Evolution is a Religion do you believe in it Swamp?

[CenterPointEX]

It takes blind faith to believe Evolution. More faith than it takes to beleive in God. So I just wondered does anybody here still believe it? The Scopes trials evidence was a single tooth... It was held up and heralded as the "missing link"... One tooth? We now know this tooth to be that of an extinct pig? Out of that one tooth a monkeyman was made. If you go to any museum of natural science you will find examples of monkeymen in different stages of transition to man. Pick just any one of those apemen and look at what fossils were found when and where and come back and report your findings. Lucy, Peking Man, austrailaphihicus, Nebraska Man, Piltdown man, java man... etc... Pick one, research the evidence and get back with me Swamp. you will find that all of them were fakes. Things like they found a fragment of skull, a year later fifty feet deeper two hundred yards away a knee joint. How about the knee belonged to a human, and the skull fragment to an ape... ? But from this they said the ape walked upright and used tools? From these two pieces an ape man was constructed and still resides in museums and science books today even though they now know the true nature of these fosils... Why would they do that? Because the alternative is unthinkable.

D.H. Kenyen the leading scientist in the feild of Chemical Evolution has been banned from teaching his findings in California.

[CenterPointEX]

The question was do you believe in Evolution, It takes faith to belive in Evolution. I was just wondering if you or anybody else here still beleives in this religion. This is a religion forced on us by the state. It mandated by law via the Scopes Trial that this religion of Evolution will be taught.

[CenterPointEX]

Ok, that is good, you do beleive in evolution. You say that this is a creditable explanation of mans genesis. I contend that it is not creditable. Because so far, all the evidence to that end has been discredited. All the so called ape man fossils have been out right lies and some of them fakes.

So SwampRat decendant of an Aperat... Not...

I ask, on what do you base the creditability of Evolution?

I would guess you would give an answer like it seems reasonable to me and besides the texts books say it is so... The text books lie Swamp... you can research it yourself or I can provide you with the information...

[BigClive]

When I'm on my death bed...If I accept Jesus as my savior, I'd expect Jesus to look down on me and say..."Boy, You're a lier."

Yeah, but it's worth a shot. :)

Personally I'll go with evolution. They keep digging up dinosaurs, but to the best of my knowledge they haven't dug up an angel yet. :rolleyes:

By the way, I'm not having a pop at you CP. Everyone has their own belief. I do however think your beliefs forcefulness is actually covering up something else.

[CenterPointEX]

Swamprat, you are a liar amongst your other attributes. All you got is time these days being retired and all. So, the statement you ain't got time reeks of a bad transformer. PHew! I hate the smell of fried PCB's. I will accept that you don't have the Energy or Inclination though. I understand you have doubts about the credibility of the Bible even though Historisity, Archeology , and the created order of things support it.

What I don't understand is why you believe in Evolution even though Historicity, Archeology, Paleontology, Geneology or any other science for that matter have no supporting evidence that the theory of Evolution has any credibility.


Ok, B.C. maybe you can come up with a better answer than Swamp as to what do you credit your belief in Evolution? How does dinosaur fossils being found contribute to evolution?

The following have been used in text books as evidence of Evolution. And some still are.

Ramapithagus: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=ramapithecus
a genus of extinct Miocene ape known from fossils found in India and Pakistan and formerly thought to be a possible human ancestor. An oragatang.


Peking Man: You will find him in the encyclopedia but you won't find any fossil evidence of him anywhere... Somehow fourty of these skeletons were lost before anybody could examine them.


Piltdown Man http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/piltdown%20man
a hypothetical early modern human, assigned to the genus Eoanthropus,
whose existence was inferred from skull fragments that were allegedly
found at Piltdown, England, in 1912 but were exposed as fraudulent through
chemical analysis

Java Man: In 1891 They found a Skull fragment, then fifty feet away away a year later a human leg bone. A year later around the same location they found some teeth. The skull fragment and teeth were just like a Gibbon Moneky. The leg bone just like a mans... While this location was being excavated they also found human skulls it was later revealed.

Nebraska Man: A single tooth that an Ape man was derived from and beleived by Science in 1922. It was the evidence in the Scopes Monkey Trail. It has since been determined to be a Pigs tooth.

Neanderthal Man: Has been classified as a modern Homo Sapien with arthritis which caused him to walk bent over.

Lucy: A partial skeleton of a chimp... a half a mile away they found a human knee bone... there were no skull parts found with this skeleton. They put the knee on the monkey and walla... Ape Man. Maybe... just maybe... If'n we could get somebody to examine SwampRat... Evolution could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt...

[CenterPointEX]

Swamp, again you lie, it ain't got nuttin to do with pissin... I have seen you piss... You pride yerself in being an ace cut pisser...You just see a problem with your faith... and if you loose your faith in Evolution... You got a serious problem... This is the same reason some of the above mentioned ape men are still in the Encylopedia. Because the alternative is unthinkable.

Can anybody out there give me a good reason, considering the above evidence why we should buy the threory of Evolution?

[CenterPointEX]

What is a SWAG Swamp?

Have you ever looked into the the lives of the leading Evolutionists Batts?
These guys would make Jack the Ripper look like a choir boy.


And does anybody have any information or evidence to show me that supports Evolution other than the lies posted below? Cause if you don't then you believe Evolution by faith and not by reason or evidence.


What I don't understand is why you believe in Evolution even though Historicity, Archeology, Paleontology, Geneology or any other science for that matter have no supporting evidence that the theory of Evolution has any credibility.


Ok, B.C. maybe you can come up with a better answer than Swamp as to what do you credit your belief in Evolution? How does dinosaur fossils being found contribute to evolution?

The following have been used in text books as evidence of Evolution. And some still are.

Ramapithagus: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=ramapithecus
a genus of extinct Miocene ape known from fossils found in India and Pakistan and formerly thought to be a possible human ancestor. An oragatang.


Peking Man: You will find him in the encyclopedia but you won't find any fossil evidence of him anywhere... Somehow fourty of these skeletons were lost before anybody could examine them.


Piltdown Man http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/piltdown%20man
a hypothetical early modern human, assigned to the genus Eoanthropus,
whose existence was inferred from skull fragments that were allegedly
found at Piltdown, England, in 1912 but were exposed as fraudulent through
chemical analysis

Java Man: In 1891 They found a Skull fragment, then fifty feet away away a year later a human leg bone. A year later around the same location they found some teeth. The skull fragment and teeth were just like a Gibbon Moneky. The leg bone just like a mans... While this location was being excavated they also found human skulls it was later revealed.

Nebraska Man: A single tooth that an Ape man was derived from and beleived by Science in 1922. It was the evidence in the Scopes Monkey Trail. It has since been determined to be a Pigs tooth.

Neanderthal Man: Has been classified as a modern Homo Sapien (Human) with arthritis which caused him to walk bent over.

