they commanded respect and it was given. Oh, yes there were bad apples but they were never given the task of working with management to solve problems. This type of personality just wants to shove sticks into the spokes.
Where did they all go?
The Old Lineman

[dbrown20]

I have climbed at night alot. I have climbed icey poles in night and day. The hitch hike method never failed me. I climbed a lot in Nebraska and Wyoming so I have experienced my share of icey poles. They even have them here in Okla. The main thing is to not get in a big hurry and of course beat the ice off as you go up. Someone who has to have a special device is not a good or confident climber in my book. I have seen people who have climbed for decades and they were not good climbers. These type of people need to forget about the money they make and just realize they're not cut out for this work.

The short triangular hastings stick commonly used from a bucket is hands down superior to the short round one. Now the extendo, another take. A triangular extendo is very much harder to use that the round one. dbrown20

[edski104]

the bucksqeeze was brought about by a niagra mohock/national grid lineman cutting out climbing an icey highline pole. grid being the pussys that they are,i've worked for them, so i know their safety rules,so don't try to tell me anything about how they work transmission, so they asked buckingham to come up with a way to stop ANYONE FROM EVER FALLING AGAIN. the bucksqeeze is their answer. it really does suck ass. the only recomendation it had was from it being used by grid. and as a training tool by a few other companys. it seems as if the company would have looked into other avenues of fall protection before deciding on this one thing. the job being what it is, the insurance companys are writing the rules. 100% lock from bottom to top and back. you do get tired. swaping the 2 safetys you have to carry with you gets to be a bitch. i've never used the pole shark,seen pictures of it,tho.is it really that much better? what is the price? maybe we can get these boys to give us a choice.any info would be most welcome. thanks

[old lineman]

the bucksqeeze was brought about by a niagra mohock/national grid lineman cutting out climbing an icey highline pole. grid being the pussys that they are,i've worked for them, so i know their safety rules,so don't try to tell me anything about how they work transmission, so they asked buckingham to come up with a way to stop ANYONE FROM EVER FALLING AGAIN. the bucksqeeze is their answer. it really does suck ass. the only recomendation it had was from it being used by grid. and as a training tool by a few other companys. it seems as if the company would have looked into other avenues of fall protection before deciding on this one thing. the job being what it is, the insurance companys are writing the rules. 100% lock from bottom to top and back. you do get tired. swaping the 2 safetys you have to carry with you gets to be a bitch. i've never used the pole shark,seen pictures of it,tho.is it really that much better? what is the price? maybe we can get these boys to give us a choice.any info would be most welcome. thanks


Niagara Mohawk wasn't the first just one of many. Every one of these units will cost about $500.00 each, give or take.
It's a huge investment so get it right. No company will replace them quickly once they have commited.
The Old Lineman

[PSE Lineman]

"Saw a discussion in a safety magazine once about a cable guy who had fallen and was paralyzed from the waist down. He took the company to court and they had to purchase a bucket truck that was handicap accessible so he could keep on doing the work. Makes about as much sense as the Buck Squeeze. dbrown20"


In Washington State , if you can't rescue a dummy from the hooks once a year, you don't have a job anymore , period. Is it the same everywhere else? Are cable guys exempt from pole top rescue? I have a picture of a cable guy working under a transformer that was ready to fall off the pole. I stopped to take it and he got down from the ladder he was on before I could catch him up there under it on camera....he was there to fix his drop. A car had hit the pole in the night. He said he didn't notice the transformer ready to fall. I know this is a streatch from the butt squeeze , but D. Brown started it with a handicapped bucket...

[old lineman]

I just recieved some stats for you guys to chew on.
These stats are mostly the general work force across all of industry but at the bottom are the stats for the utility workers in Ontario, Canada.
This is a report for the LTI (lost time injuries) experienced per 100 workers for a year on average.
________________________________
USA 4.7 workers experiencing LTI
MEXICO 3.0 " " "
CANADA 2.0 " " "
AUSTRALIA 1.2 " " "
ONTARIO .8 " " " (utility workers only)
It has been said that Ontario, Canada is the safest place in the world to work. I've never seen these stats before but if this is correct perhaps it is.
There is a huge unrelenting initiative to bring LTI's to zero by 2011.
That's a lofty goal but even if it's missed lots more people are going home at the end of the day uninjured. That's the target.
The bottom line is that safe companies are some of the most profitable.
Examples are Dupont and Proctor & Gamble. These companies are world renowned for their safety programs and are still are very profitable.
Back to the topic of these posts.
The Ontario lineman MUST wear fall protection from ground to ground. The only tool that can be used to access an elevated work position without wearing fall protection while ascending and descending is the portable ladder. Once in position though fall protection must be utilized.
This is evidence that investing in training and safety equipment is affordable after all. In our business that would be formal training for the apprentices, FR clothing, AED's on the line trucks and last but not least fall protection for pole climbing (any brand you want or don't want) along with all of the other required PPE.
I had to get that in somehow. Sorry.
The Old Lineman

