Pike????

[TXsplitbolt]

Hey can some tell me about Pike ????

[adamr_41]

I worked for em for about 5 yr. Good company as long as you get with a good forman and crew who knows what is going on. Which is getting few and far between.

[tramp67]

http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=3528
Check out this article, it is typical of the way Pike operates.

[dbrown20]

there is any way you can go with a Union outfit, don't even go to Pike. There is a lady who used to post on here, whose son was killed in West Virginia working for them. Talk to her. She is very bitter. dbrown20

[NJlineman55]

I agree that accidents happen everywhere, but you cant deny from the countless stories that have been told on this site and have been told personally that Pike puts many of their hands in shitty situations. You want to go work for $19 an hour for a company like them be my guest, but I would never do linework for chump wages like that. Besides that their push for production and numbers will only get more an more people hurt.

[electric squirrel]

Pike is a GREAT place to work ,,,,,,,,, if you like $17.00 bucks an hour and the faint aroma of cheese!!!!!!!! E.S.:cool:

[Mike-E]

Pike is a GREAT place to work ,,,,,,,,, if you like $17.00 bucks an hour and the faint aroma of cheese!!!!!!!! E.S.:cool:

I heard they provide all the ointment you could ever need;)

[powerhotdog]

I heard their new hire package contains vaseline..Any truth?

[NJlineman55]

I guess you love the taste of dick sandwiches the way you rant and rave about the non union line companies like Pike. Typical suck job that licks the balls of his boss. Union or not there are plenty of guys like you around. Suck a dick up till ya hickup. Last Pike former employee I worked was a decent hand but the money he was making for them was a joke. Call them and ask they will tell you or maybe give you a bullshit number until you get there. Good luck being a Rat!!

[scammy]

we are all doing the same thing ,,companys are trying to get more for less go back and read my thread (gunshots and cops) ,,,I work for dayton power and light ,we have contractors on property all the time , they are good men , as I said before,,no one controlls thier future, these apes that are blowing smoke out of thier ass ,dont know jack ,,,,,,,,,scammy,,,,,,,,,,,as for nj lineman put your disco balls were yours should be,,,,scammy

[tramp67]

Hay splitbolt,
Don't pay the union kids no mind. They just hate anything that isn't union.

Even though Linemen are just a bastard child, second thought, to the ibew. It's run by narrowbacks and office workers nowdays. Sad situation that the LINEMEN, that Started the ibew, are now barely a pimple on its ass.:mad:

Check around, go talk to Pike. Oh, and don't believe the wages for Journeyman that the union kids were talkin either.:D

Pike's a great place to work if you want to make journeyman wages (Pike's) after a week's experience in linework. The IBEW has real training, and once you complete your apprenticeship, you can go work anywhere. Sorry, Swamp, but many of the Union locals are either inside (narrowbacks) or outside (linemen), not both. There's 40 different classifications represented by the many IBEW locals, from cable splicers to instrument techs to tree trimmers to power plant operators to utility office workers, and most of the time, the negotiated agreements are completely separate from various classifications. There's close to a thousand Union halls across the country representing the various classifications.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Pike's a great place to work if you want to make journeyman wages (Pike's) after a week's experience in linework. The IBEW has real training, and once you complete your apprenticeship, you can go work anywhere. Sorry, Swamp, but many of the Union locals are either inside (narrowbacks) or outside (linemen), not both. There's 40 different classifications represented by the many IBEW locals, from cable splicers to instrument techs to tree trimmers to power plant operators to utility office workers, and most of the time, the negotiated agreements are completely separate from various classifications. There's close to a thousand Union halls across the country representing the various classifications.

Someone who knows what they're talking!!!!

[NJlineman55]

we are all doing the same thing ,,companys are trying to get more for less go back and read my thread (gunshots and cops) ,,,I work for dayton power and light ,we have contractors on property all the time , they are good men , as I said before,,no one controlls thier future, these apes that are blowing smoke out of thier ass ,dont know jack ,,,,,,,,,scammy,,,,,,,,,,,as for nj lineman put your disco balls were yours should be,,,,scammy

Maybe because Im from the NYC area where unions are still very strong but there is nothing looked down at to me and all my friends that are union plumbers, carpenters and tin knockers then a rat or a scab. I understand that unfortunatly this is not the norm in linework and different areas of this nation and I think it is a shame. When I work next to a guy out of an IBEW hall I know what his training is and can be more comfortable with him then some rat that is told hes a lineman after a year working for Pike. Maybe the locals that have Pike and other rats in their territory should do like the narrowbacks do here in NJ/NY and put a big inflated rat in front of their jobs!!

www.samueljohnson.com/blog/images/large040825.jpg

[Space]

I have worked union and non union contractors all my life , they are TIT for Tat . I worked out of a Bronco bucket once for a union contractor that when set up on the side of hill you had to tie it off to the pole so it wouldn't swing back down the hill . I worked for another Union contractor that was given the choice of either replace all this junk with new equipment or lose the contract , even our snaps where so worn out you had to keep beating them flat with a hammer to work with them . After we got the new equipment we where the highest work out put of Va. Power contractors in the western district of Blueridge for 5 consecutive years with no accidents .
On the other hand I have worked with non union contractors that where eat up with the same problems , even had a job shut down because even after given the choice of new equipment they refused and lost the contract .
Employees get killed on Union and non Union jobs all the time , it goes with the job . And every one of them where because of equipment failure or it didn't seem that hazordous at the time , evryone one of them .
I have worked for Pike in distributiion and to all of the companies I have worked with , thier equipment is as good as any , usually well maintained .
Trouble with a lot Linemen Union and non , is they build it in thier minds , you know , the type that are told today we are cutting over and start whinning at 5 o'clock cause they want to go home .
Sorry for the rant , but yeah they are a good company to work for and around here they give about 28.00-31.00 per hour for 1st class and pay motel room .
Good luck and your safety is your responsibility , and that is a settled fact . Space

[TXsplitbolt]

Well I am taking the job with Pike i have done line work for 19years so im the Foreman with them and the pay is the best i have ever made 27.00 in Texas is real good and i have my own crew. So thanks for all your post some of them helped. But the best part is I will be home at night!!!