Lucy: A partial skeleton of a chimp... a half a mile away they found a human knee bone... there were no skull parts found with this skeleton. They put the knee on the monkey and walla... Ape Man. Maybe... just maybe... If'n we could get somebody to examine SwampRat... Evolution could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt...

Face it Swamp even though there is no evidence to support Evolution you believe it... Therefor you believe it by Faith.

[CenterPointEX]

I'll trust evolution against those bible thumping queers and druggies you see going to jail for ripping off poor old ladies. Have you ever examined the lives of the leading evolutionsits Batts? Darwin... Darwins bulldogs... Huxley, Hitler... Stalin... etc.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Swamp, again you lie, it ain't got nuttin to do with pissin... I have seen you piss... You pride yerself in being an ace cut pisser...You just see a problem with your faith... and if you loose your faith in Evolution... You got a serious problem... This is the same reason some of the above mentioned ape men are still in the Encylopedia. Because the alternative is unthinkable.

Can anybody out there give me a good reason, considering the above evidence why we should buy the threory of Evolution?

Well, with religion and the Bible, you must take someone's word that the book is the way it is, blind faith. With evolution, you have cold, hard science to prove and backup the theory. An example? The bible takes us back, what, approx 4000 yrs to the garden of Eden, right? Yet dinosaur fossils carbon date back 100 million years, give or take. What gives? I thought it was a snake in the tree, not a T-Rex. No disrespect, but I have trouble buying the stories. I have always believed that organized religion was a tool to control the masses, brainwashing if you will. It is something that is most effective if it is engrained into a persons mind from a young age. If you have no religious training in your youth, it will be much harder to find it later in life. I feel that I am living proof of that. Now of course, the question always comes up: How can you explain the existence of the world? Well, I can't. Neither can you. No one knows for sure. NO ONE. But if it's any consolation, eventually we ALL will achieve enlightenment in some way, shape, or form. Right after the lid slams shut.

[CenterPointEX]

Well, with... the Bible, you must take someone's word that the book is the way it is, blind faith.

There are around 1,800 prophecys in the Bible that have come to pass. There is nothing out there that has even in the ballpark with this kind of accuracy. It takes blind faith not to beleive the Bible.

With evolution, you have cold, hard science to prove and backup the theory
There is no science; cold or hard, to back up the theory of Evolution. The above examples are what you are refering to. Peking Man, Nebraska Man, etc. They are all fakes, not science. That is a fact that Science will attest to.
. An example? The bible takes us back, what, approx 4000 yrs to the garden of Eden, right? Yet dinosaur fossils carbon date back 100 million years, give or take. What gives?
Doctor Mary Leaky found a sulfer bed in Africa from a volcanic eruption... supposedly from six million years ago... in that sulfer bed were foot prints. Rhinos, Dinosaurs, Elepahnts, and ummmm.... Humans. How does science expalain...? No, Explanation,
I thought it was a snake in the tree, not a T-Rex.
Dinosaurs are still here... They were on Noahs Ark... and you can find them in any country, in all the major cities.
Carbon dating is derived from what we know about the breakdown of carbon. We know the rate radiation breaks it down and we extrapolate that backwards. This system assumes the amount of radiation hitting the earth has been the same for the last one hundred or more million years.... That my friend is insanity. Our Sun is shrinking... if we run that formula backwards it wasn't that many million years ago that the suns outer reaches would have touched the earth.

...Where are the dinosaurs you ask?... Reptiles as long as they live never quit getting bigger... There was a set of conditions on earth prior to the flood that let men live eight or nine hundred years... Ok... let a Iguana live for three hundred years... how big will it be? The word Dinosaur means "Big Lizard". The pyramids? Hard if you only got seventy years to do it... But if you got three hundred years to think about it and three hundred years to do it... Use a Dino for labor maybe?

No disrespect, but I have trouble buying the stories. But if it's any consolation, eventually we ALL will achieve enlightenment in some way, shape, or form. Right after the lid slams shut. Now just what makes you think there is life after death? If you don't beleive the prophecies that are in the Bible that have come to pass? Have you examined these prophecies or do you just diss them on some one elses word?

[Dave@PSE&G]

Now just what makes you think there is life after death? If you don't beleive the prophecies that are in the Bible that have come to pass? Have you examined these prophecies or do you just diss them on some one elses word?
I don't know if there is life after death or not. Neither do you. You believe that there is, but you don't know. What I'm saying is that when we die, all questions are answered. If you are right and there is life after death, then I guess I'm screwed. If you're wrong and there's nothing after we die, then we're all screwed together.
I have to say, CP, that I am a bit confused by your post. You poo-poo science, then tell me about Dr. Leaky and the sulfur beds, and describe ancient Egypt as an episode of the Flintstones. I guess God turned a Velociraptor into an alligator, huh? It couldn't have evolved, could it?What gives? Well, I guess it doesn't matter. If you are comfortable with your beliefs, that is all that matters. Unfortunately, when you counter the evoulution arguement like you did in your response to my post, you look like the Anti- Batts. He is completely at odds with the religious right, and you are tucked so far right that you might even be on your way around the other side. It doesn't matter though because radicalism is all the same, regardless of the content. As hard as it is for you to take Steve's rants serious, some of us find your rants to be just as difficult. In all fairness, you are much less abrasive then Battman, so debate with you is much more of a pleasant experience.
As for the prophecies of the bible; I have read the Bible as a piece of literature. I cannot honestly say that I am truly convinced by these writings. Sure, you can pick out a bunch and say they have come to pass. Then again, there are some that have not and will not come to fruition. The laws of probability state that if you throw 50 coins in the air at the same time, some will land heads up. As I stated before, I did not have religious teaching as a kid (for a time, I was being raised Baptist, but family issues put an end to it), so it is hard for me to accept the terms of the Bible blindly. I am not necessarily an athiest, nor do I believe everything I read. I guess you could say that I don't know what the hell is going on, but I am ok with that.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I enter this discussion with some reluctance, I have a question I'd like to ask. First part is for CP, CP advocates the position of creationism. CP, is there a way for a creationist to reconcile evolution?

Now, for those who feel that the human race has or may have evolved, is there a way to reconcile evolution with creationism?

The underlying question here is when we are taught creationism, do we take the first book of the Bible literally?

[LostArt]

The underlying question here is when we are taught creationism, do we take the first book of the Bible literally?

You mean like in parables? Sorta how Jesus used the New Testiment?

[Orgnizdlbr]

You mean like in parables? Sorta how Jesus used the New Testiment?

Well, kinda, i think you see the direction I'm going......

[LostArt]

Well, kinda, i think you see the direction I'm going......

Oh yeah. I see the direction. But, are we watching for the signs too?

