Think what ya want about...Americas direction [Archive]

Dave@PSE&G

02-20-2007, 11:11 AM

Thats great swampshit BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ONES bush IS DONE WITH???????????? HERE IS ONE FUCKING FINE EXAMPLE OF SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE DAY ONE. SO FUCK YOU bush and republican LOVERS

Army Fixing Patients' Housing
Changes Underway At Walter Reed

By Dana Priest and Anne Hull
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, February 20, 2007; A01

Walter Reed Army Medical Center began repairs yesterday on Building 18, a former hotel that is used to house outpatients recuperating from injuries suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan and that has been plagued with mold, leaky plumbing and a broken elevator.

The facility's commander, Maj. Gen. George W. Weightman, said Army staff members inspected each of the 54 rooms at the building and discovered that outstanding repair orders for half the rooms had not been completed. He said that mold removal had begun on several rooms and that holes in ceilings, stained carpets and leaking faucets were being fixed.

Walter Reed, the Army's premier medical facility, has turned into a holding ground for wounded soldiers during 5 1/2 years of sustained combat. Almost 700 outpatients suffering from physical injuries and psychological problems live on the 113-acre military post or in nearby quarters. Many linger there for 18 months or longer as they move through the Army's numbing bureaucracy.

A Washington Post series over the weekend described "The Other Walter Reed," where overdoses, suicide attempts and depression among outpatients are the parallel narrative to the spit-polish hallways of the renowned hospital.

Building 18, in particular, symbolizes the indifference and neglect that many of the wounded say they experience at Walter Reed.

Yesterday, Weightman said a broken elevator in the building had been repaired and soldiers were working to improve the outside of the building, including removing ice and snow. The slippery conditions have kept some soldiers in their rooms. A garage door that has been broken for months will soon be repaired as well.

Spec. Jeremy Duncan, whose room has a moldy wall that was featured in one photograph in the Post series, has been moved to another room while workers make repairs. Duncan will be able to return to his room when the work is completed, Weightman said.

Walter Reed and Army officials have been "meeting continuously for three days" since the articles began appearing, Weightman said. A large roundtable meeting with Army and Defense Department officials will take place at the Pentagon early this morning to continue talks about improvements in the outpatient system, he added.

Weightman said the medical center has received an outpouring of concern about conditions and procedures since the articles appeared and has taken steps to improve what soldiers and their families describe as a messy battlefield of bureaucratic problems and mistreatment.

"We're starting to attack how we'll fix and mitigate" some of the problems, he said.

Social workers will now be stationed around the clock at Mologne House, the 200-room hotel on the post where many of the outpatients live. Plans are being developed to better train other staff members who deal with outpatient needs.

The Army will also consider moving some outpatients to its other medical centers throughout the United States and will determine over the next weeks whether more workers are needed at Walter Reed.

Battman,
What are you getting in a huff about? You're shocked that govenment run facilities are falling apart? You're surprised by that revelation? C'mon, you're just taking an open shot at your favorite president and you know it.
Since we're taking open shots, maybe you'd like to read about the dems that you hold in such high regard. http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/englishvote.asp
It's not necessarily new, but disgraceful just the same.

Yager

02-20-2007, 04:47 PM

Very cool stuff swamp,definetly gave me a moment.

Orgnizdlbr

02-20-2007, 04:54 PM

Steve,

While I can comiserate on certain issues you raise, and that happens to be many BTW, and I agree that the treatment of wounded veterans at Walter Reed and other hospitals is terrible, I am an American and I cannot condone violence as it pertains to your rant about Bush.

We live in the greatest democracy in the world. In a democracy the way we get rid of those in office is to vote them out. We dont condone any other means than the polling booth or impeachment.

The fact is, Steve, that the people spoke in 2000, and again in 2004. For the people who did not vote for the current President, the answer is to vote, as we did, in the mid-term, and vote again in 2008. Thats America Steve, its the way we do things

OLE' SORE KNEES

02-20-2007, 06:20 PM

That is the real deal,weither you agree or not ,politics will always be politics,previous post whom I won't mention ...will be a cancer among themselves that will eat up thier own eternity, always right or wrong ...support your troops...........this is why AMERICA LIVES !!!

Dave@PSE&G

02-20-2007, 09:49 PM

Did you even read the snopes answer, or just post it. The second amendment was voted and passed making English the language of choice and to unifies America. No Democrat voted against this amendment. According to you you have no right to speak another language.
for those 21,000 is already ballooned to 35,000 and 10 billion more dollars.

Battman,
My apologies. I thought that link referred to the Dems knocking down a bill making it unlawful for illegals to collect social security. Screw it, I was just stirring the pot anyway. I do find it shameful that a hospital is in such disrepair, but I'm sure that there are many others at fault here, not necessarily Bush himself.

LostArt

02-22-2007, 06:09 AM

Once again, I say most graciously...Fuck you.

*ahem* Can you actually say that graciously? Really??

topgroove

02-22-2007, 12:26 PM

do the Iraqi people even deserve a democracy. the country is so filled with religious fanatics and blood thirsty thugs the average citizen dosen't stand a chance. Insurgents are streaming accross the boarder supplied with a unlimited source of funding and resources. If that was'nt bad enough you have the Kurds, Turds, and Nerds fighting amongst themselves. The only thing they can aggree on is to kill americans. Why do we have to pay for there freedom in American blood. I can't see the Iraqi people growing some balls and fighting for there freedom anytime soon.

