Women in Linework

[scammy]

its not the language ,,or the enviornment,,it the task at hand,women are not made for it ,,you see women fireman and cops ,and soldiers ,,speicial acommodations are made for them (ie) army female soldiers do half push ups and sit ups ,,only to be left behind when the unit deploys to combat,,leaving the unit short handed,,linework on the other hand is every man has to prove himself ,,he has to do the work and install in his coworkers that he can do poletop resque if they need him to ,,you know and I know that when it gets down to the wire ,the bullshit ends ,and the real facts come into play,thats what seperates the men from the boys ,,,,,,,,and the women ,,,scammy

[RWD]

Two in particular that stand out. One was confident and and about herself and really had nothing to prove to anyone but herself. She was good. I hope she stayed in the business. Another was also good but ... she had a world of things to prove. She was not a girl to take home to mama. She'd squat and pee in front of the guys and cuss it up with us all. She was a bit on the small side but I've clumb with a few men on the small side too. He problem was she was not part of a team. If a small guy needed help he'd ask ... She would not. She felt it would show she was not as good as a man. I guess there are men who would take it that way but I don't physical size does not make a linehand. Nor as this board is proof positive, Do Brains make a linehand. He bigest failing was she tried harder than anyone I know to do a 6' mans job and she stood 5'6" and weighed 99 lbs wet. (wrong kind of wet Swamp) Get your mind outta the gutter.

If a man was her size they'd be assisted and know thier limits. She pushed them. Have to give her credit. She was good. Both at climbing and looking. Awsome clipper but she could not push a hoist to sag on a 4/0 line.

TTFN

BTW looks like another trip is close at hand.

RWD

[harley]

If you decide on this trade, these would be my suggestions:
1. Pay attention, learn the material and the job
2. Ask questions and learn from the answers
3.Know the differance from I think - I know (the first will get you hurt or killed the second will help you your entire career)
4. Learn to work smarter not harder
5. Attitude can go along ways

Having trained many new hands I know that anyone can be taught anything if they have the desire.

A lineman's skill is not based on size but on the knowledge of the job.
Some of the best linemen I have seen were small guys, what they lacked in size they made up for with their rigging skills.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[LostArt]

Hey! I only left for a few days Swamp. I can't help it if you are always doing this kind of thing! :D Butterbean, what kinda beer do you like????? Heh. Oh man. You kill me Swamp, you really do. :D

We have had one of these threads before Bean, but I don't think we have had many women actually posting that they are going to go into this line of work though. At least not here. I think I started a post about this many moons ago actually.

I don't know, it might be a generation thing. I know alot has been blamed on the women of the 60's around here. And before I'm marked as one of those women, I wasn't quite of the age to start riots back then. ;)

I think in any workforce where women have rarely troded or were considered to have muscles, have been open to much scrutiny. The biggest one seems to be our military.

I say go for it Bean. How will you ever know if you don't even try? If it's something you really want to do, go for it!

I'm like Swamp though, why would you want to? How long have you wanted to go into this field? What gave you the incentative to even get into this area of work?

[shaun]

Hey guys, off topic sort of, but what happened to the rest of this thread? It starts off on another page with no option of going to the beginning?? I log in, click on this thread, and see this,


Yesterday, 08:35 PM
Swamprat
Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,452

Women in Linework

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by butterbean
nope alan that's not me! i thought it was hilarious! the fact that she is still on her cell phone is just too much!!
Trust me Ms. Bean, with a 28 year old daughter, and MY Wife...I am definately "Pro Women", and I mean that Seriously.
That's not cause they brow beat me that way, I just believe in "Equal Pay, for Equal Work." Man or Woman.

That said,
I'll also have to say this. I worked with a woman Lineman once...for a couple months, Not a bad lineman/Lineperson, whatever they have to, or want to be called... anyway, she weren't bad. But, she "didn't fit", sorry.

I don't give a shit how much we're suppose to be all "Equal and shit", when a woman comes into an environment like Linework, It's gonna be a "tough road" for a woman. I'm not gonna get into anything about physical work, but here's the deal....

