Belief in "Religion"

[Bigheadnc]

I beleave in god, but i'm not very religous. make sense?

[LINETRASH]

Well, swamper.

That was pretty deep, bro.

I will have to check out those readings.

I am a "lost" Baptist.

I came to believe that organised religion serves a purpose.

The fire and brimstone give people a sense of value and clearly denote good and evil.

Personally, I choose to believe that the golden rule pretty much covers me.

I feel no need to grovel at a church. I feel that if you are a good person and treat others well, you'll be OK.

'Matter of fact, I feel the lowest forms of humanity are those who prey on the faithful in the guise of a theologian. No better than a used car salesman or scam artist.

Take your pick, Muslim cleric calling for a "holy war", Baptist TV preacher begging for funds, Catholic priests who are pedophiles.

Nope, I keep it simple. be good and good things will happen to you.

If going to church make folks better, great! I just feel that faith should'nt be based on old writings of questionable origins, or men in robes.

If "GOD" sees all, knows all, then why do you need to gather at a temple to prove your faith?

Jesus was portrayed as a man like us, yet he felt no need to do to church to talk to "dad".

If you choose to follow dogma and be a lamb, that's your business. As for me, I'm still looking......

[CenterPointEX]

Well, swamper.

That was pretty deep, bro.

I will have to check out those readings.

I am a "lost" Baptist.

I came to believe that organised religion serves a purpose.

The fire and brimstone give people a sense of value and clearly denote good and evil.

Personally, I choose to believe that the golden rule pretty much covers me.

What is that golden rule? Jesus reduced the rules to one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself... The problem is none of us can do that. We all live under the law... "The Ten Commandments"... The law says the penalty for sin is death... So, since we all sin, we all are under the penalty of death... Jesus came into this world and sinned not. But yet he died. If he had sinned he could have only died for his own sin. But since there was no sin in him he was able to die for our sins. If you put your faith in him then you also died with him and subsequetly rose with him since death could not hold him. The penalty of law while applied to him could not hold him. If you live in him then you have passed thru death into life and entered into the place between the slavery of sin/Egypt and the Land of Milk and Honey/Heaven. At this point all who are believers are sitting around eating Manna and complaining...

I feel no need to grovel at a church. I feel that if you are a good person and treat others well, you'll be OK.
Churches are not country clubs for the blessed but rather Hospitals for the sick.
Matter of fact, I feel the lowest forms of humanity are those who prey on the faithful in the guise of a theologian. No better than a used car salesman or scam artist.

While there are unscroupolus doctors who are in it just for the money, there are for the most part doctors in those hospitals who truely care about the patients to the exclusion of the money. But none the less the hospitals can not operate without the good will of those who support them. Churches are no different.

Take your pick, Muslim cleric calling for a "holy war", Baptist TV preacher begging for funds, Catholic priests who are pedophiles.

Even among the twelve disciples was a bad apple in it for the money. Judas

Nope, I keep it simple. be good and good things will happen to you.

The wages of sin is death... all have sinned and all will die. Though all will die physically, not all will die spritually. Those in in Christ will live.

If going to church make folks better, great! I just feel that faith should'nt be based on old writings of questionable origins, or men in robes.

Going to church builds your faith as you watch God work in the lives of the believers around you. You see people change and get better. Begin to truely love. The writings are not questionable, any one who has examined them will attest to this.

If "GOD" sees all, knows all, then why do you need to gather at a temple to prove your faith?

God commands it.

Jesus was portrayed as a man like us, yet he felt no need to do to church to talk to "dad".

When Jesus was a kid, his parents once lost him in the city. The found him in the church preaching hope to the people. When chastised for getthing lost, he said, "Did you not know that I would be in my Fathers House doing his work." Jesus went to church. The kicked him out for preaching the thruth. At that point he changed the local of Church... He said, chruch is not a physical place but rather, "Where ever two or three gather in my name, there I will be also."

If you choose to follow dogma and be a lamb, that's your business. As for me, I'm still looking......

You will find that there is no greater joy than in serving your fellow man. Jesus came not to be served, but to serve. Becoming the sacrifical lamb to serve others is what it is all about. Your teach love not by responding to sin with anger/sin... but rather responging to sin with love....

"Father forgive them for the know not what the do." This was the prayer of Jesus for those who crucified him... It is the cruxt of the theology that is love...
For God so loved the world he gave his only Son to die for us.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Well, swamper.

That was pretty deep, bro.

I will have to check out those readings.

I am a "lost" Baptist.

I came to believe that organised religion serves a purpose.

The fire and brimstone give people a sense of value and clearly denote good and evil.

Personally, I choose to believe that the golden rule pretty much covers me.

I feel no need to grovel at a church. I feel that if you are a good person and treat others well, you'll be OK.

'Matter of fact, I feel the lowest forms of humanity are those who prey on the faithful in the guise of a theologian. No better than a used car salesman or scam artist.

Take your pick, Muslim cleric calling for a "holy war", Baptist TV preacher begging for funds, Catholic priests who are pedophiles.

Nope, I keep it simple. be good and good things will happen to you.

If going to church make folks better, great! I just feel that faith should'nt be based on old writings of questionable origins, or men in robes.

If "GOD" sees all, knows all, then why do you need to gather at a temple to prove your faith?

Jesus was portrayed as a man like us, yet he felt no need to do to church to talk to "dad".

If you choose to follow dogma and be a lamb, that's your business. As for me, I'm still looking......

I have to go with LT on this. Swamp and CP are WAY deep. My wife is Catholic, and my son is being raised as such. Me, I'm a "C & E Catholic"; Christmas and Easter. When people ask me what church I attend, I tell them "the one closest to my house".

[Highplains Drifter]

Ya know CP...
"We're all under the penalty of death." The Day we were born.
You're really COMPLETELY bout jesus, to the point of fanatical man. I mean Really.

It's one thing to "Preach", but you're just...pardon the expression...."Batshit".

Do ya ever think...
the forcefullness of your "preachin"...actually drives people away?

Think on that.

Swamprat this is you post. I have been reading this forum this winter and what I can't figure out is if CP is pushing people away, why do you always come back to his posts? As a Journeyman teaching my apprentices I have to harp at them constantly until they have learned and when they can teach another aprentice or Journeyman a certain skill they have learned it. You are like an aprentice in the spiritual world and CP is teaching!
Let me ask you this, if you do not believe in the Lord " What do you say when you have an orgasm?" My self I say God with a smile or are you conceited enough to slap you're behind and say ata boy?
SR, you see there is a spiritual revolution going on and we do not want you to miss out! It was best explained to me as Pole Top Rescue. We have tailboards every day and practice pole top rescue hoping that we will never have to do it. I hear it is an experience you will never forget, and so by not praising the Lord to lost souls when the final comes, the saved ones will never forget the lost.
SR, CP is teaching pure Christainity! I have a hard time with churchinity, that is man made doctrine and I fell that is rubbish. I do know that some humans had a bad relationship with their biological father and it is hard for them to talk to their Father. You need to get you're intelect out of it and get back to the faith you had as a young boy and self will is not helping you out either.
SR, CP might be the only version of the Bible you ever read! That is why he is living and teaching the Word, he has the Shield of God's Love and does not have fear one thing.
CP keep it up and Bless You!

[Orgnizdlbr]

Ya know CP...
"We're all under the penalty of death." The Day we were born.
You're really COMPLETELY bout jesus, to the point of fanatical man. I mean Really.

It's one thing to "Preach", but you're just...pardon the expression...."Batshit".

Do ya ever think...
the forcefullness of your "preachin"...actually drives people away?

Think on that.

Swamprat this is you post. I have been reading this forum this winter and what I can't figure out is if CP is pushing people away, why do you always come back to his posts? As a Journeyman teaching my apprentices I have to harp at them constantly until they have learned and when they can teach another aprentice or Journeyman a certain skill they have learned it. You are like an aprentice in the spiritual world and CP is teaching!
Let me ask you this, if you do not believe in the Lord " What do you say when you have an orgasm?" My self I say God with a smile or are you conceited enough to slap you're behind and say ata boy?
SR, you see there is a spiritual revolution going on and we do not want you to miss out! It was best explained to me as Pole Top Rescue. We have tailboards every day and practice pole top rescue hoping that we will never have to do it. I hear it is an experience you will never forget, and so by not praising the Lord to lost souls when the final comes, the saved ones will never forget the lost.
SR, CP is teaching pure Christainity! I have a hard time with churchinity, that is man made doctrine and I fell that is rubbish. I do know that some humans had a bad relationship with their biological father and it is hard for them to talk to their Father. You need to get you're intelect out of it and get back to the faith you had as a young boy and self will is not helping you out either.
SR, CP might be the only version of the Bible you ever read! That is why he is living and teaching the Word, he has the Shield of God's Love and does not have fear one thing.
CP keep it up and Bless You!


This oughta be good.......

[LostArt]

This oughta be good.......

