Dick Cheney IBEW member

[wudwoker51]

How many of you know that "Richard Cranium" Cheney was at one time a member of the IBEW. It is my understanding that after flunking out of college(Yale) in 1960 he went to work as a grunt on a linecrew in Wyoming. Can you imagine being up a pole and there on the ground directly under you is none other than old Dickhead. I know what I would do, how about you?

[dbrown20]

Yeah, I've heard and seen reference to that. I remember one documentary that interviewed some of his friends. One said. "It was grueling work in the hot sun when he was building those power lines in Wyo." Ha!

Another in newsweek said he was a "utility lineman". Why those ya hoos don't check their references a little closer, I don't know. The time frame given when referencing those things make me doubt if he would have even have had time to complete an apprenticeship. I'm sure he was just a grunt. I worked in Wyoming for about 8 years and never heard this mentioned until after he became VP. dbrown20

[Dave@PSE&G]

And to think 1 Lineman up a pole could have saved 3,000 plus American lives and 20,000 wounded not to say 100's of thousands of Iraqis by dropping a large wire grip.


By the way why wasn't this **** drafted with 5 college deferrments when he flunked out???? More republican scum.
C'mon Steve. Dems got deferments, too. It is the old story about the "haves" and the "have-nots". If you "have" connections, you "have-not" had to dodge bullets. Sure, 5 deferrments is excessive and unusual, but Clinton got one, Bush got one, and I am sure a shitload of Senators and Congressmen got'em, too.

[wudwoker51]

No way was Ole Dickhead a lineman, his future father-in-law at the time was either pissed at him for failing again or had come to realize that his future son-in-law was a %#@!$&^ loser ( probably both) so he arranged a summer job as a grunt as punishment. As far as deferments go, if the men who send our troops to war had either served in one or had relatives that did, I doubt if they would be so quick as to put them in harms way. Working men and women from our middle class on down have always fought America's wars and always will. Most of the boys born with a silver spoon in their mouth are pussies.

["little beaver"]

C'mon Steve. Dems got deferments, too. It is the old story about the "haves" and the "have-nots". If you "have" connections, you "have-not" had to dodge bullets. Sure, 5 deferrments is excessive and unusual, but Clinton got one, Bush got one, and I am sure a shitload of Senators and Congressmen got'em, too.

Bush served in the Air National Guard. For the ? time that is legitimate military service.


wudwoker51, "How many of you know that "Richard Cranium" Cheney was at one time a member of the IBEW. It is my understanding that after flunking out of college(Yale) in 1960 he went to work as a grunt on a linecrew in Wyoming. Can you imagine being up a pole and there on the ground directly under you is none other than old Dickhead. I know what I would do, how about you?"

Hey Wuudie, so what would YOU do?? Allright your're going to outsmart Cheney............heh, heh. So lets see, Cheneys the head of Haliburton, a multi-millionare. So what is it you do for a living..........I forget??

[Dave@PSE&G]

Bush served in the Air National Guard. For the ? time that is legitimate military service.

That's true, Beav. I'm a Bush supporter, but even I admit that his military record is, well, let's just say "less than stellar".:(

[Orgnizdlbr]

Bush served in the Air National Guard. For the ? time that is legitimate military service.


wudwoker51, "How many of you know that "Richard Cranium" Cheney was at one time a member of the IBEW. It is my understanding that after flunking out of college(Yale) in 1960 he went to work as a grunt on a linecrew in Wyoming. Can you imagine being up a pole and there on the ground directly under you is none other than old Dickhead. I know what I would do, how about you?"

Hey Wuudie, so what would YOU do?? Allright your're going to outsmart Cheney............heh, heh. So lets see, Cheneys the head of Haliburton, a multi-millionare. So what is it you do for a living..........I forget??



So it's all predicated on wealth, so if you can steal the most????

[wudwoker51]

When the 32oz. hammer was about 5ft. from Old Dickhead's skull I'd yell HEADACHE, knowing that being the dumbass he is instead of moving he would look straight up and take it right between the eyes. As far as what I do is what I have always done, linework. A self made man, I didn't need daddy or daddy-in-laws help to succeed. No I'm not a CEO or a millionaire I'm just an old JL living life on the line and I would not want it any other way. Any working man who supports the republican'ts like Dubya and Dickhead need their heads examined. These so called entitled assholes are out to destroy working class America which will in turn destroy America.

[Dave@PSE&G]

When the 32oz. hammer was about 5ft. from Old Dickhead's skull I'd yell HEADACHE, knowing that being the dumbass he is instead of moving he would look straight up and take right between the eyes. As far as what I do is what I have always done, linework. A self made man, I didn't need daddy or daddy-in-laws help to succeed. No I'm not a CEO or a millionaire I'm just an old JL living life on the line and I would not want it any other way. Any working man who supports the republican'ts like Dubya and Dickhead need their heads examined. These so called entitled assholes are out to destroy working class America which will in turn destroy America.