Dave@PSE&G

02-25-2007, 11:26 PM

Iraq For Sale: The War Profiteers

http://iraqforsale.org/

Well, you can't help but take it seriously when you see that it has been endorsed by the LA Times, and the New York Times. Who produced it? Michael Moore?
I'm sure that a lot of people did make money from supplying this effort. What'd ya think happened to the $300 Trillion, or whatever the amount is. That's a waste of money that could have been used for government cheese, needle exchanges, and social programs to educate the poor huddled masses about the downfall of having 5 or 6 children. BUSH KEPT IT ALL!!! BUSH KEPT IT ALL!! BUSH KEPT IT ALL!! BUSH KEPT IT ALL!! Give it a rest already. Bush is not trying to screw America, Steve. They're ALL trying to screw America.

Dave@PSE&G

02-26-2007, 01:03 PM

YOU FUCKING MORON BUSH HAS FUCKED AMERICA FOR YEARS TO COME . I WILL NEVER GIVE UP ON PROTECTING THE AMERICA MY DAD LEFT ME.

THATS 400 BILLION MORON

POOR HUDDLED MASSES?????????? HOW ABOUT EVERY DAY WORKING MASSES. HOW ABOUT HILLBILLY ARMOUR FOR OUR TROOPS?????????

FUCK YOU CLOWN

I don't know, Battman. I'm not feeling the love...:D

Dave@PSE&G

02-26-2007, 06:13 PM

SAME AS SWAMPSHIT

THIS WILL BE ASK FROM NOW ON COCKSUCKER. SHOW ME ONE THING YOU HAVE DONE FOR THE TROOPS OR THE WOUNDED.

ONE GODDAMNED THING
Hey Battman,
You mean other than pay my taxes? You mean other than donating cash and goods to be sent over to Iraq in "care packages? What else can I do?
Swamp makes a good point. What is your "view" on how America should handle its affairs abroad? I've been reading and posting here for almost 2 years. All I ever see from you are posts about how fucked up everyone else is. Typical fucking democrat. You have no problem pointing a finger, but can't put that same finger on the solution to a problem. Now it's my turn, you ignorant old fuck. Tell us your plan, cocksucker. Try to come up with one coherent thought, and type it. And while we're on the subject of typing, dipshit, use the fucking spellcheck button. It's up top of the page, a check mark. Just like the one on your mental health report in the box next to "schizophrenic". I can't believe how much of an asshole you are!!:mad:

Wow!! That felt great!! My apologies to the rest of you who had to read the profanity, but the old coot had that coming.:o

Dave@PSE&G

02-26-2007, 09:35 PM

Here's a link for all the tree-hugging Al Gore fans. He did win an oscar, so this is relevent.:cool:

http://stoptheaclu.com/

Dave@PSE&G

02-26-2007, 09:41 PM

This one is worth aread, also...
http://stoptheaclu.com/archives/2005/11/10/top-ten-reasons-to-stop-the-aclu/

Dave@PSE&G

02-27-2007, 11:00 AM

Yeah I have a solution . It's called impeachment and criminal charges against bush and company. There is terrorist behind every tree now, because he failed to listen to Saudi Arabia. They told him he was opening a can of worms. His on pardner.

OH I PAID MY TAX'S BOO-HOO

How about going to the VA Hospitals Donating needed items to the wounded or just visiting MORON

How about getting involved in the VFW ans American Legion Drives for our troops.

All you motorcycle profiling around a booze hut could join the American Legion Riders and Patriot Guard and stand watch at the funerals. About 300 riders usually show up.

Have you been to a VA hospital???

Have you joined the VFW or American Legion in any way???

Let me see some support for th troops before you run your mouth.
Contact me through PM and I will give you dozens of places that the troops need your help.

Care packages??? Bullshit. Find out from a returning vet what they need, not phone card, not DVDs

Well, the BEST think I did for our troops was to vote Republican. I can't imagine how our troops feel, out in the desert, when they read about the Dems and how they want to screw with the battle plan. I would think the most dangerous ingredient in a military operation is indecisiveness.
The care packages that I contribute to regularly are put together by a co-worker, who has a son fighting in Iraq. So please don't try to tell me I don't know what our troops can use. My friend tells me what his son and buddies are asking for, and I go out and get exactly what is requested. Primarily, it's gum, razors, chapstick, toiletries, etc. And it's not only me, either. When I don't have time to run out and get stuff (I'm not retired), I simply give cash and my friend handles it.
I haven't been in a VA hospital since '98, when my grandfather was alive. I'm not sure how going to one now will change things for the better in Iraq, and nothing I say to a soldier who lost a leg will make him feel better about his situation. I can just picture the cheer you'd bring to a group of injured soldiers. Telling them how fucked they are and Bush bashing til the wee hours. Yeah, that'll help.
I don't ride, so that's a non-issue.
On both Veteran's Day and Memorial Day, I drag my son out (usually kicking and screaming) to services @ the local VFW hall. I'm not a veteran, I was never in the military, so my sole purpose is to show my support and gratitude the only way I really can, and to educate my son, the next generation, to do the same. My grandfather was a WWII navy vet, a member of the VFW, and if memory serves, the American Legion. When I was young, he took me to events @ the VFW, and I learned from that. Hopefully, my son will learn the same lessons.
Batts, not everyone has all the free time that you apparently have. However, you aren't the only one concerned about the shape the world is in. My son and his generation will be here long after we're gone. I worry about the mess they'll inherit. Unfortunately, the only language that extremists understand is a punch in the mouth. Unless we can get our Arab "allies" to start policing their shitty neighborhoods, we will just have to contiue punching these nuts in the mouth. it would be a lot more effective if America showed a united front (you know, like United States). As long as our enemies see the in-fighting and the Government's indecisivenessbecause of it, they will be encouraged to push the envelop. So continue to lead the Dem charge. Continue the dissention and calamity. You are doing your country a great service. I assume you are a vet. When you were in combat, what was your attitude; "win this fucking thing already" or was it "I don't know if we should be doing this"?

