Been on both sides of the pole? Which is better?

[LostArt]

How many of you have been Union and NonUnion at some point in your linework career? What are the pros and cons of either side? If there is any, that is. I'd like to hear from both sides...hopefully. Those that have worked Union and NonUnion. If you have worked on both sides of the pole, which is the better for LinemanKind?

[tramp67]

I've only worked Union since I started in linework, and would never go nonunion. Worked both sides of the fence as a narrowback, nonunion contractor was top notch as far as workers, quality of work, equipment. But pay & bennies sucked! Union side, good and bad contractors. But the Union wages, benefits, and representation made up my mind, along with the training!:cool:

[LostArt]

What are you doin?

Have you been reading this board? What the hell have you been hearin from this board for the past 10 years!?

Shit, I don't know if my boot will reach the sturup to get up on this horse again....

What am I doing? What I ALWAYS do! Ask a pile of questions! And we have new folks coming in here all the time. You know it's not always about you, dbrown20, and a few other ole timers here, ya know! :p We all would like a spot here and there!http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool137.gif

You, like the Boss, do NOT count Swamp! You have only been on ONE side of the pole..........with the rats! Therefore, you only know one side, and you refuse to cross. Besides, some dawgs you can't teach new tricks. I, and Mrs. Swamp, should know!

Seriously though, I was asking those that have worked for Union and NonUnion companies. Have you worked union Swamp? Maybe I missed that, but I thought you haven't. Have you?

You? Can't get back in the saddle? NO WAY! Anyone that is as ornery as you, do NOT have that problem Swamp! :D

[LostArt]

I've only worked Union since I started in linework, and would never go nonunion. Worked both sides of the fence as a narrowback, nonunion contractor was top notch as far as workers, quality of work, equipment. But pay & bennies sucked! Union side, good and bad contractors. But the Union wages, benefits, and representation made up my mind, along with the training!:cool:

Hello Tramp67!

I keep hearing narrowback. Is that an Alaskan term for rat or tramp?

So, would you say it's more of a security blanket then?

[Orgnizdlbr]

Hello Tramp67!

I keep hearing narrowback. Is that an Alaskan term for rat or tramp?

So, would you say it's more of a security blanket then?

Wireman=narrowback

[co lineman]

narrowback is an electrician....

I too have only worked on the union side but would have to say I would not go non-union because of the benefits I may have to give up...

[tramp67]

Wireman=narrowback

Exactly. Inside construction.:p

[tramp67]

Exactly. Inside construction.:p

Not to be confused with ropies, spaghetti heads, smurfies - residential electricians!;) Rumor has it the term "narrowback" came from the squids - the electricians on submarines and Navy ships had to have narrow shoulders to fit through many of the passageways where the electrical wiring and equipment was located. Many people use the term "narrowback" to be derogatory, I don't mind being called one as I know that there's a lot of very knowledgeable industrial electricians out there that would put many an engineer to shame.:cool:

[PA BEN]

I was a non-union linemen for 22 years at a small City utility 2400 population 3 man linecrew. I went to union run NJATC schools. I was treated like a scab by the instructors. My third year class picture on top of the arm of a 110ft H frame was given to all the union boys and not me. I was the top in my class with my grades. At that utility I called the union in, this was 4 years ago, for help. The City haired a snake or a bottom feeder [LAWYER], for the next year I drank more beer and couldn't pass my blood pressure test for my CDL. I left two years ago for a union shop. 12 dollars more an hr plus the bennies that my old utility was taking away. My old linecrew is union now. To make a long story short, if the union boys pulled me aside and talked to me about the union and the good the union could bring to me and my co-workers instead of treating my like a scab, unions wouldn't have left a bad taste in my mouth. And I would have gone union a long time ago. After working at a union shop I will never go back to a non-union shop again.:mad:

P.S. I don't drink as much and have no problem passing a blood pressure test now, And best of all the Joy of Linework is back in my life again:D

[dbrown20]

We've discussed this subject before but it doesn't hurt to refresh now and then because there are new people on this board. Kinda like telling old jokes over and over, some people haven't heard them.