We really can't even talk about any type of comparison with Women. I mean....WHAT is a...generally speaking "Women's Trade"?
Throw 1 or 2 men into it. Ya get my drift? Why the hell would a Man EVEN WANT to do that?

I don't care how good ya are as a woman in Linework, it ain't never gonna be good enough for the men ya work with, and while they'll talk all "nice" to ya, ya don't EVEN want to hear what's said when you're not around.

That's why it's called the "Brotherhood", not the "Brothers and Sister" hood.

Sorry, just my personal Opinion, bein "Honest", by what I've experienced in Linework.
Hell, If you're a half assed Lineman, in this trade, you're gonna have enough problems! If you're a piece of shit grunt....you won't last a week. And I'm talkin bout a man.

Well....maby if you're union,...
It's real hard to get rid of "sorry assed shit" when you're in the union.




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It has two options on Swamps post to quote and another edit button as well??

Am I missing something?

[LostArt]

Hey guys, off topic sort of, but what happened to the rest of this thread? It starts off on another page with no option of going to the beginning?? I log in, click on this thread, and see this,

It has two options on Swamps post to quote and another edit button as well??

Am I missing something?

Shaun, this topic started in the "Funniest Pics" thread. All Swamp did was start another thread and posted what Butterbean had replied to and what he had replied back to her.

I could have merged the posts and started the thread, but you all caught me sleeping on the job! :D

If Swamp doesn't mind, I'll kinda pretty it up a bit. :D

[shaun]

I don't really follow ya Shaun....
I thought the message I posted as the first message in this new thread was were I made my first comment to butterbean.....
I don't follow ya....

I Gotcha Swamp. LA sorted it out for me. I was almost certain I read about her asking a question but mixed up the threads. My fault. Thanks LA.

There was still the two quote options and an edit option on your post which had me wondering too. :confused:

["little beaver"]

[QUOTE=Swamprat;33503]An Honest Man.

Thanks Clive.

Did ya notice no AMERICAN Lineman have posted a REAL comment yet?:p

This is a real Nasty subject to address.....
No matter what ya say, you're probably gonna "step in shit"...least here in America.

Why even talk about it any more....
"Ms butterbean" hasen't come back to interact at all.

"Just let me put it this way....a man workin as a Lineman on a Linecrew is "Use" to workin around generally all Men.

Language, crude behavior at times, grab assin, talkin about women, wives, sports, and possibly the occasional physical confrontation.....is generally the "norm". Put a woman on a Linecrew, and I'm sorry, but the whole atmosphere does a complete change.

A woman on a Linecrew, automatically put's a "scare" factor into every man on the crew, and that's damn fact. Sorry....It's the "Times" I guess partially.

"Scared" to possibly say something "offending", Scared to be charged or accused of "sexual harrasment", Scared of basically sayin anything when the woman is around.....just "cause", something might be taken out of contex.

Like I said, "We're all equal nowdays", so if you want to become a Journeyman Lineman, please...go right ahead.

I'm just bein honest with MY opinion, and the Opinion of most of the linemen I've ever worked with. The "Scare" factor is always there when a woman is on a Linecrew. I don't give a shit how "Cool" the woman is, and how she's "one of the Boys................."

There wasn't much for me to say after the above 'cause I agreed with every word of it!!

[Orgnizdlbr]

[quote=Swamprat;33503]An Honest Man.

Thanks Clive.

Did ya notice no AMERICAN Lineman have posted a REAL comment yet?:p

This is a real Nasty subject to address.....
No matter what ya say, you're probably gonna "step in shit"...least here in America.

Why even talk about it any more....
"Ms butterbean" hasen't come back to interact at all.

"Just let me put it this way....a man workin as a Lineman on a Linecrew is "Use" to workin around generally all Men.

Language, crude behavior at times, grab assin, talkin about women, wives, sports, and possibly the occasional physical confrontation.....is generally the "norm". Put a woman on a Linecrew, and I'm sorry, but the whole atmosphere does a complete change.

A woman on a Linecrew, automatically put's a "scare" factor into every man on the crew, and that's damn fact. Sorry....It's the "Times" I guess partially.