**chuckles** Oh man. I was just sitting here pondering on this one Georgie and you went and made a darn face in church! Now I'm sitting here trying not to giggle during the message!

I don't know if I just had a hot flash or just imagined my daddy giving me that glare across the pews!

[LINETRASH]

I think this proves a point...

the reaction of the true believers smacks of brainwashing.

I prefer to come to my own conclusions.

The teachings of the Holy Bible provide the basis of a guilty concience.

It appears that the control factor in organised religion depends heavily on guilt.

Why should you feel guilty?

I live my life independent from your beliefs.

Yet the theologins persist that we all must admit our sins before the "lord"

Failing all else, Dogma binds you to your faith.

It also narrows your mind.

It is arrogance on your part to assume that yours is the "true faith".

To adhere to your teachings , and to thrust these views upon others is pure horseshit.

You want to prove your faith?

Shut up and quit quoting scripture.

Offer me your views without referring to your crutch.

It seems to me that you take the easy road, quoting the Bible, without an independant opinion.

Yeah, just a buncha sheep.

I suppose if Billy Graham asked you for money, you would hook him up.

That's sad man.

These assholes can kiss my ass.

And you play right into their hands......

[LostArt]

Billy Graham is probably the only envangelist I'd give money to these days. What is it that Swamp says, "Walk it like you talk it." I've yet to see Mr. Graham be in print in any bad way except for what he is. He is the only evangelist that I see today that can walk it like he talks it.

What I admire most are those that walk it like they talk it. No one is perfect in this world, but those that are sincere with the Word and live by His commandments and testimony are those that are truly blessed.

You can talk about brainwashed, dogma, and any other name for Christianity that gets thrown in there, but until you have experienced His love, you won't ever "get it". Seriously. And that is pretty much the bottomline.

[Orgnizdlbr]

No,

Actually...
If it was THAT good, my Wife would Slap me on the ass, and tell me how good it was!:D


LOL, well said Swamp....

[CenterPointEX]

Well, slap me on the arse and and call me good... I think I had and orgasm when I saw Drifters post... I feel so much like the Lone Ranger in this world sometimes Drifter... It's good to brush elbows with a fellow sojourner. SwampRat has long been a PosterChild for the world in flux... He drives home the Points I make with all the trappings of the fourth of July... I know... That there is a silent audience out there... watching us... Pondering the Faith of Swamp... and also the Faith I profess... I, as are all those followers of Christ, am called to preach the Forgivness, Love, Peace, Joy and Wonder... that are the footprints of our Lord and Savior. I am not motivated by the slammed shut door that "L.T." speaks of that is death... I look past that death... what I see past that death is the motivating factor of my life... I live not for this temporal world... but for the world to come... I seek to store up treasure there... that is done by proclaiming Gods Word... Life... Love... Forgiveness... to all who will listen... This is like planting seed for crops from which fruit will be born... He who plants the seed is does not make it grow... He who waters the seed does not make it grow... A man can not will a seed to grow... He can only plant it, and that by the will of God. And by Gods will it grows or not... Call me Johnny Appleseed... Many of the seeds I plant, in this world I will not see come to fruit... but none the less I plant. I inspite of my pride seek to serve men in any capacity that would show them the love of God. More often than not, I earn in this manor an audience... After I have served them, I share with them the hope that is within me.

Linetrash... try as you might, you will not be able to pawn off your guilt on some kind of brain washing that washed over you at some point in your life... God gave us a conscience in the same vein He gave us central nerveous system... You know better than to put your finger in the fire because of the central nerveous system... and you feel guilt because of your conscience... Inherantly you know Gods Law... and you know when you break them... All men... all societys... So, for all men... and you can ask around... the question we all seek an answer to, is "What do we do with our guilt?"... Cause we all have it, we all feel it, to a man, without exception. Ask, L.A., ask OGB, ask Batts... it is a burr in their saddle and they are honest people... they share honesty here... They all hurt inside because of this guilt they carry in them.

The beauty and joy of Christianity, is that you are able to lay the burden of your guilt upon Jesus. Should you do this, you will walk away free of this burden that so loads down the countenance of all men. Jesus paid for you, your debt you owe to the law for the wrong things you have done. This does not make you a slave of religion, but rather frees you from being a slave to trying to make right the things you have wronged. And we have all done things wrong... We all wish we had not done these things, we long to blot them from our memory. But we can't and so we suffer... But we need not suffer, because if we will just ask, Jesus will lift that burden from us... If you say that you do not carry this burden of guilt... YOU ARe A Lier... You don't believe it, nor does anyone around you believe it.

Oh, Line Trash, and Swamp, and all the other nay sayers on this board have a Faith... They believe what the believe... and believe you me, they have beliefs... Strong ones... just as strong as mine... they articulate them just as forcefuly as do I... Yet their belief system have no supporting evidence... no source of truth other than what they have derived from their own minds and experience... Even they will have to admit this. They can put forth no evidence or science to support what they believe.

[LINETRASH]

a friend of mine once told me to avoid politics and religion.

I have stayed clear of the politics...

Then I have to go and speak my mind about my beliefs.

It is what it is.

I would like to apoligize to all I have offended in my posts.

CP, I do have guilt, but I dont agree with the origin.

LA, luv ya girl, and I am sorry about the name dropping {Billy G.} It was simply an easy target.

I know well that I will never sway a religious person from their views, and it was wrong to blast anyone.

What the.... where did that come from????

Oh well, as far as I am concerned, live and let live.

Interesting topic though....

[LostArt]

a friend of mine once told me to avoid politics and religion.

I have stayed clear of the politics...

Then I have to go and speak my mind about my beliefs.

It is what it is.

I would like to apoligize to all I have offended in my posts.

CP, I do have guilt, but I dont agree with the origin.

LA, luv ya girl, and I am sorry about the name dropping {Billy G.} It was simply an easy target.

I know well that I will never sway a religious person from their views, and it was wrong to blast anyone.

What the.... where did that come from????

Oh well, as far as I am concerned, live and let live.

Interesting topic though....

LT, I'm not mad at you. I guess I was just thinking aloud actually. I only spoke what I thought also. It's actually odd really. Like most, I choose not to get into the pickle barrell, both with politics and religion.

You shouldn't apologize about the way you feel or your thoughts LT. And I'm SURE Swamp wasn't offended by my post. :D But, then again......I am a sinner and I don't even try to begin to take on what CP is doing. No way. Not for me.

[CenterPointEX]

a friend of mine once told me to avoid politics and religion.I have stayed clear of the politics... CP, I do have guilt, but I dont agree with the origin...Interesting topic though.... A lot men say they stear clear of politics and religion... but I don't beleive it... Why the most viewed place in the forum is the haunt of just those two subjects...

Yes, LT... We all have guilt... it eats at us and colors everything we do, say, think, and feel. Some turn to medication... drugs, alcholol, etc.... some try to stay busy enough that it will never catch up with them... immerse themselves in activities... work... relationships... etc... But each of us... without fail... fears solitude... because alone with ourselves, the truth shines in our hearts like the stars on a crisp clear night far away from the cities... The truth is as undeniable as the heavens. Yes, a man could say the stars don't exist... I mean nobody can touch em... so they must not be real... and yes... a man can say... my guilt matters not... for I live... I die... and when I am dead... It will be to me anyways as if I never lived... for my life will no longer matter... and someday... the big bang will reverse itself... this time space continuim will be wiped from the face of eternity and none of it... will have mattered... for none of it will survive... and maybe... just maybe in a zillion billion trillion quadrillion years... history will repeat itself... or not? That line of thinking my friend is pure unadulterated hopelessness...

[LostArt]

I think, "They" think,... you and I are both a couple of assholes! :D

Naaaaaah...........just wonderin' which ass is better'n the other. Heh.

[CenterPointEX]

The California Coast is full of cliffs that overlook the Pacific... It is an awe inspiring place to contemplate deep Sh@t.

[LostArt]

LOL! Oh man. Nice backside CP. :D

Okay, where is yours Swamp????? Heh.

[PA BEN]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

[LostArt]

Sorry Ben, really don't get your post sir. Aside from the fact you're quoting scripture.

It's one of those passages in the Bible that puts it all in a nutshell Swamp. In other words, it's the meat in the sandwich.

[Meat]

Some quotes that I like.(1) "Faith is believing what you know aint so." (2)"I consider Christian theology to be one of the greatest disasters of the human race."(3)"If you pray for rain long enough, it eventually does fall.If you pray for floodwaters to abate they eventually do.The same thing happens in the absence of prayer."(4)"I prayed for freedom for twenty years but recieved no answer until i prayed with my legs."(5)"If a man would follow, today,the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal.If he would strictly follow the teachings of the New, he would be insane." Be safe brothers.

["little beaver"]

"I consider Christian theology to be one of the greatest disasters of the human race."

Meat, you are a very confused person!!! Where were you in history Class??
Come out of your coma and look around, buddy. The countries that are stable, prosperous and operate by 'rule of law' are steeped in Christian heritage and principles. You don't have to agree with it, but you can't deny the reality of it.