[CenterPointEX]

I enter this discussion with some reluctance, I have a question I'd like to ask. First part is for CP, CP advocates the position of creationism. CP, is there a way for a creationist to reconcile evolution?
Now, for those who feel that the human race has or may have evolved, is there a way to reconcile evolution with creationism?
The underlying question here is when we are taught creationism, do we take the first book of the Bible literally? OGB, you enter this discussion with an assumption or rather you enter stating a falsity... Your opening salvo asks me to reconcile evolution with what I believe. This question makes the statement that the theory of Evolution is not a theory but rather a fact. Fact is Evolution can not be reconciled with Evolution... There is No... count em zero evidences that support the theory that any animal has evolved into any other... There is zero fossil evidence to this effect.... You will no matter how effeciently comb the scientific journels be able to come up with any evidence supporting Evolution... So you might as well asked, "How do I reconcile Creationism with Unicorns?" It would be the same question.

[Dave@PSE&G]

OGB, you enter this discussion with an assumption or rather you enter stating a falsity... Your opening salvo asks me to reconcile evolution with what I believe. This question makes the statement that the theory of Evolution is not a theory but rather a fact. Fact is Evolution can not be reconciled with Evolution... There is No... count em zero evidences that support the theory that any animal has evolved into any other... There is zero fossil evidence to this effect.... You will no matter how effeciently comb the scientific journels be able to come up with any evidence supporting Evolution... So you might as well asked, "How do I reconcile Creationism with Unicorns?" It would be the same question.

On the other hand, there are no evidences that 1 supreme being put us all together in this fishbowl. All you have is a book and belief. I guess jews, buddhists, muslims, etc. don't count in your book, right? If you're right, EVERYONE else is wrong. Is there absolutly no chance that, in this enormous solar system of ours, in an even larger universe, there may be intellegent life out there? C'mon, man. I have the same arguement with my wife. You can believe the stories in the bible, but not that there is a possibility that perhaps we're not alone in the universe. Personally, I feel that is a narrowminded position. But again, if you're comfortable with the "It's my story and I'm sticking with it" approach, so be it. I've never seen an alien, dinosaur, neanderthal man, or an enormous ark. Because of this, I can't decide what actually happened. All I do know for sure is that we are here for a short time, and we should make the most of it.

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB, you enter this discussion with an assumption or rather you enter stating a falsity... Your opening salvo asks me to reconcile evolution with what I believe. This question makes the statement that the theory of Evolution is not a theory but rather a fact. Fact is Evolution can not be reconciled with Evolution... There is No... count em zero evidences that support the theory that any animal has evolved into any other... There is zero fossil evidence to this effect.... You will no matter how effeciently comb the scientific journels be able to come up with any evidence supporting Evolution... So you might as well asked, "How do I reconcile Creationism with Unicorns?" It would be the same question.

So, you interpret the Bible literally, but I knew that. So in your mind there is no chance that the Omnipotent God, when he created man, did so in a manner consistant with evolution.

Any other opinions?

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB, you enter this discussion with an assumption or rather you enter stating a falsity... Your opening salvo asks me to reconcile evolution with what I believe. This question makes the statement that the theory of Evolution is not a theory but rather a fact. Fact is Evolution can not be reconciled with Evolution... There is No... count em zero evidences that support the theory that any animal has evolved into any other... There is zero fossil evidence to this effect.... You will no matter how effeciently comb the scientific journels be able to come up with any evidence supporting Evolution... So you might as well asked, "How do I reconcile Creationism with Unicorns?" It would be the same question.

Some Christians seem to be able to reconcile evolution with the Creator CP.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/8712_message_from_the_pope_1996_1_3_2001.asp

[CenterPointEX]

OGB, did you read the material in the link you posted? I read it thru several times and I really don't see it reconciling Evolution. However it did set forth some false information. The following is an excerpt.

"Today, almost half a century after the publication of the Encyclical, fresh knowledge has led to the recognition that evolution is more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favour of this theory."

It makes the same false statement as you set forth in your opening salvo. That Evolution is proven Science... more than a theory. A lot of the evidence still used in teaching Evolution was fabricated out of whole cloth. The examples I gave at the beginning of this thread are not all the examples. No honest Chemist, molecular biologist, archeologist, palentologist, etc. believes that there is any evidence supporting Evolution at this time. There was a time when this was not the case. But Science has advanced and all the evidence previously submitted to support Evolution has become either non-effectual or proven to be an outright fabrication in nature.

So, I ask again... can anybody point me to any Science, not science fiction that supports Evolution. If Evolution is more than a theory, then there must be something that shines out as a hint of it's truth.

OGB, again I reiterate, that you have asked me if Unicorns can be reconciled with the Bible. That question is as silly as can evolution be reconciled with the Bible. Any attempt to answer it would be an exercise in vanity.

The article in the link also stated that, "truth can not contradict truth" What I got from the article was that if indeed, Evolution should evolve from the realm of fairy tale, then we must reconcile it with the Bible, if indeed they are both true. But until a shred of evidence is set forth to lift up the theory of Evolution, we have no need to doubt the Genisis account. In support of Genisis, Jesus quoted it as truth, not parable. But then you would have to beleive the New testament was legit to use that as supporting evidence. The Gospels do indeed stand up to inquisition concerning thier legitamacy, but that is another subject over which I have traversed exhaustivly.

But, this thread is about Evolution as a religion, not about Creationism. I ask again, Why has the Scientific community persistantly faked evidence to try and make Evolution Walk on all fours? Why do Scientists and Scholars who know that a piece of evidence is fake continue to us it as proof for their theory.

Christianity on the other hand has no such evidence against it. Like I said, there are around 1,800 Biblical prophecys that have come to pass... Any one who has ever examined these has come to this conclusion. There are zero... count em zero prophecys in the Bible that shown to be hands down false prophecies. The rebirth of Israel and the return of the Jewish people not withstanding. By contrast, all the other religions you mention are chock full of failed prophecies.

[CenterPointEX]

On the other hand, there are no evidences that 1 supreme being put us all together in this fishbowl. All you have is a book and belief. I guess jews, buddhists, muslims, etc. don't count in your book, right? . Dave, 1800 impossible prophecies that have come to pass are evidence that can not be intelligently denied. Take for instance the prophecy that Jesus would be crucified, hundreds of years before the idea of killing by crucificion was even invented and implimented by the Romans. There in Isiah is a blow by blow account of Christ agony on the cross and ultimately his death there...

The evidence supporting the truth of the Bible is overwhelming. History, Archeology, etc. There is not one shred of evidence supporting a postion that anything in ther is not true. No, I repeat, count em... no other Religion can make that claim... Yes the Jews can... and will because the Jews point to the prophecies in the old testament that have come to passl... So, why do men have faith in a theory that has no supporting evidence and dis one that has boat loads...