"Scared" to possibly say something "offending", Scared to be charged or accused of "sexual harrasment", Scared of basically sayin anything when the woman is around.....just "cause", something might be taken out of contex.

Like I said, "We're all equal nowdays", so if you want to become a Journeyman Lineman, please...go right ahead.

I'm just bein honest with MY opinion, and the Opinion of most of the linemen I've ever worked with. The "Scare" factor is always there when a woman is on a Linecrew. I don't give a shit how "Cool" the woman is, and how she's "one of the Boys................."

There wasn't much for me to say after the above 'cause I agreed with every word of it!!

Well, I'll share my experience of working with women on line crews, worked with 2 at different times, both pulled their wieght, both would tell you to f&(k yourself in a heart beat, never once was I "fraidy scared" to speak my mind or"fraidy scared" to slip in front of these women.

[LostArt]

Well, I'll share my experience of working with women on line crews, worked with 2 at different times, both pulled their wieght, both would tell you to f&(k yourself in a heart beat, never once was I "fraidy scared" to speak my mind or"fraidy scared" to slip in front of these women.

So, they both worked out?

What were they like? I know! But, I'm just curious! :D

[Orgnizdlbr]

So, they both worked out?

What were they like? I know! But, I'm just curious! :D

They were like um womenhttp://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon12.gif


Both worked out, one is now a crew leader.

[LostArt]

That wasn't any help Georgie!!! :( For someone that ain't "fraidy" sure knew when to zip it up. LOL!

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I call bullshit Georgie!

[LostArt]

Oh man! She's hawt!!! :D

[loodvig]

I've been watching this thread for some time now. So now I'll tell you about this woman we had in the line dept. She was a meter reader and bid into the overhead dept. As an app. she stated that there was no women supervisors! She couldn't pass the 3rd class test but they made her 2nd class anyway. No one wanted to cross this woman! She tried to pass the 2nd class test twice and didn't make it. Yup, you guessed it, she is now 1st class lineman! She can barely climb. When it's her turn to climb she has 'cramps', 'needs to use the potty', or 'make some phone calls'. She can't fill shifts because she has 2 kids. Others have to take her shifts. If and when she does fill a trouble shift she calls for help every time. When there was a ice storm in up state N.Y. she went for 2 weeks! The 2 kids were on thier own I guess! Katrina hit and she went south for 3 more weeks. I can go on and on but you get the picture!

[LostArt]

I've been watching this thread for some time now. So now I'll tell you about this woman we had in the line dept. She was a meter reader and bid into the overhead dept. As an app. she stated that there was no women supervisors! She couldn't pass the 3rd class test but they made her 2nd class anyway. No one wanted to cross this woman! She tried to pass the 2nd class test twice and didn't make it. Yup, you guessed it, she is now 1st class lineman! She can barely climb. When it's her turn to climb she has 'cramps', 'needs to use the potty', or 'make some phone calls'. She can't fill shifts because she has 2 kids. Others have to take her shifts. If and when she does fill a trouble shift she calls for help every time. When there was a ice storm in up state N.Y. she went for 2 weeks! The 2 kids were on thier own I guess! Katrina hit and she went south for 3 more weeks. I can go on and on but you get the picture!

I hate it when people pull that minority crap and can't live up to the job at hand. And I don't mean just women Loo! You know good and well there are many that aren't qualified but still get pushed through because of some sort of discrimination. The bottomline is you are either qualified or you aren't. It's that simple but yet..........

Oh let me hush!! For pete's sake, I ain't saying nothing that ain't been said before.

[loodvig]

Well LA your right! And Swamp will like this one. Most of the time it's in a union shop! In a union shop you are promoted by time in grade not for your skills and hard work. Don't get me wrong as I've been union my whole life. But I've seen my share of assholes get promoted. It's a sad fact of life!

[loodvig]

No Lood. I Don't "Liike" that one....at all.

What I meant by 'like it' is I knew you'd respond to my post.

