improper use?

[jimmyjames]

I was wondering if anyone has seen this? The contractor I work for uses the upper portion of the boom, on our bucket, to hold conductors up out of the way when stringing a road crossing. This seems to be inappropriate and possibly dangous? Can the aluminum left on the boom cause tracking, and could the rubbing of the conductor across the boom weaken the fiberglass? Our forman seems to think it is OK and the journyman doesn't seem too be concerned. What would be the proper way to string a road crossing if this is not correct?

[dbrown20]

Ordinary use of a bucket will result in aluminum being rubbed all over the boom. Booms are supposed to be tested and cleaned on a regular basis.

I think you are starting to get a bit overly cautious here and you probably ought to think about backing off a little bit. I don't know exactly how to put it but you are starting to be a touch wormy. Don't get your feelings hurt, however, just try to learn as much as you can and realize that a lot of safety rules etc. are pushed to the limit. It would take a lot of aluminum on the boom to make it really track. Just remember that you have a lot to learn and perhaps that will put it in good perspective. I'm sure some of the other people will have a better way of explaining it than me.

Well Jimmy, you got some good input here from the other people. I agree it is a poor way to do wire stringing. There are many variables in such a situation, how big a road, 4 lane or busy highway, wire size, single phase or 3 phase etc. From what you have said so far I would endeavor to get on another crew, maybe.

Get a copy of this contractors safety rules and read through them carefully also. Hang in. dbrown20

[jimmyjames]

No offence taken. Other apprentices, as well as my self, share these same concerns. After asking our crew members, and getting the standard answer "Just the way it is" I thought I would ask my peers and others who have been in the buisness for awhile. Just trying to find the right path.

[Hemingray Insulators]

now i'll be the first to say i don't know about that, i'm only a junior in HS that wants to be a lineman, but i must say great job for questioning the procedure whether its ok or not. it shows me you put saftey first asking about it. I'm proud of ya. because it seems nowdays not many apprentices either 1. know if something safe or not or 2. care about it, that is why you see so many young guys getting hurt nowdays.
just wanted you to know.

[Bull Dog]

If you ask me its a dumb ass way to pull wire over the road. Ive seen it all though. It sounds like the easyway to get road clearance not the way i would do it that is for dam shure. Yes it is hard on the boom. Ive seen al coductor cut a x arm in half beacuse the crew didnt have shives. The wire got stuck in a grove and riped the arm off the pole. Then a automatic sleve seperated and the wire fell across a busy highway. They were lucky cause it fell between vehicles. I say they cause i was only a 1st step didnt know much. They yelled at me though cause it was my fault. What there doing dosent sound dangerous I will agree with them that far but not smart. Keep questioning when you think something is not right. I know for shure there is a better way and i dont think it would take longer, take it from someone whos pulled a lot of wire.

[graybeard]

Bad idea to do it that way when you have to depend on that bucket and boom for HOT work. You can put a dolly in the wench line off the digger, or rig one off the bucket if need be. Or you can take alittle more time and set a guard pole. The last thing I would do is let it rub across the bucket or boom while stringing. I know being an app. can make bringing up a differnt (better) way hard to do. Sounds like your thinking though and thats good. Like they say more than one way to skin a cat.

[jimmyjames]

Thanks for your input and ideas, points well taken.

Greybeard I noticed in your personal info you like Harleys. What do you ride? I've got an '81 FLH first year of year of the Heritage befor it went to the softail chasis.

[damn_encode]

Every company is different, one contractor I worked for wouldn’t pull a road or across a hot line until we had installed guard structures and p-lines. These temporary structures were left up until the wire had been sagged & deadended. Then they were taken down. The company I am with now does a lot of work using the bucket to keep conductor suspended in the air, and uses it to hoist wire into the air after pulling it out on the ground from deadend to deadend (we dont pull hardline). We would always use travelers and pull hardline with the previous company and with this one rarely do we use travelers on tangent structures. Only on road crossings or over hot phases where they don’t want to take a chance of the wire getting out of control. They would rather have the conductor slide through the glass even when bringing it up to sag. Granted the previous company was a transmission line contractor, it still seems that same job was accomplished easier & cleaner even though it took more preparation.