Dave@PSE&G

02-27-2007, 06:42 PM

Hey Steve, I don't recall ever criticizing you for anything other than your intolerant attitude. I read about the Patriot Riders, and it seems like they do terrific things. Kudos to you for helping those in need. You may be surprised to hear that there is a world outside of Edna, Ks. And if you believe it or not, there are other people helping out in their own way. Maybe you should back off the criticism of others when you have no idea what others do.

Dave@PSE&G

03-02-2007, 09:10 AM

I wonder how your attitude would have gone over in WWII.
He probably would have been fragged by his own troops. In Dem-speak, it's called "killed by friendly fire".

I'm still waiting for you "Democrats" solution to "Protecting America from terriorism." Bring everybody back home? And sit and wait? Want to pull our boys out of Afganistan, and South Korea too?
Don't forget the part about sticking our heads in the sand so all tha bad guys will leave us alone. As long as we do whatever they want, they won't bother us.

What's the democrat "Plan" Steve?
Well...?

Pull our boys out Stevie?, The democrat "Plan"... Bring em all home? Cool.
That can't be the plan. That's running away from a problem. Democrats don't...run........away...............do they?:(

Bring your Kansas Man/Woman Home. Kansas is only one state.
Hell, bring them all home. BUT, not until you finish what you went in to do. Do I like war? Nope. Do I want people to die? Nope. What do I want? I want to look at the New York skyline and not see a mushroom cloud over Manhattan. I want my son to drink un-tainted water. I'd like to see the Great Pyramid before I die, but travel to the middle east is treacherous, at best. I want to never read about a bus full of school kids getting blown to bits. I want this bullshit to stop. Running away from the problem WILL NOT MAKE IT GO AWAY, STEVE!! You may be right that Bush is a fuck-up, but at least he's got a plan. Unpopular? Sure it is, in some circles. C'mon, what'd ya think was going to happen? He'd say stop and they would? I already know what your obscenity laced response will be. "That coksuckr moroon didnt hav 2 go to Irak". Don't think so, huh? You think we could chase Bin Laden through the middle east, and they wouldn't help him and interfere with our efforts? Wake up. The world is not stuck in 1948 where we call the shots. When terrorists see on the internet and CNN how divided we've become on this subject of "staying the course", they must think that we're ready to topple and they push harder. If you don't get that, well I guess you're a lost cause. Do you understand why every conflict since Vietnam has been unpopular here in the US? Because the media has brought it into our living rooms. War is ugly. People die. Most people don't have the stomach for the harsh realities of war. What do you think the reaction would have been in the US during WWII if on prime time TV there was a clip of a guy using a flame thrower to burn a bunch of japanese soldiers alive? Did it really happen? You bet it did. And I would be willing to bet other more atrocious shit went on, too. The people of this country have to realize 2 things; A radical extremist enemy doesn't negotiate. It only understands violence. That is "our" ememy's language. The other thing is that in war, people will be injured and/or killed. It is the cost of freedom. Not freedom in the sense that we were invaded. Freedom in the sense that our children will live and prosper. Much like it has been done for the last 200+ years. Our way of life will go on.
Believe it or not Steve, I honestly believe that the Bush administration would like nothing more than to end this mess. It's not a video game that can just be turned off. Maybe if the liberals in this country would stand behind the President to support him, not stab him, we could get this thing done quicker. I don't know...

"Ride stevie ride..."

"little beaver"

03-02-2007, 10:03 AM

Orgnizdlbr

03-02-2007, 10:23 AM

"Ya just don't get it man. You're just so filled with HATE for The President, you have no clue what the "World situation" is, and how America must be protected, and what's Really at stake here, do ya."

It's the HATE that wrecks what Battsies got to say. If he presented his opinion logically it would have some credibility. As it is, it denotes some sort of chemical or mental instability. There is something a little wacko there.

Wacko, maybe...how about passionate. We all dont possess the ability to articulate what our passions are with the same eloquence. steve is very passionate about Iraq, more Americans should be as passionate about Iraq.

It isnt only democrats who are questioning the prosecution of the war. There are republicans who have the same opinions now. Some will argue that republicans questioning the war's prosecution is politically expedient, that may be so, but many hard questions need to be asked, and answered, that has to start at the top with the president, Cheney, and Rummy. C'mon fellas, why do you think Colin Powell resigned....maybe the setup they sent him to at the UN? Face it, lies were told to get us into this war, nothing more. Now we're playing cop in Bagdad and our troops are not even getting the supplies they need, as well as the proper armaments they should have. We are pissing Billions away and the troops are ill supplied, doesnt that piss some of you off? Oh I know, I'll be called a liberal Democrat and told I dont get it. I'll bve told I dont know what the world situation is. So explain to me, not in terms of innuendo, but in facts, what did Iraq have to do with 911? What has the invasion of iraq gained us as far as security on the homefront? Why has the effort shifted from getting bin ladin in afghanistan to Iraq? Why has this administration forgotten about Afghanistan and allowed a resurgence of the Taliban? What am I missing fellas, again I'm just a dumb f**king lineman, help me to understand.....I'm a little slow!