[Meat]

These were not my quotes my friend. These quotes and similar ones are from some great Americans and others.Mark Twain, Thomas Jefferson Carl Sagan,Albert Einstein,Thomas Paine,Susan B Anthony,Ghandi, Oliver Wendell Holmes,George Washington and so on and so on. I'll leave you with one more." How should I know anything about another world when I know so little about this one."Confucius.

[Meat]

Thank you Swamp. Its all in fun and not meant to offend. Be safe.

[PA BEN]

13"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.''

[CenterPointEX]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=27752#post27752)
Some quotes that I like.(1) "Faith is believing what you know aint so."

So Meat, according to your favorite saying, Evolution is a Faith. Evolution is something folks believe in even though they
"know it aint so". Scientists know that all the evidence produced to support the religion of evolution has turned out to be non-evidence or an outright fake. OGB insists on believing in it, even though he "know it ain't so"... Thats why he dissents on the subject... to preserve his faith.

Swamp, You are correct on the pose thing... I took that pic myself while I was out in Cal. I set the cam on a rock, set the timer and jumped up on the next rock... I sent it back to my wife so's she wouldn't forget what I looked like... I spent way too much time out there... I loved the beaches in Cal though. The Pacific in front of you and the mountains in back... Like God painted a pic and put me in it.

Pa Ben, I Concur it is a heart thing, God don't need your money or your presence in Church. But He desires hearts that are willing to give and serve. The Church is a place where we can go to learn, hear, and share His Word. As you know Pa, a church is not a building... But rather Jesus said, "Where ever two or three are gathered in my name, there I will be also." The tent of meeting is where we gather togather to worship our God, whether it be a huge building or under an umbrella on the beach in Cal... We are encouraged all thru the Bible to go to the tent of meeting so that we do not neglect His Word. i.e.

Hebrews 10:25 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Hebrews+10:25&version=31) {-- blue link to Hebrews verse 10:25 "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

Acts 6:2 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Acts+6:2&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Acts+6&version=31)
So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God...

[LostArt]

............... it's the meat in the sandwich.

Well, I'll be dog gone. Talk about Meat and he shows up!

Welcome Meat.

[Bigheadnc]

Easy guys, LOL!! I believe in God. But I'm not very Religeous. Make any sense?

[Meat]

Thank you. One last quote and you can guess who said if you like then my annoying posts on this matter will end forever."Prayer is of no avail.The lightning falls on the just and unjust in accordance with natural laws".Be safe.

[LostArt]

Thank you. One last quote and you can guess who said if you like then my annoying posts on this matter will end forever."Prayer is of no avail.The lightning falls on the just and unjust in accordance with natural laws".Be safe.

Another rogue, it seems. Even a preacher's son to boot.

Ingersoll.

BTW, I found this on "American Atheists" site.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Jim Morrison? Of the Doors?

"When I was back there in Seminary school....."

"There was a person there, that said ..."

"You can paticion the Lord with PRAYER.

PATICION the Lord with Prayer...You Can NOT Paticion the Lord with Prayer..."

The Doors, The Soft Parade album

Showing your age Swamp, ah, those were the days.....Show me the way to the next whiskey bar, oh dont ask why.....

[CenterPointEX]

"Who endowed the heart with wisdom or gave understanding to the mind?"
Job Chapter 39

Meat, Certainly it evolved from Pre millineal goo struck by lightning?... Not!

...No heart evolved from premillenial goo... neither Wisdom... Meat, not if, but when the storm comes against a man; be he just or unjust the storm will come upon him, then will the foundation of that man crumble or stand... The wise man builds his house upon the "Rock", the foolish man builds his house opon shifting sands... Jesus told Peter, you are a Rock and upon this Rock I will build my church... Jesus was not saying he would be building his church upon Peter a.k.a a sucession of Popes etc. But rather Jesus was refering to the confession that Petra had just made... That Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. The Rock upon which a mans house will stand is the same confession... Jesus said, "I am the capstone" and again I am the Rock over which many will stumble...

Oh Meat, the prayer of an unrighteous man is grounded like a pilot with failing eyesight... Then, "will any prayer ever go forth? you ask... "since all men are unrighteous"?... The Bible says, "there is no one righteous, no not one..." Then how will God ever hear any of us? I'll tell you how... when we put our trust in Jesus, we put on his righteousness... we die to our sins and are reborn in Him... Giving us access in prayer thru Jesus to the Father... Then will He hear our prayers... There is one mediator who is Christ... If you are not going thru Him you might as well be a Super Duper Religious man praying to a Matador or a Ford Pinto... Praying to either will yeild the same result... or maybe a not so religious man praying to Mecca... ditto!

[PA BEN]

CP, what a breath of fresh air. I for one appreciate your wisdom. The light of the Lord shines bright in your heart. Keep up the GOOD work!

[Meat]

Oh heck one more could'nt hurt."Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities" Voltaire. Be safe.

[CenterPointEX]

Amen Meat, "Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities" Hitler was a staunch Evolutionist... Fresh off Origin of the Species Hitler began to march in his heart... His goal, genetic cleansing... production of a master race... Hitler fell for the lie that Satan told Eve in the garden... You can be like God! Your way is just as good as his... Yes Hitler fell for the lie that he could be a god... because Hitler believed the absurdity that our existence is slightly discernable from that of the apes and that in order for the species to survive a little longer it needed an engineer to redirect it... a god if you will...Yes Meat, I concur... "Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities"

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB insists on believing in it, even though he "know it ain't so"... Thats why he dissents on the subject... to preserve his faith.



Ya certainly are in the "know" CP, you not only have ALL the answers regarding scripture and organized religion, now you can discern from thousands of miles away, what "I know aint so"....an Oracle, are you.....?

[CenterPointEX]

Oracle no... Eyes of the Heart open? yes... OGB... all men without exception inherantly know the Truth.. yourself included... jump up and down... blow steam out your ears... down a fifth of whiskey... pop a case of Ding Dongs... still the Truth remains...

When men speak, they reveal their hearts. Not all speech is overt. A picture speaks a thouand words... With our words we paint pictures. Body language is picture... Just like a man can lie with words, so can he lie with body language... But, Try as a man might, to cloak that which is in his heart, the eyes never lie. Look into a mans eyes and you will see who he is... look into the eyes of a mans heart and see his soul...

Looking into the eyes of a mans heart is not a physical action, but rather it is an attribute of the spirit. Neither the spirit nor it's wisdom are bound by physicality. "Fear of God is the beginning of all Wisdom." Today I ate lunch with a bunch of fourth graders... One little girl inquired about the occupation of my wife. I told her she was a CPA that handled money for bussinesses... The child said, I would like to be a CPA so I could steal the money... I like money... I asked if she had ever stole anything before... she had... I asked if stealing bothered her, she said it didn't... This child is upper middle class and lacks need of anything save morality... I saw in her a glimpse of those who raised her even though I have never met her parents. So, you see OGB... many will know you, though you will never have the pleasure to shake their hand... They will know you from the picture you have painted... be it with words, on the heart of a child, in cyber space, or in the demeanor of a subordinate... What kind of picture are you painting?

[Orgnizdlbr]

Oracle no... Eyes of the Heart open? yes... OGB... all men without exception inherantly know the Truth.. yourself included... jump up and down... blow steam out your ears... down a fifth of whiskey... pop a case of Ding Dongs... still the Truth remains...

When men speak, they reveal their hearts. Not all speech is overt. A picture speaks a thouand words... With our words we paint pictures. Body language is picture... Just like a man can lie with words, so can he lie with body language... But, Try as a man might, to cloak that which is in his heart, the eyes never lie. Look into a mans eyes and you will see who he is... look into the eyes of a mans heart and see his soul...

Pretty good, ya looked into my eyes and we have never met......

[n4cer2]

Hello to all that have imput their opinion on religion. I am quite surprised, and impressed to find this a topic of discussion. I have read alot of the opinions that have been posted, and find them to be quite interesting, especially those of the swamprat. I hope noone will be offended if I put my 2 cents in. You see, I think that the greatest miracle that GOD has performed in my life is me. You see, I used to be worse than swamprat. Whereas swamprat now worships himself, I used to worship satan.:( I was into witchcraft. I used to fool myself into thinking that it was ok. I was into white witchcraft, where I would only do things that were for the good of others. What I didn't put together as that I was still calling on satan and demons to accomplish these things. I thank GOD that he delivered me from that lifestyle. I have come a long way since those days, and am much happier. I have found that the closer I am to Jesus and GOD the happier I am. I used to think I was happy back in my bad days, but there was always something missing, and I didn't know what that something was until I let GOD into my life. Now I will not bore you with any more of the details, but the miracle I spoke of at the beginning was GOD saving a sinner as great as me. Now I have one question for all of you who do not believe, or are on the line. If you non-believers are right,and there is no GOD, then I have lived a better life, because it has been proven that the bible(GOD's living word) is the most moral book ever written. However, if I am right, and those of you who do not believe in GOD are wrong, then I will go to heaven and you will go serve an eternity in hell. Are you willing to take that chance. I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But I know my destination. Here is the catch. We will not really know until the rapture happens, and by then it may be to late. I am not willing to take the chance. Thank you for my time on the soap box. I will be interested to know how many of you I will see in heaven.

