Brits taken hostage

[Bull Dog]

Well now that the Iranians have started the hostage thing again anyone think we should bomb them this time or call in Jimmy Carter since he did such a good job last time....

[RWD]

The Britts are having issues with open imigration. They now have a large gathering of anti western folks who years ago read about "destroy from within" and took it to heart. Much like what is happening here in the states with both the Latino's and the Middle Easterners.

That being said ..... Niether group has the original thought abilities to come up with that idea on thier own and have jumped the gun. They should have waited another 20 to 30 years and there would have been no contest. buttttt that too being said.

Britan is still an empire. It is not a 3rd world nation and not a push over pussy like Carter or some of the diversionary administrations we have had in the USA. They know they have two choices here. Give up the war (and it is a war) at home and do nothing in Iran ..... or fight two fronts. I just hope we will have the balls to watch thier back like they have watched ours.

Lets Roll

RWD

[wormy]

One part of me says lets roll, one part says hold on after the mess in Irag. Smarter minds than me are hopefully making the right decision. I wish we would have flattened the place when our hostages were taken years ago. Is it up to us or the Brits?

[Trampbag]

RWD is correct. “This is a war.” Not one of our own choosing, really. Think of 9-11.

This “war” really did start in 1979 with the Ayatollah Khomeini returning to Iran. We in the west actually supported this return because Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, had become so unpalatable to us with his extravagancies and cruelty.

Regardless, we may be involved in the early days of WWIII. We are into something not of our own choosing and impossible to extricate ourselves from unless we would desire to be Muslim. Some how I cannot see Lost Art wearing a burqa or CenterPointEX pushing the merits of the Koran. Considering that we are into a long and costly war which unfortunately we do not control the momentum. Who do we strike??

“Arresting” British naval personnel by the Iranian’s poses a very interesting phenomenon. The Brits are not the Americans. The British Government has a history of decisive action and they are not as squeamish about loosing lives when it comes to defending themselves. This will probably come down to a “who blinks first” situation and I would guess that Iran will release the “hostages” within a week or so with some kind of face saving show of sorts.

Grabbing British troops is an act of war and Britain is a NATO member. That “act of war” is against the NATO pact. All of NATO will be involved. Remember too, Iran has foreign hostile troops on many borders; Iraq, the Persian Gulf and Afghanistan, as well as Turkey (a NATO country) and Pakistan (a western ally?).

Also Iran has very poor relations with Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Qatar. Qatar and Iran have been hostile, almost to the point of military action, for years over contested territory in the Persian Gulf because of the oil rich offshore reserves. The Iranian idea of Islamic law is unacceptable to the royal houses that control many of the Arab states because those royal families would go the same way as the Shah of Iran in 1979, into exile or executed.

We in the western world really need to support our Government and military efforts and to understand who our allies are, and why, and, if you do pray, pray for the safe return of those held by the Iranians.

This war will escalate soon enough. I don’t believe we are ready now.

Will we ever be??????

[PA BEN]

Seems like Anna Smith is the top news over here, it would be nice to be over with it. I haven't herd much on whats going on with the hostages, what are you hearing in the UK.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Seems like Anna Smith is the top news over here, it would be nice to be over with it. I haven't herd much on whats going on with the hostages, what are you hearing in the UK.

That's why this country is in the state that it is in. Iran commits an act of war against our biggest ally in the world, and all people in this country care about is a bubble-headed blonde whose life was a complete circus. Where are the priorities...?:confused:

[LostArt]

That's why this country is in the state that it is in. Iran commits an act of war against our biggest ally in the world, and all people in this country care about is a bubble-headed blonde whose life was a complete circus. Where are the priorities...?:confused:

Honestly....who gives a rat's butt???? REALLY??? A handfull of people...maybe? American news has become all about celebrities or high profile trash. It's nothing but a soapopra! Jeeeeeze.

I had to honestly look up who the heck Anna Nicole was. SERIOUSLY! I don't watch E!...or any other celebrity shows. I will occassionally watch Biography, but I first have to see who they are broadcasting about before the show even starts. But, what am I saying??? Half of the celebrities that are shown in movies, I either don't know who played in them or guessing who played in what movie!

But, it must help to be a celebrity to get into politics these days. :D

[tramp67]

Anna Smith???:confused:

[LostArt]

Anna Smith???:confused:

Maybe this will help?

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/love7.gif

[Squizzy]

Reminds me of Demi Moore in Strip Tease:eek:
Any way the Iranians are Sabre rattling again its a hard one they have from memory 4 times the population of Iraq and they are more fanatical. Years of brainwashing and propaganda have rightfully earned Iran a place in the "Axis Of Evil". It leaves 2 main problems do you get the sailors out diplomatically or forcefully? You do it diplomatically then someone is going to lose face and someone gain standing on the reverse side and Iraq will go posibly go from bad to worse, old GW Bush has openly accused Iran of backing the Iraqi insugencey the SAS go in and get the hostages out with any sort of body count then Iran may well to decide to really throw themselves into Iraq. As for the Air Strikes well that will piss them off greatly, one of my first lessons on tactics in modern warfare stated that when faced with a superior enemy you do not let him engage you on his terms(ie out in the open), go to ground and change the battle field/even the odds, choose the timing and scale of engagements. You can dominate the sky all you like but its the grunts and the infantry that are required to hold the ground they are the ones that pay the price. It was a lesson that should have been fully learnt in Veitnam and Iraq do we want to make it in Iran as well? Thats my take on it I prefer the diplomatic solution myself and Blair could then ask Israel to bomb Irans' reactors as a sort of subcontract as they should have enough practice of doing it in Iraq....