Hey wud, I understand where you're coming from. I am working class like yourself. I am, however, a republican supporter. How can that be, you ask? A union man voting for Republicans? Well, try living in NJ, where the Taxes are unbelievably high. The state is run by Dems, most all of them corrupt in one way or another. Social programs oozing out of the woodwork, initiated by Dems, while my property taxes spiral out of control. People around the country think that there's all millionaires here in NJ. There are some, but there are a lot of us somwhere between broke and rich who are fed up with watching our money go out the window. The dem gameplan is "more government working for everyone". Bullshit on that. I'd prefer less government, less taxes, less welfare. This would allow companies to expand and grow, creating more work, even for union labor. As a self made man, you should be able to understand that.
I did support Bush, but I am not happy about the war in Iraq. I don't like any war, period. I guess I like the republican theory because I absolutely dispise the democratic theory. And let's not kid ourselves about "entitlist assholes". All politicians, after being in office a term or so, become entitlist assholes. You think Ted Kennedy isn't an entitlist? He's certainly an asshole. I guess what it boils down to is: Don't hate the players, hate the game.

[wudwoker51]

Dave, You have the right as an American to support whoever you want, but all that these Republican't party pricks want to do is eliminate collective bargaining all together. One thing my dad instilled in me was Democrats support the working man and the Republican'ts are corporate pawns. Just look at their track record regarding anti-labor legislation that they have attempted to enact (sometimes successsfully) over the years, it will make you sick. I participate in the political process like every American should but when less than 50% of our citizens chose not to, something is terribly wrong. I just cannot understand how a working man can support a party that wants to do nothing more than to destroy the very livelihood that he and his family depend on. I am less than thrilled with the majority of all politicians but will never support a Republican't party that has shown nothing but disdain for the working man for the majority of its existance.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Dave, You have the right as an American to support whoever you want, but all that these Republican't party pricks want to do is eliminate collective bargaining all together. One thing my dad instilled in me was Democrats support the working man and the Republican'ts are corporate pawns. Just look at there track record regarding anti-labor legislation that they have attempted to enact (sometimes successsfully) over the years, it will make you sick. I participate in the political process like every American should but when less than 50% of our citizens chose not to, something is terribly wrong. I just cannot understand how a working man can support a party that wants to do nothing more than to destroy the very livelyhood he and his family depend on. I am less than thrilled with the majority of all politicians but will never support a Republican't party that has shown nothing but disdain for the working man for the majority of its existance.

Point made. I guess that's the catch-22, isn't it. Republicans win=workers lose. Democrats win=taxpayers lose. I work and pay taxes, so I'm ****ed either way. I think I'll get a drink. Excuse me...:(

[PA BEN]

Dave, You have the right as an American to support whoever you want, but all that these Republican't party pricks want to do is eliminate collective bargaining all together.

In the last 28 years we had 4 different Presidents. Regan 2 terms, Bush Sr. one term, Clinten 2 terms, Bush Jr 2 terms. I though I'll leave Carter out. Bush Sr. and Clinten road the wave Regan started. Clintens first term he had a Demo. Congress. What did he do for the working man while he was in office? Janett Reno??? Look what the Demo.'s are doing now? Same o thing with backdoor talk. Under Clinten we got Gun control, every fruit and nut in the country gets special rights Nafta, Monica, Give back canpane money. The lest is long. Now my local Leaders are Demo.'s There talking about gun control and gay marrage and more tax's. I do beleave the Demo. party of today isn't the working class Demo. party of yesterday. So witch is the worst of the two evils. You decide the voter. Maybe this should be the soap box forum. I'll get off of mine.:D

[dbrown20]

How a working stiff can support and vote for a Republican is beyond me. I don't care if every gay in the country gets married. Could care less. If Clinton got a blow job ever day he was in office. Could care less. At least he didn't start a war. Had the economy in good shape. I know. I know,that was because of Bush Sr.

Iraq. Abu Ghraib. Walter Reed. WMD's. FEMA. Hurricane Katrina. Scooter Libby. Firing of US Attorneys. Jesus, when will it end? Bush is about the stupidist president we have ever had. Dick (4 or 5 deferments) CHaney has his entire family on the Govt. tit.

THe Republicans are trying their hardest to give the White House to the Democrats. I expect the Democrats wil snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. dbrown20

[Orgnizdlbr]

In the last 28 years we had 4 different Presidents. Regan 2 terms, Bush Sr. one term, Clinten 2 terms, Bush Jr 2 terms. I though I'll leave Carter out. Bush Sr. and Clinten road the wave Regan started. Clintens first term he had a Demo. Congress. What did he do for the working man while he was in office? Janett Reno??? Look what the Demo.'s are doing now? Same o thing with backdoor talk. Under Clinten we got Gun control, every fruit and nut in the country gets special rights Nafta, Monica, Give back canpane money. The lest is long. Now my local Leaders are Demo.'s There talking about gun control and gay marrage and more tax's. I do beleave the Demo. party of today isn't the working class Demo. party of yesterday. So witch is the worst of the two evils. You decide the voter. Maybe this should be the soap box forum. I'll get off of mine.:D

You made a pretty broad statement implying that Clinton did nothing for the working stiff. Why not attempt to find out how he didn't screw the working man, here's a little assignment for you PA, research what decissions came out of the National Labor Relations Board under Clinton, then research what decisions came out under Bush 41, Bush 43 and Ronnie Reagan then report back and we'll have a nice discussion.