[CenterPointEX]

It will be an honor to shake your hand on the flip side Mr. Enforcer... Godspeed!

[n4cer2]

you are well versed in the bible me centerpoint. It is good to know that there are others like me in this trade. To many people in this trade have thrown GOD to the wayside. I look forward to the day I will be able to shake your hand and say good job.

[n4cer2]

I will keep up on this thread, but I have to go for now. All of my fellow brothers in Christ, I will be back in the morning.

GOD Bless you all

[Orgnizdlbr]

If you non-believers are right,and there is no GOD, then I have lived a better life, because it has been proven that the bible(GOD's living word) is the most moral book ever written.


And who's and what proof do you have to substantiate and coroborate such a statement?


However, if I am right, and those of you who do not believe in GOD are wrong, then I will go to heaven and you will go serve an eternity in hell. Are you willing to take

Judge not, lest thee thyself be judged...

You have found God, that is good, the problem that I have with those who prosyletize (spelling) is that ultimately, at some point, they always find the need to tell me that I will spend my eternity in hell. But if you believe the book you read, you know I'll be judged by only ONE, and it aint you....

[CenterPointEX]

If you non-believers are right,and there is no GOD, then I have lived a better life, because it has been proven that the bible(GOD's living word) is the most moral book ever written.,,,
And who's and what proof do you have to substantiate and coroborate such a statement? Judge not, lest thee thyself be judged..

origionaly posted by CPX
.(again this is the most misquoted phrase in the Bible by non beleivers agnostics, muslims, athiests, mormans, and JW's)
... What strikes me silly is that OGB guards Catholicism as a centenial of Truth... Yet he makes statements like this... Swamp is more truthful and less dangereous because at least Swamp is overt about his faith. He only speaks one gospel and make no bones about it. You know where he is comming from and what he is about... that you can work with. But claiming to be of the faith, then attacking the principles of the faith is in of the line of a wolf in sheeps clothing. Covert Agnosticisim... in the vein of Genisis 3... Surely you won't die said Satan to Eve... God is a good God and won't kill you for not following his way...

[Orgnizdlbr]

,,, What strikes me silly is that OGB guards Catholicism as a centenial of Truth... Yet he makes statements like this... Swamp is more truthful and less dangereous because at least Swamp is overt about his faith. He only speaks one gospel and make no bones about it. You know where he is comming from and what he is about... that you can work with. But claiming to be of the faith, then attacking the principles of the faith is in of the line of a wolf in sheeps clothing. Covert Agnosticisim... in the vein of Genisis 3... Surely you won't die said Satan to Eve... God is a good God and won't kill you for not following his way...

LOL, yes there is danger in my post.....the danger is when I point out scripture that is opposed to your evangelical message. You dont like that do you?

[CenterPointEX]

LOL, yes there is danger in my post.....the danger is when I point out scripture that is opposed to your evangelical message. You dont like that do you? OGB... are you bucking for Swamps poster child position? PRAY tell, to which scripture are you refering that is opposed to my evangelical Christian message? Enlighten us as to how your Catholicism is opposed to the Evangelical Christian message... Is this a Fruedian slip or have you found the courage to throw off your sheep suit and represent?


In the words of L.A.... this ought to be good!

Leviticus 19:15 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Leviticus+19:15&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Leviticus+19&version=31)
" 'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

1 Kings 8:32 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Kings+8:32&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Kings+8&version=31) 31 "When a man wrongs his neighbor ...32 then hear from heaven and act. Judge between your servants, condemning the guilty and... Declare the innocent not guilty...

Ezekiel 18:8 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ezekiel+18:8&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ezekiel+18&version=31)5 "Suppose there is a righteous man who does what is just and right...He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between man and man.


6 “Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy.[e (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7&version1=51#fen-NLT-23298e)] Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.

1 Corinthians 5:12 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 5:12&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 5&version=31)
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

Revelation 20:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+20:4&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+20&version=31)
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

In Matthew 7 Jesus was speaking to men who were holding others to the letter of the Law in total disreguard to the Spirit of the Law (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7:1&version=31)
Matthew 7:1 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7:1&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7&version=31) “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged (by others). 2 For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged. (by others) 3 “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? 4 How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

Origionaly posted by Orgnizdlbr
Matthew7 ... You and your ilk judge me; that is at opposition to the verse above.
Now give me your unbridled "TRUTH" on how it doesnt apply to you Hypocrite. Correct me if'n I'm wrong OGB, is "ilk" a word of Judgement? When you judge me to be a hypocrite, do you do so in the vein of verse 5 of Mat 7. That verse is saying, "Get right with God before you go around trying to teach others how to get right with God!" I'm beginning to think Swamp can't hold a candle to this poster child.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Matthew7

1

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


You and your ilk judge me; that is at opposition to the verse above.
Now give me your unbridled "TRUTH" on how it doesnt apply to you Hypocrite.

[LostArt]

What amazes me is this, you both agree to whom the JUDGE is. But, what I want to ask is your versions on what a Christian is. Just curious as to if you both agree on this one too. :D

[Orgnizdlbr]

OGB... are you bucking for Swamps poster child position? PRAY tell, to which scripture are you refering that is opposed to my evangelical Christian message? Enlighten us as to how your Catholicism is opposed to the Evangelical Christian message... Is this a Fruedian slip or have you found the courage to throw off your sheep suit and represent?


In the words of L.A.... this ought to be good!

Leviticus 19:15 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Leviticus+19:15&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Leviticus+19&version=31)
" 'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

1 Kings 8:32 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Kings+8:32&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Kings+8&version=31) 31 "When a man wrongs his neighbor ...32 then hear from heaven and act. Judge between your servants, condemning the guilty and... Declare the innocent not guilty...

Ezekiel 18:8 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ezekiel+18:8&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ezekiel+18&version=31)5 "Suppose there is a righteous man who does what is just and right...He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between man and man.


6 “Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy.[e (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7&version1=51#fen-NLT-23298e)] Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.

1 Corinthians 5:12 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 5:12&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 5&version=31)
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

Revelation 20:4 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+20:4&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+20&version=31)
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

In Matthew 7 Jesus was speaking to men who were holding others to the letter of the Law in total disreguard to the Spirit of the Law (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7:1&version=31)
Matthew 7:1 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7:1&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7&version=31) “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged (by others). 2 For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged. (by others) 3 “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? 4 How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

Origionaly posted by Orgnizdlbr Correct me if'n I'm wrong OGB, is "ilk" a word of Judgement? When you judge me to be a hypocrite, do you do so in the vein of verse 5 of Mat 7. That verse is saying, "Get right with God before you go around trying to teach others how to get right with God!" I'm beginning to think Swamp can't hold a candle to this poster child.


You left out Luke 6:37,Romans 2:1, and James 4:12

Ilk meaning people of like mind and opinion. Yes when I make a statement like I did, I am certainly judging you, the same as you judge me. The difference between my statement of judgement and yours is that I judge you from a human perspective, when statements are made telling me I will burn in hell, those statements are interpreted as coming from one who is infalable. Is that what you're trying to portray, infalability? If not it seems so.

Thanks for the moniker of poster child, you made my day, LOL!

[LostArt]

Thanks for the moniker of poster child, you made my day, LOL!

Poor Swamp. It sucks to be you buddy! :D

OKAAAAAY! I'm outta here since you both are going to ignore me anyway!

[LostArt]

Not only now,.... have I lost my position as "Lead Poster Child", I haven't got the balls to show my own Ass.:p



http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

[Dave@PSE&G]

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee." Eziekiel 25:17

This isn't really relevent to the conversations. It's the quote from Jules the hit man in "Pulp Fiction". I just wanted to play with you guys.:cool:

Actually, when I think about it, I'd say it is pretty much sums up what CP is about, in a nutshell.

[CenterPointEX]

You left out Luke 6:37,Romans 2:1, and James 4:12
Ilk meaning people of like mind and opinion. Yes when I make a statement like I did, I am certainly judging you, the same as you judge me. The difference between my statement of judgement and yours is that I judge you from a human perspective, when statements are made telling me I will burn in hell, those statements are interpreted as coming from one who is infalable. Is that what you're trying to portray, infalability? If not it seems so. Thanks for the moniker of poster child, you made my day, LOL! In some circles when I tell folks of opinions like yours and Swamps, they don't believe me... They don't understand how a man can say, I am a Christian, I don't believe the Bible is true, I don't believe Jesus physicaly rose from the dead, I beleive Man is the product of Evolution, not Gods instant finished production... etc. ... The poster child monkeyear ;{---- cool word (pun intended), is one I hang on the wall for show and tell...