[old lineman]

"Saw a discussion in a safety magazine once about a cable guy who had fallen and was paralyzed from the waist down. He took the company to court and they had to purchase a bucket truck that was handicap accessible so he could keep on doing the work. Makes about as much sense as the Buck Squeeze. dbrown20"


In Washington State , if you can't rescue a dummy from the hooks once a year, you don't have a job anymore , period. Is it the same everywhere else? Are cable guys exempt from pole top rescue? I have a picture of a cable guy working under a transformer that was ready to fall off the pole. I stopped to take it and he got down from the ladder he was on before I could catch him up there under it on camera....he was there to fix his drop. A car had hit the pole in the night. He said he didn't notice the transformer ready to fall. I know this is a streatch from the butt squeeze , but D. Brown started it with a handicapped bucket...

Larry the cable guy normally workers alone. Who would rescue him if he got injured?
I don't believe that's right but that's reality.
The Old Lineman

[Koga]

this was "Power Lineman.com" Not cable worker or Ma bell worker.com. I havent seen one of those in hooks in ......:confused: Well I can't even remember the last time. If they cant climb 15' to 18' up the cleanest part of a pole with out some kind of fall protection on thier pussy ass then they don't have any buisness with a set of hooks and the co.wasted money in training.:cool:

Koga

[mscheuerer]

It has been said that Ontario, Canada is the safest place in the world to work. I've never seen these stats before but if this is correct perhaps it is.

You think thats bad, in Canada your not even ALLOWED to work on maintain or install your own electric or devices. They own and maintain everything from soup to nuts.

[mscheuerer]

Well mr. brown,
I been retired 5 years, and "such silly things" are, and will always be discussed among Linemen.
Least if you still plan on bein on this board when you retire.

I like to think I can talk bout "Old Linework" and the way we "Use" to do things, and maby, the youngens comin up in the trade, might get an "idea" or 2...bout how to do stuff. Sometimes the "old way", that's been forgotten, just might be a bit easier.

As for the "handicap accessible" bucket.

I'd have to call "Bullshit" on that one man.

Handicaped from "the waist down"? That's Wheel Chair man. I'd like to see the Bucket that is equipped to let a wheel chair roll into it.

Not.:D

ME TOOO!!!!! - DBROWN - GET THE ARTICLE FROM THE MAG YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND POST IT!!!

[dbrown20]

I would call bullshit on quite a bit of the crap you post. Remember when you insisted that you float the high side on a Wye/Wye? I called bullshit on that at the time and you insisted.

When I read that article about 20 years or so ago I did not file the magazine away. But I clearly remember it. The only detail I remember is the guy had the nickname of "Horse". I expect eventually it will ring a bell with someone maybe.



As for you swampgas, you must have started linework in about 1910. You keep talking about "back in the day". You have never worked on Transmission lines and supposedly worked in Saudi for quite some time. Well I think you are a "one trick pony". dbrown20

[old lineman]

I would call bullshit on quite a bit of the crap you post. Remember when you insisted that you float the high side on a Wye/Wye? I called bullshit on that at the time and you insisted.

When I read that article about 20 years or so ago I did not file the magazine away. But I clearly remember it. The only detail I remember is the guy had the nickname of "Horse". I expect eventually it will ring a bell with someone maybe.



As for you swampgas, you must have started linework in about 1910. You keep talking about "back in the day". You have never worked on Transmission lines and supposedly worked in Saudi for quite some time. Well I think you are a "one trick pony". dbrown20

Oh, oh here were go, off on a tangent again.
The Old Lineman

[old lineman]

You think thats bad, in Canada your not even ALLOWED to work on maintain or install your own electric or devices. They own and maintain everything from soup to nuts.