Not a single person here has commented on the fact that all the ape dudes held up to be transitional man have been proven to be not so, or outright lies... Could you comment on that OGB... Yes, I believe Genisis to be a literal account of creation... Scientists keep increasing the time it took for Evolution to occur because new science requires it... We can judge the age of the earth by many indicators that are easy. One of the things they have studied is space dust. We know how much falls on the earth per annum... So where is the tons and tons of the stuff that should be here... Worse yet, they expected about thirty for fourth feet of the stuff when the landed on the moon... Thats why the landing spoons on the feet of the lunar module were there... They were afraid it would sink out of sight... How big was the pile of dust on the moon after six million years?... a few inches... consistant with a moon less than ten thousand years old... Think gentlemen... consider the evidence... Somebody show me the science... direct me to the dating process that makes the earth six million years old... Can any one find it for me?

[Dave@PSE&G]

Dave, 1800 impossible prophecies that have come to pass are evidence that can not be intelligently denied. Take for instance the prophecy that Jesus would be crucified, hundreds of years before the idea of killing by crucificion was even invented and implimented by the Romans. There in Isiah is a blow by blow account of Christ agony on the cross and ultimately his death there...

I am pretty sure that I read, according to most scholars, that the bible was written some 300 years after the death of Christ. If that is the case, how hard is it to make a prediction after it happens?
Look CP, I obviously cannot get you to see my point of view. I am not saying you are wrong, and I'm not saying I'm right. What I'm saying is that NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE. Unless God himself came down and talked to you personally, how can you be so sure? Go with what works for you, man. Just be happy. That's the most important thing, right?

Hey, Lost Art: I figured out how to work the quotes. Thanks for the help. -- Dave

[CenterPointEX]

I am pretty sure that I read, according to most scholars, that the bible was written some 300 years after the death of Christ. If that is the case, how hard is it to make a prediction after it happens?
It is not true that the Bible was written three hundred years after Christ... It is true that Dan Brown made this false statement in his recent book the "Davinci Code".
http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?t=1534&highlight=Davinci+Code
That is why this book is so dangereous. Have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls or the silver scroll Dave? Google the "Dead Sea Scrolls" Do you have any idea when they are dated... No Scholars make any such statement about the Bible. Jesus made referance to the Old Testament and quoted it as truth. Dave, the Jews were around way before Jesus was born of Mary. Historians will attest to this. The cities in the Bible once thought to be myths have been uncovered and discovered in the last thirty years.
Dave, you are desperate to find an alternative truth... You have faith that there is no God. You can beleive that the book of Isiah was written three hundred years after Jesus death only by faith... Because in order to beleive that you would have to disbeleive all the historians... Jewish, secular, or otherwise... You can beleive world war two did not happen only by faith... Insanity, but a person could beleive that... You are willing to beleive almost anthing to deny God. This is a product of pride... You are willing to beleive that we decended from apes by faith... Faith in men who in order to make this theory plausable created fake skeletons to dupe the willing... In order to kill God...

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB, did you read the material in the link you posted? I read it thru several times and I really don't see it reconciling Evolution. However it did set forth some false information. The following is an excerpt.

"Today, almost half a century after the publication of the Encyclical, fresh knowledge has led to the recognition that evolution is more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favour of this theory."

It makes the same false statement as you set forth in your opening salvo. That Evolution is proven Science... more than a theory. A lot of the evidence still used in teaching Evolution was fabricated out of whole cloth. The examples I gave at the beginning of this thread are not all the examples. No honest Chemist, molecular biologist, archeologist, palentologist, etc. believes that there is any evidence supporting Evolution at this time. There was a time when this was not the case. But Science has advanced and all the evidence previously submitted to support Evolution has become either non-effectual or proven to be an outright fabrication in nature.

So, I ask again... can anybody point me to any Science, not science fiction that supports Evolution. If Evolution is more than a theory, then there must be something that shines out as a hint of it's truth.

OGB, again I reiterate, that you have asked me if Unicorns can be reconciled with the Bible. That question is as silly as can evolution be reconciled with the Bible. Any attempt to answer it would be an exercise in vanity.

The article in the link also stated that, "truth can not contradict truth" What I got from the article was that if indeed, Evolution should evolve from the realm of fairy tale, then we must reconcile it with the Bible, if indeed they are both true. But until a shred of evidence is set forth to lift up the theory of Evolution, we have no need to doubt the Genisis account. In support of Genisis, Jesus quoted it as truth, not parable. But then you would have to beleive the New testament was legit to use that as supporting evidence. The Gospels do indeed stand up to inquisition concerning thier legitamacy, but that is another subject over which I have traversed exhaustivly.

But, this thread is about Evolution as a religion, not about Creationism. I ask again, Why has the Scientific community persistantly faked evidence to try and make Evolution Walk on all fours? Why do Scientists and Scholars who know that a piece of evidence is fake continue to us it as proof for their theory.

Christianity on the other hand has no such evidence against it. Like I said, there are around 1,800 Biblical prophecys that have come to pass... Any one who has ever examined these has come to this conclusion. There are zero... count em zero prophecys in the Bible that shown to be hands down false prophecies. The rebirth of Israel and the return of the Jewish people not withstanding. By contrast, all the other religions you mention are chock full of failed prophecies.

6. With man, then, we find ourselves in the presence of an ontological difference, an ontological leap, one could say. However, does not the posing of such ontological discontinuity run counter to that physical continuity which seems to be the main thread of research into evolution in the field of physics and chemistry? Consideration of the method used in the various branches of knowledge makes it possible to reconcile two points of view which would seem irreconcilable. The sciences of observation describe and measure the multiple manifestations of life with increasing precision and correlate them with the time line. The moment of transition into the spiritual cannot be the object of this kind of observation, which nevertheless can discover at the experimental level a series of very valuable signs indicating what is specific to the human being. But the experience of metaphysical knowledge, of self-awareness and self-reflection, of moral conscience, freedom, or again, of aesthetic and religious experience, falls within the competence of philosophical analysis and reflection while theology brings out its ultimate meaning according to the Creator's plans.

I hate to cut and paste CP, but I did never the less. If you would, seeing how you assert that I did not read what I linked, whhat does the underlined sentence mean??

[CenterPointEX]

" Consideration of the method used in the various branches of knowledge makes it possible to reconcile two points of view which would seem irreconcilable. The sciences of observation describe and measure the multiple manifestations of life with increasing precision and correlate them with the time line."

I hate to cut and paste CP, but I did never the less. If you would, seeing how you assert that I did not read what I linked, whhat does the underlined sentence mean?? I welcome the cut...

I did not mean to assert that you did not read it, I knew that you had... you unlike Swamp check your source most of the time. I just wondered if indeed you read it for what it was worth or if you read it trying to impart reconcilation with a point of view.