You have evey right to vote for who ever you choose, I fully support your right to excersice that right. However, when I see statements like the Dems want all my guns, and their agenda only involves queers getting married, I have to wonder how many working men really pay attention to what is going on regarding workers rights. Mr. Rove is the king of spin. He is the best there is at spinning info that, in the grand scheme of things, is done to take the citizens eye off of what really counts. C'mon guys, open your eyes, before you know it, it will be too latefor workers and the rights that are eroded every day under this administration!

[Dave@PSE&G]

How a working stiff can support and vote for a Republican is beyond me. I don't care if every gay in the country gets married. Could care less. If Clinton got a blow job ever day he was in office. Could care less. At least he didn't start a war. Had the economy in good shape. I know. I know,that was because of Bush Sr.

Iraq. Abu Ghraib. Walter Reed. WMD's. FEMA. Hurricane Katrina. Scooter Libby. Firing of US Attorneys. Jesus, when will it end? Bush is about the stupidist president we have ever had. Dick (4 or 5 deferments) CHaney has his entire family on the Govt. tit.

THe Republicans are trying their hardest to give the White House to the Democrats. I expect the Democrats wil snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. dbrown20

It's actually quite simple. I'd rather support the party that would rather make our economy business friendly and force the people with their hands out to start chipping in and contributing to society instead of draining it's resources. Now I don't want to get into a philosophical debate here, but the Democratic philosophy of today is a weak, pathetic, convoluted version of what it once was. I saw someone mention this earlier in this thread, and it's a good point. When FDR authord the New Deal, which provided social security for all, and welfare assistance if needed, it was also ASSUMED that all able-bodied Americans who needed help were willing to work for it. No work, no eat. The New Deal also created jobs for Americans who were unemployed due to the Great Depression. I guess that is where the ties between Dems and labor trace back to. Well, Social Security is a pipe dream for anyone younger than 40, and welfare rolls are enormous and out of control. Which of course leads to higher taxes, and that is unacceptable to me. Neither party does ANYTHING to fix it, probably because people recieving food stamps will vote for those persons who provided them, among other things. We need less government, and more people paying their fair share. That is, in my opinion, where the Republicans stand. I don't want to argue about how the republicans started a war, because that doesn't mean shit. This problem existed long before 9-11 and Iraq.

[Orgnizdlbr]

It's actually quite simple. I'd rather support the party that would rather make our economy business friendly and force the people with their hands out to start chipping in and contributing to society instead of draining it's resources.


Thats a fair point Dave, let me ask though, exactly what is meant by "making our economy business friendly" in the terms of a conservative Republican viewpoint.

[Dave@PSE&G]

You made a pretty broad statement implying that Clinton did nothing for the working stiff. Why not attempt to find out how he didn't screw the working man, here's a little assignment for you PA, research what decissions came out of the National Labor Relations Board under Clinton, then research what decisions came out under Bush 41, Bush 43 and Ronnie Reagan then report back and we'll have a nice discussion.

You have evey right to vote for who ever you choose, I fully support your right to excersice that right. However, when I see statements like the Dems want all my guns, and their agenda only involves queers getting married, I have to wonder how many working men really pay attention to what is going on regarding workers rights. Mr. Rove is the king of spin. He is the best there is at spinning info that, in the grand scheme of things, is done to take the citizens eye off of what really counts. C'mon guys, open your eyes, before you know it, it will be too latefor workers and the rights that are eroded every day under this administration!
Hey OL, let me ask you something. Do you think that the cost of union labor had anything to do with the reason why America 's manufacturing sector has dried up? I don't want to be a hypocrit, because I enjoy the perks of being a union member, but could it actually be possible that if there were more incentives(tax wise) for manufacturing to remain here, it would have? It's hard to blame the owner of the widget factory for going to Guatamala, where labor is $.70 an hour, instead of staying here where union labor is $14 an hour. Why would he? If the government offered up tax breaks for businesses, which Republicans like to do, the widget factory might still be here, along with a bunch of union jobs. See what I'm getting at? The Dems will scream to their constituents that the Republicans only care about business and not about them. The Republicans will scream back that the Dems just want to "tax and spend", etc. Meanwhile, all our jobs are running out the back door because these assholes we elect are too busy watching themselves on TV and listening to their own soundbites. It's too easy to just point a finger at a particular President and blame all our problems on him because he's the current schmuck in office.

[dbrown20]

the main reason that so many jobs go to 3rd world countries is so the CEO's and their buddies can get more money. Have you ever checked to see what kind of money these people draw? If they would just par back on the EXEC's salaries it would sure as hell help bring down costs.