LostArt

03-02-2007, 10:33 PM

Georgie, I think you are asking normal questions. I'm ready for ALL of our troops to come home. I'm with you, only I don't think all the Republicans are to blame. Aren't we all casting votes?

Now I have questions. What happens if we pull out suddenly? Can we do that at this point? Isn't Britian over there also? When we first went over there, did any of us question it then?

The problem is it has gone on a long time and it's a no-win situation. I'm trying to see if there will be results in the long run, but I just don't see it. I really don't. But, then again... I'm "politically challanged". :D

Dave@PSE&G

03-02-2007, 10:50 PM

With all the "American deaths and tragedy"......

If the Media we have today, was Alive and workin in WWII....America would have lost the war.
We all would, be speakin fuckin German today.

WWII Is What MADE America what it is today, and FOUNDED What America is...or,...excuse me,... "WAS".

Times have changed..in "America". And our Televised MEDIA...has changed America. Our "Nightly Local News", is now completely "Sensationalism".

International and National News? Bias...completely.
But, directionally centered, so you barely notice it.

And all we do is sit back and "Watch"...the "News"....

America deserves what it Votes for.
Vote for "Peace, diplomacy, and the stop global warming.

Now sit back and "reap" the rewards of your Vote. Right.
Swamp, I agree with you. The situation reminds me of Jack Nicholson on the stand in "A few Good Men" when he says "YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!?! YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!" I really believe that the media should be restricted in it's coverage. With camcorders and picture phones, how can the military keep certain things classified? This constant breach of security is at least partly to blame for the peril our troops are in 24hrs a day in that litterbox. Clamp down on CNN and confiscate some cameras, the enemy won't know what we're up to. But I'm sure the ACLU would have an issue with that.

Dave@PSE&G

03-02-2007, 11:20 PM

Of course the ACLU would.

America has the right to Know! Whether they want to or not. They WILL be directed by the Media, into the Media's Perspective on the "Top Story".

And, as America is..."sucked in by what they hear and See on the "Boob Tube". And believe it all, without a question. Truly Sad....

Who runs and OWNS the Media in America? Liberal Democrats.

And you REALLY think you have a "Objective" view of "News" in America when you watch the Local news? I mean seriously. Have the American People REALLY got THAT complaciant and Stupid?

I'm thinkin.....:( :mad:
You have a point. What I'm saying is there is too much info out there, so the element of surprise is gone. That's probably why we can't catch Bin Laden. Dumb ass Generals go on TV and announce where they're looking. How hard is it for him to stay one step ahead?

Orgnizdlbr

03-03-2007, 09:48 AM

You have a point. What I'm saying is there is too much info out there, so the element of surprise is gone. That's probably why we can't catch Bin Laden. Dumb ass Generals go on TV and announce where they're looking. How hard is it for him to stay one step ahead?

Dave, do you really think a General Officer is giving accurate information on any future operation that is pending? C'mon they dispense general information that has no value to an enemy.

Swamp, I agree with you. The situation reminds me of Jack Nicholson on the stand in "A few Good Men" when he says "YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!?! YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!"

I can handle it, so tell me. what is the TRUTH?

If the Media we have today, was Alive and workin in WWII....America would have lost the war.
We all would, be speakin fuckin German today.

Really? That is pure unmitigated conjecture. The fact is, there were anti war movements in WWII also, ya just dont hear about em.

Who runs and OWNS the Media in America? Liberal Democrats.

And you REALLY think you have a "Objective" view of "News" in America when you watch the Local news? I mean seriously. Have the American People REALLY got THAT complaciant and Stupid?

I assume that Fox is lumped in there? Well I guess not, because the venom that is spewed by people like Sean Hannity certainly isnt coming from any "Liberal democrat"

Originally Posted by Dave@PSE&G http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=27488#post27488)
Do you understand why every conflict since Vietnam has been unpopular here in the US? Because the media has brought it into our living rooms.

So, you're telling me that Desert Shield and Desert Storm were unpoular????

Dave@PSE&G

03-03-2007, 11:18 AM

Dave, do you really think a General Officer is giving accurate information on any future operation that is pending? C'mon they dispense general information that has no value to an enemy.
No, I was being sarcastic. I don't think that military leaders should give daily press briefings to the media. Tell them what went on is none of their damn business, they'll get all the details when the conflict is over.

Swamp, I agree with you. The situation reminds me of Jack Nicholson on the stand in "A few Good Men" when he says "YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!?! YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!"