[Koga]

2 we had here were the exception. Like I said 2 came through that should have stayed at home in barefeet and raised the kids. Couldn't cut and were told find another job. But the 2 that did make it, carried thier weight. Ive seen both of em on the pole in hooks tell some men either do something or get the F%^k out the way. As far as the BS'n, for the most part you could say pretty much what was on your mind.They certainly would. And could embaress a sailor. Granted everyone at first was a little reserved untill you got to work with em a bit . Then it was on. While they no longer work for us, when they did I really didn't see any problems with em. And yes we are an IBEW shop. Not all are the same. I do understand Swamps points and I agree on alot of it but I have to give these 2 credit. Just the way it was.

Koga

[thrasher]

Swamp:
The article you were quoting from was the hourly COST of the worker, not his hourly WAGE. I know that at our company if you add the company's share of health insurance, retirement, workman's compensation, life insurance, social security and all the hourly based taxes then for every dollar of pay there is another $1.10 of benefits/costs. So the lineman that makes a wage of $26.15 an hour costs the company $54.92 per hour. Not argueing right or wrong but thats the way it is. Even the contractors that we hire on occasion, who have minimal benefits, figure an extra 75 cents per dollar for overhead.

[Little]

I have been reading these forums, on and off for several years, and I've figured it's finally time to contribute something. I have always had the good sense to read the safety and linework forums, since that is where my interest lies and goodness knows I get enough 'BS' in the real world without searching it out online. However, seeing a topic 'Women in Linework', I couldn't resist.

I am surprised to see such a prevalence on negative opinion, most based on stereotyping, very limited experience, and general bullheadedness (a common attribute in linemen, I know).

The only argument against women in linework I have seen on this thread that even deserves serious thought is that of physical capability. As all of you who've worked in the trade for a while can attest, there are apprentices who come into the trade every season that are incapable of the work. Do some of them get washed out? Do some work hard and develop the fitness needed for the job? We've all seen some who've gone through the apprenticeship, never quite up to par, and become substandard lineman because of social or family ties that keep them immune from the standards that would wash others out.

Why would women be any different? If a woman is incapable of the work, she will wash out. If she is capable of the work, plus putting up, on a daily basis, with the piss poor sexist attitudes of her would be teachers, she will succeed.

If we are to judge an entire sex on a few bad examples, then there would certainly be no men in linework, either. The number of worthless, lazy, dumb, otherwise subpar journeymen out there is enormous. A woman so dedicated to the trade as to put up with 8000 hours of hard work, hard judgement from her peers and superiors, and general resistance, has definitely earned the right to work next to her brothers on the line.

One particular comment I saw regarding hurtman rescue tickled me. If your uncomfortable with the woman on the ground being able to perform a rescue, after passing an apprenticeship rife with training and testing, well sir, you can let your unconscious, incapacitated self down from that pole: she'll be waiting for ya on the ground.

[LostArt]

In a New York, Fuc$in minute.....

So,
Where the hell's "butterbean"?

She was sorta like, a "Fart in the Breeze", huh....

She's baaaaaaaaaaaaack! :D

[butterbean]

She's baaaaaaaaaaaaack! :D


hahaha! i see good news travels fast around here! ~wink~


i have been dealing with a death in the family and been working on getting through my tradeswomen program. trying to find info on lineman training/schools/colleges. i love the idea of it. it will give the opportunity to do the job before the job and maybe not look as dumb as i would without it. but i wasn't expecting this additional financial roadblock. but i will figure it out.


i appreciate all of your input and that swamprat started this thread in the first place. i had a thread posted in the apprentice forum and rat and i started discussing women in the trade in the picture thread. thanks rat, for bringing more opinions in.

i (of course) agree with little. most of the issues are pretty much things that would go along with any career/job/life. but the physical strength issue is valid. women are built differently, that is just nature. but there must be men who have fallen out due to it being just too physically demanding. some people really just don't want to work hard. what? me? break a sweat? go home with sore aching muscles? i can barely walk the next day! wahhh! cry me a river.
that is part of what draws me to this line of work. being strong. being tough. doing what has to be done, period.

how many men fall out? what is a rough percentage?


bean