How goofy rumors can get. Of course you just can't install your electrical system (house wiring I'm guessing thats what you mean) thats an electricians job.
If you know what your doing, go ahead and install it but you have to have it inspected before it's heated up. Seems reasonable to me.
You know what kind of idiots would tackle a job like that. Would you want to buy that house and move your loved ones into it. Somehow I don't think thats bad.
As for who owns it. Who in hell do you think owns it. The property owner.
Think before you speak.
The Old Lineman

[dbrown20]

this was "Power Lineman.com" Not cable worker or Ma bell worker.com. I havent seen one of those in hooks in ......:confused: Well I can't even remember the last time. If they cant climb 15' to 18' up the cleanest part of a pole with out some kind of fall protection on thier pussy ass then they don't have any buisness with a set of hooks and the co.wasted money in training.:cool:

Koga

I see them climb all the time Glen. I think though they are contractors working for the cable co. and installing OH cable. The reg. cable guys though I agree, I can't remember when I've seen one of them climb. dbrown20

[dbrown20]

you insisted that Thomas Edison grunted for you when you were working on that DC grid.

I started Electrical linework in Jan. 1971. I had worked 4 yrs for Ma. Bell before that. Now 1971 is not so long ago. I have run across people my age who started linework in the late 50's.

It is a known fact that the single phase portion of a Wye/Wye is not useable. Anyone who insists other wise, I would have to call Bullshit. If you built one or whatever it was in error and the only useable portion was the 3 phase. dbrown20

[dbrown20]

They built one like that here where I live. It's a muni. After burning up a lot of single phase devices the supt. told the crews to ground down everything. So they built Wye/Delta 3 pot banks with the high side grounded to the system neutral. Stupid.

I can never recall working anywhere that they told you how they wanted a bank wired. The voltage desired was stated and we built accordingly. 480 ungrounded delta, grounded delta, 208 wye,480 wye etc. dbrown20

[linemanfrog]

you insisted that Thomas Edison grunted for you when you were working on that DC grid.

I started Electrical linework in Jan. 1971. I had worked 4 yrs for Ma. Bell before that. Now 1971 is not so long ago. I have run across people my age who started linework in the late 50's.

It is a known fact that the single phase portion of a Wye/Wye is not useable. Anyone who insists other wise, I would have to call Bullshit. If you built one or whatever it was in error and the only useable portion was the 3 phase. dbrown20

Actually dbrown you can pull a single phase service off of a 3 pot bank wired wye wye 120/208. You have to check the customers electric devices to ensure that they will work with 208 instead of 240 though. The other thing you have to do is set a network meter so that the customer is billed correctly. You wire the TX bank the same and just hook the service up to two of the TXs.

On another note you can also have a wye wye bank 120/240/208. It is wired the same as a wye wye bank with the exception of the center TX. For instance if your 2 wing TXs are 25 KVA you hang a 50 KVA for the center TX and do not parallel the windings on the 50. You make all other connections the same. Then you can have 3 phase 120/208. Where the 120/240 comes in is off of the 50KVA since the windings are not paralleled. I have never seen this in the field and would probably never build this bank but our transformer supply company did a demo on this type of bank at one of the rodeos. I know it sounds like bullshit but it worked in the demo.

[Stick-it]

I just built a 120/240/208 the other day. We call them 7-11 banks because 7-11 stores use them a lot.

[dbrown20]

.Frog I know you can pull a single phase from a 208 bank. Have seen it done several times.

What we were talking about is "floating" the high side of a 208 Wye/Wye bank. That creates a screwed up situation with no neutral reference and it has caused many burn ups of customer equipment. This is a mistake when it is done.

Stickit, make sure you know what you are referring to. By talking about a 120/240/208 you are speaking of a delta secondary that has one pot center tapped and it yields 2 lighting legs of 120 volts and one single phase circuit of 240 volts. It yields 3 phases of 240 volts. The 208 you are speaking about is the phase to ground reading of the "wild leg". When read phase to phase it will read 240 and it is normally only used in the 3 phase circuit only.

Frog the thing you speak of is in many transformer books. Yes you can get 3 phase 208 and single phase 120/240 from the same 3 pots. Not unheard of.

Swampgas. If you and that dumb engineer had done a little basic arithmetic you would have understood the xmas lights. 25 watt lights ever 3 foot in a 250 foot length of cord would have come to about 80 lights. 80 times 25 equals 2000 watts. Divide 2000 by the voltage of 120 volts and you get 16.6 amps. Round it off to 17 amps and 17 amps don't seem a hellofa lot for #10 gauge cu. What a couple of dummies. dbrown20

[eskimo]

And which one of you touch holes fell off the pole with out your bucksqueeze while hooking up this bank?:p

[woody]

and really...DB... why and better yet... what are your motives on picking on swamp? He's never sold himself as a web brainiac or anything... just a retired lineman... period! Enjoy your posts for their informative nature... but do you really want to go BACK? I remember several stories and posts that YOU posted that pretty much ran people that you worked with into the ground... or under the bus so to speak these days. Like i said... enjoy your posts for the info... don't respect ya tho... woody

["little beaver"]

"Ya know, I don't think you and I would have worked real good together on the same crew.
You're just too "intelligent" for my taste."