I can handle it, so tell me. what is the TRUTH?
What don't you get? War is ugly? People get hurt or die in war? What the f#@* is with this country? After 911, everyone had an attitude of "They can't do that to us. GET 'EM!!!". Then when the blood starts spilling, the pussies start whining. People think it's a damn video game where they win and no one gets hurt. BULLSHIT!! Another reason that things are like this today is due to the influx of foriegners. Not because they come from other countries, but because many of them refuse to accept America as their new home. Suddenly, conflicts overseas become conflicts here. Who do you see leading protests when somethings about to go down? People wearing the customary clothing of that particular country and waving that country's flag. You don't think that's a conflict of interest? Personally, I don't give a shit where someone comes from as long as they sign the book on the way in, pay taxes, speak English and salute the AMERICAN flag. We don't need African Americans, Mexican Americans, Italian Americans, Iraqi Americans,etc. We need AMERICANS, period.

The fact is, there were anti war movements in WWII also, ya just dont hear about em.
Well you don't say. And why didn't you hear about them?

Who runs and OWNS the Media in America? Liberal Democrats.

And you REALLY think you have a "Objective" view of "News" in America when you watch the Local news? I mean seriously. Have the American People REALLY got THAT complaciant and Stupid?

I assume that Fox is lumped in there? Well I guess not, because the venom that is spewed by people like Sean Hannity certainly isnt coming from any "Liberal democrat"
All the Media outlets are sensationalist in their own way. The bulk of the media is liberal, with a liberal point of view. The righties are no better. I cringe every time I hear Rush Limbaugh. I find it amazing how easy it is for the media to sway popular opinion. The American people are, for the most part, sheep. That's why I feel that the military should clamp down on the flow of information during a conflict. Dissention among the American people during wartime will be our downfall. Eventually. There is nothing wrong with open debate. That's what makes this country great. But when an 18 yr old soldiers life depends on it, the debate should end.

So, you're telling me that Desert Shield and Desert Storm were unpoular????

These were more the chase and less the kill. There was no real prolonged war here. I don't mean that our troops don't deserve combat credit, they do. They put their lives on the line, and were in just as much danger. What I mean is the enemy turned and ran for the most part, so American casulties were very light. Apparently, Americans can handle light casulties, but if things get ugly, people start squawking.
If you read my post on the bottom of pg#33 on this thread, you will see the point I am trying to make. I don't want to have to keep re-hashing it. I don't like war, but I like living in fear, for myself and my son's future, even less.

Orgnizdlbr

03-03-2007, 12:34 PM

What don't you get? War is ugly? People get hurt or die in war? What the f#@* is with this country? After 911, everyone had an attitude of "They can't do that to us. GET 'EM!!!".

Get who Dave? The people who attacked us, or people who didnt? How many Iraqis on those planes Dave? Oh, I forgot, most were Saudis, well Bush 43 is personal friends with Prince Bandar, or whatever his name is, we certainly wouldnt want to squeeze the Princes balls for having 19 of his people attack us wqould we. Why did we forget about Bin Laden and go after Hussien? why have we allowed the resurgense of the Taliban?
I'll tell ya why dave, because we were mislead, we lost sight of the mission dave, were went off on a diversion that was unnessary. All because this administration dropped the ball......

These were more the chase and less the kill. There was no real prolonged war here. I don't mean that our troops don't deserve combat credit, they do. They put their lives on the line, and were in just as much danger. What I mean is the enemy turned and ran for the most part, so American casulties were very light. Apparently, Americans can handle light casulties, but if things get ugly, people start squawking.

Different leaders Dave, thats the difference.....

BTW, I sick and tired of hearing that Democrats are unpatriotic, and only Republicans care about national security. My old man, a lifelong Democrat, served in WWII and spent time as a guest in a POW camp, aint no one on God's green earth more patriotic than my old man, not even the neo-cons like wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rove........

Dave@PSE&G

03-03-2007, 02:06 PM

What don't you get? War is ugly? People get hurt or die in war? What the f#@* is with this country? After 911, everyone had an attitude of "They can't do that to us. GET 'EM!!!".

Get who Dave? The people who attacked us, or people who didnt? How many Iraqis on those planes Dave? Oh, I forgot, most were Saudis, well Bush 43 is personal friends with Prince Bandar, or whatever his name is, we certainly wouldnt want to squeeze the Princes balls for having 19 of his people attack us wqould we. Why did we forget about Bin Laden and go after Hussien? why have we allowed the resurgense of the Taliban?
I'll tell ya why dave, because we were mislead, we lost sight of the mission dave, were went off on a diversion that was unnessary. All because this administration dropped the ball......

Different leaders Dave, thats the difference.....

BTW, I sick and tired of hearing that Democrats are unpatriotic, and only Republicans care about national security. My old man, a lifelong Democrat, served in WWII and spent time as a guest in a POW camp, aint no one on God's green earth more patriotic than my old man, not even the neo-cons like wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rove........

Your reading comprehension sucks. Read my post as many times as necessary until you understand what I'm saying. I don't recall saying dems are unpatriotic. I'm saying they are playing party lines and dividing the country when we should all put up a united front. I've never met your father, so I would never say a negative word about the man. As far as where the hijackers come from; whats the fucking difference? What if they came from Canada? Or Guatemala? Bottom line is they were organized and financed out of Afghanistan, by Bin Laden. Now if you understand the last 15 or so words, NOW read my last post.

Orgnizdlbr

03-03-2007, 06:03 PM

As far as where the hijackers come from; whats the fucking difference? What if they came from Canada? Or Guatemala? Bottom line is they were organized and financed out of Afghanistan, by Bin Laden. Now if you understand the last 15 or so words, NOW read my last post.