That’s the great thing about being an apprentice. You learn all these different ways of doing things and when you Journey out you can decide then how you want it done.

[jimmyjames]

I haven't heard the term "hardline" used, what does that mean?

[damn_encode]

We had wire rope that came off the drum puller instead of Sampson rope. So they called it hard-line. It was a massive 4-drum puller that was mounted on a 6-axle truck. I think the operator told me it was purchased new in 72 and they he had been the primarily operator running it the entire time. Day after day , pull hard-line out....pull hard-line back....Setup and go to the next dead-end or splice. But he seemed to really enjoy running that noisy machine.

[old lineman]

Bucket trucks used as barrier poles has been going on for decades. It's been done on numerous jobs that I have been on, and no one raised concerns.
On the other hand I've never seen the conductor ride the boom, to me if this happens the boom isn't positioned properly.
What we used to do is use a distribution X-arm and install long bolts on both ends to ensure that the conductor couldn't ride over the ends.
The x-arm was secured across the buckets and the boom was elevated and rotated until the x-arm was perpendicular to the conductor being strung. That way should the belly of the conductor come down low enough to slide across the wood no damage would be done.
The elevation of the boom was adjusted so that while the conductor was being pulled in (just under final sag) there would be a couple of feet of clearance above the x-arm.
I to don't like the fact that the boom is being used to replace a traveller and contact is being made. The gel coat finish has to be maintained in like new condition or else current leakage will be the eventual problem.
Fiberglass repairs are costly x-arms are cheap. It just makes economic sense.
Some have mentioned using a digger derrick with a traveller supported by the winch. That's OK but this means more set up time and more trucks. A bucket truck will be required to remove the traveller and for sure the boom may have to be moved for sagging so that there is no deflection. An aerial device used in the aforementioned manner will not cause deflection and will not tie up two trucks at once and not require a lineman to go aloft. Lots of benefits it seems.

As for the problem Bull Dog talked about with the separation of an automatic sleeve.
Conductors should NEVER have automatic sleeves in them when being strung (either in or out) the sleeves should always have been removed first.
Never move conductors with automatic sleeves in them.
Automatic sleeves only work well when pulled straight, evenly and under constant tension. An automatic sleeve passing through a traveller will have side pull applied. The center portion of the automatic sleeve will buckle and the fingers holding the condutor inside of the sleeve will release and the conductor will fall. If you don't believe me write an e-mail to the comany who manufacturers them and ask this question. The asnswer will be an eye openner. No, No, no they'll say.
Place two Kellam grips back to back once the automatic sleeve has been removed and secure the grips preferably with a conductor stringing band-it tool before pulling. Taping the ends is somewhat OK.
The Old Lineman

[graybeard]

JJ
I ride a 02 FLHSTCI had a 883 before that and before that some yamys. I got the bike so in 20 mins stripped to a single seat. When I do that people think I got a FATBOY. Kind of off subject with the bike talk.
You gota love this web site though because you can get all these different ideas on line work without being able to work with other people. Someone allready said it here but learn all you can for as many people as you can and apply those ideas. Some things may work for you and others may not. I think the best lineman are always learning and looking for a better and SAFER way to do the work. WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER

[tramp67]