All of the Popes are politicions... They don't reach Popehood by any other asset... As politicions they are well versed in speaking eloquently with plausable metaphors shrouded in ambiguity. Since the flat earth fiasco, the Popes are afraid to stand up to Science.
....... The statement "consideration of the Method" is one of the problems with the statement. The method; as in the outright fabrication of "Lucy" , "Peking Man", "Nebraska man" etc., was and is the method. You still have not acknowledeged this problem. The cruxt of the religion of Evolutionism is sophisticated lies shrouded in Scientific rhetoric. Garbage in equals garbage out. The precision with which they measured the manifestations of ape men would not fool an eighth grader. Modern Science knows, understands, and keeps this secret... Do not beleive me... check out "Lucy" for yourself... Check and see what bones they found when and where that they compiled into Lucy... Check out the evidence held up in the Scopes Monkey Trial... A tooth of an extinct pig out of which an ape man and his society were derived...

So basicly the Pope might well as have said,
" ...... Using fabrications and lies, it is possible to reconcile two opposing points of view." For instance, If I said, "Red and Green are the same color." Then I could reconcile the two opposing views that envy is "Red" and that envy is "Green" Off the record, I hold the positon that envy is both both red and green...but thats another subject.

.....The Pope said, " Reconcilation is possible..." He did not say it was plausable, probable, or was in fact, fact. He did not define the points of view. He used new speak (1984) to cover his bases... He made a statement saying nothing.

"Does not the ontological discontinuity run counter to the physical continuity?" Did the Pope answer this question he posed?
The question defining the terms reads, "Does not the idea of Gods Genisis disagree with with the Genisis set forth by Science? The answer to that posed question is the same one I have been asking you OGB, I ask," Considering the evidence I have shown you, Does the idea of Gods Genesis disagree with that of Science?" Considering the outright lies and fakes set forth by the proponents of the religion of Evolutionism, is it even necessary to ask this question?

If you can, dissect what the Pope said in that sentence and explain it to me. I have given my take.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I welcome the cut...

I did not mean to assert that you did not read it, I knew that you had... you unlike Swamp check your source most of the time. I just wondered if indeed you read it for what it was worth or if you read it trying to impart reconcilation with a point of view.

All of the Popes are politicions... They don't reach Popehood by any other asset... As politicions they are well versed in speaking eloquently with plausable metaphors shrouded in ambiguity. Since the flat earth fiasco, the Popes are afraid to stand up to Science.
....... The statement "consideration of the Method" is one of the problems with the statement. The method; as in the outright fabrication of "Lucy" , "Peking Man", "Nebraska man" etc., was and is the method. You still have not acknowledeged this problem. The cruxt of the religion of Evolutionism is sophisticated lies shrouded in Scientific rhetoric. Garbage in equals garbage out. The precision with which they measured the manifestations of ape men would not fool an eighth grader. Modern Science knows, understands, and keeps this secret... Do not beleive me... check out "Lucy" for yourself... Check and see what bones they found when and where that they compiled into Lucy... Check out the evidence held up in the Scopes Monkey Trial... A tooth of an extinct pig out of which an ape man and his society were derived...

So basicly the Pope might well as have said,
" ...... Using fabrications and lies, it is possible to reconcile two opposing points of view." For instance, If I said, "Red and Green are the same color." Then I could reconcile the two opposing views that envy is "Red" and that envy is "Green" Off the record, I hold the positon that envy is both both red and green...but thats another subject.

.....The Pope said, " Reconcilation is possible..." He did not say it was plausable, probable, or was in fact, fact. He did not define the points of view. He used new speak (1984) to cover his bases... He made a statement saying nothing.

"Does not the ontological discontinuity run counter to the physical continuity?" Did the Pope answer this question he posed?
The question defining the terms reads, "Does not the idea of Gods Genisis disagree with with the Genisis set forth by Science? The answer to that posed question is the same one I have been asking you OGB, I ask," Considering the evidence I have shown you, Does the idea of Gods Genesis disagree with that of Science?" Considering the outright lies and fakes set forth by the proponents of the religion of Evolutionism, is it even necessary to ask this question?

If you can, dissect what the Pope said in that sentence and explain it to me. I have given my take.

Answer= read again the cut and paste, then go back and read my original post, that is your answer.

Obviously, you take Genesis literally, thats fine, but the fact is, one only needs to have faith in God to understand that anything is possible. You, nor does anyone on this earth know if Genesis is written in a literal form. That God created the world and all its glory in 6 days and rested on the 7th may mean to you that it was actually 7 days as we know it. Obviosly the story of Genesis was penned way before the Julian calendar came along, so the literal interpretation of Genesis is wide open. The fact is, you, nor I, nor anyone on God's green earth have a clue how long 7 days was to God. It may have been 7 days as we know it, but it also may have been 7 Billion years for all we know, so if I can reconcile creation and evlolution it is my reconciliation, not yours...I know, I know, even though I believe, I dont believe exactly as you, so I guess I am damned...

Karol Wojtyla, John Paul II after his ascendency to papacy, was IMHO the best choice at a time when the world needed a Religious leader with Balls. Remember where we were at the time CP? And I do mean a religious leader with balls. You and I have had some words back and forth about the Catholic Church, that is in the past. But I must ask, what other leader of Christianity has had the impact of Wojtyla in the last century??

[LostArt]

Lord help me for agreeing with a Catholic!!! (grins wide at Georgie) But, I also, Southern Baptist born, doesn't believe that man "knows" all there is to know about God's Way or His Word. I personally don't think we are meant to understand all of what God is saying in the Bible. I'm not saying I am right or wrong, I'm only saying that maybe there is more between the lines.

I'm like Georgie, and maybe most here, I think there is more. But, it's not shown to us because we aren't to know what is in the "details" but more into what is in the message.

We can all speculate. We can even read and see more in the scriptures. But, from hearing so many different kinds of messages intrepreted in one scripture, I've learned to have an understanding of the simple words. Instead of reading more than what is meant for us to understand, I try and see it for what it is....something that even a small child will understand.

[CenterPointEX]

Lord help me for agreeing with a Catholic!!!... But, from hearing so many different kinds of messages intrepreted in one scripture, I've learned to have an understanding of the simple words. Instead of reading more than what is meant for us to understand, I try and see it for what it is....something that even a small child will understand.
That is the beauty of the Word... The message is so simple that even a child could understand it, yet so complex that a nuclear physicist can not apprehend it... In the same way that a Lily is understood by a child and yet probed by a molecular biologist... Both the child and the scientist understand it's beauty. The child does not need to understand its complexity to comprehend its beauty... The scientist thru his study gets a deeper understanding of it... Gracie, the words of the Bible as you study them are infinate in wisdom. Any student of the Bible understands this...

Where folks get in trouble is when they are taught or come to the conclusion that the Bible can only be truly understood by using a filter of some sort... meaning the Bible does not say what it means, but rather what we inturpret it to mean by using a filter such as the Watchtower for the Jehovahs... The book of Mormon for the Mormons... Tradition and the infalible word of the Popes for the Catholics.

