PDA

View Full Version : Pole Top Rescue Training



shadow
03-22-2007, 03:45 PM
When conducting hurtman rescue for seasoned linemen ( not new trainees). I am talking about linemen that have earned the crew leader status, how many use full fall arrest? And are your linemen qualified to free climb wood poles? let me know your thoughts....thanks

thrasher
03-22-2007, 04:04 PM
We conduct rescue training with the same tools and equipment you have on the job. For us in the USA that means free climb. I don't know about our Canadian and Aussie brothers. Thats why I asked where you are. If any US company does rescue practice different then the field they are kidding themselves. This only applies to full journeymen NOT apprentices. Although in the last 3 steps of our 10 step program the apprentices practice with the journeymen.

Jabbo
03-22-2007, 04:14 PM
No fall arrest and we actually push the guys to free climb, it puts a lot less stress on the pole. You get a couple of hundred pounds hoboing up a pole and just watch the hardware swinging. We don't have a stop watch on site either. I would rather them practice the skill than the speed. Adrenaline will take care of that if needed.

Jabbo

shadow
03-22-2007, 04:50 PM
I am in North Carolina. I work with a membership organization that supports almost 80 municipalities in training. A qualified instructor went to one of our cities and conducted a hurt man rescue training exercise. Everything was going very smooth. A crew leader from this location climbed up to the rescue randy lost his grip and fell. He unfortunately injured his ankle to the point that he retired on disability. Almost 3 years later he filed a law suite against the support organization and the lineman instructor teaching the class. This injured linesman will admit that he has climbed hundreds of poles in his career, but he say's that he should have been provided fall protection, and a cushion at the base of the pole. His attorney's are banging on the OSHA Standard that "Employees undergoing training are not to be considered "qualified employees" for the purpose of this provision, and must be provide fall protection. However, OSHA also says that Qualified employees may "Free Climb wood poles if the employer can ensure,,,so on an so forth......

I know and he knows that he is just gold digging. I would however like to know what everyone else in the U.S. is doing and what they think of this situation......if they win the case they will set a precedent..OSHA will only stand up and bow out there chest when they are citing you for a possible violation but when you need them they are hiding and won't comment one way or the other..... Give me your thoughts...Thanks Brothers.....

Bull Dog
03-22-2007, 05:09 PM
Last time I did this my time was faster than anyone eles in the co except one young squirel. At age 56 i was happy with that. think it was around 43 sec. from ground to injured man on the ground. Most of the young bucks beat me up the pole but when they got there took more time than me to get man down. We did have one foreman older than me that they let go up 5ft to do it but in a emergency i think he would be fine. No fall arrest free climbed. In a emergency We would all free climb so why not get used to it. I mostly free climbed when younger but used the hitch hike method after.

LEAFMAN
03-22-2007, 05:33 PM
I'm from Ontario, Canada. We are not aloud to free climb. We have a primary pole belt with a pole choker and a secondary belt for when u have unbelt the primary belt to climb around phone, secondary lines ect. Apprentices and journeymen wear for the most part the same equipment.

42linehand
03-22-2007, 05:57 PM
We free climb and so do our apprentices after they pass a climbing test. I agree that you should practice the same way that you would rescue someone in the field. In that situation you dont have time or resources to put a harness on.

500 KVA
03-22-2007, 06:52 PM
I think that when an employee has that much experience, and the company poicy does not use fall arrest for climbing, then he should not be able to sue using that as the reason.

He may be better off using poor pole conditions or something like that. I know our poles get chewed up pretty bad. To the point that they are tough to climb.

Once our apprentices are certified in pole climbing school, or a new hire Journeyman who has proven his qualifications and passed a pole climbing skills test; they do not need to be on a teather any longer.

We do not free climb when we have reached the feet of the victom. We belt off below just in case they come concious and kick.

Everybody is sue happy anymore. Sometimes I think there is merit and sometimes not. It's a case by case thing I guess.