[racinsprintz10]

brainwashed "young" union kid? Really? I figured with all your experience you would know that their is not a contractor in the world that gives a shit about a lineman. We are all just numbers. I am obviously brainwashed too in my belief that it there is strength in collective bargaining. Oh well, i dont have time to sit here and debate I'm still working on investing my 200,000+ my union wages earned me last year.

[lineman641]

.
Employees get killed on Union and non Union jobs all the time , it goes with the job . And every one of them where because of equipment failure or it didn't seem that hazordous at the time , evryone one of them .

that has got to be the most ignorant statement i have seen on this site in a long time. i bet men are just lining up to get on your crew. to say or believe that to be true is just stupid.

[KingRat]

After reading most of the posts on this site I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't go to work for one of the thousands of locals across this great country- with so many qualified and trained people. The best money, equip, benifits,etc. etc. etc.-when I was a member of the IBEW they didn't own any line trucks or any equip. as far as that goes-training is done by your outside contractor not by the local-A lineman can tell another just by working next to him within a short amount of time-Without contractors your training program wouldn't exist Union or Non, thats a fact-Just tell me where that blow-up rat is, Ikind of like that- I'm not interested in buying it, I'm going to steal it-

[racinsprintz10]

you are absolutely correct, most of the training is done OTJ by qualified lineman. However, NECA and the IBEW have established the JATC to ensure an apprentice learns every aspect of the trade to become a journeyman. This apprenticeship is run in conjunction with class work and in some programs a "camp" of sorts to further education. A combination of these three along with a stress on safety regulation and guidelines makes the JATC a true apprenticeship program. In no way do I feel a non-union worker is inferior after spending time in the trade, just simply misguided. I've listened to swamprat bad mouth young hands on this board for months and it just rubs me the wrong way. I am a second generation union hand (contractor) that takes great pride in my job and work. I am not ate up with my job but during work hours I due the best that I can and realize I have alot to learn. Hell, swamp it would be an honor for you to show me a few tricks. This trade has changed drastically in the last 20 years, however, there are still young hands giving it all they have to continue the trade. Its not all about dollar signs to all of us. I'd like to believe my upbringing and knowledge of the trade before I started would let me be about the money.

[NJlineman55]

After reading most of the posts on this site I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't go to work for one of the thousands of locals across this great country- with so many qualified and trained people. The best money, equip, benifits,etc. etc. etc.-when I was a member of the IBEW they didn't own any line trucks or any equip. as far as that goes-training is done by your outside contractor not by the local-A lineman can tell another just by working next to him within a short amount of time-Without contractors your training program wouldn't exist Union or Non, thats a fact-Just tell me where that blow-up rat is, Ikind of like that- I'm not interested in buying it, I'm going to steal it-

Since you dont have anything in your proflie I have no idea where you are from but you can up here and try to steal one anytime you want. I wish you luck!;)

[KingRat]

PIKE has some good hands,I've watched them in different states. I'm also familiar with your NECA training and boot camp- You have made improvements in the last few years. Swamp has some good points along with a few others on this site.Would be nice to get more lineman involved. So NJ I am right up the street from you, how about a location on that big Critter or is it in the box right now- you will recognize me with the rat eatin a piece of GREEN cheese on the back of my sweatshirt-Let the games begin:D

[Space]

"that has got to be the most ignorant statement i have seen on this site in a long time. i bet men are just lining up to get on your crew. to say or believe that to be true is just stupid."

__________________


Then if equipment or lack of concern for the hazard at hand is not the cause of deaths , then it must be the fickled finger of fate ?
Is that what your saying ?

[catnhat]

go work for Pike if you want to. They've got inexperienced lineman( if you want to call them that) gloving 46KV with class 3 rubber and no training. Witnessed the crew with the strap jack hooked with no insulating link while working the 46. Couldn't watch for long as I didn't want to witness a fatality. Anyway, Pike has no problem with their guys doing this; guess they're are plenty waiting to replace them.

[adamr_41]

go work for Pike if you want to. They've got inexperienced lineman( if you want to call them that) gloving 46KV with class 3 rubber and no training. Witnessed the crew with the strap jack hooked with no insulating link while working the 46. Couldn't watch for long as I didn't want to witness a fatality. Anyway, Pike has no problem with their guys doing this; guess they're are plenty waiting to replace them.

You should have stepped in and said something to the crew or got into contact with somebody in a higher position such as a company supervisor or OSHA. You could save a life.