[scammy]

squizzy ,,if we air strike iran ,,,it wont be spacific targets ,,,,it will be all targets,,they will be so far back in the stone age,that flint , will be thier new tecknology,,,,scammy

[tolex42]

Could this possibly be a ploy concocted by George Bush and Tony Blair, as the Gulf of Tonkin incident was by Lyndon Johnson, to distract the American public into gaining support for attacking Iran? Cheney has been talking about this for months. Don't forget they also have a huge amount of oil reserves. Why did we move a second aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf last week?

It is not beyond belief that George Bush would drag us into another war in an attempt to protect his legacy.

[scammy]

yes I believe george and dick paid the Iranians to kidnapp the brits,,,,,pull your head out of your ass boy!!!!!!!!!!

[LostArt]

yes I believe george and dick paid the Iranians to kidnapp the brits,,,,,pull your head out of your ass boy


Oh gravey....I lost it..
http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/ass843xx.gif

[Squizzy]

squizzy ,,if we air strike iran ,,,it wont be spacific targets ,,,,it will be all targets,,they will be so far back in the stone age,that flint , will be thier new tecknology,,,,scammy

Yes sounds like Iraq but the stone age has cost 3000+ US troops so far.You don't see the insurgents trying to engage coalition forces en mass do you? What will happen when ground troops go in? What do you have in Iraq 130000+? Iran has 4 times the population got a spare half a million troops and the same again in whatever the tour is 12 months? Keep bombing more and more countries they will all join together and then there will be even more trouble...

[Dave@PSE&G]

Could this possibly be a ploy concocted by George Bush and Tony Blair, as the Gulf of Tonkin incident was by Lyndon Johnson, to distract the American public into gaining support for attacking Iran? Cheney has been talking about this for months. Don't forget they also have a huge amount of oil reserves. Why did we move a second aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf last week?

It is not beyond belief that George Bush would drag us into another war in an attempt to protect his legacy.

C'mon. Give me a ****ing break.

[Trampbag]

According to the CIA “World Factbook”,

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html


The population of Iraq is: 26,783,383 (July 2006 est.)

Iran is: 68,688,433 (July 2006 est.)
Manpower fit for military service:
males age 18-49: 15,665,725
females age 18-49: 15,005,597 (2005 est.)

Total Population Iraq+ Iran: 95.5 million

The population of Vietnam is: 84,402,966 (July 2006 est.)


Did you know there are 10 million Muslims in the USA? 1.6 million in the UK? 400,000 in Canada?

http://islamicweb.com/begin/population.htm

There are an expected (2005) 2 billion Muslims on earth.

“Among every four humans in the world, one of them is Muslim. Muslims have increased by over 235 percent in the last fifty years up to nearly 1.6 billion. By comparison, Christians have increased by only 47 percent, Hinduism, 117 percent, and Buddhism by 63 percent. Islam is the second largest religious group in France, Great Britain and USA.”

[Squizzy]

Fair enough I heard it was 4 times but it still doesn't make the figures look good they are fanatical. You cut off the head and you will end up with factional fighting its a crap situation all round. Showing the hostages on TV today looks like they want some military strike to use for more propaganda then they are just as likely to open their border on the Iraq side and send over more nut cases. I wouldn't have surrendered myself to them the sad part is the hostages I wonder if the Geneva Convention will apply to them following the example of Guantanamo Bay? They could hold them for them for 5 years without charge or trial as its good enough for GB...

[scammy]

bet your but ,,,,,,,,,iran dont have 5 years

[CenterPointEX]

Iran is already in in Iraq... Iran is training bombers and militia to fight in Iraq, Palestine and New York. Islam sees its attacks as self defense if you can imagine that. They in self defense are instructed by the Koran to attack any institution that puts up road blocks to Islamic World Domination. This War is in every sense a religious war... The only alternative for the West is to "Submit to Islam\Allah or Die." This is now and has been since its inception in 700 A.D. the battle cry of the Muslims... The turf battle in Iraq is between those who want to secularize the government there and those who want to keep it Islamic... We have no choice ;as it was with the case of Hitler, but to stand our ground. As a Christian nation, we are tolerant,this is not so with Muslims

[graybeard]

There must be some on here that must think Rosie O'Donnell is a historian and diplomat.

[CenterPointEX]

an itty bitty falsie maybe... but Rosie don't do Richards... only Ritas

[Squizzy]

Thankfully she was taken off air here years ago.....