I believe in people getting what they're worth but there is so much publicity about even when business's do bad the EXEC's still get their cut. Lay off the working stiff but take care of the big boys.

When you see comparisons of CEO compensation of 30 or 40 years ago compared to the workers, it wasn't so bad. But now it's completely ridiculous.

What do you think of Haliburton moving their headquarters to Dubai? I guess Chaney will move over there when his term is up so he can rake in some more gravey. They have no shame. dbrown20

[Dave@PSE&G]

Thats a fair point Dave, let me ask though, exactly what is meant by "making our economy business friendly" in the terms of a conservative Republican viewpoint.
I'm not an economist, but what I mean is make setting up shop here in the US and staying here more lucrative. Businesses are taxed to death to alleviate the tax burden on individuals (property and income). If we cut out, or at least reform the welfare system, ANd start making the Government accountable for it's spending, there would be flexibility to give those tax incentives. Look, I don't care who fixes the problem, I just wish someone would try.
Here in NJ, we're in deep shit. We are WAY over taxed, welfare is climbing, the politians are blatantly corrupt, and nothing is being done to fix it. Maybe I'm more passionate about this effects me directly. I just can't take anymore of it, and the republicans seem to be a better choice, thats all. I can't actually say they're any better or worse.

[Dave@PSE&G]

the main reason that so many jobs go to 3rd world countries is so the CEO's and their buddies can get more money. Have you ever checked to see what kind of money these people draw? If they would just par back on the EXEC's salaries it would sure as hell help bring down costs.

I believe in people getting what they're worth but there is so much publicity about even when business's do bad the EXEC's still get their cut. Lay off the working stiff but take care of the big boys.

When you see comparisons of CEO compensation of 30 or 40 years ago compared to the workers, it wasn't so bad. But now it's completely ridiculous.

What do you think of Haliburton moving their headquarters to Dubai? I guess Chaney will move over there when his term is up so he can rake in some more gravey. They have no shame. dbrown20
That's the point that I'm trying to make. If it was financially beneficial for them to stay here, they would. They are always looking for profits, and i can't say I blame them. It's just disgraceful that things have deteriorated to the point that they have.
As for the CEO's getting more and more, what can you do. It's like in baseball. Without a salary cap, the prices continue skyward. Who suffers? The litlle guy (who pays for the tickets and hot dogs). You'd think that if a company was doing that bad and a CEO was raking it in that the shareholders would pitch a fit. But as long as the dividends roll in, no one gives a shit.

Halliburton? Well, I don't think that company could be less liked then they already are, so they probably don't give a shit what people say. Again, whenever an American company takes their business to an overseas base, I am disgusted. However, in this case, I'm more insulted than anything. When you think of the tax dollars they collect yet pay nothing back...

[tolex42]

Dave, you got to get your head out of your ass. Oh and by the way, you are a hypocrite.

Cheney a lineman!!!!!!! He wouldn't make a pimple on the good lineman's ass.

["little beaver"]

That's the point that I'm trying to make. If it was financially beneficial for them to stay here, they would. They are always looking for profits, and i can't say I blame them. It's just disgraceful that things have deteriorated to the point that they have.
As for the CEO's getting more and more, what can you do. It's like in baseball. Without a salary cap, the prices continue skyward. Who suffers? The litlle guy (who pays for the tickets and hot dogs). You'd think that if a company was doing that bad and a CEO was raking it in that the shareholders would pitch a fit. But as long as the dividends roll in, no one gives a shit.

Halliburton? Well, I don't think that company could be less liked then they already are, so they probably don't give a shit what people say. Again, whenever an American company takes their business to an overseas base, I am disgusted. However, in this case, I'm more insulted than anything. When you think of the tax dollars they collect yet pay nothing back...


No worry Dave you got it figured out. It makes no differance where Haliburtons HQ is how much money he makes. I could care less it's out of my world!! Haliburton has been in our area since the 50's, a first class outfit to work for. There was probably few that were working for them last year that weren't making 100K and up and that was truck drivers and labourers. This winter has been slower in the Oil Patch, but everyone needed some catch up time.

[dbrown20]

It just so happens that Haliburton was originally from Duncan,Ok., not far from where I worked. Their wages for the hands were not stellar. I remember talking to some Haliburton hands when I was in Wyoming. As a lineman I made more per hr. than any of them I talked to. The only way any of them made any decent money was working a ton of overtime. Don't let them shit you. They're non-union and they're not gonna pay a decent wage. Again don't tell me about Haliburton.