Actually, You and I and Brownie would probably work really well together; Lots of Fun.

[woody]

A little bit of knowledege is good... unless spoken down to the masses with nothing but personal recognition and all the brouhaha... I'm GREATER than so and so... geeez. Been away... woody

["little beaver"]

And which one of you touch holes fell off the pole with out your bucksqueeze while hooking up this bank?:p

Hey Esk, They were saying the above in the 60's. Did you ever hear of Dana Gordan or Everett Tyler? I worked with them for Penn Line Service in 1971. They had both worked previous for Read. Both VERY good guys to work with.

Dana had been with Force Recon in Nam and was still working out the Demons. He later got me a good job with Granite Constr. Dana got burnt in Charlestown, NH. and was not same after.

["little beaver"]

What I met by 'They were saying the same in the 60's' was that Raymond, NH was the Lineman's Capitol of the World. I wasn't necessary agreeing with the quote!!

[woody]

Have an open mind to everything( who am I to judge or to teach?)... the older I get the less I have to say. Teach those that want to learn and ignore the rest. Really simple where I come from and.... better yet been. Don't mean that to be the end all of end all's. Wish I had the patience of other's and the wisdom of some... in the end guess i'm just average... don't wanna be the best... just retire with what I came with into this trade. woody

[Mouse]

Looking to get one, heard the Buckingham one is junk(releases and lets slack into the belt when you lean back, that'll wake you up in the morning!) from Old Lineman, the Pole Choker sounds pretty good and the web site is informative, www.jelco.ca, but it costs $431.13, are there any others?

[Mouse]

Salisbury apparently stopped making their version as well. . .

[dbrown20]

I think the stories that I posted about those people in the past were well deserved. If you had worked with them and had to have been on guard around them you might appreciate my contempt. When you work with people for several years and have to correct their screwups on a regular basis then you develope a certain disrespect for them.

As for the higher math. Give me a break. The thing on the lights was grade school arithmetic and can be found in any Kurtz book. Anyone who cannot figure out basic arithmetic in this trade needs to come up to speed. How about figuring the full load primary current on a pot? Most everybody can do that. It's not rocket science.

On some of the stuff Woody. You'd have to have been there. dbrown20

[Stick-it]

[QUOTE=dbrown20;26244].Frog I know you can pull a single phase from a 208 bank. Have seen it done several times.

What we were talking about is "floating" the high side of a 208 Wye/Wye bank. That creates a screwed up situation with no neutral reference and it has caused many burn ups of customer equipment. This is a mistake when it is done.

Stickit, make sure you know what you are referring to. By talking about a 120/240/208 you are speaking of a delta secondary that has one pot center tapped and it yields 2 lighting legs of 120 volts and one single phase circuit of 240 volts. It yields 3 phases of 240 volts. The 208 you are speaking about is the phase to ground reading of the "wild leg". When read phase to phase it will read 240 and it is normally only used in the 3 phase circuit only.


Incorrect -

I am talking about a wye/wye 120/208 3 phase with 120/240 single phase. The two outside pots are 120 (paralleled coils) and the center is a series coil 120/240 standard pot to get your single phase. And no, I have never heard of floating the high side of a wye/wye.

[dbrown20]

Yes I know of what you speak. This comes in handy and have done it about 2 times in this situation. A 208 three phase with a leaking pot. Without killing it out to change just paralleled the leaker with the open wire nearby that was feeding from a single phase pot. You have to pick the coil side of the single phase that will go with your 208 pot. Works slick. As far as the 2 pots with their coils paralled with an accompanied standard pot. Yep I know of that.

Here's one you don't see too often. A 3 pot 480 bank with a straight 3 phase delta can also yield 3 phase 240 volt delta. Have seen this twice in irrigation setups. All you do is place taps on the X2 bushings. What's weird is it can be done with 2 pots also. dbrown20

[old lineman]

Looking to get one, heard the Buckingham one is junk(releases and lets slack into the belt when you lean back, that'll wake you up in the morning!) from Old Lineman, the Pole Choker sounds pretty good and the web site is informative, www.jelco.ca, but it costs $431.13, are there any others?