[tramp67]

After reading most of the posts on this site I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't go to work for one of the thousands of locals across this great country- with so many qualified and trained people. The best money, equip, benifits,etc. etc. etc.-when I was a member of the IBEW they didn't own any line trucks or any equip. as far as that goes-training is done by your outside contractor not by the local-A lineman can tell another just by working next to him within a short amount of time-Without contractors your training program wouldn't exist Union or Non, thats a fact-Just tell me where that blow-up rat is, Ikind of like that- I'm not interested in buying it, I'm going to steal it-

The IBEW is the labor force for the NECA contractors. The contractors provide the equipment needed for the job, the IBEW provides the contractors with the manpower to complete the job. Pay, benefits, work rules are negotiated through COLLECTIVE bargaining between IBEW and NECA representatives in each Local. What happens if your rat contractor decides to cut your pay so they don't lose money on a job they bid wrong, or what happens if you and your contractor don't see eye to eye on how much you should kick in for his new yacht? Do you have any kind of pension or retirement program, any health insurance benefits? If so, who pays for it? In the Union world, any disputes that cannot be settled through your foreman or general foreman will be handled by your Union representative, in accordance with the collective bargaining agreement, which is a legally binding contract. Pay scale is defined in this agreement. Pension, retirement, health insurance benefits are paid by the contractor, for the most part, depending on Local agreements. If we feel a contractor is unsafe, a pain in the ass to work for, or we just plain don't want to work for them anymore, down to the hall we go and off to another contractor without missing a beat as far as insurance, retirement, etc. goes. Can you leave Pike and go work for Rats R Us without having to start over?
Things differ, of course, in the utility end of the IBEW, but I would guess it is much easier moving from one IBEW represented utility to another than it is in the non-union utility world.

[Viperexaf]

tramp let me ask ya something bro, i tried to get into the local here in texas, passed their so called class A lineman's test and they still didn't want to bring me in as a journeyman due to lack of transmission experience, but what caught me off guard is that, they had told me that texas has a right to work program, bottom line anyone union or not can go to the hall and sign the books and if something does come up then they can't strike even if they wanted to. Now here's my question, if the pay scale is gonna be the same union or not and the union is not able to go on strike if it called for it, then what good would it be to even be in the union in these states that has right to work programs? I'm not tryin to disrespect, just maybe gettin a grip as to what to do in the right to work states that the union sends people out on regardless of membership or not.

[tramp67]

tramp let me ask ya something bro, i tried to get into the local here in texas, passed their so called class A lineman's test and they still didn't want to bring me in as a journeyman due to lack of transmission experience, but what caught me off guard is that, they had told me that texas has a right to work program, bottom line anyone union or not can go to the hall and sign the books and if something does come up then they can't strike even if they wanted to. Now here's my question, if the pay scale is gonna be the same union or not and the union is not able to go on strike if it called for it, then what good would it be to even be in the union in these states that has right to work programs? I'm not tryin to disrespect, just maybe gettin a grip as to what to do in the right to work states that the union sends people out on regardless of membership or not.

First, the strike issue. Every Local that I have had the pleasure of working in has had a no strike/lockout clause in their agreement. This basically reiterates that this is a mutually agreed upon legal contract between the IBEW (linemen) and NECA (contractors). All the work rules, working conditions, pay and benefits, methods of settling disputes, etc. are all spelled out in the agreement and both the IBEW and NECA have agreed to follow everything outlined. This clause is always "for the duration of the contract", meaning that, if a new contract has not been negotiated and agreed upon by the end of the current contract, there is always the possibility of a strike after that, but I think the odds of that happening are very low in the present times.
The Union Hall has the responsibility of providing the contractors with the necessary manpower needed for the various projects that are going on. Most, if not all, Locals use a referral system consisting of 4 categories. These are usually called Book 1, Book 2, Book 3, Book 4. The Hall sends out people from Book 1 in the order they signed in, when that list is exhausted, they go to Book 2, and so forth. Book 1 is reserved for tested linemen who are members of that Local, Book 2 is for tested linemen who are members of any other Local, Book 3 is for people "outside of the classification" who reside within that Local's geographic jurisdiction, Book 4 is for people "outside of the classification" who reside outside of the Local's geographic jurisdiction. "Outside of the classification" includes inside wiremen, "white ticket" linemen, and anyone else that the Union Local decides would be suitable for referral to the contractor. When a contractor needs to start reducing their workforce for whatever reason, they are supposed to lay people off in the reverse order, ie. Book 4, Book 3,.... Even if you are not a member of the IBEW, you would still be required to pay working dues to the Hall, just as everyone else does. It is something called "fair share", which basically means that since you are reaping the benefits that the IBEW has negotiated, you should also be contributing to the costs of operating the IBEW organization.
I think this is a reasonably accurate explanation to your questions, anyone else out there care to add anything or correct any of my response?:cool:

[Space]

Union or non Union , there are ratty assed men in either . When I was working the Waylands we sent more than one card holding slob down the road slinging snot and counting insulators .
Same on non union jobs , if someone worked with us and was obviously not up to snuff , we would give the foreman a choice of 86ing his ass or putting him hand digging so he would quit .
As I said , your safety is your responsibility , also would like to mention that it is our responsiblity to look out for our fellow workers . If you see someone getting wreckless , then tell them , if that don't work , then go to your foreman , it's not being a rat in these circustances , just common sense .
Space .

[Stinger]

Swamp, what is the problem with what tramp posted. I have only been a union hand for about 4 years coming over from the non-union side, but what he said is absolutley true. I know for fact that on the non-union side of the house in some companies your rate of pay is based on the suck ass system, not your ability. As swamp's statement states, at least in the union you make the same pay as the JL next you. If you move on for what ever reason, you do not miss a beat in your pay or benifiets. Yes, we may pay dues and assesments but it is pennies compared to what we receive in pay and benifiets. For that pay and benifiets not only does our local, but our employeer expects safe, quailty production. The latter however I beleive is the goal of most lineman, union or no-union, or at least i hope it is. I make no bones about being glad I am union and proud of it!! As far as King Rat goes, his non-union company is well respected in the new england area, I know some of the hands, and they are good people. Would i like to see them in the union, your dam skippy, but it is their choice to come over or not, and they know their more than welcome.