I agree with Old Lineman, I have used the boom of a bucket truck many times with a crossarm attached to deflect the belly of the conductor if it should become too low while stringing. I have also used crossarms securely lashed to the pole claws on a digger boom on distribution jobs and when pulling ropes and hardline on transmission jobs. In the contractor world, time is money, and many times you use the equipment for purposes other than what they are intended for. You may be subjecting the equipment to more wear and abuse than what it is designed for, but most contractors would rather have the equipment being used and maintenance costs increase slightly than buying more equipment, having the extra time spent on elaborate setups, etc., if stretching the intended purpose of the equipment will lower their overall costs and increase their profits.
So, Jimmyjames, keep paying attention like you are, and keep in mind that this isn't rocket science, but there are lots of tricks and shortcuts that are in common use. Just make sure that you don't take shortcuts that lead to unsafe conditions. There's lots to learn out there, I am learning every day, and most people here will agree that you will never stop learning in this trade. Using just the bucket truck boom without a crossarm will, sooner or later, cause serious and expensive damage. It doesn't take long for a conductor to cut into the fiberglass if it is riding on it, and there will be hell to pay from management if that happens. Like Old Lineman said, a crossarm attached to the boom will protect it, and will work just fine. Don't be afraid to ask questions, just try to ask in a non-argumentive way on the job and most linemen will take the time to answer your concerns, and may agree with you as well!

[jimmyjames]

It sounds like this is not an uncommon practice and is not a serious safety issue. So the the thing to watch for if using this method would be damage to the fiberglass boom, which can be avoided by using a cross arm to protect it form rubbing. I'm gathering that it would take a significant amount of aluminum on the boom to cause concerns of tracking?
Are contractors required to test there booms or live line equipment?

[shaun]

Buckets aren't designed for pullin conductors over it. I wouldn't trust the cheapy made pin holdin our buckets up. Our buckets say 300lbs cap. Combine that with us, tools, and the weight of the wire, I'd say no thanks. Is it done? Yeah. Is it correct? no way. Put it this way, if something happens during that pull, and you're involved, who's at fault? Don't let the job tease ya. Good on ya for the questions. Let face it fellas, they are putting the rules in black and white and we should follow them to the tee! Do your drift checks, put out a sign, cone it off, follow their rules. Hell, they can't hurt us and their right.

[dbrown20]

It's easy to hang a single dolly from the jib line if the bucket has a jib. You can rig a p rope on the trip latch of the dolly if the dolly is made that way. After the wire is pulled up to pre-sag tension just pull the p rope on the trip latch of the dolly and you can operate the ground controls of the bucket and bring it down and put another p rope in the dolly and position it using the ground controls for another wire. Don't have to rub any wire across the boom etc. Pretty easy. dbrown20

[old lineman]

It's easy to hang a single dolly from the jib line if the bucket has a jib. You can rig a p rope on the trip latch of the dolly if the dolly is made that way. After the wire is pulled up to pre-sag tension just pull the p rope on the trip latch of the dolly and you can operate the ground controls of the bucket and bring it down and put another p rope in the dolly and position it using the ground controls for another wire. Don't have to rub any wire across the boom etc. Pretty easy. dbrown20

Bingo! Thats right Mr. Brown.
As for the other comment about using an aerial device solely for raising and lowering workers.
Thats a good plan Stan, but people being people and looking for a better mouse trap will do this. We're just trying to provide information that would come into the picture when the discussion arises.
in reality there wouldn't be any more stress on a boom doing the x-arm trick than raising the boom in the middle of a field and folding it again.
The conductor seldom touches the x-arm and if it does it only will gently rest on it to the tune of perhaps 100 lbs. No side tension
We had to subject our booms to annual testing, unless they were used for 'bare handing' then they had to be testing every 6 months and had to be tested for current leakage immediately prior to bonding on.
For the USA I would check with ASTM (American Standards for Testing Materials) or IEEE.
The Old Lineman

[Bull Dog]

The automatic sleves are used were i work all the time when pulling wire but i think it is not the best pratice i agree. The one i seen seperate in many years was beacuse the forman didnt trim the end of the wire before he shoved it in to the sleve. The extra tension of the wire stuck in the grove cut into a wood arm was too much for a bad installed sleve. The end of the wire was at a angle and strands spread out. Lots of other ways to do it as you can see. All are good except rubbing the fiberglass that is not good. I had the cutters in my hand but he wouldnt use them said give me that your slowing us down. Like i said i was a low apprentice and the forman seemed like god back then. Good luck to you and really appreciate all the ideas out there fellas.