Well, well, precisely my point.....turn about is fair play my friend, speaking of comprehension and sucking.......So why Iraq Dave???

BTW, in my post, where does it say YOU made the remark about Patriotism and democrats? Reading comprehension Dave. Again, I'll read your posts and interpret the way I see fit, if you dont care for my answer or disagree but feel I havent comprehended your cerebral opinion and views, dont answer, I really dont a give shit either way. I was civil in my post, I cast no aspersions against you or any one else who disagrees, this is only opinion and discourse between 2 lineman from the same state dave, I bear you no malice, so why jump ugly with me?

Dave@PSE&G

03-04-2007, 01:59 AM

Well, well, precisely my point.....turn about is fair play my friend, speaking of comprehension and sucking.......So why Iraq Dave???

BTW, in my post, where does it say YOU made the remark about Patriotism and democrats? Reading comprehension Dave. Again, I'll read your posts and interpret the way I see fit, if you dont care for my answer or disagree but feel I havent comprehended your cerebral opinion and views, dont answer, I really dont a give shit either way. I was civil in my post, I cast no aspersions against you or any one else who disagrees, this is only opinion and discourse between 2 lineman from the same state dave, I bear you no malice, so why jump ugly with me?
Whatever, man. You and Batts have it all figured out. I'm wrong, you're right.

Orgnizdlbr

03-04-2007, 06:53 AM

Whatever, man. You and Batts have it all figured out. I'm wrong, you're right.

Great comeback.....fact is no one has it "all figured out".....

LostArt

03-04-2007, 07:02 AM

So, who you planning on voting for Georgie? Do you know yet?

Orgnizdlbr

03-04-2007, 07:14 AM

So, who you planning on voting for Georgie? Do you know yet?

No, too far away grace....

LostArt

03-04-2007, 07:17 AM

No, too far away grace....

Yeah....but are you looking at any particular one closely?

If you tell me Hillary, I'm going to go puke.

Orgnizdlbr

03-04-2007, 07:20 AM

Yeah....but are you looking at any particular one closely?

If you tell me Hillary, I'm going to go puke.

I'm no fan of Hillary Grace, besides I believe she is unelectable....also, that voice grating on my ears for 4 years.....no wonder Bill screws aroundhttp://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon12.gif

"little beaver"

03-04-2007, 10:12 AM

Great comeback.....fact is no one has it "all figured out".....

Actually OL, the above is my viewpoint exactly. So there are a couple of points to keep in mind. First, this war on Islam is going to be a long drawn out affair. The 'Irag affair' is only the 'opening salvo' and I fear( as I have stated previous) the worst is yet to come.

Strategically,( if you take the long term view) it made good sense to invade Irag and create a 'salient' in the heart of Islam. It weakens their postion both militarly and pychologically. So, if things didn't work out exactly as was planned, then everyone stick together and find the solution. As we all know from line work, there is one out there, we just have to 'figure it out'.

Secondly, there are some very poor precendents being set, if one takes the 'long term view'. We ( meaning the US as the leader of the western world) are looking confused, weak and fragmented. Constant, irrational rants and vile hate directed at Pres Bush are disrespectful and sends a poor message both on the home front and to the enemy.

Batts says he served in the military??? A soldier is taught respect for the rank. Remember, you salute the rank not necessarly the person. (Very difficult for me, I admit). Pres Bush is the CO of the western World. Unlike the military, he has a term of office and will soon be replaced. When you lose respect for the office, then discipline breaks down and you soon have anarchy, followed by defeat. GUARANTEED!!!

RWD

03-04-2007, 12:08 PM

We get CNN europe here. This week I saw the Britts welcoming home thier triumfant troops from the "Nation" building job they have been working on for what .... 15 years?

We have the same obligation in Iraq guys. It won't be done in a month or two.

RWD

Orgnizdlbr

03-04-2007, 04:18 PM

Strategically,( if you take the long term view) it made good sense to invade Irag and create a 'salient' in the heart of Islam. It weakens their postion both militarly and pychologically. So, if things didn't work out exactly as was planned, then everyone stick together and find the solution. As we all know from line work, there is one out there, we just have to 'figure it out'.

Well Beav, if it made good sense to invade Iraq to create said salient, why was it not presented to the American people as such? Is it because the American people would not support such an invasion? Maybe that is why the powers that be felt we needed to be "cajoled" into invasion with warnings of WMD. You have obviously been around the pike a few times Beav, so you know you can only bullshit the people so long, then when the people find out they have been mislead there are usually consequences. Now, in another thread here, I have stated what, IMHO, should take place in Iraq, it has nothing to do with withdrawal....

BTW, from what I understand a salient to be tends to make the force in the salient position vulnerable, general on 3 sides, to attack.

"little beaver"

03-04-2007, 07:41 PM

Well Beav, if it made good sense to invade Iraq to create said salient, why was it not presented to the American people as such? Is it because the American people would not support such an invasion? Maybe that is why the powers that be felt we needed to be "cajoled" into invasion with warnings of WMD. You have obviously been around the pike a few times Beav, so you know you can only bullshit the people so long, then when the people find out they have been mislead there are usually consequences. Now, in another thread here, I have stated what, IMHO, should take place in Iraq, it has nothing to do with withdrawal....

BTW, from what I understand a salient to be tends to make the force in the salient position vulnerable, general on 3 sides, to attack.