[dbrown20]

you once mentioned that you spent about a year in the Union. How about telling us of your experience in the Union? Were you treated unfairly? What made you decide to leave it? dbrown20

[lineman641]

:cool:
Union or non Union , there are ratty assed men in either . When I was working the Waylands we sent more than one card holding slob down the road slinging snot and counting insulators .
Same on non union jobs , if someone worked with us and was obviously not up to snuff , we would give the foreman a choice of 86ing his ass or putting him hand digging so he would quit .
As I said , your safety is your responsibility , also would like to mention that it is our responsiblity to look out for our fellow workers . If you see someone getting wreckless , then tell them , if that don't work , then go to your foreman , it's not being a rat in these circustances , just common sense .
Space .

Good post and that deserves a response to mine. You said “getting killed is part of the job”. No it is not. If the equipment is in such bad shape that someone will get hurt then it should not be used, I don’t care who you work for. As far as a hazardes situation, it should be recognized and something should be done to correct it. Most serious accidents are the result of not wearing your rubber gloves when we should be. “It’s not how you get into a bind its how you get out of it”. That comes with training, knowledge and experience. No job is so important that someone can get hurt or killed. I enjoy line work and my job but if it came to doing something that will get me or someone else hurt because it “has to be done “. I will walk away. I have seen the results of what happens when “the job must be done no matter what “. …I am not a fan of pike. Down here it seems the only one who has a clue is the guy in a pick up truck and he is in charge of 2 or 3 crews. On a bull gang there our only 2 “lineman “on the job. Sad because no one should be in a situation that they are not trained for or have the knowledge that it takes to do the job. That’s what it’s all about.

[Bigheadnc]

Pike comes from here in NC, where i'm from. They have a lot of the Duke energy contracts. Like anywhere, If you survive the politics and are well liked, you'll do good.


Goodluck splitbolt

[lineman641]

Pike comes from here in NC, where i'm from. They have a lot of the Duke energy contracts. Like anywhere, If you survive the politics and are well liked, you'll do good.


Goodluck splitbolt

exactly.....that is the differance. in 4-5 months you to can be a lineman and in charge of 2 or three crews maken the big bucks......but its not like anywhere!!

[racinsprintz10]

being well liked is the key to success there? I'll stick with competency and performance. I sure dont want to be hated on a job but I like sticking around cause im a good hand.

[catnhat]

Adam,
I did step in by calling our safety dept and pike's. Neither one wanted anything to do with it and later told me there was nothing wrong with what they were doing (gloving 46kv with class 3 equipment). The manager with my company went further by stating that he didn't know why it was an issue as his guys hot stick 115kv off the pole. He couldn't understand the differences in hot sticking and gloving. As for OSHA, we have been by management not to talk to any inspectors; just to call management out to the job.

[Space]

Lineman641 , apparently you misunderstood or I didn't say it right , what ever . But what I ment was it's a dangerous job and regaurdless of what we preach and do , there are always times when eguipment fails and sometimes it can happen to new equipment . The other cause is , people underestimating the hazard at hand , as you said someone should address or reconize it , but there will always be someone not wearing rubber when they should , or not using a stick when they should , grounds and so on . And from there we have deaths , not that the job requires them or we are to expect it on our jobs , but it happens and by this I am saying don't down a contractors men because of one crews screw up . While it is true the Presidents and so on of companies seem to care little about the employee , it doesn't mean all the men and crews of companies , Union or Non are like that . Good grief I shoulda kept my mouth shut , LOL . Anyhoot . just wanted to clear it up if I gave you the impression I was a non caring death defying idiot . Space

[Orgnizdlbr]

but there will always be someone not wearing rubber when they should , or not using a stick when they should , grounds and so on . And from there we have deaths , not that the job requires them or we are to expect it on our jobs , but it happens and by this I am saying don't down a contractors men because of one crews screw up . While it is true the Presidents and so on of companies seem to care little about.......


Space, I certainly hope that was stated tongue in cheek....but if it was'nt, that is a perspective on linework I would'nt have on my crew.....

[adamr_41]

Adam,
I did step in by calling our safety dept and pike's. Neither one wanted anything to do with it and later told me there was nothing wrong with what they were doing (gloving 46kv with class 3 equipment). The manager with my company went further by stating that he didn't know why it was an issue as his guys hot stick 115kv off the pole. He couldn't understand the differences in hot sticking and gloving. As for OSHA, we have been by management not to talk to any inspectors; just to call management out to the job.

Well I guess that you did all that you could do,
Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

[Space]

I don't know how else to spell it out , I don't condone these practices , but anyone that's not an ostrich knows it goes on .

[Viperexaf]