As an aside I once crawled up in the cabin of a freight train once. Burlington Northern by the way. I compared hrly wages with a couple of engineers. Their hourly was about the same as a lineman. They did make a lot of overtime which made their yearly gross pretty large though. They did a lot of what they called "dead heading", which as I understood it was after they had completed their trip they were transported back to their home. This was "dead heading". They were paid for this also which added quite a bit to their pay. Good Union hands. dbrown20

["little beaver"]

It just so happens that Haliburton was originally from Duncan,Ok., not far from where I worked. Their wages for the hands was not stellar. I remember talking to some Haliburton hands when I was in Wyoming. As a lineman I made more per hr. than any of them I talked to. The only way any of them made any decent money was working a ton of overtime. Don't let them shit you. They're non-union and they're not gonna pay a decent wage. Again don't tell me about Haliburton.

As an aside I once crawled up in the cabin of a freight train once. Burlington Northern by the way. I compared hrly wages with a couple of engineers. Their hourly was about the same as a lineman. They did make a lot of overtime which made their yearly gross pretty large though. They did a lot of what they called "dead heading", which as I understood it was after they had completed their trip they were transported back to their home. This was "dead heading". They were paid for this also which added quite a bit to their pay. dbrown20

Yea Brownie you're right about the OT, however 90-100k is not unusual for semi-skilled labour in the Oil patch in Alberta and BC. Western Canada isn't OK.

[wudwoker51]

Here's some quotes from Ike that pretty much sums up the modern day Republican't party. " Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." " If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power." Now that is a republican that I could support, what a visionary!

[Orgnizdlbr]

I'm not an economist, but what I mean is make setting up shop here in the US and staying here more lucrative. Businesses are taxed to death to alleviate the tax burden on individuals (property and income). If we cut out, or at least reform the welfare system, ANd start making the Government accountable for it's spending, there would be flexibility to give those tax incentives. Look, I don't care who fixes the problem, I just wish someone would try.
Here in NJ, we're in deep shit. We are WAY over taxed, welfare is climbing, the politians are blatantly corrupt, and nothing is being done to fix it. Maybe I'm more passionate about this effects me directly. I just can't take anymore of it, and the republicans seem to be a better choice, thats all. I can't actually say they're any better or worse.

Dave, it was a Republican President that said sending jobs overseas is good for the American economy, George W...... Generally, when Republicans speak of making a business friendly economy their talking about no regulation. Now lets talk about how that might effect you living and working in New Jersey. Lets say there was no BPU, no NJRPA, no NJDCA, and Exelon wanted to aquire PSE&G. Where would you, the ratepayer, the taxpayer, and the employee be if those regulatory bodies did not exist?

[Orgnizdlbr]

Hey OL, let me ask you something. Do you think that the cost of union labor had anything to do with the reason why America 's manufacturing sector has dried up? I don't want to be a hypocrit, because I enjoy the perks of being a union member, but could it actually be possible that if there were more incentives(tax wise) for manufacturing to remain here, it would have? It's hard to blame the owner of the widget factory for going to Guatamala, where labor is $.70 an hour, instead of staying here where union labor is $14 an hour. Why would he? If the government offered up tax breaks for businesses, which Republicans like to do, the widget factory might still be here, along with a bunch of union jobs. See what I'm getting at? The Dems will scream to their constituents that the Republicans only care about business and not about them. The Republicans will scream back that the Dems just want to "tax and spend", etc. Meanwhile, all our jobs are running out the back door because these assholes we elect are too busy watching themselves on TV and listening to their own soundbites. It's too easy to just point a finger at a particular President and blame all our problems on him because he's the current schmuck in office.

Dave, reason number one for staying here is that they are American. How does an employer compete with a wage disparity of lets take your example $.70 an hour compared to $14.00 an hour?? The fact, Dave is the tracks are greased for industry to leave by the party you say treats business better.

You cant blame it all on Union Labor Dave, mismanagement has had a huge impact on manufacturing, along with legacy costs. US manufacturing firms are competing with overseas companies who provide no H/C benefits, no Pension benefits, and no retiree H/C. Is that the direction we want for our nation?? A nation of haves and have nots?? Thats where we are heading boys.....

[Dave@PSE&G]

Dave, you got to get your head out of your ass. Oh and by the way, you are a hypocrite.

Cheney a lineman!!!!!!! He wouldn't make a pimple on the good lineman's ass.

If "hypocrite" is the worst thing someone calls me in my lifetime, I guess I am getting off easy. Thanks for the kind words.:)

[Dave@PSE&G]

Dave, reason number one for staying here is that they are American. How does an employer compete with a wage disparity of lets take your example $.70 an hour compared to $14.00 an hour?? The fact, Dave is the tracks are greased for industry to leave by the party you say treats business better.

You cant blame it all on Union Labor Dave, mismanagement has had a huge impact on manufacturing, along with legacy costs. US manufacturing firms are competing with overseas companies who provide no H/C benefits, no Pension benefits, and no retiree H/C. Is that the direction we want for our nation?? A nation of haves and have nots?? Thats where we are heading boys.....

I'm not laying any blame on Labor. The unions are what the unions are. There should be incentives to offset the difference in labor costs. There is no chance of bridging the gap between $.70 and $14.00, but after deducting what the cost of moving and re-tooling is, the gap must be much closer. I don't know, I guess I don't know shit about industry. I'm just tired of a government that holds up the leeches that won't stand on their own. That's "won't stand", not "can't stand".