[rusty]

JimmyJames,

Brother I would be curious as to what your safety rep and your company policies say about it? We have all did it at one time or another, the question is the amount of time of contact, weight, and necessity? But I can guarantee you if you have a boom failure later on and the company or manufacture can prove the equipment was wrongfully used, it will be found to be an EMPLOYEE ERROR IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF "" KNOWN AND SIGNED OFF ON BY YOU " COMPANY SAFETY AND EQUIPMENT CARE AND USE POLICIES! Both the company and manufacture will deny any liability, even if it is a "" KNOWN "" everyday practice in the field! If our Brothers and their loved ones left behind can be denied fair treatment due to company policies, WE DAMN well have the right to demand they follow these very same policies as to time and production expectation, if they " KNOW AND WILL use them to escape liability and accountability!!!

Your on the right track, when in doubt ask questions, and if you ever feel it is a life threatening issue DON‘T DO IT!! But in today’s world I would advise EVERY BROTHER working in this trade FOR NO MATTER HOW LONG to keep a daily journal with the dates times and names when these kinds of issues are addressed. Companies today will sacrifice a foreman and crew members in the blink of an eye to avoid accountability, FACT! IT IS A MUST to take their companies safety and ALL their policies seriously! Because if you don’t THEY WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU, AND/OR YOUR LOVED ONES LEFT BEHIND!!! FACT!!! We have MORE THAN enough history proving this very fact!!!

[dbrown20]

A daily journal or diary is very handy for refreshing your memory but it will not hold up in court, I do not believe. If it is only your diary, all they have to do is deny your allegations and then it is just your word against theirs. This is my opinion after having a union grievance once and it was similar circumstances.

It is my understanding that if you can have a fellow worker sign or initial this diary ever day, then you have a valid instrument that will have some stroke in court. When I say court I am really referring to a union arbitration. A little bit of a similar thing. Check with a labor attorney on this matter, and he will probably give you some pointers. dbrown20

[old lineman]

A daily journal or diary is very handy for refreshing your memory but it will not hold up in court, I do not believe. If it is only your diary, all they have to do is deny your allegations and then it is just your word against theirs. This is my opinion after having a union grievance once and it was similar circumstances.

It is my understanding that if you can have a fellow worker sign or initial this diary ever day, then you have a valid instrument that will have some stroke in court. When I say court I am really referring to a union arbitration. A little bit of a similar thing. Check with a labor attorney on this matter, and he will probably give you some pointers. dbrown20

I am not sure where a daily journal stands in a US court but I do know that it holds lots of credence in our courts. There are certain disqualifiers though.
A daily journal that will hold up in court must be;
A bound book.
Numbered pages.
Detailed and daily entries.
You can't just start and stop entries at a whim. It's and excellent habit for a supervisor to develop.
I always said it should be an open book. If someone asks to see what was written about them they should be allowed to read it.
It's not for others to read about their co-workers.
The entries should be mostly positive. When workers do everything as expected the entry should reflect that.
In the end all your looking for is a record of the events that capture what happened for recall later.
It should be purchased by the employer and kept in a secure location for further reference once it is filled or at the end of the year. Most often the use is for issues between the utility and the customer. Like property damage and so on.
The Old Lineman

[boogerman]

You mentioned daily journals, our tailboard conferences must now be writen documents on the company form. No more just talking it over, it must include all persons on the job and details of the work to be done, weather it is a normal new construction job or trouble outage and for each job. This is all about what will hold up in court. Even though it may be a kangeroo court. CYA fellas.

[old lineman]

You mentioned daily journals, our tailboard conferences must now be writen documents on the company form. No more just talking it over, it must include all persons on the job and details of the work to be done, weather it is a normal new construction job or trouble outage and for each job. This is all about what will hold up in court. Even though it may be a kangeroo court. CYA fellas.