Well, there's a case to be made for some deception, intentional or otherwise. As difficult as it may be at the top, we all know that if you're not completely open and honest, there will be a price to pay. (Remember FDR and the attack on Pearl Harbor).

However, once your into it.............you've pretty well got to see it through or there will be even more severe consequences to pay down the road.

As for SALIENTS, it's always a trickie, tactical situation. The only situation that is more difficult, it a fighting withdrawal (retreat). The Ypres Salient in WW I is one of the most famous in recent times. The British and Canadians lost 75000 trying to hold it and the Germans 135000 trying to eradicate it.

But in retrospect it can be argued that the bulldog stubborness of the Brits and Canucks at Ypres won the War. Of course, the converse can be put forward that it wasn't worth the price and the Allies would have won anyway. We only know we WON!!

To not come out of Irag with some tactical advantage, will just be 'ground'(both in real terms and phycologically) that will have to be gained back at some later point in time and at a much greater price. People are so caught up in their little busy worlds and so divorced from reality that they are not seeing the 'Big picture'. The 'Big Picture' will be quickly apparent if the Irag thing does not bring some tactical advantage of some sort.

Dave@PSE&G

03-04-2007, 10:45 PM

Well Beav, if it made good sense to invade Iraq to create said salient, why was it not presented to the American people as such? Is it because the American people would not support such an invasion? Maybe that is why the powers that be felt we needed to be "cajoled" into invasion with warnings of WMD. You have obviously been around the pike a few times Beav, so you know you can only bullshit the people so long, then when the people find out they have been mislead there are usually consequences. Now, in another thread here, I have stated what, IMHO, should take place in Iraq, it has nothing to do with withdrawal....

BTW, from what I understand a salient to be tends to make the force in the salient position vulnerable, general on 3 sides, to attack.

Military operations are not, and never have been, discussed with the American people before implementation. I don't think they should be discussed during the operation, either. Now obviously there will be critics and supporters of any action or inaction taken. Not everything is a conspiracy, right wing or left wing. I trust my government (did I just say that?!?!) to do what is right for the country as a hole. Do you remember little league? "We win as a team and we lose as a team". Well the same applies here. Do I want our Government to get in over their heads and "lose"? No, I most certainly do not. What I am certain of though is if we sit idle against radical Islamist extremists, hoping for a "diplomatic" solution, we're going to lose. Big time.

The reason why I tossed in the towel on pg#53 is because it is exhausting having these pissing contests over 1 sentence in a 200 word post. This is my point in a nutshell: LET'S GET OUR SHIT TOGETHER, GET THE SHIT DONE, AND GET THE HELL HOME. That's what I'm saying, nothing else. It seems to me that all that you are trying to do is get a rise out of me. Congratulations. Now tell me, did you solve anything busting my balls? In this country today, we spend more time yanking each others cranks while politicians spew bullshit and acomplish NOTHING!! Don't you think that if the leadership of this country (both sides of the aisle) would work together we could get through this mess sooner? I happen to believe that we would. That would be a good thing.

Dave@PSE&G

03-04-2007, 10:49 PM

Well, there's a case to be made for some deception, intentional or otherwise. As difficult as it may be at the top, we all know that if you're not completely open and honest, there will be a price to pay. (Remember FDR and the attack on Pearl Harbor).

However, once your into it.............you've pretty well got to see it through or there will be even more severe consequences to pay down the road.

As for SALIENTS, it's always a trickie, tactical situation. The only situation that is more difficult, it a fighting withdrawal (retreat). The Ypres Salient in WW I is one of the most famous in recent times. The British and Canadians lost 75000 trying to hold it and the Germans 135000 trying to eradicate it.

But in retrospect it can be argued that the bulldog stubborness of the Brits and Canucks at Ypres won the War. Of course, the converse can be put forward that it wasn't worth the price and the Allies would have won anyway. We only know we WON!!

To not come out of Irag with some tactical advantage, will just be 'ground'(both in real terms and phycologically) that will have to be gained back at some later point in time and at a much greater price. People are so caught up in their little busy worlds and so divorced from reality that they are not seeing the 'Big picture'. The 'Big Picture' will be quickly apparent if the Irag thing does not bring some tactical advantage of some sort.

Thank You Beav.

Orgnizdlbr

03-05-2007, 07:31 AM

LET'S GET OUR SHIT TOGETHER, GET THE SHIT DONE, AND GET THE HELL HOME.

Dave, if you read my psots in other threads, you'd know that is exactly what I'm saying.

Dave, in no way shape or form was I attempting to get a rise out of you, or bust your balls. I happen to believe we can have a difference of opinion in a civil manner. I wasnt the one who jumped ugly first.

billg

03-05-2007, 10:32 AM

"Get the shit done..."

I must be one of those people "divorced from reality". What was it we went over there to do again?

Dave@PSE&G

03-05-2007, 10:48 AM

"Get the shit done..."

I must be one of those people "divorced from reality". What was it we went over there to do again?

Why don't you tell us why we're there. Chances are you are going to anyway. But before you respond, read through this thread first, ok. Thanks.

Dave@PSE&G

03-05-2007, 10:49 AM

Dave, if you read my psots in other threads, you'd know that is exactly what I'm saying.

Dave, in no way shape or form was I attempting to get a rise out of you, or bust your balls. I happen to believe we can have a difference of opinion in a civil manner. I wasnt the one who jumped ugly first.