[Dave@PSE&G]

Here's some quotes from Ike that pretty much sums up the modern day Republican't party. " Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." " If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power." Now that is a republican that I could support, what a visionary!
Yeah, sure. The system still WORKED when Ike was alive. No cheats, no deadbeats, etc. You had to work to get your assistance. Companies wouldn't dare move overseas, because no one would buy their products if they did. The country today is so diluted with fuzzy little foriegners who have their own agenda's. What agenda's? They're on a mission to turn America into their own version of the dirt floor shithole that they came from. There is barely a trace of Americanism anymore, and the few people who have it are too afraid to show it, because they'd be a RACIST. Wake up, brother. America in 2007 is nothing like the America from 1957. Your arguement is apples to oranges.

[wudwoker51]

Dave, I wasn't comparing 2007 to 1957, just words of a republican (elected)President from 50 yrs. ago so you could compare them to the mubbled-jumbled BS that you hear from a modern republican't (selected) president. I like to read not only the history of our great country but that of the entire world. There has been some extrordinary leaders without whom I doubt we would even be having this conversation. And on the other hand there has been unbelievable evil, stupidity and greed. If you don't pay attention to the past and learn from the mistakes that where made, then you are bound to repeat those same mistakes and if that continues to occur, God help us all. I certainly do not mean that we should live in the past though so here's some more Ike-isms "Neither a wise man or a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him." And if he could hear Dubya today he would probably say " In his case, there seems to be no final answer to the question ' How stupid can you get?"

[PA BEN]

Bush is about the stupidist president we have ever had.

THe Republicans are trying their hardest to give the White House to the Democrats. dbrown20

Quote 1: Remember Jimmy Carter?
Quote 2: The Demo.'s just went against there Campaign promise and are trying to create the largest tax increase in history, 9 billion.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Quote 1: Remember Jimmy Carter?
Quote 2: The Demo.'s just went against there Campaign promise and are trying to create the largest tax increase in history, 9 billion.

This should come as no surprise. it's going to take a lot of scratch to pay down our outstanding debt(yeah Battman, I know. Bush and his war.) and pay for a gaggle of new shit. I wish there was a magic button that someone could push to wake politicians up. I would guess that everyone who posts here is/was working middle class. Does anyone purposely and regularly spend more money than they make? I didn't think so. How is it that we have a government that acts as our representitive to the world but at the same time acts nothing like us?

[Dave@PSE&G]

Dave, I wasn't comparing 2007 to 1957, just words of a republican (elected)President from 50 yrs. ago so you could compare them to the mubbled-jumbled BS that you hear from a modern republican't (selected) president. I like to read not only the history of our great country but that of the entire world. There has been some extrordinary leaders without whom I doubt we would even be having this conversation. And on the other hand there has been unbelievable evil, stupidity and greed. If you don't pay attention to the past and learn from the mistakes that where made, then you are bound to repeat those same mistakes and if that continues to occur, God help us all. I certainly do not mean that we should live in the past though so here's some more Ike-isms "Neither a wise man or a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him." And if he could hear Dubya today he would probably say " In his case, there seems to be no final answer to the question ' How stupid can you get?"
I hear you. We make the same mistakes over and over. Here in NJ, it's the same shit every 4 years. Promises made, promises forgotten. We're out of cash? We'll just tax 'em some more. It's nuts.
I seriously doubt that there is a single person in Washington with a shread of integrity anymore. On either side of the aisle. I know it sounds cliche, but they're all crooks. And the masses vote for the guy with the best bullshit story. On all levels of Government. I have said for years that if you capped Senators and Congressmen's salaries @$50,000 a year with NO perks (limos, lunches, etc) and a 1 term service limit, you'd weed out the parasites. They'd move into the private sector, where they'd be tried and jailed if they attempted the bullshit stunts that they pull now. Maybe then we'd actually get men and women in office who were more interested in helping us all then they are in helping themselves.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Quote 1: Remember Jimmy Carter?
Quote 2: The Demo.'s just went against there Campaign promise and are trying to create the largest tax increase in history, 9 billion.

Cumulative estimated cost of the war as of 2007. $463 Billion

Additional cost of the war come 2008. $170 Billion

So, let me pose this question, for those who advocate the war in Iraq, do you advocate paying for it?

[PA BEN]

Cumulative estimated cost of the war as of 2007. $463 Billion

Additional cost of the war come 2008. $170 Billion

So, let me pose this question, for those who advocate the war in Iraq, do you advocate paying for it?