My friend the Bible says what it means and means what is says... I have yet to see it dispelled... and just as in show me some evidence that supports evolution (there ain't none it is beleived by faith) Show me an interpretation that your deem problematic... Show me one.

Evolution is a religion... no ifs ands or buts about it.... There is untold infinately more evidence to support the Bible as truth than there is to support Evolution as truth.

OGB, you have used this topic as a spring board to suggest that the Genisis story is just that... a story. But you have yet to comment as to why you think our text books in our schools still use outright fakes to teach the religion of Evolution... Fabrications that can be verified and are known by all those in the field of Evolution.

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB, you have used this topic as a spring board to suggest that the Genisis story is just that... a story.


No, apparently, your literal interpretation of my question and statement cannot be reconciled with the intent of the writer.

You see, CP, you cannot answer the question I pose in my statement. Lets dissect the statement into smaller parts so you can answer one at a time.

How long was the first day spoken of in Genesis in relationship to what a day is today, was it 24 hours long, or 25, or 23 or 100 years or 1000 years or a billion years, which was it?

[LostArt]

Aaaah...........there ya go instigatin' again Swamp. :D

Did anyone watch the Supervolcano program last night? It was interesting. You all might of heard about the supervolcano over in yellowstone millions of years ago (I can't remember what dates---but a LONG time!). Anyway, scientists say it covered half of the west part of America at the time and we are past due for it to blow again. I think the last time was 74,000 yrs ago a supervolcano hit.

The program went on to say that while testing the DNA of several Americans (forget the number) that they know that at one time there were millions of people on earth and then something happened and we thinned out drastically. They say maybe to only 1,000 people left on earth. And now we are now back to millions and millions of people again. They seemed to think it was another supervolcano that made that other drastic decline in the world population.

The boss always asks me questions pertaining to the bible sometimes (like I'm an expert or something--kills me) and says, "Well, what do you say to that dear?" I personally don't know what to think of it, because somewhere in the timeline before man, there was just the earth. Now, I feel like there was a lot of stuff going on before man ever got here. And there seems to always be scientific evidence to prove all these many things in a billion or million years to me! Them throwin' out millions...much less billions, confuse me! LOL!

They called the increase in population to the decrease and back again as the "bottle effect". Picture a large number (like a bowl) of population that then goes into like a long tube (small like an inch--representing the decline in population for many years) and balloons out into the large population again...considering this to be the large population now as we know it.

For some reason, and blame it on my upbringing/brainwashing or just me making it fit in God's Work, but I want to say that the decline in population (that scientists speak of here) on large amounts of water that once covered the earth. :D And they want to blame it on another supervolcano over across the world! Heh.

So, this brings me to the point to what Georgie is asking. What God would call a day, week, month, and a year, compared to what we know it as now; broken down to hours, minutes and even seconds. But, here we go again...makin' hills into mountains and mountains into supervolcanos!

Ever thought of that phrase, "....in God's own time." I don't know how many times I've heard that over the years. Times were way different millions and billions of years ago. God might of had it all broken down, and then again, He might not of worried about it and picked at it like we do now. But, time sure does matter to us, doesn't it? We don't have enough of it, sometimes it flies, it stands still, there's no better than the present, and only IT will tell!

It is interesting to read or see documentaries on things like the makings of the earth and I too also wonder. Not that God didn't make it, not that I even disput what scientists say, but the fact that it makes you sit back and think...ponder. And Georgie sure does ponder, don't he???? :D

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB, I am of the opinion that is was seven twenty four hour days. Why not? God could do it in seven twentyfour hour days could He not? Any ways God made the plants a day before he made the sun... so if they were day ages like billions of years that means plants existed for ages with out the sun?... You see doing the day age thing opens up a bigger can of worms that would lead to endless rat trails...

...L.A. there is no Scientific evidence for a Million or Billion year old earth... In fact most of the reliable indicators suggest an Earth less than ten thousand years old... Carbon Dating has to many problems to be reliable... They have dated live Seals at thirteen hundred years old... It seems water in the mix throws Carbon dating in to haywire mode... So a world wide flood would nuke its reliability...
Like Swamp says... we can only believe that the Earth is amillion or billion years old by faith.

OGB, Are you ignoring my question of the outright fakes that the Evolutionists are still using as proof evidence that man evolved from Apes and that Apes evolved from cosmic goo struck by lighting?

You have no way of knowing what the time span consisted of.......

[CenterPointEX]

OGB, you are right in saying I have no way of knowing what the time span consisted of, other than Gods Word. It says days... I am gonna go with that. One reliable dating method would be cosmic dust... Science has measured the amount of dust falling to the earth from outer space... On the earth it becomes part of the swirl and is intigrated into earth... But... on the moon... there is no swirl... the calculations told the Scientists that there should be fifty feet of it on the moon... thus the big pie plates on the Lunar Landers feet... They were ready for the fifty feet of cosmic dust that should be there... How deep was it?... Five inches... Big sigh of relief from Nasa... Big Gasp from the old Earth Camp....

OGB, will you at least concur that the Evolutionists use faked evidence in our nations text books as proof evidence that man evolved from Apes? You have me out on a limb here looking a little chimpish.... Pun Intended...

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB, you are right in saying I have no way of knowing what the time span consisted of, other than Gods Word. It says days... I am gonna go with that. One reliable dating method would be cosmic dust... Science has measured the amount of dust falling to the earth from outer space... On the earth it becomes part of the swirl and is intigrated into earth... But... on the moon... there is no swirl... the calculations told the Scientists that there should be fifty feet of it on the moon... thus the big pie plates on the Lunar Landers feet... They were ready for the fifty feet of cosmic dust that should be there... How deep was it?... Five inches... Big sigh of relief from Nasa... Big Gasp from the old Earth Camp....

OGB, will you at least concur that the Evolutionists use faked evidence in our nations text books as proof evidence that man evolved from Apes? You have me out on a limb here looking a little chimpish.... Pun Intended...

CP, I dissenthttp://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[CenterPointEX]

CP, I dissenthttp://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon6.gifNow thats not fair?... The minute you are faced with undeniable truth you just turn your back and say..."What Pink Elephant?"


Will you at Least concur CP, that EVERY Religion on earth has Different beliefs... Why should I concur that Your belief is correct? I just can't buy your "evidence", when every other religion has their "evidence" too. . Swamp, I concur that every religion has different beliefs... So different that they can not be reconciled with each other... It can not be true that 1+ 1= 2 and at the same time that 1 + 1 = 4... One can believe 1+1=4 all day long but that don't make it so. It can not be that Hinduism and Christianity are at the same time true. No other religion has proofs swamp, The proofs of the Bible are undeniable... Fulfilled prophecys 1800,... other religions 0 count em zero. Christianity, Leader died and came back to life appearing to over 500 wittnesses... Other Religious leaders who came back from the dead... 0 count em zero... Christianities support in historical and archeological venues... without tarnish... other religions with verifiable history and archeological support... 0 count em zero.