Mr. OGB... I am here to inform you that I hold no power over men to condem them to Heaven or reward them with Hell... It is my postion that all men need not go to Hell... Its is my postion that all men; if they so chose, may reject Jesus Christs payment on the cross for their sins. It is my postion that all men who accept the Sacrifice of Jesus as our only means of salvation are Christians (L.A.) and will go to heaven,... all who do not accept Christs sacrifice for their sins will go to hell...It is a free gift for all who will accept... Swamp, OGB, Batts, and yours truely are all in the same boat in the eyes of God... Sinners in need of a Savior... I am no better or worse than Batts, Hitler, Mother Teresia, or the Pope for that matter... I my friend am by no stretch of the imagination infalible... nor are my utterings... But the good news that I set forth here is straight from the incorruptable, inerrant, infalible word of God... This I believe... This I build my foundation on... This with the help of God will I go to the grave professing... for God has touched me... After he touched me, a red carpet was not rolled out before me upon which I could walk with ease thru this world... but rather a hand was laid upon my shoulder to steady me in order that I might traverse its terrain...

OGB, if I make a statement like,

..........."If you do not accept Christs finished work on the cross as your only means of salvation, then most certainly you will burn in Hell."

I assure you those are not my words but rather the Word of God... taken from the pages of the best selling Book of all times and all ages inspired by the Author of Life Himself.

I judge rightness or wrongnes of a mans position not from any authroity of my own, but with my Bible Goggles on. I sift all things thru His Word. Just as fire purifies gold, so does Gods Word smelt a mans heart. The finished product is the fruit of his labor... and so I know He who has begun a good work in me will most certainly bring it to fruition.

[Orgnizdlbr]

In some circles when I tell folks of opinions like yours and Swamps, they don't believe me... They don't understand how a man can say, I am a Christian, I don't believe the Bible is true, I don't believe Jesus physicaly rose from the dead, I beleive Man is the product of Evolution, not Gods instant finished production... etc. ... The poster child monkeyear ;{---- cool word (pun intended), is one I hang on the wall for show and tell...

Mr. OGB... I am here to inform you that I hold no power over men to condem them to Heaven or reward them with Hell... It is my postion that all men need not go to Hell... Its is my postion that all men; if they so chose, may reject Jesus Christs payment on the cross for their sins. It is my postion that all men who accept the Sacrifice of Jesus as our only means of salvation are Christians (L.A.) and will go to heaven,... all who do not accept Christs sacrifice for their sins will go to hell...It is a free gift for all who will accept... Swamp, OGB, Batts, and yours truely are all in the same boat in the eyes of God... Sinners in need of a Savior... I am no better or worse than Batts, Hitler, Mother Teresia, or the Pope for that matter... I my friend am by no stretch of the imagination infalible... nor are my utterings... But the good news that I set forth here is straight from the incorruptable, inerrant, infalible word of God... This I believe... This I build my foundation on... This with the help of God will I go to the grave professing... for God has touched me... After he touched me, a red carpet was not rolled out before me upon which I could walk with ease thru this world... but rather a hand was laid upon my shoulder to steady me in order that I might traverse its terrain...

OGB, if I make a statement like,

..........."If you do not accept Christs finished work on the cross as your only means of salvation, then most certainly you will burn in Hell."

I assure you those are not my words but rather the Word of God... taken from the pages of the best selling Book of all times and all ages inspired by the Author of Life Himself.

I judge rightness or wrongnes of a mans position not from any authroity of my own, but with my Bible Goggles on. I sift all things thru His Word. Just as fire purifies gold, so does Gods Word smelt a mans heart. The finished product is the fruit of his labor... and so I know He who has begun a good work in me will most certainly bring it to fruition.

Eloquently put, but lets go back to what I pointed out you omitted, 6:37, Romans 2:1, James 4:12.

Perhaps after you point out the intent of those passages, we'll review a few more contradictions in the innerrant word.......


In some circles when I tell folks of opinions like yours and Swamps, they don't believe me... They don't understand how a man can say, I am a Christian, I don't believe the Bible is true, I don't believe Jesus physicaly rose from the dead, I beleive Man is the product of Evolution, not Gods instant finished production... etc. ... The poster child monkeyear ;{---- cool word (pun intended), is one I hang on the wall for show and tell...

I love ya CP, ya even talk about Swamp and myself when you go to Bible study.....

[Orgnizdlbr]

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.


James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.


James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

[Orgnizdlbr]

Luke 6: (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+6:2&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+6&version=31) "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them.... 35But love your enemies, do good to them,... Then your reward will be great,... 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful... 37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven... "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41"Why do you judge your brother's sin and pay no attention to your own sin? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me show you your sin ,' when you yourself fail to see the sin in your own heart? You hypocrite, first judge the sin in your own heart, and then you will see clearly to judge the sin in your brothers heart.

Jesus, was a most awesome teacher... His lessons though they could be understood simply on the surface dove deep into the heart of a man. On the surface the "If you love only those..." passage spoke of the depth of his love... But ultimately it spoke of the Cross and its delieverance. On the surface it told of loving your enimies to change their hearts. In application it told of a heart transplant to replace our own stone cold dead hearts with a warm one that lives... On the surface the do not judge spoke to the heart of the Jewish Lawyers... because they excluded from fellowship those who broke the letter of the Jewish Law, themselves all the while having no understanding\wisdom of the Spirit of the Law. Jesus was saying to them, "Come to me, let me wash you, receive the Spirit, and then and only then will your Spiritual eyes be opened that you might be able to judge rightly among your brothers.

In Luke 6 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+6:2&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+6&version=31) , Cut it any way you want to slice it... Jesus was not saying, "Do not judge right from wrong."; as seems to be your postion OGB, but Jesus was saying, "Judge not right from wrong in accordance with judgements springing from Mans wisdom, but rather know and judge righteousness according to Gods Word/Wisdom." We would be foolish and unBiblical to judge no mans actions as righteous or unrighteous, thus letting men do as they pleased when and where ever they pleased. This would be Chaos... But we are called to judge right righteously... Righteous is know and doing what is right according to Gods Word... anything less would be anarchey.

Romans 2:1 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+2:1&version=31) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+2&version=31) Again this message is played out in Romans Chapter 2, The point is made that Men are excluding from fellowship those who have broken the letter of the Law even though those who sit in Judgement have no understanding\wisdom of the Spirit of the Law. They find you guilty, condem you and refrain from loving you because you have broken the lette of the law... not realizing that they themselves are guilty and therefore are under penalty of the Law. Jesus, in his own words spoken and revealed thru the pen of Paul, urged us to Love our Enemies inspite of thier sin against us... offering them Forgiveness and Hope just as Christ has done for us.

( James Chapter 4) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=James+4&version=31) Ditto in James Chapter 4, click theblue link ---> ( James Chapter 4) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=James+4&version=31) <----to read

I enjoy how you edit and add to your post after you see what I have posted earlier......classy!

[Orgnizdlbr]

Cut it any way you want to slice it... Jesus was not saying, "Do not judge right from wrong."; as seems to be your postion OGB, but Jesus was saying, "Judge not right from wrong in accordance with judgements springing from Mans wisdom, but rather know and judge righteousness according to Gods Word/Wisdom." We would be foolish and unBiblical to judge no mans actions as righteous or unrighteous, thus letting men do as they pleased when and where ever they pleased. This would be Chaos... But we are called to judge right righteously... Righteous is know and doing what is right according to Gods Word... anything less would be anarchey.




Again this message is played out in Romans Chapter 2, The point is made that Men are excluding from fellowship those who have broken the letter of the Law even though those who sit in Judgement have no understanding\wisdom of the Spirit of the Law. They find you guilty, condem you and refrain from loving you because you have broken the lette of the law... not realizing that they themselves are guilty and therefore are under penalty of the Law. Jesus, in his own words spoken and revealed thru the pen of Paul, urged us to Love our Enemies inspite of thier sin against us... offering them Forgiveness and Hope just as Christ has done for us.


And the interpretation of the passages set forth are atributed to whom????

[CenterPointEX]

OGB, I edit it til I get it right, you were quick on the draw responding during my edit... anyhow.

Origionaly posted by OGB
And the interpretation of the passages set forth are atributed to whom Read the passages, that is why I put the links there. The context supports this interpretation... Your position seems to be that we should not judge right from wrong. You pull the "Do not Judge" out of context to make that point. If you take the Bible as a whole, it interprets itself... You use Bible to interpret Bible... So if you read the passages in context along with the rest of the Bible i.e. the following 1 Corinthians you will see that though the situations ever change, the message does not. You see we are not called to judge whether a man will go to heaven or hell, we are called to judge right from wrong and police that among us... and share our knowledge of right and wrong with those of the faith and those seeking the faith.