Ha the War, it always boils down to the war. I’m a Vet, when 911 happened I wanted to join the fight. But I’m too old. We have a total volunteer military not a draft like Vietnam. When you join the military you might have to fight in a war it’s not a club. Fighting the terrorists over there not here. Yes it hasn’t gone as well as “we” would like to see it, but witch war has? That’s why we say war is hell. We do need to take better care of our war vets. What no one is looking at is what happens after the big battle? No one talks about how long we occupied Germany and how many men we lost after we won. What about Japan? I have a friend who was part of the occupation force in Japan and was shot by a sniper in the gut. And remember what happened in Vietnam when we left, the killing fields. Now that we are there do we cut and run or stay and fight terror over there? This is the million dollar question. The war is one big part of the pie. I for one hope our leaders; Democrats and Republicans do the best thing for our Country.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Ha the War, it always boils down to the war. I’m a Vet, when 911 happened I wanted to join the fight. But I’m too old. We have a total volunteer military not a draft like Vietnam. When you join the military you might have to fight in a war it’s not a club. Fighting the terrorists over there not here. Yes it hasn’t gone as well as “we” would like to see it, but witch war has? That’s why we say war is hell. We do need to take better care of our war vets. What no one is looking at is what happens after the big battle? No one talks about how long we occupied Germany and how many men we lost after we won. What about Japan? I have a friend who was part of the occupation force in Japan and was shot by a sniper in the gut. And remember what happened in Vietnam when we left, the killing fields. Now that we are there do we cut and run or stay and fight terror over there? This is the million dollar question. The war is one big part of the pie. I for one hope our leaders; Democrats and Republicans do the best thing for our Country.
You're right Ben, but I doubt that our "leaders" have the stomach to do what will cost them precious votes. Let's take our ball and go home. Then the terrorists won't bother us anymore. Yeah, we'll see...

[Orgnizdlbr]

Ha the War, it always boils down to the war. I’m a Vet, when 911 happened I wanted to join the fight. But I’m too old. We have a total volunteer military not a draft like Vietnam. When you join the military you might have to fight in a war it’s not a club. Fighting the terrorists over there not here. Yes it hasn’t gone as well as “we” would like to see it, but witch war has? That’s why we say war is hell. We do need to take better care of our war vets. What no one is looking at is what happens after the big battle? No one talks about how long we occupied Germany and how many men we lost after we won. What about Japan? I have a friend who was part of the occupation force in Japan and was shot by a sniper in the gut. And remember what happened in Vietnam when we left, the killing fields. Now that we are there do we cut and run or stay and fight terror over there? This is the million dollar question. The war is one big part of the pie. I for one hope our leaders; Democrats and Republicans do the best thing for our Country.

?????

PA, I dont advocate a cut and run policy, lets get that out of the way first and foremost.

My question dealt with the economic impact of the war. Are we as Americans willing to pay the cost, it is as simple as that. I am willing, as a taxpayer to pay the frieght, the $64,000 question is how many Americans feel the same. When the Nation commits to war, right or wrong, it needs for the burden to be shared by ALL AMERiCANS, not just the military. If it means raising my taxes to do so, so be it. I dont know anything of the particulars involving the Dems. $ 9 billion tax hike, but some of the funds appropriated need to fund the war. If we dont pay for it now, we will saddle our children and grandchildren with the dept incurred.

[Dave@PSE&G]

?????

PA, I dont advocate a cut and run policy, lets get that out of the way first and foremost.

My question dealt with the economic impact of the war. Are we as Americans willing to pay the cost, it is as simple as that. I am willing, as a taxpayer to pay the frieght, the $64,000 question is how many Americans feel the same. When the Nation commits to war, right or wrong, it needs for the burden to be shared by ALL AMERiCANS, not just the military. If it means raising my taxes to do so, so be it. I dont know anything of the particulars involving the Dems. $ 9 billion tax hike, but some of the funds appropriated need to fund the war. If we dont pay for it now, we will saddle our children and grandchildren with the dept incurred.
OL, you would accept MORE taxes? Do you work here and live in PA? :D

[Orgnizdlbr]

OL, you would accept MORE taxes? Do you work here and live in PA? :D

LOL, I live in Jersey like you do....I think you get the point I am attempting to make.

[Orgnizdlbr]

The hell with the money. Would you except a DRAFT???
Why should .001% of Americans defend this country????

If you back the war then put your children at risk.

As long as the fight is by so few risking thier lives and limbs it is OK with the Chickhawks.

George P. Bush just joined the military. You can bet your ass he will not get close to Iraq.

Steve, the overall point of my post was to say that very few of our nation bears the brunt of this war effort. It is not only the military aspect, it is the TOTAL COST OF WAR, that means the war in totality, the economic, human, and veteran issues, to name a few. When a nation is commited to war by the nation's leaders, it is incumbant on those leaders to commit the WHOLE NATION to war, in all aspects and efforts.

BTW, I was not an advocate of this war Steve, but I am of th view that the war has been mishandled. To cut and run IMHO, would leave a vacuum that would expose the region to further degradation at a risk to our national security.

[Dave@PSE&G]

LOL, I live in Jersey like you do....I think you get the point I am attempting to make.

Yeah, I do. I'm just being a sarcastic a-hole. I am in agreement that to cut and run would weaken our national security, as well as embolden the forces we're trying to overcome. Is that the same thing? I dunno...