[CenterPointEX]

I will consider that which you call truth Swamp... Show me the evidence...Evidence Swamp, It convicts... Its what gives creedence to scientific theorys etc... If you would only examine it, it would tell something... are you saying that the wittnesses who saw the risen Christ were not credible? They are men who lost even their lives because they continued to tell what they had seen.

You make bold sweeping statements about what you believe Swamp but you present no evidence to support it...

[Dave@PSE&G]

Hey CP, I was just wondering what your take was on the "Jesus Tomb" recently found in Jerusalem. Turns out He may have not have left the cave and might have been a family man. Any thoughts?
p.s.- I am not attempting to be disrespectful. I know it looks that way, but I am actually interested in your thoughts about this.

[CenterPointEX]

Did they find the tomb of Jesus Dave?... In the day everybody knew where it was... Everybody was looking to produce the body to dispell the fact the he had risen... Swamp, Christians were not the only people to write about Jesus... His enemies wrote about him, Historians wrote about him... The Jews who were his arch enemies number one wrote abou him... Think about this for a minute Swamp, how many folks could in their right mind, see a fella killed three days later see him walking around, and then not be a believer? nobody who saw him alive after he was dead was not a believer... Thomas not withstanding...


Dave... That Jesus was a married man is bunk... the oppositon would have sung accolades about his wife and kids had he had them... And what of his children? Since Jesus was all God and all man his children would have had to been half breeds of sort... All were even in his day looking to debunk him... They could bring no charge against him other than blasphemy... he claimed to be God...
Swamp, I concur that every religion has different beliefs... So different that they can not be reconciled with each other... It can not be true that 1+ 1= 2 and at the same time that 1 + 1 = 4... One can believe 1+1=4 all day long but that don't make it so. It can not be that Hinduism and Christianity are at the same time true. No other religion has proofs swamp, The proofs of the Bible are undeniable... Fulfilled prophecys 1800,... other religions 0 count em zero. Christianity, Leader died and came back to life appearing to over 500 wittnesses... Other Religious leaders who came back from the dead... 0 count em zero... Christianities support in historical and archeological venues... without tarnish... other religions with verifiable history and archeological support... 0 count em zero.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Did they find the tomb of Jesus Dave?... In the day everybody knew where it was... Everybody was looking to produce the body to dispell the fact the he had risen...
I don't know, I was distracted and missed the last half of that show. I hope to get a chance to watch it again. From the 1st hour, I would say that the producers of the show believe that they did find His family tomb.


Swamp, Christians were not the only people to write about Jesus... His enemies wrote about him, Historians wrote about him... The Jews who were his arch enemies number one wrote abou him... Think about this for a minute Swamp, how many folks could in their right mind, see a fella killed three days later see him walking around, and then not be a believer? nobody who saw him alive after he was dead was not a believer... Thomas not withstanding...
No one who saw him alive after he was dead was not a believer, or could it be that all the people who saw him alive after he was dead were believers?


Dave... That Jesus was a married man is bunk... the oppositon would have sung accolades about his wife and kids had he had them...
Considering how much trouble Jesus was in, could he have kept his family a secret to keep them safe. If his enemies knew he had family, do you think that they might have used threats against his family to silence him. From what I have read, it seams that the biggest problem that the Jews had with Jesus was that he was claiming to be the son of God, thus undermining their own religious teachings. Judging by how sweet a crucifixtion is, I don't think torturing a man's family to silence him was out of the question in those times.


Swamp, I concur that every religion has different beliefs... So different that they can not be reconciled with each other... It can not be true that 1+ 1= 2 and at the same time that 1 + 1 = 4... One can believe 1+1=4 all day long but that don't make it so. It can not be that Hinduism and Christianity are at the same time true. No other religion has proofs swamp, The proofs of the Bible are undeniable... Fulfilled prophecys 1800,... other religions 0 count em zero. Christianity, Leader died and came back to life appearing to over 500 wittnesses... Other Religious leaders who came back from the dead... 0 count em zero... Christianities support in historical and archeological venues... without tarnish... other religions with verifiable history and archeological support... 0 count em zero.

So that's it, huh? Christianity wins? I don't know, man. I'm sure the Muslims, Jews, Buddists, etc. of the world would have something to say about that. One thing keeps nagging at me about this claim you make here. You say that 1800 phrophecies have come true. Ok, maybe they have. Nostradamus make quite a few "phrophecies"of his own. Plenty of them have come true. Some with SCARY detail. Yet some religious leaders (I don't remember names, just recall reading something about this) debunk him, stating that he was guessing, he made vague predictions that have sort of come true, or just flat out claim he was talking about something else. So how is it that the only phrophecies that are credible are those of Jesus? That right there is what makes me crazy about organized religion. The blind acceptance of their teachings and the fervent dismissal of all else. Whatever became of tolerance and acceptance, which if I'm not mistaken is a staple of Christ's teachings? Isn't it possible that you might be wrong, and someone else is right? Or is that COMPLETELY impossible?

[Orgnizdlbr]

http://townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=the_lost_tomb_of_jesus__thing s_you%e2%80%99d_have_to_believe_to_believe_james_c ameron&ns=FrankPastore&dt=03/04/2007&page=full&comments=true

Just something to chew on, apparently this columnist doesnt agree with Cameron or the discovery channel.

[CenterPointEX]

Considering how much trouble Jesus was in, could he have kept his family a secret to keep them safe. No way... Jesus walked the streets of small town in a small country... You ever considered the size of the whole of Israel? Nothing happened in secret with any public figure... Small town America is the same way... everybody knows every elses bussiness... When Jesus started talking he was in no trouble at all... When the people started to believe in him is when the trouble started... Prior to that the Religous Zealots were amazed at his understanding an wisdom..
So that's it, huh? Christianity wins? I don't know, man. I'm sure the Muslims, Jews, Buddists, etc. of the world would have something to say about that. The Muslims & Buddists have no fufilled prophecies to point to. The leaders of these sects died and were never heard from again...
One thing keeps nagging at me about this claim you make here. You say that 1800 phrophecies have come true. Ok, maybe they have. Nostradamus make quite a few "phrophecies"of his own. Plenty of them have come true. Some with SCARY detail.

