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jack7474
04-30-2007, 10:44 PM
i just found out that one of my friends died today in the puget sound area. i knew him for quite some time and we were really good friends. i don't have any information on the accident but if anybody out there knows what happened, please post a thread.

WAlinehand1970
04-30-2007, 11:20 PM
We heard about the accident this afternoon. We are hearing ALOT of rumors right now, so I dont want to report anything until we know facts.
What we do know right now is; that a fifth step apprentice lineman, working for Potelco in Kitsap County, WA, was killed this morning.

topgroove
05-01-2007, 09:36 AM
I read on another site the digger might have become energized and he made contact with the truck.

lager
05-01-2007, 06:27 PM
I'm not sure if this is the accident you are talking about, but try this link:

http://www.kitsapsun.com/bsun/home/article/0,2403,BSUN_19081_5515152,00.html

jack7474
05-01-2007, 09:25 PM
thanks for that link. i already know who it is because he's my buddy. i'm waiting for some facts on the accident so i can know what really happened. all i know is that he was touching the line truck and the boom or some part of the truck made contact with a primary line.

PA BEN
05-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Did He work for Potelco? This is bad, I can't say how much it saddens me to hear we lost another apprentice. :(

jack7474
05-01-2007, 09:55 PM
yes he worked for potelco. he was a smart kid, and just became a hot apprentice. the story that the crew is telling is that the line truck was parked close to a metal building, and that the apprentice was walking between the truck and building when he tripped on something. he caught himself with the truck and building and the boom was in contact with a primary line. you know what happens with a hand to hand contact. truck grounding?

77liner
05-02-2007, 02:31 AM
Pa Ben
You dont have any of the info on the ug fatality correct except the part about the cable # being wrong.
The problem once again is these apprentices are being used for production.
Killing apprentices has got to stop now and the ones that can stop it are the journeymen.

duckhunter
05-02-2007, 10:40 AM
Anyone know if this truck was grounded?

I agree with 77 that the journeymen need to do a better job with these apprentices, however, they need to perform all the work as apprentices that they can be safely exposed to. OJT with good journeymen is the best safety training we can give these young men and women. Sitting in safety meetings, hearing all the right things to do; and then working with a junk lineman that short-cuts is worthless.

BigClive
05-02-2007, 04:49 PM
This sounds like another of these instances where someone falls (possibly while running in panic) and their hands contact the voltage gradient on the ground passing current through their body.

If it is then a defibrillator could possibly have been a life saver again!

OSHA should make it a legal requirement that all line crews carry these AED units!

Genoin NW
05-02-2007, 10:04 PM
Where was the forman? Where was the "training" journeyman? Where is the safety watch? Where is the cover? Where are the safety rules?
Where are the brains? Come on guys!!!! Wake the hell up! Our brothers are dying out there! I bet the lawyers will take notice! For Gods sake let's start learning from these deaths.



My prayers to his family...

PA BEN
05-03-2007, 01:03 AM
You'd think a payed safety rep. would get it right. I just got a PM from a new member who knows the job but he said he can't post yet because he's new. He'll post the story when he can, he also said that the lineman on the job might not come back to work again:( They were spoting the truck to set a pole when the contact was made, he tuched the truck and the building at the sametime so he said.

jack7474
05-03-2007, 02:59 PM
i'm just wondering why the truck wasn't grounded if the primary was sagging low and they were in close proximity to it. i read a article at a local papers website, and potelco wouldn't even formally acknowledge my friend as an employee until the investigation was over or something stupid like that. i also agree with the other fellow that the aed's should be with every line crew out in the field. if the company's are going to talk so much shit about safety, then they should buck up and give us what we need. how much was my friends life worth?

topgroove
05-03-2007, 03:28 PM
Jack... What was the name of your friend? and to answer your question, of cource the truck was not properly grounded otherwise he would have been at the same potential of the truck.
The company at this point is running damage controll. At this point they know what each and every member of the crew had for breakfast that day. They know every safety rule that was broken that day and there main focus at this point it to divert liability. If you are truely his friend you will contact Rusty from SAC immediatly so he can help your friends family.


If you need help!
Sorry to here of your loss! My name is Rusty White I started an organization 2 years ago to assist the families of our fallen Brothers. It is called S.A.C. If you will go to www.powerlineman.com and click on the oval with S.A.C. in it , it will take you to my site! Or e-mail me at rustywhite20@hotmail.com, we now cover all the US and Canada, We have the ability to send investigators ANYWHERE to look at the case, and if we feel we can not be of any help, we eat all the cost! S.A.C. Rusty White rustywhite20@hotmail.com 817-253-1358

wudwlkr
05-04-2007, 07:11 AM
... and to answer your question, of cource the truck was not properly grounded otherwise he would have been at the same potential of the truck.