First, the strike issue. Every Local that I have had the pleasure of working in has had a no strike/lockout clause in their agreement. This basically reiterates that this is a mutually agreed upon legal contract between the IBEW (linemen) and NECA (contractors). All the work rules, working conditions, pay and benefits, methods of settling disputes, etc. are all spelled out in the agreement and both the IBEW and NECA have agreed to follow everything outlined. This clause is always "for the duration of the contract", meaning that, if a new contract has not been negotiated and agreed upon by the end of the current contract, there is always the possibility of a strike after that, but I think the odds of that happening are very low in the present times.
The Union Hall has the responsibility of providing the contractors with the necessary manpower needed for the various projects that are going on. Most, if not all, Locals use a referral system consisting of 4 categories. These are usually called Book 1, Book 2, Book 3, Book 4. The Hall sends out people from Book 1 in the order they signed in, when that list is exhausted, they go to Book 2, and so forth. Book 1 is reserved for tested linemen who are members of that Local, Book 2 is for tested linemen who are members of any other Local, Book 3 is for people "outside of the classification" who reside within that Local's geographic jurisdiction, Book 4 is for people "outside of the classification" who reside outside of the Local's geographic jurisdiction. "Outside of the classification" includes inside wiremen, "white ticket" linemen, and anyone else that the Union Local decides would be suitable for referral to the contractor. When a contractor needs to start reducing their workforce for whatever reason, they are supposed to lay people off in the reverse order, ie. Book 4, Book 3,.... Even if you are not a member of the IBEW, you would still be required to pay working dues to the Hall, just as everyone else does. It is something called "fair share", which basically means that since you are reaping the benefits that the IBEW has negotiated, you should also be contributing to the costs of operating the IBEW organization.
I think this is a reasonably accurate explanation to your questions, anyone else out there care to add anything or correct any of my response?:cool:
appreciate the info tramp

[tramp67]

appreciate the info tramp

Glad to be of help!:cool:

[tramp67]

Not much to tell mr. brown.

Joined up in, 74 I think it was....
Went to a Union meeting, did the "whole bit", "recommended", blah, blah, blah.... BUT... really liked what I heard. 1974, mind ya....

Well, anyway, make a long story short...
Didn't like what I saw and heard at union meetings...
Decided, I wasen't a group type mentality,... type of guy..:D

"Rat", just sorta "worked" for me, and my personality. :cool:

Hey, Swamp - unlike National Grid, as long as you're happy, we're happy!:p If I was in Florida, I might consider going rat as well....:eek:

[tolex42]

First, the strike issue. Every Local that I have had the pleasure of working in has had a no strike/lockout clause in their agreement. This basically reiterates that this is a mutually agreed upon legal contract between the IBEW (linemen) and NECA (contractors). All the work rules, working conditions, pay and benefits, methods of settling disputes, etc. are all spelled out in the agreement and both the IBEW and NECA have agreed to follow everything outlined. This clause is always "for the duration of the contract", meaning that, if a new contract has not been negotiated and agreed upon by the end of the current contract, there is always the possibility of a strike after that, but I think the odds of that happening are very low in the present times.
The Union Hall has the responsibility of providing the contractors with the necessary manpower needed for the various projects that are going on. Most, if not all, Locals use a referral system consisting of 4 categories. These are usually called Book 1, Book 2, Book 3, Book 4. The Hall sends out people from Book 1 in the order they signed in, when that list is exhausted, they go to Book 2, and so forth. Book 1 is reserved for tested linemen who are members of that Local, Book 2 is for tested linemen who are members of any other Local, Book 3 is for people "outside of the classification" who reside within that Local's geographic jurisdiction, Book 4 is for people "outside of the classification" who reside outside of the Local's geographic jurisdiction. "Outside of the classification" includes inside wiremen, "white ticket" linemen, and anyone else that the Union Local decides would be suitable for referral to the contractor. When a contractor needs to start reducing their workforce for whatever reason, they are supposed to lay people off in the reverse order, ie. Book 4, Book 3,.... Even if you are not a member of the IBEW, you would still be required to pay working dues to the Hall, just as everyone else does. It is something called "fair share", which basically means that since you are reaping the benefits that the IBEW has negotiated, you should also be contributing to the costs of operating the IBEW organization.
I think this is a reasonably accurate explanation to your questions, anyone else out there care to add anything or correct any of my response?:cool:


Almost all construction local unions in the IBEW contain a clause that requires binding arbitration to resolve disputes. The disputes may be over a grievance or the terms and conditions of a renegotiated contract. The arbitration board is known as the Council on Industrial Relations [CIR]. The CIR consist of five contractors who are members of NECA and five Local Union Business Managers. The parties in dispute, the contractor and the Union present their case before the CIR. The CIR then makes a decision on the dispute. Their decision is final and binding. Because of the CIR the IBEW/NECA electrical construction industry both Inside and Outside has been known for decades as the strikeless industry.

If there is a dispute between a nonunion company and the worker the outcome is usually "YOU'RE FIRED"

[Pootnaigle]

I kinda feel the need tospeak up here. I have been in the trade for 35plus years and have had occasion to work with both union and non union contractors on many occasions. I have seen excellent hands from both sides and unfortunately just as many who were pityful excuses by any standard. I worked as a UNION lineman and always will. As a Union lineman you know that your pole buddy has undergone some kind of training and testing. You will not become a Journeyman By any other means than the Apprenticeship program Or Passing a skills and knowledge test. This kinda assures us that our pole buddy has the neccessary knowledge to perform his or her work safely.( meaning he wont kill me from a span away) . Here the wages for a union man are better, Working conditions are better, and Advancement Opportunities are more equal. I have seen Non Union employers hire a 19 yr old journeyman.(Just when exactly did he start his apprenticeship When he was 15?) I have also seen many young go getters get hurt simply because they wern't well trained and tried to wing it thru. Didnt say they wernt good hands or cudda been jus said they were not as proficient as they should have been to be a Journeyman. And to Swamp I would say I respect your decision to be a "Rat" But it would never work for me I suspect you must have had a bad experience with corrupt union officials( and yes there are a few). and to say that all IBEW locals are run by narrowbacks is insane. All outside locals are run by Lineman oriented folks. When it comes right down to it I suppose one could build a 300 mile transmission line with highschool dropouts, But when youre gonna start workin stuff hot WOULD YOU wanna work with a beginner be led by one or hafta explain why his plan may be flawed every day of your life. Nope not me . Theres Lineman work and thers Journeyman Lineman work and because you can perform the first doesnt imply that you can perform the second. But yes there are some Non union contractors in both categories rite alongside the union guys. So for me It boils down to what do I know about my pole buddy( underwent years of training or Could have been running a convience store last year) simple choice.