[PA BEN]

?????

PA, I dont advocate a cut and run policy, lets get that out of the way first and foremost.

My question dealt with the economic impact of the war. Are we as Americans willing to pay the cost, it is as simple as that. I am willing, as a taxpayer to pay the frieght, the $64,000 question is how many Americans feel the same. When the Nation commits to war, right or wrong, it needs for the burden to be shared by ALL AMERiCANS, not just the military. If it means raising my taxes to do so, so be it. I dont know anything of the particulars involving the Dems. $ 9 billion tax hike, but some of the funds appropriated need to fund the war. If we dont pay for it now, we will saddle our children and grandchildren with the dept incurred.

Why can't our Goverment cut spending? Welfare, we could start a new thread with this one. Pork barrel spending. If our Government would cut spending on projects that don’t mean a hill of beans the Government will have more money. We are asked to pay, pay and pay some more. But when it comes to cuts in Government spending well we all know the answer to that one. O by the way our great Governor and Democrats in control here in my State just passed a new “TAX” All internet and catalogs sales are taxed now. Gas is 2.99 a gl for regular. On problem we will pay, pay and pay some more. :mad:

[Dave@PSE&G]

Why can't our Goverment cut spending? Welfare, we could start a new thread with this one. Pork barrel spending. If our Government would cut spending on projects that don’t mean a hill of beans the Government will have more money. We are asked to pay, pay and pay some more. But when it comes to cuts in Government spending well we all know the answer to that one. O by the way our great Governor and Democrats in control here in my State just passed a new “TAX” All internet and catalogs sales are taxed now. Gas is 2.99 a gl for regular. On problem we will pay, pay and pay some more. :mad:

That's a good idea. I'll start that thread myself.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Why can't our Goverment cut spending? Welfare, we could start a new thread with this one. Pork barrel spending. If our Government would cut spending on projects that don’t mean a hill of beans the Government will have more money. We are asked to pay, pay and pay some more. But when it comes to cuts in Government spending well we all know the answer to that one. O by the way our great Governor and Democrats in control here in my State just passed a new “TAX” All internet and catalogs sales are taxed now. Gas is 2.99 a gl for regular. On problem we will pay, pay and pay some more. :mad:


Well, you say to cut welfare, I suppose that is a start. But allow me to start some other place, you see, there are some people in this nation who truely need assistance. Yes there are certainly those that bleed the system and milk the working taxpayer, those people are scum. But I would suggest, as a starting point, to look outside of our borders,how many nations do we send billions of $$$ to. How many of those nations are grateful and will they ever repay? How many of those foriegn governments do well bankroll, and how many of them in reality hate our guts. Those are the places to start looking at, we give away Billions and get squat for it.....

[PA BEN]

How many of those nations are grateful and will they ever repay? How many of those foriegn governments do well bankroll, and how many of them in reality hate our guts. Those are the places to start looking at, we give away Billions and get squat for it.....

Amen well said.
How about the women who is on welfare with kids, make them work in Government run day cares for the working women who needs to work and can’t afford day care? What about those people on welfare, mowing laws in City parks, picking up garbage on the streets. If they have to work for there money maybe they will get a real job. If you don’t work you don’t eat.

[CenterPointEX]

Well, you say to cut welfare, I suppose that is a start. But allow me to start some other place, you see, there are some people in this nation who truely need assistance. Yes there are certainly those that bleed the system and milk the working taxpayer, those people are scum. But I would suggest, as a starting point, to look outside of our borders,how many nations do we send billions of $$$ to. How many of those nations are grateful and will they ever repay? How many of those foriegn governments do well bankroll, and how many of them in reality hate our guts. Those are the places to start looking at, we give away Billions and get squat for it.....
The Christian Church in Africa is sending missionaries to the United States? Talk about turn around!

[Dave@PSE&G]

Well, you say to cut welfare, I suppose that is a start. But allow me to start some other place, you see, there are some people in this nation who truely need assistance. Yes there are certainly those that bleed the system and milk the working taxpayer, those people are scum. But I would suggest, as a starting point, to look outside of our borders,how many nations do we send billions of $$$ to. How many of those nations are grateful and will they ever repay? How many of those foriegn governments do well bankroll, and how many of them in reality hate our guts. Those are the places to start looking at, we give away Billions and get squat for it.....
Excellent point!! How can we send billions of $$ overseas when there are people in this country eating out of dumpsters and living under bridges. I know I sound like a Democrat, but forget that. I'm just a human being who's grateful for his lot in life and it saddens me when I have to explain to my kid why people have to live like that.

[Dave@PSE&G]

The Christian Church in Africa is sending missionaries to the United States? Talk about turn around!

What's that about?

[dbrown20]

Here's some quotes from Ike that pretty much sums up the modern day Republican't party. " Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." " If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power." Now that is a republican that I could support, what a visionary!

"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice." Dwight D. Eisenhower.