PA BEN's experience is typical. The union shoots itself in the foot many times as far as their relationship with non-union people. However there can be no comparison between the two. I would estimate that I have about 7 years non-union experience versus about 33 years of union experience. A union hand is going to have better treatment in the long run than non-union. Most non-union entities and contractors only pay better or equal than union because of the presence of the union. In most places the union pay and benefits will exceed non-union. I have worked all areas, non-union utility, non-union contractor, union utilities and union contractors. The best improvement I would think that the unions could make would be their relationship with non-union people. They would gain a lot more converts I think and that would sure help the unions.

I will give you some examples. I just retired from a union utility that was a part (originally) of the organization of CSW (Central Southwest) that consisted of 2 union utilities (Pub. Serv. Co. of Ok. and SWEPCo. (Southwest Electric Pwr. co) and 2 non-union utilities WTU (West Texas Utilities) and CP&L (Central Power and Light). We acquired via inter-co transfers 4 hands, two from CP&L and two from WTU. Without exception these hands gave the following observations. Now within a union utility a Journeyman is a Journeyman, right? Therefore all Journey would make the same pay and be treated the same basically, right? No, if there were 5 Journeyman in a location then there might be 5 pay scales. It seems the foremen and supervisors got together and rated their hands. Whomever was deemed the best hand got the top pay and it worked it's way down. The best hand might be allowed to do 100% of the bucket work while the rest were relegated to grunting or helping the top hand if he needed it. Sound fair? Not to me. I asked one guy. Why did you put up with such crap? He replied. I thought it was that way everywhere.

Admittedly, a Journeyman classification does not guarantee a good hand, but the likelihood that he will have been exposed to proper training and schooling is better than the non-union. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some non-union hands who were fantastic.

I worked with a hand once who bragged that he had made "top lineman" within a year. It was with a non-union high line contractor and of course the poor fellow had never learned about transformers etc. Oh well, maybe we'll all be union someday. Right? dbrown20

[LostArt]

Man, I'm glad I asked what a narrowback was! I had that all wrong. I could of asked the Boss, but he wasn't around at the time. But, there are so many meanings in linework, equipment, tools, etc...that it can be very confusing. Especially for someone like ME! :D


We've discussed this subject before but it doesn't hurt to refresh now and then because there are new people on this board. Kinda like telling old jokes over and over, some people haven't heard them.

PA BEN's experience is typical. The union shoots itself in the foot many times as far as their relationship with non-union people. However there can be no comparison between the two. I would estimate that I have about 7 years non-union experience versus about 33 years of union experience. A union hand is going to have better treatment in the long run than non-union. Most non-union entities and contractors only pay better or equal than union because of the presence of the union. In most places the union pay and benefits will exceed non-union. I have worked all areas, non-union utility, non-union contractor, union utilities and union contractors. The best improvement I would think that the unions could make would be their relationship with non-union people. They would gain a lot more converts I think and that would sure help the unions.

I will give you some examples. I just retired from a union utility that was a part (originally) of the organization of CSW (Central Southwest) that consisted of 2 union utilities (Pub. Serv. Co. of Ok. and SWEPCo. (Southwest Electric Pwr. co) and 2 non-union utilities WTU (West Texas Utilities) and CP&L (Central Power and Light). We acquired via inter-co transfers 4 hands, two from CP&L and two from WTU. Without exception these hands gave the following observations. Now within a union utility a Journeyman is a Journeyman, right? Therefore all Journey would make the same pay and be treated the same basically, right? No, if there were 5 Journeyman in a location then there might be 5 pay scales. It seems the foremen and supervisors got together and rated their hands. Whomever was deemed the best hand got the top pay and it worked it's way down. The best hand might be allowed to do 100% of the bucket work while the rest were relegated to grunting or helping the top hand if he needed it. Sound fair? Not to me. I asked one guy. Why did you put up with such crap? He replied. I thought it was that way everywhere.

Admittedly, a Journeyman classification does not guarantee a good hand, but the likelihood that he will have been exposed to proper training and schooling is better than the non-union. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some non-union hands who were fantastic.

I worked with a hand once who bragged that he had made "top lineman" within a year. It was with a non-union high line contractor and of course the poor fellow had never learned about transformers etc. Oh well, maybe we'll all be union someday. Right? dbrown20

Wow. Thanks so much Mr. Brown. I truly love reading your posts. They are very informative...even for me! Heh. Yes, we have talked about this, but it never hurts to throw this stuff out there again, does it? :D


The best improvement I would think that the unions could make would be their relationship with non-union people. They would gain a lot more converts I think and that would sure help the unions.