For the umpteenth time, grounding the truck will not protect the worker on the ground who touches a truck that has become energized. Grounding a truck only makes sure there is a low impedance path for fault current to flow back to the source so the protective equipment will see enough current flow to cause them to operate. Becasue of the length of cables used for truck grounding there will still be enough difference in potential between the truck and the ground around it to be hazardous. The ONLY way to stay safe is to never touch a truck when the boom is elevated around energized lines or equipment.

You touch a truck, whether it is grounded or not, you WILL BE at the same potential as the truck. If you are touching something else at a different potential than the truck at the same time, say the earth or a metal building, then that difference in potential is going to cause current to flow across you.
Either get on the truck and stay on it or stay away from it.

thrasher
05-04-2007, 07:56 AM
I haven't actually heard what happened? Was it a case of setting a pole in an energized line, hanging a trans, or what? From the comments I assume the victim was touching the truck body when the boom became energized.

PA BEN
05-04-2007, 08:19 AM
I haven't actually heard what happened? Was it a case of setting a pole in an energized line, hanging a trans, or what? From the comments I assume the victim was touching the truck body when the boom became energized.

I talked to an apprentice who's brother works for Potelco, he said that he touched a metal building and the truck at the same time.
If you ground your truck you have to do all of [iii],[A],[B],[C] and [D]

WAC 296-45-375

(10) Operations near energized lines or equipment.

(a) Mechanical equipment shall be operated so that the minimum approach distances of Table 1 through Table 4 are maintained from exposed energized lines and equipment. However, the insulated upper portion excluding the basket/bucket of an aerial lift operated by a qualified employee in the lift is exempt from this requirement.

(b) A designated employee other than the equipment operator shall observe the approach distance to exposed lines and equipment and give timely warnings before the minimum approach distance required by subsection (10)(a) of this section is reached, unless the employer can demonstrate that the operator can accurately determine that the minimum approach distance is being maintained.

(c) If, during operation of the mechanical equipment, the equipment could become energized, the operation shall also comply with at least one of the following:

(i) The energized lines exposed to contact shall be covered with insulating protective material that will withstand the type of contact that might be made during the operation.

(ii) The equipment shall be insulated for the voltage involved. The equipment shall be positioned so that its uninsulated portions cannot approach the lines or equipment any closer than the minimum approach distances specified in Table 1 through 4.

(iii) Each employee shall be protected from hazards that might arise from equipment contact with the energized lines. The measures used shall ensure that employees will not be exposed to hazardous differences in potential. Unless the employer can demonstrate that the methods in use protect each employee from the hazards that might arise if the equipment contacts the energized line, the measures used shall include all of the following techniques:

(A) Using the best available ground to minimize the time the lines remain energized;

(B) Bonding equipment together to minimize potential differences;

(C) Providing ground mats to extend areas of equipotential; and

(D) Employing insulating protective equipment or barricades to guard against any remaining hazardous potential differences.

topgroove
05-04-2007, 09:50 AM
For the umpteenth time, grounding the truck will not protect the worker on the ground who touches a truck that has become energized. Grounding a truck only makes sure there is a low impedance path for fault current to flow back to the source so the protective equipment will see enough current flow to cause them to operate. Becasue of the length of cables used for truck grounding there will still be enough difference in potential between the truck and the ground around it to be hazardous. The ONLY way to stay safe is to never touch a truck when the boom is elevated around energized lines or equipment.

You touch a truck, whether it is grounded or not, you WILL BE at the same potential as the truck. If you are touching something else at a different potential than the truck at the same time, say the earth or a metal building, then that difference in potential is going to cause current to flow across you.
Either get on the truck and stay on it or stay away from it.Very true and good point. If this person was in a equipotential zone he would have survived. That would mean everything the victime could touch or stand on would have to be at the same potential. What little we know of this accident is that the truck was near a metal building. what would it take to create an equipotential zone at the workzone here. You would need grounding matts. you would have bond the truck, the building and the ground matts together . you would use driven ground rods and also connect to the common neutral. was any attempt made in this case to create a zone of equalized potential? Who's responcibility is it to create a safe work site? I would have to say its the crews responcibility to eliminate the hidden dangers. We're these hidden dangers dangers disscused in a tailboard. was there any talk of coverup, rubber gloves, or EH rated boots or over shoes talked about?