(1 Corinthians 5) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 5&version=31)
Judge the Immoral Brother! 1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has sex with his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present....
6...Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

They did expel this fella, He repented of his lifestyle cleaned hisself up and returned to the Church. Previous to his beig rebuked he saw nothing wrong with what he was doing... The congregation was accepting his misdeeds thus in effect ratifying what he was doing... Just as in today when a congregation ratifys the Gay Lifestyle. According to Gods Word men having sex with men is wrong... We are called to judge men doing this accordingly as living a wrong unGodly life.

(2Timothy 3) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2%20Timothy+3&version=31)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Godlessness in the Last Days

2 Timothy 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with God.
6They are the kind... who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8... these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because,... their folly will be clear to everyone.

OGB, why is it you think that these men like Swamp,Meat, Little Beaver and Batts will not acknowledge the truth but rather oppose it

[Orgnizdlbr]

2 Timothy 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with God.
6They are the kind... who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8... these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because,... their folly will be clear to everyone.

OGB, why is it you think that these men like Swamp,Meat, Little Beaver and Batts will not acknowledge the truth but rather oppose it

Um, just what did I miss? Where have I spoken about anyone you mentioned in the context of your supposition?

I assume I am of depraved mind.....IYO
__________________

[Orgnizdlbr]

the following 1 Corinthians you will see that though the situations ever change, the message does not.


1 Corinthians 1:27 God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

The message does not change?

Another point, the Bible is interpreted by the people who read it, some of those who interpret it have different interpretations than others.

[CenterPointEX]

Again I reiterate, if you use mans wisdom to inturpret, folly soon follows... thus I stress, if you use Bible to inturpret Bible you will never go wrong. Again you pull quotes out of context to make them conflict.
I assume I am of depraved mind... If the shoe fits wear it. Are you "able to acknowledge the truth, do you oppose the truth?".


The message does not change?

First off OGB, you suffer in your understanding some because you are reading the Spanish version of the Bible instead of the english... I'm being facious, but I make a Point. The Spanish version was translated from the origional languages to Spanish by men who were versed in both languages, the Spanish version was not translated from English to Spanish. You read from the King James Version which is translated from the origional languages to the Kings English... Americans by no stretch of the imagination speak the Kings English. I recomend you pick up a copy of the Bible translated from the origional languages to Todays American English. The links I provide are from the NIV which is a very good one true to the origonal manuscripts. I do like and use the KJV for word study.
....The KJV is truer to transliteration than translation. An example of transliteration would be el Rio Grande tranliterated "the River Big", Translated it would read, "The Big River" Because KJV tried to go word for word it choppy at times and hard to follow especially if'n you're not versed in the Kings English. But the transliteration is helpful in doing word studys on the original words. The NLB is a paraphrase which conveys the meaning of a passage but is not so true to exact words in a passage it is good for reading huge portions because it is way easier to read than word for word translations.

A Kings English definition of "confound" is to shame or frustrate. If you read the context of the passage you will see that God considered the wisdom of men foolishness... and that the world considered Christ crucified for their sins foolishness. God chose to use this foolisness to frustrate men in their own wisdom that in their frustration they would turn to him for Wisdom Truth. So you see God is not the purveyor of foolishness as you suggest the passage reads but rather an instructor who steers you away from your own folly.

Therefore:

1 Corinthians 1:27 God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

(1 corinthians) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 1&version=31)23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called,... the wisdom of God...26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards;... 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong...29so that no one may boast before him... 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."[d (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 1&version=31#fen-NIV-28379d)]

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

God did not author the confusion of 1:27 but he did chose to use it to show men the futility of it. The first passage does not conflict with the second. God chose to use the foolish things of the World to confound the wise. The fist passage does not say or imply that God authored the foolish things. So, the second holds true, God is not the author of confusion.

[Orgnizdlbr]

First off OGB, you suffer in your understanding some because you are reading the Spanish version of the Bible instead of the english... I'm being facious, but I make a Point. The Spanish version was translated from the origional languages to Spanish by men who were versed in both languages, the Spanish version was not translated from English to Spanish. You read from the King James Version which is translated from the origional languages to the Kings English... Americans by no stretch of the imagination speak the Kings English. I recomend you pick up a copy of the Bible translated from the origional languages to Todays American English. The links I provide are from the NIV which is a very good one true to the origonal manuscripts. I do like and use the KJV for word study.
....The KJV is truer to transliteration than translation. An example of transliteration would be el Rio Grande tranliterated "the River Big", Translated it would read, "The Big River" Because KJV tried to go word for word it choppy at times and hard to follow especially if'n you're not versed in the Kings English. But the transliteration is helpful in doing word studys on the original words. The NLV is a paraphrase which conveys the meaning of a passage but is not so true to exact words in a passage it is good for reading huge portions because it is way easier to read that word for word translations.


No habla Espanol Amigo...

I can only read into your comment, that whatever source I use to quote scripture is fallible, conversly, I read into your comment that the source that you use in infallible.



1 Corinthians 1:27 God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.


The first passage does not conflict with the second. God chose to use the foolish things of the World to confound the wise. The fist passage does not say or imply that God authored the foolish things. So, the second holds true, God is not the author of confusion.



I beg to differ, the quoted passages are in conflict. But, you ussually extrapolate with all that I post in order to make yourself right and me wrong, thats fine, I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is being told I am going to spend eternity in hell by people who know there is only one who will sit in judgement.

[CenterPointEX]

No habla Espanol Amigo....I concur...Neither do you habla King James English!
Again I reiterate, If you use mans wisdom to inturpret, folly soon follows... thus I stress, if you use Bible to inturpret Bible you will never go wrong. Again you pull quotes out of context to make them conflict.


I can only read into your comment, that whatever source I use to quote scripture is fallible, conversly, I read into your comment that the source that you use in infallible. Now you are pulling my quotes out of context... I did not say your source was not infalible... In their respective language the meaning is the same. But since you do not speak or understand the Kings English, you are therefor injecting into its reading something that is not there. That is why I suggest you pick up a copy of the Bible that is written in American English then argue with it if you must. If you pick up a Spanish version and argue the meaning though you are not versed in Spanish, you argue in vain.The two supposed passages are not in conflict if you read them in American English in context... Or if you are versed in the Kings English Ditto... If you insist on reading King James then I suggest you get yourself a good dictionary that will lead you to the meaning of the Kings English verbage.

and again I have no power to condem you to heaven or reward you with Hell, only God knows your true heart, but I can show you scripture that says that those who reject Christs finished work on the cross in payment for their sins will see no part of Heaven. What kind of men are these you ask?.. "8... these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because,... their folly will be clear to everyone."

[CenterPointEX]

Again I reiterate, If you use mans wisdom to inturpret, folly soon follows... thus I stress, if you use Bible to inturpret Bible you will never go wrong. Again you pull quotes out of context to make them conflict.

Now you are pulling my quotes out of context... I did not say your source was not infalible... In their respective language the meaning is the same. But since you do not speak or understand the Kings English, you are therefor injecting into its reading something that is not there. That is why I suggest you pick up a copy of the Bible that is written in American English then argue with it if you must. If you pick up a Spanish version and argue the meaning though you are not versed in Spanish, you argue in vain.The two supposed passages are not in conflict if you read them in American English in context... Or if you are versed in the Kings English Ditto... If you insist on reading King James then I suggest you get yourself a good dictionary that will lead you to the meaning of the Kings English verbage.

and again I have no power to condem you to heaven or reward you with Hell, only God knows your true heart, but I can show you scripture that says that those who reject Christs finished work on the cross in payment for their sins will see no part of Heaven. What kind of men are these you ask?.. "8... these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because,... their folly will be clear to everyone."


I beg to differ, the quoted passages are in cathlic.(link to 1 corinthians) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians+ 1&version=31) The particular word at hand you use to make these passages conflict is the word confound... In the Kings english it means to frustrate and shame... In American English is to "throw off understanding".. Thus if you attach a wrong defintion to a word then you have redefined the word. If you give any definition you want to words, then he who defines words defines truth. At that point all statements conflict and at the same time concur. Which now that I think about it seems to be your eternal postion. All statements conflict and at the same time concur?...I could think of no better definition of Hell...

God makes His point in Corinthians that he is not the Author of throwing off understaning... That is mans folly... but rather God is the Author of wisdom and understanding... These passages make it clear that God uses mans foolishness/confusion/lack of wisdom to shame him. That man would seek true knowlege/Gods Wisdom/Jesus Christ

But, Alas...Some men are " 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8... these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds..."

Foolishness was preached by Satan in Gen 3; Satan not God was/is the author of this foolishness, foolishness is still preached today, God choses to use this foolishness to lead us to the truth... That my friend is a blessing.

[LINETRASH]

What about Jahova Witnesses and others of that faith?

I firmly respect any religion that reflects logic. And some that are farfetched.

I draw the line on the welfair of innocents.

If A ****ed up pair of parents decide , for religious resons, that thier child should forgo a life saving blood transfusion based on religious beliefs, I believe they should be arrested and the life of the child saved .

Come on guys, shine that bright torch of wisdom over me and prove me wrong.