Ok, truce. Cool with you?

Orgnizdlbr

03-05-2007, 11:43 AM

Ok, truce. Cool with you?

LOL, fine, but i really didnt think we were fueding....just different viewpoints.

Dave@PSE&G

03-05-2007, 11:31 PM

"Turce"? That's something the UN does. Which means,

"Both sides still disagree, but continue to dislike eachother, but...for now, will reframe from rhetoric, and just, shut up and hunker down for awhile."

Speak your shit man, ALWAYS. No matter What or Who seems to stand in your wayl

I've learned alot form Labor, and on this board.

Like, how to "tone down a bit". Not quite enough, but I'm learnin...

I've learned alot form batshit too. Like how NOT, to look like an asshole, by posting, the way he posts.

Lot of good people on this board, lot of things to "Learn".

People think just cause you're postin shit on a board, you can be any personality you want to be. Because..."nobody knows who you really are".

I've been on this board for....shit...4 years? I don't know...

I'm the same person I was when I signed up. BUT, I've learned, from people here.

"There are different ways to get your point across", that might be more,....how shall I say...?

Productive.:cool:
Me and O-Labor are cool. I just let the topic get the best of me. I had just got through a round or 2 with Battman and then Labor chimed in. As most everyone knows, I try to keep it civil (for the most part). I must have still been a bit hopped up. I'm over it. I hear what you're saying Swamp, and believe me, I have no intention of holding back, I say what's on my mind. That is what usually gets me in trouble. As for the truce, I just wanted to be sure to wipe out the tension that I felt was brewing. O-Labor and I are both Jersey guys, so we are geneticly engineered to sustain an arguement.:cool:

Orgnizdlbr

03-06-2007, 07:20 AM

O-Labor and I are both Jersey guys, so we are geneticly engineered to sustain an arguement.:cool:

LMAO, very well put brother!!!

PA BEN

03-31-2007, 08:31 PM

But never forget, that our men and women are fighting for what The American people voted for, and think is Important for the survival of our Amrerican way of life. When America "Changes its mind"...the "mission" is still "hot".

HowEVER you believe...Support our troops. Or there will BE No America. Democrat or Republican.

http://www.iwo.com/heroes.htm

Well swamp what do you think now that the Democrats passed this WAR SPENDING bill? It’s full of backdoor PORK, and to get money for our troops President Bush has to except the Democrats CUT and RUN agenda. :mad:

Dave@PSE&G

03-31-2007, 08:51 PM

Well swamp what do you think now that the Democrats passed this WAR SPENDING bill? It’s full of backdoor PORK, and to get money for our troops President Bush has to except the Democrats CUT and RUN agenda. :mad:

That's pretty ****ed up, but it is how our government has been doing business for quite some time now. Both sides are guilty of it, and it is truly a disgrace. But I guess those spinach farmers need relief. Bush is screwed here. If he signs it, the military gets its funding, with conditions of a timed pullout, and money is wasted on bullshit (pork). If he veto's it, the Dems say he's not supporting our troops. It's a no-win for the President, and I think it is a no-win for the American people.
Now on to more disgraceful shit. What do you think about that bitch Pelosi making a little stop in Syria? The same Syria that is famous for state sponsered terrorism and supporting insurgents in Iraq that are killing our soldiers. Someone should give her a good shaking. Put a woman in a position of power and she'll spend every waking moment trying to prove that her d*** is bigger than everyone else's. (I'm sorry LA, I had to say it.:o )

PA BEN

03-31-2007, 09:15 PM

:cool:
Now on to more disgraceful shit. What do you think about that bitch Pelosi making a little stop in Syria? The same Syria that is famous for state sponsered terrorism and supporting insurgents in Iraq that are killing our soldiers. Someone should give her a good shaking. Put a woman in a position of power and she'll spend every waking moment trying to prove that her d*** is bigger than everyone else's. (I'm sorry LA, I had to say it.:o )

I'm sure Syria will give her the same respect they give the women in there Country. Talk about no respect for the President.:mad:

PA BEN

04-01-2007, 09:10 AM

You sure have away with words:D

LostArt

04-01-2007, 09:27 AM

You sure have away with words:D

Have you seen the Swamp dictionary or grammar book? WHEW!!!

:D

For Dave: It does seem like most of us use the family jewels as a measuring stick. Why is that, you suppose? I mean, if you ain't got any, then you are a feline! What's up with that???

No, I'm not starting an agrument. I'm saying this tongue in cheek! :D

As far as the story on that feline going to Syria, I agree. She has no business over there. I take it as a personal slap also.

Dave@PSE&G

04-01-2007, 10:53 PM

Have you seen the Swamp dictionary or grammar book? WHEW!!!

:D

For Dave: It does seem like most of us use the family jewels as a measuring stick. Why is that, you suppose? I mean, if you ain't got any, then you are a feline! What's up with that???

No, I'm not starting an agrument. I'm saying this tongue in cheek! :D

As far as the story on that feline going to Syria, I agree. She has no business over there. I take it as a personal slap also.

LA, I don't want to get into it, so let's just say I think much less of Pelosi than I do about Hillary Clinton. She is an elitist bitch who thinks she knows everything. Critics will argue that men don't like women in power. When they have an attitude like hers, then yes, there is a problem with it.