[powerhotdog]

Poot, I agree with your statement,although I was a non union lineman who went thru a Kentucky state labor board accredited apprenticeship. Now joined Union took test and as they say on here I slayed the dragon.work a pole with me?

[tramp67]

Ya know Poot,
That 19 year old Journeyman shit, is really sorta hard to believe. I just can't believe that shit man. Maby 15 years ago.....

Naw man,
I wasen't sayin ibew Locals are run by narrowbacks....I was sayin, the percentage of Linemen in a local, I would bet, is less than 7 %.

Warehouse, meter readers, "office staff", engineerng, computer department, Dispatch, substation, Power service techs, Relay Dept, Survey Dept... Do I need to go on?

Ya "get my Drift"? :(
Linemen formed the IBEW. How about a Linemans Only Union? Sign my rat ass up....

And, as for,.."what do I know about my pole buddy?"

Give me a day...maby 2. While "I" lead. I'll know all I need to know. That's My Job.

The majority of the Locals covering Outside construction are STRICTLY Outside construction. If you ever get a chance to look at an IBEW tramp book, or on the IBEW website, it breaks down what classifications are represented by which Locals.
As far as the second part - give me a day, maybe two and I'll know all I need to know - I hear you, brother! That's the way I like to work things too. I want to know what my new pole buddy knows how to do and what their work habits are - it doesn't take too long to figure out, does it?:cool:

[Orgnizdlbr]

Ya know Poot,
That 19 year old Journeyman shit, is really sorta hard to believe. I just can't believe that shit man. Maby 15 years ago.....

Naw man,
I wasen't sayin ibew Locals are run by narrowbacks....I was sayin, the percentage of Linemen in a local, I would bet, is less than 7 %.

Warehouse, meter readers, "office staff", engineerng, computer department, Dispatch, substation, Power service techs, Relay Dept, Survey Dept... Do I need to go on?

Ya "get my Drift"? :(
Linemen formed the IBEW. How about a Linemans Only Union? Sign my rat ass up....

And, as for,.."what do I know about my pole buddy?"

Give me a day...maby 2. While "I" lead. I'll know all I need to know. That's My Job.

That may be true in the Utility sector, not the co I work for BTW, Lineman are the majority.

[EyeNut]

Ya know Poot,
That 19 year old Journeyman shit, is really sorta hard to believe. I just can't believe that shit man. Maby 15 years ago.....


Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Louisiana, and Arkansas must be 15 years behind the times then... It happens. There's also PLENTY of so-called journeymen out there that couldn't climb a step ladder much less a pole. In the union and out.

I've seen a foreman burnt because he didn't know a pothead from an elbow on underground. He was promoted to GF as soon as he was released from the burn unit.

Saw a 2nd year apprentice promoted to journeyman after his 3rd time knocking out a feeder due to neglegence.

Saw a piss-poor first year ape promoted to foreman 6 months later... Shall I go on?

They weren't Pike, but close enough. The workers in those areas jump to whoever has the contract anyway.

When contractors are short on positions in the contract, they "fill in" those spots with the lesser qualified. Been there, I know. I've worked some of the same contractors and that's just the sad truth. The workers shouldn't hold all the blame though. Shitty, money-grubbing management makes it happen.:mad:

[ExCajunRat]

I must concur with many of the posts here: there are disabling and fatal injuries, both union and non-union, all to iften in our industry. Does it matter that it was Pike, L. E. Meyers, FPL, or someone on an IBEW ticket? No!

Numerous books have been written on the "human factor"; no matter how much you train, preach, lecture, or discipline, ome people will CHOOSE to break the rules as soon as you turn your back.

I venture to say that for every person who as slammed Pike or any other numerous contractors there are an equal number of people who would likewise slam the very company these same people hold in high regard.

Lay off the rat, IBEW bs and realize we are all in this together.

[scammy]

right on man ,,, by the way ,,,,,got a little coonass in me ,,,,scammy

[EyeNut]

Cool post Eyenut, Welcome. I see it's your first post.

"They weren't Pike, but close enough."

Close enough,... like in,... Hand gernades and horse shoes?:D

I get your drift though, but check it out...

Contractors nowdays...Union and Non, are coming SO heavy under the safety gun, that things are "Seriously" getting better. I'm sure you can see that.

Sorry, there will always be "shit" like that in our trade. But, as long as the electrical system of the USA remains in the condition it is....there will be Contractors, who "shit and get", both union and non. And sometimes....
shit happens....

Course we only hear about the Rat contractors that have all these "safety problems".

FROM? Union boys....

Your profile says everything cept your age? Interesting ya don't want to let that be known. :cool:

Thanks for the welcome.

I said they were "close enough" to Pike because the linehands move to whoever has the local contract. The workers don't want to get too far from home in these parts. New companies get the contract, need workers, then don't have to look any farther than the departing company. Same guys, new shirt.

I too agree that things ARE getting better. I also agree that they will never be perfect and "shit" will happen as you say.

It's easy to turn a blind eye to either side. Some say the contracting world is shit and some say it is great. I'm just saying it's a little of both. Kinda like you're saying, it's the nature of the beast. "Shit and git" is an accurate statement...

Been a RAT my whole career. I've worked with good and bad hands, union and non-union. There's just as many good in one as the other. I do have to say that non-union contractors have more potential to get the bad ones--"shit and git", remember?