I don't want to pour water on anyone's parade but you can end your search at Jelco.
Many have tried and many have failed, the lone survivor that's well designed (but disliked by many nevertheless) is the Pole Choker.
Let's not fool ourselves Hydro Quebec was behind the research and poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. I'm sure no one will ever know the true cost of development but no other company could compete, even Buckingham.
The Old Lineman

[polemonkey]

Looking to get one, heard the Buckingham one is junk(releases and lets slack into the belt when you lean back, that'll wake you up in the morning!) from Old Lineman, the Pole Choker sounds pretty good and the web site is informative, www.jelco.ca, but it costs $431.13, are there any others?

mouse, Ive been forced to start climbing with the bucksqueese or (puss sqeese) about a year ago. I dont know how much it cost but its not to bad after you get used to it

[Dbearman]

Where is the pole choker available at the best price ? I have been quoted a price over $500.00 the places I checked for a pole choker # 4. The extra retractable safety strap box was quoted at $ 169.00. Thats a Hell of alot of money for a safety strap. Are these prices correct or is there a better price to be found ? If this is the correct price , good luck on selling any !!

[mscheuerer]

How goofy rumors can get. Of course you just can't install your electrical system (house wiring I'm guessing thats what you mean) thats an electricians job.
If you know what your doing, go ahead and install it but you have to have it inspected before it's heated up. Seems reasonable to me.
You know what kind of idiots would tackle a job like that. Would you want to buy that house and move your loved ones into it. Somehow I don't think thats bad.
As for who owns it. Who in hell do you think owns it. The property owner.
Think before you speak.
The Old Lineman

Once again....YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO THERE...EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING...THEY DON'T ALLOW HOMEOWNERS TO DO IT PERIOD. UNLIKE HOMEOWNER INSPECTIONS HERE IN THE STATES.

That is the most supidest comment I ever read....I feel like I could build a bridge too but do you see me doing it???....C'mon man, get off the GERITOL!

Next time why don't you READ before you SPEAK!

:eek:

[old lineman]

Where is the pole choker available at the best price ? I have been quoted a price over $500.00 the places I checked for a pole choker # 4. The extra retractable safety strap box was quoted at $ 169.00. Thats a Hell of alot of money for a safety strap. Are these prices correct or is there a better price to be found ? If this is the correct price , good luck on selling any !!

I'm with you about the price. It seems too much and I'd be on the hunt for the best price. But the cost would not stop me.
The web might be the best area to look.
But let's see what this price really means.
$500 for the Pole Choker, $170 for the retractable = $670
This equipment would safely last 5 years and more probably over 10 years.
Worst case scenario $670 > by 5 = $135 a year > 250 work days a year = $.55 a day.
That's 55 cents a day for your protection and half of that if it lasts 10 years.
Peanuts in the whole scheme of things don't you think? Good luck your on the right track.
The Old Lineman

[eskimo]

What I met by 'They were saying the same in the 60's' was that Raymond, NH was the Lineman's Capitol of the World. I wasn't necessary agreeing with the quote!!

Well the quote you weren't necessarily agreeing with was for their getting off the track on the the buck squeeze(tongue in cheek)
As for the men you refered to, they sound familiar but probably came up in some of the many stories that get shared here Raymond,NH
I used to hang out at the two clubs that were here and was banded from the one that remains. It's been quite some time since I've been out on the scene.
But Raymond gets that capital thing due to the fact that there are a lot of lineman that live here along with two contractors and one Co-Op that make Raymond their home.

[eskimo]

Where is the pole choker available at the best price ? I have been quoted a price over $500.00 the places I checked for a pole choker # 4. The extra retractable safety strap box was quoted at $ 169.00. Thats a Hell of alot of money for a safety strap. Are these prices correct or is there a better price to be found ? If this is the correct price , good luck on selling any !!

You won't need the #4 for summer climbing, to much grab, it's disigned for icey poles.
The retractable isn't necessary unless you don't own a scare strap already. It's made for temporarily possitioning yourself on the pole while passing the polechoker or bucksqueeze. Your old scare as long as it has locking safeties will do just fine.
Check into who's requirering that you have to wear such a piece of equipment. If the power company is then it's up to the contractor to supply it. It falls under Fall Protection and like your harness the contractor or the power company is responsible to supply it. Depends who you work for.
Three Phase Line a company out here tried to do it. They issued every lineman a belt and retractable and were going to take the money out of the checks a little at a time, made us sign for them.
One of our brothers stepped up and went to the hall and got it straighten out, no charge to the lineman. Plus we didn't have to have that damn thing in our drag bag when we drug up. That carved up the X-mas bonuses for the hands that usually follow that outfit.
Do your research before you spend any money.