[PA BEN]

She couldn't have said a more stupid thing. I wonder what was burning on the Foreststall an aircraft carrier that burned over in Vietnam.:eek:

[tolex42]

C'mon. Give me a ****ing break.

Sure, and you probably still believe there were weapons of mass distruction in Iraq and that the 9/11 terrorist were Iraqis, not Saudi Arabians. Cheney has been chomping at the bit for months to take a wack at Iran. Can you imagine the oil and billions and billions of dollars he could get there for Halliburton? This would not be the first time that military people were sacrificed for political goals.

What has happened to "the oil in Iraq will more than pay for our military action". Who is getting that oil today? Where are the profits going? How much involvement does Halliburton have in the distribution of Iraqi oil today?

Cheney has been leading Bush around like a puppy ever since they got into office. And it looks like we're headed to war with another country. We had better wake up before those two bastards have us in a world war.

Do you remember Cheney's quote of a few months go "Americans don't have the stomach for war" that from a man with five the deferments!

And if my history serves me correctly the fire on the Forrestal was caused by an accident on board, at sea, and had nothing to do with any sort of military action.

[PA BEN]

Then 3, 1000lb bombs went off. When the fire got so hot the steel that the ship was made of started to burn, it took hours to put out the fire below after the deck fire was out. The point is, steel does burn when it gets hot enought. :eek: This has to do with what Rosie said about our own Government blowing up the world trade towers because "Steel Doesn't Burn" If I was a Democrat I would be ashamed to have her on my side.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Sure, and you probably still believe there were weapons of mass distruction in Iraq and that the 9/11 terrorist were Iraqis, not Saudi Arabians. Cheney has been chomping at the bit for months to take a wack at Iran. Can you imagine the oil and billions and billions of dollars he could get there for Halliburton? This would not be the first time that military people were sacrificed for political goals.

What has happened to "the oil in Iraq will more than pay for our military action". Who is getting that oil today? Where are the profits going? How much involvement does Halliburton have in the distribution of Iraqi oil today?

Cheney has been leading Bush around like a puppy ever since they got into office. And it looks like we're headed to war with another country. We had better wake up before those two bastards have us in a world war.

Do you remember Cheney's quote of a few months go "Americans don't have the stomach for war" that from a man with five the deferments!

And if my history serves me correctly the fire on the Forrestal was caused by an accident on board, at sea, and had nothing to do with any sort of military action.
I am scoffing at the notion that it was all staged.
I suppose that Blair and Bush are making up the video taped "confessions" and "apologies" to, right? That is as ridiculous a notion as the conspiricy theorists who were screaming that the Government perpetrated the 9-11 attacks and made it out to look as though Saudi nationals pulled it off. That's a bunch of shit, as is the notion that Bush and Blair are behind Iran's litlle power play. Ahmadinejad is a sick **** who is going to drag the world into a REAL mess if he is pandered to. The Iranian's only understand one language, and that is brutality. Mark my words, the "diplomatic" avenues will do nothing but empower this munchkin from hell. I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better, especially if Iran follows through with their threat to put those Brits on trial.

[Squizzy]

The Brittish look to be getting the hostages out with diplomacy after which a series of air strikes at all nuclear facilities in Iran as a reminder as to who holds the big stick could be a good move. I don't know if they will release the hostages with that carrier group in the Gulf its sorta like the sword of Damaclees hanging over your head ,as soon as you release we will as well. Don't get me wrong I don't like them at all if it wasn't for oil no one would even bother pissing on them. I heard that old Sadaam's real downfall was that he wanted all Arabic nations to pin the price of oil per barrel to the Euro which wouldn't have done the US dollar any favors....

[PA BEN]

I would say the next hostages will come from the British Embassy:o

[tolex42]

There are people who are "cut out,... for combat, politics, Linemen, mechanics, etc, etc..."

Then there are people like you. "Americans who don't have the stomach for War", to protect the Homeland of America. AND, don't "get" it.

YOU MISSED THE POINT COMPLETLY, I WAS QUOTEING THE VICE PRESIDENT, HE WAS THE PERSON WHO SAID AMERICANS DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH FOR WAR BUT HE TOOK 5 DEFERMENTS HIMSELF WHEN HE WAS CALLED UPON BY HIS COUNTRY TO SERVE. WHAT THAT SAYS TO ME IS IT'S OK FOR US AND OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS TO GO FIGHT BUT NOT HIM. CHENEY ALSO SAID WHEN CALLED TO SERVE "I HAVE OTHER THING TO DO"

ALSO WHAT I WAS REFERING TO REGARDING THE BRITS BEING TAKEN HOSTAGE WAS THAT THEY MAY HAVE BEEN PURPOSELY PUT IN HARMS WAY TO ALLOW AN "INCIDENT" TO OCCUR JUST LIKE THE GULF OF TONKIN INCIDENT WAS CONTRIVED TO ALLOW POLITICIANS TO EXPAND A WAR . I IN NO WAY SUPORT THE IRANIANS. THEY ARE DANGEROUS NUT CASES