My thoughts EXACTLY!! I mean, it's really discrimitive at times (both sides). Almost like those of us that were either raised in the south or the north or those of us that have either different political or religious views. Know what I mean?

But, those linemen that have either been one or the other, how would they know what was "better" or not?



Admittedly, a Journeyman classification does not guarantee a good hand, but the likelihood that he will have been exposed to proper training and schooling is better than the non-union. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some non-union hands who were fantastic.


Also, are you saying that if you are non-union or a rat, that it's not the experience that you might carry over that would make a difference with a union company? You would have to go to lineman school, to be even considered experience....no matter your years of experience in transmission lines? I'm just using this as an example Mr. Brown. Of course all of my knowlege (or lack of) is based on what I know about the Boss's linework/career experiences.

For those that are new to my posts, please understand that I certainly do NOT know everything. I have not climbed a pole, and not been in a bucket to work (although I have been up in one) and I most certainly do NOT know LINEWORK other than what my husband (the Boss) has mentioned or showed me....or what I have read here by those of you that are in the trade. I'm just interested in what other linemen around the world post here. And it helps me, as a lineman's wife, to understand some of the work the Boss does. And maybe, it will help other wives...or those interested in this trade to understand. Plus....I just like asking questions! :D Right guys? Heh.

[tramp67]

[QUOTE=LostArt;28998]

Also, are you saying that if you are non-union or a rat, that it's not the experience that you might carry over that would make a difference with a union company? You would have to go to lineman school, to be even considered experience....no matter your years of experience in transmission lines? I'm just using this as an example Mr. Brown. Of course all of my knowlege (or lack of) is based on what I know about the Boss's linework/career experiences.

When a non-union lineman applies to work in the IBEW, they need to show that they have the experience that would be expected of someone having gone through one of the IBEW apprenticeship programs. If they meet the qualifications, they usually start out as a "white ticket" or untested lineman. The Union hall usually gives them a specific time period in which they are required to take the IBEW Journeyman Lineman's exam. I think they are allowed either two or three attempts to pass the exam. If they can't pass, the Union and apprenticeship committee will evaluate the candidate and place them at a level in the apprenticeship program at which the candidate is qualified for. The IBEW apprenticeship programs require a specified number of hours experience in various aspects of the trade, and the requirements vary by the apprenticeship program. When I went through Missouri Valley Line Constructors Apprenticeship Training (MVLCAT), we needed 7000 hours minimum work experience, and of that, 1000 hours had to be transmission line construction, 4000 hours distribution experience - of which at least 1000 hours had to be hot time (working on energized conductors above 600volts), and the remaining hours could be any type of work including substations, street lighting, more transmission, etc.
Many of the non union contractors hire someone for strictly one type of work, and never train them in the other areas of linework.

[LostArt]

[quote=LostArt;28998]

Also, are you saying that if you are non-union or a rat, that it's not the experience that you might carry over that would make a difference with a union company? You would have to go to lineman school, to be even considered experience....no matter your years of experience in transmission lines? I'm just using this as an example Mr. Brown. Of course all of my knowlege (or lack of) is based on what I know about the Boss's linework/career experiences.


When a non-union lineman applies to work in the IBEW, they need to show that they have the experience that would be expected of someone having gone through one of the IBEW apprenticeship programs. If they meet the qualifications, they usually start out as a "white ticket" or untested lineman. The Union hall usually gives them a specific time period in which they are required to take the IBEW Journeyman Lineman's exam. I think they are allowed either two or three attempts to pass the exam. If they can't pass, the Union and apprenticeship committee will evaluate the candidate and place them at a level in the apprenticeship program at which the candidate is qualified for. The IBEW apprenticeship programs require a specified number of hours experience in various aspects of the trade, and the requirements vary by the apprenticeship program. When I went through Missouri Valley Line Constructors Apprenticeship Training (MVLCAT), we needed 7000 hours minimum work experience, and of that, 1000 hours had to be transmission line construction, 4000 hours distribution experience - of which at least 1000 hours had to be hot time (working on energized conductors above 600volts), and the remaining hours could be any type of work including substations, street lighting, more transmission, etc.
Many of the non union contractors hire someone for strictly one type of work, and never train them in the other areas of linework.

I wonder what happens if a non-union utility is made a union? Would they retest all the linemen there?