To some this is nonsense but progreesive companies are headed this way.
Lots of tailboard talk sheets ask that the hazards be listed so that they can be discussed and the safety barriers that will be used to address them can be shown.
It is a CYA intitative but it also can be used for a defense if your ever called to task.
The Old Lineman

[rusty]

dbrown,

Brother being the assistant B.A. for my local for 5 years I to am a little familiar with some on the inner workings. And having access to over 2000 lawyers and law firms across this nation , have some contacts there as well. The journal is governed by deference’s in each state laws all across this nation. But the norm is, how long one has been keeping one, the ability to collaborate the information in it, many times it carries a lot of weight if your trying to prove reasonable doubt. At the very least in a have to situation the one who is keeping the journal will know those who might lie or those who he believes will stand for right and wrong. As well as provide his loved ones more information THAN THEY WILL GET FROM ANYBODY! I'm no attorney, but if any of you guys have a memory like mine, I got to write down how to get home at night!:) Now the little lady doesn't buy my excuse many times if I forgot, but it beats no defense at all! :) :)

More and more as seen in many of these post, documentation is the key. And is there “” ANYONE “” on here that believes it has not or will not be used against a Brother to avoid accountability or liability??? Sadly there is a recorded history of this fact!!! That is why in today’s world each and every Brother should take EVERY document they sign as to policy and training VERY SERIOUS! And that is why I am an advocate for holding the companies and utilities responsible for violating their own policies, and then turning around and trying to use them as reasons to deny accountability or liability! If it is good enough to deny your loved ones left behind any fairness, then it is good enough to hold them to it EVERYDAY! How can any company legally or morally have a problem with those who demand they follow their own policies?? If they have a problem with being held to their OWN WRITTEN GUIDELINES , or willfully violate it when it benefits their agendas or productions schedules, then their policies are fabrication with one goal in mind! And the odds of them accepting accountability or liability is BS! Either all or nothing!!! If it is good enough for them to use against us, they can damn well be held to it!

[dbrown20]

Rusty,

All I'm saying is that in my case I kept an informal diary in a situation once.

In my arbitration I consulted my diary to argue that on a certain time and date a certain thing happened. The opposing witnesses simplied lied and denied knowing anything pertaining to what I said. That is it in a nutshell. So my conclusion was that if a person keeps a diary in order to prove something then he had best have a fellow worker who will verify what he says is the truth.

I would expect the best thing for Jimmy to do is consult with a labor attorney in his home state of Montana and find out what he should do if he contemplates such a thing. dbrown20

[linemanfrog]

It is unsafe to use the boom of a bucket to support an "unknown" load. Lets face it, this situation is repeated almost daily across the trade. "We have done it for years and years." Well that is just bullshit. Linemen of the past also wore felt hats for years and years. Wooden hotsticks were used for years and years.

My point is that just because something has been done numerous times does not make it the correct way to perform the work. Allowing a conductor to slide across a fiberglass boom during a pulling operation is WRONG. There are much better ways to perform this action. You can use a chain hoist on energized primary if you were stupid enough but just because it can be done should not mean you should do it. When allowing a conductor to slide across the boom you take the risk of weaking both the structural and dielectric strength of the boom. Broken gel coat can allow moisture intrusion into the fiberglass.

The habit of taking shortcuts while doing inconsequential jobs will breed the habit of taking shortcuts that could harm you life or the life of another. The boom on your bucket truck should be treated with the same care and respect that you treat your rubber gloves with.

[skylifter]

There are a lot of ways that people will do a job because they "...have been doing it that way for years", but that doesn't mean it is the best or only way to get 'r done.
Nothing should be allowed to contact the booms of an aerial lift, and double that for the insulated portion.
Very small imperfections in the surface of the fiberglass will increase the surface area and increase the risk of water infiltration, surface tracking and possible flashover. There is a reason that the boom manufacturer puts a "mirror' finish on the 'glass in the first place.
Guard poles or a crane suspending a running block to hold the conductor are the preferred methods to protect a road crossing.