I missed the hide or unhide option on the age. It's no secret. Or maybe I'm a 15 year old kid--ya never know for sure in cyberspace I guess.

[EyeNut]

I must concur with many of the posts here: there are disabling and fatal injuries, both union and non-union, all to iften in our industry. Does it matter that it was Pike, L. E. Meyers, FPL, or someone on an IBEW ticket? No!

Numerous books have been written on the "human factor"; no matter how much you train, preach, lecture, or discipline, ome people will CHOOSE to break the rules as soon as you turn your back.

I venture to say that for every person who as slammed Pike or any other numerous contractors there are an equal number of people who would likewise slam the very company these same people hold in high regard.

Lay off the rat, IBEW bs and realize we are all in this together.

I couldn't agree with you more sir! We all "choose" our own fate. I wasn't slamming rats before. I was just saying I think Poot and Swamp are both seeing the parts they choose to.

IBEW, RAT, we've all got issues.

Personally, I think it has to do more with the way we are bringing up the young bucks these days. Bucket trucks, minimum covering--phases and grounded surfaces, and a lack of "respect" for how dangerous the trade can be are all contributing factors IMO.

All we can do is work to fix the things we have control over. And work to fix the thought process of those with control over everything else.

[Pootnaigle]

Originally Posted by Swamprat
Ya know Poot,
That 19 year old Journeyman shit, is really sorta hard to believe. I just can't believe that shit man. Maby 15 years ago.....

Naw man,
I wasen't sayin ibew Locals are run by narrowbacks....I was sayin, the percentage of Linemen in a local, I would bet, is less than 7 %.

Warehouse, meter readers, "office staff", engineerng, computer department, Dispatch, substation, Power service techs, Relay Dept, Survey Dept... Do I need to go on?


OK swamp It was in fact about 15 years ago that I saw that happen But I suspect it still does! Red Simpson came into my area and hired anybody that even professed to be a lineman of any kind ( Cable TV hands Telephone hands etc.) You get my drift In any case several of them got seriously hurt( I probably dont hafta tell you why)
Now on the union part of this deal Yes there are members in a utility union that aren't lineman and yes they have an equal vote on working contracts( and yes they kinda keep things screwed up for a lineman at that utility) But An Outside local Has only members comprised of the construction hands and they and they alone make the decisions about Thier contracts . I know this for a fact because I am a member of a local thatsupports both utility hands and construction hands. When any issue arrises for a vote concerning The construction side only " A" card" members are allowed to vote on it and likewise when issues arise concerning utility hands Then Only"BA" card holders are allowed to vote on those.The basic concept of the union is to better working conditions for EVERY member andUtility Lineman usually make a little less while clerks and EnG assistants make substansially more than they would on the outside. On the construction end They simply bargain for the lineman apprentise lineman and grunts ...... Unnerstand man?

[thrasher]

Swamp:
About two years ago right after hurricane Gaston flooded part of Richmond there was a C.W. Wright lineman killed. According to the paper he was a 20 year old journeyman with 2 years experience. The man went up an energized 19.9 kv single phase pole with no gloves because the groundman said he had heard on the radio it was dead (actually the WRONG line was grounded).
Remember people if you can't see the opening and the ground then treat it as hot.

[wudwoker51]

Having never worked for a non-union contractor like Pike I'm curious. I have heard that the wages are good and that they pay for motel rooms but what about healthcare, pension, safety and work rules etc. When it comes time for a raise how do you go about it? Why don't one of you southern boys enlighten me.

[Space]

#1 healthcare comes out of your on pocket .
#2 pension is optional in many different forms , usually after a year of employeement .
#3 I can't speak for Pike , but C.W. has a safety man who visits all crews on a pretty regular bases and to my knowledge pulls no punches for violations .
#4 Work rules are given in an employee safety manual when hired and are very specific . Example , if you or what you are working with is or is going to be within reaching distance of anything hot it has to be covered , hoses , blankets , what have you .
Same rules you work by , I have worked Union jobs so your B.S. about how much better it is won't fly with me if it did I'd be working far from home on a Union job .
Raises come the same way too .
Cost of living and you advance by how well you do and what you can do . Pay here is competetive with Union contractors and at times in the past I have known them to be somewhat above some Union contractors .
The crews we have here to my knowledge are not putting anyone out there with a job classifcation they don't deserve .
The biggest thing that pisses me off is we are no longer allowed to use explosives , now I gotta spend all day to catch my limit like you regulated Northern boys , LOL .
Space

[Pootnaigle]

If I have left the impression with any of you that Non union hands are less qualified than brothers I dont beleive that for one minute.Union allegences aside either youre a lineman or youre not.I've seen excellant hands on both sides.I do beleive that from a training aspect the union hands have a distinct advantage.There are always those who who have a quest for knowledge and take the time , trouble, and effort to learn outside of an organized training program.These are usually the guys that stand out.

[wudwoker51]

Healthcare out of pocket, optional pension program (funded solely by employee?), a safety program that PULLS NO PUNCHES, advancement and raises determined by employer based on knowledge, competitive pay (do you think that years of collective bargaining by union lineman have anything to do with that?) and the ability to work close to home because of the low unionization rate of the region in which I live. WOW:confused:

[Space]

"If I have left the impression with any of you that Non union hands are less qualified than brothers I dont beleive that for one minute."