OK Sir, I implore you enlighten us... Give us an example of the wisdom and forsight of Nostrildudeamess... Give us if you will a prophecy, the actual passage of Nostradamus's words spelled out in scary detail, and the event described by those words that has that has come to pass... Please Sir... we are waiting with baited breath... __________________

[CenterPointEX]

Swamp, I can show you the prophecies set forth in the Bible and the history that shows and confirms when these prophecies came to pass... No other religious writing can make that claim Swamp... Show me one if you will... Dave won't be able to produce any Nostradomic scarily detailed prophecy... Just like I have read your boy Huxley, also I have read Nostradamus...

also Swamp... though I have not received any letters in my mailbox, I have received Word from Him... He speaks to us in is Word... I thru a near death experience have heard from Him and seen a glimpse of his Glory... I would think myself crazy had I not subsequently spoken with others about similar experiences... For many years after this experience I didn't tell a soul... While out in Cal I met two folks... One had died and experience Heaven and the other had died and experienced Hell... One talked of an overwhelming presence of love, joy, light... etc. to which words could do no justace in describing... The other of a Darkness, fear, terror, and hoplessness to which words could do no justace in describing... I told that fella for some reason he had tasted Hell and gotten another chance... I asked him if this experiece had changed his mind about God... I saw death in his eyes and terror in his soul as he rose up from his chair all the while looking straight thru me... He turned and walked away... without saying a word... I never saw that fella again... The other fella who had tasted a glimpse of Heaven was out there telling folks about the hope that was in him, where ever he found an audience... Pick up a copy of a book called "Ninty Minutes in Heaven" It was written by a fella who died in a car crash... When I picked up the book in a Barnes an Noble, I was trasdfixed because of a short passage that I flipped to and scannned. I did not even leave the book store until I had read the whole thing... In the end the fella said he wernt all the time shure he believed himself... He don't even expect any one else would believe him...

I understand completely... What I experiecned is indescribable... I long to return to the place I experienced at the bottem of the Comal River... I longed to stay there and I voiced that sentiment to God... He told me I had to go back and he told me why... God is good... no matter that he allows us to pass thru this world of sin... but rather because...

[CenterPointEX]

Sometimes I wonder if ya ain't really listening Swamp... in spite of yerself....:)

[CenterPointEX]

Swamp, I told you a million times... If you really want to know the Truth, all you have to do is get down on your knees and ask God. He will reveal Himself to you Swamp, That you don't have time is bunk... You, I think, have more posts than I here.. My family thinks I spend way too much time here. Time Swamp... Just think about eternity... how much time is that? You have eternity Swamp... The question on the plate is where are you gonna spend it? You chose up to this Point to spend it out of the presence of God. Should you quit breathing Swamp... your decision will be ratified unto eternity... While Evil exists in this World Swamp, it is restrained... If you chose not God, who is love... you will spend eternity with the rest of the folks who have chose not Love... It truly is a closed mind that will not even ask God to reveal the truth. God will not force Himself on anyone Swamp... neither will any of those created in His image cease to exist... Though those who have chosen to reject Him will wish eternally that this would be a possibility. You at this Point Swamp are choosing to reject God... to reject what His one and only Son Jesus Christ has done for you... Even though I have accepted Him Swamp... I am no better than you... I am still a sinner... I still break Gods Law though it grieves me when I do so... The difference between me and you Swamp, is that I am forgiven... simply because I have accepted the forgiveness that is freely given to all men.

[Meat]

The book of "truth" starts with Adam and Eve doing it and having some boys.They go out (except the dead one) and find wives even though they are the first boys on the planet.Noah comes along later with a big boat with 2 of every animal living peacefully together on an ocean cruise.2 of every living creature would not fit on an ark, duh.Any reasonable person knows these things never happened so why would anyone believe anything beyond the 1st book in the bible.Be safe and god bless.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I don't and can't believe in a "god" that would damn his own creations for "eternity". I didn't ask to be born. But now that I am, If I don't follow "Your" way CP, "god" is gonna fry my ass for "eternity". Dude....That's a LONG time.


Quite the dichotomy, I'd say. It is difficult to rationalize the thought......

[CenterPointEX]

Swamp, He is not gonna fry you for eternity... You are gonna fry yourself for eternity. God gave you free will... You have the freedom to chose to be his friend or not. The Hell you will face Swamp, will be understanding that you have chosen to spend eternity apart from Him... Looking at what you could have had compared to what you will be living. You will burn inside... unmitigated despair... anger... shame... envy... You will long to cease to exist but unlike your earthly walk, you will not be able to snuff out your eternal walk... Swamp, should your decision to reject Him be ratified by lack of oxygen, your rejection of God will become more intense... not because of His Love but because of the things He has given to his children that you do not have... Swamp, your children did not ask to be born... I know that you love your children unconditionally... But if he decided to reject you... started wrecking your home... stealing from you, leaching from you, disrespecting you, etc... what would you do? Would you cast them out of your home?... Would you kill them... You would not kill them... You would hope that some day they would come to their senses and return to the family... If never they did, you would grieve their loss... But nothing you could do Swamp would force them to love you. You gave them life... you took care of them when they were children... and now they reject you? You would not want a grown child in you home Swamp who had nothing but contempt and disrespect for you... Though still you would love him... you would cast him away from your presence... God Loves you Swamp, and wants to have a relationship with you... But you Swamp, don't like the way He is doing things... Swamp, You have no faith in the way He is doing things... You categorically refuse to live by his household rule... Which is only one... Put your Trust in his one and only Son Jesus Christ. To have Trust in Him Swamp, is possible only if you go to Him and ask Him for it... This you refuse to do... It is my prayer Swamp, that some day you will have a desire to be delivered from your present suffering... and suffer you do Swamp... it is apparent from the anger you express towards folks here on this forum who don't see things your way... When you get ready Swamp, just ask him... it is that simple... like why would a person not ask God for such a wonderful blessing... Why would a child who was starving not go back to his father and ask for a meal... Pride Swamp... there are folks out there who would rather starve to death than ask their parents for a hand out... So I ask again Swamp, why would you refuse even to ask God to reveal Himself to you... Is you mind closed to Him? Do you not want to know Him? Swamp is your pride such that you can not defer to him? When your child was a baby swamp, he trusted in you unconditionally... He had no other choice... But when he became a man he had a choice... You Swamp have a choice...

[LostArt]

That is a good post CP. Now I want to sing Amazing Grace. No lie. You know I love those old church hyms. Why else would I have art from them?

[LostArt]

Are my parents frying for "eternity" CP? They were Roman Catholic remember.
My parents were some of the most devote Catholics I've ever met in my life.

Yet by what you proclaim as your "faith" and belief, my parents followed a flawed path of belief and are now in eternal damnation, for ALL eternity.

I'm glad LA enjoyed your post. I personally saw only your same reasoning.
"Follow jesus" or fry forever. "Your Choice". Guess my parents just caught the "wrong bus" huh. :(

Well, I'm going out on a limb here, but who can judge your parents? Who is to judge what is in a person's heart? Only the Supreme One can do that Swamp! Not me, not Christians, not Georgie, not Catholics and not CP. And I don't give a hoot what other Christians say. I've seen too many try and make His Word fit their concept.




"Angry"? Not hardly my man. Mouthy and opinionated? Most definately. :D

And that is what I love about you buddy!

[CenterPointEX]

"Eternity" ain't that black and white. Least I don't think so......... your don't sound so sure of yerself Swamp....