old lineman
03-22-2007, 08:45 PM
It's interesting that when training and practicing pole top rescue someone would actually put a stop watch to the process.
What the hell is the matter with management that would permit/encourage this type of nonsense?
You train to gain skills that you don't already possess, and you practice to maintain those skills. I have found that in most cases the last practice session was months or years ago.
What is the purpose of timing and causing unnecessary stress which is often the root cause of a falling accident.
All the winner gets is bragging rights. Whoop ti do!
I was with a crew who conducted their previous session as a competition like that and the winner dropped the Rescue Randy three times. But he was the quickest.
What's the OBJECTIVE?
To learn the technic so well that if a brother is injured panic doesn't cause a blank. Take your time and learn the skill.
That's also the basis of linemen free climbing when they otherwise don't. Talk about a high risk activity.
In Ontario as someone already said they are required to wear full fall protection for training and practicing.
IN A REAL CASE SITUATION YA DO WHAT YA GOTTA DO. If your going to belt and unbelt and belt again over every obstacle then that's called "BODY RECOVERY"--------- NOT RESCUE.
Rushing is natural but doesn't have a place in training. What other type of training can you recall where time is a measuring stick. The Olympics?
The Old Lineman

shadow
03-22-2007, 09:09 PM
I appreciatee the kind words and advice....we also do not time our rescue procedure....we practice the skills and techniques necessary to successfully rescue the victime...please....let me hear all your thoughts....I need your help brothers...thanks

tramp67
03-22-2007, 10:12 PM
From the first time we did pole top rescue in the apprenticeship to present, I always went with the thought that I am not in a race, but I need to get to the victim safely. If I race up the pole, fall, and get hurt myself, then what was accomplished? Most of the guys in my apprenticeship class raced to see who could get the best time, but like mentioned above, a couple times rescue randy got airmailed. Glad that wasn't me up there!:eek: I am used to freeclimbing, and I freeclimb until just below the victim, then belt in. If you are used to belted climbing, then that's the way you should do it. Whatever method you normally climb is what you should be doing. In an emergency, you want to do what comes natural, not try to remember some different thing that you learned in a training exercise 9 months ago. The whole purpose is to get to the victim, safely, and without becoming a victim yourself, get him to the ground without causing any more injuries to him.
I haven't had to use any of the fall arrest stuff that some of you are being required to use, just wondering how much extra time it takes to get someone disconnected from all that junk. And, when you practice pole top rescue, is rescue randy all tethered in like a real person would be??:confused:

KingRat
03-22-2007, 10:47 PM
From the first time we did pole top rescue in the apprenticeship to present, I always went with the thought that I am not in a race, but I need to get to the victim safely. If I race up the pole, fall, and get hurt myself, then what was accomplished? Most of the guys in my apprenticeship class raced to see who could get the best time, but like mentioned above, a couple times rescue randy got airmailed. Glad that wasn't me up there!:eek: I am used to freeclimbing, and I freeclimb until just below the victim, then belt in. If you are used to belted climbing, then that's the way you should do it. Whatever method you normally climb is what you should be doing. In an emergency, you want to do what comes natural, not try to remember some different thing that you learned in a training exercise 9 months ago. The whole purpose is to get to the victim, safely, and without becoming a victim yourself, get him to the ground without causing any more injuries to him.
I haven't had to use any of the fall arrest stuff that some of you are being required to use, just wondering how much extra time it takes to get someone disconnected from all that junk. And, when you practice pole top rescue, is rescue randy all tethered in like a real person would be??:confused:

We also free climb- but belt off below victim like you stated tramp-We also don't use a dummy, grunt's are better.

tramp67
03-22-2007, 10:53 PM
We also free climb- but belt off below victim like you stated tramp-We also don't use a dummy, grunt's are better.

I guess that way you can find out how smooth the ride was!

Bull Dog
03-22-2007, 11:05 PM
There is no pressure for someone to get a good time holy cow man you get all the hair up right a way! If i go up there to rescue someone i want to be fast as possible. Someone pls tell me whats wrong with that? Dont tell me you must be safe first i already know that. We take our tools in the back lot and hang them on a fence just in case-anything to get to him as fast as possible. There is much training before anyone goes up to do this and the new guys do it slow first till they get it then they speed up. I dont see a problem and it adds some fun to it. Yes ive fallen off a pole but guess what i was taking my time when it happened. Most of the time its a knot or a crack in the pole that caused the problem. Any how thats how we do it and its good training for the real thing which ive never done and hope never to. Before they had a dummy we used to let each other down but not from too hi up just to learn the way to do it. Its actually harder with the dummy cause i think hes full of lead or something.

duckhunter
03-23-2007, 09:14 AM
We free climb if we wish, however, I think it is best to buck up the pole especially when you get near the dummy. In a real situation the victim could become sudenly concius and start moving around even kicking. If you are not bucked in you could end up on the ground as another victim.

thrasher
03-23-2007, 05:18 PM
I said earlier that we Free Climb doing Pole top rescue. OSHA considers it free climbing whether you use your hands or the strap to "hitchhike" or "buck" up the pole. The point is we do not use a full fall arrest system. We have linemen that do both styles of free climb, and the company doesn't care. Either one is still fast enough if you know what you are doing when you get to the top.