Nothing of the sort here , was just having what I thought was a little ribbing fun amongst us . Said Laugh , I thought I'd die . LOL
Space

[dbrown20]

for I've Been Every Where. Or as a narrowback once told me, I'm Broke Ever Winter. dbrown20

[Space]

So much work here we have plenty year round . Non Union contractors are in competetion for Linemen is the reason the pot has been sweetened beyond just getting a paycheck .
When I was younger I was also a member of the Sheet metal workers union , The talk was what we wanted to hear , or Pres was put in place by us and we where off to the tables . What I didn't understand was after it became obvious that we weren't going to settle , they broke out all kinds of overtime . It was obvious to those of that didn't have our heads in the sand what they where up too . Sure nuff after they where well stocked with heating and air conditioning parts that required skilled labor they pushed us into a corner and strike we did . I was on the pickett line with them everyday , knowing deep down that they had played us and wondered how someone smart enough to be a Pres. could not have seen it comming . Scabs crossed the line and did the work that required knowledge of a screw gun and used the parts we had stock piled .
I knew the pres from working with him before he became Pres. So I swung by the hall one afternoon to see how he could explain not seeing it comming . When I pulled up I saw a brand new Caddy setting out front , this really gave me a hollow feeling and when I walked in the office there set Albert with a fifth and glasss in front of him , a secartary half his age and I said What the hells this Albert ? He laughed and said "Hell the company pays better than the Union" I threw a few four letters at him and stormed out . went back to tell the other strikers , What a mess that turned out to be . Guns , police , assaults , house burnings , it got crazy .
We ended up with about what we had before the strike , then came the gas crunch and soon we where out of work, hell every body was out of work . Only people with 9-10 yrs senority where kept , I had two so you know how long I lasted .

[wudwoker51]

During the last 6 months one utility in our state on more than one occasion has brought in some non-union crews to help with storm resoration. It was the first time that a non-union contractor had ever been used (they said union crews were not available which was BS). I was proud of my fellow brothers, we worked to get everyones power back in service and took the high road in regards to retaliating against the non-union, hell we blamed the chicken shit bean counters at the utiility more than anyone. They did have enough sense to release the non-union crews before they released us hell hard telling what would have happened if we had gotten released, swelled a few brews and had some time on our hands. We don't take kindly to someone jeopardizing our livelihoods. Due to contact language the non-union received the same wage and benefit level that the in-house utility crews receive (or at least they were supposed to) but after the storm several of our crews had to be redeployed to fix numerous #&%$ ups. Non-tension sleeves used on tension splices, service neutrals on hot-legs , reversed phase rotation etc. so I guess the utility didn't get what they paid for but got what they deserved.

[Space]

"redeployed to fix numerous #&%$ ups. Non-tension sleeves used on tension splices, service neutrals on hot-legs and vice-versa, reversed phase rotation etc."

Know how you feel , once went behind a Union contractor after an ice storm . Some weeks later we went to cut in a set of air switches and when I got to the crossarm to break the load , found the jumper was deadended in the shoe but six inches from the shoe a squeeze on was holding the span , they sleeved with a squeeze on , 477 too . Field phase was a mess too , so you can toot your horn all ya want , there are sorry asses on both sides .

Space

[electric squirrel]

I might be wrong Space but isnt the point to get the power back on ASAP when you go out on "storm".Things arent always "up to snuff" or to code but people get power.I know that I have seen or have done personaly some pretty "fancy riggin".Ive scabbed arms to snapped off poles to get heigth ,tied a "western union" when we had no sleeves,kerney'd wire,and for sure dead ended wire with a sleeve right outside the shoe.But thats all we could do,materials scarce and you gotta make do with what you got.The CC's from the power company always knew what we did and where.

Isnt a compresson sleeve as strong as you can get?
You said that they squeezed 477 size wire,havent seen that size out here in California,but I'd bet it was squeezed with a pump and a die head,and if that wont hold a span of wire I dont know what will!! And if a pump wasnt used I'd like to see the guy who did it by hand ,I got work for him back at the ranch!!!

You said you were cutting in a switch and when you got to the arm to "break load" you seen how messed up the Union contractor left things.You cant get on this site and bash anyones work without lettin' people know just what you know ,PaBen asked you to fill in your profile,for all we know your just a grunt or an ape!!
If are breaking "load" that close to things your stupid!! You need to be more clear on things,were you sticking or were you just dumping wire? If you got 477 wire I'd say that could carry quite a large amount of amperage,if you are breaking jumpers by hand thats kinda foolish.Let the rest of us know what kind of work youve done and where before you start bashing!!!

[wudwoker51]

Space, Wasn't tooting my horn just saying that we know better than to do shitty work. Hell if you don't work safe, give a good days work for a good days pay and do it right the first time you might as well hire a sub-standard contractor. I realize that that in todays world the bottom line is all the utilities are concerned with, and the non-union wage rates (I won't mention benefits considering that they don't have any) is what the bean-counters like the most about the unorganized. I do know this, if non-union crews from Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas or where ever else they reside continue to respond to the calls for manpower from a bunch of bean-counters that don't have a clue, there will be trouble. We will protect our livelihoods and that of our families. As for you Space, it seems to me that from reading your blogs that you have worked on both sides of the fence something I know absolutely nothing about, I am loyal to the Brotherhood and always will be. The door is open for the non-union to join us and if you do we will welcome you but if you remain unorganized, stay home.

[polemonkey]

If you have issues with who comes to help instorm restoration, take it up with the bean counters. Not with the lineman, because whenit all comes down to it were all lineman. It doesnt matter if you union or non we have all seen poor work and all have a dumb ass or two in our work force.

[wudwoker51]

Polemonkey, the wages and benefits that we enjoy today were made possible by the hard work and sacrifice of our Brothers who came before us. If you think for a minute that we will not fight to keep our standard of living you are sadly mistaken. If you don't want to join us just stay in your " right to work for less " state.