See, when the Boss started out, there was training and it was a few years before he became a lineman, but there was no "thing" called schooling. Yes, he started at a construction crew from the ground up, but this was back in the late '70's. But, there are schooling and testing for those who are going into the JL program at this utility now.

So today, if a non-union utility became Union, would the linemen there be grandfathered in or what?

[Orgnizdlbr]

[quote=tramp67;29007]



I wonder what happens if a non-union utility is made a union? Would they retest all the linemen there?

See, when the Boss started out, there was training and it was a few years before he became a lineman, but there was no "thing" called schooling. Yes, he started at a construction crew from the ground up, but this was back in the late '70's. But, there are schooling and testing for those who are going into the JL program at this utility now.

So today, if a non-union utility became Union, would the linemen there be grandfathered in or what?

Grace, if the majority of workers at a non-union utility petition for an NLRB for an election and in turn elect to join a union, the workers become union members. No tests, then they begin the bargaining process, which in todays envirement, is extremely difficult.

There is another thread that speaks about the Employee Free Choice Act that would slightly change the process, specifically, mandatory first contract binding arbitration.

[PA BEN]

When I started in May of ’84 I was a non-union apprentice. The Linemen Boss at the City utility drew up an agreement based on W.W.P. now Avista’s apprentice program. I went to the first and second year schools, and a two week hot stick school in my second year. My boss who is a Journeymen trained at PGE in California was given bad information from the union that I would never top out as a non-union employee. So he didn’t send me to the third year school. As far as the State was concerned I was considered a qualified employee. In 12 years and 12.49 an hr. and three employee’s who left. My boss found out that you can’t send an apprentice to NJATC schools unless you have a State approved apprentice program. My Boss again made the City’s program from Avista’s and the City approved it, and the State and Union also approved it. At 12 years I went to apprentice school, second year again. I finished the schools, second and third toped out and received a State approved Journeymen card. When I called the Union in local 77 they said I would have to take there Journeymen test after we got a contract. At my new Utility the Union looked at my State card and school info,[ I left before going Union] I had to take a 2 ½ hr test, witch I had only 4 days to study for. Passed end of story. :D

[loodvig]

I've worked both sides of the fence. But only 2 1/2 years rat. And that was over 24 years ago. I wouldn't have the retirement plan I have now if I stayed rat! Just my 2 cents!

[Bull Dog]

Up north we dont have union v non cause we dont let them on our property period. The companys dont want them either. Must be a different world down south since I have been on this site I see there are mostly down south. Not much conflict up here over this issue. Youre either union or you work at some ma and pa outfit for 18 bucks and thats it. Art i love narrow backs cause they wear bigger bras! Now youll have to guess i dont mean electricians.

[LostArt]

Thanks Georgie. Now, post the link where this is at! :D Please? I really don't want to go diggin' in the Union Issues for it. Half of that stuff is WAAAAY beyond me.

Loo, the Boss did have a 401K with a contractor but you are right, no retirement. And he gave a lot of years to them too. Like I have posted, he is much better off now.


Up north we dont have union v non cause we dont let them on our property period. The companys dont want them either. Must be a different world down south since I have been on this site I see there are mostly down south. Not much conflict up here over this issue. Youre either union or you work at some ma and pa outfit for 18 bucks and thats it.

Who do you not let on the property? Non union folks? There are some union places here in Florida. Isn't Florida Power one? I thought I saw someone post that here. I could be wrong though.


Art i love narrow backs cause they wear bigger bras! Now youll have to guess i dont mean electricians.

You are awful Bull Dog! :D That's like saying they don't have any.............uh.....family jewels...or something...

Okay, it's over my head....what do you mean?

[LostArt]

Oh! Forgot!

Tramp....Ben, the Boss did take some tests. He had no problems with them or getting in because some of the folks at this utility had worked with him when he was a superintendent for the contractor and bidded on some of the jobs they had over the years. Just wanted to clairify that he had to go through some testing (written and physical) before getting this job.

[Bull Dog]

some companys have a closed shop so you must join the union no choice given. We have had non union try to get on as contractor and the union said no to the co when they asked and that was that. Like i said its different up here. Fpl im not shure but i think the company is union but they may have nonunion contractors not shure. Really we dont know much about the south. When i go on a road trip its usually up in the north somewere. I do know about southern women and i like what i saw.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Thanks Georgie. Now, post the link where this is at! :D Please? I really don't want to go diggin' in the Union Issues for it. Half of that stuff is WAAAAY beyond me.