WAlinehand1970
05-04-2007, 11:08 AM
I haven't actually heard what happened? Was it a case of setting a pole in an energized line, hanging a trans, or what? From the comments I assume the victim was touching the truck body when the boom became energized.

I have heard about seven different stories about what they were doing, and what the apprentice touched.
They were either spotting or setting a pole, and the boom or the pole made contact. The apprentice, on the ground, touched the pole or the truck or a nearby metal building, or a combination of the three?
We dont know if the pole grabbers were on thee second stage, or on the fiber?
We dont know if the apprentice was wearing his gloves, and made contact with a different part of his body?
Lots of questions. Lots of rumors.
I dont know if an AED would have helped, but I think Clive is right about having the training and having them on the truck.

topgroove
05-04-2007, 11:24 AM
WA ... If a zone of equalized potential was created at this location to protect the workers on the ground do you think it could have prevented this tradgedy?

Bull Dog
05-04-2007, 12:09 PM
The truck dosen't have to be grounded to be legal. Its up to the company to decide how they want to handle this. Either way if you touch the truck when the boom is in the primary your dead most likely. I always told my help to look up before you get anything out of the truck. Otherwise the safest place to be is 15ft away with both hands in your pockets. Depends on what type of truck and were the primary contacts the boom. It could be safe or not but why take a chance? Many times line man have been blown to hell touching the truck. Think of a car with a wire on it same thing. Line work 101 don't touch the truck without rubber gloves even when the boom is clear and near the primary zone. It may look clear but just when you touch the truck someone may move the boom and that might be bad. To many apps getthing killed There is a problem with the companys and they need to be held accountable for there resposability in these accidents. Lots of questions here why was the boom in the primary in the first place...was the man operating qualified many other things could be asked.

PA BEN
05-04-2007, 08:41 PM
Dog Nut
Junior Member Join Date: May 2007
Location: Potelcoville (WA state)
Posts: 0

The story

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Ben.

I still can't post. If there is anyway you can copy this and/or relay it I would appreciate it. Here is the story as I have heard it from a reliable source.

The man operating is an excellent foreman. 30+ years in the trade. The lineman is also a very good hand. Both had an excellent safety record. The app put the chain on the pole and walked around the front of the truck. the lineman had the pole top. They were spotting the pole so they could reposition the boom over the top of the phone lines. In the process of spotting the pole, the boom contacted the primary (Delta, grounded in the sub.) at this exact instance the app jumped between the metal building and the truck, touching both. From what I was told the contact was for under a second. It was a phone pole to be set behind the primary. the primary was 25' off of the ground. They were not in a hurry being the last task of the day and it was only 11:00 am.

homebrew
05-05-2007, 01:54 AM
LINK TO ACCURATE INFO [url]www.ibew.77.com

CHICAGO HAND.
05-05-2007, 07:25 AM
http://www.ibew77.com

TRY THIS LINK

Bull Dog
05-05-2007, 01:23 PM
What the hell this is bs should have never happened where was the cover. Some don't respect these voltages enough. I can not see how there is no cover. Another waisted young life. I know people will say it was his time. I don't agree. Lets get our heads out of our butts. We need to protect these young men. Its our job! My symathies with the family. Thanks for posting chi hand.

PK270
05-06-2007, 07:53 PM
Nearly every accident we hear about the term "very good lineman" is used. I do not know these men so I will not pass judgement. I understand the grounding but what about the cover. Apes should be required to wear rubber overshoes, there are so many mistakes that can be made by an ape that could be missed in training.

There is always some one that wants to blame production, this job could have been done in a productive manner while covering the shit out of the primary. No amount of production will be able to cover the cost of this accident. To the company or the family.

May God be with this family.

racinsprintz10
05-07-2007, 11:06 AM
just kind of wondering, how many men was the crew running?

WAlinehand1970
05-10-2007, 07:06 PM
just kind of wondering, how many men was the crew running?

It was a 3 man crew.

woody
05-15-2007, 12:10 AM
POST: Hope all apprentices that work anywhere in the northwest ; know...SAFE WORK PRACTICES...KNOW WAC CODES AND LAWS...AND WHEN THEY APPLY. BETTER BE ON TOP OF YOUR GAME! No different when I came up! woody

woody
05-15-2007, 12:12 AM
p.s. wrong place...my condolances to the family. woody