[dbrown20]

On these chokers you guys are talking about? These companies don't expect the linemen to furnish their own do they? Very expensive, looks to me like. dbrown20

[loodvig]

I used to hang out at the two clubs that were here and was banded from the one that remains. It's been quite some time since I've been out on the scene.

Um, that wouldn't be the 'Longbranch' would it? Been there, done that!

[suddsy]

natural selection, you cant engineer out stupidity, when they do, little robots will build and maitain the lines for us. If you cant stay on the pole stay a groundman

[LostArt]

LA is laughing at the posts of Stick-it, "I quit!" And at KOGA's remark of kissin' his. But, continues reading and pulls up the link on this uh.... "bucksqueeze". After looking at the contraption and reading what it is, she yells to the Boss who is watching the Super Bowl and catnapping...."DEAR!! Do you know what a bucksqueeze is?" He asks again what and she repeats, "A BUCKSQUEEZE!!" He finally remarks, "Dear, please don't buy any exercising equiptment on line, okay? We don't have room in the garage for it." She is now in fits of laughter and giggles. She comes to the conclusion that the boss has no idea what a bucksqueeze is either and continues to enjoy the ruckus between DBrown and Swamp.

[DaveQ]

I climb with one and LIKE it:o And I use the "seat belt" also by choice:D Let the flamming begen:D :D

[Stick-it]

that is great. use one if you want, i don't care. don't tell me that i HAVE TO use one or else. it should be up to me if i want to use one.

["little beaver"]

that is great. use one if you want, i don't care. don't tell me that i HAVE TO use one or else. it should be up to me if i want to use one.

The same for me Stick, it'll be 39 yrs for me this May. I'm semi-retired working for the Oil Companies. I rarely climb. When I get so 'hopeless', I have to use such a ridculous device to climb a pole, you guessed it, "They can 'stick-it'!!!"

[eskimo]

I used to hang out at the two clubs that were here and was banded from the one that remains. It's been quite some time since I've been out on the scene.

Um, that wouldn't be the 'Longbranch' would it? Been there, done that!

Yes the Longbranch, Silver Fox, Early Times (Tailgate), VFW. Now the only two in town are Teddy's and the VFW. If they gave you shares for every drink the Tailgate would have been mine via majority share holder:rolleyes:

[old horseman]

Currently National Grid wants the buck squeeze to used whenever possible. But they have found that it hurts the bottom line. Not as much production as they would like. It takes a lot of skill and patients to master this contraption. National Grid has revamped thier policy regarding the use of the device. If the formandetermines that the bucksqueeze is impracticle or unsafe to use then it must be discussed and documented on the tailboard and everyone signs. If you fall and get hurt and are not wearing the the device then they could potentally not cover your medical cost. If you fall and get hurt and its documented on the tailboard then tere will be an investigation to determine if the right call was made the forman could hang. I personally can't get the hang of the dang thing, so I get the backyard poles that are in the corner surronded by a fence with shed next to it and rusted steps along with cable tv, ma bell and open wire secondaires including xformers. The youngins who are experts on thing get all the clean poles . So much for progress:)

[moose]

We got it, and don't like it!!! At least the majority that I have spoken with. Need to have the combo harness that JELCO advertises on its web site. From experience I found out. When you do cut out on a pole, butt-squeeze will stop you, but your belt goes up to your chest. You have to tighten up your belt so tight that it cuts off the circulation in your legs if you are up a pole for a spell!:eek: Alot of service men are ordering 14' extension ladders so they can work a 40' trans pole off it.:rolleyes: Supervisor came in the other day and asked if anyone wanted to be in the rodeo, same response from everyone, not if we have to use butt-squeeze!!!

[tramp67]

Dbrown20, your floating primary neutral bus runs rampant up here in Alaska! The 4th cutout on the pole is connected between the system neutral and the bank primary neutral bus. Close in neutral cutout first, then close in phases, and finally open neutral cutout. When de-energizing a bank, close in neutral cutout, then open phases. This arrangement really cuts down on the excitement you sometimes get when closing in a bank with the primary neutral bus not connected to anything. And yes, you do lose your ground reference on the primary side as soon as you open the neutral cutout.
As far as the buttstop, where's the fun of climbing if you don't ever have the opportunity to ride the pole!?