Link?? Dont know what ya mean Gracie....

[LostArt]

Really we dont know much about the south. When i go on a road trip its usually up in the north somewere. I do know about southern women and i like what i saw.

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/love9911.gifReally??? Heh. Most Northern folks (men) think we kinda grind on their nerves a tad bit. But, it's always nice to hear that we southern gals ain't all THAT bad.

You never did say how far up north..............NORTH was Bull Dog, but...if you don't mind... will you tell Santa that I am "really" trying to work hard on being good this year?


Link?? Dont know what ya mean Gracie....




There is another thread that speaks about the Employee Free Choice Act that would slightly change the process, specifically, mandatory first contract binding arbitration.

The "link" to the thread you are talking about Georgie. In other words, you can find the thread, and go up to the "address"...highlight it ...copy, paste, and post it here. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool134.gif

[Orgnizdlbr]

http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/love9911.gifReally??? Heh. Most Northern folks (men) think we kinda grind on their nerves a tad bit. But, it's always nice to hear that we southern gals ain't all THAT bad.

You never did say how far up north..............NORTH was Bull Dog, but...if you don't mind... will you tell Santa that I am "really" trying to work hard on being good this year?





The "link" to the thread you are talking about Georgie. In other words, you can find the thread, and go up to the "address"...highlight it ...copy, paste, and post it here. http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/cool134.gif

http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?t=2488

[tramp67]

[QUOTE=LostArt;29041]

Who do you not let on the property? Non union folks? There are some union places here in Florida. Isn't Florida Power one? I thought I saw someone post that here. I could be wrong though.

Most of the utilities in the Northern part of the country are Union. The utilities want Union contractors doing the work on their property, not rats. They expect quality, safety, and production, all at the same time. They keep tabs on how many journeymen, apprentices are on their property, and often will get after the contractors if they don't have enough journeymen linemen on a project. Any unscheduled outage or other accident, and you might get kicked off the property - the contractor, not just the responsible individuals.
Not only that, but many of the utility hands will refuse to have non-union contractors on the job, and will definitely make that clear to management in ways that they can't miss.:D It still is a love/hate relationship between Union contractor linemen and Union utility linemen, but we have respect for each other.
Many of the Southern utilities are Union, but will hire whoever is low bid, union or non. That's why you will see Pike trucks all over in the South, but you will never find any up North, not even on storm work.:cool:

[billg]

Never say never. National Grid had a bunch of Pike crews in Buffalo after a storm in early winter.

[Stinger]

Two things here: 1- TRAMP, thanks for the history lesson, I myself have always wondered where that term originated.

2. Having worked both sides of the fence I am sorry I did not go union years ago when I was young. I had an oppurtunity to voice my opinion in a COMET training session. The point I made was just because a man is not union, does not mean he is not a good hand. When we talk to our non-union brothers do not berate them. we all know union hands who could not make a pimple on on a non-union linemans ass. There is good and bad on both sides. The real issue at hand is the financial benifiets and protection of your job through the grievence procedure of being union. This is the selling point of being union. I am not saying once your in the union your on easy street. You still have to be a safe productive hand. If you are not, you will be dealt with by both the brothers and the local. On the non union side you be an ace lineman, stand up to the foreman or GF over an issue and find yourself unemployed because you put a hair across his ass. At least on the union side you have a way of grievance on the matter. I am proud to be a lineman. I respect the views and the brotherhood of lineman, union or not. I just think it would be a better world if we were all union to enjoy better work conditions, some job protection, fair representation at the bargining table, financial and health and welafare benifiets. If we are one and solid as members standing up for one another we are a force to be reckond with. We are one of the few trades that if we ever on strike nation wide it would be felt within days accross the nation. The utilties would be on their knees begging. Lets face it, the utilities screwed their own people so they make a higher return for the shareholders. Being a contractor I do not come onto your property with the sole purpose of taking your job, your employer sold you out, not the union. Enough of my long winded story. The bottom line having been on both sides, I prefer the union.