I see an asshole driving their car down the road with their kids bouncing all over the backseat, with a "Jesus" bumper sticker. Waiting for an accident that will be tragic.

What do you teach your kids? Personally, I make mine respect elders and be polite to everybody.

I have seen kids with their parents at the store where the kids are running wild, raising hell , and the parents dont seem to notice....

Spare the rod and spoil the child..... It's true!

Talk to my kids and you will find intelligence and good humor, for I Did NOT spare the rod.

My boys are smart but never cruel.

They are strong but never bullies.

I have made it clear that they will be good kids.

Shame on those who let their kids run wild, with no concience, those who would become bullies.

I can only smile when I think of the bullies meeting my boys, both huge gentle giants.

The outcome will prove character. And lack of......

Allow me to intoroduce my great kids:

Brandon M. Kelly Age 16
Bradley G. Kelly. Age 14

Great kids, they wil kick the shit out of any asshole who elects to **** with the innocent.

A Dad can only ask for so much.
I am proud of my kids.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Romans 3:10 There is none righteous, no, not one

Matthewn25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Does righteous have the same meaning in the above quoted passages, or does the "Kings English" make these passages uncontradictory?

[CenterPointEX]

Romans 3:10 There is none righteous, no, not one
Matthewn25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Does righteous have the same meaning in the above quoted passages, or does the "Kings English" make these passages uncontradictory?Dang, you are getting good at this poster child thing... Righteousness means Righteous... Knowing and doing whats right according to Gods Word... The Romans passage means what it says... There is no one righteous not even one... And the unrighteous shall not enter the kingdom of heaven... Then how pray tell will even one soul enter into those pearly gates? Therin lies the cruxt of Christianity... You in your question have throw a bulls eye blind folded... Thats the beauty of putting your trust in Jesus... If you will go on to read chapter six of Romans you will find that when we turn from ourselves and repent giving our sin to Christ... who died with it... Then we ourselves died with him... and he lives in us thru the Holy Spirit and us in HIm... When he rose from the dead we rose with Him in Him... Now here is the Miricle OGB... We put on Christ... We are clothed in His Righteousness... We, though we have no righteousness in us, have put on the Righteousness of Christ... and in His righteousness imparted to us we enter thru those pearly gates to reign with Him eternaly... The book of Romans labors the point that apart from Christ we are Trash... destined for Hell... But clothed in Christ we are sons with Him of the Father...

This is the message carried by the Poster Child of the Gospel... This is the Good news... This is what has exilerated those to whom it has been revealed thru the ages... Jesus didn't they teach you anything about the Bible in that Church you belong to? Did they leave out the gospel in your tent of meeting? I just can't imagine its digressed to teaching only law, pennance, and working off your debt thru assigned works? Tell me it ain't so...

[Meat]

Rumor has it Cp is annoying the heck out of the Almighty too and he ain't gonna let him up there.Be safe.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Jesus didn't they teach you anything about the Bible in that Church you belong to? Did they leave out the gospel in your tent of meeting? I just can't imagine its digressed to teaching only law, pennance, and working off your debt thru assigned works? Tell me it ain't so...

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life.

Psalm 62:12 For you render to each one according to his works

Jeremiah 17:10 I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Ezekial 18:27 When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul.

Lets hear about these passages in the context of the pasted quote above it. There are many more, as you know. Please explain all knowing one.

[Orgnizdlbr]

... Jesus didn't they teach you anything about the Bible in that Church you belong to? Did they leave out the gospel in your tent of meeting? I just can't imagine its digressed to teaching only law, pennance, and working off your debt thru assigned works? Tell me it ain't so...



This is the part that really puzzles me about you CP, I believe you have convictions and want others to find what you have found. But why do you feel the need to resort to such condesention? Your posts start out civilly, but then you become frustrated and you cast aspersions at whoever is "testing" you....seems you need to seek some guidance in order to find a remedy for that temper of yours. Ok, I'll ease up on ya for a while, give you some time to reflect on that part of your posts. Or maybe you feel that it is proper and right to inject condesention into this discussion, I dont know, but you are playing to a broad audience CP, as the saying goes: you get more flies with honey than vinegar.....

[PA BEN]

James 2

Faith and Works
14What use is it,my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

16and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. :D

[CenterPointEX]

"Aspersions"? Look that up in the dictionary OGB and notice the 1570 meaning as opposed to todays meaning...If find it humoreous you pulled that our of your arsenal as a boomerang and forgot to duck! Quack! But I digress... A perfect segway... I began to answer your questions but the darn thing locked up as I hit the Post button... Thats why I a lot of times post edit, edit, edit... this lock has happend to me oft enough that I find a way around losing it all... I will try again tomorrow... today I need sleep...

Good Night John Boy...

[n4cer2]

Hello Swamprat. O.K., here is my story. How did I get into witchcraft? When I was a teen, I used to go to church(notice that I went to church, no I was not saved). There was a sweet lady there that was constantly bugging me telling me that I was going to be a preacher. To the point that I got so fed up with being pushed that I told her "you are right, I am going to be a preacher, but as a cover for being an assassin". Not very nice I know. Shortly after that I ended up in Germany. Europe is real big into witchcraft. On top of that, one of by buds was a satanic priest. He gave me the satanic bible to read and after reading it I decided that it was way to off for me. Well, then I picked up the witches bible and read that. Well, I fell for what it was saying, and for the next 3 years I studied wicca. How did I get out of witchcraft? GOD used my current wife. When I arrived back into the states GOD introduced me to my wife. Shortly after we met we moved in together. Yes, we lived in sin. I was not a christian at the time and didn't know better. My wife was a backslidden christian(which happens to almost everyone at some point). When we moved in together, it was her apartment, and she would not allow my books in her apartment. She didn't push christianity on me, just wouldn't allow me to have my books. Well, after talking periodically, I began to become more interested in what GOD had to offer. 3 years after we met, I was saved in an Assembly of GOD in Minnesota. My life has been wonderful every since. I used to think I was happy, but after GOD saved me, I then knew true happiness. There you have it Swamprat. I could get more detailed, but I am afraid that everyone's eyes are already drooping from my long story.:D You all have a nice day, I know I will. And if I die today, I know I will be happy for eternity.

[Orgnizdlbr]

"Aspersions"? Look that up in the dictionary OGB and notice the 1570 meaning as opposed to todays meaning...If find it humoreous you pulled that our of your arsenal as a boomerang and forgot to duck! Quack! But I digress... A perfect segway... I began to answer your questions but the darn thing locked up as I hit the Post button... Thats why I a lot of times post edit, edit, edit... this lock has happend to me oft enough that I find a way around losing it all... I will try again tomorrow... today I need sleep...

Good Night John Boy...

Why the condesention CP, again casting aspersions, very Christlike of you...cant answer that can ya.....

[n4cer2]

O.K. OGB. First let us tackle the morality of the bible. I have both read and heard that the bible is the best teaching book on morality. I have heard this from both believers and non-believers. I wish I could quote you names, dates and times, but alas, I cannot. I never thought I would need to memorize material like that. poo-poo on me. Leason learned. Next time I will make it a point to write names down. I will also ask around, given a little time I might be able to find something.
Next comment you made, you hinted that I was judging you. I apologize for that. I make it a point not to judge people. You are right about one thing, GOD is the only one to judge us all after the millenium. Since you realize that GOD will judge you, do you ask yourself if you will pass his judgement. If the answer is yes, I am proud of you. If you answer no to that question, then I am sorry and hope you will re-evaluate your life so you can say yes.
Sorry, I would like to keep this letter going, but I have been informed that it is time to go to church. Ya'll have a nice night.

GOD bless all of my fellow line brothers

[Orgnizdlbr]

O.K. OGB. First let us tackle the morality of the bible. I have both read and heard that the bible is the best teaching book on morality. I have heard this from both believers and non-believers. I wish I could quote you names, dates and times, but alas, I cannot. I never thought I would need to memorize material like that. poo-poo on me. Leason learned. Next time I will make it a point to write names down. I will also ask around, given a little time I might be able to find something.
Next comment you made, you hinted that I was judging you. I apologize for that. I make it a point not to judge people. You are right about one thing, GOD is the only one to judge us all after the millenium. Since you realize that GOD will judge you, do you ask yourself if you will pass his judgement. If the answer is yes, I am proud of you. If you answer no to that question, then I am sorry and hope you will re-evaluate your life so you can say yes.
Sorry, I would like to keep this letter going, but I have been informed that it is time to go to church. Ya'll have a nice night.

GOD bless all of my fellow line brothers

Unless you are CP posting as an alter ego, my comment was not intended for you and is a response to CP. Your comment is well taken, and it was done without the judgement and condesention found in other posts. More folks who proseletyze should take the same approach, conversely maybe I shouldnt take so much offense to Mr. CP.

But I'm sure he realises I take the positions that I do in order to "test" him. One thing I respect about Cp is his conviction, it is unwavering and he should be proud of that. It is not easy to stand in town square, or post on the internet, that ones belief in the Lord is formost in ones life, frankly that takes balls, good for him.