[LostArt]

Most of the utilities in the Northern part of the country are Union. The utilities want Union contractors doing the work on their property, not rats. They expect quality, safety, and production, all at the same time. They keep tabs on how many journeymen, apprentices are on their property, and often will get after the contractors if they don't have enough journeymen linemen on a project. Any unscheduled outage or other accident, and you might get kicked off the property - the contractor, not just the responsible individuals.
Not only that, but many of the utility hands will refuse to have non-union contractors on the job, and will definitely make that clear to management in ways that they can't miss.:D It still is a love/hate relationship between Union contractor linemen and Union utility linemen, but we have respect for each other.
Many of the Southern utilities are Union, but will hire whoever is low bid, union or non. That's why you will see Pike trucks all over in the South, but you will never find any up North, not even on storm work.:cool:

Well, you have that right. What with the utilities vs. contractors. Down here where we are, it's noticeable, but not as.....how will I put it? ...as vocal here. But, since the Boss has worked both contractor and utility and has worked with both sides on jobs (even before joining the utility), it's still not a big issue here....or so what I gather. Hey, the Boss doesn't talk much about it, but he says there are some tension at times. But, I'm talking just non-union, both contractor and utility and it's still there. :D

[LostArt]

There is good and bad on both sides. The real issue at hand is the financial benifiets and protection of your job through the grievence procedure of being union. This is the selling point of being union. I am not saying once your in the union your on easy street. You still have to be a safe productive hand. If you are not, you will be dealt with by both the brothers and the local. On the non union side you be an ace lineman, stand up to the foreman or GF over an issue and find yourself unemployed because you put a hair across his ass. At least on the union side you have a way of grievance on the matter. I am proud to be a lineman. I respect the views and the brotherhood of lineman, union or not. I just think it would be a better world if we were all union to enjoy better work conditions, some job protection, fair representation at the bargining table, financial and health and welafare benifiets. If we are one and solid as members standing up for one another we are a force to be reckond with. We are one of the few trades that if we ever on strike nation wide it would be felt within days accross the nation.

This sounds good.



The utilties would be on their knees begging. Lets face it, the utilities screwed their own people so they make a higher return for the shareholders. Being a contractor I do not come onto your property with the sole purpose of taking your job, your employer sold you out, not the union. Enough of my long winded story. The bottom line having been on both sides, I prefer the union.

Whew! Tell us how you really feel Stinger! :D Although I understand the frustration, and I can see it on both sides (const. and utility--btw, I had another thread a few years back on THAT topic alone), that's just it... There are so many different issues that linemen alone seem to have and it's not only the Union vs. Non-Union. And until all these "issues" are solved, how are you going to unite?

In the opinion of you all, and I'd like to hear from ALL sides, where would you start in solving this? Would making all companies across the states (even the world) Union make the other issues go away?

When I visualize a world powerlineman union company(or even here in the America), I see many powerful and political parties (big dawgs) pulling their power wagons and all puffed up ruling over you and making the big big bucks! And they have yet to climb a power pole, crawl underground, hang from a helicopter, calculate surveys--labor/equipment costs, run a crew(s), work in dangerous conditions due to hurricanes, tornados, heavy snow/ice/rain for many hours and days........and yet....THEY tell you all how to do it, when to do it, and how much to take it and do it with.

If I am wrong, then tell me how you all will see it. I'd honestly like to know what the solution would be.

[wudwoker51]

If you can look down a 1 in. conduit with both eyes you are a narrowback!

[loadbreak55]

:rolleyes: Although there is a board for this discussion,I'll go ahead and reply here.I started out non-union 37 yrs. ago and although the people I worked with were,for the most part,very professional,well trained,and very saftey consious;the company was only interested in profit and the people running the crew's were only intrested in production.In the 6 yrs. there,I can remember ZERO saftey meetings,and plenty of pledgerism.If you weren't a relative or a close friend of someone in a position of "power",you had practilly no chance of being promoted to anything more than a "lead lineman"!Since testing out and joining a union, I can honestly say that(in my humble oppinion)Union is the only way to go!:)

[LostArt]

:rolleyes: Although there is a board for this discussion,I'll go ahead and reply here.

Board? Oh, you mean another "forum"? I suppose you mean the Union Issues ? Well, I kinda wanted all "linemen" to read this.

Of course I'm being a smartbutt. Who here isn't??? Union or non-union. :D

(Please note I didn't roll my eyes)

I appreciate all the posts here. And the fact that you all were honest with your opinions, no matter what side. Thanks again guys for letting me butt in for a bit with some questions. And yes, I still read pretty much all of the threads here from time to time. But, it's very rare that I read the Union Issues forum. And that is just because it doesn't affect me.......yet. ;)