But I do enjoy my discourse with him, I have learned things that i didnt know. i hope there are things he has learned from my posts, on other matters he is unwaivering on this, i wish he would inquire about union issues, i know I could teach him somethig there.

[CenterPointEX]

"Aspersions"? Look that up in the dictionary OGB and notice the 1570 meaning as opposed to todays meaning...If find it humoreous you pulled that our of your arsenal as a boomerang and forgot to duck! Quack! But I digress..."Aspersions" the meaning of Aspersions back in the days of King James English OGB is the sprinkeling on of Holy Water... are you suggsting by my comets that I was casting Holy Water at Your CareHeart wanna be? Judging by the heritical postions you take on the tenants of the Christian Faith, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea... Just maybe an exorcism is in order...:cool::cool:

OGB...UMMM... you know I luv ya man... and I do admire yer facil agility wit... the verbal anomalies... a veritable treasure trove...


Group Hug!

[Orgnizdlbr]

[quote=CenterPointEX;28273]"Aspersions" the meaning of Aspersions back in the days of King James English OGB is the sprinkeling on of Holy Water... are you suggsting by my comets that I was casting Holy Water at Your CareHeart wanna be? Judging by the heritical postions you take on the tenants of the Christian Faith, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea... Just maybe an exorcism is in order...:cool::cool:

OGB...UMMM... you know I luv ya man... and I do admire yer facil agility wit... the verbal anomalies... a veritable treasure trove...


You have previously pointed out that I have no knowledge of KJE, so why attempt to apply it here?

Got me pegged....OGB the Heretic!! LMAO!

[Orgnizdlbr]

"Aspersions" the meaning of Aspersions back in the days of King James English OGB is the sprinkeling on of Holy Water... are you suggsting by my comets that I was casting Holy Water at Your CareHeart wanna be? Judging by the heritical postions you take on the tenants of the Christian Faith, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea... Just maybe an exorcism is in order...:cool::cool:

OGB...UMMM... you know I luv ya man... and I do admire yer facil agility wit... the verbal anomalies... a veritable treasure trove...


Group Hug!

Whats with this huggin stuff??? Please, I hope your not wearing Dickies while your speaking of luv and hugs!http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon9.gif

[PA BEN]

Real Men can hug as long as their is NOT a reach around.:eek: :D

[LostArt]

Real Men can hug as long as their is NOT a reach around.:eek: :D

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/laugh002.gif

I had to laugh at that one. I guess I'm watching too much basketball these days! LOL! (BTW....GO GATORS!!!!!)

Georgie, call fowl if he does! hehehehe

[wormy]

Real Men can hug as long as their is NOT a reach around.

I don't know enough about hugging men to comment on that.

Hey lost art. Sure are hearing Donavans name around the state of Kentucky. In the paper every day.

[LostArt]

I don't know enough about hugging men to comment on that.

Hey lost art. Sure are hearing Donavans name around the state of Kentucky. In the paper every day.



Is that the dude, that sang the song, "electric banana", back in the 70's?:cool: :D

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass020.gif


Worm, you guys can't have him, ya hear??????!!!! Can KY actually top pay with Florida? Unless it's with the pros of course (tongue in cheek), I sincerely hope Billy doesn't go that route.

[PA BEN]

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass020.gif


Worm, you guys can't have him, ya hear??????!!!! Can KY actually top pay with Florida? Unless it's with the pros of course (tongue in cheek), I sincerely hope Billy doesn't go that route.

Are you saying to use KY to get better pay?

[LostArt]

Are you saying to use KY to get better pay?

Oh dear heavens!

[wormy]

Ky will throw buckets of money at him

[LostArt]

Ky will throw buckets of money at him

Well now..........after Ben's comment....will he be a whore if he does????? :D

[CenterPointEX]

Originally Posted by Swamprat http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=29548#post29548)
That's exactly what I've been trying to get across to you! Call it "goin to heaven", "Saved", what ever ya want. See, "if" there's a "heaven", and I'm a good person in my life, and try my best to keep the 10 commandments, I've got just as much chance as you of makin it.:cool: At least that's what I believe, like I been tellin ya all along....And No Ben, I know no man can answer that question, True of False. I was just using the same stupid shit of "true or false" that CP has tried to pull on me.:D Yes or No, True or False, Black or white....Life don't work like that.Swamp, some things are black and white...

1+1=2........................... True or False

Swamps parents are in Heaven
if they believed they were sinners in need of salvation
and trusted in Jesus as their only means of salvation....... True


Swamps parents are in Hell if they did not trust
in Jesus as their only means of salvation...................... True


3. Swamps parents believed in Jesus
as their only means of salvation................................... True or False

Swamp no one but God can answer question number three. Not even you Swamp know for sure what was in their heart. The questions I asked were black and white questions.. you refused to answer them for the reasons I posted... either way you answered them it was a constitutional crisis for you.. Swamp, the Bible says no one was, is or will be able to keep the ten commandments in this life... No one will be forced to. The Bible says the penalty for breaking the Ten Commandments is death... Jesus paid that penalty for you Swamp. If you, your parents, or anyone else accepts that, then they are gong to Heaven... If not then they are going to Hell... no second chances... If you reject His plan of salvation,.... if you don't want it...then he don't want you there... Swamp, God loves you... He sent his Son to die for you... But he will not force you to accept that. You have the choice to reject HIm...

[CenterPointEX]

1+1=2 ... You can't argue with that one Swamp... It's black and white... True or False.

[CenterPointEX]

Atheism, Agnosticism, Huanism, and Evolutionism... are indeed religions. They are belief systems that people devote themselves to... Systems that can only be believed by Faith.

[CenterPointEX]

Good... now we are getting somewhere Swamp... You do have a religion according to your concurrance with the foregoing definition of religion... You believe your religion by faith... You Swamp... do have faith... Your FAITH and Religion is in Agnosticism... ungrounded as it may be.

Agnosticism is an organized religion... They have churches called by the names of various Universitys... They have fanatical followers, like yourself who defend Agnosticism to the death...

Though I can give evidence and reason to defend my Faith... You have zero count em zero Points of evidence or reason to defend yours.

[neil macgregor]

over developed monkey,s floating about on a big rock in space



get over it!

[Edge]

G L W T


Edge

Life's to short to not hook it!

[CenterPointEX]

My man....How many times we gotta go thru this......I'm Agnostic. I don't believe in "organized religions".
Faith? No, I guess I don't have "faith" as you describe it.

All I have is "questions", which no Organized Religion has ever been able to rectify "logically" for me.

And No...I won't ask those questions again. We been down this road many times before my friend. Did you ask those questions here on this board?... if so what thread were they in? This one?

Why would a man with questions not keep asking them til he got answers?

You Swamp do seem to have faith that Jesus did not live as a man, die as a man, and rise from the dead... You do seem to have faith that the events of the Bible did not take place as they are recorded in 66 books by a pacal of authors over several thousand years...

At the beginning of this thread you proclaimed faith in something called the "Universal Mind"? Your faith was based on the ramblings of one troubled soul who like yourself had many questions.

This is how Huxley answered the question of God!

"I had motives for not wanting the world to have a god or meaning; consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do, or why his friends should not seize political power and govern in the way that they find most advantageous to themselves .... For myself, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation, sexual and political."

From what you have said Swamp, you currently have faith in Huxleys take on why you exist... this is why you are here?

This "Philosophy of Meaninglessness" championed by Huxley... is paraded around like a flag and drum corp by Agnositcs like yourself, and by Atheists like BigClive. Agnotics and Atheists can do no other...

[johnbellamy]

I am a sinner, I drink, gamble, enjoy sins of the flesh, am prideful, have problems turnin the other cheek, have a bad temper, I am not a good example of what people would think a "christan" should be, so pray for me.

I do not like the term "religion". I believe that Jesus is "my personal savior", I believe he loves me and everybody else.

All he has asked for is people to accept him as thier personal savior, confess with thier own mouth, and be baptized to enter heaven.

Knowing the Bible is good, but there are so many different "religions" out there because people through thier own motives and agendas use certain scriptures to fit there needs, change with the times, to fit the needs of thier followers, that does not make sense to me.

Through the years and even now "Religion" has been used to control and manipulate people for there own political or financal gains. This is not the message I get from The Bible.

God made man in his own image, and he also gave us free will, the right to accept him or reject him, It is our chose, If you think you can change somebodies sinical views on not "Religion" but the "Word of God" by giving wikipedia definitions, well you are missing the picture to. You can't sell "Jesus", all you can do is offer the invitation that Jesus offer's all of us, accept him or reject him, It is a personal relationship I have with Jesus, because thats what he offers.

Sinics out there want proof, They crucified Jesus when he walked this earth as a man, when he preformed miracles, Man wanted things his way, just like today, It is all about faith either you got it or you don't.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=8cf08faca5dd9ea45513

[CHICAGO HAND.]

No Point, Just Makes Me Grateful.